General Talk
36: Episode 36: Army Apprentices Part 1
We are sitting on the edge of Southampton water looking across the city of Southampton as we look out, the Viking bravery, a car carrier is going out, we are surrounded by to our left we've got container ports everywhere and containers stacked high and over on the other side we've got ocean city and the cruise line of terminals. But we are here at Marchwood. Tell you about Marchwood Port. Marchwood has been around since the Second World War and this port was essentially a launching ground for D-Day. Since then it has been used for all military shipping operations and has been occupied by 17 regiments since 1949. Welcome to General Tool. The Army with Urban Funds monthly podcast, I'm Harry Bakker. The Army is the top apprenticeship employer in Britain. Followed by BT, the Royal Navy, Price World House Coopers International and the Go ahead group. Irish, there are 13,000 Army apprentices on the scheme at any one time, training up on 37 different standards or job qualifications. In this and the July edition of the programme we focus on a key element of soldier training and development, the Army apprenticeship programme, the journey that will take us from the military port of Marchwood to London and in July to the Gunsler King's Trooper or Horseterie and the Gunnery of the Rodegoon Guards on Castle Martin Ranges. As we talk to soldiers and then instructors about their experience as apprentices in the making. To begin, I'm joined in Marchwood by Lieutenant Nathan Cosgrove, Yankee troop commander, 5-2 squadron, 17 port of military regiment, Rod de Secord and two soldiers in discharge, both apprentice port operators, Private Robert Brooks Wardle and Private Ellis Feathers and in London by Colonel Caroline Emmett, Assistant Head for Learning and Development in the Army, who is the policy lead of the Army apprenticeship programme. I'm sat here with Private Robert Brooks Wardle and Private Ellis Feathers and you are both on the Army apprenticeship programme and so as a port operator, what is the role of a port operator? So we deal with the like the vehicles coming in and off ships, we lash them down in containers as well so when they come on come on ships and go off ships we deal with them and make sure they're secure on the ship. How many ships do we get coming in a week? It varies from time to time. All that really busy periods where the ship will be absolutely crazy and then there will be slightly more quiet. 5-2 are actually taking over shipping at the minute as well so we are due to be on ship and duties so we're going to be the home squadron and then 5-1 are the away squadron so we'll be basically taking over the ships so we'll be a lot more busy and now we'll be taking over ship more frequently won't we? Did you join the Army? Did you expect coming into 17 port march home version or did you think you're going to go to a normal logistic squadron driving lawyers up and down in the means of hybrid? So when even a selection process so even before you're at base training you kind of know where you go in so you select your job role or they so much they really offer you the jobs that are priority jobs as well and port operator was one of them. I personally thought that sounded interesting a bit niche and a bit unique which is why I went for it. Why did you think it was unique? What was the attraction to port operators do you think it was other than by the sea? Yeah so I thought it was more by the sea I liked the element of like the navy side to it as well at the time I was kind of this is before I joined the army navy was one of my options as well so I liked the idea of being in the army but doing more of a naval role obviously it is an army but it has that element to it as well and no other job in the army has that. What attracted you to the armed forces in the first place? So my dad actually served 30 years so it was always in the back of my mind he was a medic because I brought my medical combat medic so it was always kind of on my in my mind to do it I was 25 when I joined so I was going into a little bit later but yeah I liked the idea of being in the army I'd had that kind of background growing up as well so it was quite uh it wasn't new for me. And how about you role what made you always join the army? Um so when I was looking I wanted to join the navy first my dad was in the navy so I was going to sort of follow in his footsteps of that and I was going to join his and my clearance diver but then I was like doing my research on the army and I looked at port ops and they they they do a lot of diving as well and I was what attracted to me to join as a port as the dive inside of it. You feel family thinking about joining the army? Um they were proud of me um for joining um they they were happy and it was you know something that they wanted me to do. Law was in any battle actually you should have been joining the senior service. No and and the role we're looking at here we can see behind us some guys on a mexie float you presumably work off the mexie floats a lot as as Steve adorsing she's getting back in our two ship bringing the kid and material off. What's the list? Yeah they're also used for beach ops as well um so the ship will be out in the sea and they'll load the vehicles onto the mexie. Now the mexie will come down bring it onto the beach they'll come up to the beach and then we'll put a truck way out and then the vehicles on the mexie will be loaded onto the beach. What stage should you understand that you were going to become apprentices? So uh I actually found out when we was on our class three so when we're on our trade course um a man called John Strike who was actually stationed at marchwood he told us all about the apprenticeship. It was optional as well so he kind of told us all about it and then we had the opportunity to sign up if we wanted