[Music] Hey, what's going on? This is Beers and Banner. I'm Shane, hanging out with Fox. Oh, hang on. I'm supposed to introduce Beers and Banner. Yeah, I kind of threw a curveball, so you were a bit proffified. Welcome to Beers and Banner. This is a hobby home. It's podcast where as you, something, normally we talk about things, but instead we're drinking. And I'm still in the void. Did you still in the void? I'm still in the void. Churchy is here, though. Yeah, yeah. No one actually asked Churchy this time. What, what? No one asked Churchy this time. About what? Yeah, I just spoke up. Yeah, I just spoke up. You know what? I just don't want it now. Sometimes not everyone's going to ask you. Sometimes you just got to speak up. Yeah, you got to put your foot down. You just put your foot down. Yeah. Let's speak up. Yeah. Churchy, what's your favourite thing? [LAUGHTER] What do you like? What do you like? [LAUGHTER] What, what do you, what do you... Yeah, well, it's, it's... Music's pretty cool. Yeah, music. Video games are pretty cool. What do you like about music? [LAUGHTER] Playing it. [LAUGHTER] Listening to music. [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] I'm going to put this down. I'm going to put this down. Crocs, I want to know. [LAUGHTER] Make myself laugh too much. [LAUGHTER] You always know you've got a good joke when you make yourself laugh. Yeah, apparently I'm the funniest person I've ever gotten to make. [LAUGHTER] Fox, I want to know, right? Yeah. One of the YouTube hobby staples, good old Uncle Adam. All right. Yeah, my man. Yeah, he's a good bloke. Yeah. He pitched a video a couple weeks ago by now about wargaming rules that, or mechanics, I should say, that need to go. And he had some good points. OK. Yeah. I want to know. I want to know one rule or end or mechanic that you like and dislike. OK. So one I want to keep and one I want to throw away. Sure. One I want to throw away, mechanic, is-- I don't know how to say this intellectually. But I want to throw away the modifying dice to a point where it's all re-rolling once. OK. I'm not targeting any games workshop games specifically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I just want to kind of do away with-- dice modifying is interesting. But it's kind of the norm in our go-to and our only way of making a game dynamic. With using D6s. With using D6s, great. Yeah. And I just want to do away with that. I feel like that should be something that's rare. I want to kind of transition, if it were up to me. I would transition just like that being a knee-jerk reaction for game designers into making maybe more interesting asymmetrical rules. Sure. I don't know what that looks like. But instead of maybe saying like, oh, this thing's good at shooting, it gets a plus one to its to hit roll. Maybe this thing is good at shooting. So it doesn't have to roll a dice if it's within X. Oh, yeah. Or maybe it uses this ability in a turn. And then for its second action, it just hits for free or something. So yeah, I would do away with, I guess, excessive hit modifiers. Yeah. Yeah. And what I would keep-- my favorite game is Star Wars Shadow Point. And the thing that I would keep is the way that it does dynamic objectives. OK. Yeah. Because I find some objectives-- we're going to do an episode on this at some point. But I find some objectives and scenarios for games so bland. Yeah. Yeah. So bland. It's like, OK, let's do the same thing that other game did where we have to take this thing, which is a token. And then if I die, I drop the token and you could pick it up. And whoever has the most tokens at the end wins. Or let's put areas on the table. And if you sit in that area, you get points at the end of every turn. And whoever has the most things sitting in that area gets the points. So why am I even there? Yeah, it's like, I've played this game. I've literally never played this game. And I've played this game. Yeah. Yeah. And so I really want to keep Star Wars Shadow Point's dynamic objectives where they change every turn. And when things are wounded, they lose abilities to score that. Yeah, I just want to keep that aspect. Yeah. That's what I think. Yeah, right. Nice. What do you want to keep and throw away? Well, one thing that I am not a fan of is measuring sticks. OK, interesting. I'm going to say apologies to your shadow point. No, no, no. Bay. Apologize. It's OK to be wrong, uninformed, dumb, and opinion. That's kind of why we're here. I just-- I just-- the range sticks. OK. I just feel like it's excessive having to handle multiple tools. Sure. Simultaneously sometimes. I thought that was your special to do that today. I learned. And having to look for Arkitypice in there, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or