(upbeat music) - Hey everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you a little bit more about one of our favorite things ever, audible. - Oh, audible.com or that app. - The app is great in a mommy app, constantly listening to audible helps your imagination soar. Whether you listen to stories, motivation, expert advice, any genre really that you like, you can listen to and you can be inspired to imagine new worlds, new possibilities, even new ways of thinking. This can unlock a lot for you. Audible makes it easy to be inspired and entertained as part of your daily routine. You don't need to even set extra time aside. That's what's great. There's more to imagine when you listen. And I'll tell you something that has set both Jimmy and I's imagination soaring and that is the Lewis and Clark journals. We're both really into these right now. - Unbelievable. - And as an audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog including the latest bestsellers, the newest releases. New members can try audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com/smalltownmurder or text smalltownmurder to 500, 500. That's audible.com/smalltownmurder or text smalltownmurder to 500, 500. Now back to the show. Hey everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show and tell you about a really great way to watch all of your favorite shows and everything like that. And that is Fylo. Fylo has done the impossible and changed all that. One service, all the stuff you need right there. Fylos got current seasons of the shows. I can't miss and we can't miss on networks like A&E, MTV, Discovery, TLC, classics like The Office, Martin and Friends that people just, you don't get sick of it. And all of the incredible originals on AMC+ from Mad Men to Orphan Black. Don't forget about their library of more than 75,000 movies and shows, all of which you can watch and you can save and re-watch anytime for a whole year. Never miss a minute of shows like Crimes Gone Viral, Fatal Attraction, Catfish, Friends and many more. Best of all, with Fylo, you get all this for just $28 a month. No contracts, no hassles, just one subscription and a world of entertainment. So go to Fylo.tv/SmallTownMurder and check it out for a free seven-day trial. That's Fylo, P-H-I-L-O.TV/SmallTownMurder to start watching. Now back to the show. - Hey, Prime Members. Have you heard? You can listen to your favorite podcasts at free. Good news. With Amazon Music, you have access to the largest catalog of ad-free top podcasts included with your Prime Membership. To start listening, download the Amazon Music App for free or go to amazon.com/adfreepodcast. That's amazon.com/adfreepodcast to catch up on the latest episodes, without the ads. - This week in Agawa, Massachusetts, a creepy music box from 20 years earlier and a very strange letter of confession leads to the solving of the murder of a young woman who vanished into thin air. Welcome to SmallTown Murder. [upbeat music] - Hello, everybody, and welcome back to SmallTown Murder. - Yay! - Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigal, I'm here with my co-host. - I'm Jimmy Wissman. - Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another wild edition of SmallTown Murder, and we do, this is a wild, crazy, who would have ever thought this is the way you solve a crime in insane episode of SmallTown Murder, as all of them seem to be, but again, it's wild again this week. I can't say, well, this one's not crazy, 'cause it is, sorry, we're not mean to argue. I'm trying. - We're really getting an eye-tantique that is involved, that's fun. - It's fun, oh, this is a, it's really creepy and weird, so before we get to all that, head over to shutupandgivememurder.com, get your tickets to live shows, September 20th, Minneapolis, Minnesota, you are up next, the Big Beautiful State Theater, and if you sell this out, it's gonna be our biggest show ever. So we're just really excited, and we'd love to be able to tell everybody, our biggest show ever was in Minneapolis, 'cause you guys have been so good to us over the years, and thank you for doing that. The next night we're at the PAPs, but I think that's sold out now, or there's like a couple more singles, maybe left or something like that. Get all your tickets, because I'm telling you, they're selling out. - I can't wait to get back on the road. - I know, I can't either, I really can't. It's gonna be a lot of fun. We have a few shows here in the fall and we're jacked for 'em. So shut up and givememurder.com, get out there. Kansas City, we added more tickets there, too. Austin, Boston, New York, they're going fast. Oklahoma City, Oklahoma City, I think, is about sold out, too, so nevermind that one. I think that one's done, too. - Is it Oklahoma City, that's all? - I think so, check it out, though. Shut up and give me murder.com. - They're on the website, yeah. - We'll tell you all of that stuff here. Also, listen to our two other shows, Crime in Sports and Your Stupid Opinions. If you haven't been listening, holy hell is your stupid opinion's been crazy. And Crime in Sports. We just did some very fun old-timey crime-filled stuff on that, so check that out. And if you can't get enough of us, patreon.com/crimeinsports is where you get all of the bonus material and we got a ton of it. If you have $5 a month or above a mere cup of coffee, you are going to get hundreds of episodes of back bonus stuff you've never heard. And new ones every other week. One Crime in Sports, one small-town murder, and you're going to get it all, baby. - All of it. - All of it. And this week, which you're going to get, for Crime in Sports, we're going to talk about, this will be a fun one. The most inept teams of all time, of all different sports, biggest losers. - Absolute failures. - It's just going to be a failure fest, which is so much fun. We can't wait for that. Lots of stuff to laugh at. And for small-town murder, we're going to go over some of this Lori Vallow Chad Daybell mess. - It's a, oh boy, is that deep. - Too much to cover in one bonus episode, obviously, we could do like a 10-part series on those people, but we're going to go over some of the more disgusting shit. Some of the weirder stuff and some connections we may have had to it because her brother was a comic in Phoenix and so are we. So. - At the same place. - At the same places we've performed at and everything else, so we'll talk all about that. patreon.com/crimeinsports and you get a shout-out at the end of the episode. - Oh, you bet, man. - Dude, he's going to mispronounce your name. We're going to thank you from the top of the rooftops or the end of the show, whichever comes first. - And the bottom of our heart. - And the bottom of our heart. That said, disclaimer time. This is a comedy show, everybody. It's a comedy show. The stories are scarily and definitely real. That's the sad part. We wish we could make up stories like this and just have them be funny, but these are crazy stories. We are going to have jokes involved. Here's what happens though. They don't involve the victims or the victims' families. Yes, because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. So if that sounds good to you, you're going to hear a wild story with some funny stuff thrown in here. There's plenty to make fun of. There's nothing funny about actually killing somebody, but there's a lot of fun to make fun of a murder. I got to say, it doesn't get any better than that. We have no other recourse. So that sounds good to you. You're going to hear a fun story, a sick and fun story. If you think that true crime and comedy never ever should go together then, I don't know, you might not like us, but you might. So stick around, check it out. No bitchin' later. That said, I think it's time, everybody. All right. It's time to sit back. I don't care where you are. Let's all clear the lungs and let's all shout. ♪ Shut up and give me murder ♪ Let's do this, everybody. That feels good. Let's go on a trip, shall we? All right. All right, let's do this. We're going to Agawam, Massachusetts. Well, where in the shit is that? Agawam is in kind of southern, it's right near the Connecticut border on the south in like Western Massachusetts. Oh, wow. So yeah, not too far from there. Yeah, yeah, we're not usually over there. It's usually over by Boston somewhere or even in like Northwestern, Massachusetts, a lot we've had, but not a lot in this area here. It's about 10 minutes to Springfield. So it's right outside Springfield. That's that it's an hour 40 to Boston from here. So, I mean, if you're adventurous, still commutable. And then about an hour and a half to Ash Burnham, which was our last Massachusetts episode, the old flame in the dominatrix. That one. Is that right? Yes, it was. It was our last one over there. I just found a place up there. I remember. Kind of, I didn't realize. Yes, that must have been stuck in your head to see what happens. The old flame in the dominatrix. This is in Hampton County and area code 413. A little bit of history here. A little bit of the town stuff. And we'll get to this wild-ass story. So this is hilarious. The original purchase of this land, okay? This is what it was bought for from the tribe that originally had this land. 10 coats, like coats and jackets. This is what they purchased it for? This is the purchase price of this town site. 10 coats, 10 hose. And they mean the implement. The gardening tool. Yeah, they didn't just like, I'll give you 10 of my hose. My best hose. Ladies and the car, let's go. No. You're going with the man. You're going with the chief here. That's it. No, that's not how it works. 10 hatchets, 10 knives and 10 fathoms of wampum. What is that? I think it's the... How much is a fathom? I don't know. I'm just going to say, I don't know, it's a measure of C, of like, of C distance, I believe. So I'm not exactly sure what a fathom of wampum is. And fathoms of wampum. Imagine if you found like something on like Facebook marketplace and you said, I'll give you 100 fathoms of wampum for it. The response would be to that. I have no idea what you're talking about. You could buy a sound for that back then. Yeah, I bought all of this at pond stars in Vegas. No fucking shit. So that's a crazy deal. That's a good deal. How many acres is it? How much land? That's sure, but it's a bunch because there was some... Just swath. It doesn't matter if it's just this town because in the beginning, it was also West Springfield and Agawom were together and then they split apart in 1800. So we don't know what the original purchase was. A shitload of land. It's a nice area too. Not bad. Several swaths for a couple of fathoms. A couple of fathoms of wampum. I mean, what else do you want here? If you do decide to make an offer on that house, see how many fathoms of wampum they'll take. Well, it already saw them. Well, nevermind. It was awesome. So they also had put a racetrack in their horse racing track and Seabiscuit won the Springfield Handicap in record time in October 1935. Awesome. So that's pretty cool. The racetrack also operated for a while until betting was outlawed by a referendum in November 1938 and then they had to close that down too because nobody wants to just watch horse's race. That's what's hilarious. There's nobody's watching that for sport. It's just a famous person from here, Annie Sullivan, who was the Helen Keller's tutor, as you might. Oh, okay. Yeah. The lady that probably also didn't exist or is the person that made up Helen Keller. Yeah, exactly. You were thinking of Virgil Earp's wife, I think. That was, yeah. I knew it. Exactly what I was doing. I'm like, we're the same. So we're going to definitely think of that. Let's find out what people think of this place here. Because the town kind of plays a big role in this case here. So we'll find out what they think with some reviews in this town because we've never been there and we don't know. I might have driven through here, but that's about it. Yeah, I may have gone from going through Connecticut before, but fuck them. Who knows? No. That happened to me. Yeah. I think they go by so fast. That's the thing that's just exits on the highway. Here's four stars, such a homey town. That's right. That's homey. They say growing up in a lot of, hey, not a homesy town, a homey town. Homesy. It's very homesy, eh, homes. Such a homey town. They say growing up in a small town is what shapes you and it's true. Well, wherever you grow up shapes you and it's true, not just. If you grow up in a city, it doesn't shape you at all. There's nothing. You're a gelatinous lump when you're 18, no shape. You will find or you find and make your own fun, whether it's going on long drives or randomly to wall a Walmart or target. In other words, there's nothing the fucking do here is what you're trying to say. It's a lot of wandering around. If making your own fun is randomly going to Walmart, that's not a lot going on. Very sad. Yeah. The people in this town, for the most part, are very nice except when you bring up politics or some just touchy subject to the Agawom Forum on Facebook and then stuff really goes down. Yeah. The local Facebook. People keep to themselves and tell you involve everybody with fucking politics, of course. On social media. Yeah. Where they're not even face to face with you. Yeah. Right. Every local, every small town's Facebook page is a shit show of people just arguing politics. It's just, it's basically the app next door, but like, yeah, on Facebook, because it's super, because you don't need next door, because it's just your town. Here is three stars and this is the hilarious review of a town. I don't know if we have an animal control. That's a fascinating first line, by the way. I don't know if we have an animal control. I'm not sure. The only time I had an issue was when a possum showed up on my porch. What? What does it have to do with the fucking town? That's what I'm saying. The police came, put it in our backyard and just shot it. Okay. Awesome. That's what they do. I didn't know that was a. Police showed up and executed it in front of my family. He couldn't just push it into the woods like there's a lot of woods. It's lives around there, probably. I'm sure you all know what they eat. Just throw that over the fence and it'll go get it. Well, who the hell would call anybody because a possum showed up on your porch? Shoot it away. Get it out. Open the door. It'll go. Yeah. Walk the door. It'll leave. Open the door. Put a couple pieces of bread on the steps. It'll be gone. What's a possum eat? Anything. Cats. I don't know. Anything. They eat whatever. Really? The possums and stuff. Yeah. We have possums outside of my place. Yeah. They eat like mice and shit, too. They're handy to have around, actually. That's great. Yeah. I'm a predator. Snakes, I think. Very poor handling. The murder? Yeah. Yeah. They didn't even clean up the crime scene. They put up a little square yellow tape. Good. Then they just left it in our yard and told us we had to dispose of it. They just like buck buck and were like, yeah, you get rid of that. We're heroes, aren't we? Like a mob hit. Two stars. Kids are exposed to drinking an alcohol. It's not kids being exposed to drinking an alcohol. Is there, too, if not in Massachusetts, in southwestern Massachusetts, where would you be safe? God forbid never watch a football game they have ads for it constantly. Parents should be stepping in the way more to prevent it. That's exactly how it's written, the way more. And finally, one star. And this is a real... I love when they're really pointed at something. That's specific. The mayor has been in office too long and is a jerk. Damn, shouldn't be. Not only has he been there, I personally don't care for it. Many businesses have closed. There are too many houses and residents, but not enough jobs. Okay. There you go. So that's all the mayors. Start one. Because the mayor of a small town controls all that stuff. He should get us all jobs. They definitely don't control the jobs distribution, I doubt. No. People in this town, 28,715. Oh, it's a good size. Good size. Yeah, it's a good size, but it's also a very small town. These towns are kind of in the, like by themselves. Yeah. So it feels small. Off in the woods. Exactly. Few more females and males. Media and age is 46 and a half, which is well older than the regular. It's about 38 normally in the country. It's about a little over 50% married, which is above the national average. It's not a town where you're like, "I'm swinging. I'm single and I'm going to go walk around Walmart randomly for something to do. Can't wait to find everybody and hook up." Average age is 46. Yeah, average. Yeah, baby. This is going to be hot. Hot swinging times in Agawam. High apple cider vinegar gummy sales. Oh, huge. Huge. Off the fucking charts. Nobody knows. The unemployment rate in this town is high actually, well higher than the national average. Nationally, it's like below 4%. But here it is eight and a half percent. Oh, my gosh. So not enough jobs. That person was not lying. You're kidding. But the median household income here is higher than the national average, $78,619. It's normally about $69,000, so that's good. The cost of living 100 is regular or average. Here it's 96, so a little bit low. And the housing is pretty close to the national average. Median home cost here, $309,500. So they're awesome houses, aren't they? Some of them are. Well, let's find out. What do you say? Oh, let's do it. Since you looked in Ashburnum, maybe you want to go to Agawam. I can't tell you how great a New England house is. It's the one. So for you, Jimmy, and for all of you out there, we have for you the Agawam Massachusetts Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $1,300 a month, which is a little above the national average, but not terrible. Here's a two-bedroom, one-bath, 768-square-foot house. It is a trailer or house? No, it's a house. It's a house. Back then, they have these little houses. It's like a cottage almost. That's close to tiny house spec, 768. You could get on HGTV with some shit like that. Apartments that are that small are like laughable. They're small. Yeah. It's a small house. It's pretty outdated. It looks like a Midwestern basement all through it. Wood paneling fucking everywhere. It's clearly like, you know, grandma lived alone after grandpa died in this tiny house. But it's still nice and clean and grandma kept it up. You know what I'm saying? You're going to have to do some remodeling. It's not modernized, but $224,900 for that. A little high. Is there 11 acres with that? Nope, that is less than half an acre. That's a lot of money. It's a little bit high here, for sure. But then, like, the bigger houses aren't that expensive. Like, here's a four-bedroom, two-bath, 2,268-square-foot house. Wow, it's three of that house. Yeah, it's built in 1880 in this house. Okay, so it's probably been added on to. And it has. It's been completely remodeled recently. Obviously, and they added on to it. It's a two-family house. Like, it's an upstairs downstairs house. Oh, got it. It's a two-family house now. And it looks like they added a third unit, too. Outback, I don't know if that's for storage or what it is. But $443,500 for it. Okay. Which, is this three of that other house? And it's only double the price. Yeah, it's, I mean, it's not terrible. So when you get into that mid-range, then this, this isn't bad either, except I don't like the house because in the Northeast, I like an old, tiny looking house. You know what I mean? I don't want a brand newish, like, sleek, modern house. That can't cut houses. Fucking dope. This house is seven bedrooms, five bath. Okay. 6,025 square feet. A monster. It's on an acre of land, and it's a total McMansion. Like, there's no trees around it. Oh, there's no fucking charm? No, they, oh God, no. The charm has been flushed away and replaced with quartz countertops in place of charm. It's got some ugly, smeary shit in the entryway too. It looks like shit smeared on the walls. That's an art thing. I don't really like it. It's very, very, it's, it's too much. You wouldn't like this house. Neither of us would. 