Tonight Andy Last of the Beyond Synth podcast. In this episode we're talking about cars, technology, video games, pinball, and terrible songs.
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Ozone Nightmare
Andy Last (2024 Edition)
- Hey gang, welcome to "Ozone Late Night." Long time front of the show, Andy Last of "Beyond Synth" is here to catch up with me as we talk about cars of all things, technology, pinball, and why making an arcade cabinet at home is really fun in theory and sometimes less fun in execution. (dramatic music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - All right, I am happy to welcome back to "Ozone Late Night." That is the worst impression I can possibly do. - No, I got what you're doing. - No, it's terrible. Listen, there's gonna be a recurring gag during this episode that is both terrible, but it'll be music to me. And as you well know, that's all that really matters. As long as you as the host are amused, everybody else is secondary. - That's true. - So I am welcoming back after quite a while because the last episode that posted with you and Marco, we had recorded like six months before that. So it's been a long time. And that is Andy last of the Beyond Synth wave chat show. Do you still describe it that way? I think you do, right? The best chat show in the universe? - Just the best one there is. That's all. That's the best one there is, period, full stop. - The best one there is, period, giant period at the end of there. Yeah, so Andy and I have not had a catch up show in quite a while. So I've been listening to your recent episodes, which I've been quite enjoying. And I have been making a topic list. The problem is I put no context around my notes. I was telling my wife this right before we started. I said, you know, I don't know what all these notes mean. For example, one, 'cause the thing says, Andy last topic, so I was that smart. And one of them just says, base drum symbol combo. And I don't know what that means. - Base drum symbol combo. - I don't know. Some of them make sense? - That one, I thought maybe I'd be able to guess, but that one I'm thinking, base drum symbol combo. - I have to imagine if you referred to something you like in a song that has to do with that, because I don't know what else that would mean. I really don't. There's stuff that doesn't make sense. - I like it. I like it. - Yeah. - We did it. We talked about the base drum symbol combo. - Let me check that off the list, 'cause that's very important for this. But then there's other ones that I know like talking about the Nomads movie with. Of course, I put his name as Pierce Brisbane, but it's the Brosnan, because I mistyped it. Because you didn't care for that movie. By the way, there is no structure to this, everybody. So welcome to it. Beyoncint.com, patreon.com/biancint. Now we're just getting into it. - No, now you're just reading me notes from somebody else's interview thing, 'cause I don't think I saw Nomads. - I thought you said you watched that one and didn't like it, 'cause I thought it was great. - No, no, I'm talking about mega force. Mega force. - That's the one I've learned. - I've never seen Nomads. What the hell is Nomads? - No, Nomads was, it was Pierce, it was their first, I think Pierce Brosnan's first big role. - No. - And it was-- - I mean, yes, but I haven't seen it. - I think because you must have been talking about 007, and maybe, yeah, okay, Nomads, I would say watch that. I don't know if you like it. But the reason you wanna watch it is because Pierce Brosnan is doing one of the worst French accents you will ever hear in your life. - I don't know why they made him do it, but it's hilarious. - Okay, I'll watch Nomads. I feel like you're looking at notes. You've messed up the name of the person for the notes. I'll be curious to know if any of these relate to me. - No, the rest of them, I'm pretty-- - We're zero for zero so far, so. - Wait, here's one, people who smell like their soap. I don't know what that refers to. - People who, you're reading somebody else's notes, man. - Wait, learning to try the three. - Learning to drive at 40. Is that one right? - Drive at 40. - Did you learn to drive late in life? - Yes, that's me. Okay, all right. Well, the first one says start with Andy's version of All Right, so I did start the first one correctly. - Okay, that's good. - And then learn to drive at 40, because I knew that you didn't drive. I didn't know that you didn't know how to drive. Meaning, did you not just get a license till you were 40, and you had driven? Or did you really never really drive at all before? - No, I didn't really drive. Like the only time I ever did literally, I don't know, like it would be like six years between doing anything, and then my wife might be like, "Hey, you wanna try and practice, you know, driving in a parking lot or something?" And I would do that once, and then not again for another like eight years. So really I didn't, I didn't drive, but it means I'm not a bad backseat driver, because I just basically put all my faith into the driver. So I don't say anything. - I only think of a reverse. - No, 'cause I don't know how to drive. No, I don't have the right. I don't the right, 'cause I don't know how to do it. So, now the only thing is I don't, I'm such a good backseat driver that I also don't comment when they're doing something wrong, that I do know that they're doing incorrectly, because I feel like it's not my place. So even though I'm like, we're supposed to be going to Wendy's right now, and I know they missed the turn off, but I won't say anything, 'cause I'm like, they know what they're doing. I'm not gonna tell them how to fucking drive. And then it's like, oh yeah, we're going to Wendy's. I should have turned. I'm like, I know, but I mean, like I shouldn't, it's not my place, 'cause I don't know how. - Well, that's a little more understanding, because some people, and I'm one of these people, I do not usually take the most direct route to anywhere, mostly because I don't like turning across traffic, because I've just seen too many car accidents, and caused car accidents. So it's like, I always wanna make a right, kind of like they say UPS drivers do, which isn't true, but they always say it. So I always prefer to kind of go around the block if it just means I can keep making rights. I don't like going across traffic, so people will say, it's right there, and I'm like, yeah, I'll get to it, we'll get there. It's like five minutes later, who cares? - Yeah, 'cause I'm so uncomfortable with my driving skill that I don't do anything that I'm uncomfortable with. So I won't do that move. I don't even pull into parking lots, I don't feel comfortable parking in, so I do, when I drive, I will do long roundabout things, but that's just because of my confidence and my driving. So if I pull into a parking lot and it seems, I'm like, I'm gonna have to back into a space, and that's the only option. But I'm just like, nope, like I'm out of here, I'll just fucking park somewhere else and walk down the road, but who knows? Maybe in a few years, I'll have gained some confidence, I don't know. - The backing into space this thing is such a weird, specific driving taboo, not to have it was the wrong word for it. A lot of people don't like backing into parking spaces, and I only like backing into parking spaces, because-- - Well, it's better to gleeve. - Right, right. - It's just, for me, it's more, well, this is what I say, like when I talk about this topic is like, since I've learned so late, nothing is second nature to me. Like, nothing about driving has become second nature to me. So it sounds stupid to say out loud, because it makes me sound like a child or an idiot or whatever. But like, sometimes like when I'm backing up, I have to remind myself turning the steering wheel this way makes the car go this way, right? Like it's not an instinct. So if someone held a gun to my head right now and just went like drive, I would fuck up immediately. Like I would do the wrong thing. And I have a tendency to do that, like just in life, whenever I'm rushed, I will instinctively do the opposite thing. I know there's like some comedians I watch who make jokes about this. But like if someone asked me the time, I'm one of those people who in that moment will forget how to use my device to tell them the time. Like it's just something, I don't know what that is. Like there's a thing. But it's like if you have a watch and someone goes, what's the time? I'll like forget how to look at it in that moment. I know when I lived in the city and strangers, if they ever asked me directions, I would literally tell them the opposite thing. And then I would walk away and get mad at myself. They'd be like, what way's fucking John Street? And I'd be like, oh, it's down to the left. And then I walk away, I'm like, it's to the right. Like why did I say left? Like I know it's not to the left. It's like, I don't know what that is if it's like an anxiety thing or whatever. So driving is the same for me. So as long as I'm having a nice casual drive, everything's fine. But if all of a sudden I have to make like in, like someone just forces me to do like, quick, we gotta do this thing. I will just, I'll just do the wrong thing. Now that being said, I have dodged two people that almost hit me a few times. So I can like for safety, like I remember like one time a car was coming at me and it backed out of a driveway when it shouldn't have and I did swerve and dodge it. So, so that was okay. So I don't want to scare anyone into thinking I'm like some fucking, if anything, I do the drive too slow thing. That's my, which I understand is just as unsafe, but I'm sure it's better than driving really fast and doing a fuck up. - Yeah, I wouldn't say it. I would definitely say going too slow is safer than going too fast. - I get that it's still a problem if you're-- - It's not as big a deal for you. And that's what matters. - Well also, I don't do any highway. Again, all of this is, is me prefacing like, I don't do anything I am uncomfortable with doing, which I think is a good thing. Like when I say this, people always do the caveat like, well, if you're on the fucking highway and driving too slow, that's caused a problem too. I'm like, yeah, I bet it does, except I don't do any highway driving because I'm uncomfortable doing that. So all of my driving is literally, I am the superfluous side quest car. So I'm the, you know, my wife is the main driver. She drives the van and I'm the, drive the kids to school guy and the occasionally go to the grocery store guy. Like I'm not, I'm not the main quest vehicle. So I'm not doing any of the important things. I'm just like helping out to alleviate the driving load for unnecessary trips. - And so now, is the reason that you didn't learn to drive for so long because when you were younger, I don't know if, I know you lived in the city for a while. When you were younger, were you still in the city? You just didn't need to? Or by the time you got old enough for it to marry, you were in the city and it didn't, it wasn't a factor. - Yes. Yeah, 'cause then, okay, I come from a small town where you need to drive, like everybody drives. I just, I just not, I'm not interested in driving or cars. And I don't know how to explain this logically, but whenever I'm not interested in something, I just don't do it. And so, I just always was driven by my friends, like they all had cars. In a way, it was a little annoying because, like, you know, if I go to a party, I have to go with somebody else and then I can't leave unless they leave. And so that was awkward sometimes, like if you're at a place you don't wanna be, 'cause I have been driven to and left at places that I did not wanna be. But I just didn't ever cared. I was never a car guy. I don't care about cars now. I don't, I just have no interest. Like I don't care what they look like. The only thing that interests me now that I am driving is that if I ever buy a little car for myself, I need cruise control. That's just from like driving now that I understand my limitations. And one thing I can't do is fucking maintain speed. I'm just fucking horrible at it. So that's all. And air conditioning. I'm just driving my dad's car, which is a 2008. The other day the fucking calipers went on one of the wheels and we brought it to the dealer 'cause it's a Hyundai and it's a 2008 car. And the fucking, they're like, oh yeah, the caliper's gone, but we just, we did a little assessment. So at first it's like, it's gonna be 500 bucks to fix this thing. Oh my God, okay, whatever. And then they're like, oh, we can't do the work for us because we did some fucking safety check and we wanna do $5,000 worth of stuff, right? And I'm like, well, no, that's not fucking happening. And then we have a local garage that's actually like they're honest people 'cause we live in a small town and they've always been really good. Like they'll do shit for free. Like one time our fucking power steering belt was off and it didn't take the guy long to fix it. So he just didn't charge us or whatever. Like they're those kind of people, like actual good people. And then when I told the guy, I'm like, so I guess we're gonna sell it for scrap. And then I'm like, yeah, it's my dad's car. You know, he's like, wait a second, what? Like, what are you talking about? I'm like, yeah, like they fucking said there's like $5,000 worth of shit. And he's like, I don't know about that, dude. And like apparently this Hyundai dealership, they've gotten like a lot of cars from people who like they bring them in and say they need to do like thousands of dollars worth of like unnecessary work. And so now I'm in the middle of that. So I'm like, fine, fuck, I'll get it towed from their garage to your garage or whatever. And we'll see. If the car sucks, then they'll be, they'll tell the truth. And then we might scrap it, which will, you know, pay for the fucking tow truck. It's like, it won't be worth it. We'll get like a hundred bucks of scrap out of it, but whatever. - Yeah, you're learning the lesson late that you never trust the dealership, which is one of the first things you learn if you have a car. - Yeah, this is my wife. Like it was so stupid. So you know, when you fucking, nothing drives me more crazy than a fucking side quest you didn't want to have. I know like every day is like this, but my wife's bringing her vehicle in for a checkup. And so it's like, she's gonna have to wait for several hours. Is it just follow me in to this place? It's like half hour drive. I'll follow her in with the car so that we can go do fucking shopping and all this shit while we wait for the van. But then my car fucking breaks when we get to the other town and the fucking tire like the calipers or whatever. I literally don't know anything about cars. All I know is like it felt like the break was on the one wheel and it got so hot. - So I think what you mean is brake calipers. Those are the calipers or what? This is as little as I know because I melted the brakes in my first car. The day I owned it is I left the emergency brake on, that drove it for 30 minutes and didn't know why I smelled something cooking. And then we got back to the house. My dad was like, you fucking idiot. He's like, you just destroyed it. (laughing) - Oh look, my dad owned a car wrecking shop. My dad had all the background and I have none. I'm not as disinterested as you, but I have no ability. I've never cared about, like my dad, I'm sure was in this way massive, I'm sure in many ways, but he was massively disappointed that I didn't want to get into cars and my dad was one of these people who could take apart a transmission without having to see a manual and like figure out what's wrong. And just put it together, he just had that, right? And I don't. So it never occurred to me to look at a parking brake. So yeah, the car seemed like it was slow, but what the fuck do I know? It's my first car. So I'm like, well, you know, it's a fourth thunderbird. It's not like I've ever heard the fords are great, at least in the United States, fords don't have the best reputation. So I'm like, okay, it just doesn't have a lot of engine power. That's fine. I destroyed it anyway 'cause I drive like an idiot. So it was better. But yeah, I drove the whole thing 30 minutes with the parking brake on the whole time. And so when we got back, there was this smell and he immediately went, you just cooked your brakes. He's like, that's, you just shot the brakes. That's it. We have to immediately replace all four, everything. And so the caliper holds the, is what holds the pads. That's how it breaks. Right. These