The Rise Up, See Red podcast

Cardinals training camp reactions after 1 week

Jess and Seth are back to talk about the first week of training camp for the Cardinals. They go over the team's health and Kyler Murray's maturation as a leader. They talk about camp standouts and discuss what they still want to see in the weeks to come.

Duration:: 53m
Broadcast on:: 31 Jul 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

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This is the Rise Up C-Red podcast, all about the Arizona Cardinals and the NFL. Featuring insider and outsider perspectives, enjoy the best hour of Cardinals Talk on the Web. Now, here are your hosts, Jess Root and Seth Cox. Hello Arizona Cardinals fans and welcome to the latest edition of the Rise Up C-Red podcast, Mr. Of Cardinals Talk on the Web. I'm your host, Jess Root, from cardswire.com. The USA Today and the Go Wire site covers areas on the Cardinals, and back for a normal regular show with Seth Cox from RevengeOfTheBirds.com, as Seth and I now do the regular show. If you've been listening, if you are subscribed to the show, which I hope you are, no matter what it is, whether it's who Spotify, YouTube, Apple podcasts, things like that, you will notice over the last week since the start of training camp, a new feature to the podcast. And that is daily audio updates from Howard Balzer as he attends training camp. I'm there, I'm there not as often, because I've got the day job that I do that doesn't work, because I'm teaching high school in Gilbert, writing articles all the day long, but I can't get up to Glendale for that. And so Howard, as more of the beat guy for cardswire, he will give audio updates, like little 10-minute episode-type things that you guys can listen to in addition to the content you read on cards, or in addition to the content set. And his staff have over Revenge of the Birds that you can get right to your device. Listen to Howard talk about that. And that's a trend we anticipate happening through the regular season, as well as he will be down at the Cornell's facility at the Dignity Health Training Center for practices and such once the regular season begins. Seth, we are a week into training camp, and it's largely been positive, right? This has been one of the most refreshing, positive-out off seasons that we've seen and heard from the Cardinals in years. And it's not even like one of spin. It's just that it's been pleasant and training camp, thus far, has also been pleasant. Yeah, I mean, it's been interesting how they're doing things. I think we're getting used to the new system, so to speak. And I think we're learning about this regime, which is something that you and I had talked about quite a bit. Like, how are they going to work these guys? What's their plan? Thanks for that, nature. And we're starting to see that come to fruition. And, you know, it looks like this is going to be a team that has a lot of talent, but it's also a team that's going to still be a little thin at a lot of spots. And so that's kind of what we're seeing right now is like, there is a drop-off, and I don't think anybody is surprised by that, right? Like, there's always going to be a drop-off, but it's just interesting to see how much it's already obvious. Yeah, one of the notable things as we start off is how incredibly helpful. And again, we're going to knock on wood here, as Jonathan Gaddit, and we knocked on the podium the other day. The Cardinals have been incredibly healthy, you know. It's normal, and it's starting around the league. We're not only little injuries, but big injuries happening in the camp. The Cardinals, as of Sunday, when I was there for the season ticket holder practice, had all 90 players available. Not any of them. There was no one who was injured, like even John Gaines was suited up. He got reps in practice. And so he's ramping up, but there was nobody who was out doing injury. That, for me, that's fascinating. And then an interesting thing about the schedule, because as we've seen in years past, there are rules that govern how many practices a team can have consecutively. And usually after that early ramp-up, then the second week of camp is usually the most grueling. Traditionally, we would have, like if they report on a Tuesday, they might have practice Thursday, Friday, Saturday, or Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Four days, no pads, and they have a Sunday off. And then they go into a five day in a week with the pads going on. So like Monday through Friday or Monday through Saturday, you might have six days in a row. This year, and last year they did that, they did the ramp-up. They did a long week in that second week. And then you kind of ease into a preseason schedule where you have three days of practice and then game prep. This year, the Cardinals are going with no more than three consecutive practices in a row. So they reported Tuesday, had practice Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, off day, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday practice, off Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday practice this week. That will be the