999,999 dollars for that bad boy. One acre. That's one acre. Yeah. The house takes up a good chunk of it. So, yeah, it's right in the fucking middle of all that. It's right in the middle. Yeah. You just have some lawn around you. Things to do in this town. Okay. Things to do. Not a lot going on as we found out, driving around, going to Walmart. So they do have Target. They do have the Big E arena. Okay. What is that? There we go. It's, I don't know, the Big E and that's around the Big E arena. I guess this is some kind of festival. They say music fans will enjoy top name concerts at the Big E arena. Terrific. That's good. Top names. Top names. Also. Shop till you drop here. Yeah. Only, only at the, it's what it says. Only at the Big E can you go home with a set of steak knives, a hot tub, a sweater made from alpaca fiber and maybe even a tractor. Yeah. Sounds like an Old West general store. Like what the fuck is that? Well, four things you cannot find in the same building usually. That's true. Usually not. No, you can't get those all together. Let's go to Cabela's. Yeah. And even they, they might not have the hot tub. They might not. I don't think they're going to have a hot tub. Maybe inflatable. Yeah. That's it. With everything you could ever want all in one place, it's better than any mall in the world. Oh, great. I don't believe that. You know, like it's like the internet, but live feels like they haven't been to Minnesota. Yeah. Yeah. No, I don't think so. There's a pretty good mall there guys. So get your Agon. Oh, yeah. Agriculture. Agriculture is one of the eastern state's expositions, oldest traditions and farm aroma is the heart of agriculture during the biggie. Okay. Visit the chick hatchery, pedagote, learn about the secret life of bees and all things farming in the strow building. They got a secret life? A secret life. I think we covered that in the cartoon movie, right? I think we got that. Yeah. Jerry Seinfeld told us all about it. And he really brought broad strokes over that whole thing, I think. He even brought swimmer with him and somehow swimmers drip character came through his voice. It always does. You could see his face. It's crazy. Yeah, you could see his boring. No smile. No. Yeah. Oh my God. So there's an auction. There's all sorts of shit painting workshops, rock painting. Oh boy. Painting a rock. Yeah, you actually are painting a rock. They also have a Pioneer Valley art walk through history currently displayed at the Agawom Library. Take a walk through history by viewing our artist's rendition of historical places. At the close of the show, the art walk will be displayed at the Pioneer Valley Festival. I am bored already thinking about that. Yeah. Can't think of any pioneers that were in Massachusetts. Let's find out some bands that are playing, Charlie. Yeah. Top names? Well, we'll get to those in a minute, but these are the, this is on the emerging stage, the E stage, the emerging stage. We get win and the white light, which is like three 22 year old chicks. I don't know if they don't have instruments, so I don't know what they play. They're just sitting on a couch in their picture. They just be all acapella. Reservations at eight, which looks like the only way to put it is three complete douchebags. Let me show you. Let me show you what we have here. What? Those that's reservations and a yeah, there's just three douchebags there. That's what that looks like. The corner boys, which is three white guys, one of which has a banjo and the man next to him is holding an accordion with a straight face. So that's not what corner boys. That's different. Hello sister is playing there, which is three chicks that all look like their sisters. They all have, they're all thin and have long brown hair. Charlie Marie is playing, who is a woman, by the way, with what looks like a sort of cowboy hat on and a kerchief around her neck. So kind of, but if you want folk, I think you're going to want Sarah the fiddler. I wonder what she does, not sure what she fiddling with, what she fiddling around with. She stands up there like adjusting her jeans around her crotch. I think so. I'm just fiddling. Can't stop fiddling. I don't know why. Oh, that's great. Sarah can't go. Keep going. Sarah. And trout will be there. All right. Just a good looks like a band. That's it. Leon trout. That's it. What else we got? Derek O'Canos. Cat wolf. I'm I'm waiting. We're got anybody recognizable? He County. What is it? The East Age. Maddie Ryan, the four one threes, drop party, John Spignese band. They don't even have pictures of themselves and then J E.A.U.X. Joe Joe. That's true. That's true. J E.A.U.X. I think that's Joe. Isn't that Joe? It might be Joe. Possibly. Yeah. But how many people go and now we're coming to the stage, Jew. He means Joe when they get out there. Yeah. I mean, we thought that it was pretty obvious. But I guess, yeah, looking at it in the retrospect, it's, he pronounced it right probably. We might be dumb. And then in the main building, you're going to get Ludacris, of course. He's everywhere. I had to put a look at this show. He gets to every one of these things. Ludacris, Dustin Lynch, yeah, he's great, brothers Osborne, yeah, they're great. They look like an identical except one has a beard. Here's the thing, James, every one of these guys, apart from Ludacris, it's obviously country. Well, yeah. Country shit. Yeah. Big-time rush. Yeah. Oh, what? That's a Nickelodeon thing. That's what they look. And also, public enemy will be there. Well, that is a wild line. That's a wild line. Different days, but still, that's a, you're going to have brothers Osborne, public enemy, big-time rush. That's one weekend. Yeah. Which is a, wow. That's everybody you're getting there. Crime rate of this town, we are interested in here. We have property crime is about one-third below the national average. Okay. So pretty safe. And then violent crime murder rate robbery, and of course assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime is about half the national average. So that's great. Yeah. It's a safe place, nice little town. That said, let's get into this here. Let's talk about some people first. Let's talk about Lisa Ziger. She is born March 24th, 1968, and Lisa was born in Holyoke, Massachusetts. But spent most of her life in the Agawam area. She went to school there and, you know, graduated from high school there in 1986. And while she was in high school, she played saxophone and flute in the Agawam concert band, which would be difficult to play at the same time. Seems like you can't do both, yeah. But those instruments are taking up a good amount of wind from you. So you're going to have to do those separate. That's, yeah. She, well, maybe she was very tough if we have no idea. No, but seriously, that's, that's, I don't know how to play either instrument. So for someone to be able to do both of those, I'm real impressed. If, yeah, it feels though like they probably are similar, you know, probably they have you blow wind and you just have different blow in it and finger it. That's it. That's it. Well, she's good at those things. And she also, that was in the Agawam concert band. She also performed as a drum major at for the school's marching band for two years. So that's another instrument she plays. Drums flute saxophone. Unbelievable. She should just make an album of all of her own stuff here. She's good. She's well banded. Well, yeah. She's also a member of the school's literary magazine and worked on the student newspaper. That journalist too. I'm exhausted. I'm exogenous. Brilliant. As a teenager, I did nothing extracurricular. That's the other part. It's like she has so much happening inside her body, turning her into a person. And yet she stresses, yeah, the ability to, I'm so impressed, talent to do this. That's right. Yeah. And like artistic endeavors and shit. That's incredible. And she wasn't like slacking on everything else. She's also a member of the National Honor Society. Hell yeah. And the American Field Services program, which I don't know what that is, but I feel like, you know, I should know what that is, but I don't. Sounds nice. So she is a busy, busy young lady. No kidding. And likes to just likes to keep churning here. She graduates in 1986 from high school. She went to Westfield State College, where she received a degree in elementary education. She wants to be a teacher. And she wants to specifically teach special needs, kids. Is that right? She's a fucking angel is what she is. You're talking about a hero here. Yeah, if you have, if you ever had a kid who was in, has any special needs and has gone to school for that, some of these teachers that do this are fucking incredible people. They really are. It's really amazing what they do. Yeah. They can get your kid really out of a shell and it's yeah, it's something, man. So anyway, her mother D would quote her quote is that she leases a good person with a beautiful smile who warmed a room when she walked in. Oh boy, that's not good. Woves don't do that. That's not good. Yeah, you say that about somebody, you might as well put a target on their back. You better just turn the thermostat down everywhere you go. Teach your kid to be a little bit of an asshole. You know what I mean? You don't want anybody to say that. Hey everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about one of the safest sponsors you could ever see. Simply safe, SimplySafe.com S-I-M-P-L-I-Safe.com. Totally. And if you're anything like us, you think a lot about the security of yourself, your things, your family, the people you love is a big deal. And especially safety first, especially like I know for me personally, after we had the house we were selling got broken into and everything got messed up and the plumbing and all this stuff was like, oh my thank, thankfully we weren't there and nobody got hurt or anything like that. No, I knew at that point got to get some security because it's the world is crazy and especially doing our shows. We understand that. And luckily for us, when this happened, we were already doing a podcast and I knew about SimplySafe and we happened to have the best security there is. SimplySafe is the best and we've trusted SimplySafe to protect our home and our studios and everything else for years. And you know us. We're weird with research. I've researched. They are the best by the way. With your home this summer with 20% off any new SimplySafe system when you sign up for fast protect monitoring, just visit simplysafe.com/small that's SimplySafe S-I-M-P-L-I-Safe.com/small. There's no safe like SimplySafe. Absolutely Angie, good stuff Angie's list is now Angie, the nation's largest home services marketplace and they're here to help homeowners get all their jobs done well. Angie, yes they've helped over 150 million homeowners care for their homes. Whenever the project big small indoor outdoor come to Angie you understand we both own homes and yeah projects are difficult so they pile up. They pile up and Angie makes tackling the project simple from start to finish. Get started on the app or you can go to Angie.com that is A-N-G-I dot com get your job done well with Angie today and now back to the show. So in 1990 she started working as a teaching assistant in the Agawom middle school where she worked with special needs students. So she does that during the day and she's a certified teacher that's the thing too she doesn't need to be an assistant but at the time in the early 90s here this is you know 89 she graduates from there there was a pretty damn solid recession at this time in the country and nobody was hiring new teachers they were all everybody was pulling cutting back on this type of thing so she couldn't find a full-time job anywhere. So she kept trying but she was just working as a teachers assistant all day and but still you know making an impact and everything. A friend of hers said we would go out you know to clubs and we would listen to music and dance and she had her favorites but if we were in the car or even just driving and a song came on that she loved she would pull over to the side of the road into a parking lot and just turn up the radio and get out and dance. All right wow what a she just lives in the moment that's so cool. I've never thought to do that really. This is great over fucking yeah I used to embarrass my kids and do dance breaks like in traffic and just turn red no no I'd get out of the door and just make them very embarrassed. Yeah yeah we've all done that shit to embarrass our children obviously yeah but that's as far I'm not doing it taking a dead ass you're not doing it like you if me and you were driving you wouldn't be like oh shit James this is my jam and like pull over to the side of the road and get out just to dance. I need a gas station fast are you on E no no dude this is the best song. This is my shit. That's what I'm saying. Watch me my ass. She'll be twerking on the window so that's there's a certain in the moment and certain just a love of life that you can tell just from that quote of this person must really enjoy life to be like having a good time. Wow. I'm gonna dance. I'm gonna dance and I'm gonna dance about it. She has two jobs too she works at night she's also a Sunday school teacher as well. God Jesus. She is this this girl is busy this young lady like she doesn't stop she does not stop which is a good sign that she'll probably get somewhere in life which is just yeah plugging away so so at this point now by 1992 she's 24 years old and she's very close to their family she has a boyfriend a long term steady boyfriend named Blair so you know she's got that going on she's got a large group of friends that she hangs out with. She works in the middle school and she also works part time at night in the evenings after school at Brittany's card and gift shop which is just a little tiny little box of a store. Little some home. Yeah a little standalone. I can't tell the hallmark. Hallmark. I'm trying to get an accent it's a hallmark store there. She worked there in this place you know it's like it is like a hallmark store and they have balloons balloons are a big part of their business yeah yeah snow globes and yeah balloons cards yeah little cummel figurines and the most it trinkets you give people and they throw away exactly they put it on their shelf for a minute and they throw it away. Her brother David describes her thusly she was kind of a big kid she was very she was ready to enjoy life and see the silliness and things it sounds like it she'll pull over to the side of the road. The deacon of her church where she taught catechism to second graders on Sunday. Mad Catholic. Said she lived for children that was her passion. She loved she liked teaching the kids in both environments I mean she couldn't get enough of the kids during the week all week this lady is overwhelmed with kids all day long and she's like give me more on Sunday. That's impressive to me like that you can tolerate that somebody needs to because I can't so truly yeah. Now the weird thing is at the end of March and into April Lisa told a friend of hers that she felt like she was being watched at one point. She said several times unless glad yeah well yeah there's always somebody the Holy Ghost or somebody looking over my shoulder yeah she's always being watched and she said she doesn't know if number one more than Catholic guilt no no no she feels like she's being like watched when yeah that's what I'm saying it's way more than Catholic guilt she feels like there's a person yeah not like when she's fucking she feels like somebody's watching like just when she's at the gas station she feels like somebody's watching her pumper gas that kind of thing okay I don't think catholicism goes quite that deeply into the guilt of you know I just not just having and I shouldn't have done that premarital sex with her boyfriend it says premium only I'm gonna get away with it this time I only need a half a tank it'll mix with the premium right now god damn it shit now that's it now I'm in for double now I'm in for double fuck. So yeah she said that she didn't know if it was even true or if she was just a figment of her imagination maybe something tripped her out and then she's got an eerie feeling she's got an eerie feeling but she's also self aware enough to go I might have just scared myself you know like you hear a noise and look into a dark room and you scare the shit out of yourself type of deal she said I don't know who it is if it is anybody or if it's true or what but she just said something was very very weird here and she could be feeling like she's being watched especially at work because the storefront has big large plate glass windows in front so you can kind of see in the store so people could what that could make you feel like you're on display you know a little fishbowl yeah a little fish bully I would say so she did all of that she you know is maybe at work she felt a little creepy April 16 April the night of April 15 she works she during the day and then she works at night at Britney's at the gift shop as well and then April 16th her mom D says April 16th the school calls and Lisa hasn't come in she didn't show up for work didn't show up on the 16th and she never does that you know she's pretty dependable she they know it's they gave her an extra 20 minutes in case a good song came on maybe she was hitting a jam yeah you never know like it was a block like a three sock no commercials and three jams in a row and they're like she could be a little late but never case he case him just hit her with that one with a bullet yeah oh man I got a dance to this so the there's a call from Lynn her sister this is the mother saying the call from Lynn her sister Lisa is missing apparently a store employee named Sophia had called to report Lisa's car her coat and pocketbook and artwork were all in the store but she wasn't he her pocketbooks there their pocketbooks there everything is there so the mom said Lynn and I went to the store hoping it was a mistake maybe she was you know she went out ran out for a minute or something which I guess go check it out so they're thinking about what happened on April 15 the day before besides tax day apparently she taught all day like we said she got in her car drove over to Britney's here and this is at 353 Walnut Street so that's where we're talking about it's she about 4 p.m. on a Wednesday she gets there and this is Easter's on Sunday by the way so it's Easter week here so and Lisa by the way she's really pretty also which is a yeah yeah she's a pretty young lady very happy yeah she's described here as it was mass live dot com at a very good article on this whole thing and there she's described as a 24 year old with dark curly hair freckles and blue eyes so the life lottery this gal pretty yeah pretty check not bad so she was scheduled to work until nine o'clock which is closing time for this joint here they don't stay open late generally a balloon store nobody's coming in you got any get well it's midnight no I really need a but I need a happy fifth birthday now I need it now let's get real shit that I'm terrible I missed it he's gonna wake up to nothing so apparently she spent a lot of her shift putting helium into balloons yeah and stuff because there's a lot of people doing Easter stuff for some reason here like balloons yeah past all balloons go go crazy stuff yeah so at about 530 her sister Lynn came into the store okay to visit her which is nice and they get to hang out and talk for a few and they talk a little bit she talks about Lisa talks about trying to get a job at yeah you know a full-time job teaching and she's talking about her job at the school and they're just bullshit and chit chat and do all that you know everything about a half hour they bullshit for and then Lynn leaves the store and drives home there's that now a friend visited her also that night as well right life she has yeah people stopping but that's a small town people just stopping by hey I'll go in and hello pop in to say hi here and she said that she was had been disturbed by a tall thin man with dark hair who was hovering in the store hovering and that she said that that Lisa had said that she wished that he would go away because he's annoying basically yeah but Lisa had recognized the man and said oh he's been here before because the guy the friend was like what this fucking guy go away who is this fucking asshole and Lisa's like no he's been here before he's looking for a present you know he said what he was looking for whatever so the friend was like yeah whatever and she leaves okay leaving this guy there so the next morning Sophia Maynard shows up she opens the shop in the mornings and when she drove up she spotted Lisa's white Chevy Geo Storm which is the most 1992 car you can drive sure not yeah holy shit you forget the Geo was a one point yeah forget it was a car one point never mind a Chevrolet product yeah Chevy Geo Storm they put their fucking Chevy logo on that oh that was a suicide the storm got a big mistake and the storm was the one that like they thought was like a little sports car too yeah that was their little sporty one the Geo Storm because the Metro was like the little bubble car yeah like a little like a little types car but it was boxy at the first model and it had a three cylinder and went to like the round the same thing as a Suzuki Swift yeah yeah that round with a bubble car with a pointed front end yeah an Easter egg car yeah it looks like it looked like a hat basically a little bit little fun and a big bubble yeah the hat car but she had the storm which is the cool one you know for a Geo yeah yeah so she sees that her Geo Storm is still there which she doesn't work days so that's weird and then saw the store's open sign was still out still open still open on the outside of the door she's like that's strange the front doors unlocked and all the lights are on we are open we're open which normally she's the opener so she comes in everything's locked and closed to the open shut off and all that so she's like what the hell's going on the radio was on also in there radios on she calls out she doesn't know so she's like I mean the last person here had to be Lisa so she calls out her name a few times but doesn't get any answer so she walked up to the cash register and sees that there are her car keys and her purse okay sitting right there so she walked into the store room and noticed that the back door was open and several boxes were knocked over and like stuff was a or a skew basic inside or outside inside the back doors open in the store room there's boxes like knocked over and shit's weird so she was like what the hell's going on here so she immediately thought there was a problem here ran out of the store went across the street to Alvin's sandwich shop and screamed something's wrong call the police yeah so this is a quote from her she said I saw her car and then I remembered that Easter weekend was coming up we had planned to stuff some balloons and maybe that's what she was doing there maybe like I came in early just to get a let's get a big balloon fucking a big ballooning in at once and then we can relax so I didn't really think much of much anything until I walked inside the story you know I called her name a couple times and I figured she'd just pop her head out she didn't I came behind the counter all of her things were there her drawings her pocketbook her car keys and then I just kind of freaked out I knew that something was wrong so I ran out across the street to a restaurant and I