the three. I agree. I feel like-- I kind of-- I feel like there are ways where-- or situations where it can be convenient. Yeah. Like a hobby hobby's range finder, for example. Which you can get nowhere, unless you sub to our nature. And I'm going to ask us a lot. Pre-determined measurements. But that's for short things. If I'm measuring ranges, I don't want to pick up a measuring stick that's like a footlong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. I don't know where that is or how it's making that sound. And it's going to probably do it. And I apologize. Sure. So yeah, I like that because I want to add that to my list of things to do away with. And that's range on guns when playing on tiny tables. Yeah, it's-- I think just range on guns in general. Yeah. Like the tables we're playing on represent, what? Like, 100 meters? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like a pistol can hit that, you know? And like I get it maybe like a pistol versus an AR-- Yeah. --salt rifle should have some differentiation between how hard they hit. Yeah. But in terms of actually like making the distance-- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Everything should be able to hit range-wise. Yeah. Yeah. And then if we want to differentiate the stopping power, we can do that in different ways. Yeah. Not by modifying the dance rolls. But what you could have is the thing I want to keep exploding sixes. OK, you love that shit. Everyone loves rolling sixes. Everyone loves rolling sixes. Exploding like critical hits. Crits rolling on sixes. Yeah. De-sixes. Yeah, it does something like, yeah. Yeah, I guess you'll call it a critical hit. Like if you're rolling D-sixes and you roll sixes, they are more AP, more damage, more hits. Yeah, I love all that shit. Yeah. Give me all that shit. Yeah, oh, yeah. Yeah, I want to keep-- I want to keep one's always miss. Yeah, oh, you know, like the lowest number always misses on a dice, and the highest number always hits. That's just like that. It shouldn't be anything else. It should be like, you're not allowed to make a wall game if you don't have that rule. Because that just confuses like big dums like us. Because we've got to play again, we're like, oh, OK, it's a six. Well, that obviously always hits, even though I can't hit on the six, I technically need a seven, but sixes always hits. And then someone's like, well, actually no. Actually, sixes don't hit. And you're like, what do you mean? That's the highest number. I honestly can't roll any higher. I could try harder, but I cannot roll higher. I'm like, yeah, but it doesn't work like that. Well, that's on them. Yeah, they're wrong. They're wrong. I'm curious to know what the man himself wanted to keep or throw away. Oh, yeah, he-- not a fan of custom dice. Oh, really? So like, Legion dice. He actually mentioned Shadowpoint dice. That's interesting. Because I always thought him to be a smart man, but now I'm realizing he's a moron. He's a genius dude. Oh, yeah, OK. No, he was much more of the option where it's like, have standard dice, but use d8s, d10s, d12s. Yeah. But like, he mentioned that game devs think they can get a better, I guess, outcome by having symbols on their dice, which they probably can, right? Yeah. But like, I think it's just an extra step or like extra barrier into that kind of game. Yeah. Yeah, I completely agree, but also still love it. You know, like, I love the Shadowpoint dice. I love-- I would actually-- it would really bring the game down if I had to use normal dice. Really? Yeah. So if you were sort of looking for surges, you'd be like, I need a four. I was like, I'd be like, oh, a four? Is it a surge? A four is a surge. A five is a hit. That's right. All right, so a four is a surge. It's just adding an extra step, which I get. It's more universal, which is great, because then it doesn't matter what dice you have. But also like, I both understand why people would want to do away with that, but also would also hate for that to be done away with. Yeah, OK. Personally. Yep. And also, when I think about underworlds, I'm like, of course, you could just roll a D6 and be like, three to four is a three is a-- what is it? A half support? Yeah, yeah. And a four is a full support. And then a five is a hit. And it's like, OK, now I'm converting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I love those symbols. I love rolling my rat dice by orange translucent rat dice and seeing the exact symbol and knowing what that means straight away. I don't have to be like, oh, three? Is that a double? No, that's a single support. So I totally get it. But I just think he's dumb. There's definitely, yeah, the mechanics of the game that needs to be like that, right? I'm the target audience for those dice, obviously. If I was an idiot, he'll spend more money than they have to. I'm like, give me the moon dice. Give me the-- what are the barrels? The barrels. They were the barrels. They were god awful. I'd buy them. I would buy them. I did. I bought how many crude dice? 60 or something. 