red and white practice Saturday Sunday off. And then they will do, they'll get ready for that first preseason game against the Saints. But it's been healthy, and I can't think, Seth, of another year where the Cardinals won, didn't have anybody fail their physical. And two, didn't have even minor injuries to start. Yeah, and I think a lot of it comes down to this is a team that's fairly locked in, right? I mean, and we've seen it from the beginning. And I wrote about it a little bit the other day, and it's never a good thing for kids to get injured. And obviously we have to be excited that that Padamari seems to be completely back and healthy. But it also seems like this injury, and I don't want to say a wake-up call, but it unlocked something in him that was there, but also that he needed to embrace. And that's just this unrelenting work ethic that he's all of a sudden displaying. And it's not that he hasn't had it, but remember the biggest criticism was that he wasn't around enough, that he wasn't doing enough for everybody else's opinion. And now all of a sudden it's like, I mean, I think you would agree, it's basically the complete opposite, like this guy is not just locked in, but he is just a complete maniac to which we not seeing. And we knew he was a maniac, but it was, you know what it feels like? I mean, one, I think the injury gave him the sort of adversity he needed to overcome. But I think it also, I can't overstate the change in the leadership of the team. When it came to the general manager, you and I know that there were some differences that Kyler had with Steve Kime. And I think that affected how locked in he was sometimes. And while Cliff Kingsbury, he liked, I think Cliff didn't give him the specific focus and direction as a coach to lock that in. And Gannon from day one, challenged Kyler and Kyler is responded. And I think it was one, changing the leadership of the organization, two, having him overcome that adversity, and three, having a real responsibility like expectations given to Kyler other than, hey, you're our guy, just go make us good. And being given that sort of responsibility and 11 maturity. And it's finally, it's good to see finally. I know people are saying it shouldn't take it until year six. I think part of it is just either needed to grow into it. Yeah, and then sometimes that's what it takes. And that's what people are saying is that there's a symbiosis that happens with great quarterbacks and great. Becoming great. And it's rarely in a situation where they're not, I don't want to say lockstep because that's probably a little too strong a word, but you rarely see poor coaches and you rarely see bad gms. And you know, you kind of look at the guys that have been at the top or the best, and you know, we've talked about obviously, Patrick, my homes are not much else you need to say about that. But you look at like Josh Allen, right? He's had Sean McDermott, his entire career. He's, you know, I'm pretty sure that Brandon Bean has been the general manager the entire time he's been there. And so it's, it's, you know, those, that continuity helps, right? You know, you look at Lamar Jackson, I know they went from Aussie to whoever their GM is now, but you know, it's basically, it was a, it's basically a, you know, one-to-one swap up, right? Erector Costa came in, Aussie left type of thing, no animosity or anything like that. You know, and you go back and you look at even obviously Tom Brady. I mean, it's very rare. And it's, it's usually just the, the guys like Tom Brady, well, not even Brady, but like Peyton Manning and those guys who, who kind of get away with having, you know, because they're, they basically, their skill set is above that, right? And, and not say that colors isn't or anything like that, but this is a, you know, this is uncharted territory. And so for him now, like you said, there's this cohesion and this trust that we just haven't seen before. And, and to see it now, to see the, you know, belief in, in each other, the trust in one another, it is a completely different, it is just a completely different guy overall. And that's just not something that we've seen. And, and now we're seeing it and it looks, you know, it looks completely different. It looks like a guy that believes in everybody and they all believe in each other. And that's something that is, that is unusual, but also hard to find and hard to, to kind of explain why that is so important for everybody, right? Like, yeah, everybody being on the same page and trusting one another is just not something that you see very often. Interestingly enough, it's kind of, because Kyler, the truth is, is that I think what it was is that Kyler went from, you know, finding his way in the league to having his guys to finally opening up to all the rest. Rather, you know, I know he, he tried to do that a little bit early on in his career. And when we go back to what was it 2020, 2021, we tried got when he got a got a bunch of guys out to, out to Texas, Larry Fitz didn't go for whatever reason. We had a number of things, but I think this is the first year, and like last year, this year is where not only was he