to and obviously we both did. So why did you sign up Ellis? So I liked the the opportunities it it sort of presented I like the not only is it a transferable skill after so when you want to leave the army I can I can continue doing the job because it's a civic qualification also you get your functional skills whilst you're on so if you didn't achieve um a sea level higher than English and maths at school you can do it on the apprenticeship so I needed my maths so I got it and that's all done now so not only have I got a qualification in my maths I'm also going to gain a civic qualification in this job as well. Rob how about you when did you learn you're going to become apprentices and why did you accept it? So for me it was the same time when I was on my fourth class three um I again I accepted it for the for the civic qualification like to be able to eventually leave the army and go on to doing this in a civic street and that's what attracted me to do it. But if you didn't accept the apprenticeship you used to be trained in the same way so should you have the same qualification when you'd asked? No because of how it works um so obviously if I didn't accept it I wouldn't get the print like I wouldn't have the qualification after the year and finished so I wouldn't be able to use that. And what does the qualification give you? What or apprenticeship as a board operative what is actually qualified to do? So it qualifies you to drive forklifts um JCBs um other stuff like that um I'm due to go on my uh keyside crane course in July as well. And we've got two keyside cranes here they're pretty normal. They're both lifts with the keyside cranes so I'm part of a boat lift team I've done that about three times so I've seen the way they operate but I haven't actually operated when you're going to learn them come out anyway. I will yeah I'm hopefully going to be on that course as well. Rob how long did it take to become a keyside crane operative uh two weeks and you're up in that in the in the cab on your own up there and you're a huge amount of responsibility. How long will your apprenticeship take to complete? So I started it on the 13th of October last year and it would take 366 days to complete um so that's not just a year. And you get a level two port operative apprenticeship so that's what the civic qualification is. And that means you can go and work in almost any port around the country. Absolutely. But it requires a lot more extra work on your on both your parts and that assessment is done by your non-commission officers in your troop and squadron and presumed yours in the direction but presumed outside also there must be some form of external validation of your work. Who does all that? So um it's when uh when you have your three assessments that you've got practical so someone comes and watches uh is three hours long so they actually watch a new work on the ship uh there's a 45 minute question um knowledge test so it's multiple choice um so there's there's that element to it then the final element is a discussion which can last anywhere between 15 to 20 minutes um oh sorry it's 15 so 15 to 20 questions in in the space of 90 minutes so it's kind of like a discussion so they'll be asked any questions and sort of testing your knowledge on that they'll come up with like sort of not debates but just just discussions really um and then out of that you get rather a pass a fail distinction that's how it's graded. Now because you've got this extra training does that mean that your your career prospects are greater within the call Rob? Um I would say so yeah. Will we see you with a strive on surely? Probably uh how about you guys? Yeah so um on the apprenticeship you you cover a lot more as well so uh you you really sort of dive into the to the world of port operators where there's things that you might not cover if you're not on the apprenticeship so I definitely think it's worth doing just for the extra knowledge that you're getting which will always help you in your role. How do you find the extra work is that is that uh is that uh is that uh is that to get in the way of your normal life or do you find that it just comes hand in glove with with a job? No so you you have to obviously put the effort in it's the same with anything you have to actually turn up and do the work so the where we do it is uh the education center so again this with John Stryken he he's an export operator as well he was posted here at 17 and he really helps you understand it goes goes over things with you so and then we'll upload it on a system called one file so if you're sort of you know you have to really put the work in like I said earlier and you have to make sure that you're regularly updating your one file and not just leaving it so even if you've done something like you know relatively minor a lot quite small or just like a few hours of training you then go into the education center update on your one file and that's that's how the apprenticeship works it's it's logging all the effort and the work that you've put into it. Rob how stage is your one file? At the moment it's not up to date. Let us how about you? Yeah mine's pretty up to date. I'm pretty like sort of vigilant going in there. I'm actually going to go today and upload because we we are on ship monday where we we actually done a little bit of training as well like I said earlier five two swatch and i've taken over shipping so we had like a training day just to sort of re-familiarize ourselves with all the equipment and just the job itself so i'm going to then go into upload that on my one file today that i've done that. Thank you for being at sea or being on the land? Being at sea for me. Yeah same for me. On ship. That's why i'm really glad that i'm doing the job that i do because you know obviously the army is known for its field work but and being field soldiers but i think