60 crude dice. Yeah. You can still buy them. They were that not in demand that you can still buy those crude dice. They're still on the web store. Yeah, and they are. They actually are. Gee, W, you got a pallet of them. They're like, we're going to get rid of this shit. We have to get rid of it before we change a symbol of crude. So you guys need to buy this. Yeah. Yeah, I get it. I totally get it, because obviously universal dice are better. But if I'm buying-- if I'm playing games like-- I would call them isolated games where the miniatures and the terrain are not relevant anywhere else-- Sure. --like, shatterpoint, like, underworlds, then of-- like, I don't really care that I'm also buying dice that fit that isolated world, if that makes sense. So I get it. I disagree, but I totally get the point. I can't quite remember off top of my head his other peeps. But he had three things. Go check it out. It was a good watch. It sort of makes you think. Yeah. Yeah. Makes you think. Makes you think. What did he want to keep? What was his favorite thing? He didn't say he just-- there's just things he didn't like. OK. We're negative. I would never do that. Negative nerds. That would never be so negative. I would never do a negative episode. No, it was good that I like it. Yeah. It was. It was. It was three things I don't like. But it wasn't-- it didn't come across, like, a negative vibe. I don't reckon he would. No. Because he's just one of the-- it's funny when, like, we go into the back end of our YouTube studio, it's always like, oh, this is what people that watch your videos watch. Yeah. And it's like, tabletop memes. Like, it makes sense. He covers miniature agnostic games. He's so casual and understanding in his approach. I feel like he is a homie. He just doesn't know it. Oh, yeah, yeah. He'll not one day. He'll not one day. We'll get you here. You'll be in that Discord soon, Adam. Better than that. I mean, I got to be home. Yeah. One day, I'm going to go to a deputy con. I'm going to gank him. Oh, don't do it, man. I feel like he'll get arrested. Maybe. Ah, it's probably the worst place to get arrested. Chicago. Yeah, you want to be arrested in Chicago, dude. Get arrested in some way like Florida. Here are the places you don't want to get arrested America back. I mean, I've never been to these places. Back me up. Let me know in the comments. We're not to get arrested. You don't want to get arrested in Chicago, Atlanta, Cleveland, Florida, and New York. Yeah, LA might be pretty bad, too. LA is probably like, it's like Vegas, but you don't know. Vegas is like, ah, we all get it. Yeah, OK, cool. We're all here together. Yeah, we're all here for the same thing. Yeah, and we just didn't-- we didn't get it. And hence we're here. Yep. Yep. All right. Vegas is. Get arrested in some way like Seattle or Washington. Oh, yeah. Yeah. What are we talking about? Get arrested. More gaming. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, you would get a-- you would do away with range funders by sticks. Measuring sticks. What else all the Legion had horrible ones? They had to like stick them together. Oh, yeah, they had to build it. They had to build them. It was like a-- Yeah, they had to build like that. Yeah. Yeah. Shout out points slightly better than that regardless. Gives you all the ranges. And I don't care. Nah. Not in care. It's like whether I pick up this-- I'm so indifferent. Yeah. It's like, do I pick up a range for? Or do I measure 18 inches? Yeah. I'm like, whatever. The cool thing is I can paint these, I guess. Versus picking up a stick. And like, if you paint them, it kind of feels a little bit more bespoke, I guess. But again, same with Uncle Adam and his point about doing away. I can totally understand what people wanting to do away with that. Yeah. And just being like, let's universal lies. Everything? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's just use dice. And let's just use distance. And like, fuck your bespoke dice and other stuff. Yeah. Especially when those games often have a shortage in those things. Right. Like, shatter point. I still haven't seen dice on a shelf. Exactly. And that's ridiculous. Because you need those dice. And you need more dice than they give you. Yeah. Otherwise, you're sharing dice and it just cuts them. Yeah. Anyway, so I get it. I totally get it. I wouldn't want it. But you'd want it as an option. And that should be a thing. It's like, possibly the middle ground is, yeah, we've got our bespoke range sticks. Yeah. Here's what they're worth. Yeah. So you can instead use a measuring thing. And here's how to convert our dice, whether they're d8s or whatever they are, they're in shatter point. Yeah. And here's a conversion table. Yeah. And so if you want to use your own dice, not only do we support that, but here's the conversions for it, so that you can just use those. Add a tournament. That's legal, whatever. Yeah. And then people have the option. And that's just better for everyone. Absolutely. So then weaves like me and be like, oh, it's like $50 for whatever you say I need to buy. And then normal people like you and Adam. Because it's just like, oh, I'll just use dice. Yeah. But I've already got these dice. That are right. And like a tape measure. You know, how distance works. So I'll just use that. Cool. Cool. It's been a big week, man. It's been a massive week. I'm curious. So we have both somehow. You know what's funny? We have both purchased two halves to a scaven-tied box. And it would have been way better for us to just buy the scaven-tied box and split it. Going to be real with you right now, dude. Yeah. I bought a full box. What do you mean? Let me tell you that. Like, give me everything. Give me the lot. With tomato? This time, yes. Yeah. OK. So you've got everything. Yeah, I did. I was going to get just a half. And then connections with appropriate pricing. Yeah. Convenced to be otherwise. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have maintained that Games Workshop is overpriced. Fucking overpriced. And ridiculous. Yep. But also all their starting boxes and even their combat patrols and those sort of like start collecting style boxes are pretty well-priced. Yes, they are. There is value in them. Yeah, for sure. Because I was looking at, you know, if you buy a Star Wars Shadow Point box, comes with four miniatures for, let's say, $65 on sale. Sure. Let's say $70. Yep. Yeah. So what is that per miniature, like $17.50? Yep. And it's like you can get 100 minis. No, what is it? 75 in Scaventide for $350? Oh, yeah, both sides. Yeah. Yeah, both sides. With the rule book. And terrain. And all that stuff. Yeah. And it's like, you know, same for Dominion, which is actually like even today, still a great deal, especially when you get, like, you can get it for like 220 bucks. Some joints just nearly give it away. And so you go there by pot of paint and they're like, here's your free copy of Dominion. Yeah. It's like, yeah, no thanks. No thanks. I just came for the paint. Yeah. Like, this is free. And I'm like, I cannot deal with the stress of having unpainted miniatures. And I'm like, we know that's why we're giving it away. I'm trying to give it away. Yeah. Yeah. And so I can totally understand you who hates the current state of Games Workshop pricing, buying their flagship box. I mean, like, you have to. I mean, you've got to be like, so anti-establishment. You're like, yeah, but you have to support the establishment. I'm not talking about supporting the establishment. You've got to, how can you be anti-establishment if there's no establishment? You've got to support it. Exactly. If there's anything, what else do we have to live for? So beautiful. Yeah, no. So you bought it, you got, you got Scaven. I'm getting, yeah. That's amazing to me. Yeah, I'll have Scaven. It's probably going to be here on Monday, I reckon. Your half is combined in the shipping. And when you say half, you mean? My two or two halves. You're two Scaven halves. My thousand point, no. I know what I'm expecting in the mail. A hundred. Yeah. My informant stole me. Yeah. Yeah, I purchased a bit. Yep. But I mean, it's Scaven. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and I lost my previous Scaven. I still don't know how you fucking lost this. What you have to understand is that I am not a smart man. And so I owned previously, I had hundreds of Scaven. Yeah. Some on Spruce, some built some painted, I didn't paint them. They were like, I'd purchased them painted. Yeah. And I actually went through a massive process of taking them all and putting them on square bases. Yeah. What? Because of the old world, I was like, that's interesting. OK. I was like, I'm never going to play Age of Sigma we never had. You've re-based, I assume, re-based models? Correct. Yeah, I had re-based miniatures that were on-- actually, there were some that were on round bases. Yeah. Cut them off, put them on squares. Yeah. There were some that were on like cinematic, dioramic-- Oh, like Kings of War style, multi-basis. Multi-basis. Yeah. Massive squares. Yeah, yeah. I had to cut them all off