like, he had his guys, it was Chase Edmonds, it was, it was Christian Kirk, it was Zach, he was locked in his guys. And then last year, it started opening up and he still had Hollywood, which is his guy. And this year, he embraces everyone. It's that you remember Kelvin Beach has said he needs to grow up, you know, he's a man up. And that's really what he was this. He needs to open up more to his other teammates. He's, he's not only being a good teammate to the playmakers, the guy he's comfortable with, he's reaching out to the younger players, to the, you know, fringe practice squatters and the guys like that who, and he's welcoming them as well, which is, it's kind of fun. Yeah, and it's just something that, like you said, he needed to get to, and it is just one of those situations that when you look at it, it's about the growth of the player. And as long as they're not stagnant and stuck, I think you can be okay with what, you know, letting the process play out. And that's what's happened. And, you know, now you look at it and it seems, it seems positive, but you know, obviously the proof will be in the pudding and what we see on the field. The Cardinals did have one injury. Their first injury of camp happened on Tuesday. And that was Senator yelled a frohold who went down with the knee left practice. It appears that it will be fine. He was seen walking out of the stadium without any brace or sleeve or wrap and was walking fine. He walked off on his own power. Howard said that he was told by a source that, that yelled is going to be, he'll be okay. The Cardinals have a, have an off day on Wednesday, we back in practice on Thursday. Perhaps they will give him limited, they will limit his reps a little bit, depending on what is going on with that me. But one thing that did allow for is, and we did get to see rookie Isaiah Adams with the first team as Evan Brown slid over to center. And Isaiah Adams came in and played left guard for some first team reps as did John Gaines, second year pro out of UCLA. And Gaines on Sunday as well got first team reps at left guard. So he, he is starting like, and in my first 53 man roster projections that was noted, when you see guys that with no injuries on the team sneak into the first team, you're like, okay, okay, I see you. John Gaines, okay, looks like they like what they're seeing. Isaiah Adams, they're giving him an opportunity. You know, I, we always felt that Isaiah Adams was going to make the team anyways, but John Gaines was like, well, we'll wait and see. And so we got to see that. Although Seth, you did note that when Evan Brown went to center on the first team, the offense didn't look as good. And that's the one thing at the times that I saw. And I know this is partly because I was there without pads. The offense basically did whatever they wanted against the Cardinals defense. And that was different in Mondays and Tuesdays practice with the pads on that so much with Tyler, but with the, with the backups, the defense of backups, we're getting making plays off the backup quarterbacks. Yeah. And then, you know, that was what I talked about earlier. Unfortunately, it seems just like it is a, it is a very, very quick fall off. And, you know, we talked about it in our group chat. It just seems like this, like with, with Tyler, this team looks like they can compete every day without Tyler. It looks like this could be a long, long, long year. And that's, and that's kind of where, you know, you try to figure it out and see how things will work out. And, you know, right now it's early. And so there's nothing to worry about. There's nothing to get concerned about. And let's be honest. Most of these teams are going to be awful if they don't have their starting quarterback. So, you know, but like we said, this, this is not a, this is not a team that can withstand missing a guy like Tyler for, for very long, you know, and it's unfortunate because Desmond Ritter is obviously brand new. Obviously, Clayton toon, you know, is not, has not been. He was a fifth round rookie last year. Yeah. And didn't look back. He was not particularly impressive. And, and that's the reality of it. I mean, when you're talking about, when you're talking about, you know, fifth round rookies, it's, it's very rare that they're successful. You know, so we'll see how this goes. But right now, you know, the, the offense with Kyler looks again, just and I have talked about this ad nauseam. It doesn't mean anything because it could just be that they're awful. The defense is awful. But they look borderline dominant with Kyler. Yeah, the passing game is, is looking sharper than we've ever seen the passing game. Well, and that's just it, right? This is, this is year two, but this is also the first year, and somebody brought it up. Like you think about this. Obviously, one of those off seasons was 100% Kyler's fault. You know, you know, they're, they're odd off season with the odd situations and, you know, the mini holdout until he got paid and all of that. And then, you know, it's over and done with now. So we're already to move on. But, you know, you look at it and this is really, I mean, honestly, his