Hello folks, welcome back and if you're a new listener, welcome to the show. This is the High Performance Humor Podcast and I'm your host Simon Ward. One of the key components to hold off the aging process is mobility and I talk about this a lot in the podcasts with my guests. I clearly remember how my own father was less mobile year on year from his early 60s. But this is not an inevitable consequence of getting older. In fact, with regular movement practice, you can lead a full and active life into your 70s ambion. Now, must admit, it took me a while to fully get the message about this but for the last four or five years, I've spent at least 15 minutes every morning working through my own daily mobility routine. Although you have to do that, you can go to a yoga classic, that is your preference. If you would like to get started with your own routine, then to help you along the way, I've put together a short plan which should take you on 10 minutes to work through and which covers all of the main joints. And if you'd like to get a free copy of that, then please click the link in the show notes. It's really obvious, so just look to the bottom of those at the end of today's episode. Now onto this week's guest. Regular listeners will have heard me talk about turning 60 in February and how it's sharp in my mind and prompted me to just my focus around training and life habits. I've also become a lot more curious about how other folks are tackling life post 60. Are they just waiting for the inevitable or are they being proactive and doing everything they can to continue living life to the full? And today's guest, Jason Dunn, is one of those people. A few weeks ago, post popped up on Facebook groups that I'm part of from Jason about his new book Unlimited, The Art of Being Limitless. In a nutshell, Jason made a huge decision in his teens to turn away from his boy or dream of becoming a professional footballer in England and at 17 he moved to Australia. He started to build his new life, but because he was super busy and chasing his goals, he succumbed to cigarettes and alcohol and often shows the easier road. For a couple of decades, he carried the weight of I could have until at 34 he embarked on a radical shift. Despite never having learned to swim on a rider bike, he resolved to qualify for the Hawaii Ironman World Championships. Talk about huge goals, eh? A simple choice to take the tougher road and face life's fears, set in motion the pathway to what he calls being unlimited. And along the way though, as you will hear, it's littered with adversity, life-threatening accidents and heartbreaking failures. I have to say, I really, really enjoyed this conversation. I found that Jason and I were super aligned and during the conversation you'll hear how things, when we chat about how Jason turned himself from a non-swimmer with a fear of water into a triathlete, did qualify to race in Kona. Which is a 2.4 mile open water swim, no, wet suit. He's completed huge ultra running feats. We talk about gratitude and maintaining perspective when things don't go to plan, about overcoming your fears and overcoming serious injuries, how all of that builds resilience, and we talk finally about the importance of nutrition and movement. So as I said, Jason is a super engaging person, so I really hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I do. And prepare to explore the world of being limitless. Welcome Jason Dunne, thank you for joining me. Simon, it's my pleasure, thank you for having me on. I've done a little bit of an intro to tell people about you and about your book, but I'm going to tell the story now, if you don't mind, for a minute or two of why we're here chatting. So like you, I'm a member of various Facebook pages that are around triathlon and endurance training and dislongivity thing and sort of mindset. And one day this post cropped up and there was this guy stood there in a pair of running shorts, looking really ripped, standing on the beach. And the text underneath said, this is me on my 60th birthday. Now I turned 60 back in February. And one of the things I talk about on this podcast regularly and with my clients is about longevity. And what do you need to do now at 60 or what do we need to all do at 50 to still be doing the stuff that we love when we're 60 or 70? Okay, like you, I've got quite a few friends who are in their 70s still doing ultra running and triathlon. And I am inspired by them and I aspire to be like them. And I often ask them, you know, how do you keep going? What is it about your life that's enabled you to keep doing this when most other people stop? So I saw your story and I thought, now this is a guy I need to chat about. And then I read a little bit of a chat with about this story. And then I saw this little bit that said, 25 years ago, I was scared of water. I couldn't swim. I was a smoker. I was a drinker. You know, I was out of shape and I'm like, wow, now this is a high performance human story. We need to unpick. So here we are today. Very kind. Thank you. So firstly, let's just, we'll talk briefly about the book because we'll come back to that at the end. Your book is the art of leading a limitless life. Is that right? It is unlimited to the art of being limitless. Okay. Sorry. So what inspired that title in? I think that, you know, I was trying to, and I recently took last year off and focused on, you know, writing my story, which I wanted to do and release when I reached, by the time I reached 60 or at the age of 60. And I, you know, I whiteboarded many different titles and, you know, reading a title is all about the essence of the book and, you know, obviously grabbing people's attention because if you don't grab people's attention, then you're not going to do any, you know, you're not going to change any lives and you're not going to help people because nobody's going to read it. And I went through many iterations and it's interesting when I actually stopped thinking about it, the title came to me because the essence of my transformation and my life change was going from somebody that like every other him being had a whole bunch of fears that, you know, some small, some larger that kind of held them back. And, you know, which meant that you were limited. You were limited in what you would attempt to do, you were limited in what you believed you could do, and even if you did go after something that you thought was meaningful and a challenge, you know, when the chips are down, when the gun gets tough, you've got to believe, you know, you've got to find a way to be resilient, believe, pick yourself up quickly. Unlimited was the mindset that, you know, without sort of portraying myself as being overconfident, but unlimited was the real internal belief that I landed on and that I built and which kept me going after things that the essence is going after things that I had once thought were impossible. And the core of being unlimited is about, you know, going after things that are incredibly challenging or at one stage you believe are impossible. And if you would know, being around so many, you know, incredibly successful mindset success, you know, people that challenge themselves to find out what their limits are and get fitter, et cetera, is when you see somebody that achieves something remarkable they once thought was impossible, they sort of undergo this remarkable, almost transcendence. And it's just an amazing thing to experience, I've experienced that many times. This works sounds like you may have this phrase about, you know, finding my limits is quite interesting. I have a chat that I coach and we've worked together for at least 10 or 12 years now, maybe a bit longer, and he set out to see if he could do 100k ultra run a few years ago, and at 62k his hamstring and his glutesy stuff. So he could bet he was like, he said, he was like walking with a wooden leg, he was just swinging it along. I didn't get any, I couldn't do any running action with that leg and in the end he became too uncomfortable and painful. So I had to stop and of course, you know, this guy's done some amazing endurance events since then and he's finished Iron Man races and what happened. So he's got, you know, he's got the endurance capabilities, but on his on this day was his body that let him down. And I left him for a few days to think about it. And then he said to me, do you know what, I'm really pleased about this thing. I'm not seeing, is it a failure? I set out to find out what my limits were and I've bloody well found them. Well, that's a success right, but you have to have a very open mind and a growth mindset to be able to see it in that way, don't you? Because most people would have said, well, I failed. I got two thirds of the way through and I failed because it didn't reach the end. But the end, the end isn't necessarily the achievement, is it? It's finding where your limits are at that moment. That's where his limits were. And now he knows where he needs to go and what he needs to do if he wants to push on further. Absolutely. And, you know, there's a danger when you set yourself, you know, huge feats or huge goals and you achieve them or you don't either way, there's a danger. You know, when you do, you know, you need to celebrate that. And I, one of the things I had to teach myself was how to actually appreciate the journey because, you know, the journey might be a year and the event is a day or days, you know. And so you go, well, what I'm going to do just, you know, it's the journey that's meaningful and it's the struggle, it is the struggle, as you well know, that brings meaning. And so I think once you start to truly understand and, you know, you pull it apart, you, you know, you can train your brain to go, you know, struggle, difficult, worthwhile. So it doesn't, it actually, you know, and I think one of the mantras that I'd heard, you know, at a conference, I've been to hundreds of conferences during my career and like many others, you know, you listen to some of the most remarkable people in the world that have achieved things that, you know, are mind-blowing. And you can hear a pin drop in the audience and everyone is spellbound and there'll be a whole bunch of, you know, discussion afterwards, but you just know that 99% possibly 100% of the people in that audience will walk away and do nothing with it. And so, and that was me, that was me until, you know, until my life changed. My second life, as I call it, so my first life is to a day, age of 35, and then I have my second life, which is ongoing and I don't think I'll have a third one. Anyway, sorry, I get back to the story. So I heard this remarkable person say, this remarkable human say, to be truly successful in life, you must first do the things you don't want to do, when you don't want to do them. And I lived finally one day that made sense. I did add to that, when, you know, to be truly successful, you must first do what you don't want to do when you don't want to do it until you do, which is the habit forming. The until you do beat is where you recognize when your mind tells you that, you know, you wake up in the morning, it's 4.30, you've got to go training and it's a cold morning and not that it gets that cold in Australia, but it's a cold morning and, you know, there's just this immediacy, you know, this thought that, oh, it's cold, I don't want to, I don't want to go to the swimming pool, you know, and, but then you're, you're training of your mind, you just go, well, actually, that's what will make me successful. And 99.99% of the world's population will stay in bed, will not go. And so that's what, that's what will enable me to achieve what it is I want to do. So as soon as I have that thought, I go, right, that success, get up and do it. And I'll come back to the four second rule, which you may ask me about, but I'll, I'll come back to that a little bit later. I've made a note. I will interject there, by the way, one of the coldest nights I've ever experienced in my life was in Australia. Right. Surprisingly, I was hitchhiking from Sydney to Melbourne and I got stuck in Gundagai now with a dog in the tucker box. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I couldn't get a lift. And so I ended up going to this sort of like pub and they had a room, but there was no heating and it was absolutely freezing and there was only like one thin sheet and I lay there all night with all my clothes on, just shivering until it was time to get up and start the them in a lift again. And how, how, how cold do you think it was? I don't know, cold enough that I felt like I was shivering all night, but probably, I mean, it's probably not that cold. I've been in, you know, I've been in minus 30 in places, but yeah, that just seemed at the time like it was one of the coldest nights of my life. Yeah. And you remember the day. I've had a few. I know I've, I've participated in the CEO sleep out, which is for instance, which is incredibly moving thing to do that. For me, just embellishes my sense of gratitude and you know, you sleep outside in the middle of winter in Australia. So it's not the same as UK, but it does go down to, you know, it'll go down to often to two or three or sometimes zero, and you just sleep on a piece of cardboard and the sleeping bag. Yeah, but there's a thing there, right, Jason, when you, when you're outside and you're on a cardboard and you sleep back and you're scared and vulnerable, that makes everything feel a little worse, doesn't it? It does. Yeah. For me and for all the other, you know, wonderful people that take part in that, you know, we can go back home, nice, comfortable home, warm home, you know, plenty to eat. But it just, you know, I think a very incredibly important thing in life is to always try and walk around in other people's shoes and, you know, for, you know, four times it enabled me for a night to, you know, at least get close to understanding. We were in New York a few years ago and it was, it was Christmas and we're walking down Fifth Avenue, you know, so one of the most expensive shopping places in the world. And there's this poor girl, I think we were going back to get asked some boy back home. There was this girl there just sitting on the street and she was, you know, asking for money and she looked a bit cold and that you don't normally see females sleeping rough. So obviously and I think my wife offered, we started talking to her, find out her story and she'd been to New York and, you know, moved in with a boyfriend and it hadn't ended well. And so she wanted to get home but she didn't have any money and, you know, so she would just struggle and she'd fallen between the cracks if you like. So my wife said, would you like my coat? You know, she gave her a puffer jacket and said, oh, I believe she said, would you like, you know, I think we might have bought her a coffee in her sandwich. But she was saying I had a coat, but somebody, when I got to the hostel one night, one of the other people that was sleeping rough stole it off me, you know, said, you can't trust anybody these days. Everybody, you think everybody's out there helping each other, but they're not, they're all just trying to survive, aren't they? So, I think that whole living in somebody else's footsteps is really pointing. So, um, I'm just going to go back a few minutes. You talked about celebrating achievements. A couple of weeks ago, I had a doctor, Josie Perry says, I've known Josie in her husband for a long time. She's a sports psychologist. And we talked about why folks cross the finish line and then say, oh, I was lucky today, you know, I only won because nobody else turned up. Like, yeah, but you, the only one who turned up, you, the only one who did all the training, you were the only one who had the courage to enter, right? So, and you saw it through, did all those things you didn't want to do when you didn't want to do them until you good. Um, so that's still a victory. And if you're 70, that's a victory because in the life of last man standing, you're, you're at the front of the, in the front pack. Oh, yeah. Right. But anyway, you know, you know, or I only set that, I only ran so fast today because there was a tail window. This or that, the other, so rather than celebrating that achievement, finding ways to sort of just just, you know, completely demolish it. Um, and she said, oh, yes, she said, you see this very, a lot with serial gold medalists at the Olympics in the world. So they'll, they'll get on the podium, they'll have the nice lantern, they'll get the medal, they'll get all the blood, it's, they'll be in the papers. But after a couple of hours, maybe after a beer or two, they'll be like, okay, now I'm going to get this back in four years time, right? And it's straight on to the next thing. And I think, um, I see that so much in folks that cross cross and I am, I'm finished line and go, okay. Right. Simon did, uh, I did 10 30, but I reckon if I do this race next year, I can do nine 30. I mean, like six months ago, you couldn't swim. Absolutely. Let's cheer about that. Yeah. You've got to feel good about what you do and you've got to feel good doing it. You know, you've got to celebrate your and recognize your success. And again, that comes down to, it comes down to gratitude. Gratitude is the bedrock, the foundation of everything. Do you keep a gratitude diary every morning? I, I don't because I, you know, there's a whole bunch of practices, which I've tried. I don't know. Hopefully I've articulated them or, you know, explain them well, which were the techniques that I evolved to change my mindset. And, um, you know, so one of those was, you know, like everybody else, you get those days or moments where things are not going well, you know, it feels so good about yourself. There's a whole bunch of worries. And so, you know, a, a really healthy mindset is one that doesn't ignore, you know, um, you know, disappointment and well, I don't say discipline, but doesn't ignore tragedy. You know, it doesn't ignore a challenge, you know, it doesn't ignore sadness. It just enables you to cope with those and to bounce back as quickly as possible and feel fortunate because, you know, feeling fortunate and gratitude is, as I said, is the bedrock. So I think the technique that I develop was, I actually, again, these are evolutions of other people's fabulous and fantastic ideas, was to, you know, um, I drew a set of scales, you know, the old style kind of metal, heavy scales. And you know, think about the principle of, you know, your, your positivity and your mindset, you know, and most people will focus more on the things that are troubling and worrying them and just forget how damn lucky they are. And they'll, you know, every day that you don't celebrate, every day that you don't make the most of it. And when I say make the most of it, it's loving the people around you, showing them you love them. You know, looking at the sky, all you might not do that so much in the UK, but we do that a lot here and you go into the sun there, what a beautiful day, being out amongst nature, staying high to everyone that goes past you in the street, always trying to help other people, you know, there are so many fabulous things. So I started to kind of write down my inventory and I had, you know, a lot, you know, a standing inventory, which were all the things that I could think of that I had to be grateful for. And it was a pretty damn long list. So whenever I would have anything that was troubling me, I'd write it on the other side and I'd look at the list and go, I don't know what I'm worrying about. I'm not going to remember this thing in a year. I'm not going to remember it in probably in a few months. And so that also brings perspective and meaning to things that are insignificant or relatively insignificant. I also talk in a book about a scale which is, I used probably more so to help others which was immediately positioning the situation or the challenge or the issue you're facing on a series of sort of life nature events, you know, like at the top are you in the middle of the ocean, 100 miles offshore, there are no boats inside, your boat's gone down and you've been circled by things, you should be worried, you know, you're going to die. And then down the other end is that, you know, have you just been bitten by a mosquito on a barbecue or for endurance athletes, you've just turned your ankle on a run, right? And you see all these posts, oh, well, it's me. I can't run now for two weeks because the doc says this, you can't run for two weeks, right? And then you just turned your ankle, you're not going to die tomorrow. You're not. And I think you're not going to die tomorrow. Yeah. The first moment, for me, the life-changing moment, and if I can kind of just talk about a year that I had when I was, you know, I was from about 17 and a half to 18 and a half and maybe just a tad longer, so it was about a year, the pretty big year as a young person. So I left the UK, emigrated to Australia, which was a fairly big move. I left everything behind that I knew. I went from a pretty small kind of town village to, you know, three and a half million people in Sydney in a big city. And with kind of no real career prospects, I sort of just finished my school study. And I did a whole bunch of things, I paint a little, so I just got the yellow pages and I went off in search of organisations that might be able to use my artwork. And I managed to get a couple of exhibitions and I also managed to get, I think it was the youngest artist in the world to paint the originals for the Intercontinental Hotel Chain, which was a, this was the biggest hotel development in Australia because it took the Treasury Building in Macquarie Street, which was a very historic building and turned hotels. All my paintings ended up in all the rooms of the Intercontinental Hotel. I borrowed some money and I started the third video cassette shop in Australia. So nobody had even, you know, we were a bit behind the UK, nobody had even heard a video cassette. I then had a car accident and, you know, that was one of my first, almost fatal accidents and one of my endless 35+ hospitalised auditions. And I also bought two properties in Sydney with almost no money and then I proceeded to work for two years, seven days a week, 70 hours a week and I left off sausages and potatoes and baked beans. Now it was a pretty big year but I recall waking up in the hospital and I'd been in surgery for seven hours, I fractured my jawbone in 16 places, my cheekbone in three, I had three skull fractures, I'd lost half of my teeth, I had my jaw wide together and I wasn't feeling too good. So I wake up and I looked around and I sat there and I started to feel a little sorry for myself and then I saw a little boy being brought past with no hair so I was obviously undergoing chemo and that was really the first defining moment for me where I felt enormous gratitude and I was able in that moment to go, there are so many people in this world, this hospital and this world, they may not survive and they're facing fire, I'm alive. This could have, I was so lucky not to die that I felt lucky and I felt gratitude and so there have been endless other instances but I've managed to really quickly find gratitude for being alive. Well, let's go back a bit then, I feel like we're going to be rewinding a fair bit today but that's fine. The gratitude thing, so I like probably like you, I like to do some meditation most days but I don't call it meditative practice, I wouldn't say that there's a 10 minute block where I lie down and I do my breathing, you know, quite often where we are, we're blessed with the opportunity to walk into the woods quite quickly and I like going in there. If frustrates me, I see so many people walking around in the woods wearing their headphones and their faces in their phones and they're just, you know, there could be three deer were doing a little mating dance around the tree or something and people wouldn't notice it but so I like to walk around and I sort of feel like that walking around through nature is as meditative as you can get, you know, immersing yourself and there's a lot of research about forest bathing, my brother-in-law does a lot of that in the Alps with clients. So, and I had a guest on who talks about meditating, she said, "I didn't really like the formal stuff where you sit there cross-legged chant manager," she said, "I prefer to do waking meditating where I can sit and watch the beach and watch the waves roll in and just watch the breaks and watch the people on the beach and just watch things happening and you know, you just get, you can easily get soaked in that. I guess if you go and sit on the, you know, at Bondi Beach, you can, there's a whole lot of stuff going on that you could get immersed in growers. There's definitely a lot. So you wouldn't, I wouldn't call it formal meditation and I appreciate what you said about gratitude is, yes, I have friends that I've had guests on who talk about writing a gratitude diary every day and if that's the way they like to get their thoughts out and write it down, that's great if it works for them but you don't, for those people who feel like I should do gratitude because everybody says I should do gratitude stuff every morning. There are different ways in which you can do it, everything, and I think this might be a theme that comes up quite a lot and definitely comes up with previous guesses. You have to find a way that works for you in your life. If it works for you to be just building this habit where you feel gratitude and you have perspective and you're able to see the positive side so that, that very powerful what you said there about being in hospital and feeling sorry for yourself and then seeing a little kid that's obviously undergoing cancer treatment and may not survive, all the parents of that kid who are thinking is our little one and he may not survive. Absolutely. I mean, shit, how bad does it have to be for you to feel like that? You know, when you're there are you because you're feeling pain today and you're going to get some medication but in a few days, what are you going to walk out of there? Absolutely and you know, and the next stage of that is you recognize that but yet then you reach out. You know, you understand, you empathize and you reach out so perspective is so important and I, again, if I can, there's a few things as they come in, I know you're going back. You know, I went through again an inventory because I