individually. You're mad at me. And then put them on squares. And I probably had, I want to say, 200 rats. How did you require these square bases? Oh, a 3D printed them myself. Oh, wow. Because you can do that with the power of a 3D printer. You can. Exhibit A. And so I think it took me like a single day to paint, sorry, to print 200 square bases. Yeah, right. Because I would put like 20 on a plate, and it would take like three hours. Yeah. So I'll just pump those out. And so, yeah. And then I put them all on that. And then I had a big hobby clean out. And I know the mistake I made. Oh, yeah. You can pinpoint them all. I can pinpoint them all at the moment. Because I put them all in an old-- like the-- what's it called? It was like the Isle of Blood box. Yeah. Which was like the very last eighth edition of Warhammer fantasy box. Yeah. And it was a Skaven versus something box. Yeah. And so I had a bunch of Skaven in that. And I put them all in that box. And I sort of put that box in an area that was not wise. It was kind of like with a bunch of old empty boxes. And so when I did a big clean out, I just kind of like grabbed all these boxes and threw them in the bin. And with it went over 200 Skaven models. Wow. And it was devastating. And I've still today not dealt with that. I could tell. I still today have just got-- It's based in-- so feel free to open up. Oh, yeah. Embrace your idiocy. I have fully embraced my idiocy. But I just have not embraced that moment. Which is sort of an amalgamation of my idiocy. And so, yeah. I kind of just went, I mean, if I could throw them out, like, what can I do about it? I've gotten zero-- I had zero Skaven. My heart aches for you. Yeah. Yeah. And then they had Skaven so I didn't always well in the land. Kind of. I still like the older model, but it's better than me. Yeah, I was like-- It's just fine. I actually looked at replacing-- I was like, all right, well, how much would it cost me to get, you know, 200 Skaven? Yeah. Similar to what I had before. Yeah. Clan rats, storm verm, and rat ogres, all that stuff. And I was like, oh, cool. Four times as much as it would cost for me to buy two halves of Skaven Tired for older models that some of them don't even have rules for. Yeah. That as we discussed on an episode a long time ago, the rat ogres are hideous versus the new ones which look OK. So yeah, two halves is just the start. Nice. But I mean, I got to paint them. Yeah, yeah. And that's-- there's 100 of them. We know there's some good content to listen to while you paint those. What could I listen to? You can listen to our deep time in this game. Oh, the one we did last week and the one that we're going to do next week? That's great. No, wait, wait, sorry. The one that we did four weeks ago and the one that we did last week. Times a construct. Yeah, and we have drafted it. It is ours to behold. Exactly. Yeah, I will be. I'll be listening to myself talk about stuff that-- You feel like I did listening to you talk about it? Oh, God. I'll envy death. It wasn't that bad. OK, that's good. I-- it was quite knowledgeable. Well, now that you have scaven, that brings a new light to it, maybe you'll-- I'm going to paint a scaver. Yeah, the dwarven rat fleshed. Yeah. Yeah, cool. Please do. Well, you bought what I understand is you're hand-picking different magazines. I can't believe you saw me walking down the street. Gary in the book. Judge, today I want you to go get a coffee. And as I was driving past, I saw Shane, who lives in the same town as me, walking across the street with a handful of magazines, Warhammer magazines, to his car. And he looked so sheepish about it. Like, he looked like he'd been-- they might as well have been porn magazines they bought from the Triple X store. And he was sheepishly walking across the street with them. And I was like, which I said in my messages, like, what you doing with those war happen magazines? I was like, what the fuck? You eyeball of me? Oh, I went past. I'm way out to me, brother-in-law's place this morning. And me and Gritty are going hobbies in this subscription almost. And I went and picked up the first batch. Yeah. And you were like, actually none of these, if for me, these are all Gritty's. Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah, but I had the first, like, issue one, issue two that come on these massive cardboard fucking things that obviously try to sell it. They're like, it's like A3 cardboard, right? Because I saw you. And if someone's holding magazines, imagine they're holding just like magazines, right? Women's weekly or whatever. A4 size magazine. It's discreet. Yours were not discreet. It looked like you were holding posters. It was a billboard. Yeah. It was like, I'm a nerd. Yeah. Big old red, I'm a nerd billboard. Yeah. And it wasn't a fire walk from the news agents to where I parked the truck, but it was far enough. Yeah. Yeah, it was across two roads. Yeah. I didn't even use the crossing. I was just like, I'm fucking beating my head. Yeah. Straight from the door. You risked. Could've walked five meters that way to the fucking pedestrian crossing, but I was just like, no. That's extra time. Yeah. That's 10 meters extra. Exactly, dude. Yeah. So you had handpicked some models. So we got a spreadsheet. We got a spreadsheet, dude. So like, really-- Sounds like you've gone too in on this. For someone that hates, it comes off. Well, there's 20 bucks of mag, dude. Some of the bucks is 20 bucks. Exactly. You have always lived by that route, so. That's-- I don't go on my tombstone when I die. No, no, no, no. 20 bucks was 20 bucks. [LAUGHTER] Did you kick me out? Did you slip off your own leg and it went-- It went to kick you, and I slipped. [LAUGHTER] This man. Yeah, so Gritty made this spreadsheet where it's got, like, two columns. It's like, Evan column and Shane column. And we've got, like, digits in, like, and then issues of Stormbringer. Wow. And, like, some columns are, like, we're both getting the copy. Oh, wow. Because, like, I just got to use agency and say, like, hey, can you order me, like, one, two, five, fucking seven. So you bought the shit ones, you know? And then they text me and they say, how are your Stormbringer's in? Wow. That's pretty good. So what is that-- what is included in that magazine? It's mostly Stormcaster. Who's the-- it's sort of a amalgamation of-- It's, like, dominion. So it's, like, orcs and Stormcaster. So what are you mostly vying, Stormcaster? Stormcaster. What's Gritty trying to get? Orcs. Oh, the guard rippers. The guard rippers in that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But there are some, like, issues where it's, like, for, like, these three issues, you'll get, like, sky dwarves. Yeah, nuts. And, like, these three issues, you'll get, like, Sylvanith. And, like-- It's cool. So I'm getting, like, both of them. Yeah. And then-- That's just the age of fantasy quest enemies. Exactly, right? Yeah. And, like, and then, like, mostly just all the Stormcaster. If I go, I've got a shitload of Stormcaster, but it's all, like, the new-ish to mean new stuff. Yeah. So there's some really cool models in there in that, so. Yeah, I will say about all Warhammer, or a game's workshop, I guess, is that a lot of people have hated the idea that they've turned, like, the old Stormcaster into-- what do they call it? What's the new Stormcaster? They're just Stormcaster, right? Yeah, but they're, like, I don't know, they've, like, like, Primaris, Stormcaster, and they've hated turning to-- I actually just love all that. Yeah. I think the Primaris Space Marines look scaled up just way better. Yeah. Yeah. Apart from Grey Knights, who are, by far, the coolest-looking Space Marines there are. It's terrible. Well, I mean, maybe if you're an idiot. And-- I am an idiot. Yeah, I resemble that robot. And, yeah, I feel like the new, like, Pantheon-looking Stormcaster are just way cooler. I think so, too, because, like, they're first ones. Like, they're first liberators in that, it's kind of like-- Yeah. You've got, like, white shields and hammers. Yeah. What-- what are you? Yeah. Right? Yeah, I think they basically embrace the high fantasy aspect with the new ones. Yeah. It's like, that's better instead of trying to, like, tow the line. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's cool, especially the ones with the big fucking shields and the hammers. Oh, yeah, or the spears and-- Yeah. Yeah, I just think I'm up. I like, I love them. If someone was like, here's a painted army of those, I'd be like, that's sick. I wouldn't do it myself. Yours looks sick. I love the-- I hope you continue a color scheme for us. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I want you to throw in the old ones with the new ones. That's cool, too. Yeah. But if it were me, I was just like, I wouldn't paint them. But if you gave me those miniatures, fire, that's sick. The new storm casts? You ever had eggs, dude? Oh, that's sick. [LAUGHTER] Yeah. Yep. They're eggs. And that's always the thing that's the most exciting about Age of Sigma. I feel like they've just got the cooler minis. Like, 40K stuff is cool because it's sci-fi. But I feel like standalone aesthetically, the Age of Sigma stuff is just on another level. I think this is a 40K stuff. It's just taking years to catch up. Obviously, they've had to redo a lot of ranges in that. Rather than doing what they did with Age of Sigma, where they just chopped the fantasy off at the knees