first fall off season since his rookie year. Correct. Correct. This has been a, yeah, COVID and, and then obviously, like I said, the mini holdout situation. Yeah, well, like, we can detail the 2019 rookie year. He was a rookie 2020 no off season COVID 2021. Most veterans, the NFL PA told the players, Hey, don't go. And Kyler didn't go mostly because he was in lockstep with the, with the players union with the veterans on the team. Then 2022 was, of course, the, that was the contract year. And that's the one that got all the attention last year was hurt. And now this is the, yeah, this is the first time he's had a healthy off season when he's been there for the whole off season. That's been, and that's been fantastic. That's been, that's been a big difference. Coming to next on the rise up here podcast, best are Cardinals talk about what let's be on talk about who are the camp standouts thus far, who is standing out, who stock is rising. That's kind of an extra recipe, right? Ryan Seacrest here. When you have a busy schedule, it's important to maximize your downtime. One of the best ways to do that is by going to Chumba Casino.com Chumba Casino has all your favorite social casino games, like spin slots, bingo, and solitaire that you can play for free for a chance to redeem some serious prizes. So hop on to Chumba Casino.com now and live the Chumba life sponsored by Chumba Casino. No purchase necessary. VGW Group. Void where prohibited by law. 18 plus terms and conditions apply. If you're a facilities manager at a warehouse and your HVAC system goes down, it can turn up the heat, literally. But don't sweat it. Granger has you covered. Granger offers over a million industrial grade products for all your operations, including warehouse HVAC maintenance. And even better, they offer access to experts and fast delivery, so you and your warehouse can both keep your cool. Call 1-800-granger, click granger.com, or just stop by. Granger for the ones who get it done. Save on O'Reilly Break Parts Cleaner. Get two cans of O'Reilly Break Parts Cleaner for just $8, valid in-store only at O'Reilly Auto Parts. We're back on the rise of seared podcast. This is our Cardinals Talk on the web, talking now about the Cardinals players who are standing out thus far. It's mostly been on the offensive side of the ball, but names keep coming up that are kind of obviously. Kyler looks great, but you look at certain positions and early on in camp, like everything about Marvin Harrison looks like. It's like it's going to be great. And Greg Dorch keeps making plays, but guess what? Remember the offseason we wondered what it was going to be? Zee Jones is going to be Zee Jones is making plays, and he's going to, it looks like he's going to cause playing time problems for the receivers in the room. Well, and this is just such a good thing. I wrote about it today or yesterday. I don't have everything blends together. It's Tuesday and everything's blending together right now, but yeah, I wrote about it. And the reality is, yeah, yesterday, and the reality is, like, him being your number four receiver is not the normal fourth receiver. It's your number four receiver in the sense that he's getting reps at X, at Z, at whatever they call their slot position. Like, so they're going to, he's like the lead backup to all the positions. So like you said, if Michael Wilson's struggling in a game, if Greg Dorch is struggling in a game, if Marvin Harrison is struggling in a game, if somebody has to leave a game, Zee Jones just fills in. And he's doing it right now. Obviously, it's, you know, what five days in the camp, but he's doing right now really, really well. And like you said, making things difficult for the coaches and what they're going to do or and pushing to make playing time. And to be completely fair, that's really all we wanted from him. Was it not like that they couldn't just roll the normal team up and not have anything like we wanted this to be a difficult situation. And now you look at it. Obviously, we knew coming in and this is not a shot at anybody that James Connor was the guy at running back. Obviously, Kyler is the guy at quarterback. Trey McBride was tied in one. Obviously, something we'll talk about there. They want to use more than just to tie it in. But there were certain guys that, or certain positions that were like, okay, hopefully it's earned. And in the competition has been, I don't know how you feel, but the competition has been wonderful to see because it's not really, really nice to see. It's not like, oh, good luck. Yeah, right. Exactly. This is 100% high level competition where you're like, oh, any of these guys could be the guy. And that's a huge, huge thing. Yeah, I'm just excited about it, man, because it just seems like this group truly, truly cares. And like you said, like, from going out to LA with Kyler, and I didn't know it was in LA, did you before? I did not. I couldn't, like, oh, it was out. I'm like, I have no idea where that was. I thought maybe it was back in Texas. So I couldn't, I didn't recognize it here. But the fact that they worked out at UCLA and he basically treated his teammates to, he