believe an inventory of my vocabulary and thoughts because we are our own worst enemy. And so how you behave, what you think and your mindset is determined often by the words you say and the words or the thoughts that you think and also how other people see you is determined by that. So, you know, once you've been around for a while and you're, you know, you're pretty adept at this, you can meet someone and you know their mindset within 20 or 30 seconds. And so I went through this inventory and I was, you know, to look at words that I thought were really damaging, words that were really negative words that were holding me back and or were not allowing me to be as positive as I could be. And I believe, you know, this unlimited principle is, you know, when you're really, really, you know, when your mind's really healthy, the healthiest is, you know, on one end of the spectrum, you believe that you're unlimited, you don't believe you're better than people, but you believe that you can achieve anything. And on the other end of the spectrum, you're paralyzed with fear and you'll operate in that, along that scale every day in different places and what you really need to operate as much as you can in 10% of your momentary is slipped down to 70%, you've got to run your back to the 100%. So, and you become really acutely aware. So I was really pleased because there were only a handful, a lesson a handful of words that I could find that were highly negative that I wanted to erase because they influenced me. Hard was one of them. And you know, because if you say it's hard, it is hard. And I would find in training sort of 20 plus hours a week, and I worked out a little while ago, how much I have trained, and I've swam 1,500 kilometers, I've cycled 110,000 kilometers and I've run 130,000 kilometers in little over, a bit over 20 years. And you know, when you're, you know, one of, I always believed train yourself harder than the game, train your mind harder than the game. So I do, some of the stuff I do is extremely monotonous and I do always do it on my own because it makes me really, really strong. If I can cope with that, race day with 2,000 people, you know, I'm having a ball. So I would run up and down one hill close to where I live, which is about a one and a half kilometers up. I'm obviously one and a half kilometers down. So my weekly, and when I train really hard, I do this two or three times a week, I'll be run up and down six hours. So I'd run 30 kilometers uphill, 30 kilometers down, you know, some days it'd be 35 plus degrees and you know, when you get to three or four hours in, you know, you're starting to feel it because you've run 160 Ks during the week and you've been doing that for months and your mind will tell you it's hard, like you feel, you know, your body is feeling it, so your mind says it's hard. And so I just, you know, I banish that thought and something I learned from, you know, one of the greatest runners of all time, probably the greatest marathon runner of all time, which is how that could show you, there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of theories around why the guy smiles, you know, at the 38th kilometer or 37 kilometers, he grimacing or he's smiling, because I'd like to sit in a, he's smiling camp. And so I tried that. And it's incredible how your whole mindset changes when you smile in anything in life. But when something's really tough, I do that three or four hours in, I smile, I just feel great. And I just get through that moment and I carry on. There is some research out there about smiling and the impact it has on your performance. In fact, I had a, I had a champ called Alex Hutchinson. I don't know if you've ever come across him, he wrote a book he's a, he is a writer. I can't remember this Canadian or American, but he writes for Outdoor magazine, he wrote a book called Endure, I recommend it's really worth the read. And he talks about a lot of research there and the whole, the whole, the whole piece about smiling was, was really significant. I was, I was writing down there when you said you make, you make your training hard. So on race day, it feels like a breeze. That's, they used to be a Russian general called Marshall, Marshall Zovarov, I think his name was. Thank you. And his phrase was hard training, easy combat. And that was what he used to tell his soldiers now. That might be folklore, Russian folklore, or it might be true, but it certainly wraps up what you were just saying there quite nicely. And it does. And look, I, you know, I have, I have respect for people that, you know, I'm not able to get the training in and actually, you know, they, they show up for an event that they've signed up for. And, you know, I have, I have respect for that. My philosophy has always been that train hard on the game never, ever miss a training session unless it is just humanly impossible. And for me, that's because I'm in hospital or some, something like that. And even as if some bizarre stories around how quickly I've got back to training and. But yeah, you just, you know, you just got to, you, you just got to, if you're going to show up, show up prepared, give yourself the best chance of having a great experience and achieving what you set out to do, you know, lots of people and, you know, fabulous that you really, you know, your main thing is to finish. I showed, I showed up to, you know, to achieve what I set out to do and I had some pretty big goals, so I just always made sure that I was prepared. And because otherwise, you know, I'm just, I'm going to let myself down. If nothing else, I don't worry about what other people think, I'm going to let myself down. So. Do you have any, do you have any self compassion, Jason, do you, do you allow yourself to be compassionate if your body is broken and your knees so swollen and you've got this six hour hill running session, are you, do you have the mindset where you'll say, okay, look, I recognize that I'm a bit broken today, I need, I do need to take some time off, you know, or let's say you'd had a really traumatic sort of personal life leading up to an event and things suffered, you hadn't been sleeping, you'd not been eating well, would you, would you cut yourself some slack around that if, if the result didn't go your way? No, okay. It would only be if it's, you know, my, you know, my family, if there's some, some impact for them, you know, maybe give you a couple of, couple of examples. And I've had four, five vehicle, serious vehicle truck accidents. At the time I've been on my bike, I did have one where a half ton box trailer fell on me and nearly snapped me in half, that one's a bit extreme, but I've been hit by a few trucks. And it's probably a good job that you, it's probably a good job you trade on your own, right? Yeah, it is. Well, maybe that's a consequence because nobody wants to trade with me. So you know, the, I remember once I, when I was getting training for an Ironman, I just qualified my first half Ironman, which was kind of seven or eight months after I started and I couldn't swim and we'll probably get back to that bit, but I qualified. So I just started my training, you know, I had five, five months for Australian Ironman and I was at cycling and I do love, I do love the sun, which is where I love Australia. And I do love the beach and I don't know why on this day, it was the only time I've ever done and I decided to go for a ride on my bike, just a 50 K spin, you know, it was along the beaches and I went with a shirt on. And about 40 K in a truck with a sort of massive, you know, steel A frames on a flat bed truck came up behind me, hit a bump, the thing dislodged and the thing, and it collected me. So it came off the side and collected me and apparently I disappeared out of sight of the driver behind and said, you suddenly disappeared, you know, you went pretty high in the air. So I came down on my pup and my back and so I had sort of four areas of skin about this large that were gone, two from my butt and basically most of my back. And you know, you could see bones, elbows coming from a skin, a bunch of stuff like that. And but I was lucky, I knew I was lucky. For a couple of days in hospital, taking everything out and, you know, every day, it was actually 40 plus degrees in Australia at that time. And I recall they, you know, these massive patches, these massive sort of dressings, they taped, they taped them around me because it was so hot, you know, they were just literally sweat made for the life. And after three or four days, I had to stand up, a couple of days I had to stand up because I couldn't sit down, it all started sort of harden up. I just couldn't move. So I just stood up all day. Anyway, so I had this trial of this synthetic skin because it was a long, long while ago. So I was put on that trial and they put their sort of synthetic gore skin to help grow my skin back. But it was eight days later, I was out running, I couldn't worry, sure, but I was out running training for the Ironman with this synthetic skin all over me. And there's just a whole bunch of others, so many things, you know, like that. You know, so no, no excuses, I have no excuses once, there are so many times I don't recall, I remember when I was training for the Western States, which is my first ever trial race. I rocked up and they laughed at me. And because this was, you know, obviously one of my prestigious and I hadn't done a trial race, the film crew laughed at me. But I was training for it and, you know, it was our winter, and I got a cold and we had this three or four weeks of torrential rain nonstop, I know that's hard to believe, but torrential rain nonstop, I had to run twice a day, I was running 200 plus kilometers away and a cold within a few days went to bronchitis and then five days later, maybe a week later, it was kind of, I think it was diagnosed as pneumonia, but I ran twice a day for three weeks and the rain came down, I knew I had pneumonia, but I just kept doing it. So I don't, because I have made many excuses in my life until in my first life, I made two main excuses and I made the choice to often take the easier road. That's why I just don't allow myself to have to have any excuses is just, I feel like you and David Goggins might get on quite well if you had a beer, it will be, it will be okay. Okay. Let me tell you this story. Oh, no, that's nothing. Let me tell you this. Right. Well, okay. Let me tell you this. Yeah. That's very, very, very kind of you to remind me, put me in the category with David Goggins. I did that Western States 100, which is my first trail race and I had no experience. I did line up with him at that event. Now, is it a good deal younger than me? I think I raced and I know I raced as well with David, but actually I just had a thought. You might as I just go back to, because I'm training for that trail race, which was my first one. And another reason I'm going back is because you were just mentioning about the gratitude bit and being close to the woods and you love going there. So it's funny when I go back to the UK because I love, I go back pretty much almost every year I've been seeing my mom and my family and I love, especially in summertime, going for a run in the woods and I must look really strange because when I'm running in the woods, I'm just looking around all the time and there's no need to be because there's nothing that can kill you. No snakes, but this is, so you're talking about, I actually, and I love nature, nature for me is trees, water, that is the most calming, beautiful thing in the world. Because I live right in the centre of Sydney, in the city, I could run about 10 kilometres, maybe 7 or 8 kilometres and get to Lane Cove National Park, which is enormous, it just goes, part of it just goes for hundreds of kilometres and great races there. And some of it's pretty overgrown, there's lots of rocks, it doesn't have big mountains in it, well it does further up, but there's a lot of things in there that can kill you and well there's lots of snakes. And so there were sections of that, I would actually put my headphones in because I just didn't want to hear what was going around me, because you'd be running, and so you wouldn't see people rowse and you'd be running, you could hear them. And you would see snakes, but I just didn't want to, so I'd put my headphones in, there's one day, I'll never forget this day, I knew there were some pretty big reptiles in this park and I'd been running for about 5 hours, I was heading back, about a 7 hour run, solo and I was running maybe 50, 70 feet above the river below on a ledge, about 5 feet wide and sort of rock this side and then a rock fall away that side and I'm sort of running around this curving track and I come around this corner, I've actually got my music in and there was a 6 foot monitor lizard running straight at me, so it's as big as me, it's caused as big as my hands and I had a music, I screamed and I just stopped and it stopped, so it stopped about 15 feet in front of me and I just, there was no way I could get past it, there was no way to go, I could go backwards, but I was just too tired to go backwards, so we faced each other off and I jumped up and down for a while and then suddenly it moved towards me, I had