The FAN Morning Show

Future Scenarios for Canada Basketball & the Blue Jays

Final hour of the week for The FAN Morning Show has Ben Ennis & Brent Gunning looking towards the future. They start with the Paris 2024 games, previewing the Canadian men’s basketball team’s final group game today. They head to France to check in with a couple of people on scene covering and watching them play. B&B start with Nabil Karim, reporter for NBA TV and the NBA on TNT, who is currently for CBC on their Olympic coverage (2:28). The trio discuss how good Canada has looked; who has really stepped up and impressed as well as what the ultimate ceiling is for this squad. After that, they check in with Raptors’ broadcaster & Canada Basketball board of directors member, Paul Jones, who has also been taking in the Games live (14:30). They go over the scenarios that face Canada in the next round and what best case is for them in trying to bring home a medal. The trio also look at the carry over effect a strong performance in the Olympics can have on a player heading into their next NBA season (looking specifically at the Raptors’ RJ Barrett). To close out the week, B&B turn their attention back to Jays. This time their focus is the return and assets they got at the deadline; they welcome on Sam Dykstra of MLB Pipeline for his thought on which players acquired have the biggest upside and ability to be Major League contributors (29:00). They look at how improved the Blue Jays farm system is post-deadline.

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Duration:: 47m
Broadcast on:: 02 Aug 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

[MUSIC] >> Good morning Joe Sports, F5-9 at the band, Bennett, and Frank Gunning. Carlos Alcaras against Felix, Ojai Aliaseem in singles action in Paris right now. >> Yeah, somebody called Kenny Smith. >> It's over, it's over ladies and gentlemen. He went down a break in the third game and I'm sorry, he being Felix Ojai Aliaseem. I don't make the rules, I just feel like that's gonna be very tough in tennis, so. >> Well, especially against the next one, it's amazing that we transition from the Pete Sampras era directly into the Roger Federer in a breath and all Novak Djokovic era. And now we are transitioning into the Carlos Alcaras era. You just hope that there's somebody that's his foil, that he doesn't just run rough shot through the next ten years of men's tennis. >> I kind of would like almost to have that. I would like there to be like a definitive one and a definitive two. Like I would love it if he, and again, like some tennis person could tell me who this will be. But I would love it if he just had a, like a Djokovic or a Nadal to his Federer, but he won every time. It's just like he's 68, no, and grand slam finals against this guy or something when it's all said and done. Personally, that'd be what I'd like to see. >> I like the Federer and Nadal era was perfect, and Djokovic arriving at that time, but yeah, two guys that are, yeah, had their own separate claims at time to be considered the greatest of all time. And then we had a third. It's just, it is crazy. If you're not into tennis, you merely missed out on an incredible decade where we had historic stakes on the line every single grand slam. >> Would you count yourself as someone who's quote into tennis? >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Okay, cuz I have like, I've had dalliances with it, like Federer, Roddick at Wimbledon was like one of my favorites, and he's like, I went and got the kitchen sink, and then he threw the bathtub at me like, I love that and the Dallen Raff all that night. I've been like in and out. I was hoping Alcaras can pull me in here. Maybe he can. Who knows? >> All right. Team Canada, our men's basketball team in action against Spain after 11 o'clock, Eastern time wrapping up the group stage. They've already qualified for the quarterfinals, but winning and winning big would be big to try and get themselves into the top two and guaranteeing, at worst, a gold medal appearance against the Americans not having to face them before then would be big for Team Canada. And Emile Kareem is a reporter for NBA TV and the NBA on TNT currently working for CBC in Paris right now. How's it going to be? >> What's going on guys? How are you? >> Doing very well. So this team has met expectations, maybe exceeded them with a couple of wins, won over Greece. And then the last one over Australia, I mean, I'm of the belief that they're showing now that they're the second best team in this tournament. Is that what you're seeing? >> I mean, they look real good so far, right? I mean, you look at Germany has been pretty good. They've been really dominant. They got a huge game against France later today. But I would say, yeah, the way it's played out so far, Canada looks like the biggest threat to the United States and again, even like you mentioned, so true. Hopefully they can get in the top two there so they can split and not see the States until the final. But the one thing you're seeing with the Canadians, I talked to Jordan Fernandez about this yesterday, was like they're developing their identity, right? And so prior to the tournament starting, Jordan told me that he wanted to see his team in the top three as far as defense is concerned in this tournament. He thought they were in the top three in that range that they could be successful. He actually went back to like the World Cup where they qualified and he said their offense was great, but it's their defense that kind of let them down in a couple of big moments there. And he thought this time around, they got so much more depth and you saw it against Australia. It really came around against Australia that second half where they made that adjustment going from Dylan Brooks who's been fantastic here to Lou Dorr and Josh Giddy. And Josh Giddy had that big first half, Lou Dorr goes and they give him a different look with new darkness, Dylan Brooks. And from there, the Canadians just absolutely took over and if they want to have this type of success, they want to get to that gold medal game, they're just going to have to carry them. They got some offensive studs clearly, but it's going to be their defense that's going to get them back. No, I think it's smart that you you point that out, right? Because when we think of the ghosts, a Canada basketball pass, it's been, you know, it's been guys quite frankly who, you know, are on that level of Josh Giddy that have ripped this nation to shreds. I think of like, you know, Thomas Satteranski for check here, like way