paid for the car service, he paid for flights, he paid for the, they were in, what were they in Beverly Hills, I think it was the place that they rented out hats, nice. And Zade Jones, like, these are NFL athletes that make millions of dollars. And Zade Jones was like, I've never seen anything like it. It sounded like basically they were, they were at a place like Cliff's house. Right, exactly. And, you know, it just, it creates a love for each other. And I really can't overstate how important that is a love and a respect for, for each other in that situation. It just, it's, you know, it's different. It allows this team to feel like they're, they're together and they're, they're chasing the same goal. And that's just not something that it seemed was present previous to this year. And even last year, you know, and again, in first year, there's definitely a feeling out period, right? Like, it's not like everything's just going to go straight to like, Oh, this is wonderful. Like, they wanted to, to feel each other out. And now you're starting to see it. And you're starting to respect what they have and, and who they are. And, and, you know, it just seems like things are trending in the right direction. And these guys truly care about each other and, and are playing for each other. And I don't think that can be overstated. A player that was a surprising addition to the roster last year and apparently still quietly is, it appears that he might be a favorite to make the team at running back. And that's still in Mario di Marcato. They still show him, they're still using him in the first team, third down role. Ganon was effusive in his prey. And it was, he didn't say he was good on third down. He's really good on third down. He came in with a little extra explosiveness and juice. And, and that was, that's a guy you're like, Oh, okay. And last year, there was nothing, there was nothing special about it. Like, there's nothing special about his traits as a running back. He was a backup in college. And yet, and yet, you know, in year two, it feels like he's become one of the coaching staffs guys. Yeah, and it's one of those situations where you look at it. And you just see a guy that endures himself to his teammates, endures himself to his coaches. And I don't think anybody can really explain how important that is, you know, as a coach in such a, in such a, you know, microscopic level to what, what the pros are doing. You look at these things and you say to yourself, like, I want guys that I can trust, you know, and that's the biggest thing. And, you know, we actually, it's funny. We actually talked about this with our, with our freshman team. And it's like, you know, we've had, we've had kids that have been showing up since February, that when they were still in eighth grade, and now, you know, and now school started everybody in ninth grade. And, and those are the guys that you kind of gravitate towards, right? Because they've been there, they've shown you what they have, they've shown you what they can do, and they show you who you are, or who they are. That's what Amari brings, right? Like, this is a guy that is just relentless with his work ethic. Like, he's, he is a guy that, for whatever reason, you, you can't, you just can't get rid of him. In a positive way, too, right? Like, it's not like we're saying like, oh, I can't believe they got to keep, it's like, it's like, right now, it looks like that a very talented running back in Michael Carter doesn't have a spot on the roster. Right. And that, like you said, that's just such a baffling, baffling thing. Like, if we, if we had talked about this, and we did talk about this, like, we didn't, neither of us really saw an avenue for him. And not in, again, not in a negative way, not in a, like, oh, this guy's just really not as good, you know, but like, they're just, he's not as talented. Right. There was nothing distinctive. He was like, he just steady. And what, when he got playing time, you saw his strength was in his patience as a runner. And, and he just, and they had busted a couple of nice runs, but like, the way that he ran with patience, allowing, allowing the yards to come to young running backs, young athletic running backs, one of their biggest problem is is often going too fast at the beginning. Right. Not letting the block, not letting the play develop before they pick their, pick their gap to run through. Well, and you just kind of hit it on the head, just like, there's just so many times that, that runs are there that are missed because these guys don't understand, you know, how, how to play, right? They don't know how to run. They don't know, they don't, they don't understand the nuances of the game. And he runs like a veteran. And we joke about it quite a bit from an athleticism standpoint. And again, this is not a shot at him. I don't want him, I think we're taking a shot. He's not unathletic by any means. No, no, but like, you know, who he kind of reminds me of is like, end of his career, Emmett Smith, right? Like, like that, he knows how to get the yards still. It's just like, he's not going to outrun anybody to the corner, right? Like he's