asked them to call the police so yeah just something's not right here boxes knocked over and she doesn't and if you're a young woman going into a store you're not like hey mother fucker who's here like you know you're probably like oh shit if something happened to her someone could be here and I'm next so peace out you know I'd do the same shit if I'm her so they get here pretty quick the cops by the way it's a small town nothing much is going on so especially on a Wednesday morning or whatever Thursday morning so they pop in and they found they look closer because this she just saw boxes knocked over but they look at certain things and they see the some evidence of a struggle here oh number one knocked over boxes number two shoe markings like scuff marks oh scuffs on the back door so they find that kick okay yeah somebody was being dragged to they found also like scuff marks on the floor to from okay shoes that's that's very they keep it real professional around here because the pizza place I worked at when we took out the trash they literally kicked the yeah it was shit loads of scuff marks on that yeah I think I saw that he like oh my god they kidnapped everybody I think there's also on the back door shoe marks too on the back of the door like outside oh outside yeah that's another thing yeah so there is also a small amount of blood in the store room as well what they find oh oh so like that's not great I mean it's better than finding a large amount of blood small amounts good yeah but you know if we're if we're going better or worse yeah it's better the cash register completely undisturbed I'll say I mean you could you could balance it out from the night before it when it matched zeros out yeah zeros out so that's interesting so if they don't think it's a robbery obviously people wouldn't leave a pocketbook a car and I'll cash register with money and if there's like a hundred something dollars in it you know there's no no reason so they spend hours they basically do a fan out around the store and look in all of the like Westfield River in marshes in any spot that they know of that's like here's a spot with like a depression or like here's where you could toss somebody or whatever so they look everywhere all around and they also have a helicopter everybody's on I mean this is they spend the whole day looking for and they find nothing not a thing not a thing they find nothing the no trace of her on the outside of the store I mean we've got all of our things so we just got her really yeah and that's what kind of sucks at least if her car was missing you know look for her car right a lot easier to find a car than a person yeah you know that's a problem so one of the cops said there was an assault that took place in the store to gain some kind of control over Lisa there's also a side door and the side door led to an alley that they probably went out the side door and just pulled the car out and left from there so somebody pulled up into the alley yeah so they talk about customers who were there last night let's talk about them one was from a person who'd been there at 8 20 p.m. and made a purchase and had a time stamp receipt so 8 20 p.m. Lisa's alive and fine at 8 20 we know 40 minutes before closing time 40 yeah she's you know not only alive and well typing up jamming pumping in fucking numbers she's pumping pumping shit out she's selling things so there was nothing unusual there they said there was nothing that was out of line nothing you know piqued their attention and said that they should call the police the person that was there they said everything seemed fine in the store the second person was a customer who had gone in at 9 p.m. imagine so right before right as we're closing yeah you couldn't have needed a balloon at 7 you fucking asshole and this was a woman at 9 p.m. and she said that the store was open the lights were on but nobody was in there okay yeah she said that she heard some noise in the back room though so she said someone must have been there but when I called out hello hello nobody answered me but I did hear a banging noise and then you left you fucking not only did you show up at closing time you left after hearing a scuffle well she said she heard banging noises and shit she thought people were like stocking and moving stuff around because they were about to close because she knew she came in at 9 o'clock she know she's an asshole this lady she knows what she did this is all on me all right she knows she did welcome back tomorrow so she heard some shit banging around and nobody answering and she took that as like a well I guess they are not going to help me because it's 9 o'clock if the store is closing so I guess I guess I'm out she said she waited a minute nobody came out so she left she took off she so that means that she heard Lisa being she heard it happening assaulted and being detained in the back there such she was in this imagine how shitty you feel horrible if you knew that something is happening there and you you were there and did fucking nothing about it so we know that she was at least there at 9 o'clock p.m. so further investigation reveals that they believe that she had been horizontal at the floor and there were two kick marks from her shoes at the bottom of the door oh so this isn't like kick yeah you do that this is at the bottom of the door and it's flat so yeah yeah whole footprint at the bottom means you are on the ground you're trying to kick the door open to get attention or that was probably the banging she would get away yeah that was because when someone said hello hello and if she's being restrained the only way if you kick the door a couple times trying to get attention I'm back here but no one is going to go oh I'll go in the back store room in this place a crow would you do that yeah would you do that or would you take it as fuck you only is only I can't I can't come sorry I'm leaving now says authorized personnel I'm not even allowed to use the bathroom it says here that's for employees oh yeah okay I do it so yeah that and I don't think I if I just heard banging I would take that as like go fuck yourself it's nine o'clock leave yeah you know I guess they're banging telling me to leave yeah that's how I would take it I mean that's just me I'm like though yeah no one wants me here I should go you know what I mean my money is not important they just want me out no shit so another tip comes in from a witness who worked near the card shop here work near Britney's this person said at 915 p.m. on that night this woman was on her way home and she saw what they may believe could possibly be the killer's car or the kidnappers car or whoever the fuck's going on scar she said she saw what appeared to be a man and a woman to be struggling in the backseat now there's going to be a lot of there's a lot of people are hurt it's she originally I think says there's three people in the car she said it looked like two men and a woman and then she says maybe it was one man and a woman so for a long time there's a lot of people who don't know if it's two people or one person that did this so there's a lot of that's going to really cause a lot of confusion later on so but that's what she said she said the car had been pulled off the road and about a mile away from the card shop from the car shop okay and she thought it was just a carload of teenagers fucking around and drove on that was her thought nobody wants to look into anything you know what everybody's doing though they're mining their own business which I can't be I can't no no no this is still better this is still good because what's going to happen if she pulls over she gonna fucking support the whole thing business yeah and now there's two people in the back of the car with the psychopath that's not good he's like oh good I got two great well good look at me it's raining it's raining gals yeah it's really it's raining broads over here so the vehicle is a late model full size bronco or blazer either dark red or dark blue that's what she says so they by the next day after they don't find her on the 16th wow they're starting to become pretty certain that she's a victim of some kind of foul play judging by the scuff marks the blood and the fact that she disappeared and doesn't does never purse with her or car or anything yeah so they cert they widen the search with officers searching the banks of the Westfield River and traveling 60 miles into Connecticut to interview anybody with ties to Lisa at all is that right anybody yeah so they're just you know trying they're really grasping and that's just a big net that's the next day so by the 18th of April the day after that two days after she's not there police announced that she has been kidnapped and that they have narrowed the time frame of her disappearance to between 8 21 and 9.05 p.m. is 8 21 was the timestamp of that receipt right yeah and so they know that in the 9.05 they figure that is when that woman left the store sometime in there they add that there could be a connection between her disappearance and an attempted kidnap kidnapping reported in West Springfield which is right next door right there on April 9th a few days earlier so the rest of the week goes by Friday goes by it's good Friday nothing Saturday comes nothing nothing then Easter Sunday comes so Easter Sunday there's a man hiking with his dog oh no a long yeah the smile that warms a room and a man walking with his dog or two yeah two bad things bad things happen crazy that she's kidnapped on was a good Friday she's kidnapped there's two couple days before Wednesday I think she was kidnapped but so this guy it's a very muddy path in the woods this is a couple miles from the gift shop but deep in the woods in the mud he tripped over the body of some of a human being and it was it was Lisa that he trips up not looking where he's walking at all no tripping over fucking bodies and shit that's that's oblivious that I've heard so many weird stories like that there have you ever heard the Ted Bundy story no about about somebody tripping over his body well he is right there he was in the woods he had killed somebody and there was a he heard people coming and it was dark in the woods so he just kind of tried to cover the body up with leaves quick and went and hidden a bush off to the side because people were coming down the fucking trip down the path and it was a young couple and it turns out it was Harrison Ford actually what yes it was Harrison Ford that's the weird thing he was walking and they as they were walking it was a young couple they tripped over his body that he had there but it's so dark from a boulder James I don't know it's Ted Bundy told it and then later on Harrison Ford said that was me so that's how wow so Ted Bundy said this happened though he said somebody tripped over the body but it was so dark they just thought it was like a root or a stump or something yeah no or even a deer or whatever the fuck it was and they kept walking and he was off to the side like oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck and then he went out and took the body man on the planet that's more handsome than me ah Jesus Christ look at that guy look at the charisma on this guy he's fighting he's fighting the Empire he's fucking run up for boulders locked this guy could be president fuck with his plane I'll tell you his voice so fucking iconic yeah wow and you'll never catch him you'll never catch him if he's trying to run for I mean so yeah this is amazing after 2 p.m her body was found this is about 300 yards off of route 75 which um less than a mile from the card shop and this guy was walking a dog he's walking his dog yeah and the dog didn't see it even notice it just tripped over he isn't apparently it's not like a hunting dog or anything so just a dummy the cop said that she is partially clad meaning Lisa she had on a pair of boots and some of her clothing had been pulled down including a denim skirt that had been torn and it was torn not on a seam oh just anger yes so they're going this has to be a pretty good sized strong person she's tiny she's five to 120 pounds I mean she's a small young girl a young lady who can rip of a skirt it's somebody just yeah tore a skirt like that so they they said that was bad and pulled down and there are signs of sexual assault including blood and semen on the denim skirt that they're gonna find here so as they they removed her body and other things from the scene they found buttons they found a blood soaked white blouse that they think the buttons came from like it was torn off of her and the denim skirt torn in half so it was ripped off of her all the way up the waist band to the seam though yeah right the seam just torn like like the Hulk got out of it not Hulk Hogan Hulk the fucking green one yeah yeah they said that this was very brutal and the fact that the skirt was not torn along the seams suggested this had to be a very powerful person that did this obviously a man full person somebody's mad oh I don't know who has that much raid and a boner at the same time that that much rage and a boner is a weird thing to walk around with that's it if you see someone raging with that in their pants right report them because there's gonna be a rate wow wow and this is a low this is an out of the way area I mean this is it's a mud trail like you have to be from around here so they said this has to be a local nobody would be driving through and know to come here yeah no one would know this was here so it's it's interesting they found that because everybody in town always wants to think it's a drifter because they probably yeah drifted in did this and then what drifted out is what they're hoping for right and everyone right they wanted to whatever the ending is they needed to be yeah something that makes their place safer when this is over they need to be gone it can't be Bob from no you know what I mean because that'll freak people I'll never sleep again no so they look at her wounds and they said that her between the crime scene and her wounds it suggested a real long and violent fight between these two because they clearly fought in the store room and then they clearly fought in the store and they said out here look like they were fighting to right so her hands were covered in deep defensive wounds knife wounds so she fought a lot and hard like a lot of defensive wounds so she did not give up she wow she had stab wounds around her shoulder and throat inches long and some more than an inch deep and another knife wound to her upper left leg and it's a total of nine they believe nine stab wounds total possible eight to nine they can't quite tell her denim skirt and her blood soaked blouse were pulled down toward her ankles the cuts on her hands let her detectives to believe that she really fought hard here and did not go easy and the autopsy believed that she and the autopsy confirms that she was actually assaulted as well and because they discover foreign DNA human blood and sperm cells all over her body and clothing so this guy doesn't know shit about shit you know reckless and and vicious and in 92 if you weren't like keeping up with scientific journals and shit you didn't know a fucking thing about DNA right nobody knew anything in the in the mass public nobody knew about DNA really until OJ trial that's when everyone was like what's this shit before that people had heard they had some thing but 92 nobody really knew it and if they didn't have to disclose that that's how they caught you in a way for the public to not know oh Christ people believe everywhere decades we caught you and we know it's you how well we can't tell you but we definitely know we certain we don't want we don't want this to get out and everybody to be aware of it yeah this show small town murder is sponsored by better help what are your self-care non-negotiables that's the thing you got to figure out what do you you can't live without that you can't do some people it's maybe I have to get a workout to get a run in I have to do that I have to watch a specific TV show something so yeah when your schedules packed with these activities and if you have kids you're running around you're living in your life there you have work projects and all this type of thing it's easy to let things slip but when you feel like you have no time for yourself these non-negotiables like therapy that should be a thing that should be on your list are more important than ever so you have to do those take care of yourself so if you're thinking of starting therapy better help is the place to start it's terrific give it a try entirely online designed to be convenient flexible it's suited to your schedule you fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and this is the coolest part you can switch therapists at any time no additional cost that's amazing never skip therapy day with better help visit betterhelp.com/smalltownmurder to get 10% off your first month that's better help h e l p dot com slash small town murder and now back to the show hey everybody just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about one of our favorites quince oh quince dot com q u i n c e dot com that's right and it's a busy seasons we're all going around we're going everywhere in the summer we're traveling your wardrobes your wardrobes get beat up a little bit realistic here a total we're not going to do neither jimmy or myself we're not going to do total wardrobe overhauls here this isn't this isn't like a some sort of reality show before you get a few things here to replace some stuff and that's a word to replace and some worn out stuff with some high quality essentials at a very affordable price from quince and that's what we've done and they have all the seasonal must haves we got some cool stuff jimmy those linen pants all day they're so comfortable oh yeah you you went for the outer yeah i got some i got some undershirts which i like because they're you need a comfortable undershirt these are really comfortable and soft and i got some sunglasses you can do it too upgrade your wardrobe with pieces made to last with quince go to quince dot com slash small town murder for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns that's q-u-i-n-c-e dot com slash small town murder to get free shipping and 365 day returns quince dot com slash small town murder now back to the show hey everybody just going to take a quick break from the show and tell you about an awesome sponsor rocket money oh rocket money dot com absolutely this app will save you money is what it does it's fantastic because you can know it has all your stuff there i found a subscription because i for the show i do all sorts of subscriptions to things i found two different newspaper subscriptions that i don't need anymore and i thought were canceled but yet i pay for them every single month rocket money is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so that you can grow your savings yeah you keep it don't give it to people for nothing right rocket money has over five million users and has saved a total of five hundred million dollars in canceled subscriptions saving members up to seven hundred forty dollars a year when using all of the apps features you're gonna love it stop wasting money on things you don't use cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocket money dot com slash small town murder that's rocket money dot com slash small town murder rocket money dot com slash small town murder now back to the show so in 1992 dna technology is there but this is when you need like it's forever you need like a half gallon of blood to fucking get a dna profile like it's not very good yet but it's we know it exists and we can do some profiling and we can narrow shit down yep you know a little bit you know what i mean we can certainly exclude people exactly and a little bit better than just by blood type which is we were doing before which two people x common blood type it excludes nothing it's stupid so the town's reaction they lose their fucking ever-loving god for sake of fines yeah and they're like oh my god we're in a fishbowl with a murder that's what all of them think um it's here is the director of religious education at the church so this is a woman that knew lisa for a long long time lisa used to babysit her kids and then they worked at the church on sundays and all that so she says i've just called all the children's parents and told them i can imagine what's running through a child's mind but probably the same as everyone else fear and disbelief and anger she said that lisa used to be a carefree teenager who would babysit for my kids and she was great with kids and you know this is horrible and even she would drive her youngest kid to school with her because they she taught at the school and the kid went to school so she'd pick up her neighbor's kid and take a kid to school with her even so they called all the children and ruined their lives yes called all the children's parents okay that she taught catechism too yeah and told them your teacher's not going to be there ever again how about we just say but you moved to Peru butchered butchered denim skirt torn in half covered in semen and down by her ankles butchered eight nine knife wounds horrible hey anyone denim so uh anyway it's cody's birthday on friday so there's going to be cupcakes anyway so uh no balloons no balloons though but you know maybe bring a card so this spread throughout the town young women and around the surrounding communities too like self-defense classes like tripled in size all these people wanted all these women were looking for mace they were walking the stores going where can i get mace right they're like you need like a license for that shit like you know go get a shotgun permit yes people started locking their doors and freaking out and all this type of shit here so then um there was a