back when Grievous Vasquez, shimmy shaking against us at the at the Pan Am Games. And that game script we've seen a million times where Canada's going well and then Giddy just gets on a flow and takes the game over them being able to kind of put the clamps on him to a certain extent was massive in that game. One of the biggest talking points heading into this tournament was the lack of size and that was going to be kind of Canada's Achilles heel. Do you feel like it's come to bite them yet? And what do you think they've been able to do to kind of counteract that if it, if it hasn't? Yeah, I don't think it's just yet, but listen, they are a smaller up front. And well, again, when I talk to Jordan about that, he doesn't feel that it's such a big talking point for him anyways, because he thinks they got positional size. One of the things he told me is like, look, look at Shea Gil just Alexander, you know, six, six, 200 pounds. These are point cards. When you look at our positional size, we're pretty good and we make up for that. And yeah, rebounding is critical in a tournament like this. They haven't faced a massive team just yet. So we'll see how they do with Spain. And again, we saw them against the United States and that exhibition. Maybe it was just an exhibition game, but you could tell the size was definitely a difference there. But but for team Canada, I mean, the pace that they play at, I think that helps with certain elements of it. Physicality, that's another thing. Jordi Fernandez has talked about a lot because they're so physical and they find bodies. They've been able to get teams to turn over the ball. They've made up for their lack of size up front. But again, that's still to be determined as they go through to the quarter final stage. Because yes, on paper, they are still a little small. I think how much does this matter for Canada? Because Spain hasn't clinched and their third in the group that they obviously it means a lot for them. But Canada is through to the quarter finals. They're currently seated third. The Americans are going to lock up top spot. They're point differentials, 43. They're the United States as well. But it could be either Germany or France in that second spot, right? They play each other in the resolution of their group. Both of those countries are two and O with positive point differentials. How much does this actually like meaningful for this Canadian team? I know back to what you guys were saying. I think it's like very meaningful. You want to avoid the United States. I mean, it's just it's not because they're scared to remember whatever you just want to avoid them until you get to the gold medal game potentially. And so I think that Canada is going for it. They've realized that point difference is going to be really important. So for fans watching today, Canada, you know, is by chance beating Spain, you know, in that fourth quarter and it's by double digits, they're going to continue to go for it. It's not going to be like the NBA. We kind of pull back and go to your second unit. They're going to go to their best unit. I'm assuming and really try to run up the score as much as they can because that Germany, France game is massive now. If France can win win by a small margin, that's probably ideal. Yeah, but Germany's got a plus 33 right now and Canada, I believe is at plus 17. So they got some work to do there. But no, I agree. I think it is massive to try to avoid it. They're not going to probably say that publicly. But I mean, that's the most and you know it. Like you, you want to avoid the United States until the final. And I think they realize that they know the jobs not done and they're not going to take this game lightly at all. No, and they shouldn't. Yeah, Spain is going to come out guns blazing. Like I said, they haven't clinched anything. So we have a long history of being nervous watching this Canadian men's basketball team to be until they beat Spain coming back in that feeble World Cup game to clinch their spot in these Olympics. And then of course, like they beat the Americans in the bronze battle game, even after giving up the heartbreaking three at the end of regulation to send it to overtime. Now we're building up like reps of confidence. Do the players have that now that they've been together? There's been some huge moments over the last couple of years. And the way they played in these first two games of the round, Robin, like how, how is the confidence building around this, this Canadian team? Yeah, I think that's a great point by you because, you know, talking to the players, a lot of been around here. I think last year's experience at the World Cup was huge because the core was pretty much together. That most of the team was there together and they went through all of that. They're super confident bunch like they believe and I was asking actually Robin Barrett about this. Like I was, you know, at the beginning of the tournament, I said, hey, you know, what is the messaging to this group within the group? Is it to metal here or are we going for gold? And he was very, very blunt about it. We're going for gold. We're coming to win here. We're not coming for a second or third place. We're going for gold. So I think the confidence of that group and what they did is the World Cup together chemistry is so big here. And you're seeing that the teams that play together, that have history together, that really helps on the fever stage. It's just a different game here. And so I think whatever carries over and then it goes back to like your best players, right? At some point, your best players just have to be your best player, the stars, the stars and the Canadians are led by Che Gildes Alexander and there's just something calm, cool about him. I mean, we all saw him these past couple of years in the NBA this past year, arguably the MVP, even though Nicole Yoke is very deserving, obviously. And there's just some pressure. You know, just better. He disagrees. Yeah. No, you know what? I thought he was too. But at the end of the day, I think when you get down to those moments and you talk about, you know, being a fan and being nervous late in game, like when SGA's got the ball, I think there's just this sense of confidence. It's calm, there's coolness around him and it's infectious around the team, his leadership. He's quiet, but at the same time, I think all the guys know when it comes to late game situations and SGA's got the ball. We're in a pretty good spot. And I think that just kind of resonates around the entire team. So it's a pretty special, pretty special