This week we're talking about SDCC 2024 announcements, Marvel 1602, Birdking Volume 2, The Boy And The Heron, and Cop. Show music by HeartBeatHero and OGRE. Support the show!
Get up to 2 months free podcasting service with our Libsyn code OZONE
Ozone Nightmare
Irony Man & The Internet Therapy
It's Friday, August 2nd, 2024. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Alright, let's do some, we'll get to our promotional segment in a minute, but there's some programming notes. Actually, more than one comment. So, there is a new double feature episode that we'll be posting on, let's see, if this is, this show is for the second set would be on the 5th. I should look for the calendar, hold on, let me pull the calendar up, I believe it will be, it's the Monday following the show, so I believe that's the 5th, if I've got it right. That will be a five hour, five and a half hour or so show on Robocop 2 and Predator 2. Now, I don't know if it's going to be entirely blocked on YouTube. Well, I shouldn't say that. What I will say is, I think I told you the story, but we didn't talk about it on the show. Yes, we did. Did we talk about the last week of the talk about how you're doing a video podcast now? Yeah, but did I talk about the dead heat thing? Yeah, oh yeah, I didn't remember fun with them, it was the scene of them riding around in the car. Alright, I didn't remember if that was during our playing video games or if it was on the show. So, it's a similar situation here where I don't know if the appeal will have cleared, I'm not going to alter this because I'm just not. So, whatever, it's fine. Question, question, question, question. How much do you have to change a scene for it to be considered not copyright? Well, that's... If you put smiley faces over their heads for just that scene. That would probably do it, because I've seen... Now, okay, there's a couple of components to this. One is, I don't know if there's something... YouTube is constantly evolving your systems. So, things that worked for some people say a year ago may not work now. So, what happened with dead heat, as an example, is when it found that one minute or so segment of footage, it's in, here are your options. Trim that segment out, which is fucking ridiculous, because we were talking during it. So, it would have just been a big whole of speech. I mean, it's just nonsense. And so, the only thing that I... So, what I did was, for that one, I just took that out entirely. And the stupid part is there was no audio. So, it's not even like the scene had the audio, it was literally just the visuals. So, I don't know why they would have checked to that and not all the other footage I used. That one is baffling to me. So, I just excised that clip out, which is what YouTube would have done. But if YouTube had done it, the audio just would have stopped and then come back in. Whereas, I just went into Premiere and I just stripped that set, because it's all chopped up. So, I just deleted that one little bit out, because it was just... It was just because we've been talking for a while without any activity on the screen. So, I just threw it in there, because we happened to be talking about their casting and how they were really good together. So, my God, well, let me show the first scene. Whatever. That's what they got pissed about. Whatever. Yeah? Well, I know I said whatever's... I don't know. So, I don't know what the mitigation factors will be with this. But I'm going to appeal this one all the way, because I don't care. I put so much goddamn work into this video that if they have to strike it, they strike it. But if all you have to do is put smiley faces over their faces in that scene for a moment, is that a lot of work? Well, it's not. Well, I'm asking you because I don't know. Well, it depends. See, this is where I'm going into the... I don't... It's hard to say that, because I did see there was a video that I saw that somebody was doing about a rip-off video. And one of the things they said was all they did was kind of alter the color temperature on it and the tint. Yeah, yeah. And I put a vignette around it, and that was enough. So, I might be... I could probably black and white the footage, and that might be enough, because then it won't match, but I don't know. It's hard to say, because part of the... what made dead heat pretty easy, in that instance, was all I had to do was take out a block of video with no audio. We weren't playing the clip with audio where people could hear it. Whereas when Doug and I do it, we do play the audio, because I think we're trying to sell these movies for people to watch. That's what's the most asinine thing of it. Our channel is not monetized, which is my number one thing is, we are not monetizing it, right? We're not. Now, what I wonder is that the real reason they block it is because YouTube can't make any money from it, because the copyright, you know, I don't know, I don't know. But that's the most calling part is, we're not selling thousands of dollars worth of video and merchandising based on other creators' work. I would not do that. We're advocating for people to watch these movies. We're trying to drive more revenue towards these companies. And it's so stupid. And most of what we say is complimentary. We do point out the problems, because you can't not say that problem. Dead Heat is not a good movie, but it is a great movie. Oh, it's no. I'm talking about RoboCop 2 and Predator 2. We're both multiple times, Doug, and I say, you should watch these movies because they both have these reputations as being not good. And it's not that they're not good. It's just that they're not as good as their predecessors. That's not the same thing. And they're different. They're both different because they tried to do something slightly different. And that was my big emphasis in the Predator 2 part. I get to a point where I'm saying, you know what? When sequels at least try to do something different, you have to at least appreciate that because we have become tired of sequels, prequels, retreads, reboots, because they're so lazy. These two movies were not lazy. RoboCop 2 was tremendously misguided and made a number of bad decisions, but it wasn't just recycled because people say, oh, it's just the first movie over again. No, it is not. It is not this first movie over again. You could not have two more different villains in Bonicor and Caine. Bonicor was a coke-fueled maniac and Caine felt like he was going to fall asleep in the middle of murdering someone. These are opposite villains. They played opposite. They were opposite. Seriously, you could not, I mean, are some of the beats the same? Sure. Some stuff, of course it is. You have to keep the world alive. You have to let people know what's going on. But they're not the same movie. It's ridiculous to even suggest that. It's nonsense. And Predator 2 is an even bigger leap to say, okay, we're not going to do anything that we did the first time. They changed so much of it. Yeah, the setting, all the gang stuff, the inner city, like, yes, they changed a lot of... There are a couple, the one biggest similarity between the first Predator. Yeah, I just realized something funny about that movie too. Sure. Do you understand that with Predator 2, there's really only three white characters? Yes! And of those three, one is the guy, one is Criton's father from Farscape. I always love that it's the other role I know him for. Who's basically just the, you barely see him. He's just the chief character, right? Yeah, there are two characters. For the captain, whatever. Yeah, is Gary Bucey. Actually, no, there's four because Gary Bucey is under his... Yeah, but they're, they're barely in the movie till the very end, really. Yeah, and then there's, oh my God. Bill Paxton, Bill Paxton, who is a secondary, there are no... And gets killed! And gets killed, but gets killed in a very well done scene. No, no, what I'm saying is, the white guy isn't the only guy who left a lot. I love Bill Paxton in that movie because he comes off such a blowhard and you expect him to, like, you know, crap out when they need him, and he doesn't. Like, he follows through completely. And then there's Doug's point. They start you off thinking he's going to be an asshole, and he slowly gets better and better and better. No, he does, and then you feel really bad when he dies. And that's the thing is, that's the setup. He's got that horrible line where he's like, he says something like, God damn, what the hell are you? What the hell are you? Yeah, exactly. But yeah, I just realized that there's really only, there are no primary white characters in that movie. Yeah, and the only real one-to-one similarity, the only thing they, I mean, they do, like, they do the ugly motherfucker. Like, I think they do a couple things I don't like because they're kind of direct checks to the first movie. Hey, listen, to be honest, the predator is an ugly motherfucker. Well, he is, but I don't like the fact that they made the predator talk so much. It's bad when he's talking. They wanted to show off that they had that articulated face, and it doesn't work. It's not good. Yeah, but the thing is, is it, is it talking or isn't it just using me? No, no, when he says motherfucker, he's talking because his helmet's off. Oh, motherfucker. It's, it's bad. He finishes the line, which doesn't make sense either unless they pass the wrong game on predator world, which maybe they did. Honestly, if I had my way, I'd get, like, you, me, Doug, like maybe a few other people. And I just redub all these movies and the comedies. Oh, because some of them are so easy. Especially when I hear your impersonation of the predator. I mean, that's, that's how you make, that's how you make a comedy. No, it's, that's what he saw too. No, I don't even have for all. I'm just saying that that's, like, that's how you make it the funniest. No, but, but for the predator, you get, like, well, if Gilbert Goffrey had died, that's who used up in for him. No. Motherfucker. Come back here. I just want your skull. Yeah. Turn around. Turn around. So. Yeah. The point being that Joe's video is coming. That's coming out. And that Joe may have to figure out a simple workaround if they pull his video in the state. Well, the audio version for sure will come out because that will not going to be blocked because that's on the lips inside. So it may be that the audio version posts first because I'm going to fight YouTube to get the version I made out. Because you're, oh, this is your question. How hard is it to put smiley faces? Yeah. The problem is if there, it depends on how their copyright system works. So a smiley face is a static image, right? So either I would have to make it so huge you couldn't see anything or I'd have to have it track with the faces to move. Oh, because they're moving. Okay. That's the thing. If I'm using still images, it's easy. That's the, oh, can you, can you use a still image? I could, but. But just for, listen, if you've got to use a still image just for this one shot and then run a little thing on the bottom that says still shop because of copyright, thank you. You're right. Thank you, YouTube. Well, here's what I'm going to do is, like I said, the audio version will be fine and you'll have all the audio. You just won't have visual. So that'll be out. That'll be out as planned. If they somehow reject my appeal to the video, then I will, I guess I'll do, but I'm not, I'm going to fight as far as I can because I really believe. And they haven't rejected any of mine yet. I think because I've made a reasonable case. And I think if you just read the explanation, which is the problem with all this, it's automated. So this is partially an automation problem is it is, I can honestly say that we are trying to get people to see this stuff. Therefore, the money will go to the companies, not us. And I think the combination of saying we're not monetized and we're not trying to. And we are advocating for people to see these movies. You know, I think I made this point the last time I was talking about this. I'm not, you know, doing videos on Titanic or Star Wars where there is a flood of, you know, there's a million, that's just going to be automatic revenue is when you see Star Wars or something that's James Cameron, whatever. These movies are generally, a lot of movies we're talking about are not well known or like the Tarkovsky ones are foreign. Like I said, they don't really care. It belongs to them and it's their money. You know what I mean? It's that kind of mindset. Well, maybe I think when they read that and they see what the movies actually are, then I think that's why we keep getting them clear is because we're not going for, you know, I wish you, I wish you the best of luck. So that's, so that's going to be out. And then tomorrow, as of the posting of this show, I will be on heartbeat heroes radio show as the main interview guest at eight 30 p.m. Paris time. So figure that out yourself. I don't know what that is everywhere. So if you're interested, I mean, he'll release it later. But if you want to watch it live, yeah, yeah, I will be on there. I don't know why he's interested in interviewing me, except maybe because I do these movie things because I don't think I'm that interesting and I'm not a musician, but I see he's asking. I'm like, sure, I don't care. You know why he's interviewing you. Yeah, because I'm so pretty. No, no, it's not that it's because you now have the skill of conversation. I do sort of have that. Listen, it is skill. It is a skill because like I never think it's a skill. And then I go out to do like anything and I end up having conversations with everybody about everything. And I'm always like, why are people talking to me? I'm always like, because you're really good at talking to people. And that's the thing is that you and I have been doing this for so long with each other that it's like seamless because both of us are both interested and curious about everybody. And we have a lot of opinion and an interesting concern and a lot of ways to put funny slants on things. Right? Well, and you are as much as I don't like to credit myself with anything because I don't. I was watching something. I'm going to keep this very vague because I don't like throwing people under the bus for anything. No, no, no. By all means. But I was watching it was a video on YouTube where this individual was interviewing two other individuals who I really like and I like their movies. And this person kept looking at their phone, their cell phone to ask these two people questions in such, to me, was such a disrespectful manner. Did they, is that where their questions were or something? Yeah, but okay. But these were not. I know. I know. Listen, your phone should be in your pocket and you should have a little piece of paper with the question. You should be interested. Yeah, well, that, that, yes, both of those things, absolutely, but the other thing is these weren't 17 sentence questions that you could not have memorized. They were basic questions, such as what's your favorite movie of the genre that you did movies in that, you know, like literally that was one of the questions that another one was what's your favorite movie of yours that you've done. Now, if you can't remember those questions, I'm sorry. You shouldn't be doing interviews. I don't care what your background is. You are not equipped if you cannot remember. If you could be, if you could be, if you could have played the main character from any movie, what would it be? Are you asking me that or is that an example question? No, it's no, that's an actual question. For me? Could I have an, I have an answer. Yeah, if you, if you could magically just be the actor who played one character in a movie, like suddenly you had the acting skills. You could, and you could do one movie where you the lead character, right? What would it be? Because I have an answer. Geez. Go ahead. You go first because that's a hard question for me. I would want to be Jack Burton in big trouble in China. No, definitely wouldn't be a big one. I think that role, I think that role would lend itself well to me. I love that movie and the idea of me being in that movie I think would be so hilarious. Listen, not that, not that I think that I'm as good looking as Kurt Russell or as like, you know, not at all. It's just this idea of having the ability to see myself in that movie in that setting would be really fun. Okay. Yeah. I'm thinking of this as if I was an actor, which I'm not. Yeah, no, no, no. You suddenly had like, you know, we, we, we changed your stats. We went behind the development curtain and we changed your stats and you had like charisma a million. And you were an amazing actor for one movie. Yeah. Okay. Now this is funny. It's the same movie, but two roles and I don't know which one I'd want more. Okay. Oliver Stone's JFK. I either want to be Donald Sutherland's character, Mr. X, where he gives that speech about who benefited. Like, that's a great. Yeah. Forget the movie's factual, whatever. Or I want to do the costume speech at the end. Okay. Yeah, it's tough because Sutherland, his little bit is so great. How he acts it, how, what he's saying. Oh, no, you're right. It's like such a beautiful little piece of dialogue. I think costume speech at the end is one of the best speeches. Remember we were talking about speeches? Yeah, really good. Yeah. There's one I should have remembered at that point. That is one of his best performances. Period. You could do the Southern. I could see you in the Southern role. Yeah, I could probably manage that. Oh, I know. If you had soup bridge. If you had, well, then you could, yeah. But so, but you know what? You had an answer. That's good. Yeah. Well, listeners, think about that. Think about that and share if you feel like it. Because it is funny to think, because like, that's the first movie when I think of something like that. There's a movie that comes to me. Where I'm like, oh, yeah, wouldn't that be funny? Just like to be in that role. Yeah. See, and that's the thing is, you know, I think a lot of people would probably want to be in an action film and be the action. I don't, I don't look. No, I like speeches more. I like Jack. I like the idea of Jack Burton's character to me because he has these minor moments of greatness. But otherwise, it's like, you know, he's secondary. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it's very funny because it's like, yeah, I like that. And it's more funny that it is action, really. Oh, yeah. Even him. Yes. So anyway, sorry. Yeah, I understand that. So you have, you have the ability to converse very well and you have a lot of stuff in your back pocket and there's no dead air with you. But I mean, that's the other thing too. There's no, this, you and I have basically trained each other to be able to chat. This is true. I told you, I told you how like my, my father passed away. They gave me the wrong time for his wake. And I showed up half hour early. And there was nobody there. And the, the, they called the guy who ran the home already. The partition? The funeral home. The guy who ran the funeral home is like. A funeral home directly. Yeah. He's like, if you want to go in there and hang out, you can. And I, and I was kind of like, well, I guess I should. And I remember I sat, you know, the little pew in that where you like kneel in front of the open casket. Yeah. I remember I sat on that little pew in front of my father's grave. And I basically just made like idle chit chat with my dad for half an hour. And, you know, and like it was, it was a while later that I thought back to that. I'm like, dude, you can talk to the dead at this point. You're not getting a lot of responses. But you can almost imagine what they are. But yeah, it's a skill. Conversation is a skill. And, and being able to stay interested, stay curious, and to consistently pull things out of your, out of your quiver, shall we say. It's not a skill everybody has. And I, I didn't used to believe that. But my wife has pointed it out to me enough times, especially as I talk to everybody. Like, and, and the thing is like, you know, I don't like to. That's the funny part about this. My daughter is who's an extrovert is like, but dad, you, but you can talk like an extrovert. And I'm like, but I don't want to be. Like, that's the thing. It's just a weird. Like, it's almost, it's an, it's an automatic reflex that kicks in when I'm in like public. Um, but I like to talk to everybody. And I, and you do as well, even though much like me, you're not, you're not jamming to be social with strangers. You are interested and you are, you know, you are good-hearted and you've got a lot to say. And you're willing to sit back and listen and you're willing to throw in. You're willing to have fun. And you're willing to tear apart things that you love because you understand that they're built together. They're put together so well. You know, there's a lot of people who can't have a conversation about, um, you know, um, an album or a book or a movie that they like because they, they can't handle the idea of tearing it apart. And yet still loving it for the things that are great about it. You can do that. There's a lot of people who can't. But they sit down and go, "This is the greatest movie ever." And you're like, "Yeah, I know. It's a great movie. What about A, B, and C?" You know, and they're like, ignore those, these movies are great. You know, and it's like, "No, no, no, you can take it, warts and all." You know, but acknowledge the warts. So, no, I could totally see why somebody would interview you. I mean, theoretically, I've been interviewing you for years. Well, we've been interviewing each other. [laughter] The Endless Project. That's true. That's true. [laughter] Yeah, that's probably, it's actually probably a different, that's probably a good way to describe. Because people say, "Oh, what's the show about?" And I should at some point say, "Oh, it's just me and my best friend continually interviewing each other as we grow older." It's not an accurate. It's a life span, it's a life span psychological examination at this point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I actually have shit to review tonight, believe it or not. Oh, well. Okay. I know normally I bring the scientific, psychological, doom and gloom apocalyptic spiritual shit. But tonight I actually have material I want to talk about. Well, before you get to that, did you want to discuss at all the Robert Downey Jr., Dr. Doom thing? Because I'm fascinated by it. I know nothing about this. Oh. Oh, man. I've been, hold on. I've been on a media blackout for