problem they thought another woman was missing here oh my god after that and so people started freaking out and wouldn't open the door at all here's a woman named carol zocha of 13 17 subfield street she refused to open the door for an employee of bay state gas company because she was frightened by the news of the slaying and she said i said i can't open the door i usually live here with doors unlocked but no more so that's she won't even open for the gas guy she like knows the guy ted i'm sorry i can't you could murder me i don't know they shut me off i can't even cook holy shit and uh they say here from the newspaper it mitches home and garden place on subfield street 21 year old chris fin said she gets chills every time she drives by the spot where zygert's body was found the sales clerk said everyone who comes into the store is talking about the homicide really that's weird right the last homicide happened here by the way in like 1988 or 89 where some stepfather beat like a toddler to death which is bad but that's horrific but it's not near as you're not scared of it doesn't scare you as an adult person who's not in this guy's care he's a frustrated guy that's tired of making mac and cheese and that kid pissed him off and something like that and he's a terrible father that's not a that's not a sex crazed murderer yeah this is a kidnapping rapist murderer this is terrifying well so bad it's really really scary so they said that the thing that scares them the most also is that the killer the police said that the killer is well acquainted with the area and may even be a resident of town they're like how could this be possible oh boy how could it be possible robert landers a resident said i'm very concerned i have four daughters here myself and we have a killer on the loose a killer on the loose they said uh another guy karen i'm sorry kerry blackak a junior at the high school said nobody is going anywhere at night we're too scared i don't believe we have a drifter here said one resident i've lived here my whole life and i've never even known about that field so wow you got to be mad in trench super local yeah yeah generations local that's sick fucking are you local you don't know how local i am great outdoors great yeah great outdoors chick about to get a pool skew in her ass level of local so ladies want weapon they said the demand for mace handguns and other self-protection has increased like crazy since they found the body uh guy who owns one of these stores said it's been hard to keep up with the demand the killing has reminded the whole the entire community of its own mortality okay wow you guys are all just going around rose colored glasses taken every day for granted that's a great life man the weapons that are in demand mace obviously which is chemical spray uh pepper spray which is weak mace essentially yeah you spray that on a tortilla yeah that's pretty good that's not as hot as ghost pepper but okay um james taylor who took time from his busy songwriting schedule what and you know fucking all that's kind of shit of writing very boring songs that make me want to murder myself what is he doing myself um here he is uh he talks about the he's the president of the massachusetts gun over gun owners association not that james taylor right he was yeah different guy he took time out of that to of course be the head of that because that james taylor would definitely be the president of the massachusetts gun owners association or i'm sorry gun owners action league what the hell is that i don't know that's they sound like they shoot people yeah yeah they were looking for an acronym uh they said this guy said handgun permits have gone through the roof and also people want paint guns which i don't understand why paintball guns or just paint ball guns no paintball guns they want well james those are they hurt but yeah not enough james if you really want to murder somebody well yeah if they've got a gun you're fucked if they really want to murder you you shoot them with a paintball gun they're gonna look and go it's fucking you son of a motherfucker and then they're gonna come over me really pissed off now they're gonna torture you yeah but they said that this paint might be able to help identify a person who attacked them later on that's genius i didn't think about that i didn't either that's interesting now the problem is there's other incidents since this has happened as well yeah people have started reporting incidents that have happened in the last month or so to them before the murder and after the murder they received more than 20 calls daily the police from and also a lot of other uh people with a lot of complaints about people being followed women saying they've been harassed yeah and that sort of thing um one this is uh a sergeant here with the police force said a lot of women are reporting something they blew off a week or two a week or two ago where they felt they were being followed or attacked and now they're like oh shit maybe it this is the guy yeah and um an agua wam woman who lives near lisa's belden court apartment said she was followed by an unknown man as she drove home one night um then april ninth a woman reported she was followed after driving from new england health and racquet club in west springfield she pulled into a gas station and the man did not pursue her so he might have just been going the same direction and then you pulled in there and he will continue on home or he was following you you pulled into a public place it was smartly and he left that's possible um but after she left the station he saw she he saw her when she when he was traveling in the opposite direction turned around and began following her again oh my god so that's not good on route 20 so the woman pulled into a restaurant on route 20 that's the great you think oh gas station maybe he was just you know pulled off into a in a restaurant here he didn't get out of her car he pulled in and got out of his car too and grabbed her and threatened to kill her if she screamed this guy was fucking after her man seriously was following her how about that he said i'll kill you if she screamed but the thing is restaurant people saw this was happening in the parking lot and fucking ran outside hell you and the guy ran away there's like eight guys ran outside leave that fucking lady alone we'll kick your ass and he was like oh shit yeah he ran away um so they said that they didn't the sergeant said that he does not know why police failed to release the information about the attempted abduction earlier he said it may have been a clerical error yeah but it might have helped you know that sucks right and how about none of those people that interrupted that shit had a look see it a tag anything a tag no license plan nothing was it a SUV was it a Bronco blazer type perhaps a original SUV nothing um man jennifer collins an employee of healthy habits health club in agawom where this is where lisa exercised by the way okay her gym club membership yeah reported that a man used to visit the juice bar of the all women's club what the fuck do he's like the ratio here's outstanding let me tell you something the asai here is the best in town that's why i'm here it's not the pussy guys if there's an all women's thing it's because they don't want you around that's why it's women that don't feel safe around us guys and stop fucking it up well you don't want to feel like and i get it i can understand why a guy would want to work out with all guys too you don't want to be like look if i'm trying to do this i don't want to worry about that you know what i'm saying and then there's also creepiness yeah of the whole thing who knows so and then some people go to the gym because they like to meet people there so you know no these wet ladies are going not to meet guys we can they're tired of meeting guys tired they've met all the guys are looking to meet here so that this guy used to visit this the man never approached or bothered any of the women but this the woman who ran it said that she felt like it was strange that the guy fuck yeah just would pop up and kind of just hang out with all the women and but he has not visited the club since april 14th which is the day before lisa disappeared that's the last visit he made there which is very weird so glad all businesses have fucking cameras now yeah and by the none of these places had come the restaurant britney's the fucking none of the shit i've got when i was robbed at gunpoint no cameras yep that's right and then the the director of the health club and this is push talk about sweeping under the rug no no it's safe because an employee said yeah we're all creeped out by this guy the director of the health club who refused to give his name by the way a fella yeah he denied that a man had come into the club repeatedly at all get a note you're talking about yeah these broads are crazy they don't know not to don't listen though it's fairly safe around here get in here and buy a membership 39.95 a month come on come on in yeah by the way that'll never go away no matter i don't care you you could you could break your neck you could you could be just a head sitting on a chair you still got to pay sorry you got to pay not i'll ruin your life it's gonna ruin your fucking life i'm sorry so april 20th now yeah five days after this a man tries to abduct a 13-year-old girl okay and near here in south hadley this was approximately eight p.m the man grabbed a girl and pulled her into his car through the driver's side window wow which is pulled up and grabbed her like and started driving with her hanging out the side probably then yanked her in the window like a drive through yeah like let me get i'll take two double cheeseburgers and an eight-year-old and a 13-year-old yeah and a 13-year-old okay chocolate what is frosty yeah yeah frosty he released the girl though and drove off i guess thinking wow that was a crazy thing i just did i can't get her through the window because she's kind of big yeah she'd been dropped off to visit a friend where this attempted abduction occurred police did not think this incident was related to lease's abduction yeah they said they were still interviewing the girl they don't know they described the car as small or mid-sized white vehicle she described the man as white 25 to 30 years old six feet tall 200 pounds or a red baseball cap and had a scruffy face with several days of beer growth and he may have a scar over his left eyebrow okay so there's that um april 21st also a united united university in massachusetts jr was stabbed as well in the parking lot of the hamster ball they're saying that was in this is the most widely publicized homicide since that one just stabbed up and left no yes i think i think i think we talked about this maybe on a bonus episode i think we did because i know that sharon galligan was the name um sounds familiar sounds really familiar stabbed to death in the lot of the parking lot of the hamster mall after finishing her christmas shopping yes on december 18th her body was found the next day inside her car right six parking spots from the mall's main entrance yep i feel like that's i feel like that's it yeah they theorize that she worked at the by the way this is the weird part is that 20 year old galligan worked at a balloon shop in the mall oh my god so they're like this is what the fuck is going on same profession same profession they thought that yeah they think that this she was had fought off a sexual attack and that's why she was killed basically which in three years later you might go okay you injure sexually attacked and kill you know that's how they might have before yeah they might have gotten their their uh you know they're holding up their mo right now got their game down a little better yeah better yeah so they devoted hundreds of hours to the case interviewing known sexual offenders and studying similar crimes nationwide yet at that point the case remained open and no charges were brought against anybody so other unsolved crimes in the area milli heart Rivera a 23-year-old amherst woman found stabbed to death along a wooded stretch of route 202 in holy oak in 1988 um police believe a holy oak factory worker picked her up as she hitchhiked outside a bar and stabbed her to death her body was nude when found and sexually assaulted as well due to lack of witnesses and physical evidence no charges were ever brought against that man okay shane a price 17 of Springfield was found strangled beaten and sexually assaulted in blunt park on christmas night 1990 so the holiday thing is weird too around holidays 15 months later police uh still said they didn't they didn't have a suspect what the fuck one detective said investigators tried to track prices steps in her final hours to determine whether drugs or prostitution played a role in the case um they believe she may have been killed somewhere else and dumped in the park also the body parts of an unidentified woman were found in warwick on June 24th 1988 about a mile and a half from the center of town the arms legs and torso of a white woman were found by a motorist near a rest stop off route 78 oh god and they said that despite efforts by investigators and anthropologists from umass the woman's name age and cause of death still were a mystery good Christ this so i don't want to live anywhere near here no this is terrifying down here what is happening this and then an agiwam woman agiwam woman says she was stalked for two months susan redington okay this is a woman uh she said she was stalked for two months before being confronted by a man who was following her then she basically the man is following her she pulled over she got out to like confront the guy and he tried to attack her so she ran away into a cornfield to get away from him oh god that's the beginning of a murder of a horror movie every time and that's where cops because he was like i can't run away leave my car on the side of the road and chase this woman dance that's where cops found her was in a fucking cornfield and they said they were interested investigating his her story um and they said that they don't believe there's a connection with the murder though um so we got a lot of crazies out here other than we got all sorts of crazies she had said that she stopped at 12 30 a.m. to try to get the man's car registration number he confronted her she kicked him and attempted to knee him in the groin then fled into the cornfield to escape him she's big she's like six two two hundred pounds this woman took and took a self-defense class of yeah she tried to yeah she's not fucking around brothers she ran 300 yards into a into the dark and ended up it's pitch black out there because it's midnight she ran into a tree limb and knocked herself unconscious and that's where the police found her bleeding and freaking out in the in a cornfield wow lucky they found her first yep and they do have a suspect which look here's the suspects they don't have a such they have a sketch i mean okay it looks like an 1800s Englishman basically is like sideburns with like a bowler on it's very strange looks like adam corolla in a timepiece yeah from the 1800s yeah so they have lisa's funeral and it's at the colonial funeral home uh they've already raised five thousand dollars in reward money from donations from local businesses and community organizations with you know for information leading to the arrest of a killer more than 16 investigators including all eight members of the the town's police departments the whole department's eight people all eight uh the other to their detective bureau i'm sorry our design to the our assigned to the case the fbi is also assisting in the investigation and so is the connecticut state police too since it's so close to the border um basically here everybody everybody shows up at her memorial they have on april 23rd more than 800 people attended her funeral oh my god that's a shitload of people man that is awesome yeah that's that's fucked up um the weird part by the way the sandra retting thing in the woods yeah that was the strange thing was it was on the same road it was off the same route 75 that they found her so when people drove up and saw the highway closed and saw cops and shit they're like oh my god there's more bodies off route 75 so that spread insane rumors through town then they found out it was a woman and a guy you know may have tried to abduct her then people freaked out even more even though the cops said this has nothing to do with it so it's um it's pretty wild the one policeman said we want to make it very clear there's no tie to the agawomb case there's no 75 murderer stop it no done with that shit they also said it took this woman the unconscious lady in the cornfield took rescue crews uh crews 50 minutes to wrap her in blankets and carry her stretcher 300 yards to the ambulance oh dodging cornfield stuff yeah through a cornfield it's not an easy place to carry a fucking stretcher yeah so there is detective mark uh foul i guess pfa you foul okay i'll buy it yeah he was the main guy working the case from the start uh Lisa's case anyway uh he said plenty of calls and leads are coming in but nothing is panning out at this point it's just the way it goes the first person they're really going to look hard at is who do you think her fucking boyfriend obviously um so there is there's rumors by the way these are all the rumors flying around town all right this should be fun this is a big rumor that Blair the boyfriend had murdered her after she caught him and his roommate Ed fucking each other she walked in on him cornholing Ed and poor player so he went there and fucking murdered her raped and murdered a woman when he's attracted to men okay i'll show you how gay i'm not yeah no i don't think that's that happened here but the main he's obviously a top because he can rip jeans he can tear him yeah you should see Ed's jeans he has not a not a pair left intact no but the the problem with this was yeah Ed his name is ed borgotti the roommate yeah ed borgotti's father was a retired police detective so everybody around town said that's what it was and ed's father was helping cover it all up for heaven's sake so people are always looking for a conspiracy that's just that's a deep cut man yes that's what his detective father doesn't want everybody to know that this guy was cornholing his kid and so that's what the whole thing is the murder of a young woman is covered up to protect a trust between a couple of roommates wow a little bit far-fetched truly yeah a little bit now at the same time he the boyfriend has an alibi because he has a cvs drugstore receipt add up boy for like between the time the time yeah right in the window of the time that wouldn't have given him time to get there right but they could not rule anybody out so they started to also search out for several health club members that said that some but there was a guy that used to stare at least so while she worked out before she joined this gym yeah another thing a key had been missing from her key chain by the way oh so detectives tried to match various suspects keys to lease his apartment door so one of the things whenever they would they talked to hundreds of suspects and one of the things they'd say is we need your keys let me see while they were talking to them they take their keys and go try all his keys out on lease his apartment door to make sure that wasn't her fucking key so that's a very smart to do one person reported the lady who was in the store reported hearing the sounds coming from the back room at night and then there's a woman who said they saw a struggle in a car and that was on the way to and not very far from where her body was found oh jesus she saw that so that's two people that could have saved her and minded their own business unfortunately so detectives here were able to rule out the boyfriend number one he confirmed his alibi and he gave any kind of bodily sample that they asked for happily and they ruled him out with dna his dna did not match the dna of the killer so so deal with it deal with that shit i didn't cornhole my roommate well maybe i did but that doesn't mean i'm a murderer but i ain't a murderer i'm not a fucking murderer although and we'll tell you i murdered that ass because that's how good i am so at that point now um there's they're talking about other suspects well who can we do so they use dna testing to eliminate any close male friends relatives or acquaintances whoever she hangs out with nobody she knows it's no one she knows well or nobody that at least someone she didn't you know her friends and family say she knows well yeah so they talked to other suspects uh they find the man who visited the juice the juice bar they found no they find juice creep yep asai creep he was uh the guy seen staring at her on several occasions also um and he was cleared out from dna he's ruled out also a second man who they found there was a car wash somebody reported that night of the murder at a 24 hour do-it-yourself car wash yeah seeing a man with a throwing out a piece of carpet at the car wash and cleaning inside of his car and they found that guy he came forward and said that was me i didn't kill anybody this is my car you can check it out do a dna test but i'm the guy not matt i got the matt i'm the guy with the fucking carpet that's not not me so they ruled him out as well so they thought that was a really good lead and it got to nothing there's been nothing then they figure out authorities in florida say hey you might have a connection to us here what in addition to a lot of snowbirds coming down this way we also have another issue the abduction occurred two days this lease's abduction occurred two days before the 10th anniversary of a case in florida that was exactly the same really um yes this is the disappearance of Lynn Burdick who is a