group. Yeah, it certainly appears to be from the outside and you obviously have as good a seat as anybody, you know, like, no, Bill, you've covered big games. You've been in Rokus, North American arenas. We always hear about, you know, European crowds just being kind of different, but the Olympics are also its own animal into itself. What's been the atmosphere like? I mean, it sounds loud, but I wouldn't go as far as to say, at least from the outside, looking in that it appears to be rabid. What is just kind of the crowd? The atmosphere been like in the arena there. Okay. So it depends on your watch. So when France opened up, it was unreal. It was absolutely unreal. And when we walked in for warmups, the building was full. Almost what I should say, not full, but almost full. And there's a 27,000 capacity in the building right now. They're usually half the stadium, basically, here at low. And they were chanting. They were saying it was very much a soccer vibe. And I've covered the World Cup. I've covered the Euro. So I kind of get that same sort of vibe. It was awesome. So I can't wait to see if I can watch the transfer in the game today. So anytime France is playing, even when they were playing Canada, the women's, I'm very like soccer vibe to it. Very fun. And Canada has been playing, depending on who they're playing, you know, there's not a ton of Canadians down here. They're in a great Canadian contingent world there. And my family was out here themselves. You know, they went to a bunch of games and they were excited and loud, but you know, it's not as loud for the Canadian contingent. However, when the United States played, I went to their first game. I mean, that was something special, too. And I'm not saying they're all US fans that were there. I'm not saying they're all Americans there, but this is just shows you how global the game is. And I'm like walking around little when the United States are playing, you know, they're playing because you see all sorts of jerseys and not USA jerseys. We're talking like the Celtics, the Lakers or whatever, whatever, whatever, what happened to you, right? Like, and people were just so it's the American ticket to get a ticket to see USA, even against South Sudan or their next. It's almost impossible. It's the hardest ticket to get. And that atmosphere, anytime anyone did anything, Kevin Durant was special in that first game, right, where he came off the bench and to see the fans reactions and just how how mesmerized they were. It wasn't that same by you got in the French game where everyone is singing and dancing and doing the whole thing. It was just more everyone was just wowed by all the talent they were saying. It's been pretty, it's been pretty cool. It's been very different, depending on who was playing. Can't wait to see them be wowed when Canada just smokes them in the gold medal game and join B does his head in his hands. He's got he's got an interesting time down here. You have a very interesting time. Mark us all appears out of nowhere to give him a hug and tell him it's going to be okay. Great. Oh, that would be great. Naville, thanks for this, buddy. Appreciate it. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Thank you. Neil Korean reporter for NBA TV, NBA and CNC working for CBC in Lille in France for the basketball tournament. All right. Let's talk to your friend of mine, Paul Jones, Jonesy, the Raptors broadcast member, the board of directors for Canada basketball. Oh, we're going to call him back. He's just I was just going to say also that, you know, I don't know what Marcus all is doing. He doesn't seem like a very worldly man. Like it seems like taking in the Olympics would be very something like on the on brand for him. If he's not available, I think Kelly Olenick would do great. Yeah, just like to go over to what seems like it's okay, buddy. It's fine. Everyone Marcus, whatever, like I don't have the word, whatever Gasol said to you just all that stuff. I think it would be a little tough for Joel and me. It's one thing for champion, you know, it's true MVP candidate Mark Gasol to give you a hug. It's another freak. Don't you dare Dennany Kelly. I'll give you a hug. Hold on the line. How dare you? Jonesy is there Raptors broadcast. Remember the board of directors for Canada basketball in France, taken in the festivities. How's it going, Jonesy? I'm good, Ben. We were just in the spirit of you and I getting together. We're actually going to try and see some of the golf, but we're going to have to settle for some TV right now in terms of the golf. Like the basketball is too hot right now, Ben. I can't, I can't, can't shirt my duties as a board member to go out and justify watching golf, although there might be a point where I might see some of it. So if the two of us aren't going to hold you accountable for that, I think you're totally free and clear. Like if you even Ben and I can't get worked up saying, no, Jonesy, go watch golf. No, I think you're making very much the right call, Jonesy. But, but, but you guys would, you guys as golfers would both give me a note. So that's, you know, that's kind of like, it's like the kid who's sick all day and gets up at four o'clock and says, I'm fine. Can I go out and play? Yeah. Wait, I'll practice. Yeah. There you go. There you go. Oh, yeah. They're going, they're going low at the leg of the nationale, Xander Shoffley, 11 under through. He's not even completed a second round. John Rom, though, two back as well as Hadeki, Matt. Oh, it's because there's, it's because there's no money on the line. It's only about pride and honor. That's why John ROM is good again. Yeah. Jonesy, you can't wait for this game coming up in three hours, buddy. Yeah, it's, it's Canada's already clinched to the quarterfinals. That's all well and good. I mean, in your mind, like how much is on the line here? How excited are you for this game coming up in three hours? Well, it's a big game, guys, because I just talked to our CEO, Michael Bartlett. He's actually in Paris right now. He was in the world the last couple of days, but he's in Paris now watching the women in the three on three who, by the way, are doing very well also. And we went over a bunch of tiebreaker scenarios and Canada two and oh, the best way to control your destiny is to win. That way, you're three and oh, and you win the group kind of watching God. I'm sitting here in the hotel before we go to the arena and I'm watching Greece right now up by 14 on Australia, which is good. Because the last thing we need is Australia beating Greece and Spain beating Canada