little metal pads grip the brakes, which seems insane to me, that that's how fun the engineering works. But yeah, we didn't even get, I didn't even drive for like five minutes. Like once the caliper went, it was immediately like something's fucking wrong here. And then we drove like three minutes. We just happened to break down right near the dealership, but like. I don't think my dad's car has been to that dealership since he purchased it in like 2010 or whatever. Like it's been a long time. And even by the time we drove that few minutes to get to the dealership, the whole, it smelled like burnt rubber, like the whole fucking parking lot. And we were like outside. And so, I mean, had we driven anymore, I imagine the tires would have fucking become liquid or something like it was like, they were fuck. Anyway, so whatever. I still don't know the deal what we're gonna do, but obviously putting fucking $5,000 worth of work into a 2008 Hyundai X Center, whatever. I don't think on the cards, but we'll see. - Yeah, that's how it usually happens. I mean, I got, I was very lucky that the stuff that I screwed up early was cheap. I mean, relatively to what it could have been. I mean, I also was driving to Vermont one time and ignored the fact that the tires were basically bald. And then at one point, I just heard this noise and suddenly all I saw was, and I didn't know what it was at the time, but the tire detonated without actually blowing. So what can happen, I found this out in experience, is the way the, and I'm, anybody who knows cars, I'm explaining this like a moron because I don't know. Again, my father, if he were still around, would be like, you asshole, this is what you need to, I don't know. But the way the tire is, the whole outside of a tire, the tread can come off of the inner part without it actually blowing. So what happened was the whole thing disintegrated, the outer part shredded the fender and just blew up, but the tire didn't blow. So I lucked out there 'cause I didn't lose control of the car, but the whole tread came off. So I went to a shop and my dad, I called him and he said, don't do anything until I can talk to the guy at the shop. So I get to the shop and because I think I'm, you know, I was like 20. So of course I thought I was a fucking genius. I get to the shop and the guy's like, oh yeah, this is like your dealership exam. He's like, oh yo, your tires, oh they're all bad. So what we really need to do is replace him with these and he told me sometime, like yeah, do it. And my dad's like, those are the most expensive tires. Why did you agree to that? You know, I already done it, I paid for it, so whatever. So these are, you know what, you didn't miss shit is what I'm saying. For owning a car later, it's almost like you're getting the carmist's summation all at once now. It's like, oh, you missed out on all the dumb little shit that you learn when you're younger with a car. Now you're getting it all as a $5,000 bill, but. - Yeah, well, I'm not obviously paying it 'cause it's a and hold for that much of a car, you know? - Yeah, I got to see you 'cause I don't know what the, again, I had no intention of buying a new one. It's not like I have the budget to do that. But then I don't know, like everyone, you know, people say these things and they're like old wives, tales, or whatever. And I was like, well, you want to buy a new car? I don't get used 'cause you end up putting all the money into it. I'm like. - That's horseshit. - I've never had used cars and they've generally lasted fine. - Well, see, what I'm thinking too is like the cost differential, like I know people say that and I know it sounds right. But everybody I know who ever bought a used car, if they own it longer than five years, then they're also putting work into that car. So it's not like your car literally is just this perfect thing for like 10 years. So, I mean, if you save like 20 grand, you know, buying some used car, the question is like, are you actually gonna put in 20 grand worth of work into this thing by the time you would have done your first work on your, you know, quote, new car? And I don't know if that's true. Like it just feels wrong. Like you're gonna put fucking 30 grand in just so you bought like a 40th. I know I'm talking in Canadian dollars here. So I know American thing. - Yeah, look, generally it's, you're gonna put a bunch of money in one way or another. Whether it's dollars or loonies or whatever, it doesn't matter. Is loony still a thing? Is it still a Canadian thing? Okay, let's make a share. I don't wanna use an outdated currency stereotype. - Well, we don't have pennies anymore. - Well, we still do this. - We got rid of our pennies. - I don't know why we still have them. Nobody, I mean, I literally threw one out the other day when I found out my pocket 'cause I'm like, what's the point? But I mean, really, they're not, it literally, I don't think pennies are worth pennies if you actually, there's some thing I saw or somebody's like, well, a penny is not even worth a penny. And it's like, what does that mean? But it's probably true because they're junk. But the thing about, and I, we're now 20 minutes at the car talk, which is just great 'cause neither of us cares that much about cars, but we're gonna do it anyway. So, I mean, any of the, so much of what, when people say this stuff, as somebody who had a father who ran a, basically a shop shop, but a legal one, and a father-in-law who has an alignment shop, the thing that people don't do, and this is sort of true of everything, is do a little basic research past what somebody told you. There are so many forums for car owners of every type of car there's ever gonna be, and those people will start complaining and will say, this thing sucks because X. And then the thing you dial into is what kind of driving are they doing? Because yeah, if you're off-roading, then you probably don't wanna buy a PT Cruiser and go off-roading. That's probably not going to work out if you're rock climbing. You know what I mean? Whereas, what you're talking about, there are probably cars that are well-suited for that type of driving, and that's where, that's how you look for things, 'cause you'll hear every version, it's like everything else in the world. Everybody's an expert on something, and usually they're not an expert unless that's their job. If it's their job, then pay attention. You know, it's also- - It's like with Amazon reviews and stuff, it's the same thing. It's like, I usually buy what I want to buy regardless, but some of the, you know, there'll be negative reviews, but sometimes they're just sort of, I don't wanna say pointless, 'cause obviously if something broke, it's worthwhile mentioning, but I don't know what I meant to do with reviews that are like, the packaging was damaged, so zero stars. - I don't know if it's just either. - And it's like, you know that that's specific to you, right? Now listen, if there were 40 comments that said, this thing arrived damaged, and like they all say the same thing, then you go, okay, well, something's up, right? But whenever there's just like one zero star comment, because like, I tried to plug it into my computer and the light didn't go on. I'm like, then you got a shitty one, like send it back. Like it's, you know what I mean? Like it only becomes a thing once I see like, a bunch of similar, you know, looking comments, but everyone's always in a rush to complain, and then they have their own unique special reason why that thing didn't work for them. And oftentimes those sorts of reviews are pointless to me. I was like, it didn't fit on my counter, like, okay. Cool, like fucking, I don't have your counter, so this is useless. I don't know. - I bought this blow dryer, and when I plug it into the USB-C port on my computer, it doesn't work. - Yeah. - Okay, no, thank you. - Although now I just see a lot of those fucking, those bot ones where it's not even a review for the product you're looking at. - Yeah. - Like, dude, I'm doing, I just went to buy season two, Peter Davidson season two, Dr. Who Blue Ray. - I just bought that, I have it behind me. - I bought that, I just got it. - I just ordered it, so I don't get mine for a few days. Oh, no, that's right. So I was gonna get John Pertwee season three or whatever. And no, no, sorry, fuck me, the point is, I went to get, it was the Tom Baker one, and the comments were all, these are some great John Pertwee stories. And I'm looking, I'm like, so it worried me a bit, 'cause I'm like, okay, is the product thing off? Like, if I order this, am I getting the wrong Blue Ray? Or like, why is there this weird mismatch? 'Cause sometimes on Amazon, you'll see products. And I'm like, is this the European version? Like, sometimes a little image looks like the Blue Ray box I expect, and sometimes it doesn't. And I don't wanna get the fucking region two Blue Ray. - No, you're right to be concerned, 'cause it has happened. There have been mix-ups where the wrong things were sent to people, or they had the wrong video. So now it's worse because you're looking for a legitimate problem and you're getting buried in. It used to be a lot easier to say, no, no, I just want the reviews for this thing, not everything that says Doctor Who. And now it's all just jumbled together because Amazon has become the fucking Walmart of online shopping, it's just fucking garbage. - Yeah, meanwhile I do all my shopping there. (laughing) - But then you know what? For the most part-- - That's the bitch. - Is some stuff, it's really the only place to get it. That's what I hate about Amazon, is there a certain thing, 'cause I've tried to get away from it, but there's only so far you can get away from it because it's now so dominant. Well, there's not too many super specialized things I need. So to me, it's like, there's just so many things that are so much more convenient to get there. You know, if I'm getting USB cables like, 'cause everything is, is cheaper, right? Like whenever I, if we're in a Walmart and I remind myself, like, oh fuck, I gotta get USB cables and I'm looking at them like, these are technically cheaper on Amazon and they're probably just as good. Not that Walmart says good things, but you know. So it's only sometimes where I notice when I, when I want some variety, there's certain products where there doesn't seem to be. And then I'm always like, ah, do I gotta go to another fucking website? Like I wanna get a new router and Amazon seems to really, at least Amazon Canada, it's mostly TP link. Like that's like all the top ones. - Yeah. - And I don't like their software, like they, they do this, like again, I'm not like a super technical guy, but I wanted to just set up, you know, like a router where you set up the fucking block listing or whatever for parental controls and shit. And TP link now makes you, you have to download an app now. You can't just, you know, when you router, right? You usually just log into like fucking one point, zero, six, zero, 0.1 and then you do everything from there. - One nine, two dot one, six, eight dot one dot one or one nine, two dot one. - Yeah, that's the one. - Oh, I have those memorized. 'Cause I am, I play a tech guy on TV. - Yeah, so the thing is, I just, again, I'm not doing super technical things. I don't do fucking firewalls or whatever words, all those initials I don't know. But I do like to do the basic things, you know, if I can, like just set up basic. 'Cause I don't like to do the blanket things. Like whenever you do like just disable, you know, adult, like for your kids or whatever, like disable adult sites. Because then other things get caught in the crossfire and sometimes it doesn't also cover a lot of things. Like you can still find that kind of content with very little effort. So to me, it's more useful to be able to just put in URLs. Just say block this, block this, block this, whitelist this. - You're doing it, which, yeah, I was gonna say, you're talking about blacklisting whitelisting as opposed to just letting the machine decide what's adult. Because then anything-- - Yeah, 'cause I still need-- - It's identified. - Yeah, 'cause I still need access to things too. 'Cause sometimes like if you just do the basic checkbox, and I don't, again, I don't wanna get too technical. So it's not, I don't wanna be like, this device can only watch this stuff and this device can do this. I just like, look, I don't need to see a lot of these horrible porn sites. I don't mind if they're also blocked for me. I just, I would like there to be just one thing. But it needs to, anyway, the point is that stupid TP link, it makes you use an app now. So even for like the blacklisting shit, you have to use the app to do it. And I'm like, you want me to individually copy and paste sites into the phone app, which is like, you know, you just wanna fucking drag a list in on your computer, it's so stupid. So now I'm looking for, I did look at, well, you probably know about this, then there's like some open source shit where you can like wipe your certain routers. - Yes, what you're talking about is custom firmware. So there's like a tomato, I think, is one of the more popular ones. There's other ones too. There's a couple of different ones. Oh, there's one that's like DD something. I know everybody, sorry, people who know it right offhand, people who are big and open source are like, you moron. - Why didn't even know that was, again, everything, I always love how, there's like a subculture for everything. And whenever you discover it and find out like, oh, this is a thing, so I never knew this was a thing until last week, 'cause I was like, fuck me, like, can't I just get different software? And then like, I don't know the one I saw, but they had, anyway, it was, you know, they have a big list of routers. Of course, my router was not on the list. If my router was on the list, I would have tried that. - Well, all right, I'm gonna caution you one thing. - Don't do it. - No, no, no, no, no, I'm not gonna say don't do it, but what I am gonna say is, since you're saying, I'm not really a big tech guy, make sure you know what the pitfalls of doing it might be, so that if something happens, 'cause you can destroy your entire network. I mean, you can, you know, there are, there is a little bit, a lot of them are very user friendly now, certainly compared to the old ones. So I'm not saying don't do it to anybody, 'cause I know that'll get me a bunch of emails saying, hey, asshole, it works fine. So it is far better than it used to be. It's kind of like using Linux today and using it 15 years ago. Well, it's night and day, but just, I would look at some videos on how it works first and make sure you're comfortable with it in case suddenly, 'cause you do a podcast. So you depend on the internet more than, you know, if my mother who just goes to, what do you call it, scrapbooking sites to get ideas, for internet goes down for a week, I'm not all that concerned, even though she might be. I'm like, you're gonna survive. Whereas you're doing a show, so if your quality suddenly shits the bed, because the firmware has a quirk, because you're running it on a particular router, on a particular carrier, you wanna know about that. So that's my only caution with that stuff is, if your default stuff breaks, you can call a support line. You'll talk to a robot for three hours, but you'll get to somebody maybe eventually, whereas with this stuff, because it's open source, you're gonna have to, on your phone or whatever, go on your cellular and go to a form and say, this happened, help, and help somebody, and there probably will be some people, 'cause there are floaters who just sit there and they're like, I can help you, and they'll jump right in, which is great, but it's also, you're gonna get some nerd people. - My favorite to forum people, there's just these certain types of internet people that drive me nuts. We probably talked about this before. One of them is the recipe person, so, well, no, there's three people now, there's three. There's my three people I hate the most on the internet. One, the person who has to comment on any cute cat video or animal video to talk about animal cruelty, so like, this is one thing I learned about myself. Now, mind you, I might be too far the other way. I literally don't care, like, if there's nothing I can do if somebody owns a pet monkey somewhere in like China or something, like, I can't do anything about that. So, whenever you see a video like, look, there's little cute monkeys, we're in like a bowtie or whatever, he's eating a pineapple. I just look at where they're-- - The monkeys don't want to wear clothing. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - There's always-- - I'm calling Peter. There's always that person at the top for every video, but even the ones that like, so I get that's a little different. Sometimes if it's like an exotic animal that you shouldn't have, I still realize now that I don't care. It's weird, like, I like animals, but I, you know, you can only care about so much, you know what I mean? Like, everyone's got their thing, right? So it's like, you know, either you care, I feel like when you stretch yourself too thin, you become like a cartoon character, like you're walking around, like, I'm the most empathetic person in the world. And like, so for me, it's like, even if someone has an exotic pet, if that pet is fucking literally sitting around, wearing a hat and eating awesome food and they get to live at a house and they're not in the forest getting murdered, like, okay, maybe it's better for that fucking flying wombat thing to be in the forest, but this one's gonna have a pretty cool life. Like, if it's, you know, it's being taken care of and it's cute and stuff and they take pictures of it, but the point is, is like, I don't really care if I see that. It doesn't offend me. There's nothing I can do about it. I don't know these people, you know what I mean? Like, I can't like, even if I did care, like, what the fuck would I do? But, so there's always that person. Anytime there's a cute animal video of any kind, fucking, are you sure the cat likes to be pet that way? I saw one where the cat was wanted to be in the bath. That's why the video was cute and funny because the cat was meowing because they wanted to take the cat out of the bath and it was mad at them because it wanted to stay in there, right? And the comments are like, people who, it's like, yeah man, that's why you don't give the cat a bath. Why are you being so cruel? The cat doesn't wanna do that. And like, if the cat didn't wanna be in the bath, it would have leapt out. It wants to be in there. Like, it's literally sitting in there and it's mad. It doesn't wanna leave 'cause it's a weird, quirky cat. And, so all these people commenting and like, they don't even understand what they're looking at. They just see a cat meowing and then like, whatever, like they gotta say they're stupid shit. So there's those people. Those people piss me off the fucking animal cruelty people for every animal post. The fucking recipe people. So you watch a video of a recipe and then there's always the people in the comments just saying their recipe. And again, it's like, why? Like, I don't get it. You know what I mean? Like, here's how I make spaghetti and then there's someone in the comments. Like, I would, I had another thing, a garlic. Like, oh, do you? Like, who, like, why? Like, why are you even saying this? Like, get out of here. Like, this isn't your video. And the third thing is the fucking commenters who criticize the question without answering anything. You know, like where someone says like, hey, I've got a, you know, I've got a modem. It's a model, whatever, ZZ2. And I'm trying to set up a fucking network, you know, in my house and I'm in a basement or whatever. And then there's just a, why would you want to do that? Those people? - Oh, yeah. Well, you know, you should put a router in a basement 'cause you understand there's signal degradation because of the concrete and steel in me. - Yeah, like this. - The second and third floor is you moron. - Yeah, there's just those people who come in and it's like, yeah, like, why would you want to do that with that kind of modem? And it's like, dude, that's the question he's asking. That's the modem he has, that's the situation. If you don't have an answer, just don't be here. Like, I don't get those people 'cause I see that in every form, the person who just criticizes the question. And it's like, dude, even if the question is stupid, either say what you're doing is too complicated. You know, if it's like a, you know, maybe it's like a Photoshop or a question, you know, like, oh, I'm trying to cut out a person from the background and I'm using this fucking the brush tool or whatever. And maybe there's just a better way. And someone comes in and says, oh, why are you using that tool? Use the fucking auto background remove tool. You know, press apple shift. That'll do what you want to do. But then there's always the person's like, why would you, why would you want to do that? Why would you want to cut a person out of a picture? I don't see why people want to do that. And like, then get out of here. Like, fuck you. So those are the three, those are the three fucking stupid internet people. It's like, either answer the person's question or just don't say anything and just let it die. Like let the thread die. If it's that stupid of a question, then the person will, you know, figure it out if no one wants to assist them. - Well, it's like anything else. You can essentially say why would you want to do that without being an asshole about it? What you could say is, well, I think you could do that by doing this, but what will probably be easier for you is to do x, y, z, if you can. - Yes, well, so that it's a lot easier. - Yeah, if you're clear, also if you're clear about what you're trying to do, right? So sometimes people just explain the method and you know, they might have a complicated method they're trying to explain, but not necessarily explain what is the end goal. But if you explain the end goal. - I just don't know if you'd be like router or my network sucks, why? - Yeah. - Man, you're gonna have to give me a little bit more than that. What do you mean? - Yeah. - I literally had those questions and I'm like. - Yeah, well, yeah. So I'm obviously there's, it's not like the question askers are innocent either. - Or swings both ways sometimes is all we're saying. - Yes, but the thing is like if you come into it and you say here's what I'm trying to accomplish and here are the things I have, that's, then at that point everything's fine. But like the people who come in to just, to complain with the premise of what you're doing is like, listen man, sometimes people have a specific scenario, like that's the modem they have. This is the location they're in. So if there's a solution, you know, you can, and you can help, but I don't know. It's just people who are unnecessarily like negative on the internet, I always find interesting 'cause I'm just, I'm not a commenter by nature. So I don't get those people. Like whenever I watch a video that I don't like, I don't say anything. I don't criticize the whatever or the opinions. I just sort of leave. Like it's weird. It's like I don't, even now, if I see something I really like, I don't even really comment on that either. Like I might heart the post, but then sometimes I just send a message. Like if it's something I'm that compelled by, like this is a real fucking really cool thing. I'll just message the person to say that was a cool thing. If they're a super popular page, they'll probably never see that message. But if they're a super popular page, they probably won't see the, the messages under their videos anyways. So who cares? - No, I was, I said something about that the other day where I was talking about, well, on a, you know, if this idea that people email somebody who has 50,000 followers and they wonder why they don't get a response back and I'm sitting there going, that person can't possibly respond to you. They can't. - Yeah. - There's too many things. - I can barely respond and I get like no emails. So like I just-- - I'm the same way. I'm terrible and I feel really bad about it 'cause people send really thoughtful, you know, suggestions for things and I literally look at the email and I'm like, wow, that's really great. And then I don't respond for two weeks and I don't know why I can. Also, I suck it. I'm not good at text. I literally in type, like I can't, I send audio messages to people, not because I want like the sound of my voice 'cause I don't, but because I'm better at talking, at least compared to typing. So my messages when I type text are so weird and fragmented and not good. Let's just work there. That's a perfect example of how my messages generally go. So I, it's almost like I don't want to email back 'cause I think I'll just reveal how stupid I am. It's like the mejo, like you suggestion. Thanks much. - Yeah, I think every, I don't know, I get some... Everything seems daunting to me. That's my problem. It's like, so even simple things, it just, I feel the work, even if it's not work, it just feels like, oh God, like everything's a mounting, there's a list that's building, a to-do list. And I find the to-do list very, it's just, yeah, it just weighs on me. And so sometimes even a simple email, like I can literally, well, first of all, like when it comes to Beyonce, I don't actually really email a lot of people back. So when people send me music, I don't, if it's someone I recognize that's new, that hasn't emailed me before, you know, I might just send like a, you know, thanks for reaching out, I'll check out your stuff, but I don't do that every time. I just do it if it's someone's new, just so that they know that, yes, this is the right place to send things. But I don't know, it just, I don't know, I get bored, like, I might have like ADHD or one of those things. I get bored in the middle of things, projects and stuff. And then so like whenever there's a to-do list, it just, the overwhelming thought of that list makes me just not do anything. That's why I'm still building this stupid arcade. If I was one of these people who, you know, was good or just, you know, a task-oriented person, I could have built my arcade machine in a weekend, right? Like, nah, it's, we're not talking like, it's like, it's been like a 10-month project. And only because I get bored and then I just don't touch anything down there, like, it's in the basement. I don't touch myself down there. So in the basement, there's this machine, I don't look at it for like a month and then I go, okay, all of a sudden I'll get some energy and I go back down. I'm gonna put the fucking stripe on the side now. And I'll do that and I don't touch the machine for another two months. And I know that if I actually compiled the actual work I've done and if I'm was one of those people that like just woke up early in the morning on a weekend and like, time to measure the wood and cut the wood and nail the wood together and paint the wood, I could have fucking built this thing in two days. And yeah, so. - No, I'm the, I actually have been tempted to, in fact, I have a physical come up and ask my doctor, okay, I can get diagnosed late in life on what I've got. 'Cause I have at least two things I can think of. I have OCD, I know that. I have ADHD, I have anxiety. Like I've got a bunch of stuff. I'm on some spectrum. I don't know what it is. I don't know how far along the meter I am, but I'm on it. Because I'm the same ways. I literally will pull up, I see an article, I'm like, oh, that's really, this sounds really interesting. I start reading it three paragraphs in, I have to click on something else. I can't make it. I can't make it down the page. And I'm like, that's not normal. That's not, something is wrong with me that I can't make it on an article. I'm interested in, this is not homework, this is not an assignment. I clicked on this fucking thing, and I can't make it to the bottom because I start wondering. Well also, you know. There isn't, everything also does feel a little clickbaity now. And so half the time when I read an article, there is part of me that just thinks by the end of it like, this could have been condensed down to like three sentences. That's one of the things I do with Chad GPT, is like, to be honest with you, like now I click, I take the article, copy the text, give it to Chad GPT, like sum this up in two sentences, and that I find helpful because there's so many like, especially when the articles I read 'cause I don't read anything of too much substance. So if it's a video game article, half the time, it's like a whole page devoted to a sentence. You know, just be like, everything we know about the upcoming Metroid Prime 4. It could be literally nothing. Like that could be the sentence or here's the trailer. There is literally nothing now. I mean, you made this point. I give you credit, you called it right at the beginning. Why the hell does anybody care about a game that's this far? I don't care, I don't care about a game that's not coming out this year. I don't care. I think that's, that's, that's none of it. That's why I think it's so bold. The Grand Theft Auto 6 one is like, I've never, now maybe I could be wrong if someone can correct me, but like I don't think I've ever heard of a company, a AAA company officially announcing a release date that is two years away. I don't think that's ever happened. Usually like the timeframe is usually like six months. Like if you look at like Nintendo, you know, like every time they do one of their directs and they announce a new game that people didn't know about, that game is usually out in like six months, except for ironically Metroid Prime 4, which is like the one that they announced which is like not for next year and they didn't give a specific date. I was gonna say, but they never give dates. That's why they're smart. I mean, you know, the most of these companies, the thing they do is they say coming one, you know, whatever it's coming. Like what is elder scrolls is who knows whenever the hell that's gonna come out. But they have never, in the case of elder scrolls, right? They have never said November, 2028. I mean, they do say it's 2027 or 2020. You know, like they do allude to the fact that this thing is nowhere near. - Which, as you said, that doesn't mean shit because you're like, they always get delayed. Always, there's a note. That's why I don't understand. When you say this stuff, I'm like, yep, I've never people thinking that anything is gonna come out. I don't know why we even have release dates. It pisses me off because it's just horseshit. It's, they'll aim for 2026, but there's going to guarantee to be something that delays it and whether it's because they always run into problems in the last 10%. It's always what it is. I've talked to some people. It's like, yeah, building all this stuff up until that testing point where people start playing it, then it all goes wrong because everything's great in a sealed lab when you're sitting there and everybody's controlling everything and you're going, well, this is what we want the mission to be. So you go, A, B, C, D. Oh, fun, it works, A, B, C, D. But then you sit down with a 14 year old and he's like, hey, what happens if I punch this woman in the face over here and suddenly it wrecks the whole mission? And so, I'm using, this is Grand Theft Auto, I'm thinking in those terms because, you know, famously, you know, kill a prostitute after you have sex with her and steal her money. So thank you for that contribution to the culture. So when you look at that type of stuff, of course, it's all going to get delayed. So Grand Theft Auto, that's because Rockstar is, they, I think, see themselves as one of these companies that's insulated from any criticism. And partially because their games do make so much money, they sort of understand it. Yeah, that's probably the longest one. They're the only one that I think could get away with what they did. Like, 'cause when they, that was 2023 in December. So when they said coming holiday 2025, and people are like, oh, that looks cool, I'm like, that's two years from now. Like, that's two year and it will be delayed. Like, 'cause you know in fucking November 2025, they're going to be like, it's going to need an additional four weeks of polishing and it'll come out in April of 2026 or whatever. Like, if it comes out in 2025, I will be fucking shocked. Like, I will just be blown away if that actually happens. Which, fine, I mean, I'm prepared if that happens, that'd be cool. But, you know, I don't think any other company can get away with that, but then no one really does. Like, the fact that they said the date, but you know, there's a shareholder thing, like they just, they had to say something. Right, oh yeah, yeah, no, they have to set, yeah, 'cause everything is shareholder, that's all it is. That's one of the other biggest problems. I really, I do believe the video game industry is going to hit a collapse in the next, like, five years. I think a lot of what, there's too much weird, bad stuff going on. Not gonna say video games will go away, but I think there's going