or less. And then built it up again. Like, 40K, they're doing more of that slow burn transition. That's it, yeah. Yeah, so true because the elder have the same look that they did 40 years ago. So whereas, you know, Sylvanith didn't exist. It was just wood elves, but they were different. It was kind of a part of wood elves, whereas when they remade them, they really leaned into it. So and I'd nith deep-kin and those things. And I'll see like bone reapers, sick-looking minis for what is basically just skeletons. They just took it to another level. Yeah, it's a whole new level of undead. Yeah, yeah, so don't minis. I mean, we'll see what the game looks like. We'll see what fourth edition. Yeah, I reckon we'll maybe give it a go. We'll give it a go because the rules-- It has a ruleable front. Yeah, well, now you do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the rules are free for now. Once it starts going down the same 40K route of-- Yeah. You got to buy every battle tome or, you know, I'm out. At that point, I'm out. Unless the game is so good that I can bypass that, but I can't. You know, how good can a game be? Yeah. It would have to be like a nine or 10 out of 10. Yeah. For me to overlook that. And I just can't-- there are so many other games that are at that level already. Absolutely rules. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or $5 rules or $10 rules. Even $30 rules for the entirety of it, you know, like a war surge last time at purchase versus, you know, $80 every book. Yeah. So we'll see. We'll see. I mean, who knows? God willing. Yeah. It's so good that you want to pay $80. And it's not like 40K where there's so many supplements. It's like, hey, just once a year. Yeah. You buy your new battle tome. Yeah. And you love the game so much that you're all in on it. Great. That's good for everyone, but we'll see. I just feel like there's always two purchases. There's the handbook or the chapter approved, and then there's the codecs for the battle time. So like minimum, you're looking like 160. And then it's like, which, you know, arguably OK. That's not horrible in isolation. But then you combine that with the fact that they rotate out older. Like they're kind of like force you to make new purchases with how good some new things are. You know, it's like, hey, here's this new box and character we released. And you'd be an idiot not to include it with your army. Yeah. You're basically playing the game with a handicap if you don't. So not only are you buying those things, but you're now having to buy those minis to play the game respectively. So, oh, hey, these models are six years old, but now that it exists. Yeah, that's even worse. That's even worse. That alone is probably one thing that I'll never like the week come into. It's hard to come back from that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You basically buy like even now buying the scab and you're like, OK, cool. I can expect these miniatures will last me six to eight years, which is only two editions of 40. I mean, the other one. Yeah, the other one. The other one. Yeah. But you know, I'm not hopeful. Who knows? How long did your stormcast last? Not long. Was it eight? Eight years? Well, like, soul wars stuff is now out of action. And that was the second edition. And we're now just preaching fourth edition. Eight. So bad. It is six years, I think. It's just three years. Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of that's kind of crazy. Anyway, we'll end on a high note. It's funny because we've, you know, like over the last, maybe three months, we've talked a bit of shit about games or workshop. Yeah. But also we're both purchasing. Oh, yeah. And we always, like, it's always going to be like, the minis are that good. Yeah. And like, our games were point now where some of them are, you know, generic enough, vague enough. Yeah. But you can use them wherever you want. Like, you know, like, I think early on, I was very pigeonholed where it was like, nope, that is what it is on the box, and it could never be anything else. Yeah. Now it's kind of like, OK, I can, I can sort of start using it in other systems as something else, whether that space marine is now a bad or brother. Yeah. Or, you know, or like whatever, like, but I've broken down that sort of barrier, which is important because it kind of goes back to what we talked about a couple of weeks ago when you're like getting into wargaming. It's kind of like buying the miniatures for the miniatures. Yeah. Because the physical model will last forever. Forever. Yeah. It is whatever you want it to be. Plus, longer than we will. Yeah, facts. Yeah, that's actual facts. Plastic doesn't break down so well. So, yeah, you're buying