and a three way tie for first in the wrong scenario. We could come third in the group and it's all about the quarterfinals and the rankings because it's not conventional the way we do it in North America. If you're one or two, you go into a pot and it's like a lottery. So you could be one or two in the top pot and it's a ping pong ball draw. So even though you have the same record as somebody else, you could be two and they could be one, or you could be one and they could be two. And it's not conventional like we have in North America where it's one eight, two, seven, three, six, four, five in the quarterfinals. Because of the pod system, one could play seven. Two could play eight, especially if it's a team that's in your group because you can't play them in the quarters. So it's really important that we win this, you know, from a Canadian perspective. Second half against Australia was really good. Hopefully that continues on in this game against Spain. But yeah, it's a big game. And on the other side, we need our women to beat Nigeria by a certain number of points and it's crazy because then there'll be a three way tie at one and two in the group for second if France beats Australia and we could get through there the same way. So your destiny is kind of up in the air, unless you win games and control it yourself. Yeah, you got to, you got to take care of your own business. And yeah, I was watching, I was, I was off work sick, but still working because I was watching the Canadian women yesterday morning. But yeah, Bridget Carlton started off hot and just couldn't keep it going and definitely a frustrating one. And they will need a big game against Nigeria. Obviously on the men's side of things, it's all about avoiding the States as long as you possibly can. Of the other teams, though, who do you think? And I know the answer is, look, we're Canada. We're the second best nation now. We shouldn't be worried about anybody. But let's also be realistic. Who would be the kind of nightmare draw outside of the States if you if you had to face them before a final? I mean, my mind immediately goes to France just because of, I mean, when Ben Yama and the size, I guess that's basically the same thing. But who to you would be kind of the most dangerous for matchup for Canada outside of the States? Well, there's a few of them there. France, as you mentioned, never discount, you know, your kitchen and the way the Serbs play and the way they moved the ball. And just quickly, Jonesy, Jonesy, quickly on the Serbia thing, it does feel like they're the kind of forgotten man and all this, at least from kind of like a North American perspective, because they weren't in the World Cup group. She didn't see them in there. Like it, France were very aware of because when be so front and center. But I think I think you're right to point out Serbia because they almost do seem like the forgotten team in this tournament. Yeah, they won silver in the World Cup without yoga. Yeah, no, it's true. And and and you know, they they haven't played that well. The US beat them up in the in the pre Olympic game. They beat them pretty handily by 26 in the first round of group play. But I just kind of get the feeling they're going to get better and better as as the tournament goes along, especially with Yokech there. And they do have NBA players. So that would be one team. You talk about France fellas. That would be another team. And the sudden rise of South Sudan, like those guys play really hard, like Royal Ivy and Lou Dang, you know, have them playing they they play all out like they were down 19 to the US at half. And I think, you know, I'm sitting watching the game thinking, okay, it's going to be a 30 point game because the US will probably win the second half by 10 or 11. They didn't and and though you watch those kids from South Sudan, man, do they get after it? They play really hard. They're very athletic. Royal Ivy is very demanding. He's got high standards and high expectations. So they're a group that I don't think you want to run into either, especially gaining some confidence from their games against the US. So there are three teams right there. Canada look good in the first two games and believe it or not, I still think you don't want to see Spain. I just this game this afternoon has me, you know, has me has my interest peaked. I'll be watching closely because Spain looked very ordinary in the first game and they were tied with Greece with, you know, four or five minutes to go at 71 and they won going away. And it was interesting. We happened to my seat happened to be beside Sergio Scariolo's wife and his daughter. And they didn't know who they didn't know who I was. I kind of recognized his wife a little bit, but it had been it's been four or five years. And sure enough, when Canada started the game against Australia, I looked behind me and there was Sergio sitting in his seat, so we had a good chat. But don't discount Spain. They're a proud basketball nation. They still have a lot of veterans and guys like Sergio Yule and Rudy Fernandez, you know, Santi Aldama of Memphis is playing really well for them. So, you know, don't discount those guys. They're they're still a proud basketball nation. So there are three teams. I'd I'd have my head on a swivel if I had to play them. Yeah, Canada is better. Yeah, I should be beating all of them. Oh, yeah. But then you guys are right. Like, you know, Canada's in the group group of death, you know, Oh, no, Greece and Spain. Hold on a second. Canada's two and on the group. Nobody else is. Yeah, I like that. Well, you know what those countries are saying, Joe and see the like, we're in the group of death. Canada's in here. Yeah, exactly. And that wasn't the attitude years before it was. We were the ones going, Oh, my God, we have, you know, Spain. We have Greece. And now it's the opposite. You guys have both remarked people are looking like Oh, crap. We're in a group with Canada. Mm hmm. So. And yeah, they got she'll just Alexander, but they also got Canada's leading score, which is RJ Barrett, who loves Fibo obviously, but he's hitting all his free throws. And we saw some of this in his early transition to the Raptors last year that become a much more efficient player. Like how is there are you a believer in a carryover for some of the players that are playing in this tournament to an NBA regular season? Yeah, yeah, because I think you're going to see NBA players that have come out of the Olympics. It's a short break. You know, six to eight weeks before they ramp up for the NBA season again, the