to be a huge kind of ET, you know, Atari level, like, collapse and stuff. Because these games are too expensive and even when they succeed, there's a couple, there's been at least a couple articles where it's like, this company made a great game, they're gone. Because they didn't make 15% above the marketing cap or whatever, even though the game reviewed great, was great, gone, like the high-fi rush team, gone, even though everybody loved that game, it's sold very well, it was everywhere. Not, fuck it, you're done. Because it didn't make enough or whatever, or somebody acquired it and decided they weren't interested in cool looking games that have music in them, so gone. - Yeah. - That can't last, it can't. - No, my issue is, I haven't played too many things lately that I find super inspiring, like 'cause I do, like, I am a gamer and it is, I do feel it when I don't play games for a while, like it is my relaxation. And I go through phases and I think it's mostly just about the game itself, like, I try and, like, think, like, like, it's something more complex or something, like, oh, it's because I'm a fan of these kind of games or this kind of thing or whatever, but most of the time, it's just the quality of the game will override any of my personal game preferences. And I just so happen to, like, open world games and, you know, I like rockstar games and things like that and I like first person shooters and stuff. But it's always like, it's almost like movies where it takes a special one to really excite me to the point where I want to keep going back to the game system to play it. And so, usually every year, it's only, like, one or two games that do that. And I'm never in control of what that is. So it's funny 'cause in the past few years, even though I love open world games and first person shooters and that sort of stuff, like Stardew Valley was the game that honestly, like, captured me the most, like, last year and the year before. And right now, I'm playing Dave the Diver. - Oh my God, that game is fantastic. That's my, that is my okay. It's an hour until my wife gets home, but I'm off work. Was that because you look like Dave the Diver? - It kind of, it's sadly, actually, it's just my, literally, this is what's funny, that you, wait, the irony, I know you don't like what people say, it's funny, the irony of what you're saying is borne out by the fact that I was playing it the other day and I was doing the thing where I was skipping time. So, you know, he's sitting on the boat and he's just waiting. And my wife happened to walk in and look at it. She's like, "Did you design the character?" Meaning, now, the thing is that just, because I have actually been working on losing weight and I am not quite as large as Dave is, but otherwise, I look identical. And so, I went, no, that's, he just happens to look like me plus, like, realistically, probably about 100 pounds. - Yeah, I get that he's rounder than you, but I mean, when I play that game and I see his face, I'm just like, I think of you. - Oh yeah, no, no, you're right, no, it's accurate, no, it's accurate. Same thing with the comic book guy and the Simpsons. People will point at me and I'm like, yes, I get it. Yes, you're right. And I would, at the younger age, I would have been that guy who was like, no, no, no, let me tell you why Kylerainer sucks and how Jordan's better. Now, I only do it in certain company, not just out to the general public. But, yeah, Dave the Diver's fantastic. That game is my, I'm the same way. It started with though, my wife and I play that, so I don't play that without her 'cause I liked it, that's a nice shared experience. So, we play that together. But, yeah, Dave the Diver is fantastic 'cause every time the formula starts to get a little bit old, suddenly something new is introduced, which I think is the smartest thing that game does is it, okay, you got the loop down, you got the loop down. Oh, wait, now a boat pulls up and somebody's like, yeah, my dead father, there's a picture of him somewhere in the ocean, so make me this special food. I'm talking it through a puppet, so go get the little puppet looking fish, the Cleonese or whatever. And then she becomes a chef, which I did not anticipate happening. That was fantastic when she's like, oh, I'll work here now, I'm like, really, that's how it works. You're an orphan who I made food for and now you work for me. I don't know if that's legal, what country are we in? And so-- - But you just keep coming. - I still-- - Yeah, stuff like that. - Yeah, I think the gameplay loop is really cool. And I still play these games the way that I play open world games is that I do like to build my character up, even though I know certain things are locked behind chapter points and stuff, you can't upgrade your gun until you do this chapter two mission or whatever, that kind of stuff. But I still, I don't know why, when I enjoy the gameplay, like when I play open world games, like I'll just do, okay, if there's open world shit where you just run around fighting things and you get money and you can like kind of upgrade your gear and stuff, I will do those sorts of things instead of progressing the main story. And so I'm still, I'm not even that far in the plot of the, I mean, I know that the plot isn't huge in Dave the Diver or whatever, but you know, like I'm only at the part where I still have to pull a metal pin out of some rocks. I can now talk to the fish people, but I haven't gone back to the town. So, but I still just do the gameplay of just, I just go fishing, bring it back, do the sushi restaurant, make some money, upgrade my gear. So like some of my gear is actually upgraded probably further than it needs to be for where I am in the game because I like, I paid and got like the best harpoon and, and it feels slow, but at the same time, it's, it's kind of half relaxing in a way. It's just an interesting-- - It's not really good music too, which helps. Like the music when you're diving is really soothing. It's just got this kind of stay like, like that music, I kind of hum that to myself. That helps too, is when there's a really nice backgroundy kind of music that makes you want to be doing the main thing the game wants you to do. I don't know why so many game designers don't get that, that the music does reinforce if you're gonna have a repetitive game loop, then maybe have the music be appealing as opposed to either bad or too loud or missing, strange. - Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's a good, yeah, it's just been a, it's a cool experience. Like I actually just enjoy playing it. And I like that there's no time limit. I mean, there is for the fucking restaurant part, but like, you know, when you actually are fishing, like that's why it's been really satisfying. Like just, I upgraded my fucking carrying capacity and my harpoon and so like I can fish for a long time and it's fun. Like I like that it's kind of action-y in a way. So that part's interesting and I like the, I like how like everything's kind of like a nice little fun mini-game. I just wish you could do the restaurant for longer. Like I get that the point is that you couldn't, obviously you'd make like a billion dollars, but like I still, that's, sometimes I skip time just to get to the restaurant part. 'Cause I'm like, I wanna do the restaurant part. Like I find that part satisfying. And I would love to upgrade my stamina, but I feel like those are things that are not gonna happen in this game. - You mean the stamina when you're in the restaurant? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, you know what's gonna, I'll give you a little bit of a spoiler 'cause I'm kind of the same way. Is the restaurant part is the one where I'm wondering if something changes at some point because at this, where I've got it now, I don't have to do anything. I literally just stand there because the servers are all, I by the way played this game up until maybe a month ago and never realized that you could train the servers. (laughing) So my dumb ass is racing back and forth and I'm sitting there going, why the fuck can I not get a handle on selling this stuff? Like I was able to sell 'cause I understood how the pricing of the fish and upgrading and enhance, like I got that. But at no point, I kept putting hiring notices out. I must have a staff of 400 people at level one because I kept going, when are the better people gonna show up? I'm paying more money, where are these people? And they're just sitting there going, he's out of wasabi, should I do something? I'm like, motherfucker, I spent two grand to hire you. No, refill the, and then I happened to just notice on the menu, it said training. I'm like, fuck you, really? Yeah, sure enough and I had a bunch of money. So as soon as I did that, now I just sit there and they're like, the flash, every one of them is a different version of the flash and they're just whipping all over the place. And I'm sitting there going, there's really nothing for me to do here except stare. So is this going to shift where I have to take a more active role because I've maxed everything except for the underwater, your carrying capacity, that's the only one is it maxed and my oxygen level, which honestly, I don't even know if I need to max that out because there's so much oxygen that short of you fighting a shark over and over and over, which at this point I have the super flame sniper rifle, so I never even have to get narrow shark. Outside, by the way, if you never played David Diver, you're not going to be falling along, sorry. But outside of that, I've never run out of oxygen since the very, very early parts, I've never even been close because it's everywhere between the, it's only when I get cocky that, 'cause there has been a few times where it's very frustrating where I caught a lot of things and then there's a shark and I'm like, I think I can take this fucking shark and I can't. And then I die and I'm like, fuck me, man, I've been collecting shit for like 20 minutes. I call this tough and then this fucking game. You can take one thing back with you. I'm like, fuck you, holy shit. If anybody gets into this game is early on, what you want to do is have one of those underwater booster modules because when the shark charges you and you punch that, you can dodge it. I know there's a dodge mechanic, but it doesn't always kick in, so that is my tip to anybody 'cause it is a great game and I would recommend it to anybody. Get that little booster thing and so when you try kind of shark and you realize you're about to get chewed up, you can jump out of the way and then you can escape straight up and get to the boat 'cause yeah, it sucks to lose everything, that's. - I will say it has a similar thing where if you die, you lose all your, you have to go buy only one item back which always annoys me that you lose all your stuff just because you can get back to home before 2 a.m. You know, I've got 15 coffees on me. You're telling me I pass out at 2 a.m. Then what am I tricking all these espresso's for? - Yeah, I feel, I think the main thing about this was that when I started playing Dave the Diver it just felt like, oh, this is new. Like this is, I mean, obviously all these gameplay things have been done before, but there's something new about this loop. Like I've never played a game, like it's fucking, you're fishing and then you're running a sushi restaurant, like it's just, it's all weird and like, the weird pixel art, like animation flourishes they do, like whenever the chef guy learns a new recipe and stuff, like there's, there's so much stuff going on where I'm like, what a unique and strange game this is. And so that's, again, that's why I didn't think, there's just a lot of games where I just, I look at it and go, that might interest me. And this was one where I'm like, I don't, there's nothing about this that interests me really, like on a surface level. But I played it just 'cause I had PS Plus and it was there. I'm like, oh, fucking try it out. And like within minutes, just kind of like something, something about this game that makes me want to keep, keep at it. And so my concern for video games is just that, I've just been playing so much stuff where, this is what we talk about on the show quite a bit, is just this, like the past few generations just have had no character. Like there's nothing, every single game I play now is a game that theoretically could have existed on the PS3. It's just that they look better now and load faster. But the experiences themselves aren't that, sometimes obviously when the technology advances so much, it does change the experience a bit. Like there is something special about playing a game where you're like, holy shit, this is like photo real fucking 3D game. Like it does make it feel new or whatever. But the gameplay themselves for a lot of these games is like just, it's the same. It just feels the same. Like first person shooter is just feel the same. And that's the issue I have now. Is like I just feel like, the thing about the PS5 I like is I actually like the controller. Like that's the one thing that makes PS5 games feel new to me is like the controller, the way it rumbles, just has like a particular feel to it that I like. And it does set it apart from like playing the same game on Xbox or whatever. But it's, I don't know, it's like it's not enough. And that's my concern. 'Cause I just, every, it's like how much longer can they just keep on making the same things? And that's, yeah. - I agree because this is what I mean about the problem is they're pouring all this money into having ray tracing, which I could not give a shit less about. People are like, but look, you can look in the window and you see all the people walking behind you. And I'm like, I don't care. Do you know how often I do that? Never. The only reason I did it is you said do it. And I went, oh yeah, there's people walking behind me. I don't care if I can't see my reflection. - It's surface dressing. It's like if there was a gameplay, that's what I like is when there's a gameplay integrated with the new tech. So the PS5 controller, which I wish more games took advantage of, like there's this robot game, which I think they're making a sequel to now. - Astro Boy. - Astro Boy, Astro Bot, Astro Bot. - Astro Bot, sorry, Astro Bot. The, I still really like, even though the game that comes with the PS5 is like a tech demo game, but I really like the way that game feels and part of that is the controller. Like just a little pitter patter of his feet on metal that makes the controller vibrate in a certain way. There's all these things, but then no other company takes advantage. Like, I mean, it's almost like the Wii. It's like the Wii again, where when Nintendo makes a Wii game, they take full advantage of their stupid controller. And it's actually fun because they know how it works and what works and doesn't work gameplay-wise. And then a third party just uses the template and like, how about to punch? You have to swing and then you do it like twice and their swing mechanic doesn't work as well as when Nintendo does it and their game doesn't quite work with this the same way. And with PS5, basically the most I see other companies do is they do the adaptive triggers thing where it's like, you're shooting a gun and it's a little harder to pull the trigger for certain weapons and stuff. And like, that's it. And then when I play that robot, like AstroBot again, I'm like, this controller is doing so many things right now for this game that really makes it feel like I'm playing something new and fresh. And then the most other companies do is just make shooting annoying because you have to pull the trigger harder. - I hate that adaptive shit for shooting. I just want to hit the button and shoot. - Like there's certain, again, with AstroBot, there's certain times where the adapter trigger kicks in and I like it. Like it suits the gameplay and it feels cool. But then when other companies do it for their shooting game, it's just like, you're just making it harder to pull the trigger on this gun? Like this is stupid. Like it's not, it's not adding any fun to it. - That's what AstroBot did that nobody else, and they made it, the controller is part of the gameplay in a total way, whereas in other games, it's one part of it that we just use for one thing. So you almost notice it as opposed to it being organic. So AstroBot, the controller is so key to the whole thing that you just get used to responding with the controller. Whereas in another game, it's like, oh, I just have to do the trigger thing when I'm shooting, but everything else is like, I could play