that like a week. So, two things. Okay. Because San Diego Comic-Con just wrapped up. Oh! I did. Did you know I did a shit? Yes. So, there's a whole bunch of shit that's coming out. Two big things. First is Robert Downey Jr. came on stage and is going to be Dr. Doom in an Avengers movie called Avengers Doomsday, which I would imagine DC as a problem. Oh my God, I wonder if their angle on Dr. Doom is this idea that if Tony Stark went the wrong way, he would have become Dr. Doom. I think that's it. Oh! Because Ken was the multi-verse, but he hangs out. No, I agree. A lot of people are like, "Oh, this is stupid." I'm like, "Well, I'm pretty sure something like that happened in the comics." That's Robert Downey Jr. That's Robert Downey Jr. having fun and knowing he can get away with it. Yeah, it's just another iron suit, which is this kind of funny. You know, you will get to see his eyes. Yeah, that's the thing is people had said, "Well, we may never see his face, so is this just a voice roll?" No, you'll see his eyes. Well, they probably won't be his, though. I don't even know it'll be him. It doesn't matter. It might be him. What do you call it, Darth Vader's situation? And here's the thing, if you see the series, sorry, excuse me, he did recently, where he plays like three or four different people. I think it's called The Believer? How does it call? I think it's called The Believer's. I think that's what it's called. Yeah, and he plays like four different roles. He loves costume. He loves artifice. He loves doing voices. Oh, the picture of him is great, because he's soaking it up. He's dressed all in green with a chain and he's holding one of the masks and there's a bunch of doombots or whatever around him. It's great. Oh, man. No, I haven't seen that at all. Oh, yeah. Son of a bitch. Yeah, so, and this has been rumored and people thought it was bullshit because it seemed too crazy, but. Yeah. I remember going, well, I can see it. It's a different role and he's, it's. Oh, yeah. Look at the picture. Yeah. See that? Yeah. Yeah. There's two Avengers movies. One's called Secret Wars and the other is Doomsday, which is interesting. Oh, I know they're bringing the Russo brothers back. Yeah, for both, I think for both of them, which is interesting. And it was a huge part of Secret Wars, so I wonder if this is kind of. Oh, dude. It's a huge character. Like the thing is, Marvel has avoided. They have, they got lucky when they decided to use Loki as this, like, spanning storyline, because Loki goes from being villain to finally concluding as hero, right? So, like, that was an interesting villain, but it's a villain that became a hero, right? Well, in fairness, they got lucky in two ways. One, they, they, they managed that character exceptionally well and they got probably one of the best possible people to play him. Yeah. And on top of that, yeah, and on top of that, he didn't do anything fucked up, like get, you know, arrested for, you know, raping a homeless person or beating, you know, their spouse to half death. He, like, he didn't, he didn't do any crazy criminal shit. Oh, that's the other thing now is that you have to find someone who can act and who can also not get a massive criminal record. So, in that respect, since then, you know, I didn't, I know that, I know the reason Kang is out, Kang is out, because he was convicted, right? Wasn't he? I believe he has, I think, a salt or something like that. A salt, and I think a salt, so either way, I understand why he's out. I didn't mind Kang as a villain. I didn't mind the actor outside of his misconduct. I didn't mind the actor. He seemed like he could handle very different roles. I actually liked the way they explored different iterations of the character in Loki, the series, right? But that said, Marvel has a ton of really incredible high stakes villains, right? Dr. Doom, wasn't Dr. Doom's at the helm of the new Secret Wars with all the different universes? Yeah, I was going to say, that's what, yeah, so I think this is what he did. So this is the thing, if you're taking a multiversal approach right now to your characters, well then, this is what it culminates in. It culminates in the Doom Secret Wars, and then the universe gets reset. And that's what Marvel wants, because once they reset it, shit, you can cast anyone you want for any role and do the whole thing over again differently. Yeah, I mean, I was never a fan of Kang in the comics, in the movies, nothing. I never had your interest. King in the comics was a joke, honestly. I didn't think he was any different in the show. I had no interest in that character. Hawkeye was a joke in the comics, too. Hawkeye didn't get cool until they did Ultimate Avengers, when they basically turned him into Bullseye. Look, you can take any character and make them good. I didn't think of the version of Kang that we were getting and seemed all interesting. So I'm glad he's out. But outside of Dark to Do, I mean, like I said, Marvel's got a lot of really great villains, really good ones. I mean, they could do the whole Century storyline. You don't even need a villain for that. The hero is the villain, right? So, I mean, that's the thing. The first Century story is so good, that if you just made the first Century book with the Fantastic Four and everything, as a movie, you would need to make any more Century movies, because that is it. I mean, the thing that angers me about the Century is that they kept making more. That one Century book was near perfect. The idea of the hero, who was his first villain. Yeah, before they decided to start expanding it out. Yeah, you know. So this idea of him playing... Yeah, I think it's hilarious. I really do hope that this version of Doctor Doom is like an Iron Man who went wrong. Because the Doom bots make sense, you know, like... Yeah. Yeah, I think it's great. Yeah, that's interesting. Did anything else come out interesting? Well, if you remember, remember when I kept talking about the Fantastic Four and what I kept saying about it? That the only way it could possibly work is if it was retro? If it's in like the 60s or the 70s, yeah. And it is. They've set it in the alternate 60s, where it's like they've got flying Jetsons cars. Oh, God. It's Galactus shows up. They show him in the footage. It got leaked. So you see him looking a window for... and he's a person now. He's not a giant cloud. He is a person wearing a giant helmet. But the font and everything looks very, very, very retro. I mean, it looks exactly what I think is the only way you can make it work. It's called Fantastic Four First Steps, I think. Is the subtitle? I mean, it looks like the 50s Golden Age sci-fi. As long as Marvel is willing to have fun with their products, I think people will be willing to watch it. I haven't seen it yet, but the spoilers are reading for it. It sounds like a lot of fun. Oh, sounds goofy as hell, which is great. But this is the thing is watching the footage of the Fantastic Four. I thought of Guardians of the Galaxy. That's what I kept getting reminded of seeing it. And I'm like, that's a good sign. Good. So that's a huge positive because I am interested in that movie. It's probably the thing Marvel has done recently that I'm the most interested outside of Deadpool, which I don't even count as Marvel, really. I know what it is. No, no. If anything, that movie is a good-bye-love letter to the Fox products. Yeah, it's a Ryan Reynolds production. It's like a Spike Lee joint. It's a double-r joint. You know, it's one of those. Yeah, but you know, listen. Honestly, give Ryan Reynolds the MCU for a while. No, that's what I'm saying. I agree. You had Gambit show up. He had Elektra and Blade, I mean, what the fuck? Yeah. And even the skeleton of Ant-Man is supposed to be referenced to the director who didn't get to make his version of Ant-Man. Oh, yeah. I don't remember that. Oh, I tryt, tryt. Whatever his name was. Who cares? Yeah, it's a reference to the Ant-Man movie that wasn't made. Yeah. So like, even that's hilarious. You know, I love that level of humor. Yeah, I don't know if there was anything else, but those are the two big things. You know, there was other announcements, but I think the, you know, the only other thing that was interesting particularly to me is that Prime is now making a Yakuza TV show. And based on Fallout, I hope it's great because I love Yakuza. Oh, you mean the game? The game? Yeah. They're making Yakuza games. They actually have a trailer for it, but I watched it. I'm like, okay, this is too small for me to know anything. But the fact that Fallout was so good makes me hope it's going to be great because... I didn't realize the Downey Junior came out in the Doom mask. No, that's why I said he's got the armor and he's surrounded by either Doombots or whatever. Yeah. No, people must have lost their shit. Oh, I'm sure. I haven't seen footage of his coming out, but I'm sure it was, you know... People lost their shit. Yeah. I'm sure they did. So... Yeah, those were the two big ones. The one, the Downey Junior thing being noteworthy just because it's fascinating. I don't know whether that means he's going to be good Avengers movies or not, but the Fantastic Four one is the more interesting, is the more personally interesting one because... It's exactly... Obviously somebody else besides me, which is not me saying I'm so kind of genius, but this was obviously clear to a lot of people that you can't do a modern Fantastic Four. At least not straight out of the game, you have to make a retro. Well, you can teleport them to the modern day, but you've got to start retro. If that's how they do it, that would be fantastic. If they have it where they are fish out of water types... And they have these antiquated ideas on things and stuff, but they're geniuses. Especially because... As people have figured out, and again, this is not news, but it is now becoming more widespread where people are aware of the fact that... That Sue Storm is an Omega-level character because she can kill anything with those force fields, and she can be invisible while she does it, so you never know what is happening. So... Yeah, that is the most promising. The Fantastic Four thing is promising to me now. So we're clear, they did lose their fucking shit. I have the video in the background. Oh, well, no doubt, but... Yeah, they lost their fucking minds. Of course they did. I mean, he is still really the... He is the mascot for Marvel. Oh, I love it. The first thing he said when he took the masks off and he saw the crowd, he goes, "New Mask!" Yeah, well, that's funny. There is an irony in the fact that... That's cool. No, you know what? I want you to name the show "Irony Man" now. Irony Man. There you go, done and done. Oh, man, that's hilarious. Irony Man. Yeah, it is kind of funny. It's the Irony Man and the Iron Mask. Okay. So, no, that's good. I'm happy about all that. It sounds like fun. Have fun. Listen, movies are entertainment. Some movies are there to teach us lessons. Some of you there just entertain the fuck out of us. That's what Marvel should do. Yeah. I love the comics growing up. Let's make it fun. They have so much to pull on. And I do. Oh, one other thing that I also think is a good sign is they said who Giancarlo Esposito is playing in the Captain America film. Yeah. And he's a minor villain. So, they actually said that's because we're not trying to make another tempo movie. We're trying to make an espionage film. I'm like, "That's good. That sounds like what a soldier is." Yeah, good, good, good. Yeah, I mean, it'll be interesting to see how that... You know, I both like... I like that they have these Marvel movies that shift tones and are more espionagey. I'm just not always in the mood for them. I read that the Black Widow movie was more espionagey. And I want to see it because I like Scouching Hanson. But I do like that they're now getting into... They've got their sub-genres now. I mean, this is our more espionagey superhero movie. More space. And I think that's going to become even more prominent as they go on. I hope it does. You remember, we talked about that a while back where we were saying we hope they kind of start putting pockets of different types of films. You know, honestly, if they did L-Squared's movies, remember when they did... Oh, was it 19? Is it 1812? What was this? The Marvel series that... Yeah, I think it was 18... Or was it... Was it 1700 or something like that when they reimagined them? I know what it means. Yeah, they reimagined all the characters in a past period. But what would happen if these characters tried to happen? And it was actually really good because, you know, some characters lend themselves well to it. And some, not so much, but it was a lot of fun in the storyline. You know, and it's like you can do that. 1602, that's what it's called. 1602, there you go. And you've got all... Like I said, you've got so many characters. And if you're dealing with else worlds anyway, then you can kind of do what you want. Yeah. You know, you can do what you want for a while. Eventually, people will get sick of it and then you can bring it all back together and make it so there's just one timeline for a while. Well, I mean, this is historically, both Marvel and DC have done very good alternate whatever's of their stuff. Yeah, oh yeah, their else worlds stuff is usually better. Yeah. Yeah. So that's... So... Good. Anyway, that was... Well, I have... I thought you knew something about that song. No, no, I literally, I've been in kind of a weird media blackout. I mean, I wonder what we found out about an hour ago or so. I think it's because what do you call the Olympics are at? My wife likes to watch the Olympics, so we're like, "We've just kind of been paying..." Well, that is something better to pay attention to, let's be honest. Oh, I don't know about that. Some Olympic... Some Olympic shit is cool. Some Olympic shit is silly. I mean, the athletes. I don't mean all the stuff around it. But I mean, I'll tell you, listen, the water polo... First off, I love watching women's water polo. Not because they're being... Also, wait a minute, wait a minute. No, unequivocally, it is more... It's better to pay attention to, because all that Marvel stuff, they're making billions of dollars compared to what these athletes who make nothing and barely can afford to do anything. So yes, pay attention to them, by all means. Watching these women tread water for this entire game, and then when they go to catch the ball, they like... No, when they go to catch the ball, they like, they rise out of the water, and I'm watching it thinking, are you standing on something? And then they have this shot where they show them from below, and you realize that the pool is really deep. And I'm like, I would drown if I was doing this. No, they are propelling themselves upwards. That's amazing, yeah. That's what I'm saying is, don't parse anything. It is better to support the athletes and the Olympics by watching them than any of this Marvel horse shit, which is just people playing around on green screens. Let's be honest. We found out that we have peacock by accident, because we have... When I had COVID, we ended up getting, I think it's called Instacart, right? And if you get Instacart something, you automatically get peacock as part of your Instacart. Yeah, there's some weird, weak, me game. We are getting grub hub because of Amazon now. Oh, interesting. So, but here's the thing. We tried watching it on peacock, right? And the footage is so fucking awful. They hit you with advertisements every like five minutes, and the advertisements are a minute and a half long, and they just keep hitting you over and over again. It was so bad that we opted to watch everything on YouTube instead. This is the indictment. We got less ads and more content on YouTube watching the Olympics than on fucking peacock who has the right to air this shit. Wow, that's interesting. We're not getting any of that. We've watched it, and the only ads we get are at the very beginning. No, no, we're getting ads continuously. Maybe it's the type of peacock we have, perhaps. Well, you know what? We're through Comcast, which does own NBC, so maybe it's not. Dude, it was terrible. Yeah, here's the thing. That sounds like what YouTube says. We turned to streaming because we didn't want fucking ads anymore. And if we're just going to go back to ads now, I'm pretty fucking tired of it. I'd rather just not bother. I'm pretty sure everybody has that significance. No, because it's one thing. Paramount+, you get a Paramount-based ad in kind of the beginning, and they don't fucking bother you for the rest of the thing, right? Actually, and they've improved it. You can skip those now. You used to be able to. I didn't-- Yeah, that's-- I didn't notice that within the last-- No, it used to be watching evil. The opposite of evil, which is fantastic. What was it called? Evil. It is one of the-- Oh, the show. Yeah, it's a change. It's a-- It's a kipper, right? It's a kipper, right? Well, no, Rock the S. O'Pannon. The first one got-- Oh, Rock the Vanna. That's what it was. Yeah, a Rock the Vanna. Yeah, a Rock the Vanna. What have we said? Yeah, he's behind it. Good, good. Oh, it's fantastic. But I'm saying, bother me in the beginning. That's fine. But don't bother me while I'm watching it. That fucking irritates the shit out of me. Quickly. You know? And like, when you bother me-- Like, there's one thing if I'm on YouTube and I'm not paying shit for it anyway, and you're like, hey, we're going to throw like, you know, five minutes of ads at you for watching a 45 minute video, right? And parse it out, right? You know what? I'll do the math on that. 45 minutes of a very decent video that I want to watch for five minutes of ads dispersed. Okay. But when I'm trying to watch, you know, we'll call it 10 minutes of video on your streaming thing and you're giving me three minutes of ads, three to 10 is a ratio that you can go fuck yourself with. All right, I'm with you there. So, if this is the direction we're going, guess what? I think DVDs are going to come back in my life. Well, that's-- it's a bunch of videos and exactly that. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, yes, I actually have stuff to talk about today. Okay. Now, what-- the first thing I want to talk about is the art brief. Oh, wait a minute. If you'd like to support our show, go to supportourshow.com. There you go. That's what I forgot. So, remember I reviewed a book back-- a while back called Bird King? Yes. By Crom and Daniel Friedman? Yeah. Yeah. I reviewed the first volume. I really liked it. I finally read the second volume because they're kind of-- they're kind of-- they come out slow, which is fine. It's a two-man team. It's great. Sure. I wanted to review it briefly. I still enjoy the shit out of it. The art hasn't changed. So, like, everything from my first review is still true. So, you know, if you want, find that in our archive and that'll give you the, you know, the art is neat. It's a kind of a mixture of cartoonish, but kind of stylized. It's a fantasy story that's very neat. It's its own creative-- it's its own new world. It's an interesting storyline. And it wasn't till I read the second volume that this idea crystallized in my mind, which is reading this book is like if-- it was basically-- it's almost as if you had it's almost as if you had-- so, you know how there are humans on the side of-- it's not Saruman or Sauron. Which one is it? Saruman or Sauron? Can you remember which one? No, no. You talk about the wizard or the main bad guy? The main bad guy. The main guy guy is Sauron. Saruman is a wizard. Okay. I got it. You know, if Tolkien was a smart guy, he should have named these guys with something differently. Instantly. Great deal of irony again in the fact that I, who haven't read a single one of those goddamn books-- no, I can remember that. I can consistently fuck those two up. Anyway, so Sauron. So, and you know how there were humans who were fighting for Sauron? They had like mercenaries and humans and things like that. Yeah, they were. Did you-- did you ever imagine what their story must be that they're working for this like evil lord, right? Well, you've read the books. Did they know what they were doing? No, you know what? There's very little-- I remember there was very little information about them. Okay. Well, then there'll be a series on that coming at some point. They, they came from some other land, you know. So either way, Bird King, I realize now, is if you were reading about a character, a human, who grows up on the wrong side of that barrier, who grows up in this, in the lands of Sauron, and who thinks that Sauron is the king, and that, and everybody's fighting for Sauron against those, those other bastards. And then somebody basically goes, wait a minute, they, they might not be the bad guys, maybe, maybe we're the bad guys, and then gets a ring wraith to help them defect. That's kind of what this book feels like to me now, because the main character has this wraith that is helping them and, and, and the main character is not strictly human either. There's some kind of race that has the ability to endure fire and, and they can make these weapons that can bring back the dead. Sorry. What's the name of this book again? It's called Bird King. Oh, oh, oh, okay. So this is the next volume of the one? Yeah, this is the second volume. Sorry, this one. This one. Got it. Yeah. So in this book, they're trying to get to Atlas. Atlas is the, the group that everyone is fighting. The, in the first book, in the first two chapters of the first book, you, you sit there and go, well, there's an analyst or the atlas. Fuck them. This book goes on, you realize that the leader of these people is basically some kind of evil necromancer wizard that has gone fucking nuts. And he's basically just throwing everybody at these people to die, right? And then the main girl works for this blacksmith who makes these wraith weapons and when they attack her and he steps in and it turns into a big fight and he, the blacksmith dies before he dies. He tells the girl, Atlas is not evil. It's better there. Get out of here. And so she and the bird king, which is the wraith, start traveling to get to this other land. And this is where it becomes very Lord of the Rings. There's a lot of walking. There's a lot of walking through a world that is basically like trodden with war, right? And right away, the Lord of the Rings kind of references, like that's not even the references, but these little things pop up, like at one point they're walking through this giant marsh, right? And it's that scene from Lord of the Rings