stories about these things running up, running up people because they left a lot of trees, and fortunately there was a tree, there was a rock wall there and there was a tree here and it just went into the tree, but it didn't go up, it just sort of stopped their head height and it just looked at me, its tail wasn't the ground and it was looking at me, so I just kept going until the sudden it shot up in the tree, but yeah, so it's a bit different. The show you're listening to right now and all of my others that provide you with amazing real life advice and guidance from top coaches, athletes and successful humans, well, making it takes me a lot of time, but I feel it's well worth it, and all in the name of helping you to improve your health, longevity and performance. And all I ask in return is this, please send a link to this podcast to somebody you know who you think will benefit. And if you haven't done so already, please click follow this podcast on whatever platform you're listening to right now, so that you don't miss any of our future episodes. Thank you. Let's get back to the show. We were cycling yesterday and we came into a clearing and there was a deer grazing. Oh, wonderful. That's about as, that's about as dangerous as it gets for us. That's, that's beautiful, well, there are, I mean, there are places here, you know, I've been to many times and I've actually raced in them where it was my first half ironman, which was in North Queensland, just north of Cairns, and they have, you know, crocodiles and sharks, big sharks in the same place. They have stingers, which will kill you. Oh, box jellyfish, crocodiles and sharks, yeah, all in the same place. And for a, for a pond that couldn't swim, you know, my first really decent sized hit out was, you know, okay, swim out in the cross the surf and all those things are in the water. So that's another thing, my facing fears. So let's, let's rewind. Sorry. Again. Again. Just to stop. No, no, no, no. It's great. I love this story. It's about, we're talking about these, all these reptiles and things, diving down rabbit holes and snake holes is brilliant, and I'm making notes. So I won't forget, but you talked about your first life up to 35 and then you talked about your second life post 35 up to today. And that, I think that was what really caught my eye about that initial picture that I saw in the little narrative afterwards was how you changed your life round. So tell us about that first life. You said you were an alcoholic. You said you were a smoke. Were you an alcoholic or are you just drinking a lot? Yeah. I love to drink. Oh, I know. Look, I, I love to drink and probably early on I would sort of probably drink a few couple of beers every night and literally under the stress of being mortgage to the health with two properties on my own, with my own business and working seven days a week. And then, you know, my career, which was sort of predominantly being in financial services, you know, you're always entertained, you're always going to conferences, you know, everyone drinks. It's kind of what you do. So that was probably, you know, more circumstance. But yes, I did like a drink and yes, I smoked a packet of cigarettes a day. Okay. Well, what was your life like then between the age of 17, apart from working all the hours, God sends and making payments to the bank for all of your, for all of your borrowings, was it just entertaining partying, you know, and then, and then obviously you sort of probably when you're in that world, you don't recognize that your health is deteriorating a little bit. And when you, when you're in your twenties, new early thirties, you feel like you're invincible anyway. So it doesn't matter. I can sort of, I can sort of things out tomorrow if I want to, but you don't do it. No, you don't, you just make, you know, enjoy it the day you do things that make you feel good. And you don't really think too much about the future. And, you know, I'm sure you'll probably ask me to talk about what changed it and legacy and so on. So look, you know, half of that time was doing that. And the other half sort of from 26, 27 was getting married and having children, you know, which is the best part of your life. And working hard, you know, working hard, you know, without necessarily a real plan, but just working really hard and trying to, you know, your purpose is, your purpose is to look after your family and provide for them and, you know, create and help provide a happy life and to be there and so on. So that's kind of, that's your purpose. And it is probably the greatest purpose in the world. It wasn't, that was not, that was my purpose, but it wasn't a purpose just for me, if that makes sense. So that was what was missing. And the things, there was one, there was a sentence that I used to say often, especially if I was drinking and especially if I was in a conference and a bit general conversation, I'd be talking about things and somehow, you know, I would, we'd be talking about maybe playing football soccer as we call it here. And I'd say to someone, I'd say, I could have, you know, I could have been a professional soccer player and I had this growing sense of unease, it just built up. I was becoming more regretful over the fact that I made a practical pragmatic decision of 15, not to, you know, take an apprenticeship for a first, not a first or second division professional club in the UK. And I made a choice for a bunch of reasons, you know, it was my dream as a child, but that was what most boys dream in the UK. And lots of parts of the world is to be a professional football player. And so I'd lived that dream and I actually got, it was there, but it was too much of a risk. You know, I'd have to travel hours, you know, four times a week and if there's a 15 year I'll just try and get to training and so on, I'd have to almost abandon my school studies, which kind of, in my family just wouldn't have been acceptable. So that was, that was where I could have came from. So I've got a question for you, Jason. If you take the Jason done at 60, with the Jason done mindset, it's limitless mindset and you apply it to that 15 year old, would you have taken a different path back then? Or would you still feel like you took the right path? Well, I regretted it and I've learned, you know, regret is regret will cheer you up. And so I don't regret, I actually don't regret anything. Sometimes I do think that is the path I should have taken, but I just said to myself, you know what? Learn from it, you didn't. All that's important now is that you make the right decision each time and if that helps you make the right decision, you know, then that's the learning. And so, even in terms of, you know, because I wasted, I didn't get anywhere near fulfilling my ability. I mean, there are plenty of times in my mid to late 40s, when I sort of went from I-man to, you know, to ultra running, where I wondered if I'd actually taken that pathway when I was younger, because I love to run, I was, you know, represented my county across country running and, you know, could I have been, you know, a top world ultra running? I mean, as it is, I managed in my late 40s to get a couple of silver medals or second places in the Australian Elite 100K Road Championships, but that's probably something I wondered more than anything else if I'd been, if I'd knew what I knew now and I'd run at age 18, what could I have achieved, but I don't, well, it was just no point. It was just laid it back. So you gave me permission to ask you this question and so what was the catalytic moment in your early 30s that caused you to transition into that second life? Well, there's a catalytic moment, which actually wasn't necessarily a deliberate move or deliberate thought. It was actually something that happened that I, it was what I did with what happened. And I had got to the point where I'd look in the mirror and I didn't really like myself anymore because I told people I could have, but you know what I didn't. And it was actually worse, my realisation was very worse saying to people I could have because it meant you didn't or you didn't have the courage or you didn't have the conviction or you whatever. So better off not to say it. And I, a friend of mine, a good friend of mine that I work with said, "Hey, Jason, we're doing a, doing a, putting a team in for a corporate triathlon, you know, I want to do it." I've heard a triathlon, you know, I think I'm going to bike and run and maybe even swim. He said, "Yeah, it's really short." And I said, "All right, well, let's put the team in, who's in?" And so I went away and started to do some more running. It was only a 3K run, so I was going to blast that. And then I met up with him about four weeks later and he said, "Hey, how's the training going?" I said, "Yeah, it's been running. It's pretty good. You do the run leg for us pretty quick." He said, "Well, what do you mean the run leg, so you've got to do all of them?" "No." The color drained from my face and I was, I was mortified, you know, had that sinking feeling in my stomach. He looked at me and said, "What's the matter?" He said, "You can't swim, can you? I'm a car." So I could swim the width of a pool to save my life with my head out of the water kind of thrashing around. And I actually had a, as a result, you know, I had my deepest fear was, was drowning. And I just, I just knew in that moment, it was the moment that I knew that I could not take the easier road. I couldn't walk away from this. And I didn't know where it was going, but I knew that I needed to do this. And so I would go to swimming pool, I'd try and teach myself how to swim, force myself to put my head under water. You know, the first time I could only swim, you know, 225 meter laps, I did 50 meters. I'd sit in the swimming pool with my hands around the steering wheel for 15 minutes, trying to psych, not, psych myself to not start the weekend and go. And that time gradually came down and I realized then how important this was for me and my life and choosing to actually face my greatest fear and not, as opposed to the easier road. And it was then I developed this, you know, 90 day high, high performance template, which I've lived by for the last 25 years. And I knew what I really need to do was break that down to give myself the confidence that I wouldn't drown and I could do this. I'd like to come back to that template thing in a moment. The swimming piece, I can remember when my mum was 50 or coming up to 50. And this was a big significant day for her, you know, to turn 50 like she was worried about it. She didn't want to be 50, but she decided probably in a moment like yours that she was going to face her fears and she'd never swum, she, I was lucky, you know, I got to swim at school. And I don't swim for the team, but I love swimming and my mum used to take the swimming pool and I'd do lengths and I would bit to your mindset, I would go and see, I did 25 wits today, I'll see if I can do 30 today, I'll do 40, I'll see if I can swim a length, you know, and always trying to do a bit better in the time I had available. So I love swimming. And I think when I was younger, I had never fully appreciated how, how terrifying it must have been from a mum to learn swim, she, I think she told me that either somebody had tried to push her head under water, you know, when they were playing around as kids in the pool and, you know, as you do and holding her under and she was so fearful of water that she wouldn't even have a shower because she didn't like water on her hair. So she would sit and have a bath and she would gently run standing on a shower. So I never fully appreciated, at that time, just how big a task and a challenge this was for her. And I can remember when she was 50, she told me, she said, I've done it, I've done it, I've done it, I've done it today, I've swum a width. And I was doing triathlons then, I just just started to down, I said, you swum a width mum and I'm like, oh, you'd be able to do a triathlon soon and I perhaps was a bit off hand with my comments, when I look back now, I think, wow, at 50 to face that fear when it would have been easy to say, well, I don't need to swim, I'm not doing a triathlon, my friends haven't ended me for this event, I can carry on through my life as I have done without needing to swim, she, you know, she took the opposite path. And that... Brilliant. Stents of achievements as well, she was so much happier achieving 15 and she, sorry, being able to swim, then she was with just about anything else in her life that I remember, you know, because she'd done this, yeah, it's amazing. And that, look, that is exactly the same as any other fear or challenge that you face in life. You know, the growth has been almost exponential, the sense of, you know, the sense of pride, the sense of achievement and, you know, that's what happened for me. Well, you know, and I think my mum died of cancer when she was 59 and she had liver cancer. So when she was diagnosed, she knew that it was terminal. She had two liver resections where they take out the disease bit and then the liver will grow back and then they gave her liver transplant. But she, I remember her telling me that she, when she'd had a liver transplant, there was