the miniature for the miniature. And if you think it looks cool, well, it's going to look cool for 80, 100, 200 years, you know, long after you're gone. Yeah. So if you can also then turn that into something that plays fun, then that's how you do hobby. Because games come and go, additions come and go. Yeah. But those miniatures are forever. So buy cool shit and find fun games to play with it. I like that. And that's why we have bought this thing is not to play Age of Sigma. That's a bonus. It's like, oh, if we can play that and it's fun. Yep. Amazing. Yep. But if we play it and it's garbage, well, great. We have some dope Age of Fantasy miniatures. Exactly. Some cool shit we can throw into war surge. Yep. Yep. Yeah. So that's where we're at. And that's why we're buying GW stuff despite bitching about it for months. The establishment. The establishment. We're anti-establishment as long as we can still buy that. Cool shit. Yeah. Done. Done. Thanks for watching. Hope you enjoyed. Yeah, that's true. If you're still here and you're still here. Yep. Well, then you're just one of us, I guess. You're a swell person. You're a swell person. We can respect that. Yeah. If you actually have swelling, please say a doctor. If symptoms persist, but we're not-- we're not GPs. No, we're not. We can't help with that, but we can help with other things. We help with hobby. Yeah, I would say probably. Yeah. Yeah. So jump into the discord. Yeah. Ask us questions about hobby, and we can help with that. But again, if you have swelling and it's persisting, please go see a physician of sorts. Any more than four hours, you best go to a hospital. Yeah, if it's throbbing still. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you enjoyed the episode, but please go see a doctor. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, you know what they can do, too? What are they waiting at the doctor? Yeah. Consider joining the patron. You could consider it. Yeah. Yeah. Usually those appointments take like 40 minutes for someone to see you. Takes only 40 seconds to sign up to our patron. And for as little as $2 a month, you can get early access to videos like this. Or if you prefer better content, we have a second channel where we do battle reports and stuff, and you can get early access to that stuff also. I like how you prefer that it has better content. I'm not saying better, unless I already said better, in which case, I mean, yeah. I already said it, so it's out there. It's up to you what you like. I think it's in the atmosphere. It's in the Ozone. It doesn't go to the ether yet. We've combed out of the Ozone pretty well. Not that you and I specifically. Well, I mean, we had a big part of it. Yeah, we do. Yeah, well, I'd like to think we did. Yeah. They always say that about us, is that? Cheers. Cheers. We beat the Ozone. That's cheers to you, homie. That's it, shout out to our patrons. We've got some real homies in there. We've also got some main homies. Thanks to you guys. Main homies, pretty good. Pretty good. We've got MJ Moose, bad boy. XNX, real one, noomer, that's you, noomer. The guy with spurnsy fondos or Hawkers, great luck, journeyman. We've got some OGs, also pretty good. Black and Bolo, our co-chair, T-rad, Ollie. Pinny, Agro, Don Juan, Don, PureBlind, Jackson V, Nathan A, Mini-Warmout, Ozwargamic. And a log line and big-- Roach! Also, PureBlind, we'll never forget you. And thank you all for tuning in. We'll see you. Cheers. Thank you for helping us conquer the Ozone. And make sure you get a Ozwargamy.com.au. Suss out some interesting and very good quality 3D printed terrain and miniatures. And also, we've got affiliate links for all the other shenanigans below. Yep. Hey, check out Churchy Place. Yeah, Churchy Place. What have you been playing lately? He'd been playing Surround Dead. Which I thought was a joke when he first said the name, when we were playing board games. Yeah, yeah. Surround Dead. I was like, why are you saying Surrounded so strangely? Emphasizing an unusual part of the word. I feel like you're saying the word wrong, but I respect you too much to correct you. And I wasn't until I realized that was the game. It's Surround Dead. It was Minecraft and Daisy had a baby. So Battle Bit Daisy? Mm. OK, well, now I'm erect. So we'll have to end the episode here, and we'll see you guys next week. Hey, Roo. Woo, big up there, the boys. Five is a shame, such a mind's free in all walks of chains. Do what you love, roll it nice. Make the victory with cold as ice. One thing cold, but I'm gonna turn around. Hey, look back, she's coming to my head. What game are you doing in my head? What game are you doing in my head? [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [BLANK_AUDIO]