not going to, like you said, he can still make big plays, but his big plays come from patience and letting things open up that other people just don't see that they either get too too quickly or they, or they, you know, change their, their angles or things of that nature. And so that he's just such a, he's just such a good runner. He's just such a patient runner. And he just is, he's a guy that has earned the opportunity to, to continue to work. And if he doesn't, you know, make it, he's earned his opportunity to play somewhere else. Oh, yeah, for sure. Because, you know, a guy that, that you can rely on third and fourth down who can pass block and can play special teams. That's a guy that plays in the league for a decade, although doesn't make it, isn't rich NFL standards, but you're a rich man, if you play 10 years in the NFL, 10 years, probably $12 million, six different states, you know, that type of life. And, and you know, you and I have understand it a little more because we're around it. But I don't think people understand the grind that a guy like, you know, that, that Amari is going to have to go through. It's a stressful life because you don't know if you have a job. Well, it's not only that you don't know if you have a job, but right, you have to stay in shape. You have to pay for your own, you know, workouts, you have to pay for your own nutrition and things of that nature. And, you know, if you want to continue to have the opportunity to do all of that, then by God, you've got to spend the money that you're making, right? And, and that is where he's going to be. But right now, he's an Arizona Cardinal and he looks like he looks like he's got a great chance to stay in Arizona Cardinal, at least for this year. And like we said, I don't think either of us really saw that happening, but I don't think either of us think it's a bad thing if it does happen either. Oh, absolutely not. I mean, he definitely has a role right now and he's one of those guys. It's hard to like, because you can rely on them so much, you go other directions. On the defensive side of the ball, a player that is sticking around and I and I noted this in spring. This is the guy to keep an eye on. Now, he's starting to see you were first team reps, but dad gum of star Thomas, if Starling Thomas still is in that mix. And, you know, Max Melton is starting to get in and I saw it. And I think it was the first time Max Melton, their second round pick was getting some first team reps in 11 on 11. But for the early part of camp through the spring and through some of camp still, it's star Thomas who's playing on the first team defense. And he is a guy that Jonathan Ganon really likes, which is going to make for a hard decision with the cornerback room. That's going to be extremely difficult. If you're like, I have six and my and my 53 man roster projection right now, because I don't see a way for them to not keep six based on what they have. And you've got Sean Murphy, Bunting, Locke, Garrett Williams, Locke, Max Melton, second round pick, Locke Elijah Jones, third round pit, probably a lock. And then you've got star Thomas and Kichro Clark. Never mind the other guys on there, but star Thomas, who played a lot last year, his PFF numbers like yours, his covers number, she gave up a lot. But Ganon loves his approach. He loves what he's done so far. And Kichro Clark as well. And so, you know, Clark hasn't flashed yet. But Ganon has praised how he has, how has he been approaching things, how he's looked. But Thomas is, you know, he's whether he can make the team or not. I think he's quietly making life difficult. He's, and that's a good thing. We like to see that. We like to see life being difficult for the decision makers when they're building a roster. Well, that's just it. Like we talked about with the wide receivers, they're making things difficult. They're making them make difficult decisions. And all that does is make this team better, right? Like you have guys that create or become hard guys to cut down the sense of like, "Oh, I really like him." But in the sense of like, "Oh, if we let him go, is he going to haunt us?" And I think that they're getting to that point, finally, where they might have at certain positions tough cuts to make. And again, that wasn't a conversation last year. That wasn't. No, the corny Mac corner back room was raw and not good. And so now it's like, okay, do they cut, cut trail, key trail Clark? Do they cut? No, Charlie. Thomas, we felt coming in, one of those guys had to go. And it just became a question of who they went with and what they felt, you know, was the most important thing. And by golly, I don't know the answer still. But I do know that we've seen a lot of good things out of Max Milton thus far. Something that gets us excited. And you have to look at that and think to yourself that, man, this could be a really special overall draft class when all of a sudden done. Coming up next on "Rise is Here" at podcast with our Cardinals talk on the web. So we want to talk about what there still is. So we've got the rest of this week, you've got the red and white practice, and then we've got next week