a young lad that, you know, 34 or so, you know, quite a bit younger than her. She'd been in there seven days and they said, "How are you feeling, Mrs. Warren?" She said, "I feel like I can go home now." Right? She'd got 60 staples in her stomach in this sort of like big crossover, a scar. And there was this kid next to her. He'd been in there before she got in and he was still less and, "Oh, no, I'm sorry. I can't go home." And she's saying, "Look, I'm twice your age. You need to get out of your bed and get on with stuff." And she used to say to me, "Mum, you're amazing." She said, "There's always somebody worse off." She said, "I can get up and walk out of here." And I thought, "Wow, you haven't got a long left to live, but you still have this mindset that there's stuff you can do." And she was out doing a charity walk while she stood all her staples in. She was helping people out, because she kept telling herself, "There's always somebody worse off. There's somebody who's not going to come out of that hospital and have a few weeks left of their life." And that's perspective and grouping, yes, so I'm the perspective and gratitude. And maybe she didn't define or articulate that, but that's obviously how she lives. So early on, you mentioned the four-second rule. Is that right? Yeah. Is that got anything to do with United Day Plan? Are they linked? Or is it easy to tell me about one first and then the other? No, one's a made one, and perhaps that also relates to that time when I face my first fears and the euphoria that I got over not drowning and actually doing okay in this thing. And then I had this period where I was so excited, I was on this incredible high over what I'd achieved, but I then had the downside of, "Well, what's next? I need more of this. I've got to do this." I suddenly, I'm sorry to go back to this, but this is super important. That's when I finally found my purpose. That's what changed my life and my purpose, and there was a big distinction between goals and purpose. Most people, I feel my experience is that what they do is they go set goals, but don't have a purpose. And so a purpose defines everything. So when the chips are down, when life's tough, when things go wrong, really badly wrong, your purpose will always define you. It will help you live longer, it will give you energy, it will give you resilience. So I found my purpose, my purpose was now I had faced my fear and achieved what I achieved to actually go find what I was capable of. Not so much where were my limits, but what could I do? The bigger the better. I was looking for something that would just go, "Wow, how on earth do I do that?" That would excite me, and that was a lie to my purpose. And so I was sitting on the couch watching the Hawaii Ironman on the White World Sports. So back then, it was kind of this bizarre event that was not like it is now, which is this, it's one of the blue ribbon endurance, legendary endurance events in the planet. And I watched this thing and I'm sitting on a cup of coffee and having a cigarette still. When you used to smoke indoors, can you believe that or on aeroplanes? And so I finished watching this now, most of the time, when I'm going to do that, that's now, I'm going to, that's my goal, is I'm going to qualify for the Hawaii Ironman Watch Championships, now, as you know, so the triathlon I just done, the distances were 15 to 17 times longer for each discipline, and I had no idea how I was going to do that. And that's when I really, that's when I implemented a 90 day high performance plan because I just wanted it so much, but I couldn't see how I could do it, but I was going to find a way. So let me, Jason, let me interrupt you there because wide world of sports seems to be responsible for a lot of people's goals. I think I may even have been in Australia, when I'd finished at university, I had a year out and travelled around Australia, which is when I was doing that hitchhiking thing, but I watched wide world of sports and the Ironman Hawaii Edition, I watched for Julie Moss crawl into the finish line. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I watched that. Crazy. Look at this. Swim, bike and run. And there you go. I like swimming. I like biking and I like running. I wonder if I could do that. I got to do that in 2017, and I met Julie, Julie was there and she, yeah, she saw my poster and everything. Yeah. We had a photograph taken. That's fantastic. But that was, that was my dream. That was what I wanted to do. And then while I was in, while I was in Sydney, I went and watched at Manly Beach and at some of the others, I went and watched the surf lifesaving competitions and I quite enjoyed watching those. And then I think they may have, they may have had, they may have had some triathlon that was in Australia at the time that I saw. So yeah, it was night, that was, that would have been 1986, '87 when I did that. So it wouldn't have been much before that when Julie Moss crawled across the line. But it was our dream all of those years to be there. And then I remember I actually went to work for an American company. I was a UK distributor for this product and they invited me, they were the official indoor bike trainer for Hawaii Ironman and so they invited me, "Oh, would you like to come out to Hawaii and work?" And I'm like, "Would I like to come to Hawaii?" Let me get, "Well, here's my four second rule." Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember going into, getting into Kona there and I'm walking along and I'm thinking, "This is a lead drive. This is where Julie Moss crawled across the line and seeing all those things, I was so excited. I thought I've got to come back." And I'd already started doing Ironman's then, but it was a bit longer before I got the opportunity to race there. So yeah, wide world of sports, I think. Yeah, and the episode that I watched was Chris Lee, who was an Australian athlete who was in third or fourth place. Is that when he had his stomach problems? Yeah. And he collapsed. Yeah. Yeah. Let me tell you, I'll tell you a funny story about how that one. We had our competition in a booth next to the Gatorade booth, right? And they were still sponsors for the Ironman. And they were sponsoring Chris Lee. And the commentator would say, "Chris Lee's coming now now," and he started to collapse. It was like a train crash, watching a train crash about to happen. But this video would play on a loop throughout the day. And so we'd hear this thing. And me and Phil, who was the Australian distributor, who doesn't live too far from you in Concord, we were in a bar later on, and Chris Lee was there. And Phil went up and he went, "Oh, Chris Lee, bloody train crash, waiting to happen." And we stood and laughed about it. Yeah. Chris Lee was one of our ambassadors at the time, so we got there quite well. See? There you go. What a small world. But that was, yeah, so that's a fabulous story. And that was why I man became aligned to my purpose. And then it was during that time that I developed four-second rule. And the four-second rule was to make decisions around discretionary effort. In other words, don't you do something with to make a decision in four seconds? And I guess, again, waking up in the morning, when it's cold and you're already tired and you've got to go train, you've got to go do a day's work and train again. I just learned that I gave myself four seconds to make a decision or move, one of the same thing, because then you don't dwell and that changed my life. Yeah. I mean, you talk about a lot of things that I would call high performance human habits. And habits and forming habits is something that we talked about with the psychologist a couple of weeks ago. I remember 20 years ago, my business partner at the time and I were running the Talent ID programme for British triathlon and we had to find these young kids that could swim and run and there was two kids that lived near us that were pretty good, called the Brownleys. And so we invited them along to join this group. And so I've known Alistair for quite a long time and we were at this, prior to the Olympics, we were all at this sponsors event where people could come along and ask Alistair and Johnny questions and some of the other athletes at racing as well. And somebody said to Alistair, how do you stay motivated to train? And Alistair said, I don't need motivation to train. Now, Alistair was 22, 23 then and he might have thought he's a cocky kid, you know, he's like, I don't need to be motivated. But what it meant was I've been swimming since I was six, most weekdays I'll get up as five and get my kit and I will go to the pool. It's just a habit that is so ingrained that it will be difficult for me to ever lose sight of and same with the bike, you know, the reason he has probably a training schedule now that's when he that was set when he was at school, because they would go running on a Tuesday night in a Saturday because that was where Malcolm, who was their run coach, had these sessions, they would go running, they would go cycling on their long ride on a Wednesday afternoon because that was when they had the afternoon off school and so that fitted into their schedule and it's just, you know, it became almost became the whole performance squady leads timetable based on those early days. And so, and this woman said, yeah, but I feel like I need to be motivated and he said, but if you do something long enough, so you build the habit, you don't need the motivation anymore. Motivation is what gets you started, the rocky video, the Julie Moss crawl in the Chris Lee thing. That's what gives you the inspiration to do something and then maybe you need to put that on a few times a week to watch it to get you out the door. But after a while, and I, you know, Josie Perry says, 66 days to get a habit so ingrained that it becomes, it sticks when you're under pressure. So when the weather's rubbish outside, you've been doing it for so long that that's it. You don't even think about it. You just get your own issues on and you go out the door. So building habits, yeah, absolutely, which is to be truly successful, you must first do what you don't want to do when you don't want to do it until you do. Yeah. And it takes 66 days. So nearly 10 weeks to build that. So you've got to at least stick to it, yeah, for a while. Of course, the challenge, you know, the challenge for people midlife, 25, 35, 45, 50, as opposed to, you know, the brown leaves that started at six. And it is your life and is the habit is, you know, you have 20, 30, 40, 50 years of life and habit that may well be the exact opposite. So you need that spark of inspiration. And that's why I always, you know, people I often, you know, every single day I get people ask me a whole bunch of things. How do I cheat my goals and when ever I hear that, I go, what, what, now Simon, what's your purpose? Well, if you do it, why are you doing this, what? Not because you want to run a marathon, but why? Why do you want to do that? When you probably make you feel you probably read Simon Sinex book, haven't you? What's your why? He talks about that. Yeah. And in business, it's the same thing, you know, I've had a corporate career, I've been a CEO, and, you know, it took me all, but at that defining time for me, you know, I in turn 35 and I found my purpose, you know, I applied that to everything and I applied my high performance template to everything, you know, you kind of, there is no separation. And you know, it's a sort of perpetual motion. When they look at the blue zones, you've probably heard of those, the areas of the world, where there's a sort of, yeah, a higher than normal proportion of centenarians there. One of the key things that comes across with all of those is the sense of purpose, isn't there? There's communities well, but this purpose, you know, whether it's, whether it's looking after the grandkids being still involved in the community. So most of the, that's an important thing for me is most of those communities, the older folks are not just packaged off to putting a nursing home and forgotten, they're still engaged and they, you know, yes, they're ready-made babysitters, but fine because they love looking after the grandchildren or the great-grandchildren, that might be their purpose, tending to a, tending to a garden, you know, helping other people in their little village, you know, but there's a purpose. So every morning, there's some reason to wake up and get up and get moving. Absolutely. And the purpose is defining and it's, you know, it's virtually, it's more important than you. And, you know, with that, if the sense of purpose, if your purpose is your community, you know, it's compassion, it's love, it's care, it's a whole bunch of other super positive things and, and you look after people, so yeah, purpose, you know, obviously a balanced, really healthy diet, you know, is one of the others. It's movement, as you know, well-known, whether it's deliberate via exercise or whether it's, you know, you're getting cropped from the fields and, you know, or you constantly crouching down or you sit on the floor or a whole bunch of things, you know, you round it, you know, you know, rounding a catalog or whatever, there's some, there's some activity