this on the Xbox and it would be the same. What's the difference? - Yes. And so I guess the reason why I brought that up was just because like I'm thinking about ray tracing, just thinking like, well, if there was a game where that was actually part of the game. So it's not just that it looks cool, 'cause right now that's all it is. It just makes things look cooler. But what if you're playing a game where like, there's a gameplay aspect where you're walking by windows in a city and you need to see something in the reflection. Like that's part of the mission, you know what I mean? And then it would become so much, it would just elevate it because then you're noticing the technology. But then it's also like, oh, you actually need it for this mission, like you're staking out something or you're doing like an espionage mission. And so as you walk, your character has to be looking away. So no one sees you, but you're actually like following somebody by looking at their reflection and the reflection is real because the game has ray tracing. So like, that would be an example where I'd be like, this is fucking cool and it's needed. But for the most part-- - There was a game, it was a game called the Medium that tried to do something where it had the two versions of the game running at once. But from what I saw, it was just not a very good game. But it was basically running two games simultaneously and kind of a split screen thing. I don't know if you saw anything on that game. That was the closest where I'm like, 'cause I actually had the, I guess we were in the current timeline, but then also the past. And they were actually running simultaneously so you could see what your actions were doing at different points. But yeah, if you had a thing where you were walking along and you looked in a window and you saw something and then you like jump through the window and the game then shifted into that world. I'd be like, oh yeah, all right, that's a gameplay element. That's, you spotted the guy you're after and by jumping through the window, you break into the other world and now that's the game. And you're in there and then you have to jump back out to escape or whatever where you're going back and forth between universes, say. And that's where the reflections matter. - Well, I mean, Ratchet and Clank kind of does that, right? - Oh yeah, that's right, yeah, yeah. I mean, what I'm saying is more like, what I'm suggesting is actually more technical. What you're doing is actually like, what you're saying is like an actual gameplay thing. Whereas like, I'm saying, what if you actually had just have real ray tracing and it's actually like part of the mission? So it's not, 'cause the thing you're describing with medium is it's not quite the same because that's like a designed experience, but it's like if the ray tracing actually produced the real reflection and you had to watch the real reflection. And so it's not a trick 'cause like the other things are sort of tricks, like the Ratchet and Clank thing jumping to portals is a trick, right? 'Cause you're loading a new area. And that medium thing sounds like it's designed whereas I'm thinking in terms of like, what if you actually just press start on ray tracing and then there's actual gameplay thing that's using simply that tech. 'Cause there's so much stuff that's like-- - The Batman, Arkham Knight scanning thing, but for ray tracing where you had to activate the power. - Yeah, but if it's real, like if it's like, what I'm basically-- - No, I'm just real, you're right, that's the thing is, you're right, ray tracing like it's thrown out as a, look what we can do, not a gameplay serving technology. - The best way to think about this is, what is the ray tracing equivalent of physics-based puzzles? So like, there are games where there's puzzles that are solved using the physics of the actual game. So like-- - Half-Life 2, the gun. - Yeah, and it's like, so that to me, that's when the technology where everything sort of, it matches up, where this is cool 'cause when playing Half-Life 2, it was cool. Isn't that neat, you like, you shoot the water and then the thing fucking wiggles or whatever. And also, there was gameplay connected to the actual physics. So there's not a trick, it's not like you shoot the box and then the code makes the box move six pixels to the left because that's, you know, the designers made it do that. They go, no, as long as you keep shooting this box, eventually the actual real world physics will put the box in the place it needs to be. And so, what I'm thinking in terms of that is like, in terms of ray tracing, how can you use the actual tech, where it's not a trick, it's just, but it somehow works in gameplay. And so like, 'cause physics-based, Half-Life 2, that's a great example. 'Cause that's like, when you first played it, I remember being, like, the idea of physics in the game were cool and it was fun to fuck around. And then when you found out, oh wait, there's actually puzzles that need to be solved that are solved because the physics are turned on, you know? Like, that's, that's cool. And I think it's been a long time since I've played a game where I had that kind of feeling where you feel like, this is a new experience and this puzzle only works because of, or this gameplay thing, only works because of this new thing. Whereas, now it just feels like the games look nicer and they load faster, but there's nothing new. Like, it's just, I'm just playing a nicer-looking thing, which is fine, it's nice, I like nice-looking things, and I like fast-loading times. But- - But you're right, because the games that I've been playing in the last, like, year or so have not been games that are really cutting edge in terms of their graphics. They've been games that, especially games that have me playing games I didn't like to play when I was younger. For example, Baldur's Gate 3, if you had told me 10 years ago that I would ever play this, I would say, fuck you, no way. It's swords and sorcery, which I have no interest in, and it's isometric, which I have no interest in. But, then I played Wasteland 3, loved the shit out of that game, and then when Baldur's Gate 3 reviewed so well, I thought, all right, well, I'll give it a chance because reviewers that I actually think know what they're talking about are saying this is worth playing. And I've played it now the whole way through twice because I wanted to see, and it's co-op the whole way through, which is also fantastic, so me and my co-host played it all the way through twice using different characters to see what the story elements were, and they are massively different effects on the story, which is also really impressive, because you don't get that a lot anymore, at least not as much as we used to, I feel like. And then I just started playing The Ascent, which is a twin-stick shooter, and I used to hate twin-stick shooters, but the aesthetic and the music is so good that I don't care, and I just learn to like it. And so it's kinda like, I still don't really love twin-stick stuff, but I love rendering around in this world because you can see, I mean, anybody who's a sci-fi fan sees all the influences, and they're mixed together really impressively, so you can be like, I got a little Blade Runner there, okay, I was a little bit of Ghost in the Shell over there, okay, I was a little cyberpunk in general, William Gibson elements, okay, and the music kind of goes around, and you hear little specific things that remind you of different soundtracks you've heard and different stuff that you know, but not to the point where it feels like it's just a empty reference. It feels like, no, they love this stuff, and they're melding it correctly, so it's working out really well. But again, those are two gameplay types. Younger, I never played twin-stick. I never played isometric. I hated isometric shit when I was younger. So why the fuck do I wanna look at this like I'm three-quarters of the way up on the screen? Put me in the person's eyes or make it third person like God of War where I'm right behind them. This weird God angle is pointless. That was my old opinion of it. Now I'm like, oh, I guess I would be it because I like these things. - No, I'm the same way. That's why I've held off on some of these. Like video games are different than movies in that I do feel like if everyone gives a game a 10, like it's going to be a good game, right? I understand there's certain subjective aspects to games obviously, but since so much of it relies on just the actual technical experience, when everyone says a game is good, it's going to be good. Now I might still be like, I don't like the fucking art aesthetic or I don't like the music or whatever. But yeah, so whenever I see like every website and every person to say like, you know, this is a fucking 10 out of 10. I'm like, okay, I know I probably will like it if I play it. But yeah, that's been my hold-off on Baldur's Gate as well. Just because I like-- - But it underscores the point too about the look of it too because Baldur's Gate is not the most graphically impressive game and it doesn't matter. Now, yes, I know it could run on a PS one, but it also doesn't look that far past a PS two or three. It's not, yeah, particle effects, I know people will say, no, it took to it, I understand. But what I'm saying is in general, if you looked at a game from the PS three era, next to Baldur's Gate, it doesn't look like it's two generations ahead. The ascent is a similar thing. So it isn't all about graphics, which I feel like became the thing for a while. Oh, it has to be that we have to harness all the power to have particle engines and reflect. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. You can make it look older and it's still gonna work fine. There's a reason why so many people still play Nintendo, Super Nintendo, Dreamcast, Sega stuff. It's not because they suddenly managed to up-resit the 4K, or if they did it, it looks like shit most of the time. It's because the gameplay was satisfying. So if you get the right combo, and that's what I mean about it, feels like a lot of this ray tracing and stuff is chasing the graphics demon, which will always become diminishing returns. Every generation, you see less and less of an improvement. So it's never gonna be about that. And the more of a call of duty every year, do they really look any different? No, not that I care to begin with because I don't care about military shooters, but I've looked at different ones. I'm like, which one is this? They all look the same to me. Oh, we're blowing something up. Okay, the guns got blur on it. I suppose there's that. Oh, that's from the one-fourth generations ago. Okay, well, I don't get it. Can it run crisis, do I care? I feel like I'm behind on a bunch of stuff as well. 'Cause like there's a, you know, I think there's still some games from like the previous generation that I didn't play that people loved. And so sometimes it's funny now that I will play a game that's not new, but it feels new to me. Like I don't play a lot of games like PS5, you know, exclusive titles. I just haven't gotten to a lot of them yet. And so whenever I do, it's like, oh wow, this is a what a beautiful game this is or whatever. And it's just, I'm always like a year or two late. So I know like lately I haven't been, graphics is not something that's disappointed me lately with anything. I mean, when the Fallout TV show came out, I went and started playing Fallout 4. And it looks fine. Like it doesn't offend me. Like I'm playing. I'm like before the update patch came out, I don't think this game's fine. Looks fine. Like I'm not offended by the look of this. I know it's like 10 years old, but like, if I like the game, I don't care. I mean, look, fucking gold knight's like my favorite game. So like obviously graphics is not, I mean, nice graphics are good, but I think maybe even some games, you know, like super realistic graphics might not necessarily be beneficial. Like I think about that when, when I imagine a new golden eye type replacement game, when some company gets around to making a first person shooter game that isn't about army men or zombies, which I mean, might happen sometime. I'm still waiting, but who knows? You know, I can wait another 20 years, I guess, when someone goes like, hey, you know, you know everybody loves fucking action movies and the 80s and shit? Like maybe we should make a first person shooter that's like that. And somehow we're still fucking 20 years out and it's never happened. But the, I don't know, like if I was playing like a split screen action game with a bunch of friends, sometimes there's something nice about golden eye just 'cause it's like it's simple and colorful. And so there's no confusing like where you're going or what the objective is or whatever. Whereas if, you know, if I was playing like a split screen game and everyone had a little square of like super realistic, you know, photo real graphics, like I don't know, like would that make it more fun or less fun if it was harder to, I don't know. I mean, I would have to see, I guess, I would have to wait till somebody actually makes something. - I completely agree because one of the things that I really liked about arcane games like Dishonored and Prey was that they had this very specific art style. So it was like a hyper realism. It was almost like a moving painting, like a moving oil painting a lot of times, especially Dishonored. And was it realistic? - No, but it was better because I remember it. I can think of scenes now, and I haven't played that game probably in seven, eight years, but I can remember parts of that game because when I walked into the area and looked around, I was like, oh, this is something that somebody put artistic thought into, as opposed to, you know, like I watched, when the Justice League game came out, the Suicide Squad game or whatever it was, I looked, I was thinking about that because I do play a lot of co-op with my co-host, and so we like to play co-op games that go the whole way through. And I started looking at reviews, and there was so much visual overload that I thought, no, I can't look at this. Yeah, it's impressive because particles are blowing up everywhere, and there's a bunch of enemies on the screen, but I can't tell what the hell's going on. It's just too much stuff. And that's, you know, and it's kind of like a Gran Turismo. Yeah, it's photorealistic, but I don't know. It doesn't look all that exciting to me. It's, I'd rather play something like, I remember, what is it, burnout? What are that burnout game where you'd crash into things that would just slow everything down? And there weren't even drivers in the cars. That's how ridiculous it was. There was nobody in the car, so who's driving this? It's like cars, but violent. And so it was great because it was something different, and it wasn't as, so was it as photorealistic as Gran Turismo 7 or whatever the current one is? No, but I don't know. Gran Turismo's always been kind of boring to me. It's just, all right, you're driving around in a car. That's nice if you like car sims, which again, if you're in the cars, I guess that's the appeal of it. Yeah, photo, yeah, the particle effects thing is one that I find distracting like, 'cause there's been a bunch of recent, there was a Tetris game called Tetris Effect. There's also, I'm a big fan of this pinball game for the TurboGrafx called Devil's Crush. Oh, yeah, that's a great one. Devil's Crush is awesome. In recent years, I realize now what it is I like, and so it's not quite a pin, I mean, it's a pinball game, but essentially since you don't see the whole play field, it is also, it's also very video gamey in that way. Like, you know, like when you move up, it actually like the screen shifts and you do little bonus rooms where you go into different places and stuff. And I like the theme, I like the music and all that. And so when I say that, you know, people will go like, oh, if you like that, you know, there's this new game called fucking whatever, I got it for free on Amazon. And so I finally played it. And it's like, you know, build as, you know, the game inspired by Devil's Crush. What the fuck is it called? It might be called Demon's Tilt? No, something like that. - That does sound right. I think that might be it. I do remember a game with that. - And it is, it's so filled with particle effects that I found it like unplayable. Like I'm just like, this is not quite, like I have a very specific thing. Like with Devil's Crush, it's almost like, I very specifically like that game. I'm not really into pinball games, but that game in particular, just