where they've got all the dead elves in the marsh, right? Except in this version, when the dead kind of climb out of the marsh and they start to kind of reach for the girl, the bird king kind of cuts one of them in half and they're like kind of ectoplasm. And some creature basically says, don't hurt them. And the girl's like, yeah, don't hurt me and the creature's like, no, no, no, don't hurt them. He's like, they're dead. He's like, they can't harm you. He's like, you know, these are the people that used to live here and they were destroyed by your king. And so like they keep turning these things on their head a little bit, right? So like the marshes are like that, and then they have to get through to atlas. The only past that's left to them is to go through the mountains. And like that, the whole phrasing of it is so familiar to me, right? Where it's like, oh, if you want to, you have to go through the past and the mountains. But then the past and the mountains takes them down to what is essentially the minds of Moria. And there's a whole scene that's very Gandalf where like she, she or her mother had gone to war. You hear about her in the first book. And in this book, she reunites with her mother, but I like the way they do it because it's not like a cheesy, reunited thing where she's like, oh my God, I love you and I'm totally going to follow you at the ends of the earth. The mother's like, no, no, no, I left you because our race needs to prove itself to the gods. And this little girl who's like, I don't understand what the hell you're talking about. She's like, yeah, she's like, we have to prove herself to the gods. We don't have gods of her own. So we have to prove herself to these gods. And you do that through battle. And that's why the mother is working for the, like the evil wizard king, not because she sides with them, just because she needs a battled, proved herself to it. But she decides to help her daughter to at least get most of the way to Atlas. And so she goes with her to the, well, essentially the minds of Moria, and they meet this dead god. And there's like a lot of little references that make me think Lord of the Rings. So they go underground and when they get to the underground, instead of dealing with like a, with goblins, they're dealing with kind of the ghosts of the dead that live there. And then, you know, they're running down stairwells. And then there's this final push where they have to get across the river. And someone says, grab the children and go. And the wraith king, the bird king grabs like the, at this point, there's like a group of people, she picks people up along the way. The bird king grabs the little girl and her friend and like another guy and jumps across the river. And the mother, who's dressed like a wizard, stays behind and has this fucking Gandalf moment where she's like, no, she's like, you go. She's like, I'm staying. And then the girl's like, why? Why are you staying? And she's like, because fighting, you know, rather than saying fly you fools, she goes, because fighting a god is pretty fucking impressive. And that's the last time you see her. And I just, I like, I can see their references, but much like the Matrix, like if you knew all the stuff that they pulled on for the Matrix, when you saw the Matrix, your Matrix movie felt like an homage to like all these other movies and these books that you've read, right? Which didn't make it unoriginal. Which didn't make it bad. It just made it so that you, you felt like you could connect with the directors because they were pulling on a lot of the same resources that you pulled on, right? Whereas this book so far is beginning to feel like somebody who grew up with Lord of the Rings and wanted to almost like do their own weird version of it, except in reverse. Do you know what I mean? And the other thing is like, you know, instead of a ring, it's this, it's this wraith sword that has all this power that can bring the dead back, but when she finally gets through to Atlas, the, what I love too is that so far in the book everything is written, is drawn very dark and creepy and those, everything's very, and then like the monstrous elements are kind of normalized, whereas the second you get through the mountain and you get to Atlas, they look like the heroes in Lord of the Rings. Everyone's like blond and they're in like silver armor with like blue tabards and like it's a very different vibe and you're like, oh shit, I was like, these are the good guys. And of course they don't trust them at all when they come through because they're traveling that they are from the side of the enemies and they have a fucking wraith with them, a wraith warrior and yet the story the writer knows how to throw these little things in there that are different. So when they get to the, essentially what is an outpost and the outpost is freaking out because they have walls keeping out bad guys, the walls are coming down and so they're not sure if they have to leave and when you get there, you find out essentially these people have a destroyed wraith. One of the other wraiths that was fighting for the evil king, they destroyed his weapon and they caught it and without a weapon the wraiths can't be channeled, right, so it's just a hulk of armor. But when this particular sword that was being forged was actually meant for the wraith at this castle, so when the bird king meets up with this other wraith, the sword activates them both and there's a huge fucking fight which destroys the castle, which is no way to ingratiate yourself on people and in the end, the bird king does destroy the other wraith for ownership of the weapon but shatters the weapon in the process. So once the weapon is destroyed for the time being, so is the bird king. So the little girl is basically left with the shards of this weapon and is now a prisoner of the Empire of Atlas and they're being essentially led away by chains further into their territory away from the war. It's a really fun book. I do like this kind of strange familiar and yet has enough new ideas thrown in fantasy. I'm curious about the world, I want to know what's going on. There's a lot of hardcore world building, even as I can read references, I find the references endearing and fun rather than being like, "Oh, you took that load of the rigs." It's like, "No, no, no, I can see what you're feeling here." The art is still consistent. So if you like the art from the start, you're good, otherwise, I don't know if it's going to grow on you, and there's a humanism to it that's enjoyable. So at one point, the little girl and the bird king end up with the ranks of the evil army because they think that the bird king has been sent there to help them, right? And that's when the little girl sees like a former friend of hers and says, "Hey, we're not here to fight. We're here to get the fuck out." And the friend goes, "Oh, I don't want to die with these people. I'll come with you." And I like that there's this realism to this level, like there are people who are fanatics, but then there are people who are just like, they've just been drafted. So when the friend has a little company of troopers that with her, the troopers are like, "Oh, you're leaving? Oh, fuck, we're coming with you." And they're like, "And the question is, well, why?" And they're like, "Well, we don't believe in this shit. We don't want to die. Fuck this." And like, "I like that. I'm dealing with this, this, this humanist level." You know, dealing with these like super wizards and all this shit, we're like, "We're going to fight and everyone's going to die." Like, you have these soldiers at the bottom, they're like, "Let's get the fuck out of here." You know? And then, yes, at the end of the book, you end up with a shattered sword. So I'm sure at some point that'll be reforged and they'll bring back the king. It'll be the return of the king, if you like, but either way, I still enjoy this series quite a bit. I'm looking forward to the third volume. I don't know when the hell it comes out, but I think it's really good. It has a unique look to it. And it's a unique world that has enough references to feel kind of comfortable. And yeah. So there you go, bird king volume two, totally worth reading. Thoughts, feelings? I look forward to it concluding and you giving me your overall review, and then I might read it. And then I might read it. Well, you know my policy. I'm not reading it. It's all done now. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And I don't disagree with you because this is a small operation, so the possibilities of it not being finished is strong, right? Well, actually, I would feel the opposite about that. I think it might take longer. Well, yeah. Well, what I mean is that when you've only got two people, if anything happens to one of those two people, the series is not-- Well, well, that's what I mean. Well, okay. The writer, yes. The writer, artist, you know, you could find somebody else who-- Yeah, I mean, and that would be-- I mean, it would be that jarring. I would bet. I don't know this. But depending on the working relationship, in many cases when you have two people who do things like this, there generally is a discussion, hey, if something happens, you know, if I was the artist, I would say, hey, if I get wiped out in a car accident, find somebody else to finish it. Hey, Joe. Keep going. Yeah. I mean, who are you going to bring into a co-host this shit? No, this would end. I would do something really different. I would do the Led Zeppelin thing. Now, I would go the Led Zeppelin route. It's not saying I would never do another show, but I would not call it this. It would be completely different. It would be different. Well, either way. Yeah. So I understand, in this case, why you don't want to read it. But for me, because you know, I don't mind if things don't end, so far, I find it to be a very entertaining journey. It's swerves when I think it's going to go straight and go straight when I think it's going to swerve. Oh, that's good. It feels comfortable. You know, this idea of this little girl, who, by the way, I call her a little girl, but she's a fucking hard-ass. Like, that's the other thing, too, is that she's not a damsel. She is a damsel in distress and that she is fighting things that are more powerful than her. But she does not fucking give up, you know, and like, yes, she's got the bird king with her. But at the end of the day, like, she doesn't give up. That's the point. You know, the bird king, to some degree, is, that's the other thing, is the relationship between the little girl and the bird king is kind of interesting, because is he doing her bidding? Is he conscious? Does he have a conscious mind? Like, does he know what he's doing? Because he sometimes listens to her, but sometimes doesn't. So like, there is, and the thing is that Rates are supposed to have like no mental capacity, but he does. So it is an interesting dynamic, I'd love to see where it's going. But, that was one thing I read. And then I saw a really interesting movie. Ooh! I did. I saw the boy in the heron. Did you pull clips? I'll fuck you. Slacker. Come on. This is me. Slacker. It's not Slacker, you and I do things completely different. And that's fine, because this is not a soundbite movie, by all means anyway. So, have you read anything about the boy in the heron? This is the last Miyazaki film that came out. Well, I think did he get an Oscar for this? Oscar, did he get one or is just nominated? I don't know. Yes, yes. I know, I know about it. Okay. I totally think that you would enjoy this movie. I'm sure. I like Miyazaki stuff. I just tend to take care of it. That is one of the weirdest of his movies that he has done. If this movie was live action, this would be some kind of weird, oh my God, I don't even know what kind of movie this would be of his life. It would be amazing if it was live action. So the general idea of this movie is that there's a little boy who is, he's living in Tokyo with his parents and then during one of the bombings, his mother dies in a fire, right? And then eventually they leave Tokyo and his father, I think it's like a few years later, the father starts dating his dead wife's younger sister, right? Which to my knowledge, I think that's really weird, but I was actually, so I watched this with my in-laws and they were like, you know, that's not that weird. If you go back in time a little bit, the idea that a man, if he lost his wife would then eventually date the younger sister, it's not that strange. Whereas in the movie, it feels strange, right? Either way, so the father is dating and is going to marry the younger sister who's like only, she's only a few years younger than the dead wife, right? So it's not like it's a little girl, it's a woman. And so the father decides to move with the son to the countryside where she lives on like a big estate, right? And the estate, there's a factory that clearly is making military equipment for the war, which is where the father works, and then the boy is kind of left in this estate, which is a really beautiful kind of series of houses, and there's all these old women, there's like a series of grandmothers. So you have to understand that I saw this and I instantly fell in with this movie because I thought I was the only person who grew up with like... I was going to say, this sounds like it's kind of a tailor for you. Seven grandmothers, right? My grandmother was one of thirteen. I never even met them all, but I had, in this state, I had one, two, three, four, five, I had five grandmothers, and then I had, I never met any of my actual grandfathers, but I had my grandmother's brothers. So it was like I had two different kind of two or three grandfathers, right? So it was like, I instantly kind of connected to this idea of being in this place with all these old women, and as soon as the kid gets there to this place, there is a blue heron that does like a fly-by on him, which is kind of strange. And the, what am I going to call her, the new mother, the sister, I'm trying to figure, I can't remember her name, so I have to know what to call her, mom two, there you go, mom two, there you go. So mom two is pregnant, and mom two is trying really hard to connect with the boy, and the boy is definitely kind of disturbed by this, and the dad is loving but absent, like he's got a job, and so like they get there, and he means like I have to go to work, and he kind of leaves the boy to be with them. And so on the first day to school, the little boy gets into a fight with the other kids, and he's already kind of roughed up, and as he's walking home, he grabs a rock and he hits himself in the side of the head, really hard, so that when he gets home, he's got this giant gash, and he's bleeding, and I can't tell if it's because he wants the attention, or if he wants to get out of school, and this is one of the things I like about this movie. This movie does not fucking spell it out for you, at all. Like there are other Miyazaki movies where like he has to explain things a bit, right? But in this movie, no. He does not spell it out at all, you better fucking pay attention, and you better come up with what you think is going on, because that was one of the things that was interesting watching this with my in-laws, because my father lies like an engineer, or he's an engineer coder type, and he's not like this movie, he's not like this movie, and he wasn't really sure what the hell's going on, whereas like I watched this movie and I was like wow, there's so much going on, so the little boy gets a head wound, and this is when his father shows up, and he says this great line, he was like who did this to you, you gotta tell me who did this to you, so I can take revenge for you, and that's the actual wordage, so I can take revenge, and I was like oh that's fantastic, and the father is done by Christian Bale as well, so it's very funny. There's some really good voice cast for this, William Defoe shows up, what's his name, from the lighthouse, the younger guy from the lighthouse, what's his name? Oh, Pattinson. Pattinson? Pattinson does the voice of the blue hair. By the way, as a very slight aside, such as William Defoe, are the Olympic coverage, do you, are those William Defoe commercials? The commercials. Yes, Jesus Christ. Yeah. There's someone inched. Great. Yeah. Am I an evil, am I a bad person, am I a bad person, am I a bad person, am I a destroying, I'm a tough guy. I'm suddenly like fly, I'm a bit of an athlete myself. Sorry. So little boy gets his head wound, and they have to give him stitches, and he's got this big bandage, and he's in bed, and the father's like don't worry, you don't have to go to school for the rest of the year, he's like I paid off these people, and besides there's a war going on, so who gives a shit, and he prints off and I'm laughing, I'm like okay. So again, you don't know why he himself in the head. So around this time, mom, too, is having morning sickness, and she's getting sick, and she really wants to see the boy, and at one point, when the boy's laying in bed, the bird suddenly pops through the window, and says something like I know where your mother is, she's waiting for you to see her, and he uses this voice, I didn't even realize it was Pattinson, because when the heron talks, he talks in this very like I swear it's like Danny DeVito. It's like Pattinson's doing a Danny DeVito impersonation, which is weird, but it kind of works with the character, and the boy is like get out of here, fucking heron, and like kind of chasing them off, and after that the boy, he goes and he sees mom too, and mom too is very sick and whatnot, and then which boy, boy, which point the boy decides that he's pissed off with the blue heron, and he's going to fucking shoot him, and he goes and he makes a bow for himself from the bamboo, and he makes an arrow, and when he's trying to find, he needs to put the feathers on the arrow. He finds one of the blue heron's feathers that's fallen, and he uses the blue heron's feathers to create the, I mean what do they call the fliers, what do they call them, the arrowhead, on the arrow, I hear what they call, either way, the little arrow, the little pieces on the back of the arrow, yeah, so he makes this arrow, yeah, it might be that, he makes the arrow, and he makes this bow, and he goes into the woods, and before he goes into the woods at one point he sees, or he goes hunting for it, but he doesn't find it, when he gets back he finds a book that his mom liked, and he's reading, and at one point he looks up, and he sees mom to kind of walk into the woods, and everyone keeps going on about this tower in the woods, that their grand uncle used to live in, and he, the legend goes, he became too smart, and one day he just disappeared, and then after like, I think it was an earthquake or something, the building kind of became abandoned, and nobody goes there now, and there was flooding damage, and you know, so this building is kind of looming in the woods out there, and it seems to be where the, where the, the heron lives, so when she disappears mom to, the boy, and one of the old women, who I can't remember her name either, one of the old woman, goes running into the woods, they're all looking for, for mom to, but this one old woman sticks with the boy, and they find this path that leads to eventually leads back to the tower, and the old woman's like, you better not go there, she's like, it's bad luck, no, don't go, don't go, and you know, and the boy's like, I have to go, he's like, because you know what, he's like, even if, even if I'm not looking for mom too, it's like, the heron said my mom is waiting for me, at which point that the heron shows up, and starts talking, talking a bunch of smack, and the boy chases him into the tower, along with the old woman, and when he shoots the arrow at the heron, it's weird, it's once they go into the tower, once you enter, you are no longer in the normal world, you are now on an entirely different set of rules, and those rules make no sense, so it's in that respect, it's very Alice in Wonderland, so the arrow, because it's made from the heron's feathers, when he shoots it, it chases the heron, the heron can't get away, so eventually he puts a hole right through its beak, at which point it regurgitates a human head, and the heron body almost turns into like, a costume that it's wearing, except it still has heron legs, but now it has this like, little hairy Danny DeVito head, right? I love how weird this movie is, and the, the heron basically says, yeah, I know what your fucking mom is, I'm not gonna tell you, but then the master of the tower says, yeah, you are gonna show him, and I'm, you know, basically telling you, this is your job, at which point they all fall through the floor, and the boy wakes up in some other world, he's the heron's gone, the old woman's gone, and he proceeds to go on this weird fuck up like, journey, where like, he finds the younger version of the old woman that was with him, right? And he also finds a young version of his mother, which later on, I do like this, at one point in the story they cut back to his father, and the, and the other old woman that are looking for them, to kind of give you this sense that it, it, I thought for the longest time that he was gonna be laying in bed the whole time, it was gonna be like a big head wound story, right? But he's not, because mom too is missing, and now they're missing as well, and the little boy is not laying in bed, because they know he's missing, dad bail is looking for him, along with the old women, and one of the old woman tells dad bail the story, that at one point or another, his, his dead wife, she went into, she went missing in the woods, and she was gone for like a week, or something like that, and then when she finally appeared, she had no recollection of where she'd been, but she was perfectly happy, and she just disappeared, and so it was part of the mystery of this fucking tower, so when the little boy goes into this other world, he eventually finds his mom, but she's young, she's like the little girl that went into the tower, when she, who got lost in the tower when she was younger, and I'd love to try to explain all the shit that's going on in this other world, they've got pelicans, they eat human souls, and they call them budgies, what do they call them, parakeets, that there are parakeets in this world that are oversized, so they're the sizes of like, almost like, like giants, like big giant people, and they eat everything, so if they catch you, they'll eat you, and the king of the parakeets is voiced by Batista, which is fantastic, because he