that actually is, might be, you know, incidental exercise. Tell me about your 90-day plan. I want to dive into that a little bit more. What's, what's the purpose of the 90 days? Is it like I have to, this, this habit has to be formed in 90 days or is it, is it something else? So, the principle of a 90-day high performance plan is not to waste a day and to be really clear. And you know, whereas we sort of talked about, and you said before, you know, how many people kind of, they just go through life, you know, like life's busy, you've got family, you've got work, you're going to pay the bills, and kind of one day, you know, you're so busy being busy that you don't stand back from it and you don't make the most of them until one day you go, wow, where do that all go and can I have a back, no, sorry, come on. So this is, this, for me, was the concept was, I want to, you know, I want to, I'm going to qualify for the way I remember our championships. I've only just managed to swim 300 metres, I've got to multiply that by 17. Actually, I've actually got to qualify for an I-man, race an I-man, and go fast enough in my age group in the world to get to Hawaii. So I set the goal and said, I'm going to, you know, five years, I give myself, my goal is five years. So obviously, that's about 1800 days, it's pretty easy to get lost. And you need a road map, a road map that is really clear about what you need to do every day. And then really what you have to do is get up and do exactly what you know you need to do, and you can almost forget until times are tough, or difficult, you can almost forget the goal. Because you just go, you know what, it doesn't become debilitating, actually, you know, because you create the confidence because you set a whole bunch of milestones along the way at 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, a year, two years, and then you just get up each day and you know, you're going to get to the end barring something, you know, calamitous, but even then you may still get there. But for me, it was about creating confidence and clarity about what I need to do today or tomorrow. And be prepared for that, just get up and do it, and I would get there. So, 90-day plans basically have an overarching objective, now the objective may be a goal, you know, or improving a skill or doing something. And typically, it might be a year, two, three, four, five, six, ten years away, it applies the same to career, business, anything that you want to be your best at some stage and achieve a feat that for you is remarkable. Don't matter about anybody else, all the matter is it's remarkable for you. And so, it allows you to become really focused and set milestones. So, it has an objective, and then you have some measurable, it's a metric, some measurable things in 30, 60, and 90 days, and then you have a few clear in the column of actions, you have what it is that you need to do. I've got some examples in my book, but for me, that was about breaking you down, in essence, what I did, the plan that was I went, I'll just on this little sprint travel and I didn't die, I went OK, all right, I'm going to work backwards, 12 months, here's the Australian Ironman, five months before that is a half Ironman, so I need to put maybe a slightly longer distance triathlon in the shorter term, then I do an Olympic, and then I do the half, and then I do the full, right, OK, so then I literally broke that down into 30, 60, and 90-day measurements of high performance and success, milestones, and I just put what I needed to do, and I just followed it, and I just keep following it, and in my personal life, and in business, I just kept following a 90-day high performance plan, the upgrades, and then just get up and do what it is you say you're going to do. Yeah, that's very, very similar to how I would build a program for somebody, it's like, "OK, you've got this long focus here of getting to the IMO World Championship, so let's just park that, it's a soft focus now, it's in the distance," and now let's work backwards, so we start at the end and go backwards, what are the skills that we need, and the performance levels that we need to be able to do this, you're probably going to, you know, if it is age, you're probably going to need to be out of swim an hour, what are you doing now, OK, so what's going to prevent you from doing that, well there's some technique work, there's this and that, and what are you going to need to do on the bike, right, where are you in that now, you know, and blah, blah, blah, and then what are the other things we're going to need to do, it's not just about the training, we're going to need to find some space in your life to do this training, to achieve that goal, you're going to need to be training 15 hours a week, so how are we going to find that 15 hours, you know, because you're building a house, you're building a business, and you've just had your third child, maybe now's not the right time or are you going to have to go some sleep, or maybe there's some other stuff like going to the pub and socializing, you know, you can only do so many things and it might be, you might be familiar with that whole, you know, putting the big rocks in the jar first before you put all the little bits of rubbish in there, yeah, but you have this long plan and another guest of mine who I don't know, you may be familiar with Gordo Byrne, have you heard of Gordo, yeah, so Gordo has a Gordo has his thousand day plans, he's slightly different to you and he's saying, if you have a thousand day plan, sometimes what you do today or tomorrow isn't quite as important, so when you miss training session because you have to go and take your little girl to the hospital rather than get upset about it, he's like, okay, I can do it tomorrow because I've got a thousand day plan, but I'm still focused on getting there, so it's a slightly different way of looking at things, but I mean, Gordo's probably, you know, in the same way as you, he's got that high performance mindset, so I appreciate both principles, but starting at the end and then breaking it down into, okay, so in the short term, what do we need to achieve, well, you know, you need to learn to swim first, let's just do that one first, whether you can swim 2.4 miles in an ocean without a wet sweat. Yeah, absolutely, and that is, you know, I think, I mean, as you know, that thought is debilitating, or, you know, that can be such a barrier that actually, you kind of people go, let's just do it, I don't know how I'm going to do that, and in everything you do, finding confidence and creating is essential to creating an unlimited mindset, and people mistake confidence for all sorts of things, arrogance, whatever, but it is a self, it is, you know, it's a deep self belief that it's only important to you, and that's a way of structuring it, so because I, you know, my business or business or anything else before that, there will be things I really want to do, but I just couldn't say I could do it. If I could comprehend how I could do them, and the more you do that, the more you understand in any aspect of your life how you can achieve things that you thought were impossible. So you and I, we've got a different construct or a different framework, it's exactly the same principle. You, in your place for posts that I originally saw, you talked about the two important things that were important, were nutrition and mindset, we talked a lot about our mindset is let's talk about nutrition, because I know there'll be people looking at our photograph will say, how's that guy got down to that level of leanness and muscularity at 60, you know, it's impossible to lose all of that body fat when you 60 so talk us through so with the changes that you made to your nutrition and go as you were going on. I just, a couple of points there, so I've been, so one of, you know, these are relevance in terms of fears. I mean, I've had a really busy corporate career, but I have a very private life. I don't do social, but I could do LinkedIn because it's business. Nothing personal, don't post anything, never been here social media. And so for me, in writing my book and doing that, and then putting a picture of myself like, you know, a pair of shorts on the beach, that was a fear. You know, that for me, putting myself out there like that was really challenging. So what I love is getting to 60 and facing fears and going, you know what, yeah, sod it. I can do good. I'm just going to do this. So that's a very relevant point. The other is, I've got to tell you this that, you know, my partner said, when we were actually doing this, she said, you know what, I reckon stick a picture up of you with, you know, the least amount of clothing on people, I look at it, you'll get their attention. I can't, I can't do that. And funny enough, I do post that in different forums and it overwhelmingly, you know, gets twice as much three times, four times as much attention. But also on the other point that you made early assignment around, you know, kind of the doubters and not being facing your fear and going, you know what, I'm not going to let a few people that have a totally different agenda sidetrack me from helping a thousand people or inspiring a thousand people. You know, I put one up there. When I, when I first started, they got a lot of people, they come back and they go, Oh, yeah, T.I.T. What do you take and blah, blah, blah, blah. So again, to your point, you know, people have this disbelief that, you know, you can do something without artificial enhancements and we can. Well, you've got a full head of hair and you've got a lean body, right? You're not 60. There must be stuff you're doing. Yeah. Well, people say the same, but I'm 60 as well. Yeah, I've still got a full head of hair as well. So I've been sitting here thinking about that about you the whole time. Have you been, you've been admiring my hair, have you? I had the thing when I think last night. So yeah, so to go back to your point, I've read a few books I've read in my life have had great influence on me and born to run was one of them in terms of, you know, the philosophy of, you know, the mechanics of running and particularly diet. And the other one was the encounters, there's confessions of an all night runner, which was when I read about Western states and when, yeah, I've got to do that like that scares me. I'm going to just do that. It's going to be my first trial race. So have you got, have you got to the point where you've been ringing up from a junction in the middle of the desert asking for a pizza to be delivered? No, no, no, no. But you know what, I mean, like people say, you know, there's lots of views on, you know, how are you wrote his book? And obviously it wasn't the greatest ultra run in the world. But you know what, he single handedly changed ultra running and he, he created the biggest, you know, increased in a amount of interest to participants in ultra running. But don't you really dislike that, that whole thing about, yeah, but he's not a good ultra runner, but he, he wrote, no, he's a good ultra runner, but he's not like, he's not set in the world on fire and right in winning these big things, but he's bringing something to people's attention to the wider masses. There's, I'll, I'll, there's a another book that's like that that's that was written by somebody. I can't remember it now. But anyway, it's like he was written by somebody that brought any event or something to people's attention that it wouldn't normally have done, but it wasn't written by a superstar in the sport. Yeah. And I'll probably think of it as we're going along and in some ways, you know, David Goggins is similar, you know, like I, you know, I raced David in my first trail race, you know, I was 50 minutes within 50 minutes in my first 100 mile trail race and I reckon I'm sure I went faster in Ironman and I was a lot older, but you know, he, he, he captured the hearts and minds and changed life and inspires so many people. And sometimes that's what you got to do. I keep going back to that when I write stuff and I go, oh, it's not me actually right. I'm putting myself out there and I'm going, you know, you're right and this is all about you and whatever and I have to go, no, no, no, no, no. It's similar to that. I'm doing this because if I can change a thousand people's lives or 2,000 or 5,000, is there a greater thing that I could possibly do? So yeah, I, I, I've been accused of that as well before when I put posts on Facebook and people say, oh, you know, you're just promoting your podcast. Yeah, I'm, I'm going to put your, I'm going to put some stuff on about me and you chatting Jason and I know people say, what on earth has got to do with this or that? And the other, if you listen to the, if you listen to this conversation, which is going to be, you know, 90 minutes, if you can't pick out half a dozen hugely important life lessons from that from what, what we both said, then, you know, you need to go back and listen again. And I feel like there are so many people like you that most people haven't heard of that have inspiring stories of achieving things and finding a way of doing it and coming up with a system that it's important to share those stories so that people hear them