I love that it's got an occult theme. It's just weird, fucking a pinball game with like druids and demons and stuff. It's just really funny. And it's got some of the best music I've ever heard. And part of me wants like, you know, that I'm building this arcade machine. And so I started looking into virtual pinball machines, which I know is beyond my pay grade. Like at least an arcade machine home build, basically it's a computer, a TV and a controller, right? So if you can build a wooden frame and find a way to shove those things in yourself, you can make your own arcade machine. But virtual pinball machines are very involved. They're full of actuators and little, like if you want a good one, you know where it has to have like 12 speakers in there for the sound effect of the ball going to the end of the court. And like it's got a bunch of fucking things in there to shake the machine. So when the ball hits like the left corner side, there's like a little thing that fucking hits the side of the actuators, not the word. Fuck, what's the word? - Like a rumble, like a rumble motor type of thing. - Yeah, it's a rumble. But it's like, what's the simple, like a simple rumble where it basically just does, it does one snap. - I don't know what it's called, but I know what you mean. - Yes, it's, there's a word for that. And, you know, the professional virtual pinball machines, there's like, you know, there's like 12 of those inside the machine. And then there's all these speakers in there and there's like three screens. And so I thought maybe I might build a very simple one, like just put a TV on its side and just have two buttons. And then I started looking into the software. And, but one thing I would like to see, is it sort of like, you know, the same conversation as like the PS5 controller, is I like when something takes advantage of the fact that like, this is not a real pinball machine. Everyone, they're nerds, so they're trying to recreate real tables, right? So that's the virtual pinball thing is all like, let's recreate, you know, play the Adams family and it's got to be completely accurate to the real board. But for me, I think, well, this is a virtual pinball machine, it's not a real pinball machine. So you should take advantage of that. And it would be cool to have games that like, they look photo real, but they also have weird effects going on that a real pinball machine couldn't do, because why not, right? Like it's this virtual, right? So like, you can do things like, change the playing field or whatever. And so what I want is someone to do devil's crush, but the way that it is on the Turbo graphics, but like, make it look like a real table. But since it is virtual, you also have the ability to then shoot into a bonus room. And then the screen changes. And now you're playing pinball in a bonus room, but you know, still have the realistic sound effects when you hit the paddles and stuff. And, you know, all that stuff. So it's sort of like a weird kind of hybrid game, you know? So it is pinball. You are playing on a vertical screen that's laid down. You try and keep it as real as possible, but then take advantage of the fact that it's also virtual so that you can do fun things that a real table can do. That's what I wanna see. But it's so specific in niche that I feel like I would have to fucking, again, it's like something I'd have to do myself. If I go on some forum and be like, make devil's crush, but make it exactly to my specifications. And then they'll be nerds like, you know, like, well, you wouldn't wanna do that 'cause a real table fucking you do this and that or whatever. And they ruin my plan. I'm just having a fictional argument now with a person that doesn't exist. - No, no, no, I agree though, because I had something similar because I love pinball too. I mean, it's one of my favorite things. And I think I, for five seconds, looked into, well, can you do what you're talking about? A virtual, like a build of it. And I was like, nope, not from me. This is way over my technical build. I can't even solder anything. I'm not gonna bother with this. But one of my thoughts was, has anybody made a Silent Hill pinball game where at some point it drops you into the silent, like you hit this thing and you see on the screen that the ball drops into the Silent Hill world, the rotted kind of rusted world and it changes the board and then the physics are different. And, you know, you could flood the board where now the ball has to go through water because it's flooding and if you can't escape in time, the ball drowns, I guess. I didn't think it all the way through. But I was kind of thinking of the same idea where, yeah, if you're gonna do a virtual version, if it's not real, it's not constrained by real physics, why would you not exploit that? Yes, okay, a real metal ball wouldn't do this. Well, if you want that, go buy a real pinball table. But if you're playing with something that gives you more options, why wouldn't you wanna use more options if it serves the game, if it makes it more fun, if it makes an inch? The whole point of doing something virtually is because you have more capabilities, right? I mean, we play video games because we can't jump across rooftops in real life where you'll die. So, you know, I don't wanna play a game that just lets me walk down the street to work. I do that so-- Yeah, I-- To be fair, I think there is, again, there is like a whole subculture of this too. It was too involved for me 'cause I started going on these forums of the virtual pinball people. And there is people creating new tables, so that's cool. But it seems as though, I could be wrong 'cause I'm not super immersed into that world, that the art of it and the idea of it is to create realistic-seeming tables. So there's people who will make tables now on new franchises or new movies. And, but it's sort of like, what if this was a real pinball table? So it's not necessarily about the fun of like doing weird physics shit or whatever. It's more just like, here's what a Ghostbusters afterlife table would be like. And it looks good, like, you know, they make it and it looks all photoreal and it probably plays well and stuff, which is fine. Like, again, that's that whole scene, like the virtual pinball scene is just like, that seems to be what it's about. But I would, I would personally like to see something that takes advantage of the fact that it's not real pinball. So, like you're saying, like that would be cool. But still, like, if you want to do it photoreal, like that's fun as well. Like what if, yeah, like you're playing the Silent Hill one and like, it actually looks like real water is like pouring in from like the corners and then like the physics of the ball changes when you're like hitting the paddle and maybe the paddles don't move as fast anymore because like it's full of water or whatever. Like that'd be cool. I don't know, I don't know if there is that that kind of creativity in this scene, but maybe there is like, I just, again, when I saw how complicated it was, I still might do it. - But even a simple level, 'cause to go to your, your Golden Eye thing, imagine you had a Golden Eye table where you were playing 'cause, honestly, I didn't play as much Golden Eye as most people already did. I remember playing it a few times, but I know there's different levels 'cause you're kind of, aren't you mirroring more or less the movie's story as you go through it? - Yeah, yeah, basically. - Right, so imagine that you had the pinball table and every time you hit a certain score, the map changed and now you were in the next level. So it's still a pinball table, but now you're kind of going through each of those levels, and then there were different objectives and different things that you could maintain all the pinball physics, but that the game should just keep changing. So yeah, if you want to make a completely one-to-one recreation of like the Adams family, yeah, go for it. But there's no reason that you should be upset that somebody wants to mess with it. That's kind of your back to your idea of why would you do it this way? Well, because it's fun, because when you can do these things and you have the ability and you have the desire to do, you should be able to, why not? Why can you not have a one-to-one Elvira table that functions exactly the way that it did, but also have one that's a GoldenEye table where you go through eight different maps on that board and even to the point where certain guns would affect the golden ball. The golden ball couldn't ever go down the, you lose thing, right? Because the golden gun was the super gun, right? That was the one where when you had that, you could just one shot everybody. Was that, am I getting that right? - That is correct. - Okay. - Although, it's a shitty gun. But like the, yeah, no, that's the way it should be. I think, and to be fair, maybe there's people doing this sort of thing. I mean, I didn't spend too long, you know, on these forums. Like, once I saw how complicated it would be, I was like, no, I'm out. Now, I might still do one just for fun, but it would be not a complex, it would basically just be a TV on its side. I mean, like, if I, and then like, just buy two USB fucking clicker buttons for like the, the panels or whatever. I mean, that wouldn't be hard to do. But it also might miss the point of what makes playing a virtual pinball machine cool, but they're even, because they're more expensive than the arcade machines. So like good, I mean, I know those websites are expensive anyways, like even for the, some arcade builds, you know, where they'd be like fucking four grand and they gotta be shipped to you and stuff like that. But like the, the pinball ones, like the high end virtual pinball machines are expensive. Because like, I, I looked into it. I thought, maybe that's the one I'll buy. I won't be able to make one, but they're way out of my, like I, you know, I think it's fun and fine, but unless I was rich, I'm not dropping, you know, $5,000 on a fucking machine that's going to sit in the corner that I'm going to play for 20 minutes once a month, I just, I don't think that's, that's where my money needs to go. Yeah, that's ultimately, I've looked at real pinball tables a few times and I'm like, I can't justify this. I mean, it's just, it's, would I love to have a real pinball machine? Yeah, I would, but would I play it enough to justify how much real pinball machines go? And for the space, no, I can't realistically do that. But would I love to? Sure. I mean, if I had a house twice the size, I'd have a whole pinball room and I'd also have a whole theater and everything else because I'd be rich and I'd have a, you know, mansion. But in real life, you have to sit there and go, what am I, that's kind of the same reason I never got even as far as you did in starting an arcade. I had the same idea at one point. And then I just went, I bought one of these little handheld game boy looking ones and loaded ROMs out and I'm like, you know what? This is fine. This is enough. And it's way less and takes way less work. So it's, it's, I even an arcade one up. I'm just like, yeah. Yeah, this was a lot of room. This was more about the project, I guess, 'cause I, I did look at arcade one-ups. And the only thing is they are a little too small. So even though they, they do look good, like they look like arcade machines, but when I played on one, I remember thinking it felt wrong. Like they look good from a distance. And if I ever had like a home arcade, I probably would buy some, but they would more be for just decoration. Like it would, for ambience, if I had an arcade room, I would buy them to line a wall with. So when you walk into that room, just like those people who make like, turn their basement into a fucking video shop or whatever. Right? It's mostly the, it's the aesthetic that's fun. It's like, oh, this is cool. This looks like an arcade. But then when you actually walk up to an arcade one machine and you realize like, oh, these are kind of small. Hey, it's weird, especially if you wanna play two player, but you know, ironically now, even though this machine was homemade and I was using a piece of plywood that we already had that was the, that's like the main wood of my machine is basically this piece of plywood that's just been in my dad's basement for like 20 years from like some old renovation project. But all the money I've put into it so far, I think now I have officially put more money into this than had I bought an arcade one up, but my machine has a 32 inch screen. It's solid, that's the one nice thing. I probably use the wrong kind of wood for this job 'cause I use some pretty thick plywood, but it is, it's very sturdy. So it feels like a sturdy thing, which is nice. I still have to finish the marquee. That's like the last piece of the puzzle I have. I just bought some acrylic sheet. So that's again, like getting overwhelmed by all these dumb projects. I have all the pieces now to finish the arcade and I don't wanna do it just 'cause it's like, oh, fucking spent all day cutting. - Now it's the work. So it's fun when you get the piece, this is why I didn't, I used to build all my computers. I used to get all the parts and I do it over the course of the year and be like, all right, start with the stuff that won't age out and then you end up at the very end, you get like the processor because that's the thing that's the most time-affected and I would spend a whole week putting it together. And the last time I went to do this, I was like, oh God, I, you know what, I don't wanna have to price all this stuff out. I don't wanna have to make sure it all is compatible. And I finally, it's the first time in my life that I bought a pre-built machine and I was thrilled to just turn the damn thing on and be like, yep, it all works. Somebody else tested it. Somebody else made sure it didn't have any problems. They sourced the parts. They didn't have to worry about the motherboard getting fried when they touched it because they didn't have a static thing. I could just activate and it just does what I wanted to do. And it was, there was a part of me that went shit, man. I'll never probably build a computer again. And I miss that because there is a fun to that, but I'm also like, man, I'm in my fucking mid 40s. I don't, I don't know that I care anymore. You know, it's a lot of work. - Yeah, I have no real interest. The only time I've ever done stuff like that is just if the price really, like, yeah, like I'll, I get that said, I mean, I've never built a machine from scratch, but you know, like I'll get new RAM or I'll get a new video card. - So your arcade thing is the version of that for you. And that's what I mean about, yeah, I understand that whole, all right, I got all the parts, but then when you get to the part of, oh shit, now I gotta put it together, this is gonna take a while. And it's tough to kind of mentally shift into that with the excitement of getting the parts. And then envisioning, this is where it'll look like when I'm done. Like those two endpoints are the best parts. The beginning when you're gathering the stuff up and then the end when it's done, but the middle kind of sucks. - It was also, yeah, and it's also been like a bit of a adventure anyways because I didn't have any plans. So that's why I've had to make the marquee, now this will be the third time, which is kind of why I don't wanna do it. 'Cause I've already like cut out these stencils for letters that I'm shining lights through. And I basically fucked up twice now because I've had no plan. So I'm like, how am I actually gonna make my marquee and what material is it gonna be made of? And I've been trying to use as much recycled shit as I can. So like in the basement, we have just old things where I'm like, oh, I could take this piece of plastic from this old sign and cut a square out and use it here or do that, like that's the way my brain works. Like at first I always try and find things I have first before buying stuff. For projects like this. And yeah, I just keep fucking up this sign. And so I'm just, I just, there's something really annoying about doing the same job for like the fourth time. Like I've cut out these stenciled letters for my marquee. And I've done this now several times. It's like, just keep fucking up. And it's really annoying, like cutting out letters with a fucking exacto knife. And it's just really tedious. And then to do that job, four times is like, I just don't wanna fucking do it, whatever. I mean, like with computers, it's like, you know, I'll replace RAM and I'll do maybe a new video card. Like that's as far as I can, that's like my expertise is like, I can plug things in. I can unplug a drive and plug a new drive into a PC. Like I can do that. I can do RAM. You know, if I'll do that, that makes sense cost-wise. But building a computer from scratch is a little too much. 