shows up, but the thing is they're still parakeets, so they're fucking adorable and yet horrible, they're like all happy and like brightly colored with the little beaks, but they've all got like pitchforks and axes and things, because they're gonna cut you up and eat you, and the thing is that little, the little boy is trying to find his mother, but to some degree he's also trying to find mom too, because she's in there somewhere, and the little girl is his mother, and knows that mom too is there as well, and knows that mom too is her little sister, even though she's like a 30 something year old woman, so there's only this kind of interesting dynamics, and then you realize that the grand uncle, it basically harnessed the magic of this tower, and you're in this alternate realm, that he has figured out a way to control by essentially stacking these magic stones in a certain way, like every couple of days, and it maintains the balance of the world, but the world is getting corrupt now because he's brought some level of corruption into it, so it's like things are kind of going weird, which is why the parakeets want to eat everybody, and the pelicans are eating human souls, and it's just all fucked up, and the grand uncle wants to give the world to the little boy hoping that he can fix it and make it better, but the little boy is interested in that shit because all he wants to do is find his, basically, he wanted to find his mother, but as the story goes on, he realizes that he needs to find mom too, you know what I mean, and like it's, the movie is very much about grief and moving on from one kind of angle, and as the story goes on, you realize that this isn't some kind of shade of his mom, this isn't a ghost of his mom, this is actually his mother from her youth, this tower is outside of time and space, when you go in it, it is a bridge to almost anywhere, so he's literally in the tower at the same time as his mother who went into the tower, and at one point they're looking through all these doors, and the mom says, well this is your door, you have to go out this way, I have to find a different door, you have to exit how you come back in, or you could get stuck somewhere else, because at one point they're hiding from the parakeets and they go through the door that leads back to his own dimension, and the mom says, don't let go of the handle, she's like if you let go of the handle of the door, you'll be stuck here and you won't be able to make it back and you'll never find mom too, so then they're standing there holding the door and all these parakeets, these giant parakeets are running at them with fucking pitch works and knives and shit, and as they go through the door, because they're not touching it, they get stuck in this dimension, but they instantly turn back into parakeets, these little cute parakeets, and Dad Bail sees them from a distance like standing in this doorway and he runs to them, but by the time he gets them, they've disappeared back into the doorway and the doorway is vanished, and all Dad Bail has is this cloud of fucking parakeets shitting on him, so there's a lot of bizarre, interesting shit going on, which culminates with the fact that when he does find mom too, mom too doesn't want to leave, and there's some kind of level of she says she hates him at one point, but I think what it is is that she thinks he hates her, and so he finally stops, he was calling her my name, she says she hates the boy, but he finds her, there's a really great scene in there where there's a delivery room in the castle, and I was wondering if the parakeets who are controlling the castle now thought that they could take the little boy, or take the child that mother too was going to give birth to, and use that child to replace the grand uncle, grand uncle by the way, who is voiced by Mark Hamill, which is fucking awesome, I don't know if maybe that was their plan, it's never really said, because that's the kind of movie it is, you're left to infer a lot, they don't explain it to you, and when the boy finds the mother, the mom too at one point, she doesn't want to leave with him, she wants to stay, and it's so neat, he gets attacked by paper birds that very nearly like choke him out, but his dead mother, his child dead mother, has pyrokinetic powers in this world, for some reason, never explained, so she's able to burn them all, and you know there's this whole storyline with them trying to figure out how to get mom too out of there, but at the same time, the parakeets don't want to let them do that, and they want to keep them imprisoned, and they don't want the little boy to get to the grand uncle because they don't want the grand uncle to possibly give his power to the little boy because they want the power, you know, and the culmination of the movie, there's this fantastic moment where essentially the little boy sits to the grand uncle, I don't want this world, I like my world, I don't want to, and he says something like, I'm not pure, he's like, I hit my head with the rock, he's like, I have my own malice, because if I try to do what you're doing, my own malice will infect this world just the same way as yours did, at which point, the parakeet king destroys the rocks and the world begins to fall apart, and that sequence by the way is so well done, as the whole world collapses, and the grand uncle says, grab mom too and get the fuck out of here, he's like, you've got to get out before this world collapses, and so he's finally able to kind of break her free, and mom too, and grand uncle, and the blue heron, who's begun to help them throughout, get back to the doors, and at this point, you know, the boy says to his child dead mother, why don't you come back with us, and the dead mother is like, I can't come back with you, he's like, I have to go back to where I'm from, or you'll never happen, she's like, don't you realize, she's like, I haven't had my life yet, and he's like, yeah, but you're going to die, and she's like, but that's what's supposed to happen, she's like, it's okay, she's like, you're with my sister, and the boy says, you know, I'm with, no, I'll be with my mom, and that's when he realizes he's made the transition where he's accepted mom too as his mother, and they, and so the mom too, and the boy, and the blue heron go through the gate, and they end up back in the world, and then one point, he got this little statue that looked like the old woman, and the old woman, the little statue pops into the old woman now, and you realize, I don't know the logic of it, I think it's that she, her younger version is, was also was in that alternate world with the dead mother, so I don't think the old woman and her younger version could occupy the same space at the same time, so the older version of her had to become a statue, like, and that's the thing is that none of these rules are spelled out, so you kind of have to like, all fly with it as it goes, and then of course they get to the end, and the little boy, speaks with the blue heron, and the little boy has brought one of these stones of power back with him, and the blue heron's like, ah, that's kind of dangerous that you have that, he's like, but you know, he doesn't have that much power, he's like, eventually it'll go away, he's like, do you remember where we just were, and he was like yeah, we were in this other dimension with my granicle, my grand, great uncle, whatever, and then, and the blue heron says, well don't worry, he's like, that'll fade in time, slower than for others, he's like, mom too, he's not gonna remember any of this, he's like, but you will, eventually it'll go away, he's like, and that's probably good, he's like, you shouldn't be walking around with this kind of knowledge, which point he swallows his day to veto head, turns back into blue heron, flies the fuck off, and the movie just ends, I mean, and the last thing is that he leaves with his, they cut forward, and he, they're moving back to Tokyo after the war, and it's his dad, his mom too, and his younger brother now, and the four of them move it back to the Tokyo and that's the movie ends, now I'm leaving a lot out, because there is just a ton of random weird shit, there is a lot of world building that happens in this, but it's all visual, like they don't spell things out to you, and I think that's what bothered my father-in-law, because he was kind of looking for like, logical explanations, and I remember, I was reading a review of the movie afterwards, because I was like, I'm kind of curious, like, you know, what's going on here, and the reviews said, no, there's a dream logic, the second he goes into the tower, you are in a kind of weird dream logic, and it all makes sense to itself, and they're right, you know, once Alice crosses into Wonderland, Wonderland's got some rules, but it's so well done, this is one of those movies, if you told me they were going to try and do a live action version, I would be very fascinated by how they were going to do it, because there's this effect at the end where the world is collapsing, and literally like the fabric of the world is kind of shaking around them as they're fleeing, yeah, all this just weird stuff that's going on, and the way that they take these things that are adorable, but then they make them horrible, so it's like the parakeets, when you first see them, you're like, oh, that's so cute, and the blue heron's like, no, they're not, he's like, they're terrible, they eat everything, he's like, you gotta stay away from them, and yes, they're kind of dopey and funny, by the way, one of the parakeets is voiced by Dan Stevens, which is another, you know, just, they're just such great voice acting in this. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like a stacked voice cast, that's for sure. Oh, it is very stacked, yeah, it's a very stacked voice act, and I think mom, too, is voiced by the girl from the boys, the girl who plays Kimiko, who I don't know the actresses they need. I don't watch it, so I wouldn't say it. Either way, yeah, so it's, yeah, I enjoyed the fuck out of it. Like, it was really good, I mean, it definitely hearkens back to Spirited Away, but there's something Spirited Away is sometimes feels like it's more of a kid's movie, right? Whereas this movie feels at times like it veers like it's two movies at once, like there is a very adult story in here mixed with a very child story, you know, because the boy himself, he's not a normal kid, like he's very mature and he's traumatized, he keeps dreaming about his mom on fire, like this is a movie about loss and grief and moving on and transition, you know, and I was trying to find out if there was like any, if there is any reference to like Miyazaki's own youth in this, like did he lose his mother? Like, because it feels, it feels very personal on one hand, but it is such a wild, weird movie, and yet at the same time, it allows for all this quiet, you know, sometimes when you watch, this is not an American thing, you know, sometimes when you're watching like, I'm trying to think of a movie that did this really well, you know, when you watch like any kind of foreign Japanese movie, there's always this period in the beginning of the movie where there's kind of like a lot of setup, where you get a sense of a character's life, a set of kind of a sense of their day, there might not be a lot of dialogue, it's just kind of, you know, they and they don't tell you, they just show you, right, and it can feel like there's a, an immense sense of quiet to the beginning of the movie, do you know what I mean? It's a few movies I've seen like this. Oh, man, try to think, you're in that movie about that guy who sneaks into that woman's house and then proceeds to live there behind the husband's back. Did you read that one? I think it's called, what was that one called? Who's in it? No, it's like a, it's a foreign Japanese movie. We're like, he, he's is a guy who breaks into people's houses and he lives there for a while, but then he like cleans up and he leaves to make sure that things are like better than when he left. Then at one point, he breaks into this movie is the house and he breaks into the house. See what he breaks into the house. There's like a, a, a woman who's in a loveless marriage who is just like on the verge of killing herself. And then when she discovers this guy, she's like mesmerized that he's there. They, they start having this kind of weird, like, fair, and he's, I know what you mean now. And he's living and he's kind of there behind the husband's back. There's a, and the trailer was a great, I've seen the movie, but in the trailer, they use this one scene where as the husband turns to the left, this guy reaches beyond him and starts eating his food. And it's just this like perfectly timed, like, you can't see me, therefore I'm not there, a fact. Anyway, movie, I've seen a bunch of movies that like that Japanese movies where they, they allow this immense amount of space for you just to watch a character do things and be there. And that's the whole beginning of this movie. Like nothing weird happens up front. The very beginning of the movie is that the boy remembers the fire and you see like five minutes of him running through Tokyo and Tokyo on fire. And then the next thing you see is all just, they're driving here. They go here. They meet the new mom. He goes to the new house. He meets some old ladies. He goes and he finds his room. Like it's just very sort of quiet. And then the weird ramps up. And then it's kind of like some more, the toe and his dog and innocence, where he's just kind of goes and gets the dog's ears out of the bowl. Yeah. Yeah. The first one has that too, where like she wakes up in her room and she kind of looks at the window. And like it's just these, and then she walks out of frame and you just see her, you know, it's all shadow and things. Yeah. I find that especially with Japanese animation, and maybe what it is, is that maybe it's a Japanese animation thing where a lot of American animation spares no time for those between scenes, those set up scenes, those kind of the kinds of scenes that you would film because they add to the greater story. But to draw, I think a lot of studios go, wow, you know, it takes too much time. We don't really need these scenes. We only want the most important scenes, right? Can you imagine a American animated thing, like the middle of Ghost in the Show where the plane is going by and she's just looking at things and nothing's happening? Yeah, that's the thing. Like, you know, Ghost in the show. I mean, Akira, imagine the opening of Akira. Done. If you were trying to cut out all these useless set of shots, well, you wouldn't have seen the fucking city at all. Right. Right. And Miyazaki does this really well in this movie. And then the second the weird starts to crank up, it just gets so gloriously weird. And if you can watch this and, you know, like, I think the thing is like, I was never going to see that. I wasn't going to see this movie anytime soon because we're kind of moving through Miyazaki movies slowly, right? Like, I really wanted to watch "Porka Russo." I love that movie. But my mother actually wanted to see it because she'd read that it won. I think it was either one in a war it was nominated. So she was curious. And like, I was like, shit, yeah, we'll watch a Miyazaki movie. That's cool. And yeah, it's just a, there is this very, there's a very adult story in there. I think if you watch it and you pay attention. And it can also be a kid's movie because I mean, listen, when when the heron suddenly turns into like a date of, you know, and he's like, Hey, I'm not going to fucking help you. It doesn't curse, but he probably should. I'm not going to fucking help you. You shot an arrow through my big fuck you, buddy. Right? Like, it's hilarious. But then at the same time, the heron regurgitates ahead. There is, and there's almost like this weird horror element to it too, because at one point, the heron, before the heron is told that he has to help the boy, he's like fucking with him. And he makes like a shade of his mother. But when the boy runs over to touch it, it literally melts. And the way they animate it is so disturbing. It literally all just melts like a wax candle you know, a puddle. And the heron's like, ah, you fucker. He's like, you, you touched it. Because you know, if you hadn't touched it, it would have lasted longer, you bitch. So yeah, I, I think it's so great. It was a great flick. You know, I was never one of those people who wanted to go on a mon about like the genius of Miyazaki, but like, there is a genius to be his hockey. I was going to say you really don't have to because numerous others have. I know, I know, but the thing is like, you know, when you when they have something like they were always a genius here, I was like, is he really? But you know what, like having recently seen a bunch of his movies, I'm like, yeah, he's, you know, yeah, he kind of is. I mean, he does really good stuff. Listen, I love Paco Rosso. I, I, Paco Rosso feels so different than any other Miyazaki film to me. Like, there's nothing the only fantastical element of that is a lot of stuff does not feel like the same thing. Yeah, yeah. Now this, I do feel like spirited away and how's moving castle and the boy in the hair and I feel like the three of those are very link in their magic. Spirited away and the boy in the hair and more so, right? But they are their own movies with their own stories. Like he's not retreading territory. You know, spirit away that little girl and her parents go into the other world and their parents get turned to pigs and then she very nearly gets turned to a pig herself. And then it's her trying to figure out a way to get the fuck out. Whereas this movie, this boy goes in knowing that he's going to some weird shit because he thinks that he's a looking for mom to and be wondering if he can find his dead mother. You know, and then it comes this whole thing where he realizes that he had a chance to spend time with his mom and kind of ends properly say goodbye and he is prepared to be with mom to. So like, it's just a, like I said, I'm missing a lot of the details. There are so many of you. I mean, like at one point he hates the, um, the pelicans, but then he meets this one pelican who's like dying and it's William Defoe. The pelican says that basically they were brought here by the grand uncle and they got stuck here and there was nothing to eat. So he told them to eat the dead souls rising from the earth or something like that. So that's why they eat the dead souls because there's nothing else to eat in this world for them. You know, things like that, like it's, yeah, yeah, this, it hints at a greater mythology. And what's fascinating is that, you know, this, this level of creativity imagination, if, if the US studio had this, they would have already been trying to make a series of movies based on this tower that can basically go anywhere. Marvel pretty much is. You know, this is their multiverse. This guy made a movie about a tower that exists in the middle of fucking anywhere and everywhere and said, no, no, no, you know what, we're just going to make the one movie. You know, like there are endless possibilities to this, but there's enough creativity. He's like, no, we're just going to tell them one movie. Like he sees it. He is there at the same time as his mom, but separated by like 30 years. You know what I mean? Um, it just shit like that is fascinating and it opens up a lot of questions in your mind. Um, so yeah, I loved it. I think that you, uh, I think you and your wife would enjoy this. Oh, it sounds great. Yeah, it really, it really was, it really was very good. And I didn't think I was going to enjoy it. I thought it was just like, I didn't think it was gonna be bad, but I thought I was going to watch it and be like, that's Miyazaki movie. But even in the world of Miyazaki movies, this one feels weird or still. You know, like he, he's dabbling in kind of even weirder territory. And it's, there's aspects of it that are cutesy because you're like, Oh, they're giant man-eating parakeets. It's kind of cute. But like when you think about kind of the bigger scale of it, like there is just, it's just such a high level of weird, you know, that this was live action. It would be like an A-24 movie or some shit like that. You know what I mean? It'd be like, that's what it sounds like. Yeah. Yeah, doesn't it? So yes, I think, I think this movie has enough weird for you. I think it has enough cute for your wife. That is the magic ratio, generally. It is, right? Like, like aspect aspects of this movie are very animal crossing, but then there's aspects of this movie that are very, I don't know, stalker. Well, you know, that's the magic word for me. Yeah, I mean, like, yeah, and I love that there's no explanations. Like, I think, I guess that bothers certain people, but I like that there's no explanations. Like you get, you get visually, you can look at it and try to work out what's going on, but they don't just fucking tell you. They never tell you why the blocks can build this environment. It's just this idea. My idea was that the step, the grand uncle, by trying to add formed the chaos of these magic rocks creates the realm, right? But no one ever says that really writes out, you know, like, he just says, well, I have to, you know, put these blocks up now and then a certain order is like, and it keeps the world here existing, you know. Yeah, so it's just, that's my review. Boy in a Heron, which everyone said was a good movie is in fact, surprise, a good fucking movie. That's good when that works out when it isn't just a bunch of, isn't it weird when it works out? Well, no, I mean, I'm in the same boat as you when I am really screaming about somebody, I think, okay, well, it can be that good, really. Can it really be that good? Well, it's, let's put it this way. It's not that, but there's more times than not that it isn't. So you begin to become, you know, and plus we do know what the world of marketing and promotion is. So you sit there and go, well, how much of this is honest and how much is this? You know what? Listen, maybe it feels like an honest movie. That sounds weird, but it feels like an honest movie. Well, I think that's what Miyazaki is known for is he makes very sincere films, but he doesn't have to make movies. He, at this point, make a ton. Oh, God, no. I mean, he's already retired five times. This is supposedly his last movie, but they keep putting quotes around that because, you know, he keeps saying that and then he's like, well, aboard. I had one more thought. So, aboard. I was watching a slug climb over a toad storm. I thought, wait I had an idea. I'll make a movie now. I mean, listen, listen, just just the scene where the Heron, like, regurgitates the head is just so weird. And I love that, like, so many of the characters have this kind of caricature look. Like the old women all look like caricatures of old women. So, yeah, anyway, yeah, it was, it was fun. It was fun. At some point, after what have my kids watched, like Princess Monoki and things like that, which are his most. That's one of my favorite ones. You know, it's the first one I saw. You might be my favorite one. I've seen him his so far. I haven't seen him all, but they remind, but you know what? I kind of want me to poke, poke or also is very good, but Parker also is. Hey, you know what? I guess I would put those out there. They're different types of movies. That's, they're very different. Yes. But Parker also is more of a I can watch at any time. Monoki, though, when I watched it, I really kind of watch it. Oh, yeah, because Monoki is a very serious movie. It's a very dense and serious film where it's Parker also is like, Oh, hey, we're going to have a, we're going to have a race in the sky. Oh, pirates. We'll fucking kill these pirates. Oh, yeah. Yes, exactly. And that's the thing is, that is a movie that, you know, yeah, he's cursed. He's been cursed by a witch to look like a pig. And that's it. That's where the magic is. Yeah. That's as much strangeness as you get. Everything else is straightforward. It's like, is airplane racing and air pirates and fucking machine guns in the sky and like, yeah. Yep. You know, and that's, that's a very different movie than the boy in the hair. Which is good. Yeah. So, yes, I definitely think you, you should see it. I think that you, I think this is one of those as weird enough that you would watch it. And you, well, it sounds like a David Lynch anime. It is. I'm still thinking about it. Cause like the thing is because he doesn't spell it out for you. You're still, you're afterwards, for me, I'm still sitting here going, well, what did that mean? Like, you know, was it this? Was it that? Is it meant to be this? Like, what would happen if the boy had taken over the realm? Like he'd never have gone back. Like, I have all these questions. You know, and at one point, they say, you know, um, uh, the, the step up, the, the grand uncle, he disappeared. He knew too much about the world or some shit like that. You know, like, you know, there's this, there's this, there's various like ideas being thrown around, but there's subtle idea that you don't catch right away. You have to pay attention. And then when you pay attention, you're like, that's some serious shit. Okay. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I love it. I loved it. It was great. I love that all me and Zaki movies are animated the same way too. Like, it's not like, you know, he doesn't wildly changes art style. Like, I think it's getting more grotesque, I think in the fantasy movies, more fantastical ones, like outside of Porco Rosso's pig face, there aren't any old women that have giant oversized heads. Sure. You know what I mean. So, yeah, it's, uh, but I do love that in the same vein as his other films, the boy in the hair and it doesn't end with this perfect picture. It's not like he gets his dead mom back. You know, like, he accepts that she's gone. He gets to see her young and say goodbye to her. He doesn't get her back. He, he has to move on. And then he ends up right where he started to be in the movie. He has his dad, who cares for him, who wants to take revenge on his behalf. And he has this new mother who was his aunt. Right. He has a family and he has, and he has to come to terms. You know, and like other movies, like, you know, it doesn't end out exactly the way you think it's going to end. You know, there's always a level of loss in his, in his victories, his endings. And I like that. He doesn't, there's no perfect picture at the end. There's, for what is a fantastical movie, there was a strange air of the reality that things don't always work out the way you want them to. You know, so from a movie that deals with magic and, and regurgitating head herons and magical realms at the end of the movie, his mom is still dead. His father has still remarried. He's going to have a brother soon, a step, a half brother. You know, like, it, you know, it wasn't a magic bullet that changed everything. It changed how he felt about it. But that's it. I like that. That's, that's a very not American cinematic experience. Or at least that's my, it's sad. Look, it is definitely not American because things are being explained. I often feel like that's to go back to Lynch. Why Lynch stands out in an American filmmaking is because he doesn't make American films. He doesn't care about explaining. He makes European type of things can be left to you to fill in. Yeah, and what's fascinating is it like the very thing you were talking about with the quad, that's what people blame Lynch say he goes overboard, where you just watch somebody doing nothing, but the famous sweeping the floor thing in the Twin Peaks season three. But there is a context to that. But there's something, there's something going on. Yeah. But when you read, the thing is, I've talked to this before, when you read, right, so much of what you read is you putting of yourself into the book, right? So like, I think we talked about this last in the red couch is like, if I say, Oh, you know, Bob sits on a red couch, your red couch and my red couch have nothing to do with each other. That's right. Oh, they're both things that people sit on, but like, is your chances that the two of us visualize the same couch exist next to zero? But what makes it perfect, actually, what's fascinating is when you start to see the same things that other people say. And that's when you know that you're, you are closely linked to someone's psyche. Sure. It's like, was it, there was a game, a video game where you and I came out and we both dressed up exactly the same. Oh, in the ascent, we picked the same costume. Yeah, we had no idea what the other person was doing. We walked out, we looked at each other except for the colors, the colors were different. In other words, we were wearing exactly the same face. But the thing is, like, there's a linked level of our psyche, right? But outside of that, yes, you bring in yourself and that's what makes reading such a fascinating experience because the author comes to you and gives you like, Hey, this is the skeleton of the visual, fill it. And then you fill it with your vision. Well, to some degree, that's what Miyazaki is using. He's saying, Hey, I'm showing you these visuals, but I'm not going to tell you everything because I want you to inject some of yourself into this. I want you to make a leap. I want you to decide what it is. And that's the same with, you know, what's his name? You're director, which is two peaks. Oh, Lynch. Lynch. Sorry. Yeah, I get terrible with names. Okay. Lynch. Lynch is the same thing where he doesn't want to, he doesn't want to spell it out to you. He wants you to have to engage and give something of yourself. You don't get the story unless you're willing to give something up to inject some portion of yourself in there to make a leap flex your imagination. You know, there's too many movies that we watch where it's like music for people who are imaginatively handicapped, where they sit there and go, just chew my food for me. Right? It's like, no, no, no, no, no. You don't get to daydream through this movie and look at your phone and check the stocks. You have to be engaged. You get to actually look what's going on, because there's visuals in this movie that are going to be explained, you know? And I like that. I like, and it's fucking ridiculous that I have to watch a Japanese quote unquote children's movie to get that level of engagement, you know, where it's like otherwise I'm watching a lot of these American blockbusters. And they're like, that's the hero. He's going to kill the bad guy. He gets the girl in the sunset. Now movie over. You're sitting there going, did I have a stroke Michael bad happened here? Michael, I was actually thinking of Michael, but there you go. How could you not be? But it's like, yeah, you know, you want you want more? You want more than just that? You want to be the only thing Michael Bay leaves to your imagination is what would a film without explosions and overhead helicopter shots look like? And let's be clear about Michael Bay. I think Michael Bay is writing shit. But I will give the man credit for his Bay Ham. Like, he knows how to fucking the rock chaos action. Yeah. And here's the thing. I would, I would have what I would love to do is I would love to take an excellent script, a really intelligent over the top level script. And then let's see what Michael Bay does with it. Michael Bay's Fury Road. Yes, I mean, no, no, no, because now Fury Road has too much too. There's too much open territory there for him. I didn't, you know what, give me a movie, give me a movie that is a very like amazing script. And then let's see what Michael Bay can do with it. But like, but it can't be said where he's got too much room. It needs to be confidential. Oh, that would be funny. I was thinking like sneakers or something like that. Oh, no, he'd never take that. There's nothing. He has guns. I think you have to be able to give him something shooting. I mean, it's just going to be, I don't think he even bothered. No, there's no, there's no car crash. Actually, no, each hack would end with the other side of the hack being exploding. You know what? Actually, I want to see I want to see blow up every phone in the office. I want Michael Bay to do Demolition Man. Come on. That might be interesting to watch. Sure. Yeah. But either way, so the thing is like, I know I, I slag on Michael Bay, but I, I slag on him because I don't like his writing. I don't like how dumb down his movies are. But sin, visually, the man has his own style and he knows how to, how to direct an action sequence. Well, he's a Zack Snyder. Yes. Oh, yeah. That's what he is. Um, I mean, yeah, Zack Snyder, when he writes his own movies, I don't like them. But his visual direction is fantastic. Visually can help make things look exciting. But again, that goes back to the whole, I don't really need to know what's going on. Things are going boom. Look at this boom fireworks fireworks. Like that's the reaction you have to it. Whereas to have to watch a movie where you're sitting and going, Oh, yeah. What the hell is going on? Oh shit, they're not going to tell me what's going on. I got to figure out what's going on. How's going on here? You know, there's like people online that are like, I only said to be like, here, we'll explain to you the ending of the boy and the heron. I'm like, why do you need some assets online to explain it to you? You watched the movie. What the fuck do you think happened? Right. He meant, you know, it's, that's that it's up to you. You're supposed to be able to, there are movies that are made for you to not have to think. That's fine. That's the Michael Salaris. You know what? I know a lot of people who hate Salaris either version. You know, and I remember I went to see, I mean, I've told the story before, I went to see the, the Clooney Salaris with the front of ours. And when we got into the movie, my, my friend was like, what the fuck happened? He was a waste of time. And I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? That movie was like heart achingly beautiful. You know, like I, I love, I love the, the ending of the Clooney Salaris, the fact that like, you know, he realizes he's in some kind of simulation or fantasy. And then the woman looks and it goes, we don't have to think like that anymore. And you're like, yeah, they've totally broken the rules. Like, it's not, this isn't what you consider reality anymore, guys. But I think that is such a difficult concept, you know, that for someone, for some people to wrap their heads around the idea that, you know, you can, you can change all the rules. You know, so anyway, yes, I really enjoyed the boy and the heron. And I give it my stamp of approval. And yeah, I would look forward to the day that you and your wife see it and what your opinion of it is. I'm sure I'm going to enjoy it. But just from the described that I like Miyazaki films generally, some I like, but I don't ever dislike any. So I'm sure I will like it on some scale from five to 10. I want to see if I can find the footage of the heron regurgitating the head. Oh, I already saw it. Oh, you already saw it. Okay, good. Yeah, it's creepy. No, it's fantastic. It's great. Like, it's just, it's just things like that. That's never going to happen. Miyazaki, Miyazaki does a lot of really visually, I don't want to say correctly wrong word. Doesn't it look like a day to veto head? It does. No, it definitely does. Like, like, I know that they got the guy that got to do it. He's like, this kind of really handsome, younger guy, but it's like, he's doing his kind of like, DeVito bat and voice. Yeah, no, he he does. He has a lot of disturbing visuals that are just to the line before they become horror. Yeah, off putting. He walks the line, especially like a house moving castle does that. Yes, a lot of this stuff does where there's these stuff that comes right up to the line where you're like, Oh, no, and then it stops. But there's still something very off about it. Whereas you know what? I would draw a line. This is going to be weird, but I would draw a line from Miyazaki and Clive Barker. Oh, yeah. Clive Barker goes past the line. Miyazaki stops. Yes, but they both have this kind of like, especially if like a book like a magic. Oh, okay. All right. Yeah. Well, there's the one which book is it? Well, I think it's we've world where there's the the world. Oh, yeah, the world. There's the two sisters and one of them's big and huge and she's like slimy and then something comes out of her vagina. Now Miyazaki would have stopped at the vagina park. He would have had the large, gross, slimy woman who would have become way too close to a young man and like the game to suffocate him with her presence, but would not have had a monster emerge from her vaginal cavity. That's where Barker goes. He goes like, no, no, we are going and in that respect, it's a weird thing because you can draw a line from Miyazaki. Oh, no. That's what I'm saying is that this marker has a restraint. But Barker's Miyazaki Miyazaki has a restraint where Barker doesn't want to be restrained. But then Barker did kids books after that? Well, but this is this is our point. This is not like these two people like Barker Miyazaki could collaborate. I can see the movie. Oh, man, wouldn't that be something didn't hold on? It would be something. Who did? Oh, no, was it the guy from Death? No, he didn't want to work with Miyazaki. There's somebody weird who wanted to work with Miyazaki, but I can't remember who it was. Because I know that the guy from Death's Stranding wanted to work who didn't want to work. Oh, Hideo Kojima. Yeah, he wants to work with. Well, that was working with Geremo del Toro. Yeah, exactly. Well, del Toro is in Death's Stranding too. I know he is. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So like those two, those two. No, no, I'm sorry. He's in Death's Stranding one. George Miller's in Death's Stranding too. Yeah, he is. Yeah. But like those two like George Miller is another one, right? So George Miller, Fury Road, but George Miller, Babe. And Babe two pig in the city. Kojima said he wanted Miller to do a Metal Gear movie. I've watched the shit out of that. I would totally watch the shit out of that. Dude, if you did the Metal Gear movie, I'd watch the shit out of that. No, I would if me exactly did an animated version of Weave World, I'd watch it. Oh, like, oh, because there's a lot of, well, what? And all you have to do is stand off a couple of images because you don't lose the story. He did a magic. That would blow my fucking doors off. Yeah, but see, that's certain Parker stories. I don't know how much you can sand off. We've rolled. No, no, no. To sand some of the stuff. I'm telling you right now, I think you can sand the sex mostly. Well, see, mostly, you can see a lot, but then with Parker, you can have, you can have the genderless Pio Pah. I think that me as I can get away with that. You just can't have the fact that Pio Pah sells yourself as a prostitute to like, you know, pay the bills. Well, regardless, I could see the two of them. I love, I love that we've somehow taken Miyazaki and we've crossed the realm of art. But he's close. I was going to say, it's not that far. It's not like it's a huge river to cross. It's more like a little stream in the woods. Yeah, it's like, and I'm one side is Miyazaki and standing in the way is where those state crossings where all of a sudden there's a size as you crossed into Pennsylvania and you're like, oh shit, it looks the same, but suddenly we're in Pennsylvania. Okay. You can convey similar concepts in different ways. And they're still related, even if one looks completely different than the other. Yeah, I mean, listen, on to some degree, a movie like the cell and a movie like the boy in the hair. And they've got similarities. Sure. You know, because like, did, did Jennifer Lopez really go into that guy's mind? Hard to say. Right. Did, did the boy actually go to a magic dimension and see his dead mother from 40 years ago when she was a child, or 30 years ago, whatever. What else? There's 30, only Miyazaki. Oh, he was sure. Yeah, I know. I know. I don't know. I don't want to know actually, because the thing is, he didn't put it in the movie. Therefore, it's not the meant to be there. Right. It's not important. It's important to decide is left to you decide exactly. And that's what I want. You know, I want. I'm still at listen, I'm still at that age where I want to have to flex my brain. My grandmother, before she passed away, we used to come over to Sierra and she'd be watching like children's cartoons. And I was always like, why are you watching this? And then I realized this is because, you know, she was kind of at this point, she was she was beginning to lose her mind. She had, she knows that she had a massive sense of dementia, but she had a healthy sense of dementia. This, these shows were easy for her. They spelled it out for her. She needed that at that point. You know what I mean? I'm like, I look at that and I remember it and I go, yeah, I'm not there yet. I want to be challenged. I want to flex my brain as long as I can. You know what? It's funny. I haven't seen that movie tenant yet. And I just keep getting told that a lot of people like didn't like didn't like that movie tenant, the last just for Nolan movie. And there's a part of me that's like, it's not that I have been avoiding it. I just need to find, maybe to carve out hours of my schedule to watch this fucking movie. But there's a part of me that sits there and says, you know what? Maybe the problem is that no one just decided not to explain shit. So fuck it. You know what? I'm not going to tell you what's going on. Figure it out. We're like, but, but time travel, what's going on? You know, like people are always trying to find like the intricate map of like the here now, then and before, and like maybe it doesn't matter. I don't know. I haven't seen it yet. So maybe it is shit for all I know. So oddly, what's his name? Fucking, I keep thinking of his Cedric degree. Fucking hell. Terrible with getting so awful. I don't know who you're talking about now. The guy from the Lighthouse who played Batman. Oh, Pattinson. Yeah, Robert Pattinson played Cedric Diggory in the Harry Potter movies is the first thing I saw. Oh, I thought you were saying. Robert Pattinson played Cedric Diggory in the Harry Potter movies. And I always remember him in that that in Twilight. So whenever I think of him, the first thing that comes to my mind is either Twilight or Cedric Diggory. Right. And my wife knows that. So when I turn I go, Hey, look at Cedric Diggory. She's like, it is Cedric Diggory, right? But this, you know how you're talking about this is a study in like a constant interview of longevity and timeline. Yes, this is what happens as you get older. For me, I'm starting to lose names. I used to have an encyclopedia, like a recollection of names. And I'm at that point now where like, I see the faces. I know who they are. I can tell you all the movies they were in. I can't remember their fucking name happens all the time lately. And I want to blame my sleep medication because they ever since they put me on melatonin. And they're like, this is perfectly safe. I'm like, you know what? I understand you're telling me that it's perfectly safe. But since I got on this stuff, I just can't fucking remember names like I used to. And I, I bitch about that to like, it's people. And like my wife is like, you're just getting older. That's all. And I'm like, is it? I was like, but you know what? I guess this is the thing. Sleep well at night. Remember the names of actors? Maybe it's worth the trade. Oh, I it's definitely worth the trade. You can look up actors names. That's what you have a Wikipedia for. Can't look up. I love that. That's a great line right there. You can't look up a good night's sleep. I can't remember that. Every time I forget a fucking name, I'm going to be like, that's okay. You can't look up a good night's sleep. Come on. Thank you. Thank you. My sage. Sure guided me. Oh man. Jesus, what are we talking about? We're talking about Miyazaki and then we ended up with Barker and then we ended up with the horror and then we ended up getting names. Yeah. So we're, I think you know where we are now? We're at your review. Oh boy. Do I have one? The opposite of your type of film? Oh, no. Is it because it's a horror movie that's really good or is because of bad movie? No, no, it's a really, really great movie that I never even heard of in the end of the year. All right. It is cop from 19. What is this 88 starring James Woods? Wait a minute. Hold on one second. Have you seen this? Maybe you've seen it. I think I have. Hold on. Let me read the description. He's cop. The title kind of says it. Okay, I have seen this, but I don't remember. Okay. I never even heard of this. The only reason I knew about it. Yeah. Is that Criterion Channel. Oh, Criterion Channel. My true Lord and Savior. Criterion Channel had another collection called Neo Noir. Yeah. And I was kind of going through it. About half of them I'd seen. I saw this one and said, just cop. And the description