Raptors have announced their training camp will be in Montreal. And those guys get off to a really good start. I mean, you think of how well Schroeder played last year coming off the World Cup MVP early in the season, like it's kind of a continuation. And then you have to watch out for the wall that hits when guys just get tired. You need to manage them properly to kind of keep that long, long, you know, keep the season going. So, yeah, there is a carryover. And I look at RJ, he's playing so well right now, taking the ball to the goal. Good decisions for the most part offensively. You know, I've had a couple of sloppy turnovers, but I think turnovers and trying to maybe do too much rather than keep it simple. But, you know, it's the defense. I look at the way Lou Dort got into Josh Gideon the last game. It's like, hey, man, we're teammates. I see this in practice every day. I know you. And he lost me that he made it really difficult form exactly. And, and, and I think that the minutes from Ken Burch were key against Landale, who was really kind of over trying to overpower people on the offensive glass, because we don't have a lot of size. And I think Dwight Powell and Ken Burch are doing a really good job on the inside. So, you know, Jamal Murray is starting to come around. You know, he was held out of practice for a while because I don't think he was 100%, but he's starting to get it together. And listen, I'll say it. Canada is dangerous. Canada is dangerous. And people are looking at Canada with a, an eye to, you know what, we don't want to play them either. Jonesy, so yeah, Raptors training camp is in Montreal. You just missed an opportunity to also hit up the president's cup, which is happening just before. What do you, what do you mean, just missed? It actually works out perfectly. You can do all the president's cupping. And then media day is literally the day after the Sunday of the president's cup. But the media day's back in Toronto. Have you thought about this? I'll have to have them stream it. I'm working on the media department to stream media day. So I could do my Eric and I could do our sit downs from Montreal over Zoom. And I could, I could race out to Royal Montreal after. What do you think? I think it's, I think it's a fine idea. I think I have no problem with that. I think Mike we're in his men. Maybe they're quite frankly, Jonesy, like for the country, you need to make it happen. And maybe you guys could write me a note with like Tony and, and, and, you know, and Dan and, and some of the, the powers that be at the fan to get this, get this going. No, and as everyone knows, they listen to exactly what I say. So yeah, might want to get somebody with a little more clout in your corner, but I'm happy to help, Jonesy, whatever I can do. Can't wait for that, buddy. Enjoy the game today. Thanks. Okay, guys. See ya. There's Paul Jones. Raptor is broadcast. Remember the board of directors for Canada basketball, Canada, Spain. The wake Kevin Barker was screaming earlier. I feel like I just a rant about like Paul Jones and the necessity of him and Montreal for the good of our, well, I guess like the international team, but our nation's golfing hopes. I don't know. I'd like, I'd be happy for Jonesy if he could be there. Yeah. Um, he also just had me freaked out. Like I, and listen, if Canada keeps playing the way they're, they've been playing the first two games, it's not, does not matter. And they, I have factually already clinched their spot in the quarterfinals. But yeah, I guess I'd like totally forgot about the possibility of them finishing third in this group. Yeah. But yeah, they lose to Spain, ends up opening a huge can of worms. So I would just, if I was Canada's smoked Spain into oblivion. God, I would love if they just put a whooping on Spain today. That'd be nice to see. Well, RJ Barrett leading the way. Yeah. Maybe give Shay like, like not a day off, but like, you know, let RJ kind of be the star of the show here, but your mom, Murray, cooking. Yeah, we can get greedy now about these things. We don't have to just say, Oh man, that's a good team. Please beat him. No, beat him emphatically. No, it's not about meaningful September baseball for this basketball team winning a gold medal. What would be the meaningful early August basketball, please. There is meaningless baseball to be played for the Toronto Blue Jays. But I dare you for the team as a whole, but not individually. No, very meaningful guys playing for spots in the major leagues of baseball. They're world series quite frankly. Yeah. We'll talk to Sam Dykstra of MLB pipeline about some of the young players and who has the highest upside for this Blue Jays team the last couple of months as the fan morning show continues, Ben and his Brent Gunning Sportsnet 590 the van. Everything you need to know about the Blue Jays Blair and Barker, be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Fan morning, Joe Sportsnet 590 the fan, Ben and his Brent Gunning Blue Jays, Yankees from the Bronx tonight. Joey Loperfito is on the 26th man roster. Perhaps more young projectable players to join him. Jake Bloss was getting onboarded in Florida and he has been optioned to Buffalo, but you'd expect to see him in the rotation. In due course, Jonathan Class A was already in the major leagues for Seattle. Hey, maybe Will Wagner will be a major leaguer. Let's talk to Sam Dykstra of MLB pipeline. How's it going Sam? Good. How are you guys doing very well? So of all the guys the Blue Jays acquired to the deadline in the days prior to the deadline. Who has the highest upside? Like who's the guy that could actually be more than just an average major league player? Yeah, I think Bloss is that guy. I mean, you look at where he was a year ago, he was taken out of the draft out of Georgetown and absolutely took off for the Astros. I mean, you look at the 2023 draft, only three pitchers have made the major league so far. One is Paul Skeens, who everybody knows. The second is Hurston Waldrip and the third is Jake Bloss. The part of that was the Astros just having major rotation needs because of injuries, but also because of his own development. His fastball, curveball, he's got a couple of sliders that are really good. He's got pitches that work in the major leagues right now. It hasn't been a great major league start to his career, but like he could be a number four, number three starter for the Jays. It was a heck of a thing for the Astros to give up for Kakuchi. So when you're when you're kind of looking at it and you know, I know we're kind of getting out of the