'Cause then I just read like, and then if you've got this motherboard, then you have to, can only be paired with like this processor. I'm like, nah, I'm done, like. - Yeah, and that's what I mean about when I was younger, that was fun. 'Cause I had more free time. And it was more kind of like, oh yeah, I have a whole afternoon to waste on this. So yeah, I'm gonna go around, I'm gonna spend four hours researching what parts I want to kind of maximize the performance. It makes, and that's fine. I mean, it was, I had a lot of fun doing it, but I'm just at the point where I'm like, yeah, you know what? I kind of wanna jump over the middle part. I want the excitement of I found the right machine. Let somebody else build it for two weeks, and then I can just power it on. So it is a similar thing. So I understand that kind of, yeah, I wanna make this thing, because I know it's gonna be. - Yeah, the only thing that, the reason why I always get excited about that stuff is mostly just cost. I'm not so much interested in building a PC as I am saving money. - Oh, and it's, yeah, and that was other, you're right, that was another aspect is to buy the parts and put it together is half the price of buying an assembly. - Absolutely, if it's a cost thing, it is worth it. There's no question that you will save money, but you also then have a lot of time invested. And if something doesn't work, you're screwed. I mean, not screwed, but you would have to resource and replace the parts. So there's-- - You know the other thing? Work to it. - Yeah, I think for me, the price differential for me personally was never enough to justify the work and research I would have to do if you also factor in that your time is worth something, 'cause I don't know anything about assembling computers. And so when people would say, well, don't buy a new, buy all the parts, it still is expensive if you're trying to build, like, if, for me, I would be trying to build a good computer, right? That would be the point. It wouldn't be to build a mid-range thing. It would be like, no, like, I don't wanna spend three grand on a new PC. And so when you start sourcing the parts, it's still going to be a machine that's gonna cost in the thousands, it's just not gonna be as expensive as buying that new one. But then there's a part of me in my brain where that math doesn't, like, I get, yes, obviously it is cheaper, but to all the research and all the things I would have to learn to do it, it would have to be a lot less for me to go, yes. Like, if it's like, I'm not gonna buy a $3,000 PC, but someone says, I can source you all the parts on Newegg and it'll only be 650 bucks. Then I would do it, but if you're still building a good machine, then it's still gonna be like, well, the video cards are grand. And the fucking, you know, and this motherboard, the good one is 500 bucks. And this process, so it's like, it still ends up being cheaper, but you're still buying so much that a, that part of me just goes, ah, just fucking buy the new thing. Like, it's, if you saved a shitload, then it would be different. Then my brain, the switch would flip. If it would be like, you can build a $3,000 computer for $500, then I would do it in a second. And I would learn everything. - And the trick of that is you can, but you would have to do it over the course of six months to a year, because what you would be doing is waiting for discounts on the parts that don't age, like a hard drive. Hard drive isn't gonna age in a year. It's not gonna become any less, the space doesn't go down a year from now. Whereas a processor, you wait a year, well, you've lost a lot of processing power, so you can do it, but it is, as you said, it is that thing where once you realize your time is worth something, especially as you get older and your hourglass is starting to be inverted, you're like, okay, do I really wanna spend a year on this as opposed to spend more money, but have it in two weeks? So it does, it is an age thing, there's lots to it. But, you know, that's what I mean about, I finally got, I finally crossed that line. There was about a, when I got to that point, that was a kind of looking in the mirror and seeing the lines on your eyes and going, oh yeah, okay, I'm at a stage of life where I'm like, yeah, I don't wanna spend a year building a computer anymore. And there was a little bit of a sadness to open, I'm like, whatever, still got a great issue. But I mean, like again, if it's fun, like, that's, yeah, 'cause I'm sure there's a lot of these hobbies that people just enjoy, I mean, 'cause I say that, right? Like just, I don't have time. And then I will find myself like, have I just been like just scrolling on Instagram for like two hours? So obviously I do have the time, right? Like there's a lot of things, but, you know, obviously you don't do it if you're not super interested or it's not super fun at this present time, then, you know, then that's cool too, right? I guess we change, you know? Like maybe at one point it was really exciting to build a PC and now it's just like, it's this time of life where it's like, maybe this just isn't the hobby that it used to be for me, you know, that's fine too. - And that's what I'm saying is I, all this stuff is, you know, your entertainment, your taste and everything can change. That's fine, it's things shift and that's okay. You can evolve into something else and you can, so it's, I understand exactly what you mean about the arcade cabinet. I thought about it for maybe an hour once a while ago and went, no, and that's, but that's because that particular thing wasn't as entertaining in construction as putting a computer used to be. So I understand that the thing where you're like, you know, you want to get it done. Yeah, redoing a marquee or anything. I mean, I did that with one computer build where I bought RAM off of eBay three times because I kept buying where I thought was cheap RAM and it probably was because it was shorted out. It didn't work, it kept blowing. So, you know, that sucked 'cause I spent a bunch of money in time on it, but anyway, I don't know where it was going with that point, but whatever. - Well, at least computers are useful though. Hey, like that's the, 'cause for me, I just know when this project is finished, I have built a novelty thing, right? So that's what it is. Like, if anyone comes to the house, I do have some friends will play arcade games when they visit, but like, you know, when you're old, I mean, like I see a lot of my, if they're close friends from childhood, it's like twice a year, you know, maybe. And, you know, when you play an arcade game, it's you play it for 30 minutes and then you're done. And that's essentially what I'm making is I'm making a novelty thing that we will play for 30 minutes once a month. But you know, whatever, it's a thing to do. - If it entertains you, then you should do it. That's, that's whatever. It's like everything else. If it's not hurting nobody and you're getting something out of it, go for it. - Yeah. - It doesn't matter whether it's trivial or not. If it's making you happy, there's, it's such a miserable world, 75% of the time that if you can squeeze happiness out of there, 25%. If that's building an arcade cabinet, if that's loading custom firmware on your router, building computer, I'm just saying it's whatever, man, 'cause people do have different interests. So I don't wanna sound like I'm discouraging people. If the idea of building a computer is exciting, then you should do it. Absolutely, go for it. I just have realized that there's certain things for me have shifted. And so I understand what you mean about the cabinet and you're just sitting there going, I wanna get to that endpoint, but at the same time, it's hard to generate the interest. I know exactly what that's like. And it's just, it's, I think it just to be out. For me, computers are a utility. So it's more just about the use of the thing. And so when it comes to building, it's more just like, what can I do differently with this machine, right? Whereas like the arcade machine is a fucking, it's a goof, right? I mean, it's just gonna be a, you know, so I don't know. I mean, I don't care what they look like either. You know, I would assemble a computer with no case and just have fucking wires and motherboards hanging from the ceiling if it worked. I guess that's probably bad to do though. Whereas I paid for a custom front plate with my fucking illustration logo on it because I wanted it to be Monochrome because I'm an asshole. But that's what I mean about, hey, I love looking at that thing. For some people, that would be an absolute waste of money. I look at that thing and it makes me happy. So. - Dude, yeah, when you fucking looking at, dude, we got these Persian cats. And I just like looking at them. And like, it's been, I've never paid money for a cat before in my life until the two that we have. And I always thought that was like wrong, you know? Like, no, when it comes to cats, you get free cats, right? People have kittens, you get a free cat. And that's what you do. And they're always tabbies and they look the same. And these stupid things, like I just can't stop looking at 'em. And it makes me happy. And I've got more pictures of my cats in my phone than my children. In fact, I don't have like any pictures of my kids. Like when I look at my phone, it's all just pictures of my cats. And they're just fun to look at. I like things that are fun to look at. - Yeah. (laughing) No, seriously, no, I mean, we were jumping, but that is something where I, my stance when I was younger to where I'm now older is. I'm like, man, if you're having a good time with it, who gives a shit what I think? If you like country music, listen to it. I can't, but you can. Go for it. If it's, if that makes you happy, then listen to country music all day. I will be off somewhere else listening to something separate because I don't want my ears to start bleeding, which is what they will do if I listen to that. But that is not any indictment of what you like. It's just me, in my opinion. - God, there's fucking shitty music, man. - Yeah, and it always has me, it always will be, and it's just the way it is. - I'm in a small town, and so our local radio station is, that's country, kind of, one of those top 40 slash country stations, and oh my God, there's fucking so much shitty music. - But you know what, that's why the internet's so great, because you go and find people that you like their stuff, and you can support them, and you can-- - That's why just, the job of DJ, I was thinking about that, like what a weird, 'cause there's some DJs now, like radio DJs, that names I recognize, just because when I was a kid or whatever, like this whatever, like think of a fucking fake name, or fucking I'm fucking radical Jack or whatever. And I think, what a weird job, at this point in time, to be like a top 40 DJ who's probably thrown to the same songs, like thousands of times, and I just think like, what is the point of you? Like what is the point of you now? I get some people maybe find comfort in a name radio banter, which is fine, I guess, but I think when I think of like Beyonce and what I do there, it's like yeah, like every episode I'm playing new songs, like we don't repeat unless I have the guest on whose music I played, but like on my playlist, it says like, you know, in my music, I will highlight songs I play on the show, and it says like played on the show, so I don't ever play it again. And I just think, what a weird thing it is to be like a lifelong radio DJ, and then exist in the year 2024, just like, 'cause we had the, when I drive with my wife to go shopping, she was telling us you'll put the radio on, and I'll just think, whoa, so this guy just says it's a named thing, and like, no, it's time for "Heart of Glass" by Blondie, I'm like, dude, you've been a DJ for 40 years, you've probably thrown, you've probably said that sentence, you know, like, and now let's listen to fucking Blink 182, like you've said that now 8,000 times, you know, it's like, what a weird job to have, to just, it's so strange, 'cause the radio basically plays the same, like, if it's a top 40 station, they've been playing the same, you know, maybe 120 songs for the past like 30 years, right? Like, it's the same songs, and I find that so weird, you know, 'cause to me, the excitement is playing new things, and like, that's the fun, but I guess like a top 40 DJ is a different job, like people just wanna hear stupid, like, did you hear how much J-Lo has to spend for Ben Affleck's house? And then, now here's "Heart of Glass" by Blondie, you know, it's just like, I guess it's maybe a comfort thing that it's like comfort food for people that they want the same songs that are sort of, I couldn't do it either, the idea of having to always, I just, I mean, it's the repetition. - It's the repetition of a show is such a train wreck, it's because there's no plan, and the reason I like there being no plans, because I'm afraid it'd be the same all the time, so. - Well, that's the, again, it's a whole, I don't, everyone's different, so, but I don't find the comfort in listening to the same music over and over again. Like, there's songs I love that I listen to a lot, but there's some songs that are just so overplayed, they bring me no joy, but then like, my wife will, like, they come on and she gets excited, right? So like, whenever like fucking, who sings "Behemian Queen," right? "Behemian Rhapsody." You know, like, so when that song comes on and everyone starts singing it in the car, and I'm just like, that's just not for me, like that whole thing, where it's, I get it, but it's like, dude, this song, we, I've heard this song like a thousand times in my life, and I've never played this song, like, it's just, these songs just exist in the air, you know, like just the most overplayed top hits of all time, and it's not a bad song, but I don't get excited. There's nothing exciting to me when like a song that's been played on the radio a zillion times, but then like, when the DJs have to announce it, that's the part that to me is like the insane asylum. - Generating the fake excitement for it now. - Yeah, I just see for the more thousand times. - "Behemian Rhapsody" by Queen, yeah. Let's rock out like I've done for the rest of my life. - They do that, yeah, like, that's the thing, we're just like, what a weird job. Like, the radio station that's near where we live. I've never tested this, but I might just waste some time one day and do it, I don't care. You know whenever you do something fucking dumb, and there's like, you fucking spent all day coming up with that, like, doing some inane thing or research on something like, yes, I did. - Scribe the whole podcast, buddy. - But like, I love when people use that as like an attack where like, you spent all your time trying to deconstruct someone's argument or whatever, and it's like, you spent all that time doing that, like, yes, I did. Now let's fucking reckon with what I've come up with, all right? Like, you're not gonna fucking win by saying I just wasted my time. My life is a waste of time. Like, you don't win, that's not a win, all right? We're all wasting our fucking time. But I'm gonna go on this stupid website and really just, maybe I'll just feed in the chat GBT. Like, if I can get the playlist and just give it to chat GBT and just like just show me how much repetition, how many times do they play this song, blah, blah, blah. And because I think their playlist is maybe 100 songs. And then that's it. And it's just on a loop. And there's periods of time where I was driven crazy because I was hearing the same songs all the time. Like, you know, my example is always "Black Velvet" by Alanna Miles. But lately, there's been other songs that now I'm adding to my list. So I do have like a list of like my most hated songs. (laughs) I'm like Richard Nixon, I've got my fucking list. And so I just added "Rockstar" by Nickelback. So that's made the list. 