was interesting because you know, James Woods may be a scumbag as a human being, but I tend to like him in the movie. Oh, fuck it. Listen, I watched so many James Woods movies. That's what I'm saying. When I was good. I hate to like, you know, I don't agree with his politics now, but when I was a kid, James Woods was one of those like crazy badasses from movies. He's one of those badasses I liked from the 80s before everybody had to get superjacked. Right. You had these guys that were just fucking bad ass. They had the energy of a badass human being and he was one of them. Right. So on this list from Criterion was like Bad Lieutenant. You know, I mean, a lot of the usual suspects stuff, but I saw not usual suspects ironically. And that, but I saw a cop and I went, okay, like James Woods at this time period. And it described this is the sleazy kind of like city like homicide thing. I'm like, all right, I'm going to watch this because it's just interesting. Hold on. Hold on. One second really quickly. I just have to know. Yeah. Is the serial killer in this movie called Birdman? No, he's not. Okay. Just making sure that God is a male prostitute in the OK, OK, because because he's he's one of the actors from Greece. No, no, no, no, he's barely really in it. He's a very, very minor character. Just checking. I was very curious. That's all. But what I didn't know at first, and then once I got to the end and I saw the name, this is by the same author who did LA Confidential and that makes complete sense because this feels like a trial run at making LA Confidential. Oh, man, that makes me now want to see it. Oh, you, you, I guess, like, I'm pretty sure I saw this at some point, but so long ago, I was probably a teeny. No, you should watch it again because it's fascinating. It's, in fact, the James Woods character feels like almost a rough draft of the Russell Crow character. There are so many direct similarities, even in the fact that they both hate people who hurt women that I went. Yeah. And I think this book did. Wait, where's the book? The book is called Blood on the Moon. It's from 1984. Let me look up LA Confidential. What was the book that was based on? And he just write that movie. Was that based on a book? I know Elroy was involved. Is it based based on LA Confidential? Oh, wow. The Blood on the Moon book was rejected 17 times by publishers due to its violent content. I have a book. I have a book I need to read 84 predates. It's 84 LA Confidential was written in 90. So it predates both in book and film. So that makes complete sense. So movie starts off. And basically, we have, and it's a beautiful kind of intro to a character that tells you a lot of things that you need to know right away without having to waste a lot of exposition. What? And it gave you an idea of why this movie, maybe that was bigger. The studio that was making it, they were having major financial issues and they couldn't advertise or publicize the film. This movie, it's regarded moderately well in terms of critical reviews were generally okay, but not great. I'm not surprised it didn't do better. It's a very, it's a very kind of Dower film. It's not depressing. I wouldn't go that far, but it definitely is not a happy film. It just, there's just a lot of psychic and violent damage to a lot of people in it. And it doesn't leave you really like, yay, the cops won, nor does it leave you and oh, everybody's dead. It's not that it's in the middle. It's in this weird vague area where you just kind of feel like after it, like it feels very realistic in a lot of ways to the malaise that we currently exist in. Maybe that's why it works so well for me watching it now. So movie starts out and James Woods is playing a sergeant named Lloyd Hopkins and our intro scene him is great. I didn't clip it, but there's a younger cop and he's kind of running through a bunch of different cases with him and he's going through all this different stuff with him and you immediately understand, okay, he has live experience. He's, he obviously is smart. He knows, you know, he's got intuition. Like it's a very, very nice rapid fire wave, introing him and establishing his competency. So it's a great intro scene for the character because you've got everything you need to know about him in about four minutes and you're like, okay, he's, he's been around for a while. He knows what he's talking about. He understands police work and like he's, because he's just handing this, this, this kid, these different things saying do this, do this, do this, and very, very great set up for a character. Like one of the best kind of things where you don't have to have people saying, Oh, Hopkins? Oh, you know what he did? He busted up. No, no, that shit. They just do away with it immediately. So you know where he is. And then the movie never really goes back to there's, there's a couple of mentions in a couple of clips where somebody says, Oh, we know you're a good cop, but they don't dwell on it. They don't have to establish anything, you know, because even in LA confidential, they go into that whole thing about what the Pierce, what's his name? Pierce Christ spooking for gang names. What's the girl? No, no, the other one, Pierce, Guy Pierce. Yeah, Guy Pierce, because there's parts where they're talking about, Oh, you know, he was this, isn't his dad was this, and there's all this stuff, even in there, they're kind of explaining why you should be impressed with him. And in a movie like this, they, it's all done in the beginning and they're like, now we're moving on. So he gets a call, call comes in and it's a somebody who was about to break into an apartment, but saw something and said, yeah, and I love this because it's going over the credits where you're hearing this phone call from this guy. And he's like, you know, I was going to go in there and rob the place. But what I looked in and saw how fucked up it was, I was like, Oh, there's a murder here. I'm just going to call the cops. He's just admitting that he was going to break in because what's going to, what they're going to find is so much worse that they won't care, which is all I just want you to know I was going to commit a crime. But I think that committed that he literally says I was getting ready to rob the place. But then when I saw it was in there, I was like, Nope, I'm just going to call this in because it's horrible. And it's, it's a it's great. He's like bitching to himself as he's on hold because he's trying to get through to 911. He's like, man, why am I bothering with this shit? I should just give up. And then he finally tells him the 80s. I know it's great. And so James Woods takes the call, shows up and finds a woman who's been hung upside down. And basically looks like she's been cut from crotch to necker. So I mean, it looked well on it, but there's blood everywhere. She's hanging from the ceiling upside down. And so he starts looking around just for basic clues and he calls it in says you got to get here is woman murdered. And he's looking around and he sees that she has this little section of a like a mini bookshelf and there's a bunch of books and one of them has been taken out and has prints on it. And so he knows that the murderer moved the book because it's in the woman's blood. So you know, he basically he sees that it's a feminist, like a feminist book, because that's the description of it. Like a feminist feminist manifesto thing. So that's kind of his first clue is like, okay, well, I'm, you know, maybe I need to look into what this is like, what is this book about? You know, where's this book sold, that type of thing. So right from there, we see later that evening. So he's now got that case. So that is the starting point of the movie that he has this case of this one woman's murder or what he what everybody thinks is one woman's murder. And so that night he goes home and he's got a wife and a little girl and a little girl is waiting up for him. And she says, tell me a bedtime story. And he's like, okay, I'll tell you one. And I'll tell you a short one. And he got to go to bed. And he starts telling her this gruesome way over detailed type of murder case or whatever drug case things that you would never tell an eight year old. And he's just casually telling her. And yeah, this is not unusual because she's like, ah, she's laughing at it. But it's a horrible thing. He's telling her like, it's a very adult story. And so the wife comes in and she says, all right, enough of that, go to bed. And then they go in the other room and the wife starts to rip into him. So he's so he's married. Briefly, that will end very shortly. So it goes into the room and we immediately get I mean, this is this is what you're talking about with the James Woods thing. I can this is what immediate this is maybe 10 minutes in. And as soon as this whole thing happens, I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm sticking with this the whole way through it because I can see what kind of dialogue and scenes we're getting out of James Woods. So here is the wife chastising him for what he's telling her in his justification for why he would tell his very young daughter the types of stories he tells her. She's really something that little penguin. Do you have any idea what you're doing to that child? Here we go again. Daddy's going to catch hell. Daddy, you call spilling out all that broken violence being a father? Do you, Lloyd? Dan, what do you want me to do? Huh? Huh? Well, I'm going to tell her about the three bears. Is that it? She's just a little girl. An eight year old little girl. Can't you get that through your head? Hey, let me tell you something you should get through your head. They're all little girls, Jan. Every one of them. Every one of those pathetic souls who eventually does herself in is a little girl. Every neurotic lies on a couch and pays some asshole to make good money to listen to her bullshit. It's a little girl. Every hook or out hustling her ass for a pimp who winds up with a psychic, a habit or wasted by some psychopath is a little girl. All these little girls have one thing in common. You know what that is? Disillusionment. And it always comes from the same thing. Expectations. The greatest woman killer of all time. A terminal disease that starts way back when they're all just little girls. When they're being fed all the bullshit about being entitled to happiness like it's a birthright. That's what you don't understand. When to stop perpetrating the myths that ruin their lives innocence kills, Jan. Believe me. It kills. I see it every fucking day of my life. Lloyd, I think you're a very sick man. He sneaks real health. Rice is at the best you can come up with. Can't you see that she's got to know before it's too late? You know what, Lloyd? What does she have to know? What chances she got. Mother still believes in white knights and happy endings. I think I'm going to go check on Penny. And then I think I'd like to sleep alone. What else is now? It's right there like yeah okay I'm watching this because that whole speech is that intense yeah it's I mean it immediately tells you again the movie is very good about in very quick fashion getting you into this guy's mind you know and he is exactly the type of he's a complex character because the movie he and the movie and the narrative are so good at you get this thing where you're like okay he's actually a nicer person I thought and then they immediately tear it down like he's every good thing he does is got the shadow side where he does something scummy and terrible well he's well okay I haven't seen the horrible yet but like logic kind of makes sense to me so far no no it does but it tells you that he sees the world a certain way right that's the idea is that that there's no point in having any illusion about anything no matter how young a child is now you can agree or disagree with that it does that's not even the point it just puts you into his mindset right yeah you understand understand his logic yes right so then he calls up his his buddy who is a higher up in the forest I don't know what maybe he's a lieutenant I don't know how the rankings work I know he's not the captain the captain's a different guy but this guy is higher up than him but not a captain he's in between and is that Charles Dunning Charles Dunning oh yeah he's great this because he is the every bit of the I am so sick of being a cop type of police officer so he calls him up and he's like let's go on a stakeout I got to lead on this guy and I think I you know let's go sit and wait for him to get there and let's see if we can catch him he's like all right fine so sitting there and and James Woods is all like yeah this is great man it's like good old days we're just going to stick out and Charles Dunning's like yeah okay but Charles Dunning is older and he's overweight so he's not as thrilled about it and so they they go up and they find these people that they think of the suspects and they they get the guy goes after Durning so James Woods shoots him like 40 times and Durning's like well I guess I'm getting old if a guy can get a jump on me he's like yeah well his girlfriend's pretty sweet so why don't you stay here and take care of the paperwork and I'm going to take this lady home which means he's going to go fucker which is exactly what happens so he leaves Durning with the body of this guy they just shot and they call it in and then he leaves he goes and he has sex with this woman so then we see him and he's researching this thing and he's looking at different um different evidence and he finds that there were classified ads that were with the with the apartment number that the woman was found at that were like you know classified sex ads and he's hanging out because he goes this is for the this is for the serial kill the woman the woman who was killed yeah the woman who was in the apartment yeah so he's tracking that down he goes to the place where the ads were placed and the guy says well um yeah I remember her she came in with a really tall good-looking blonde he's like oh okay and he's and so he hangs around and sure enough a tall good-looking blonde comes to check I guess like a PO box or something that's associated with that ad and so he grabs her and he says hey um who are you and why were you placing this ad and she explains and this reminds this is when I started getting real heavy LA confidential kind of deja vu stuff and she's she's a what she's an actress who's passed her prime and so what she does now is she deals drugs in a minor way and she sets up swingers parties in empty like apartment buildings and houses because she knows a realtor so basically she gives them a cut and she hosts these parties while the apartments or whatever are empty and the woman who was killed was writing a book and wanted to know about these parties and kind of made an agreement with her that she wanted to show up to see one and kind of write a thing on it and and Hopkins says oh do you have like a an index of these people because one of these people might be a kid might be the killer and she's like yeah I have a role index of it you know you can you can combine you can get it he's like all right I'll come by and I'll get it so he has to he has to come by you know what I mean or leave through it and he goes back and he finds that he was sent a letter by the killer that was written in blood and they figure out that it's probably his blood and it's a poem and the poem has a phrase in it that Hopkins thinks means that he has killed other women yeah you said the poem and the first thing that popped into my mind was hickory dickory duck yeah exactly yeah yeah I injured I's Clay would have been a wonderful addition to this poem so he basically goes he starts forming this theory that well based on the poem saying because the poem has a phrase about you know this woman was different from all the others or something like that and so he thinks well that could mean because it was sent to the police and because he included that phrasing he starts to think oh this is somebody who wants to get caught this is like the the classic serial killer idea that as they escalate they start doing things to try to get caught because they actually want to be stopped so he starts forming this theory and he goes to his buddy from the the stake out who's the higher up uh Dutch and he's he's trying to convince him on his idea that there's a serial killer because he wants the older guy the guy who's higher up to help him get files because the higher up you are in rank in theory it's easier for you to get files and this is him going through his theory with him and this guy going oh man you'd better be careful oh hey Dutch yeah i was just looking for you man I'm gonna go squeeze down kid I'm deep Dutch I have a real strong feeling we got ourselves a serial on this knee mark anything behind that feeling the killer male knee mark home yesterday you know that some of the lines of that poem could be interpreted that he's killed before funny you should write to a woman he's already killed that's another thing you know that subconsciously serial killers want to get caught i think he mailed the poem to knee mark but he wrote it to us you know what i mean Dutch right from that you got anything else nothing much really i mean there's a partial prince from that book the knee mark apartment that i found but the computer couldn't match them and that's not unusual because the guy's probably never been fingerprinted before so what do you want from me Dutch you know how long it would take me to get the case files on 31 unsulf female homicides it'd take two fucking weeks and i'd have to go through an inquisition to do it you on the other hand could get them tomorrow morning and nobody would ask a goddamn thing or what i tell them if they did i come up with a common denominator or an mo or something anything to get gaffney in that fucking department behind this thing gaffney alloyed this is your Dutch uncle again and i'm telling you stay away from that born again with feelings about serial killers we all know that stuff panics the public and embarrasses the department he's not going to shift away how long is it going to take to get these files 31 31 and be on your desk in the morning and don't forget tomorrow night he's still giving a party for us i'll see you tomorrow she's counting on you and Jen being there yeah yeah yeah so Hopkins leaves and the other thing and this is a guy he said he said don't treat me like a Dutch uncle no no he's saying this is your Dutch uncle his name's Dutch and since he's kind of he cares of James where there's a moment there i thought that was the turn of phrase i did not know no no no basically the idea is he's the mentor towards it he favors him and everybody knows that he kind of keeps it you know shields him from things that's why he's like this is your Dutch uncle telling you be careful that's where he's warning him god again you get some LA confidential lies with the whole idea of don't embarrass the department don't do stuff stuff bring enough stuff that will embarrass so again there's all this mirroring but this is a much slimmer grimer like grittier version of it it doesn't have all the polish that LA confidential has and i think that's why this movie isn't seen the same way but it is essentially a very very tight companion piece both because of the source but also in the way the whole story unfolds so you hear that bit at the emery says oh there's a party tomorrow night you're supposed to be there with your wife happens goes home finds that his wife has taken the kid and left because she's afraid of what he's gonna like put into her head and so basically he's now on his own and he so happens to call up the woman he was talking to her and says hey can i come over and leave through that rilla decks now and she's like sure stop on over and goes over and they have sex and while they're having sex you see in the background you see something you can't really tell what it is but you see like a door kind of moving and so you know somebody's there and this again you'll find out later if you remember an LA confidential day to veto is taking pictures of guy pierce having sex with kin messenger and in this movie sure enough photos of him having sex with this woman later factor in so it's like there's lots of doubling of things in here but right now you don't know what it is you just see the door moving and you're supposed to figure out that somebody's clearly in there and who it is you don't you don't see anything you just see the door move and the door still this is not poltergeist doors aren't just moving by themselves so he then meets the next day what is this a Miyazaki film right no there's not this tells you everything you need to know but not in a michael bayway there's no explosions i don't think no no explosions just a lot of gunshots so the next day he's tracking down different leads and he's talking to a he gets the files first i'm sorry so he gets the 31 files that he mentions and he and this is another scene where they're showing how he's approaching everything and so he lays out all these women who've been murdered since the like mid-late 70s and he starts going through them and he's he's only focusing on those that are physically and age similar to the woman who was killed in the beginning which is generally what serial killers do they stick with the same types so like anybody who's black turns over to old turns over like he's it's almost like a thing where he's just a lip plastic elimination and he knocks it down to i want to say he's looking he's looking he's looking for types yeah commonality yes exactly and so he gets it down and he's and he has a list i think it's 15 or 16 women so now he starts looking at when those women uh many of them who have been who suicided themselves which he'll say later is almost that women almost never kill themselves with guns which i assume is true but i don't know apparently that's he says any good cop you'll hear it he'll says any cop worth anything knows women almost never kill themselves with guns and so he goes and he finds a cop a beak cop who works in the neighborhood who found one of the bodies and he's questioning this guy and you know didn't you find it kind of odd that you know this is this and you immediately you get this idea that he he thinks everyone that is not relevant to what he wants is completely disposable as he's talking to this guy the guy will give the answer and then if he keeps going on who would just cuts him off and it's just like moves on to the next question and then immediately once he's got all the information just literally gets up and walks out on him