high school senior who vanished while working alone at a florida variety store on the mohawk trail similar thing yeah two days from the 10th anniversary of the exact day of this happening she went on good friday close yeah i mean around there so yeah nobody would know we we don't know could have been marched that year yeah they said in the it's the thing that caught their attention was that the shop lights were left on in the door open and that one as well yeah in that case as well despite a search for more than a hundred people she was never seen and uh they ended up boarding up that store in florida they said that this is from a newspaper although dilapidated and boarded up the former barefoot peddler variety store reminds residents here that the worst crimes can happen anywhere they said it was from this little wooden country store at the corner of central central shaft road and the mohawk trail that Lynn Burdick an 18-year-old McCann technical high school student doing part-time work behind the counter was abducted her brother came to the store and found an open door the only difference is there was a hundred eighty seven dollars taken from the cash register oh it's a little robbery too how'd they make a hundred and eighty seven dollars selling crap on a fucking trail here i don't know but the search for Lynn continued for months and months and months she's never found wow she was never found she was dumped somewhere and in florida too she could have been fed to the gators we have no fucking idea yeah the mosquito feather yeah it's go down there yeah absolutely so they said that the there's no windows and the one-room store was detached and alone then so they also think the possibility that Lynn may have run away and not been abducted as well okay yes but one of the cops said she didn't run away you had to know this girl she was such a sweet kid so they think she was murdered then again though a former long-time police chief down there says i still say the girl is alive i've always thought that he thinks she ran away yeah very strange he thinks she took a hundred eighty seven dollars and fucking jetty lived lived her life so back up to britney's card and gift shop may sixth 1992 so less than a month after this happens uh the joseph o'neill who owns the shop said he plans to permanently close the shop on may 30th you're gonna close it down he said it's it's grief over the death and the fact that's all people it's just a spectacle now everyone's just coming to they're not buying anything for the next 30 years yeah the next 30 years everybody is going to drive by and go remember when that lady uh disappeared from there and the most found horribly beaten and remember that remember that anyway um what he got for balloons what he got for my lars right now even just passing it in the car yeah dad we know yeah we know again hey right here i know yes never thought yes we remember yes you told me you taught me how to throw a right hook i understand so they also in june june third 1992 still haven't found her yet or still they found her still haven't had any they don't have any soles no leads yeah so they said a community gathering to raise money for her scholarship fund was held the event was limited to 200 people and uh they said they're pushing to have june sixth dubbed lisa ziger day which is difficult because june sixth is already a day isn't it jay i don't know isn't june sixth yes i believe it is june sixth no is there anything in june uh is there a holiday in june yes gagori and cat i don't know it doesn't say anything what is special about june six uh it's d-day jay jay jay that's what it is yeah thank you yeah that's what it was d-day and it was something big d-day nothing happened nothing happened i'm like i think it did i think we might have invaded an entire continent no nothing junes there's nothing in june james first big push to beat the nazis i believe so yeah it's uh so june six we're occupied that day jimmy it was a beach day that day that's all last a lot of guys it's june it's summer it's summer a lot of guys going back and fun it was fun in the sunday that day jimmy lots of guys with pales and snorkels jimmy yeah that would have been a different invasion jesus so maybe pick a different day for lisa day yeah then a day when other people died to with like horrible shit yes and yeah remembrance of a lot of people's sacrifices maybe we pick a different day here so let's go 7th let's go april 15th it'll cheer people up for taxes at least there you go yeah it's a nice young lady it's a better day yeah jesus christ so they are trying to you know raise money for all this they said there's uh these saints from chickpea p will provide musical entertainment okay the saints is the name of the band from they are from chickpea they're not called the saints from chickpea p which would be a very bad bad name the saints of chickpea chickpea they said we want to keep it rolling we want june six to be lisa day i don't know about that yeah he said i don't see it as an annual thing but i would like to see it this year what do you want to do every ten years what do you want yeah and they're also putting together a scholarship that will contribute to the college education of students from this high school that she went to who want to become teachers that's great and the school also dedicates a courtyard in her memory as well beautiful yeah so the city the town the city council approves thirty five thousand dollars in additional overtime for the police department because this isn't like a big city's police department where they have some budget overages it's a small town so they have limited money to spend they can't just go into debt so the money will allow detectives to work daily double shifts and will allow two additional patrolmen to be on the roads during second and third shift one officer will patrol the walnut street extension area and surrounding condominium and apartment complexes and the second will use the police four-wheel drive vehicle to patrol the dirt roads and remote wooded areas around where she was found wow case or somebody sneaking back to dump again or somebody you know doing whatever there's gonna be a McNulty dump just to get all this over time yeah this is a vacant house's shit here tie in red ribbons they said also this is in response to fears that he might be a resident of the town yeah they said we may have a killer on the loose on the streets and i want our force to be as visible as possible i love it cheap said yeah we might have a killer on the loose he's black and whites everywhere he looks that's right and they said they also installed a new tip line at the police department which has generated a flood of calls they said we're encouraging anyone with any information no matter how trivial to call that could be big um then there's also a non-abduction as well and we'll talk about okay the director of healthy habits who we talked about denied published reports that police were interviewing workers there remember we talked about the yeah they had the gem yeah so the director said no one has been interviewed here i wish people would leave us alone we're innocent and we've already lost enough business because of this we're trying to do burpees let us know what the fuck here jesus christ so this is the director saying no no there was never a creepy guy there was never anything even though they talked to the guy there was a guy and he was cleared this guy's saying never not us never leave us the fuck alone here we're ruining our business january 1993 noell desalores okay our d our delores i'm gonna say because it's desalores so delores oh like a french spelling yeah yes uh 22 years old january 1993 she's a nursing student living with her parents near long meadow and she has been just glued to this investigation every it's on the news every newspaper article she's a young woman who's in the wheelhouse of this girl you know up of a potential victim so she's wanting to know if they caught the guy or what so she said she was glued to tv coverage and everything like that so by january 1993 she was in a patient's house uh here working as a home health aide when a breaking news update came on the television screen she thought it was maybe about lisa's case so she paid attention she learned it was another local case that was unfolding here reporters were interviewing a man that said his infant son had been abducted oh she said oh my god she told her patient i know that guy the father who was on the news was a guy named gary shara s-c-h-a-r-a who she used to date when they were students at long meadow high school in 1986 so he's a young man too yeah same thing um now by the way uh this woman here noell her brother is an fbi agent okay uh actually one of the agents that worked the boston marathon bombing as well oh is that right yes so that's interesting now gary gary's born in 1971 we'll talk about here now he uh they talk about this woman here noell said she remembers for seeing gary and his junior year their junior year he was fit in athletic he or she used to run track and um she was much faster than him she remembered she had just moved or he had just moved to the area from california and didn't have many friends uh but they apparently had a mutual love of agatha christy novels like most high school like most high school junior boys loves agatha christy i read a bunch of them but it wasn't it was because that's all that was there that's that's what was there no he loves them goes out and seeks them out riveted and they ended up going out for a while because of this because obviously agatha christy will bring you together agatha christy got him late got him a fucking blowjob can you imagine believable now gary's got an interesting back story he was an orphan foster home to foster home and then adopted as a at a young age here um i guess his adopted adopted parents had taken custody of him as a small child after he went to multiple foster homes in california and the family eventually moved to massachusetts for his high school years and that's when she met him here now his inner circle of friends said that he wasn't like a cool guy quote unquote gary pretty hard to be when you grew up in foster homes well then not only that he's into dungeons and dungeons and dragons which we've talked about um before and also really really into batman really super into batman the comic book oh okay yeah the comic books because back then you only had the adam west batman yeah and the comic books that's it there was no there wasn't a cool batman floating around out there yeah cool batman didn't start so 88 or 89 but he thought of himself like batman because he was an orphan his parents were killed so in his mind he and batman of the same origin story and he tells everybody that he acts like he's bruce wayne he says he's bruce wayne but but poor yeah he's like entry level job bruce wayne minimum wage bruce bruce minimum wayne is what he's called he's the penguin is what he is yes what he thinks he's batman he wears batman shirts all the time and this is as he's an adult too he's always wearing a batman t-shirt so when 89 rolled around it must have been like heaven for this guy yeah finally all the bat merchandise is available but they said he was a likeable guy you know decent guy not a not a weirdo or anything he's into sports was decently athletic although he never joined any organized teams in high school but you can get him to play some pickup basketball or something he wasn't a spaz or anything he's his friend said nothing you'd ever consider weird he didn't smoke cigarettes didn't drink to access didn't use drugs which is weird in massachusetts yeah it's pretty bizarre to grow up at that time in massachusetts it's a not drink booze and smoke cigarettes is a little bizarre i'm going to be honest with you he graduated in long meadow high school in 1987 and he married a woman named Joyce McDonald but they will have quite a rocky rocky marriage here a little bit about Joyce because you got to know first you don't know why now but you need to know a little about Joyce's background sure she came from a family of 10 kids oh boy that moved around all the time because their father was a freelance organ and piano business consultant oh Jesus i've no we might as well be a shoe cobbler what the where's the where's the market for that the consultant and move the family from state to state i guess what all the piano consulting was yeah there's one that sells every year you got to get to that state where it sells how would you know you need an organ and piano business consultant because you bought an old church yeah does he set up pianos does he help them figure out how to sell pianos is he tuned pianos repair i don't know um but gary is always working customer service jobs and yeah just there's got to be a lot of school district work you know what i mean because that's where the pianos in a win yes see they don't care if those are tuned yeah yeah yeah it's just some woman with a teacher that just bangs around on it that's not real great but she makes sounds happen and gary sometimes he works like day job sometimes night jobs he had a job at champions sports bar and spring field and storotown tavern and wild apples cafe yeah you know just bounces around um anyway a week after noel sees gary on tv actually not even a week a few days he calls her what out of the blue gary calls her and asks her out to dinner she's like what about your kids isn't your kid abducted yeah i just saw you on the news is everything cool with that i want to chillies not really so weird want to go to wild apples i fucking i get a discount used to so she's thought it was weird but she was like wow they hadn't seen each other since high school but she remembered you know she always liked him and they didn't have a bad breakup he didn't do anything wrong so just you know kid shit so she said yeah what the hell i'll meet him a few days later at a place in chickpea historical restaurant in banquet hall named collegiate court in chickpea she said when gary walked in he was still tall and thin and when they started to talk she just realized he seemed like the same kind of shy guy she knew in high school the same nice guy everything was great uh during dinner he pulled out his wallet and showed a photo of his infant son yeah this is my missing son she said oh he said yes gonna say is she well she should be showing it to everybody yeah who can possibly see it it shouldn't even be put away yet it's always be carrying he should have like a shirt with his picture on it like in the wire when someone gets killed and yeah you know so she says oh he's so cute um i think it's awful that he's been abducted i truly hope you're both reunited soon why are we sitting here why are you out looking for your son this is nuts so noelle said she felt sympathy for him uh and she knew that he was trying to rekindle the romance but she was a little you know reluctant to get involved with him again because she thought this is the best she thought at the moment he's got a lot of baggage you know abducted son and all but then she's like i don't know he's got a lot going on for me that's kind of too much wow was was smart dad out dating i don't think he was in the in the dating pool probably not so a month later the mystery of the abduction was solved when police found his son alive and well oh where with his mother with the boy's mother Joyce what bird Joyce piano consultant's daughter yeah apparently she just took the baby and went to Seattle now this will make sense in a moment she did not have custody of this child as a matter of fact Gary had full custody this is a kidnapping um yeah so then this is like okay well at least it's not somebody else abducting somebody so at the same time though now though this you know the ex-wife here Joyce is talking to the cops saying she needs to talk to them about something the cops back in an hour and whatever the fuck it is here amaran amaran amway back in amway massages it's yeah so the the Joyce the wife told her attorney that she suspected Gary may have murdered Lisa so i was trying to get away from him she said you know that murder case in the from the store there i think he did it she said anytime news came out anytime any news came out he would be glued to the television hmm but that's so did everybody in town that's the problem with that they were like well that's not that weird everybody does that my the guy was one of the cops said like my brother and father do that too it doesn't mean they did it yeah and the investigators like yeah i uh i'm investigating this and i'm glued to it too yeah i'm just reporting all the shit i already know and i know more it's getting i know more than i'm telling him um she also the attorney also said he needed to know every single little detail about the murder and progress of the case and catching the murder okay it seems like a local story that a lot of people would be interested in Joyce also knew that Gary had been unaccounted for during the time of the murder oh and that he returned late that night home with scratches on his hands and no explanation for his whereabouts uh oh that's interesting um yeah she said he kept came home in the middle of the night that night when she went missing and Joyce asked him about you know where the fuck you been dickhead we have a new baby and all this shit or not not at the time but she was probably pregnant and he couldn't give her a good explanation about where he'd been she said he'd seemed all amped up that night too in the middle of the morning and she noticed cuts on her on his hands and so she called her sister right i don't know why she called her sister or her own sister but she did but she said everybody liked Gary um he's a tall guy has no record is a good father to his baby so the cops are like i don't get it like we're not getting yeah this guy's a creep or he's had any past this one and an ex-wife and ex-husband feud and she's just making wild-ass accusations huge accusations um then she said well he does do weird stuff in the bedroom okay she said outside the bedroom he might be totally normal but inside she said he always pushed the envelope sometimes would hold a knife to her throat as part of role-playing games which that's that's a weird game i don't like that at all that's a strange game i don't i don't like crime games like that i don't like i don't like we're any accident like i slip a lot you know that's the other thing i can i'm clumsy i'm fucking clumsy that kind of shit that's like richie apriel and janice when janice goes i mean he unloads the gun most of the time most of the time a lot of times i can't even keep this thing inside there so i'm not pretending i'm raping him we're not doing any of that i'm not doing that so what does that make me what's my fantasy i'm a monster no do you know where your box of old home movies is when was the last time you made sure the box they're in isn't too hot damn or moldy not to alarm you but all of that old media breaks down over time and if not preserved it will be lost forever that's where legacy box comes in legacy box is the simplest and easiest way to convert your recorded media to digital and with legacy boxes save your tape sale you can easily access those memories and protect them forever for only nine dollars a tape here's how it works load legacy box with your old tapes film and pictures and send it back you'll get it back on a thumb drive or a cloud ready to watch and easy to share it's so simple it's like magic don't let this summer's heat age your videotapes film reels and fade your photos visit legacy box.com/wondery to shop their nine dollar tape sale that's legacy box.com/wondery to unlock this incredible offer if you're a new parent a bad day means you either run out of coffee diapers patience or all of the above stocking up on cold brew and deep breaths are all you but at least hello bellows got your baby's butt covered hello bellow believes all families deserve premium affordable baby products named best diaper subscription by new york magazine and winner of the 2022 good housekeeping parenting award hello bellow will keep you well stocked on dipes and wipes go to hello bellow.com/wondery to get 30% off your first customized bundle and a full-size freebie product of your choice that's hello bellow.com/wondery to start bundling with 30% off your first order don't forget that's hello bellow.com/wondery. Sorry. I don't want to accidentally hurt you. No, it's the other thing. A lot of times I'm accidentally doing things right. I'm not going to fuck this up and yeah everything's going great and I stab you in the carotid artery that's not good so yeah anyway she she's very suspicious she said that would happen and they play role-playing games and maybe this was you know further yeah she also said that in august of that year four months after the murder they had a big fight and that the long metal police had visited their home okay so she's thinking you know she said Joyce was hiding in a bathroom this is what the police said Joyce was hiding in the bathroom and refused to come out she said through the door that she was fine and didn't need medical help but she wouldn't come out. Police records say this this is from a cop quote I arrived and spoke with mr. Shara he stated he went to lil peach with his wife I assume that's a restaurant yeah when they were coming home they had a fight he dropped her off at the hill near Barbara Lane and then proceeded home he dropped her ass off get the fuck out she said did you stop the car and he said all right fuck out then that's what happened I'm locked go ahead. A few minutes later mrs. Shara came in the house screaming her blouse was torn and she had a few scrapes on her side she wouldn't let her husband see her that's that's her story that's his story that she kind of know