and there'll be some people that think, I don't like that Simon Ward or I don't like that Jason and that's fine. You know, you'll find somebody that you do like, I'm not interested in finding in appealing to everybody. But I do feel like every time I put a podcast out, I'm looking for a guest whose lessons I can share that are going to help people and whenever I write an article, it's not about me. I might, I might write a story about, you know, like Dean Callan, as I said, when he was sat in his Lexus and the front seat folded up against the window and he got cramped and he couldn't get in the seat. Yeah, the winners are all Steve, but he couldn't get out. And you're laughing and thinking, that's funny, but actually now you're drawn into his story. And then it shares a lesson if you can pick out that lesson. And so that's, that's why I think it's, you have to talk about yourself a little bit in order to tell a story to share a lesson. And I think that's what people are missing they're thinking, it's just about Jason bigging himself up here. No, you're sharing a lesson that's based on a story, you know, like the monitor is the thing, but that's more of our overcoming your fears and enjoy nature. And so just what I, because I'm not, I'll, I'll forget, just go back to your question. Sorry. The, in terms of the importance of diet. And so I read, so born to run was a great influence for me. And, you know, I was aging. I sort of went from Ironman into ultra running at 42, maybe 43. And because I knew, you know, I was going to be a better runner than even though I was older, I was going to be a better runner, more competitive than I was as a triathlete or an Ironman. And so I started, I would want to see how far I could run. I set myself a goal of, you know, I'm going to run in the National 100K Road Championships. You know, can I run 100Ks and I'll stop at a decent rate without walking. And so I sort of started to run twice a day. And, you know, finally, you know, because throughout my life, I've managed two or three hours of commuting until kind of I went into ultra running, you know, at least that a day on top of everything else. But find I could actually run to work. In fact, I was so close, I had to run past work every morning and every night and then run back past work and go home. So I wanted to see how competitive I could be at running. And so I did that. And I wanted to find, you know, ways that I could be mentally, physically, you know, spiritually better so that I could be, I could achieve what it was that I wanted to achieve. And so, you know, the big, once I raced to Hawaii, I did a couple of other Ironman races. But when you know what I need, I need to go back to my purpose, which is what is it that you're capable of. And so I set myself a couple of, you know, within about a year, my next big goal was to qualify for the Elite 100K World Road Running Championships. I was aging. And, you know, again, I hadn't been running constantly since I was 20. And I was playing catch up whilst I was aging. So I read a lot and thought, you know what, how could I stop eating animals? For me, fundamentally, and the more you watch about how inhumane the treatment is of animals that, you know, we grow and the impact that has on the world and the world's water and so on. I went, you know what, this just makes sense. And so I decided I would go vegetarian with a little bit of fish. And within four days, my whole body changed. My whole digestive system changed. And, you know, the things that I've learned since then is, you know, you're the health of your gut is your health. And, you know, it's your second brain, but it is your health. And you can actually change, you can change your genes with a bunch of things, including diet. And so I did that. And it was pretty challenging to start with. But then you kind of learn how do you, how do you prepare meals that are actually really tasty and kind of get to the point where, you know, you just look at a piece of meat and you just cannot conceive of eating it for whatever reason you just. And I was brought up, you know, in the UK, meat and two vegetables, I'd always leave the two veggies. I'd have the potatoes and the meat. And my mum would berate me and said I couldn't get down from the dinner table. So I ate them on a protest. But then once I had a choice, I stopped eating vegetables. I just didn't eat them. So I was going to go vegetarian from not eating vegetables. I wouldn't need a salad that would bore the, bore the pants of me. So so I did that. And the change was so significant. That's what, you know, to be truly successful, you've got to first do what is you don't want to do when you don't want to do it until you do have it faced, you know, the psychology of it. I did. And then it just just became the habit. And then I read a whole bunch more. And then I thought, you know what, I'm just going to try and cut everything animal out. So I'm going to go vegan, which is the next which is the next big challenge. But I've got to tell you your that apart from the, you know, the health, the goodness of actually what you're eating and how it changes your digestive system, how good it is for your gut recovery from exercise. When you eat mainly clamps, it's remarkable. Your body recovers so much quicker. It is remarkable. And I think that the final proof of that for me, and so sorry, you know, it's not just your body, it's a brain, you know, in terms of fueling your brain and not creating, you know, you know, mood swings all day, which I did because I loved eating chocolate and sweet stuff and I could gorge on that. Yeah, many, many years ago, your body heals. It's remarkable how much per view body heals. Now I'll give you a case in point about six years ago, which Touchwood was my last really bad accident where I, you know, I hadn't been riding a bike. I wouldn't have bought a really expensive barcode. You know, I just for fun occasions, going to ride to work. It's only three or four Ks over the Harvard Ridge. Pretty nice around the Harvard on bike pass. So I bought, I bought this bike and within 10 days, traveling down a bike lane in the city, going downhill about 40 kilometers now, there's a row of cars along one side and a truck turned across without indicating or looking. And out, I just literally had time to hit my brakes. So I went over the top and which is, which was sort of saved me partially, broke my helmet into, tore all my face up and I had 10 rib brakes. So all my ribs on front and back on one side were all broken. And I'd had broken ribs before, but I'd never had 10 breaks in one go. So that was pretty, pretty tough. And in terms of what you can and can't do in resilience, they released me from hospital four days later. And on the fifth day, there was an important transaction going on. I was going to work with 10 broken ribs five days later. Anyway, the point of that story is my face within six days had healed. You could, you couldn't tell it was anything that had happened to my face. So the healing process from eating predominantly plants is remarkable. And I'm in, if nothing, one of the key points, you know, your, the foundation of an amazingly healthy life and mindset is gratitude and what you eat. So, well, I mean, and did just do that, that'll be a success. I mean, you've mentioned a lot of stuff today, but, and I'm going to go and encapsulate all this in the show notes. I've got, I've got quite a long few pages of notes here and bullet points. But actually, it is quite simple, isn't it, to lead a fulfilling and productive life? You know, it's purpose and mission. It's about movement and nutrition, about community is back to those principles of the, the blue zones. And, you know, as a coach, I get, I get a bit frustrated these days, because it seems like everybody feels like they need to make things more complex. I see new coaches coming along into the sport. And they're like, if I make this program more complex, then that's going to make me look really good. Actually, when I speak to the, when I speak to the elite coaches who've been around for years and who've helped sort of build and maintain multiple world champions, they're really simple. They'll give you a training program that's handwritten on a sheet of A4 and it's like, just do this. Yeah. But what do I do next week? Just do that again. Yeah, but what do I do next month? We'll just keep doing that. Well, what about next year? Well, we'll just keep doing that, but maybe we'll add a little bit more to make it a bit harder. Well, is that as simple as it is? Yeah. Because it's about embracing monotony. And I think another, another guest said to me once, when I asked him what makes world champions, he said the ability to embrace monotony, you know, just repeat things again and again and again until you get better. You know, and then it's, it's mastery of the processes and it's all about, and this is the thing that I really like about daily living, rather than focusing on the long term, is it's about embracing the process. You know, what can I do today to make my nutrition better than I did yesterday? Yeah. And what is it that I can do to make my sleep a bit better and just become a better at that? Never mind about what the outcomes going to be, because if you do all the right things on a daily basis, the outputs, the outcome will take care of itself, aren't it? Exactly. So life, you know, goals, business, it's inputs. What you and my favourite kind of philosophy is you only ever get today, tomorrow never comes, you only ever get today, you've got to live it, you've got to change what you need to change, you've got to decide where you're going to stop, start, accelerate, you only ever get today. And that if, again, if people can, you know, capture that and embrace that, because you can't, you can't live yesterday, you can't live tomorrow, you can only live today. And I think, so this is really, really important. And I don't know why I haven't spoken about this, but one of the great lessons I learned, but I encourage trying instill in others all the time is to be present, because you only ever get the moment, you know, life goes quickly, live in it. And so the appreciation of going for walking the woods and hearing the birds and hopefully not coming up against bloody great big wizards, you know, it's, it's just being present in the moment, because the moment is all you have. There is one thing though, there is one thing that Jason, if you'd been wandering along like a lot of people these days with your phone on your hand looking at that or the latest post on Facebook, you might have walked straight into that lizard's mouth, or just just walk past him and never seen him. Yeah, I know, yeah, well, that's true. Absolutely. And that's what happens is, you know, we're all, you know, we're all guilty of that and I spend a lot of time nowadays on social media, because I just just want to help so many people. You have to, it goes so quickly and for your self or your family, like, to do good, you've got to be present, because the moment is all you get. And life actually slows down. When you become present, it slows down. And the all I found again, the older you get, you know, you're never going to get a day back and the days add up and they go quickly. So bloody enjoy today. So what you got? I don't know if you ever come across an internet marketing guy from America called Dan Kennedy. He's a lot of his books are the no bullshit series N.O.B.S. and he wrote a book called N.O.B.T.T. time management, right? And he has the time vampires and he said, but you know, when you start to work out how many days you've got left, right, if you live to the average age, and that's so and so. He said, you know, these are the amount of days I've got left. I've got these men this many weekends. I've got this many holidays, this many Christmases. It brings things into very sharp focus that that clock's ticking down. And you don't want to be wasting it by talking to somebody who's got a meaning this point or you're not interested in or they're just going to take the time of talking about rubbish is make sure you and you know, to that point, you could spend half an hour on Facebook or you could spend half an hour chatting with your children or your grandchildren or catching up with an old friend, couldn't you? What's most important to you? Yeah, absolutely. And that is, yeah, that's and if you and again, sorry, again, no thoughts just coming to my head. We're probably getting close to the end, but I'm loving it so much. The other big change for me was the realization I talk about the armchair test, which is your legacy and talk about owning your legacy before your legacy owns you. And I got this, yeah, I was pretty unhappy with myself, didn't like to look in the mirror any time was ticking, had taken shortcuts. And I thought to myself, I had this principle of, you know, when you don't sweat the small stuff, create perspective and don't waste your life. And I sat down and thought, how am I going to feel when I'm 60 or 65 sitting in my armchair, reflecting on life? And I got this, the kind of epiphany had come to me because I worked in financial services and you see a lot of people are retired. And there's a lot of people are retired who live with