this is is such a different element to it and and i really enjoy that i like that it's different i like that it's a real niche role and as port operators you all pretty much stay it's like one big family you're going to stay in this regiment pretty much all the way through aren't you exactly yeah and what what what for you guys as your apprentices what's the most moaning aspect of the apprenticeship that you find that that that that that because you must because it's the most challenging element of the work you're doing at the moment. I would have to say it's the continual learning um it's there's a lot of in terms of health and safety that we have to do um and knowing the job role as well so not working shipping for a while you get skill-fade and then you've got to re-learn all of that like how to lash down vehicles and stuff like that is it's quite a demanding thing i have a few of it. So for me it's definitely the fast paced element of the job so especially when you are new at the job and obviously we work on quite a tight timescale so you know we want to work safely as we can but also as quickly as we can and so keeping up with that when you are new to the job can sometimes be quite demanding it makes you kind of not panic but you want to you want to do it safely but you also want to you want to do it quick. What's the best what's the best fit for your own deployments travel and where you've been to is it as far as it is so last year i deployed to Cosmo in Albania um and then i also went to Greece like deploying is different to a holiday in terms of like you have a you have to keep up with a like an expectation of being in the army um and like there was people around that knew why we were there and it was like the expectation that we keep is professional but i like the fact that um like you said earlier we're we're at this regiment and we we pretty much do our career here but i like that because it does feel like kind of a family um you know it's it's quite a small but you know unique regiment um but that is a big reason why i chose this job role um and i i think it as well is that one of the best parts of of bread and Nathan your your troop commander the anchor troop what what are the benefits for you having apprentices in the troop uh i think the main the main benefit for for the troop and for the regiment in general is is the uh it improves the offer so if you if you think part of the the offer of the army is you come in uh and you'll you'll do your service and you may spend your whole career uh your whole career in the army you do 22 years or or or longer or you may um decide to only do three years but in that time um you can get yourself some civilian qualifications that will help you when you leave and i think that's the the big benefit is it improves the offer and it it attracts people to trade such as this where where that is an option uh and it helps them on on their future careers uh when and if they decide to leave well i can say it is some private Edith's feathers private Rob Brooks Wardle the turn Nathan Conzgrove to the pair of you two the very best of luck and achieving your apprenticeship and the three of you thank you so much for your my guess on general talk this morning here at marchwood thank you very much for coming in and so to London where we pick up the conversation with Colonel Caroline Emmett whose responsibility is to oversee the diverse army apprenticeship program the army didn't become the largest employer or apprenticeships overnight what was the first apprenticeship when it was first introduced so i know that it is a hundredth we are celebrating our hundredth year of apprenticeships but i think that's modern apprenticeships because as a senior marine officer rightly pointed out at the national apprenticeship wards the Royal Navy is being offered offering apprentices since the the 1800s one could or seven or 18th century one could argue and they were pressed going not well exactly um but in in terms of what we recognize as a friendship today we would say that we've been doing it for four hundred years but i couldn't exactly tell you what the first that's that's some some track record you you talk about how how the army is developing its own apprenticeships and and and it's apprenticeship schemes and do you also cross pollinate with other large employers apprentices like bt yeah um again the the probably two crossover main crossover points either regionally through the ambassadors network where we will share practices ideas that's where the bake off came from but also as i also mentioned through the through the trailblazer group so for some of our more cyber related signals related apprenticeships one would expect on the trailblazer group there to be be to be formed from a part there and that's where where the relationship with wider industry come comes into play the army at the moment as as we know sadly it is it's having problems in in keeping its recruiting numbers up using the apprenticeship scheme helps in in terms of of the offer that the army can give to to people wanting to apply to join the army yeah so i think so so from from an individual perspective so from that for the soldier themselves what they're getting out of the apprenticeship is they're getting valuable skills for their role to enhance what they're doing in role for in uk in on operations that's both technical and transferable skills so and by transferable skills i mean things like problem solving and decision making working within teams into personnel skills but first and foremost really gaining real confidence in role in your specialism and the the wider ability to lead from the start of the career in apprenticeships enhance that i think also and what we call gatekeepers you know parents and wider family are not very or very keen on ensuring that that that their sons and daughters or if they're