evaluating period towards, okay, what are these guys going to be moving moving forward? But when you're kind of evaluating it, how do you look at the ceiling versus floor? I mean, like you said, this is a guy who already has shown some ability and most of it was, you know, positional need by his former team, but it's showing some ability to get to the big leagues when you're kind of evaluating the return. How do you look at the idea of a high floor guy versus a high ceiling guy? And how different is that when you're talking about something like a starting pitcher versus a position player? Yeah, I mean, part of my evaluation of trade is what was the other team identifying and what were they looking for? I mean, it's pretty clear for the Jays. A lot of the guys they brought back the guys you mentioned, Bloss Wagner, Class A, these are guys who can help in 2025. So it's clear that that's what they were going for. They're not necessarily high ceiling types. Even Jake Bloss, as much as I like him, he doesn't have maybe a true plus pitch that's going to get him into an ace or a number two role. But there's some chlor there. I think it's a balance of, you know, sometimes you go with the high upside guys who's three, four years away and you have to develop them now. I don't really see the Jays got anybody quite like that with a significantly high ceiling who's far away. It seemed like they were willing to go for safer types who are going to keep the train moving for 2025. If you're going to keep glad you and you're around, you're going to keep Boba shut around. You should be trying to be competitive next year. And they clearly were going for that with these seals. So explain the Bloss thing to me because I've seen his fastball graded out super high and I'm like, Oh, what's the average velocity on that thing? It's not like 99 or anything like what makes him as effective as he's been in the minor leagues and what are the adjustments he's going to have to make at the major leagues. Again, it's small sample, but it's 11 and 2/3 innings in three starts at the major league level. He's given up 16 hits and an ERI of almost seven. Yeah, I mean, he can touch 96, 97. It's usually around 92, 94. But one thing when you watch him, it's both a high release angle, but a low release point, he gets really far down. And I think that just creates kind of a funky angle. It won't look. It's not like a side armor or submarine or something like that. But it's just a unique angle on the pitch and hitters find that tough to square up. So even if it's playing, it just kind of average velocity, even though, like I said, he can get up to 96, 97 hitters just have a tough time seeing it. Of the positional arm positional arms, that's not a thing. Of the positional players that the J is brought in, is there one you're kind of most excited about? And if so whom? Yeah, I mean, we have class a ranked higher, but I'm really interested to see what Charles McAdoo is going to be. They really got him at a good time. He's really been on the upswing. He was a 13th round pick last year out of San Jose State, but he's been at 315 this year as a 932 OPS. He's played well at both high A and double A. Clearly, there's some power in there. He's got 14 homers on the year 17 steals. So even though he's a blow average runner, he will push the envelope on the base pad. I'm really fascinated to see what they do with him. I mean, you look at some of these upper level bats that the J's have right now out of some bargers going to graduate soon. Leo Jimenez. They as many questions as I have about the arms and how healthy they are. I mean, they could use some more bats and getting somebody with impact like McAdoo. And at this time, when he is, like I said, with the arrow pointing up and now you get to develop him a little bit more and sharpen him into what you want to make him. I think that's an interesting swap. Sam, it's hard not to look at the baseball reference page for all these guys and look at the numbers they're putting up on the minor leagues and be like, Oh my God, look at that. If they just did that at the major league level, that'd be unreal. Except, well, nobody does that. But also, like the minor league hitting environment, at least in triple A in the international league with robot umpires was, I haven't checked it this year. But last year, I know like the average OPS, I think was like 800 or something. Like, what do we do with just the raw numbers? Like, we're not like you. We're pouring over tape or have the knowledge to pour over tape and look at the actual technical skills being offered up by these prospects. But what am I supposed to do with some of these minor league numbers, considering how different the offensive environment is in the minor leagues right now? I mean, yeah, that's part of the service we're trying to provide at MLB pipeline and every prospect ranking site, right? We're trying to give you that context. You look at Will Wagner, who's that three 37 last year across three levels, three 11 this year. And you think like, Okay, well, this guy's going to clearly be a hitter and he might be, but he's also 26 years old. You mentioned the jump from AAA to the majors has never been higher, in part because of the ABS system and how defined the zone has been and how good that's been for hitters and the fact that pitchers, honestly, once you get like a Paul schemes to the major leagues, there's nowhere else for him to go to fair a level. So the pitching quality at the major leagues that these guys aren't seeing at AAA. So we're always just trying to provide that context. I think, like you said, knowing that triple A is a little bit more hitter friendly, especially if these guys are coming from the Pacific Coast League or the Texas League, these really hitter friendly environments, but that's something always to keep in mind. But, you know, the other thing that baseball reference patients isn't going to tell you for the minor leagues is what these guys are defensively. Yeah. So look at a Will Wagner. Yeah. He's probably a first baseman in the end, but you might see that he's played some second base and third base and thinking he's versatile. It's it's a little bit more nuanced than that. Also, it doesn't tell me if he's Billy Wagner, Jr. It just says Will Wagner. I mean, he could go by Bill, but he's not Billy Wagner, Jr. He's Will Wagner, right? Does anyone call him Billy? I'm not to my knowledge. No, he's will for that reason, I think. Okay. But yeah, his defense has been a question. His blue chase have like an opening defensively at third base. If