'Cause I've had to hear that a few times in the morning 'cause like my wife has the alarm that goes off for like six when she has to go to work. God, waking up at six in the morning to fucking Nickelback. And I know it's a try to say Nickelback sucks. But holy fuck, they've got some songs that really do suck. Like suck hard. And it's that fucking song "Rockstar". I just, (laughs) just try some nuts. And so now I have my little notepad. I open up my phone and just like add that song to the list. Like yeah, that song's gotta go. A lot of classic rock stuff. Like there's a lot of songs that like I don't like but I don't have like animosity towards. You know what I mean? Like I just, okay, I don't love this song, fine, whatever. But I'm not, I don't hate that it's on. So my list is purely for songs that like when they come on I'm like fuck this fucking song. And what else is on there? Hold on, where's my list? And my fucking list on my notebook. There's only a few songs on there right now. But "Rockstar" just got added. What do I call my list? And I'm looking at my notes now. Like an idiot. Fucking new note. Passwords. I thought I had a fucking list that just was like shitty songs unless I pinned it to the top. Anyway, whatever. You get, you get, you get the point. - Oh, I know, I know I'm the same way. I understand. But you know what, that's probably actually a good place to wind up, is that I've been talking to the Richard Nixon of hated songs. - All right, here we are. Nickelback, "Rockstar". Oh, this might be controversial. I don't like, we're not gonna take it by Twisted Sister. I've heard that just too many times in my life. I'm done with it. It's not like I hate it. It's just. - No, but it's everything. They use it for every, it's one of those, they use it for everything songs. It's like you just destroy it when you do it that much. - There's a song from finger 11 called "Paralyzer", which drives me nuts. I'm not gonna sing it for you. And there's a song "Magic Man" by Hart, which gets, I don't like that song. - I like, but about 10 seconds of that song and the rest I could do without, which is weird. I have that with a lot of songs where I'm like, just that one part's good, the rest sucks. - Yeah, there's, I've been thinking about that too. I was gonna come up with a list. There's like a bunch of songs famously, like, famously, like famous songs that I like the first part, but then don't like where it goes. And like some examples. I talk about this, well, that's right, 'cause I haven't put it out. 'Cause I'm doing some podcasts now that are just gonna be for the Patreon. And so one of them is a series I'm doing with color theory, 'cause we're both Depeche Mode fans. So we're just going album by album. And that's gonna be like a Patreon exclusive just because if I put that thing on YouTube, I'll just get copyright flagged in like two seconds. And yeah, this is a point I brought up in that show was, yeah, there's a Beach Boys, the Beach Boys song fucking good vibrations. I like the open harmony. - I'll take California by the Eagles. - Well, it's got, that's a hated song. That one's just a pure hated song for me. For me, it's, I'm thinking of songs now that are the ones where I like part of it. And then the song goes in different direction. And so with Beach Boys, good vibrations, I like the first part where they sing this nice sort of chorus bit. And it's like, I love the colorful clothes she wears or whatever. And I like that part. And then the song takes this like hard turn where it goes into the- - Oh yeah, 'cause it's slower. - I think about good vibrations. - Yeah, then it speeds up and it just becomes repetitive. And it's also, it's like, sometimes I feel like there's just songs where it's like, it's two songs sandwiched together and I don't see the through line. You know, it's like it's the Beatles song Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds. Does it as well? Where it like has a, it starts with this sort of melancholy kind of tune and then it just does this hard pivot and then goes into the rest of the song. And so there's a bunch of songs like that where like, I really like the beginning and then it just switches. But in the case of heart, it's just, what is it? There's something about the way she sings. There's a part that drives me nuts and I think it's in the chorus I'd have to listen to remember. But I know it's one of those songs that comes on this radio station fairly often. And there's just this part of the chorus where like, I just, my wife, this is so disinterested in this, where I'll announce to her. Like I just like, all right, this song's going on the list. She doesn't give a fuck. Like she doesn't even, some people like overall, it's like, okay. Well, I think for her, she likes that there's background sound and almost the more complex or interesting that music becomes a distraction for her. So like when she's driving, she puts on the radio because she doesn't think about it. But my problem is-- - It's driving white noise, whereas you're listening to the song. - Yes, where I listen. I'm the same way with fucking arguments or weirdos who say weird things where that's why I would always cut people out of my life who are like super like conspiracy theorists and stuff. 'Cause I feel like they're not thinking about what they're saying. They're just crazy and they're just into their worldview. But I actually think about what they're saying. So then I'm left with the burden of the anxiety of everything they said and they just get to go on their merry way because they don't actually care. - They don't care, yeah. - Right, so like, oh, they're gonna put us all in camps. So then I'm sitting there thinking, well that would suck, right? So like I'm left with the anxiety of thinking what a horrible world this would be. And then they just go like, they proclaim to believe all these fucked up things. And then they just go about their day. I'm like, but if you truly believe what you just said, why aren't you digging a bunker right now? Like how can you live if you truly feel that way? And so for me, I'm the same way with the music on the radio. It's like, I'm the one who's sitting and stewing in the passenger seat, like as the radio's on going like, fuck this song. And it's like my wife hasn't even like hearing it. And I'm like, aren't you listening to this shit music? Like I'm that guy. Like I'm just like, I get all animated. I'm just like, are you not listening to this fucking song? Like, did you hear those lyrics? Like what is stupid song? And then my wife wasn't even, it's like she didn't even hear it. And so I'm like the one left being like this fucking annoyed idiot where like, I'm, you know, like I'm working myself up for no reason because nobody else cares. Anyway, what is that fucking part of the song to drive the heart? My magic boom, boom, boom. Oh, it's the try to understand bit. Oh, she goes, try to understand, try to understand, try to like that part fucking drives me nuts. I hate it every time it happens. I'm like, I fucking hate this part. Like it just, so that's why it's on my list. I've put band on the run on the list as well. There is some, just some wacky nonsense in that song musically that the other day, again, I think about it. So there's songs that have bugged me all my life, but then I intellectualize them one at a time. And like the other day I just thought about it. And there's so much music that we hear that we just don't think about. We're like, we're not, we just know it annoys me kind of in the background, but I never think about it. And then I'll focus. And the other day band on the run was on, I made the proclamation where I'm like, you know what? This song sucks, fucking hate this song. And it's going on the list. But I can't remember why I put it on the list. There's a, there's just some gibberish musical things that happen in there. I think like some weird instrumentation and some kind of nonsense melody bit that, anyway, whatever. Okay, you're trying to wrap up. So do it. - Oh, no, no, no. I actually, I have enjoyed this absolute demonstration that you are the Richard Nixon of music, which is fantastic because, you know, I don't think I've ever talked to anybody else that I could say that about. So this is the best part about doing these shows is always new things. - Yeah, yeah. - We'll wrap up here by saying that if you want to hear a show where nothing repeats unless it's specifically done for intention, then you can go over to beyondsynt.com and listen to all of Andy's back catalog on there. If you like it enough that you want to throw some money at it, which I always find to be such a weird visual, but people say it all the time and I like it. So if you want to throw some money at Andy, don't do it in the street. Do it by going to patreon.com/beyondsynt. That is correct, right? You don't underscore anything, right? - When I went and bought Grand Theft Auto 5, there was $20 on the street. I found a $20 bill as I was walking a game stop. That was awesome. - It's always great to find money. Just don't whip change out of my guess. - Yeah, but I'm just saying, one day I found 20 bucks and that was pretty fucking cool, so. - So for more stories like that, (laughing) I mean, I'm trying, for anecdotes, like finding money on the street on the way to buy Grand Theft Auto and for great music and fun people. And I liked these shows where you're branching out a bit like the, was it Mark Edwards? Was that one of the ones that was-- - Yeah, his fucking, his videos are really funny. That guy's got funny videos. And Rob Hill, who I just had on from Bad Movie Bible, his videos are like really top notch stuff. Like, I know I said it on that show and I mean it. Is like, there's a lot of things where people, you know, will think I would like it. Because like, well, you like video games, or you like bad movies, you like this and that. You'd like these guys talking about it. And so much of that content, I just can't stand. Like, I will try and I'll watch these YouTube ones. I'm like, okay, like these, their personalities aren't for me or whatever. But his videos are great. Like the fucking writing's good, they're funny. The editing's great, the clips choices. Like it's top notch, excellent. YouTube comments, or content, if you're into like B movies and stuff like that. I don't know why I'm fucking promoting him, but whatever. (laughs) - Hey man, when things interest me, I love music and I love Sint Wave. And so I'm always gonna be like talking to artists and stuff. But I also, like I said on that episode with him, I don't want to do a side show. I don't want to do a side podcast. And so, you know, it's still beyond Sint 'cause we still listen to Sint Wave music in between talking segments. But, you know, when I see like cool stuff that gets me excited enough that I reach out to the person 'cause I want to talk to them, I don't want to do fucking, you know, the side thing. Even though I know it's useful for people and especially with YouTube channels where it's like they don't want to clutter their channel with stuff that is off brand, I don't know. I'm just a bad businessman. I'm just fucking, it'll be beyond Sint. I don't care. I don't care. Look, intentionally or not, you pick the right title to allow yourself the flexibility because it's not called only Sint, it's called beyond Sint. Therefore, you can do whatever you want. That's the highest part about the word beyond. It means whatever. So. - Yup, Dean, I like the way you think. There you go. - Well, that's, I don't hear that often, but I'll take it. So, yeah, beyondsint.com. So, Andy, thank you for coming on and rambling for awhile and dulging in my completely inaccurate list, which luckily we dumped right away. So. - What else did you have on there? - Let's do it, let's do a fucking fast. I'll do one sentence for each point. - Okay, ready, here we go. - Yup. - Let me open the PDF up here. So, peep, okay, I did that one. - Clothing thoughts towards the end. - Clothing's on, nope, it got nothing. Your list, this isn't for me, this list, but let's keep going. - Well, no it is, and I'll tell you why, AI Seinfeld. - AI Seinfeld was really funny, and then he said an anti-trans joke, and then they canceled it, and the new one my son falls asleep to, but it's, they've gone self-aware. So, if you watch it now, nothing forever, it plays creepy music, and it's-- - Yeah, it's not good anymore, I stopped watching it too. - Yeah, it was, it was, I actually found it really funny when it was AI Seinfeld. To be honest, I also found that bit funny because it was like, it's like, oh no, they're gonna get canceled, like they're gonna fucking, although-- - No, you knew that wouldn't get away with without something, 'cause it was, oh boy, was that-- - Yes, 'cause that was a moment where I'm like, again, 'cause I, you know, like I talk with Rob Hill, like I am capable of laughing at things I don't agree with, and that moment made me laugh because I'm like, they're fucked. Like, that was the humor of it for me, it was just like, oh, they went there, like, you let the AI make shit up. Although, part of me thinks that maybe they did it on purpose, 'cause that was like a publicity thing as well, 'cause that generated a lot of-- - Could've been. - But their new version isn't as-- - No, it's not as good. - No. - Let's see, I got two more. No AC, meaning I guess that you don't have their conditioning. - Ah, okay, so I did buy a portable unit, which, as of buying it, we have not needed. I've set it up, so one room has one of those ACs where you run the stupid big corrugated pipe thing, I got the window, corrugated? The right word? - Oh, you need the tube with the ridged tube thing. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, I think I just corrugated is correct, I think that's right. - So, I did buy one, and it is set up, but we have not used it, but it's only in one room. We live in sort of a large house, but it's old, and so it's very inefficient. Like, I know whenever my dad would have this place assessed for like energy efficiency, it gets like a fucking 1%, right, 'cause it's like an old Victorian house, and so it's like, there will never be a central-air thing in this house, it will never happen. So, the most we can do is just, you know, every summer, 'cause it's gonna get fucking hotter, so like every summer, we'll just fucking invest in another machine, for another room. All of our windows are inappropriate, 'cause they're the windows that open outwards, so like, we can't have any of those window units, 'cause they will not, you know, there's only like two windows in the house that do the one that you're actually, you know, you know what I'm saying. So anyway, one room has one, so if it gets so hot, it's unbearable, I guess the family will just pack into that one room, and we'll have a family day. - And finally, the PS1 startup sound is the best startup sound for any system. - I mean, it's a good sound. I never owned a PS1, but I do, it is a very iconic sound. - I love that sound. - I don't know what else I would necessarily compare it to, 'cause there's the GameCube, but again, that's more childish, like the PS1 is like a, it's sort of an epic opening noise. - Yeah. - I'll agree with you. I don't know what else I would, 'cause the newer ones are more ethereal, right? Like all the new systems always start with like a-- - Yeah. - The dreamier, they're not as good. - Yeah. - They're not as kind of, this is a great system E as that one is. - Yes, yes, and so it's got some bass in it as well. - It's like it's a big fat sound. Yeah, I'll agree. - It's only one I like listening to on headphones. I'll put it back. - Sounds great on headphones. - Yeah. Yeah, right? 'Cause none of the other, the fucking Nintendo one, the Switch does like the snap noise, doesn't it? - Yeah, that's it. It's just like, that's it. - I feel like it's also a lot of the systems now we miss out on that because they're kind of perpetually on. Like my PS5, I always put into rest mode, I don't turn off. And the Switch is kind of always on. Like whenever I turn it on, it jumps right to the menu. So I guess maybe we're just in the era that, well, there's the Xbox one, right? The Xbox, the sort of swirly green line that flies into the circle for the 360 games. Not as good as, no, you're right, I agree. - Well, always end the show when somebody says you're right and I agree. So on that note everybody, thanks for listening, go to beyondsynt.com. And that's it. Have a wonderful weekend, whatever you choose to do. (upbeat music) Visit OzoneNightmare.com to subscribe to new episodes, browse through our back catalog, or to find links to support the show. Follow @OzoneNightmare on Twitter for the latest episode postings and other show information. If 280 characters just isn't enough, you can always email us, at ozonenightmare@gmail.com. Music for Ozone Late Night is provided by Ogers. Visit ogersounds.bandcamp.com to hear and purchase his fantastic selection of music. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)