man I don't know what happened she came in I tried to speak to her through the door of the bathroom she stated she was fine and that nothing happened I asked to see her and that she stated that she didn't want to see anybody she stated she was fine and didn't want any medical treatment I advised mr. Shara that if he finds anything else out to contact the department if you find out you beat the shit out of your wife let us know please so then a few months later in November 1992 that's when the couple split up and the court awarded Gary custody of the son this is because Joyce is and everybody says this her family friends is a raging alcoholic raging alcoholic like that's usually the only way mom's losing custody is that she's got a dependency on something she didn't even fight the decision yeah she's a mess she's she was probably too drunk to fill out the paperwork so she didn't show up because she was in a stupor you never know so then January 1993 she got her mission for a non-custodial parent visit with her son who wasn't even two years old she put them both in a cab and they went to the airport and went to Seattle where she got an apartment near her mother and disappeared from everybody incredible so that's who we're talking about so through her attorney she makes the claim that she thinks Gary killed Lisa saying that he had an unusual obsession like we said now the the Agawom police never heard of him before the long metal police went to the house once but they never heard of this fucking guy he has no criminal record there's no evidence of him being linked to any crime ever so they were like oh shit and that by the way they said the cops said they take it more seriously but they said since the beginning of the investigation detectives were flooded with tips from ex-wives and former girlfriend saying their boyfriend husband and it's sometimes it's spiteful and sometimes they actually think that they're like oh my god i dodged a bullet yeah right and this guy you know he did this weird shit and i didn't realize it till now and that's what they do so they said that they basically detectives placed these allegations into that category of look into it but you know it's an ex type of deal also she kidnapped a kid so she looks like she's an alcoholic who took a kid three thousand miles from home she's a dick and might be trying to get custody of the kid right so i may be an alcoholic kidnapper but he's a fucking rapist murderer rapist murderer yeah that's what it may sound like denim tear and rapist murderer so they talked to her her family and even her own family said i wouldn't take much of what she said seriously did you smell a breath yeah her family said long history of alcoholism and at least one relative said that she was uh she was convinced that her relative was just being a quote crazy drunk like always oh boy so this is you know can't believe her there's no um no court or police records indicating that Gary mistreated their son or wife in fact he was awarded custody so interesting now the ex-wife says but but but but but but i get that you're saying that yes it might have been he could have been anywhere else on earth that night but you don't understand he gave me this oh and she presents a music box thing it's a carousel with a blue horse in it that plays music and she said it's he gave me this that night he came home late with this they sell these at brittney the understand they fucking sell these here boy so this is fucked up he told her that a little old lady with gray hair had sold it to him and she said she had no reason to doubt the story but now adding two and two and four and six and fucking all this together we're getting word calvert multiplied by jack Daniels multiplied by by bidders equals fucking yeah and blades to my throat i'm not not real i don't like it yeah so this music box that's that night he came home with this shit how weird is that um but gary's attorney said they're going through a nasty divorce and custody battle and she's out of her fucking mind by the way do we mention she's a huge alcoholic smeller bratt so they said the cop said at this point we take it as far as we can and barring anything else coming in we don't have enough to get a search warrant or a subpoena to get gary in and have him give us our dna so they don't have any way to compel him to do this they have a an ex they have a hundred other people saying my ex-husband did it so can't what the fuck so the same collection of police reports um here they talk about um they talk about it basically there are people there are people in her family here um her mother Joyce's mother gary's wife's mother said that you know he's she's a recovering alcoholic you she's transitioning um and back to her her surname she wants a divorce and all this you she's struggled with alcohol abuse but she's not like crazy so you might be able to believe her take some of it yeah as the years go by though we find some real weird stuff that she does um really at one point in 1998 she's shit face drunk uh shit face drunk and locks herself out of her apartment in seattle sure that happens she attempted she lives on the fourth floor and attempted to scale the balconies leading to her apartment drunk and clung to a railing as her elderly father who lived in the same building tried to get her back in off the porch is there and couldn't do it and she fell to the ground and suffered horrible injuries but survived wow yes they said she was drunk she flailed she said she said she spent eight months in a medically induced coma at a specialty hospital she laid out her fucking head yeah she came out of it but had all kinds of injuries and was always in pain she kept drinking and taking pain medication and isolating herself from her family uh Joyce would eventually die in alone in her apartment from alcohol related problems in 2014 but she basically just added pain meds to her roster of shit now now she's an alcoholic who also takes them so october 27th 1993 unsolved mysteries gives ten minutes to Lisa's disappearance good after it robert stack ten minute uh you know segment here and they say that it raised new questions and offered new details they said that um tons of tips came in but nothing really added up to anything then the second airing of it march 10th 1994 yelled it yielded basically no leads whatsoever the only thing they had was it kept coming in that the boyfriend fucked his roommate and the father covered it up because he's a detective because that is a fun story yeah that's a real it's a fun one that's it's a go into i mean it's ridiculous you want it to be true just for the one store yeah just do just because it's fun 1995 they have another vigil 1996 police identified two suspects based on a psychological profile developed by fbi agents great the news comes after detectives macy and anthony melone traveled to uh quantico to and spent three days briefing ten agents on evidence from the case that leads nowhere by the way nice pro they say the profiles is very vague yeah it's a vague profile is a lot of them are it's holding walking in the room and go we're looking for a black male no we're looking for yeah fuck looking for a white male 30s oh well that'll that's everybody so july first 1996 there's friends they have a big golfing day to raise money for her memory to do scholarships and all that 140 people played gotten a golf tournament here it's the lisa zigert memorial fund and it raised about four thousand dollars yeah they got a golf tournament so they're still doing that got drunk and had a nice day and nothing else had a blast well while that was happening detectives were trying to get a better profile they said they laid out all their evidence of the crime and uh they said shortly after she was killed the fbi did a profile on her killer but the information then was also vague but they said in those three years profiling has gotten better yeah so let's try again as we need better evidence that's all it there's just no evidence we have evidence yeah we're missing physical right we're missing stuff yes exactly 1997 they're still not given up uh they say they work the case there's our cops that say they work the case daily really yeah in this town there's not a lot of unsolved murders bopping around so they got to do it they review old information tracking down new information uh here the police refused to release names of several suspects they continue to investigate um lawyers for a convicted rapist named Ronald C Harrison said he was the subject of inquiries uh but he was cleared a year ago there uh they said by the way during the uh vigil they release white balloons and all these vigil i guess because she pumped up balloons i think okay so let's litter in her on let's yeah let's let's send rubber let's let's kill a bunch of birds in her eye so in 2000 there's there's been a reward now there is a hundred thousand dollar reward that was posted in 1999 okay uh the it was the Berkshire power company announced the reward on the seventh anniversary of her disappearance and they said maybe a hundred grand will get somebody to come forward no hope yeah they said you're trying not to get too enthusiastic or hopeful because there's a let down a lot of times but we're hoping that's what the d said Diane uh at least his mother somebody gets that news to Joyce that'll buy a lot of a lot of George decal oh man so much decal Joyce could be she could get pickled and decal that time she was dead by 2001 if she gives us no shit so d says the highs and lows can get you uh i can imagine if you're someone's missing in that oh my god do they find something no they didn't that's got to be exhausting after years she went on to say i think i was more surprised that more information didn't come in i don't know if somebody knows something but maybe feeling scared to come forward um they said even if you think it's insignificant you never know what little piece of information can pull the whole thing together that's true yeah 2001 mark pfow there fow or however you say his name jail who's been working this case here uh he still takes all the calls he tries to like collate all the fucking tips and get everything in order and all the leads have led nowhere and he had been in 2001 been promoted to detective sergeant and now he's taking over the case completely and he's determined to revive it he said because the original lead investigator retired and uh he said now he's going to try to maybe fresh eyes he can stir it out um yeah at the time by the way when the guy was on the force and when this happened they didn't even have a computer in this police force there was not a computer at the police department in 1992 you got to raise your taxes i mean not one you guys got it he got to have shit everything was typed and logged by hand oh my god can you imagine so 2002 the cops want to talk to gary they want to get him out of the way here okay they questioned him and when his wife brought it up ten years ago but he just was like i don't know what you're talking about and that was that so now this is 2002 he comes into the station because they requested he come in to talk to him he comes in wearing a trench coat and gloves and refuses to touch anything keeps his hands in his pockets the whole time inside gloves dude that is the most suspicious thing you've ever done weirdest thing you've ever fucking done ever he might as well have been jerking off under a trench coat that would have been less suspicious so he had declined an earlier request to sit down for an interview but this time he agreed so he shows up like we said he's trench coated gloved and and hands in pockets but very polite and cordial yeah very polite and cordial uh but they said tell you what dude we can get this over with and you'll never hear from us ever fucking again yeah DNA sample babes spit in this cup yeah one swipe on that cheek boy we are we will never hear from us again or you'll only hear from us ever again that's one of the only people either nobody or always yeah which if you didn't do some you go fuck yeah get scared over with i want to talk to you guys he said no i will not give you a DNA sample he said why not and his excuse is the most wonderful excuse i've ever heard why i don't want it my DNA sample it's amazing is it is it because i don't want you to frame me for a bunch of things no it's war it's way dumber than that because that is possible you think i mean who knows he said i'm scared of being secretly cloned he's afraid he's afraid they're going to clone him i heard about this sheep dolly i don't want you guys making more of me he's afraid they're going to make a bunch of Gary's that's what you can't make more of me because i'm a rapist and murderer that'll be so bad no one wants that oh my god that's like making more of those terminator robots don't do it gotta kill the one and get it over with so he was scared of being secretly cloned secretly we're gonna like the police have like they're different rooms then they're like nobody go back there that's only that's the clone room everybody out i don't even walk through suspects i don't want to be walking through a hannah for picking up apples and then see me i don't want to grab the same apple as me i can't do it so he'd spent the last two decades basically just uh or last decade just being working jobs working in the restaurant business customer service at a rental car agency at Bradley international airport oh no his friends though because they talk to people that know him describe him as very docile and quote nicest guy you'll ever want to meet nicest guy in the world everybody says that about him real gentle guy nice guy 2003 they're still working it they say they have a three-foot high file on the case at this point really all the people interview to hundreds of people so it's crazy they say that they meet with other law enforcement officials tensed or twelve times a year working on cold cases like this they found themselves reviewing funeral photos in the archives of the newspaper a couple months before this based on a tip from an unsigned letter like look in there for someone who doesn't belong i was there yeah but they said nothing checked out they followed every lead couldn't find any also 800 people that's crazy to look that's so many hey gonna look through that and then how are you going to say that people just didn't show up because they were because they're curious and serious yeah and this is the social event of the fucking season let's be honest here let's be realistic so um the one cop said whenever we drive by that shop where she worked or see one of Lisa's friends we think of her and that goes for all of us they said that though uh the days after the abductions and slayings grew into weeks and then months and then years there's still answers to be had we can solve this thing so one cop said i think that the answers are in front of us it's just a matter of getting that break someday absolutely someday 2004 there's trying to get an amendment passed actually this is de lisa's mother yes i'm campaigning for the passage of a victim's rights amendment for the u.s. constitution oh i that's yeah well let's read it here this is from the republican that same newspaper armed with information kits about the amended parts of the constitution that benefit those accused or convicted of crimes diane zigert has been calling and visiting lawmakers and law enforcement officials to gain support for the resolution now pending in the u.s. senate she has been visiting groups of senior citizens asking for their support recently she mailed 120 letters to members of the massachusetts delegation signed by constituents who support the constitutional change there are 15 amendments for the defendant she says the defendant or the accused is mentioned 23 times in the u.s. constitution and the victim is not mentioned once that's because there's nobody coming after the victim that way it's not that you can't that's a victim's rights are supposed to be a given you know i mean like that yeah but it's the it's it's because that's because of the persecution of the of from England that's why they did that yes it's what i mean it's to keep people being persecuted right but this basically i don't know what they're going for because what are they saying you have to investigate their killings they're doing that already so it's like yeah it's like saying make murder illegal yeah it is they should certainly make hurting people against the law it's very yeah but i understand i can see what she's i get the point of it but i don't want the apraxia application of it there is no solution to that even if there's an amendment they they worked as hard as they can they're trying to find it like there's no way to go oh there's a constitutional amendment fuck i better interview that guy again i don't think anybody's doing that but homicide detectives love solving homicides they love it yeah it's the whole thing that they do what they did is fucked with the wrong family and this lady is not going to stop until there's some sort of resolution i get it i don't and i can't blame her plus they've never found the killer at this point so you're just looking for something yeah fucking do to make some progress i just totally get it punches into the windmill she hates it yeah i this is this is a nightmare i can't imagine that can embrace Dover but i can't imagine having your daughter missing for not missing but the killer missing for ten years it's unsolved ten uh uh your daughter missing for three days and you and you find her near a holiday that matters a lot to Catholics and that and so that ruins that for her for the rest of her life and destroyed and this and there's clearly a fucking monster yeah in the wind for ten years it's fucking one thing if she was found like in the river and there's no evidence and they couldn't find or something but they have dm all kinds of hey man like that's got to be so frustrating uh she goes on to say we realize that amending the constitution isn't done lightly it's actually extremely difficult we went through all the steps you have to do but it was deemed necessary to amend it for the accused well that's the bill of rights that was the yeah and i have no argument and there's more later and i have no argument with any of those rights they are there for a reason the victim's rights amendments does nothing in any way to diminish or remove any of those rights that have been granted i don't understand i still don't understand she wanted to be guilty and so proven innocent as i was she i don't understand i don't get what the amendment what they're trying to do they never passed anyway they never got an amendment that's a that's a huge deal the past amendment and and to victims rights we all have them anyway like given right away before you're a victim so especially socially and societally it's all about that so i was looking for 2005 families get in a bit impatient and i don't fucking blame them yeah i don't close it very important like we said she's going for amendments she's going for scholarships she's trying to get anything she says that she is um she's hoping a member of the licensed private detectives association of massachusetts will reach out to her family like they have with other missing people and things like that she said that um you know she said it's not that i don't appreciate the efforts of state police detectives but it's been almost 13 years excellent pointy not that i don't appreciate you trying but i don't know if your effort is one thing yeah i don't know if you have the skill or talent to do this at this point so i'm still a broncos fan i love watching them but it's been years it's been yeah it's it's a long fucking time yeah not a lot of not a lot of w's happening right now nope it's it's rough at this point in time we're trying quarterback since it's not working it's a struggle so she goes on to say she understands budget cuts and dozens of other cases keep investigators busy but also you know she'd like to find out who killed her fucking daughter because you know who wouldn't she says but who knows what someone else might find fresh eyes also so 2008 police question oh my god question gary again 15 years 16 years after this murder um they said anything to say for yourself gary he said i didn't do it i know that much um he said i didn't do it he said i don't really need read newspapers you know they said have you been seeing what's going on and he said i only really scanned the headline so i don't know and um he was sitting well away from the table in the interview room again would not touch anything and refused to even touch the bottle of water they put before him hilarious wouldn't touch anything they said again extremely polite extremely cordial they said though that his attire and behavior seemed odd let's see wearing a fucking a trench coat with his hands his pockets that's his getting interrogated outfit he was wearing just like a Siegfried and Roy outfit it was really weird shoulder pads winding yeah shoulder pads all thing it was very strange yeah they said uh one police trooper said on the video he looked like someone who was trying to avoid giving dna like i'm gonna sit back here yeah um now when they're sitting him down one of the cops says i think this may be the first time we're getting your side of the story as to why she's linking you to the homicide back here yeah and gary said that he had no idea why his ex-wife would claim that thing other than the divorce and he said when she said that and you guys asked me quote i went what what are you talking about like what do you what the this is new first he said i was trying to fuck your sister and now this this is crazy i don't want to deal with you so gary walked out of the station again they said how about some dna he said cloning technology is even better now no it's outrageous