he's able to play it capably, everything I've read about him is that that's probably not the case. Like, is there any scenario in which he's in a capable defender at third base? I mean, his hands could work there. I just question the arm strength going across the diamond. He's not quick enough for second base either. So it's not like you could play there. It really feels like more of a first base profile, but he could play third in or in a pinch if you really needed one on a given day. So he has the MLB bloodlines, which I mean, the blue just like who doesn't love them. Who doesn't like that though? I mean, has that become more in vogue? Like, is that actually a differentiating factor? Do you think for some of these major league teams, if your dad was a major leaguer, probably gonna opt for that prospect over somebody else? I don't know if that's really a deciding factor. It might be a deciding factor in getting these guys to be prospects in the first place. You look at Jackson Holiday, he grew up in a major league clubhouse. Like, he just had access to things since he was such a young age. And that's really helped him develop. And that's an advantage he had over other players. I think that's what gets their foot in the door. If you're looking at prospect A and prospect B and prospect B as better tools, but prospect A is so and so son. I'm still going tools all day. Wagner has those tools. And I'm sure that comes from being Billy Wagner son and being around the game for so long. But I don't know if they're necessarily just taking the guy because of his last name. Yeah, it's always funny. Like, it's a it's a little bit of a it's a little bit of a double edged sword. I find and, you know, not totally, but you know, you always hear these stories and you think of like, I'll think of like football or like football recruiting for colleges. It's like, well, I can go take the kid from Texas who's like been on a weight program since he was 11 years old or this kid who is like a more normal kid. And maybe there's a more kind of natural growth. It does seem like it's only seen as a positive as opposed to maybe and I'm not saying this like obviously Jackson Holiday got to be the number one prospect for a reason. But it's like, is he already more kind of materialized to what he'll be at maybe a younger age when you have kind of seen it all. And all of this is, yes, you're there's a comfortability with it. But it's also, you'd have to imagine that, you know, like, and I don't say this, but gradually, I think I think Matt and Jackson are pretty happy about how it worked out. But it's like, I imagine Matt, Matt Holiday was kind of squeezing all the juice he could out of him from a pretty young age. I don't think there's new things he's he's kind of picking up along the way. It's such a funny kind of, kind of double edged sword with with me there. You know, we talk about a guy like Wagner who, not that there's a lack of position, but it seems to be pretty clear where one is. How often do we kind of change our opinion on guys defensively as they age? I mean, like you said, if it's an arm strength thing, maybe that's hard to to kind of see grow as you as you mature as a player. But if it's just a positional understanding, or if it is a hands thing, it does seem like that's something that could be kind of worked on more. We think of offenses, this unlimited potential of, hey, if it's young, who knows what can happen. Whereas they do find sometimes with defense, we have these guys kind of stuck in place. How much evolution can happen with a player defensively in this kind of important window as well? Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great point. I think I look at like Francisco Alvarez of the Mets for years, the knock on him was that he could only hit. He could only hit. And then he made the major leagues and everybody's like, oh, he's a better framer than we thought. Like, well, yeah, he's been working hard on this for years. I mean, this is not something he just put off to the side so he could hit Dingers and BP. You know, the thing about evaluating defense in the minors, especially early in careers, everybody wants to play up the middle. So you're going to have your short stops who are going to be short stops for a very long time. You're going to have your center fielders who are center people who are for a very long time. And so the rubber hits the road, right? And you can only have one center fielder and one short stop in the major leagues. And around double A, you'll typically see guys starting to move around. And then they're learning new positions, which, you know, it's not easy, no matter what you're doing, even if you're moving down the defensive spectrum. Yeah, it's still possible for there to be growth. I think any player would tell you that they work really hard on their defense. It's not as often and as quantifiable necessarily as hitting, but yeah, is there the potential that Will Wagner could improve his footwork enough to be a decent second baseman? Yes, I think that's easier to improve than arm strength, which, you know, takes years and years and years to really get to a certain point. Yeah, Spencer Horowitz, those spent 10 games playing second base in Buffalo and then all of a sudden, oh, yeah, the offensive profile plays a lot better at second base than then then first base. He's like the everyday second baseman of the future for this Blue Jays team. It is weird. So Blue Jays had not such a great farm system before this influx of talent, but they did have a couple of guys at the tippy top that were interesting prospects who for different reasons are off the radar right now, right? Relvis Martinez, bang for an 80 game suspension and Ricky Tiedemann's having TJ. So he's out for all the next season. What does that do to their prospects standing? I mean, you guys do come back from Tommy John. Obviously it won't be in 2025, but the 80 game suspension for a relevance. That was a guy with light tower power and he was showing a better eye at triple A. Like, is he back on the radar for the Blue Jays next season? Yeah, I think so. You know, in terms of pop 100 status and where they stand in the industry, I think or Elvis, even with the suspension is basically holding serve in that regard. You look at Noel V. Martay of the Reds and through something similar earlier in the year, and everybody's like, well, he's still the same player. I don't think he got strong just because of DEDs. I'm willing to take him as word in terms of why he took them and how he got pop for them. But like, Martinez has always been