so this is the idea that that he is you know he is a good cop and far as being a detective but he is a shit human being but he's Russell Crowe from LA Confidential he's a heat-seeking missile worse i mean but even more like you know the part where Russell i don't know i guess he is now you're right he is a very Russell Crowe character because he does treat women very well when he wants to whereas Russell Crowe never feels like he Russell Crowe's character always seems to have a reverence for women the Hopkins character only seems to have reverence for what he considers to be innocent women and there's almost none of them or victims but living women which i'll get to in a later clip there's he wants them to give him what he wants one way or another otherwise they're just wasting his time that was never the Russell Crowe character Russell Crowe had a sensitivity to women that Hopkins is often missing unless there is a direct threat or like his daughter type like very young like kids so he's putting together this different information and he talks to this be cop and he then breaks into that cop's home because he doesn't think the guy is telling everything and he discovers that there's a wiretap that somebody is tapping his house and he grabs the tape out of this because he traces this little lead which how this cop never noticed this as sort of baffling but i guess you know some cops are smarter than others and so he finds this tape he takes it back to the uh to the department and he's listening to it and he hears on the tape that the cop is basically working with a male prostitute who's that guy you were talking about the bird guy and he basically calls eternal affairs and he says hey is this cop under investigate meaning the cop he talked to the bee cop whose name is Haynes he says is Haynes under investigation for anything and like no and okay and then he tries to look up whether there's any information on this bird guy and they know who he is and that he's a male prostitute but he doesn't have any rap sheet like there's nothing on him and he thinks that's odd that how is this guy known to be a male prostitute and yet no arrests for anything that seems strange so he starts to suspect something's going on with Haynes and so um he then decides to go to uh his captain to try to convince him now this is that born again that Dutch uncle was referring to he's going to try to convince him that he should give him this this scene is stunning because what Hopkins is asking for now i don't know anything about police work i don't but it seems like what he's asking for is incredible based on the evidence that he has so far and the captain's going to agree with my assessment but you'll hear it but still this this back and forth is something i mean i i don't know that something like this happens typically but it's quite interesting to listen to so this is him going to his captain to try to convince him uh and you'll hear that he starts off trying to uh pretend that maybe he's religious before the captain sees right through it this is what i mean about the Hopkins thing he just he picks up things and disposes of them immediately whether where it sorts his stuff but this is a this is quite a fantastic little scene between Hopkins and his captain yes sergeant sir as you know i've been working full time on the nimara killing yes and and well sir so far it's a stone cold wash out then stick with it i have faith in you thank you sir it's funny you mentioned that word faith i say that because this case has been a testing of my own meagre face i mean i've never as you can probably well imagine been much of a believer in god sir but the way i've been stumbling on certain kinds of evidence in this case has me questioning my beliefs i have been i got a church on sunday and to prayer meetings three times a week but when i put on my holster i put god out of my mind you want something you tell me what it is and stop all the bullshit right sir in the course of my investigation into the nimara murder i've come across strong instinctive evidence that points to at least 16 other murders of young women dating back 15 years the emos are varied but the victims were all of a certain physical type now i've gotten the case files and these homicides and chronological consistencies and other factors have convinced me that all 16 women were killed by the same man the man in fact who killed Julie nimara what do you mean by chronological consistencies and other factors there are four dates of death on the exact same day june temp two in the early 70s and two in the late 70s and of these two were listed as gunshot suicides now any cop with half a brain should have known that women almost never kill themselves with guns is that it the last two murders have been particularly brutal which makes me believe he's close to exploding that means we've got to start pushing him sir and i can do that with a dozen experienced homicide dicks full-time i want liaisons set up with every other department in the country i need permission to recruit uniformed officers for the shit work in authority to grant unlimited overtime and most important sir we need a full scale media blitz i haven't heard any hard physical evidence you got any witnesses any notations from detectives within our department or any department that lend credence to your mass murder theory no one's bothered to go over the file so many of these 16 investigations is still open none but that's the point any other officers within our department who corroborate your hypothesis no other departments no no Hopkins i'm not going to trust you on this even though i must admit you're a good detective with a good arrest record the problem sir you know damn well what the problem is it's too old too vague too costly and too potentially embarrassing to the department that's bullshit don't talk to me about bullshit Hopkins everyone knows you have a wild hair up your ass about murdered women and if you really cared about god you first ask them to help you with your personal life Hopkins forget this thing spend some time with your family i'm sure they'd appreciate it thank you for the advice captain Hopkins if you go to the media i'll crucify you i'll have you back in uniform rousing piss bums on skid row two days that's what you've got to give me the help i need after that you can get your fucking field reports in the six o'clock news sir like i said maybe not the the way you normally would expect somebody to go to their captain ask where he's asking for a lot yeah like i said even for me not knowing anything when he says unlimited overtime i know what that means i mean that's that's not going to happen especially because he doesn't really have anything yet except you know it does make what we are shown things that don't do make sense like he is lining things up but nobody but him is seeing this so to go to the captain and ask for all this stuff is a stretch let's say so as he says he's going to give him two days before he goes to the press which i thought okay is this going to set up a thing where the captain's going to go after him or something like that which does not happen it never gets to that point because other things happen too quickly so his next stop is he's going to different feminist bookstores in la to try to figure out if anybody has had a man come in and purchase this book that he found or a book similar the one that he found in the apartment that has the blood uh the fingerprints on it and the fingerprints came back with nothing which he's not surprised by because he says well the guy's probably been doing this for a while and has never been caught because nobody's paying attention but he thinks that there's obviously a reason the guy selected that book and his hunch is that this is a person who is thinks he's either killing you know damaged women or something so he's going around and asking all these people and so he stops by this one particular bookshop that's a feminist bookshop and he starts talking to the woman there about this book and she is going to become important as the story goes on so this is him showing up just as she's closing the store and basically asking her about the book and what it's about and if there's been anybody weird in her store lately i'm Detective Sergeant Lloyd Hopkins with the police department you with the intelligence division uh no no why well the police department has a long history of trying to infiltrate causes they deem subversive my poetry has been published in feminist periodicals that are highly critical for the department also this book has been you can breathe easy i'm going to leave all that to intelligence all right i'm here on a completely different matter may i come in please miss my name is Catherine McCarthy and i prefer me as me this okay as long as you promise not to call me a police person come in thank you i'm here to investigate a murder of a woman named Julia Lynn Nemire you uh you wouldn't know her would you no i have reason to believe the killer is interested in poetry possibly in this feminist poetry in particular what led me to this is i found a bloodstained book of the scene of the crime rage in the womb do you know the book of course i'm sure it was her book see she had this little feminist poetry section on her desk and there was a space where the book was missing i'm sure he uh killer went through it and that makes me think he's interested in feminist poetry well that and the fact that he sent a poem to our post office box a few days after he killed her it was an original poem and there was a line in it that convinced me that he's killed before and will no doubt kill again look miss miss McCarthy um i don't want to tell you the condition in which i found the Nemire woman but i will tell you the poem was written in human blood his own probably which gives you some idea the kind of psychopath we're dealing with look what is it you want from me i need i need feedback on this rage in the womb what is it about what kind of book is it i need to know if you've had any strange men in your store specifically men in their 30s buying feminist literature acting angry or furtive or in any way out of the ordinary rage in the womb is an angry book it's a polemic broadside against many things violence perpetrated on women in specific i think i sold my last copy a month ago to a man or a woman i don't think i've ever sold a copy to a man actually i i don't think i've had a single man in his 30s in here now Hopkins takes that as an opening immediately where he's like oh so not too many men hang around and starts kind of getting you know starts not really hitting on her but he's basically kind of season opening and takes around for dinner and they start to kind of have this semi relationship going on and so like they show up at the at the Dutch uncle's house which surprises everybody because they were expecting him and the wife and the captain's there and he happens over here the captain over here is Hopkins saying all this shit about him uh but he thinks he's still safe because the the Charles Dunning's character just got passed whatever test to get promoted and so then there's a point where he goes out to dinner with the the bookstore woman Kathleen and she's telling the story about how when she was younger you know how she got into like feminism and all this stuff and she was part of a group of women and they were all kind of poets and artists and all this stuff and then she was sexually assaulted in high school by a couple of guys and suddenly they all didn't want to have anything to do with her and they all basically bailed on her and left her on her own and it hurt her a lot and she's telling him this story and there's a point where you know he says something that she takes to be insensitive because she says you know there's another part to it but I don't know it might be too much to tell you this early on he's like well I got through the rape story okay well not give me the whole thing and she's like what he treating this casually he's like no no I was just trying to defuse the tension but the way he's saying it I don't think it was a joke at all I think he just doesn't care about it like this is he's just kind of like let's get this moving along that's what I mean about they go back and forth with him as far as what his morality really is and so he manages to kind of convince her that he was just trying to defuse tension he's like no no I'm really interested in the story now I'm gonna play the story she tells and in the course of this she's kind of looking forward because this is clearly like a trauma she's revisiting right so she's kind of like thousand yard stare not looking at him in the course of this story there are points where you see him looking at his watch kind of like rolling his eyes like little subtle things to indicate that he doesn't actually give a shit no matter what he says that he's pretending to be interested but what he's really doing is trying to figure out if there's an angle on what he's interested in in what she's saying so just to give you the context of this but the story now I would guess you're gonna figure out where this is going right away as I did and most people will and the only reason that maybe I can explain that Hopkins wouldn't is because at this point he figures that this is going to lead to sex with her that's the only reason I can think that that he didn't immediately start to put these connections together but let me just play this and I'll let you you judge whether you can figure out what this might have to do with anything that's going on oh son now you're gonna tell me a story so sit down because I would really like to hear it I really would. So once upon a time. Once upon a time there was a quiet bookish girl who wrote poetry she didn't believe in God or her parents or the other girls that followed her so she tried very very very hard to believe in herself that was easy for a while until something terrible happened and everybody left her the loneliness became unbearable she contemplated putting an end to it all but one day she discovered someone loved her some tender man sent her a poem accompanied by flowers and he continued to send her flowers periodically and anonymously for many years they always seemed to arrive just when she needed the most through 15 years this woman has grown as a poet and a diarist and she keeps his flowers pressed and dated in glass and a treasure chest in her bedroom she speculated on her dream lover never tried to figure out who he really was she's taken his anonymous trivia to her heart decided to reciprocate his anonymity by keeping her diarist private forever the moral of the story is there's a vast difference between being alone and being lonely she no longer lonely knows that difference now you could clearly see where we're going yeah it's like yeah she's being sent home exactly right so i mean it's it's very very obvious and like i said the fact that Hopkins doesn't pick up on it i have to think is because he's blinded by his penis is the only thing that makes any sense yeah he you know it is he's it sounds like he's so he's already checked out to her story because he's like this is bullshit that he's not he's completely not listening right and so she basically says all right i'm going to go basically get myself prepared to have sex with you i'm going to go clean myself up or whatever and he's like okay and he's you know ready and then he happens to be flipping through because she had shown him her high school yearbook because she was showing him the group of women that she was with when she was younger like they're their artists collective or whatever and so he's flipping through it as he's waiting and he comes across a picture and he went to the same high school as she did they find out as they were driving to her place it just so happens they're from the same high school and he's flipping through the book and he sees a picture of the beat cop that he had talked to earlier the one whose wiretap he found and then he finds another picture of a guy and there's the nickname bird man on it which was part of the wiretap as well and so he immediately thinks wait a minute why is this guy his picture in here and now he's starting to put some things together so he tears the page out and in any leaves so he splits and then uh then then that night of i think it's that night the guy the bird man guy ends up being killed and there's a there's uh in blood on the wall is the motto from that high school yearbook and so when he realizes that when he finds out that this guy's been killed which again there's this mirroring of a young male prostitute is killed and i'm like all right confidential that young guy gets killed and so he goes and he waits in the apartment for the beat cop to show up uh whose name is whidey Haynes Haynes is the last name but his first name is whidey so he waits for him because now he thinks that this guy was involved in some way he's either the killer or he knows the killer or something so he waits and we get this scene where he basically jumps him as he comes home i'm gonna read this file and then you and i gonna talk about the old days in silver lake you know i'm uh sort of like home by myself uh this is great today i employed Lawrence Henderson as my vice-finger man i've told the men in the squad not to bust him he is a good snitch respectfully deliberate w Haynes deputy sheriff bed 408 that explains his clean rap sheet but it doesn't explain the los angeles county deputy sheriff running dope and male prostitutes and getting kicked back from fruit hustlers all over boystown does it what are you gonna do Henderson dead now on whidey find yourself a new sewer and the sheriff's dicks link you to Henderson you're gonna have to find a whole new career for yourself oh is that right well i'm clean all the way down the goddamn line and i don't know anything about Henderson's murder any of that other shit and what the fuck you're talking about you're on some kind of outlaw trip here man otherwise you'd have another cop here with you i had you made the other day when you talked about the supersize you're nothing but a punk cop who likes to hassle up the cops so you want to bust me for stealing that file hold when you bust away all the way that's all you've got on me time for a little walk down memory lane what god Kathleen McCarthy who is that? Webster high in 1972 Kathleen McCarthy's a girlfriend high school it's not good enough whidey what do you want whoever killed Henderson and god knows how many women sends Kathleen McCarthy flowers every time he kills he also had your apartment bugged how the fuck do you think i connected you and Henderson now this killer has an obsession with you whidey and i want to know why why the hell should i know you got five chances to tell me you know i can do this man yeah i'm gonna give you a little help June 10th 1973 that's the first time that killer contacted Kathleen he sent her a little poem and the flowers exactly one year before you Henderson Kathleen and the killer were at Webster high something happened did you and the bird man hurt somebody huh who was it we did do anything what did you do ah all right chances whidey john sock hunt you're gonna kill me or whatever some 15 years ago man what did you do we just want to scare we who's we me and bird you know i was bunch of concs cat in the court to put everybody down so we started going we couldn't stop what did you do you raped her you raped her you fucking piece of shit and then we had gagged bang the two of us who knew about it who loved Kathleen McCarthy and wanted revenge god man i don't know i don't know you can pull that trigger to you blow my head off but i cannot tell you what i do not stop it so at this point now we have basically most of the pieces put together on what's going on which is of course this guy was in love with Kathy in high school found out what happened and has been harassing the cop in this other guy and killed the other guy and for some reason it's been killing these other women because i mean the based on the poetry like they're not as good as Kathy like that's the idea is that they're less pure or something and so that guy the cop says you know because he's got a gun to his face he's like i can if you let if you don't kill me i will give you information on other corrupt cops and he says i'm gonna go and get the information and earlier when he broke into the apartment Hopkins saw that he has a bunch of shotguns so when the guy goes in the other room he basically goes around the opposite side and hides with a gun and sure enough the guy comes out with a shotgun the cop the whitey cop and he shoots him and he shoots him dead and then he calls Dutch and he's like uh yep i just killed a cop so you're gonna have to come here and help me his his level of no one's gonna touch me is unbelievable but sure enough Dutch shows up and he's like well this guy is a corrupt cop and he tried to come with a shotgun and Dutch is like all right go back to the station and wait for me man i gotta have to try to clean this up and so when he goes back to the station then he finds out when he gets there the captain has gotten images photographs of oh no i'm sorry he goes home first and then he goes to see that woman the roodex woman because she calls him or he calls her and and she's like yeah you never did come to get that you never did pick up the roodex he's like well can i come by and get it now she's like sure come on by and he goes to get it and now she's been murdered and then he basically has to call Dutch again and he's like yeah this woman's dead it's the same guy and Dutch is like yeah you're gonna come back to the station because we just got some photos and those photos show you having sex with her and so the captain is like if not for him and your record i would just fire you right now as it is you're under investigation and you're suspended but as this is going on Dutch at this point is on board with the fact that this is a serial killer because that has just been too many killing so now there is they at least believe that something's happening so they have the the poet woman Kathleen in and she realized has found out that Hopkins broke into her apartment and went through all her stuff that's how he knew about the diary and the flowers and all that shit because she had told him in the story and so he broke in and did not do a good job of cleaning up and so she's getting ready to sue the department and basically everybody's out for Hopkins but at the same time he is right something is happening so they get it narrowed down to a list of four names four or six names the who they think has