it's great they'll make a hundred of me absolutely not can't do it no can do chief so uh 2009 by the way this is kind of neat students with visual impairments will get some help from the lisa m zigert family which has donated a software program fantastic valued at seven hundred ninety five dollars diane uh the mother said that the donations one of many that have come from a fund established in 1992 uh she said they've given away about seventy five thousand dollars since the funds been established that's fantastic that's fucking great that's why he's still doing work that's great right still helping kids which is nice they're trying to do something though um so the mom said this was kind of special it was donated in the memory of the father of a dear friend of ours who knew lisa and he became blind in his later years this helps visually impaired and the picture in the paper is a kid with glasses on look at this sitting two inches from the screen typing that's i can't see shit it might as well there might be might as well be a bubble coming out of her mouth fuck i really so hard that's huh and i see you when you're doing shout outs uh 2010 unsolved mysteries they get their own episode babe the whole day oh yeah 30 damn minutes of this whole thing yeah this is the non-robert stack this is the new one yeah because he's next dad because he's obviously he died uh this one generates hundreds of completely false leads oh this way this wastes the cops time for months yeah this whole thing because they have to chase down a relief and they're all a load of shit so it's all a lot of people go i think it's my my brother my cousin my boyfriend my ex boy talk to add yeah if you talk if you talk to fucking old cornhole head over there now 2013 member noelle number of friend noelle there she saw me tell you about his kid yeah she was working uh doing shifts at several teaching hospitals in boston uh and during that time she met a surgeon fell in love and got married that a girl so she didn't really see gary anymore except at a high school reunion or there was a a reunion dinner that one of her friends planned that wasn't an official high school reunion but she ran into a mare but she married a surgeon has a house down the cape she's doing great she's doing just fine what's a lobster than oyster in her life she saw gary at an event in 2013 and said he was much heavier now really like close to 300 pounds how it went sad and uh he has diabetes now as well which isn't helping yeah and um yeah she said that you know she's married now and hadn't talked to him in a while so she just gave him a quick howdy ho how you doing there hello then by march 2015 she's in the middle of a divorce with her surgeon husband she doesn't go in so well anymore no but she's getting that house down the cape well yeah maybe if she didn't have a prenup there yeah which 2010 yeah uh he might have had a prenup on her and those houses aren't worth near as much as they were a few years ago no no he wrote her a dear john letter and told her that he was ending the marriage he said quote i love you as a friend but not as a wife oh shit i'm not going to live for years in a bad marriage or relationship again oh no so i've been married once that didn't work thought the second times a charm and i said you know what fuck this a letter is fine letter is fine so noelle isolated herself for several months until her friend invited her to another reunion dinner from high school she took it as an opportunity to see some people and you know go out of the fucking house and maybe not be so weird so she sees gary again she said gary had lost a whole bunch of weight and looked great now wow got his shit together so she said they had dinner together and toward the end he wrote his phone number down and gave it to her and said you know i'd like to get together sometime with you yeah so she said all right this is nice somebody's interested in me and she said quote i know gary and his family it's not like meeting some stranger on snapchat i've known this guy since we were 15 years old this is easy things are going great few months of dating she felt that she had met mr fucking the one mr right romantic comedy shit here this is beautiful crazy he had a steady job as a shuttle driver for enterprise rental at the airport not exactly a surgeon but he works he's the mortgages paid or at least rent whatever he works and that's important it's all he loves animals which is big for her she's got to rescue dogs and so she is she needs a guy who's really good with animals he's really good with animals and especially good with children as well okay she said at a birthday party for her friends two-year-old son gary played with the kid the whole day she thought he might be overcompensating because he didn't have contact with his own son who was living in seattle with relatives and when she asked him gary claimed that those relatives had poisoned his son against him gary was an attentive boyfriend they said she'd get sick he'd be there with a bowl of soup in no time fucking ready to go they decorated christmas cookies over holiday it's a dream it's a dream it's a dream even gary even drove one of her pets to the animal hospital after the dog had a seizure and collapsed oh and then and then comforted no well when no well decided she had to put the dog down because it was very ill later on nice clam chowder she said that when they were hugging about this she noticed he had tears streaming down his face as well he was crying too he's over someone else's dog that's what a nice guy he's in he's also like i said really into batman really in the back like hugely into even more now oh in the 2010s he's like this has been my time i've been waiting for this forever 30 years of batman she said he had a collection of batman t-shirts all the batman t-shirts and whenever they went out to dinner he always wore a batman shirt that time i always have to get my best bat clothes on i got to go back to the bat the bat cave and getting like oh my god his bat shirts he's got a cat so she did notice some odd behavior number one she thought that gary suffered from anxiety around crowds when they went to the boston marathon together two years after the bombings she recalled that gary became uneasy when he when he saw how tight the security was lined up along the route yeah post bombing she was a little taken aback when he got upset and refused to walk through the police checkpoint she said that he was just pale with fear so as time went on she went to she started to wonder why was it crowds or what's going on one day she recruited gary to to drive her a wheelchair bound patient to the girl's senior prom it was a young girl and we will share will you drive her to the senior prom and show for her there so this is a country club after the dance the team struggled with the ramp and nearly fell out of the chair whoa gary gary rushed to the girls aid and saved her from basically catapulting out of the chair and onto a sidewalk he grabbed her at the last second and saved but they called 9-1-1 when the police arrived though because it was it was protocol of if you have a patient you have to call mine on one if there's any incident right to get her checked out they called 9-1-1 so ambulance and police arrived police arrived and she said no else that she turned around and gary is nowhere to be found couldn't find him what she later learned that he hid behind the transportation van while officers interviewed her about the incident now is it because he's been interviewed multiple times he's just a little freaked out are they afraid he's gonna try to clone him right yeah also he's not into sex really no she said he's really not interested in sex maybe she should put like a like joker makeup on maybe that'd be different maybe he get into it then have you tried dressing like uh uh Michelle fighter well she said at first i thought oh my god it must be me was i not dressed right did it does this cat suit fit poorly what's going on did i not look right she said she thought it was strange but she enjoyed his companionship and didn't want to end the relationship because she liked them yeah she accepted the fact that he saw her as a kind of a platonic girlfriend they just kind of sat and watched tv together that's why my ex-husband did so whatever why not so she had someone to spend time with and that was fine and she thought that gary seemed like a safe bet so why fuck with it he doesn't drink he doesn't smoke they said she said that his idea of getting wild was wearing a t-shirt with a bangle tiger print on it like that was like not a swap meet shirts not a city bank not a bangles shirt a slot meet shirt instead of his normal yeah Batman and for him like like going real crazy was rocking out to Billy Joel wow yeah he loved the sub which i fuck that's great yeah i love Billy Joel it's a rock god jeez i want to rock out to Billy Joel but he loved the song innocent man and would often hum it for hours at a time what an innocent man who's favorite Billy Joel song is innocent man no but he's favorite song not jana not seeing some Italian restaurant not fucking any of that shit no not down east or Alexa nothing you're going with innocent man innocent man that's so she wanted gary to meet her family and gary was interested in meeting the family especially wanted to meet her famous brother rick who was the fbi agent who he led the investigations of the mac boston marathon bombings not just was a part of the team she said he's told her your brother the fbi agent i got to watch out for him you know like joking around like oh boy you know you mess up around that guy oh thank you so gary charmed her whole family including fbi leading investigator brother thought he was a great guy they met on easter at easter dinner and the family saw after the first marriage ended for noel poorly they said this is great gary's the perfect guy for her she seemed so happy 2016 no yes police are now knocking out cold cases like nobody's business because we got dna yeah to a real family thing too is working out they can do that she can go on the internet and find you yeah so they meant they were able to put together a digital composite image of the killer yeah some basics based on his genetic material they said a white man of european extract with some freckling dark eyes black or brown hair that's what they mainly found they said all evidence and leads previously developed in this case are now being evaluated in the view of this new forensic development because that's they know that for sure that's genetics yeah that's gene that's dna that's what shows up on the ladder that's it they said with the mission renewed here they said that they began pouring over voluminous stacks of case files focusing their attention on 11 suspects who matched this digital composite and had refused to provide a dna sample in question there's 11 of those people that hit the middle of that venn diagram 11 that's a lot so after taking the case to a grand jury they received court orders granting permission to force any unwilling suspect to provide a dna sample whoa oh no she's typing how let's go yep authority sent the dna sample they collected at the crime scene to a lab and conducted conducted the phenotyping or phenotyping which determines the physical characteristics now so they test all the proteins and get the characteristics that come up for each get that's so it's amazing crazy yeah that's cool that's pretty goddamn cool yeah they're gonna be like and he likes cocoa puffs pretty soon they're gonna get very specific yeah with a penchant for cookie crisp who just loves it i'm telling you that's what it is it's cookie crisp gary is on this list of course he'd been repeatedly questioned doesn't want to be cloned if we remember correctly yeah he's one of 11 suspects so they uh they want to do that they said we had to strategize about how could someone commit such a heinous crime and not do it again and not get caught so they said it might have because they ran this his the offenders data g at dna through the database and it's coming up in no other unsolved crimes or solved crimes never done never again either that or was more careful about didn't leave they read them all and nobody's ever found them yeah yeah got better at what they were doing so they said so the focus became the refusals the vast majority of people we contacted were cooperative and had no problem providing bna samples yeah gary is working for the Bradley international airport enterprise rent a car at this point in time here um he is also working at hoffbrow hoffbrow house which is a german restaurant as well yeah so september 13 2017 they visit his residence in west Springfield he's got a roommate in a two-bedroom apartment at the front door it's a two-family home it's just like the house the house number two of our thing they have the first floor yeah um and then the second floor is another place the man says that gary's not home but i'll tell him you stop by sure later that day uh gary called noelle and asked if he could stay at her place for the night well with a heat around here yeah those things are getting hot i gotta go in the lamb here uh but she he had never spent the night at her home during the week while he was working the school night why would you come over yeah he told her the traffic around his street was intense because of the hordes of visitors flocking to the gates of the big e-fair but we talked about and things to do damn brothers all see why do you think people come on fucking ludicrous is here fucking flavor slave is in the house man he worried about being late to work the next morning so he wanted to stay there he showed up at noelle's house 20 minutes later they watched tv eight dinner the next morning she woke up before dawn and got dressed for work while he slept and uh you know gave him a kiss goodbye and that was that later that day she returned home at 430 and noticed that gary wasn't there but his wallet watch and a handful of coins were on the kitchen counter huh which guys grabbed their wallet and watch when they leave somewhere she thought that's weird his car isn't in the driveway why wouldn't he take his wallet with him that's strange so she dress go mother fucker yeah she tried to call his cell phone but it was shut off so she couldn't even leave a message so she went upstairs took a shower changed out of her work clothes walked downstairs then noticed a clipboard belonging to gary on the coffee table attached to it was a letter with noelle's name at the top i'm not reading another fucking letter she thought she thought it was another dear john letter she was like are you fucking kidding me man i don't even warrant talking to face-to-face this sucks what have i done so then she finds out oh this is way worse than a dear john letter what is it quote you are going to find out some awful things about me today oh no today they will tell you i abducted raped and murdered a young woman approximately 25 years ago it's all true oh my god all of it i had no intention of killing her when i grabbed her but events spun out of my control she fought that's what it was yeah that was it um and in the eyes of the law it's all the same yeah what is it no i was just going to rape her and i thought oh he was jerry he was just going to rape her i mean it wasn't even mean to kill her that's all yeah it's the same if it's worse it's fucking worse if that's why he did it yeah and in the eyes of the law it's all the same i have never regretted anything so much i always knew one day it would catch up to me and now it has i received a text from my roommate last night that the state police were at the house with important papers for me that will be a warrant to take dna and that will send me away for life i have never really been or felt normal from a very young age i was fascinated by abduction and bondage what yep i could never keep it too far from my mind for long on that fateful day i let myself do something terrible i've never forgiven myself of that i also never did anything of the like again which is probably true that's if he's bearing his soul right now he's saying he did it i think i believe it and he's not planning on going to jail for it so as we'll find out right i hated what happened i despised myself i thought of turning myself in hundreds of times over the years but i truly am a coward today it will all end i will either take my own life or face the music as it were and then a big fancy g he writes for gary the next two pages are his last will which by the way is not a valid in massachusetts it's a handwritten will at the end holographic will i think they call it also you got a roommate what could there be to will hey yeah honestly you what your bedroom set what do you got your ikea dresser the enterprise rental car clerk at the 50s come on man jesus christ so they said that um this he expressed for more so the next two were a last will and testament and a letter to lisa's family oh as well um saying that he could never apologize enough for taking their daughter's life and siblings he said i never expect or deserve your forgiveness but i hope knowing who i am and knowing i am gone will bring you some closure and peace i'm truly sorry ges gary edward char so at first noel doesn't believe this i don't know why you wouldn't believe a murder confession letter he wrote to the family male she said i thought he was having a psychotic breakdown that he'd only imagine that he had committed this heinous crime that he was just pretending that he did this who pretends this who pretends to grape and kill a girl 30 years ago that's the craziest thing i've ever heard in my life is is there perhaps his playlist of innocent man on repeat over and over again come on lady he only but he listens to innocent man he doesn't listen to great and kill that girl decades ago never heard him put that song on once i didn't play a town girl he played innocent man he didn't understand jesus christ so she heads to the police station though um she got into her car and heads heads to the state police barracks in westfield and she's crying and asking to speak with someone working on the lisa zigert case investigators were very stunned because you know she just shows up with this they said they met police said eventually they figured dna would find a killer whether alive or dead or something but they never thought they'd see a confession especially a written one they never thought that whoever keeps it for this long is gonna keep it they're gonna deny it and uh especially to his girlfriend so they interrogate her into the night to make sure she's not nuts basically yeah they ask her hundreds of questions including where the fuck is gary uh she said she's afraid he committed suicide and was hanging from a tree somewhere and then she added at the end of this i still love him very much oh my god no well this fucking noelle good god so then the pafau or fau guy gets a call from state police gets in the squad car goes over to the barracks reads the letters himself and he's like holy fucking shit he said it's him isn't it he turned to them this is the guy this is the fucking guy um they said he said the hairs on your neck are standing up like you knew this was real um it didn't reveal a full confession he didn't go into details but between that and dna pretty good case we got here not bad yeah and so he the detective said i've been around a long time and it seems like he's trying to clear his conscience is what he's trying to do so they said that you know the pafau guy said this is crazy because i'm the one who visited joist mcdonald char is relatives in seattle yeah when they told him that she got a music box like the one soul that britney's there i was there for that i held that fucking music box i had her saying it's him 25 years ago yeah so please have the only great thing joist ever did in her life was that that's it that's that was tried to get your fucking attention man yeah and then she ended up she's dead by now yeah so they still have to find Gary's on the lamp right i don't know where the fuck he is so they and now it's nothing to lose nope but very easy to find because i just ping a cell phone yeah yeah he doesn't know that nope they track him by gps coordinates to stofford springs connecticut okay which is just past it's just past ten p.m when they find his black Honda Civic in the parking lot at johnson memorial hospital the plot thickens yeah no sign of Gary in the car but they do find a note on his dashboard saying to whomever finds my body i apologize for any psychological trauma incurred please call massachusetts state police thank you ges all right where are you carmen san diego this is a nightmare he is unflinchingly polite and cordial i'll give him that i mean honestly yeah he really is a polite cordial guy turns out he is inside the emergency room having his stomach pumped because this complete fucking dildo no way in the most piss poor suicide attempt in the history of the world parking lot took a bunch took a handful of iby prophin what do you think i took a bunch of advil and then in two seconds after he got it down his throat he got terrified of dying and ran into the emergency room once help me save me i just ate 12 advil i just did they're like going crazy okay i mean your blood will be slightly thin and you probably won't have a headache for a couple days i don't know what to tell you your period cramps are gone sir yeah iby prophin you can take large or don't like tylenol if you took a handful of tylenol two days later you drop dead that's not tylenol yeah tylenol is a different type of drug whereas advil is a iby prophin is a different thing completely yeah there's people that do that take a bunch then you drop dead like a day and a half later from tylenol prophin's incredibly safe uh for that you just can't take it every day 