this type of player. Flood first, he's gotten more consistent at the triple A level. Heatemann, yeah, it's really tough to swallow the fact that he's not going to be pitching again until potentially 2026. I mean, you look at what his numbers have been and they've always been pretty strong, but he still hasn't thrown more than 80 innings in the season. And we're going on year three. It's going to be year four next year and he's still going to not have done that. So his stock is going to take a tumble. You know, you look at trading savage, they added in the draft. He might be their best pitching prospect now just because he's healthy and actually really performed in the spring in a way that we haven't seen Heatemann do. I still really liked Heatemann feeling, but his floor is getting lower and lower with each pass in injury. Yeah, yeah. I mean, his floor is not being a pitcher anymore because he's not going to do that for a for a long period of time. So the Blue Jays last one, Sam. Blue Jays got 13 prospects at the deadline. And a couple of them have already seen Major League. They've already seen the Major Leagues and to various various degrees of success, nobody's asserted themselves already as an average Major Leaguer. But like if we put that as the bar, like being an average Major Leaguer, like, what's a good outcome of the 13 prospects? What's a good outcome? The number of average Major Leaguers that come out of that. If we're just talking average Major Leaguers, I think if you get to, yeah, it would be good. If like, do a block, boss, say, or macadoo, the others are role players. I think at best, Adam, some Paul, you know, who I like a decent amount could be a utility in field or will Wagner. We talked about could be that off the bench. Getting two regulars for all these pieces would be a pretty solid return because they're going to be regulars that you control for a long time. I mean, getting even lost for a while. And we're not even talking about Joey La Perfito. Like, La Perfito is not a prospect for me, so he's a little bit off my radar at this point. But he has that potential too, right? I would put him a bug closet in terms of potential. So if they can get two regulars out of this and kind of, like we were saying earlier, keep the train moving for 2025, I think that would be a fine outcome. I'm bad at myself on the back because I said exactly to Sam and you're smart and I'm done. I'm dumb, so good for me. Sam, I didn't say that second part. No, I was going to jump in to be like, little concerning for you. God, as to be honest, a little concerning. Sam, this is great. Thanks for this. Yeah, thanks so much, guys. Sam Dijkstra of MLB pipeline. That's crazy, right? Like people are like, well, 13 prospects and look at all the minor leagues. That's more than a whole team. And that's not two MVP candidates, just like two warm bodies. Two people who you're like, oh, there's a major league player. It's like guy. Yeah, one of them in Jake Bloss was the top 100 prospect going into the season and has been in the major leagues for three starts, having gone so well as last starting to give up. As you said, I mean, today, I mean, the Astros will tell you no, I would certainly hope that'd be there. But yeah, could you imagine after all they're like, and got to be honest, I think Bloss could have given us just as much. Would it seem like they wouldn't have made that trade then? Yeah, for sure. But it is funny, right? Like that it's, the world is so different of the minor leagues. And part of it is like the rules are different. Man, go back to the days where the Blue Jays minor league team, the AAA team was in Las Vegas, the 51s. Great hat. Yeah. And they played in the Pacific Coast League. And it's like, you think this offensive environment in Triple A is outlandish. Like look at some of the numbers putting up in like Colorado Springs is one of the teams that plays in the Pacific Coast League. Even at Cashman Field in Vegas, the numbers were outrageous. But yeah, you look at all these guys, guess what? You're not being traded ever. If you're not performing at the minor leagues, you're like out of baseball. So unless you're a top pick, then you'll be given a longer runway. Yeah, it's a Spencer Torkelson. Yeah. But all the yeah. And I think his minor league is amazing. Right? Yes. Yeah, who's not amazing in the minor leagues? You really have no chance if you can't hit minor league pitching, but the leap from the minor leagues to the major leagues with both like human umpires. Yeah. But also the quality of pitching is like elite humans. Yeah. Yeah, it's outrageous. It's tough. It's the most it is. It is the sport that it's the hardest to bank on. Like the idea of like football prospects isn't really a thing. Basketball, much closer to football than any of these other sports. Like, yeah, you see a little bit more of it with like the Glee being developmental now, but baseball is the sport where these guys are most in your life for the longest. And it's also the hardest to get a read on it, but you also can't help but get yourself excited. It is it is so tough to see because to your point, every guy who comes through performed like this isn't the again, like to not for me to make everything about hockey, but it's like there is such a thing as a guy who's like a competent third liner in the American League. And his team needs that and he gets a call. There's no world where you're like the super defense guy. No, you got to hit a triple A. He got to hit. And then the other stuff can kind of shine through. And then if you're not a top pick, you have to hit for years like Spencer Horowitz and Davis Schneider who's done just a whole lifetime, just a whole professional life. Yeah. And then you arrive. It's like, okay, fine. We'll give you all luck because we stink and we have a need, but it'll take us like a long time to give you the okay to be an everyday major leaguer. And I don't think either one of those guys, even with the performances they put forth. And I know David Schneider slumping right now is like guaranteed. No, even a roster spot in 2025. No, far, far from it. Honestly, baseball, weird sport. Yeah, hard at least. It's very difficult. Not as hard as golf, but no, God, could you imagine like, yeah, not enough time for that side street. I wanted to walk down. But yeah, golf, very hard. Yeah, I'm going to go play some. Okay, I'm going to go watch some. Shout out to CBC Gem. All right. We'll be back Tuesday with another edition of the fan morning show, Ben and his prank gunning sports at five on his fan. Good morning.