to be the killer based on who was going to the school who matches it who's still in town all the stuff they've got narrowed down to these six people and they're going through these names with her and the first couple names she's like no i don't know who that is i don't know who that is and there's one and she says this one guy's let's see i know him he was he was in the poetry and of course if he's in the poetry we know it has to be him like Hopkins immediately he's like uh he's in the poetry and he knew you that's got to be him right so but then he gets pulled out of the room by the captain who's like just yelling at him and as they're being yelled at the woman realizes thinks that they that this guy is going to be unfairly persecuted by the cops if you remember she says the cops have a history of harassing people that they think are subversive so she walks out she gets out she goes to a phone booth and calls the guy Hopkins sees her calling the guy so this is this clip is her talking to the guy and then Hopkins showing up when he basically confirms that he is the killer more or less so this is the whole thing is this body Franco yes it is thank god i want to um you may not remember me but my my name is Kathleen McCartney from Daniel Webster high school i remember you well Kathleen you do um look you you may not believe this but there's this crazy policeman who's got your name on a list of suspects that he thinks is a mass murderer why would he think that i don't know i don't know he's got some insane ideas but when he finds out that you were poet and that you were on the poetry review with me he'll come after you he'll swear to you he's gonna hurt you what's his name Sergeant Lloyd Hopkins no okay you've heard my name i'll tell me yours what's in a name Hopkins did you get my message yes yes i got your message i've also got Kathleen McCarthy now she can tell me your name what is it don't hurt her don't hurt anyone else let it go Hopkins she's not like all the rest what are you talking to deal just let it go then what then we just got you in me that's the kind of deal i like you pick the time in the place home boy how about our union Webster high in an hour so you've got it why would you do that why would you do that i thought he was innocent i i thought you would first keep what i thought was a talented and sensitive boy i'm sorry i'm sorry it's okay just get back in there and keep duchess name in case he doesn't show up you're gonna kill him aren't you i don't know maybe this time you'll get to send him the flowers so now we've got the setup for the basically now we're you know there's about 10 minutes left in the movie so at this point he goes to the old high school and they have this kind of cat mouse game where they're you know they've got the drop on each other different points the guy's got the poet hasn't oozy and Hopkins has a shotgun and they're covered how very 80s okay yeah very very 80s oh if you saw the way the guy was dressed the poet he's in like just a black like outfit that is like parachute pants and big you know loose shirt and total 80s and so they're they're going all over the place and they're kind of you know neither one gets nobody gets hit with a bullet or anything like that but they're kind of never missing each other and then there's a point where Hopkins realizes he's in front of the bleachers where you can like hit a button and they come out so he gets he hits the button which surprises the guy so he's able to jump down and corner him with a shotgun now there's maybe three minutes left in the movie at this point so i'm sitting here going okay what is the ending of this i'm going to play this clip this clip as soon as it finishes the screen cuts to black so this is the literal end of the movie don't even think about it get up well what why don't you read me my rights cuff me take me into custody why i see you can sit in a nice comfortable cell let's just smart ass lawyer cop and insanity please that the idea what's it to you Hopkins your cop you got to take me here well there's some good news and there's some bad news the good news is you're right i'm a cop and i got to take you in the bad news is i've been suspended and i don't give a fuck and the credits start rolling that's the movie i was like this is one of the best fucking endings in the movie i've ever seen i was like holy shit like i'm gonna clip that whole thing and i clip to the part where he's like i'm suspended i don't give a fuck like that's a sound clip i'll use at some point because that's just great without the shotgun thing and then the movie just ends and the credits come up over this very kind of low key music and that's just the end of the movie and it's a really good like i said it feels like exactly what i think it is which is a prototype for what LA confidential was where would i wonder i wonder how the book concludes now yeah i don't know but i'm kind of curious to read them both now let me see here's the article to the uh subplot uh yeah there's not a lot of details on it so what is it what is the book called blood on the moon it does seem like it's different the main character oh main character there's a it's a three there's three books with the same character oh LA stated it's the only novel he's embarrassed by oh interesting okay huh yeah oh so in the book the reason nobody's ever caught the guy is because he keeps changing his MO huh well yeah yeah he's embarrassed by that's what he says but he else is like the movie first off James Elroy has written a ton of books just so you know yeah but he's embarrassed i wonder why and he didn't like the movie which i guess if he didn't like the book that you wrote i suppose i'm not surprised i don't know he wrote three of them here he's the thing he can he embarrassed only once but he wrote three of them well he wrote three with the character but this is the only one of those three that apparently he is not happy with i guess so oh but he also didn't like LA confidential it was as deep as a tortilla he said okay well whatever that's a great movie so i guess i don't care what this guy said holy shit in 2017 tom hanks uh basically said that he wanted to play Lloyd Hopkins on stage or screen well he'd be a real different version than this because he liked because he liked the books i would be fascinated by what that character would be like in his hands because i cannot buy him as this character based on what woods did anyway so the fact that this is carved into me is what this character is it'd be interesting to see somebody else do it i mean yeah i want to see what i want to see what the book is like because woods may have laid woods on the character a little bit yeah it's this sounds a lot different this is the story begins in 1965 where a 23 year old Lloyd Hopkins is with the national guard deployed to help stop the Watts riots in LA oh yeah this sounds different yeah this sounds well that then 18 years later it's this where he's a genius considered a genius uh to make intuitive leaps of logic when tracking out criminals he's investigating the brutal mother of a woman who has disemboweled in her apartment and he quickly introduces that the person responsible for the murder has been in fact killing women since the late 60s but has never been caught because he always changes his mo and then there's a subplot about his family and he adores his three daughters and deeply loves his wife but is chronically unfaithful to her his wife loves him but begins to realize his habits are not healthy for their children particularly his propensity for telling about cases he's working on so they did keep some of it they got some beats so yeah it's a fascinating movie i mean and it at first when i finished it i went oh yeah that was good i enjoyed that but the more i kind of thought about the more i'm like no i actually kind of want to buy this movie and have it as like a thing where i watched this in LA confidential within a couple days of each other because they feel so similar but it really is the thing where the the time this movie was made is imprinted on it like you can feel that it's a late 80s film in many ways and and then LA confidential that they pulled out all the stops on that that's just a beautifully made film top to bottom i mean in fact the l-writer doesn't like it what the hell is l-writer i know about making movies it's a great movie so fine he listens he he's a writer he's not a movie maker and it's good to remember that difference yeah yeah and so his book maybe a thousand times better as a book but the movie's fantastic so and i don't know the difference is maybe the characters are maybe it's more of the characters in the movie as opposed to the book i can't tell you've never read any of his books so i don't know but it's interesting that he doesn't like either of these adaptations and he doesn't like even his own book in this case so i think it's a very good james woods film and it's also very interesting if you are a fan of LA confidential to watch this because they feel so similar in certain ways which makes sense i mean you know authors tend to use i mean steven king as i said all this stuff in new england and he has lots of characters that are a lot the same and there's similar things that happen so it's not any type of dig on it it's just that yeah you know in particular to to watch this having because i'm a big fan of LA confidential i think it's a great movie in fact i was just thinking of watching it with no relation to this i was thinking of watching it anyway but now having watched this i want to watch it even more because i'm like yeah that's this is the LA confidential is the perfected version of this type of film but even as its own movie it's a fascinating film mostly because woods and i didn't realize this but then once i saw this trivia bet that he's in every single scene of the film there is no scene without him saw that yeah and and it is his movie i mean without i'm not saying nobody else could have done it yeah i actually read he he wanted to make this so bad there's something in there about him taking a pay cut to make this movie well yeah it had a low budget so i'm sure that yeah to to get it made that he probably had to work at scale or whatever but um it's a great showcase for him like i said putting aside anything outside of his acting but his acting in this is sensational because he dips back and forth where there are these even in that thing with the phone call where first he's screaming at her and then when she explains why she did it he immediately switches to being sympathetic towards her and it doesn't feel insincere it feels like he is a damaged individual who doesn't have a moderation to his impulses and that works for and against him throughout the movie where he has this utter confidence even unreasonably so because he has put something together and recognizes something others haven't but you still have to get others to to understand what you're seeing so when you just jump through like you did with the captain was like i want everything damn it because i saw this and of course he sees it and he's like i have to stop this guy and everyone else is like i don't think this is happening and why you're you have a tremendous amount of confidence in something you can't prove but of course since he sees it and knows what's happening he has complete confidence in it to a level of irrationality in what he expects from others and that's the whole movie is this thing that's the thing that it doesn't make the it was never communicated that Woods's character is some kind of genius well the guy there when you see him like in that opening scene where he's talking to the other officer and then when he's in the room like going through things it becomes evident that he is working from a system of logic where he understands how this is what's going on so i mean the clips i've got aren't the whole movie so you will you keep seeing that he is following up on things he is following leads like he's he's running things down he's keeping track of things and there is that point where the captain says you're a good detective with a greater rest record that's all you know that's basically supposed to be the demonstration that okay this isn't just him randomly hitting on something and this whole thing about you have a particular thing about murdered women this is right in the wheelhouse of what he cares about and what he's good at so nobody in this movie would refer to him as a genius but you are seeing him build this together in his head and it makes sense to you as the viewer so the thing is that he jumps from that recognition straight to well if i recognize it everybody must recognize it and it must be big and important you need to give me what i need yeah i mean the way he talks to the captain is that this is the biggest thing that's going on in a city that we have multiple demonstrations is riddled with crime at the point at that point so you can't just go in there and say well i happen to notice some dates are aligned therefore there's a serial killer who's been working here for 20 years and nobody but me noticed like yeah that's going to be a tough sell on top of saying i need a limited overtime and a bunch of people working for me and liaisons in every department in the country so that is what i mean about there's the two sides to him and they work for and against him throughout the movie his rationale about telling his daughter this terrible stuff is not is the first book of the of the series i believe it is yes god yes and i wonder i wonder yeah i wonder how he gets to the next one then well yeah it is because here blonde the moon was 84 followed by because the night same year and suicide hill 85 yeah uh see suicide hill is the name yes that that's the last thing that's the third one yeah oh and that's the one that he's most proud of so there you go he went from the first book being the one he's embarrassed by to the one i'm curious wow that's the novel begins with a psychiatrist assessing hopkins and saying he should immediately be retired with a full pension because of the events of the previous novel hopkins eludes compulsory retirement with attachment as l_a_p_d liaison officer to an fbi bank robbery investigation hopkins then manipulates his way into robbery homicide investigations jesus christ yeah this sounds just like it so there you go yeah uh yeah and if you look at the cover yeah it's in my motorcycle oh no i have a very different cover you have a different cover click on the kindle edition it's like it looks like an old fifties detective oh my god this is completely different than what i saw go to the wicked people and it looks like it looks like uh i don't know it looks it looks like uh james dean on a motorcycle overlooking l_a_ oh yeah that's still not mine you know honestly i can see why tom hanks wants to play this character i want to send you a link well based on the image you sent me yeah i saw i saw that oh that's the one i like that's the one i'm seeing i see the one you're looking at that looks like dick tracy yes yes i just i just sent you yeah or have free or humphrey boghard that's the one yeah yeah that that very much that's why uh yeah look at the one i sent you the one above yeah i saw that yeah tom hanks wants to play this guy yeah and james woods played the guy in the the image i saw yeah exactly so it's a it's uh it's uh look it's a very good movie i can understand why it didn't do well at the time if this were made today with a bigger budget it would be seen as as a magnificent like uh deconstruction in fact a lot of people did say this was a deconstruction of the kind of dirty harry idea of well a cop who doesn't play by the rules is not going to be clinched what he's going to be this guy who's basically one case failure short of being a train wreck and it's only the fact that he happens to be right that saves his ass in this and he is right but that doesn't make him a good cop so there's there would in fact be a fascinating kind of follow up to this after the fact the reviews the reviews for the book somebody wrote he gets himself both into in and out of trouble thank goodness for dutch nope and that is the thing is and he's he clearly doesn't care whether dutch is going to get in trouble for it this is what i mean about he is he is so sure that he's correct he does not care about the damage behind him or to anybody else there are points where and yet it all does and there's no reason to think it doesn't sincerely come from his desperation to stop this guy from killing more women so this is what i mean about the character has this really really fascinating dichotomy to him where this does appear to be because he sincerely does want to stop more women from being killed and yet he doesn't care about any of the people alive around him they're just tools to be used in his goal it's it's an interesting movie and james woods is great in it yeah that was it sounds good i'm i'm just very curious now about the the books yeah i mean it makes me want to kind of read the books i've never had this interest in l ri i mean i just don't but i read as i read his westerns yeah i thought that you had i've ever read it by the way do you know that there's four l_a_ confidential books no i didn't as the l_a_ quartet oh no i wasn't aware yeah and it seems like to write series of books well i mean you know people and l_a_ confidential is three of it's the third book in the series is it all focusing on the same characters i don't know hold on look at the back oh the first book is the black dahlia okay oh well that's okay uh let's see yeah bucky black heart and lee blanchard both l_a_ cops obsessed with the black dahlia journey through the seamy underside of hollywood to the core of dead girls twisted life yeah that's l_a_ confidential so which one was uh what was russell character russell crow's characters uh man um what was his character's name bud white bud yeah bud white and then guy piece was shotgun ed edmond harris no what was his name edmond something i wonder if they're different i wonder if they're different uh each book is a different crime story or did they change the names sometimes they do that they change the names of the characters um novel the same name uh three protagonists oh no edmond exly so no they're different characters window bud white yeah the different the book is exactly the same as the movie from what i'm reading here exactly the same i mean i'm sure there's little differences but the narrative is essentially well like i said there's four books so if you're looking for uh yeah and apparently a lot of people say that white jazz is one of his best books oh uh the second book is where the characters from l_a_ confidential start to come and buzz meaks who's the crooked cop who gets killed in l_a_ confidential is one of the main characters in the second book there you go and micky coe and the gangster is in the second book so okay so the second book and the l_a_ confidential are more related interest thing okay huh yeah and then white jazz white jazz is completely different people they still relations like micky coe but yeah it's the same it's the same time frame and some of the same carryover characters but oh no no here and the nextly so he is so okay so basically the second third and fourth books are far more tied together than the first and later books uh from there you go interesting yeah let me you'll have to let me know which one draws you in first yeah well i'll read in the order why not screw it but well i mean if you're going to read the james what the james woods was the blood blood on the moon ones first yeah yeah i might right yeah we'll see i don't know i'm curious which one i want to start with but regardless of the books i would say if you like l_a_ confidential watch cop because a lot of that is in here in a raw form and i think that makes it i mean it's a i think it'd be a good movie on its own with no l_a_ confidential involved but knowing what was later refined that makes this more interesting because this does feel like a kind of scaled down version of it where there's less characters but it's got that same feel to it where l_a_ confidential isn't really a happy movie it has a somewhat happy ending but there's also terrible things that are still left there you know it isn't all clean and that's what this is where okay he got him but what about all the shit that he's done like what comes after this i would be fascinated what the next year of this guy's life is like where's that movie where it's like well that's why that's why i'm curious about yeah the second uh blood on the moon book because because they seem they heat considering the third book seems to be about how the trauma from the previous books is catching up with them you kind of sit there going okay well clearly these aren't books that that are standalone to each other the previous events are affecting the character so i'd be curious how he gets out of all the shit from the first one it would be interesting to see so what your number is this by the way uh this is nine oh six so basically this concludes our nine hundred and sixth mutual interview it is for three hours we just passed three hours so yeah yeah so on that note we hope you've enjoyed this particular session of our ongoing uh internet therapy and uh on that note whatever whatever you choose to uh watch whatever your source of entertainment that's that's the title right there it's uh was it i was an irony man in the internet internet therapy i already man in the internet therapy that sounds like a like a new age book right there or or forget like metal band from 92 and uh new what was it called and the internet irony man and the internet therapy there we go oh god it's rappy therapy not thrappy oh thrappy that's probably sounds like that sounds like that sounds like it sounds like an illness you get in the crotchal area yeah that's that's uh guy got a case of the practice what's got after having sex with all these different women you got a bad case of thrappy on that note everybody have a wonderful weekend and we'll talk to you again next week visit ozone nightmare dot com to subscribe to new episodes browse through our back catalog or to find links to support the show follow at ozone nightmare on twitter for the latest episode postings and other show information if 280 characters just isn't enough you can always email us the ozone nightmare at gmail dot com the opening theme for the show is provided by heartbeat hero the closing theme is provided by oger please visit and support these artists using the links in the show notes for each episode so so so so so so so so so so so so so [BLANK_AUDIO]