before the pre-season over. What do we still want to see in camp and of course, in the pre-season that's coming on next on "Rise is Here" at? Hey, everyone. It is Ryan C. Krester, ready to heat up your summer vacation. Get ready. Things are about to get sizzling at Chumba Casino. Your summer getting a whole lot hotter with a special daily login bonus waiting just for you. So sign up now for reels of fun and reels of prizes right here at Chumba Casino with yours truly. Join me at Chumba Casino dot com and dive into a summer of social casino fun. Sponsored by Chumba Casino. No purchase necessary. VGW Group. Forward, we're prohibited by law. 18 plus terms and conditions apply. We're back on the "Rise is Here" podcast. Mr. Carter's talk on the web talk and Carter's training camp. Now looking ahead to what do we still need to see? Now with pads on, it's, you know, it's tough. And now, depending on what throw-hope misses time, the depth hasn't been tested. And so everyone's been getting their reps. They're just able to coach their able to. They don't have to worry about overworking, underworking anyone. But I think what I would like to see over the next few days or hearing out of camp is to have some of the second and third unit player. Because you know what we haven't had yet, that random young wide receiver or cornerback. None of those back of the roster guys have seemed to just stand out yet. It's been, it's been all of the guys that they're going to be the expected contributors. We did have a small, very minuscule, great play by Xavier Weaver today, so recording Tuesday night, he made a hell of a catch, a save Clayton tune, another training camp interception. But yeah, I mean for the most part, it's been kind of the status quo, which again, I don't think is a bad thing because last year it was, oh, who are going to be the guys? And now this year, like, oh, these are clearly the guys. But but after, you know, after over a decade of covering this team, and every year, there's the guy that there's these guys that just capture the hearts of fans, whether it's an undrafted quarterback, whether it's a back of the room receiver or a past rusher, you know, the Von Terry's door to the P. Robert, like these guys that you're like, and maybe, maybe it's simply because we haven't played any preseason games yet that that has happened. Like, there was the, the, that linebacker out of Auburn, the super unethical one out of Auburn, a couple of years ago that was, they loved him, but I mean, and it's not only Papo the gear where there was the year before him. Yeah, yeah, that's typically what happens, right? And then like you hinted that last week, you know, you've got the past rushers, right? The, the past rushers that make their mark and people just fawn over and they're like, Hey, how did he not make the roster? And you're like, um, because he was meeting third team tackles. Yeah, he was being in the run game. Right, right. Chandler Wooten, by the way, is the name here. That's it Chandler Wooten. There were guys on your staff that were in love with Chandler Wooten. Yeah, and that's the thing is like, a lot of these guys, you know, it's interesting to always follow their careers because a lot of times they just don't do anything after they leave here, right? Or, or get let go and Wooten's played 17 games in his career. He played eight games last year. You know, he, he's played 47 total defensive snaps in his career. So like, again, uh, who's the one Dora, right? Um, Ontario story. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, he was around for a long time, just getting reps and he had a three game run with the Cardinals and, and, you know, no sacks and, and, you know, played 67 career snaps. Like these guys that have great preseason's don't always make it. And it's what the UFOs for man, the UFO. Well, and that's what I call like the UFL. You know what? UFL is it is preseason NFL. It's, it's preseason game three for all their games. You look at like the offensive player of the year, Huchen Butler, you got chances at what three different stops? Yes. Two different positions and three different stops. And, and finally it kind of clicks. But yeah, it's, and that that's where, where it is. If you look at the rosters up and down the UFL, and when it was a USFL and the XFL littered with guys who were late preseason players, they just were not quite, they were players, you know, 70 to 90 on a roster. They, they weren't quite practice squad worthy or yeah, it's just, yeah. I do want to see, and we saw it a little on Tuesday. Um, and maybe, maybe I should have, I should have included Bijo Jalari as kind of the ones that guys are standing out. But like in one on ones against Jonah Williams, Bijo Jalari looked from men this. Um, but I guess it's probably going to be something more that we see in the preseason rather than campus to see some, some pass rushing juice. Um, because honestly, I don't think we want to see our tackles beat by, by our guys. Yeah. And, and so that's the thing is if these guys come out and play, well, you don't feel bad about it, right? Like, but if they are getting stonewalled by other guys, all