deep regret and depressed because they can't change and they know they should have done things differently. And so I mentioned what my legacy would be and I didn't like it. And so I kind of came up with an armchair test, which is, you know, how do you want to feel? What would you like to think? What are the five key things when you, you know, when you get to 60, you look back and you're going to be, you know, you're going to be proud because you live by those. I've just recently done, just last year, I think 60. You know, when I did it, I couldn't take any of them, but I can take all of them now. And it is the most wonderful feeling. And so for any words, you know, listening, watching, if you, you know, if you really want to own your legacy and not wait for it to own you, write down what you want your legacy to be when you're 60 or 65 or 70. There's a really powerful book that I read a few years ago called The Five Regrets of the Dying. You read that book? I haven't. Oh, I will. I would recommend it. It's things like, I wish I'd had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me. I wish I hadn't spent so much, you know, work so hard as in, you know, just spent all those hours in the office. I wish I'd had the courage to express my feelings. I wish I'd stayed in touch with friends. I wish I'd let myself be happier. You know, so that, that's thing we talked about earlier about celebrate. I'm instead of looking like, you know, like I've got the cat that's got the cream and everybody going to look at, look at Jason, you know, he showed off again because he's done an Ironman actually having the courage to celebrate that and be happy, be happy with that. Yeah. And when you read that and then so this, this lady who wrote it was a, she was a private relative care nurse, so she would get employed by families who would, we'd like you to look after grandma and she would go live with grandma through those last months of her life. And grandma, she'd get to know grandma and grandma would tell us stories about, you know, I was, my family wanted me to marry this man because it was good for the family. I didn't really love him, but we spent 20 years together and we had children, but I was never truly happy. I wish I'd, you know, I wanted to be a writer. I wish I'd pursued my passion rather than let my family direct me down this path. And when you, when you read these stories, they're so sad about these regrets, but it definitely makes you think about, well, you know, it's only five lessons, but we could probably all tick at least three of the boxes of how we've allowed life to guide us instead of us to guide our life. Absolutely. And, you know, that is, you know, one of the key takeaways from today, I would hope, is, you know, write down the five key things, you know, around what you want your legacy to be and go changing before it's too late. Jason, you talked earlier about movement and you look like you've got an impressive physique there. So what's what does your daily movement look like? Is it, is it, do you have a mobility practice in the morning? And also, are you lifting weights at all? Because we know that as we get older, the body strength and muscle mass is declining to keep, to keep a resilient frame to do all of that other stuff you're doing you. Yeah. And it helps to have a good body work, right, to support the engine. It does. And look, I'll probably slow down the last, like the last serious race I had was at 58, I was trying to break the Australian call time, 12 hour record. I came really, really close, so close. But I did have a new operation to, I had like a large flap from meant my medial meniscus, which they reckon tore away 15 years ago. So I was running 150, 250 car a week on a tour meniscus for 13 years. And I, you know, even when I ran the Western state, I had new issues. So I'm sort of recuperating from that. I still, you know, I run, I hardly run these days. I like around 50 or 60 car a week. So for now, we normalize, funny how we normalize stuff, right? Because 50 or 60 K still are running. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, that's a lot less than 250. But during all that times, a couple of really key things. One is, it's really hard to do anything. So two, two things, strength and flexibility, as you know. And so flexibility, and I've always kind of got the tissue massages, but I've learned more and more. I don't do Pilates, but I have a couple of fantastic different-sized rolling balls. And I've got a sort of slightly softer outer layer, you know, about a millimeter. And with a couple of those, you can roll every single muscle in your body. And so I do that a lot with my back, with my spine, you know, pretty much everywhere. So I constantly roll. I don't stretch, I roll. And the other is strength. So I have always, with my kind of 20 hours a week of, you know, running and biking and et cetera, I've always invested about five hours a week of strength and resistance and core. The only time I've ever been to a gym in my life was when I was running on a treadmill for three or four hours in an altitude chamber to train for a crazy race over the Himalayas, which ran over the three highest mountain passes in the world. And I lived at sea level, and we were running at 18 plus thousand feet. But I've never been to a gym. I mean, I'm old school, because I'm old. And you know, you can do everything, you know, with a piece of elastic resistance or on the floor, you know, doing a whole bunch of core exercise. There's yours. And you can, so you can do that. I've got some free weights. You know, I've always done a lot of, you know, one-legged squats, you know, because that is the best way to improve balance for me as well, one of the best ways. But yeah, they're just, interestingly, it costs nothing, which is why I love it. Not only is it cost nothing, you know, it doesn't cause any, you actually don't have to go anywhere. So you don't have to waste time. And the time is valuable. You've got to maximize it. So sometimes I kind of do that in the lounge room when I wall, I'm watching something on the TV or whatever. But you know, you can insert half an hour quickly here or half an hour there, normally sort of do an hour. And it's pretty intense. Like I just move for an hour and I, you know, do resistance and I do core. Yeah, I don't got to push in huge weights. So the gym, you've got to, but strength as you say, it was critical. Right down to my right hand side, I've got a range of kettlebells. So typically in the morning, typically, typically in the morning, I'm up, put the coffee on, do my stretching for 15 minutes. Like, I, you know, I'm like you, I haven't had quite as many hospitalizations, but I've had three, three minuscule tears. I've had arthritis on those. I rupture my ACL skiing in February. So I'm just dealing with that. How are you going with that now? It's not too bad, but you know, it's another, I learnt ski when I was 53. I've never skied on my friend's ski. I said, I want to ski. You know, most people say you shouldn't, you shouldn't be learning ski at 53. And we're like, well, that's everybody else, not me. And so I learnt to ski. I love the skiing. But I just, it was a bad, it was a bad day for skiing. And I just got caught in some snow and had a nasty fall. But it's not too bad. We were gravel riding over the last three days and I was trying to ride through a puddle that I couldn't tell how deep it was. And I, as I had to pull my foot out of the pedal and put it down quickly, my leg gave away a little bit. So it does remind me every now and again that it's not completely stable yet. So, but you know, I could have regrets about damaging myself and, you know, breaking my collarbone. But I like going downhill fast when I'm cycling. And one of the consequences occasionally of that is that if somebody goes wrong, it's going to hurt a little bit more. So I'm probably a bit more mindful now than I was a few years ago, but still, you know, back to your normalization. And 90k descent down the stealthy or 60k, still going to have nasty consequences. So I am mindful of the sort of those things. But, you know, I like you can't, you can't, you can't give them up and you can't live your life in fear of them. No. Jason, I love that phrase, by the way, I'm old school because I'm old. That's great. You should have some T-shirts done with that. Yeah. Well, I've got a few, I've got a few other ones. I think they're probably one of the most popular ones that there's never a day that goes past that someone doesn't comment on which is, you know, keep smiling and smiling. Yes. So one of my others, but you know, I won't bore you for you. Well, we've talked about Ironman a bit and we had two really good female Ironman triathletes who were very successful. Chrissy Wellington, of course, one Hawaii four times. She was always smiling. Wow. And there was another girl who you may or may not have heard of called Lucy Gossage. Lucy, I know very well, Lucy 113 or 14 Ironman titles throughout her life. And she, she's always smiling. So you ever see a photograph of Lucy, she's smiling and she's happy. She did it. I don't know if you've heard of an event in the UK. It's a crazy event. There's two events, but the harder version, by sure, is the winter spine race. It goes at the Penn Iron way. It's too much. Yeah, I have. Yeah, that's it. I mean, it's a crazy crazy event. Lucy came third this year, but, and I spoke to her on the podcast and she's stories about waking nightmares and running the wrong way at the trail, even though, you know, she couldn't work out what was happening and hallucinations, but even then every photograph that you've seen taken by a friend, she's smiling. Yeah. Well, yeah, and that, absolutely. And you, you know, the first to admit that, you know, I spent a lot of my life not smiling. So you can change everything, anything and everything. Well, that's a good place to end. You can change anything and everything. Jason Dunn, it's been fabulous having you on the show. I feel like there's a lot more left in this conversation that we'll have. We're going to have to get you back on to talk about something, something a bit different. Maybe we can talk about nutrition and the gut microbiome and all of that vegetarian stuff. There's probably a lot more to pick on with that. I'd love to. This has been a wonderful time. Thank you. We will put links to your social media and your book in the show notes, but just tell, give us your elevator pitch. And I'm sure you've practiced on this for your book. So people know what's coming when they look at the show notes. Okay. And it's not, and it's, and it's not the birds all around right. It's got a thousand floors. So the elevator is going to move quickly. Yeah. So, you know, unlimited, the art of being limitless is my kind of humble story of overcoming things I never thought I could overcome and achieving things that I thought were impossible. And hopefully, that will help anyone listening to go find something that will enable them to go after their limitless life and achieve, achieve whatever it is that they set their heart on. So, yeah. I'm going to put, I'm going to put a link to that Facebook post you did so people can see what it was that made me think, I need to get this guy on the show to find out his story. Because it's an impressive photo, you know, you look very happy, stood there in the sunshine on one day beach as we all would. Thank you. So, Jason, listen, thank you for sharing that story with today. It's been a fantastic, enjoyable conversation. I do hope we can resume at some point in the future and get you back on here. Thank you. I've loved every minute. Thank you. Thanks, Simon. Thank you so much to Jason once again for being my guest on the show this week. You know, I speak a lot about focusing on process and mastery. So I love Jason's quote where he said, "To be truly successful, you need to do what you want to do, when you don't want to do it, until you do." Now, you may need to think about that again, so please feel free to rewind, maybe write it down and truly break it down until you understand what it means. The essence, I think, is we have to build habits and I think we talked about the fact that it takes about 10 weeks for those habits to really stick. So, be prepared if you don't like getting up in a dark morning to go swimming to have to do that for about 10 weeks until you can do it without thinking about it. Now, I made a lot of notes during the podcast and I've turned all those into links around a lot of the topics we talked about. So, you can find those in the show notes and you can also find links to my free daily mobility plan there as well. So, please look out for that. To make sure you don't miss any other episodes in the future, please go to iTunes, search for high performance human travel podcast and then click the subscribe button. And if you could share this episode with just one person you think of benefit, that'd be awesome. And, if you've got a couple more minutes once you've finished, perhaps you could leave me review on your chosen platform. That's all for this week. As always, I will have another great guest in seven days' time and I hope you'll be able to join me. Until then, have a great week and happy training.