25 times a day then you'll get yourself all out yeah you'll get yourself an ulcer it'll fuck your old system so they search his apartment and they search his girlfriend noelle's home um as the officer swarmed her place noelle calls her brother yeah who's the fbi agent who was driving to his corporate security job at pensky corporation he must be retired yeah he's been retired from the fbi and she said gary's under arrest for the murder of lisa ziegert now i have police coming to my house looking for evidence and he told her what the fuck do you want me to do about it he turned his car around to come back but he said he told her he she said what should i do and he said be compliant what the fuck do you think you're gonna let him in you have fbi agents fucking swarming your house what are you supposed to do also that was at christmas last year how did i miss that that's what i'm saying this is a guy fucking leading a huge investigation sat next to a murderer and went great guy finally my sister met somebody nice you found uh uh uh a tiny little bomb juice maker in a boat in a backyard of somebody's house the city is the guy sitting next to you there's a jeans ripping murderer fucking unbelievable so she said of course i'm gonna be compliant i can't believe this is happening how could i have dated him for more than two years without knowing who he really was am i gullible and he told her quote we all like gary i'm trained in this shit i like to do trust me so while they're searching for his shit uh through her house he's or she tells them this is his toothbrush and a full syringe used to treat his diabetes bingo so if you need dna this might be where to get it oh we got him we're all right we got yeah we're good they searched the well under her house as well and including every cereal box in her kitchen cabinet they really searched hard here in the end from the prices when they're looking for the zero i don't know what evidence they're gonna find in a cereal box they're looking for dna evidence there's no other evidence he's not going to have like a selfie of him next to the body hidden in the lucky charms box and it's fucking every week he moves the sock he took off of her and he had to fucking caution box well we're at a fruit loops better move this into the apple jacks the fuck are you talking about very strange oh they have looking for a man in the new box oh man you know that's gonna happen so they end up getting saliva from the toothbrush right and they run it and sure as shit that matches and they said pafao said when we finally put him in a jail cell he sat on the bench leaned up against the concrete wall and just exhaled it was finally over there was no more looking over his shoulder basically they think this tormented this guy for 25 years of being terrified of being caught not so much guilt who knows if it was guilt or just fear of being caught but either way this guy had felt this shit for 25 years the anxiety of it good yeah fuck i hope he wasn't having a great life pulling over dancing the songs and shit fuck him i hope he put on that 150 with fucking shitty food and guilt and fear go yeah so for the next few years too they cycle his dna through the fbi's combined system every week comparing it with all these samples and they've never had one other hit nothing this is it he did it once and said oh god that was horrible never did it again but still once is enough asshole he can't kill a fucking young girl like that that's nuts so noell's mom here d said we will just never know i don't know why he chose her because he won't talk he just he won't say why he just says i did it and that's that you know i did it leave me the fuck alone did she remind him of someone was he angry about something else and just walked into the store all the girls lisa went places with said they never remembered seeing him before so he was not like a common person they showed pictures of him from back then and they went that was one of the background i've never seen him before and he back then too like i saw his high school senior like senior pictures from the yearbook he looks like wallpapers blends right in nothing about him stands out back then um so a relative of gary's who didn't believe his ex wife now um the relative said she's racked with guilt because of she doubted Joyce's story right initially just thinking Joyce is an alkye and she said quote i always thought maybe she was just being a crazy drunk but she wasn't she was right she was trying to save her son's life there it is and she's a crazy drunk those things don't need to be mutually exclusive that's a thing thinking exists at the same time um this is fucked up two days after the arrest noell celebrates her birthday yay happy birthday she receives a bouquet of flowers at her home opens it up and it's from gary he ordered them before he was ever arrested he ordered them yeah he did it ahead of time and already ready to go and so they they came to be reminded of me in 48 hours he he already paid for it so they delivered it even though he was in jail um and she said that she was you know obviously freaked out and just uh she he continued to send her cards and letters during his incarceration she said he went to jail and at that point part of me was still thinking of him as my boyfriend i couldn't make that change in my head that he wasn't then after a few months she went to the jail sat there sat across from him with the telephone through the plexiglass yeah and said you lied to me and to everybody for 25 years i'm going to come back someday and you're going to tell me why you did this you owe me that i think he owes the family that he doesn't know you shit you went out for a year like who cares not only do i deserve it but everyone else who's a part of this nightmare that you've created deserves it the zigert family will never have their daughter back she had a whole life ahead of her and gary just stared blankly at her never said a word she got up and left wow stared at her uh her life is also a little fucked up here um she yeah she said that she maintains a low profile uh doesn't do any media interviews really and uh didn't want to appear in any of his court hearings she also said she's in debt because of her divorce and was terrified that she was going to lose her job because quote who wants a nurse that had dated a murderer or caring for their critically ill child she looks bad by yeah um she also wrote a letter to d to lease his mom and said i know that nothing can never bring your daughter back but i hope that you were at least comforted by the fact that justice has been served and d telephoned her and thanked her for that really for helping the cops you know do this and not being an asshole d said she went to the site of the body dumping just to see what what gary to get him out of her head yeah she said my hair is standing on end right now i can just imagine her being here and the cold and dark screaming and no one can hear her she's injured and someone is tearing at her clothes not someone gary gary yeah her last moments were just awful just to be left here like this it makes me want to vomit i mean what kind of a person does this right gary yeah again is the answer to that uh she said she had to get professional help here um she fell into a deep profession depression she said quote my life is pretty horrible right now but i have my friends and family and without their support i don't even know why i'm here do you said that did no that's no help yeah gary their friends said this is all of his friends said no no this is crazy they even said his interactions with women he was always kind funny gentlemanly chivalrous never weird never creepy yes all of his friends said they could not find a single thing that even in retrospect looked weird yeah not even oh now yeah that's what killed those those guys yeah one friend said nothing inappropriate nothing darkly suggestive nothing out of bounds we've seen gary in a variety of social situations and mixed company in just the guys company at the local watering hole and at no time did we ever catch a whiff of violence or anger toward women no subtly dark jokes no misogynistic tendencies well you fucked up and he knows hey yeah that's maybe that's gonna come up man that raises flags his former boss at the restaurant said he was a good looking kid reasonably good personality reasonably good personality he's very honest this guy if you ever want to know the truth ask this guy he said there was nothing nothing to suggest that he did such a thing now when he first gets arrested in 2017 he pleads not guilty but then by 2019 when trial is about to come he changes his plea to guilty gives up yep and prosecutors this is the first time Lisa's mom has seen the confession letter she hasn't seen it before they finally show her and she said my first reaction to the letter i thought this is absolutely frightening just frightening and it's amazing it didn't happen again but i'm glad he wrote it because it's him saying i did it and him writing it and him signing it that makes it pretty aside from his admitted preoccupation with abduction and bondage no clues and uh d says we will never we just will never know i don't know why he chose her did she remind him of someone we don't know so you never know sentencing comes around you sir yeah may fuck off life without parole yeah you're done it's over yeah uh one of the cops who often went to the cemetery he said to talk to Lisa during the investigation brought a single rose to her grave after gary was caught he said i put a card on it it just said Lisa it's done rest in peace and i put it on her stone because it's done you could have just said that she can't read also that's that's mad creepy for anybody that comes to visit like what's done man that's almost just that's almost just like performative to me yeah you could have just said that finally it's done card sitting on top of a grave stone it's like golly man that's dark that card you know what i mean is that it's done even a netsy can you find that your murderer has finally been apprehended is that a card you get justices served cards so after he sentenced d and this is this is amazing that this woman said this because this d really is a real honest lady that seems to tell you how she feels she said they said do you feel great and she said relieve but also let down oddly she said it's like okay so what do i do now because this whole time it felt like Lisa's been there because she's had a purpose so it's now it's just what now there's nothing what do you do it's almost like this kept her having a purpose she said what do i do now i can't fight anymore for justice for Lisa because now we have that we have that but for so long it consumed a lot of our lives and mine in particular because i was the face of our fight but now we are thinking we'll finally go on a trip somewhere because we won't worry anymore that we'll get some important phone call and have to turn around and come back they don't want to get out or some shit yeah no now she's not but she was worried that before if they ever went away they'd get some update on the case they'd have to come back now here is the thing on the unsolved mysteries page under the comments some people had some good points one is why didn't they do a paternity test with the child with Gary's fucking kid yachty why didn't they ask the ex why hey Joyce since you have access to the kid and think he did it let's see let's get a swipe from your kid why didn't they do that they never mow thou fuck uh whatever yeah pffow you use pffow it's very very fucking interesting great and there's a lot of people who insist there was another person involved hmm don't know why a lot of people right there's a book written called no tomorrow's where this is one of the stories they talk about by Joanne Conner's Wade it's a bunch of uh Massachusetts Northeast cases an abduction murder epidemic it was written in 2006 so before the resolution of it and the only way to get it is on paperback for 23 dollars on amazon so that ain't happening and that everybody is uh Agawom Agawom Agawom Massachusetts and one fucked up hell of a goddamn weird story it's so sad that I mean somebody on the internet just goes why didn't they do this yeah done yeah the whole FBI didn't think of that the whole police department and maybe they did and maybe I don't know maybe she wouldn't allow it why she was trying to put him in there maybe the kid didn't know maybe they got to the kid later and he was an adult already no because the kid was born in like 93 so the kid wouldn't be an adult anytime yeah still 2011 I don't understand it so whatever the fuck it is um wow there you go that's the case if you like the show please tell the world about it to know everyone about it tell social media about it tell your friends about it and of course leave a review on whatever app you're listening on it helps so much give five stars and say something nice it you can't tell you how much that helps the show so we really appreciate when you do that thank you also follow us on social media at small town murder on instagram at small town pod on facebook at murder small on twitter follow us all there shut up and give me murder.com is your website get all your tickets september 20th mini-apolis minnesota get your damn tickets make it our biggest show ever worth the state theater it's big and gorgeous we can't wait to be there do that shut up and give me murder.com also new merch is up all the time there listen to our other two shows crime in sports and your stupid opinions because we're fucking hilarious do that and then if that's not enough for you get patreon more patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all of that anybody five dollars a month or above you get a whole back catalog hundreds of episodes new ones every other week one crime in sports one small town murder this week what you're going to get for crime in sports we're going to talk about this will be very fun the most in-app teams of all time. We'll skip that old buck and ear team we did a whole episode about from the 70s but there's plenty of other losers that are fun to talk about and then we will talk about uh for small town murder a little bit of the lorry valo chad daybell mess there's some specific points we'll talk about that are just fucking nuts we have to we have not touched on that at all and it's and it'll take years to discuss the whole thing we may as well just talk about the scam you can do a whole podcast yeah we'll do this stuff about and we know stuff about the comedian brother and all that shit and and her weird we'll talk about her weird philosophies and stuff patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all that and you get a shout out when you get that all right motherfucking now Jimmy hit me with the names of the most wonderful god people on this earth who have given us money and listened to our shit and keep coming back for more heavy with them right now this week's executive producers are Kurt Burkhardt thank you Kurt that was unbelievably kind or so nice you're a good dude Jason fall it'll love you man I hope you're doing well uh hang in there great going fight the good fight Elena Zemo Sharon Jones Jasper McIntyre and his new bride Annie congratulations Rockstar Rod Campbell in Victoria Australia is fighting his ass off James and uh he updates me from time to time uh on facebook but he is uh he's got a terrible cancer but he's he's honest to Christ beating the mother fuck out of it at 49 and facing it an incredibly brave way good for you Rod it's it's amazing to have you along fuck yeah Brittany Benoit Colquitt also and uh yeah that's the exact you guys are amazing thanks for everything you do other producers this week are Liz Vasquez Peyton Meadows MacKayla Estrada I believe Monge is back is it Monge hey Monge yeah yeah is that okay do we determine that's how you pronounce that I don't know oh I don't know but he's never corrected us on it that's what we say eight years now so yeah it could be Monge I don't know man great guy uh Janice Hill Greg Walsh not George uh Audrey Conway Remy Martin Julie Delano Delano uh Elaine LeRoy Kelly Burton James NARS of NARS of itch yeah that's true Nicholas McComb uh Caleb W Lisa Anderson Linda Strangis Strangies Ryan L Brianna Diageu Diago uh Chloe Noel Fart Tim Rogers R. McCoola 4 I don't know there's three others evidently uh maybe he's the fourth Alan E. Brie Jones uh what is this oh boy what did I write right you uh Benjamin Krauss Chumbucket with no last name Kate Goring Robert McClimus Ashton Perkins Tiffany Simon Lisa Duvall Florian Thiedman Thiedman Thiedman Emily C Zachary Miller Kyler Manta Renee Repick Spa 64822 there's a lot of spas evidently 64,000 of them uh Bonque Queen XO XO she loves and kisses or hugs and kisses loves and kisses loves and kisses bored queen that's what it is not bon looks a daisy Dayno with no last name Christopher Legault Kate with no last name Tyler and Ariana Minor uh Crystal Sheffield Nicole Gandolfo Brett with no last name Taylor Grosay Grosay Gros Bethany Svenby or a Guzman Jessica Seco Chico maybe Jeff with no last name Josie Chavez Joe Jonah Jonah Honji oh boy uh Tracy Tracy Smith Joe Boyd Dina Hollister Crystal Lukens William Falls Megan Burrells Christina Little uh Jacob Eve Phyllis Spence Alex with no last name Savvy Travey Amber Moore Nicole Martin Heather with no last name Josh with no last name John Taylor Megan Elsmore uh Shell with no last name David Alden oh boy Ald Adel Adel Steinson how do you guys work Paul Adelman uh uh John Anderson uh Anna Chamboless Fuzzy Zeller uh Nina with no last name Joseph Pope Tiffany Naffet Zach Cole Justine with no last name Tracy Wood Kayla Branstadter yep yeah Branstadter uh Kaylee Kelly Kelly Howe or Ho uh Jay Kill Caitlyn Chessey Mark oh Mary Ann Mary Jane Mary Jane Beatty uh Nicholas Sayy Robbie Robbie Pistol no what is this Neil Carleton Patrick with no last name Laura Magechin Brett Sawyer Scott Peterson probably not but maybe he could be a big fan even though we've talked mad shit about him probably a piece of shit but not this one uh Matt Renfer uh Catalina with no last name Valerie Hillard Yvette Ramirez Jason Beeth Beethowed Be Thowed Beeth Houd all right Catherine Cohen Laura nice work Laura Laura Goldfarb Goldfarb Brian Langston Marilyn Copeland Jacob Woolman Amanda with no last name Jason Grunspan Adrian Ybarra Shen would know last name Kimmy would know last name Roods and Holes Holes Roods and Holes uh Gabriel Gabriella Matt Matthias Matthias uh Rochelle Rochelle Williams Mark Colman uh Willie Wiley Matthews Jamie Hebb Katie Goudge or Goge it's probably I don't know it's probably something else it's probably I don't fucking know what i'm doing April Thornton Rajello Rojillo Rogelio Rogelio it's Rodriguez is his last name so it doesn't matter he knows who he is Charlie Bennett Charlie Bennett Catherine Bennett probably two of the same family Bennett uh Tiara Speth Juanita Green yep uh Dallas Perrin just Stephanie Hall London Mitchell Kurt Jurgens oh boy that's a tough one all right Alan uh uh uh uh uh Alan Lyka Deon Joseph Bailey would know last name Casey would know last name Christopher Prichard Timothy Walker Justin would know last name Brandy Ross Martha Dominguez Paul Bryson Amanda Mackenzie Braden would know last name Anthony Wood he got two patrons thank you Anthony Wow unless there's two dudes named Anthony Wood back to back that donated to us I doubt it uh Taylor Murdoch Anthony Wood Don Brodka Junior Kicks Ruger uh Pam would know last name Sharon Ford Alexandria Smith Taylor Max Fort C Wick Dan Sirley or Searle Sirles uh Cyril uh Tammy Anderson Katie Smith Maria Matlock Alyssa Eit uh Elle Turt Michael Kleinfelder Zach would know last name Chris Poli Jennifer Aquino Tanya Montez Ashley would know last name Scott Wade Sophie Sophie Potter Giggle Tasha Giggle Tasha uh Shawn uh Homestead Janelle Duteal Dutailay Derica Derica Derica Richard Derica it's Derica right the fish fingerer Emily the fish fingerer my Christ uh Emily uh Borgy Thomas Richardson Brittany Benoit Colquette I said that uh Tyra Gode Gode Gode uh and all of her patrons you guys are fantastic thank you thank you so much everybody you guys are fucking awesome we cannot thank you enough for all that you do for us you keep this train going forward and you keep us afloat so thank you for all that you do keep coming back and doing more and we'll keep pumping out as much cool stuff as we possibly can and we will keep doing that every single week you want to follow us on social media it's all on shut up and give me murder.com keep coming back and until next week everybody it's been our pleasure. Bye! If you like small town murder you can listen early and add free now by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon music before you go tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com/survey I'm Dan Tabersky in 2011 something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York. I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad and like stop **** around she's like I can't. A mystery illness bizarre symptoms and spreading fast like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls. With a diagnosis the state tried to keep on the download. Everybody thought I was holding something back. Well you were holding something back intentionally. Well yeah yeah well yeah. No it's hysteria it's all in your head it's not physical you oh my gosh you're exaggerating. Is this the largest mass hysteria since the witches of Salem or is it something else entirely? Something's wrong here something's not right. Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder. A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios. Historical. Follow hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of hysterical early and add free right now by joining Wondery Plus.