joining the army um being recognized for the skills etc that they're developing i mean join the army and travel the world was always a catch but join the army travel world and be trained in the process there is an even better catch surely it is but it's not it's not just so i would emphasize that it's not just for the individual soldier themselves there there's a reason why the army's decided to do this and it's it yes it is obviously it improves the offer and therefore is supportive of recruitment but over and above that we need high performing and technically astute operators if of whatever specialism we need that now and we need it in the future we need our soldiers of the future to be active learners because what the 2030s onwards say about what warfare is going to be we need people that can upskill and reskill at pace that requires people that can learn quickly on the job and apprenticeships enables that early on and that's why we'd always seek to expand expand the program and more widely than that there's a wider benefit to society the army ethos is join well serve well leave well and and you you already mentioned mentioned that so when i sell to apprentice or soldier because they have achieved their apprenticeship when they eventually leave they reenter the national workforce with stem qualifications with those transferable skills that i mentioned and that's what other employers also looking for so that's win-win situation um for you you've got 13 000 people that you need to be careful you've got their training infrastructure what are the great challenges that in running the apprenticeship organization with the army for you so i'm very lucky in that i have a big team and i i have a competent team and that that's before up frank you know i'm the sro sat up in army hq the cap edges or actually run it you know they do so the core kernels are integrally involved in leading their own cap edge program or programs be it be it what they are so i manage the overall portfolio but on on a day-to-day basis it's a cap edge but but but it's not one has to be sure that the benchmark and the standards are are maintained and how would you assess it is that you are the benchmark effect for you at the top of the the top of the organization how do you how do you keep it out of pace uh so we have lots of as one would expect uh uh quite comprehensive governance structures in place uh with the usual as again one would expect risk performance quality management uh type measurements uh that that that that we look at uh regularly and um externally things like offset which the army was the apprenticeship program went was offsetted last september it was assessed as good it was the biggest um offset inspection that offsetters have done in terms of distributed training so we had around 20 offset inspectors that came um to visit the army across the UK uh so it was a big beast in itself to to organize and whilst the army is very familiar with offset duty of care type inspections this is the only education inspection that that offset actually do akin to to school type inspection here we'll talk about how how the army is developing and so it's an apprenticeship scheme what's the latest one you're working on what's the one that's coming up that the that you who say is has has become a requirement for it and how are you how are you bringing it about that so the exciting one that's coming up that is hot off the press actually is we are for cineonsio so mainly war and prophecies i think at the minute we are going to trial a level seven so that's postgraduate apprenticeship in as uh which is called the senior leader apprenticeship and it will come with an MBA qualification as well and we will be offering that to our senior soldiers or trialing it to see whether it you know start small check the check that it's right we will are targeting a trial for that from september 2025 car new who've now been the army for forever quarter of centuries sounds a long time for it that way you have been deemed this job as assistant head of of learning and development for the army for over two years and you're coming to the end of your time before moving on to to fresh opportunities and fresh fields yourself there are 37 different trades available as an apprentice in the British army today if you know your time again which one would you choose which one would i choose hmm that's interesting so when i joined i really wanted to join the Incor that's no longer the case so if i was to go back what would i want to do do you know i want to do something completely different maybe so my husband is an ex avionics technician i'm quite fun and i have to listen to him on a daily basis talk talk to me about aircraft still what i quite like to come back and be an aircraft technician and show him how easy it is show up Colonel Caroline Emmett assistant head of learning and development with the British army thank you for actually me my guess on general talk and my thanks once again to Colonel Caroline Emmett Lieutenant Ethan Cosgrove, Private's Rob Brooks Wodle and Ellis Feathers for sharing their insights into the army apprenticeship program for information on how to join the army search army jobs in your web browser if you enjoy this podcast would like to hear more then visit the growing library of past editions which can be found at armybleavenfund.org do join us next month the general talk marks the 80th anniversary of d-day in a special program featuring some max Hastings general of old riches and general some Michael Jackson before we pick up the apprenticeship trail once again in july as we venture out just stable and ranges and until then for me harry butnell thank you for listening and farewell my thanks to Adrian Paton for the service of Kathmills and Neil Curran, the stewardings by Michael City Army this has been a GameCube production with the army of Remmett Fund