of a sudden you go, oh, this is not good. This is not what we need to see right now. So, you know, we'll kind of see how, how that plays out. But like you said, I think what, um, BJ's done so far has been impressive. Who's seen him, you know, look like a guy that can compete and be a force at the next level. Uh, like you said, Jonah Williams hasn't been too hot. I'll see if that changes over the next couple of weeks. So, you know, there's a lot to watch and to see him fold over the next couple of weeks. Um, and I'm interested because they're so, you know, cloak and dagger with everything. How much do you, I mean, do we see the starters playing much if at all? I sincerely doubt it. So, I was talking to, to Craig Rialu as we were walking out of the building on, on Sunday, you know, and especially as we go to, as we move towards an 18 game season, the, those competitive practices, their, their joint practices are kind of their starter reps, um, because of controlled environments you get against another team. But here, here are the guys that I expect will play not at all in the preseason. No Kyler, no, um, no Trey McBride, no James Conner, no Will Hernandez, no Paris, um, maybe not Jonah Williams. Um, probably not much of Yalda. Yalda might play a little, um, no Trey McBride, like I said, on the defensive side, I don't think Justin Jones and Belal Nichols will play at all. I don't think we'll see Kaiser, Kaiser White, or either safe at all. I don't, yeah, either safety and maybe Sean Murphy bunting, but because he's new that that's a possibility that, that you'll give him some reps. Um, and I still think like, like BJ and Zaven will both benefit for with some reps in the preseason. But I don't expect, I mean, Matt's prey just going to have to kick because they don't have anyone else. Um, and that could also be something where they come in, right? And they end up bringing a guy and just say, Hey, these are going to be your kicks in to, to show to NFL teams, you know, like, yeah. And so, yeah, but it's interesting because like you said, it's, it's unlikely to see a lot of these guys. And so we'll see how that kind of, kind of unfolds because this is just a, this is just a completely different and new situation because, you know, like we said last year, we knew the quarterbacks were going to have to play. We knew, uh, all these guys were going to have to get reps as much as possible because we didn't really, you know, they were still finding things out. And quite frankly, we knew they weren't going to be very good, right? And so now it's, and now it's a little different. There's some expectations with, with what they did in the year. What they've done this offseason in terms of just like you said, this kind of new different vibe around the team. And so all of that creates this really kind of fun and different chance here that we just haven't seen in quite, quite some time. And another factor into that for preseason playing time is the fact that they're next week as a joint practice where, which is where, um, and how Ganon handled things, handled things last year, that week against Minnesota, that's when they got their starters, their competitive reps against another team. And so, um, you'll probably won't like those key starters won't, but they will get the full load of practice in the, in the joint practice against the Colts twice that week. And, and the other thing to that's why we won't see Kyler because both Desmond Ritter and Clayton Toon need reps in the offense. Yeah, they're, they'll, I mean, we're not being mean when we say this. Um, and I think it's, I can't decide if I'm more disappointed that Toon hasn't developed at all, or that Ritter looks like he doesn't belong on an NFL roster. Um, but yeah, they both desperately, desperately need to get more reps before, uh, before the season because, uh, that's really all you can say, right? That's kind of been, it's been unremarkable. And, and, but hey, I mean, we'll see how that plays out. But, and with that, we'll go ahead and wrap up this edition of the Rise of Sea or podcast of a Star of Cardinals talk on the web. It's been episode 572. Um, the first, and I think it'll probably be the only one this week with Seth and I, we will lean into what next week going into the preseason game. Like said that I'll probably do one show over the next couple of weeks, um, each week, and then probably, and then we'll, I think we'll need to, before roster cuts, we probably will need to get on a show for final or, or, or before the final preseason game do our roster predictions since they'll, we'll have to do that after that. And roster cuts come on a Tuesday. Yeah. So we can then immediately react to the roster cuts as well. Yeah. So we'll, we'll definitely probably get back to, uh, twice a week once, once the season starts, once there's something to talk about, you know, after games and before. And, and in the meantime, Howard, over the next every day there's practice, we'll, we'll have, we'll have some more updates that, uh, that's Seth Cox. I'm just rude. Thanks for listening. As always, we'll be back again soon. 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