[music] Greetings and welcome to Star Trek Discovery Pod. It's sometimes funny trying to be a smart podcast, covering all things new and classic trick. Forget anything you might have heard about the Mycelial Plane. I am your captain, Mariah Gossett, with me on the view screen we have. >> Cloudhangs, hey, Paul, I was thinking, you know what we need to do? We need to fix the captain of this podcast if we really want to fly. [laughs] >> And we could do that by like this, adhering to the three main principles of universe, space, time. >> Paul. >> Paul. [laughs] Welcome, Collide and Paul. We are tonight talking about episodes 9, 10, and 11 of season two of Star Trek Prodigy. How about 12? Are we doing 9, 10, or 12? >> We're just doing 9, 10, and 11. >> Oh, I thought we were doing four episodes. >> I thought we were doing 12. >> Oh, well, I did three. And if we were doing four, that's my bad. [laughs] I posted nine through 11. [laughs] That's what we were talking about. So that's what we'll talk about tonight 'cause that's what was advertised. >> Okay, fair enough, fair enough. >> I forgot we were doing four at a time. >> No worries. It's been a long week. Don't worry about it. >> Don't worry about it. >> Okay. >> Never mind the Miss Gila play. Everything you heard about the Miss Gila play. I did three last week, so it works out. [laughs] >> Does it? >> It'll, no, no, make sure. >> It'll be fine. We'll do four episodes next week. I'll remember what to do with that way. Yeah, anyway, a few reminders 'cause apparently we all need them. I need reminders. I need so many reminders. If it's not on my calendar, it doesn't exist in my brain. But Paul, what are places people can find reminders and notes and things like that about our show? >> Hey, maybe you could subscribe to our podcast at Apple Spotify or YouTube. All links are at startrickpod.co. And once again, here is our weekly big for money. If you are loving our content and would like to support us in any way, consider joining our Patreon for just $2 per episode at patreon.com/startrickpod. I know he said it's for us anyway, but I meant money. >> Oh, money. And I know they're-- >> I know, I know. God, I had the chance, I messed it. >> You missed it, Paul, too late. >> Too slow. Yes, and we do live streams. So if you ever wanna hang out with us during the week, it's Thursdays, APM Pacific Time, 10 PM Central, 11 PM Eastern, which I know is late, but I'm sure some of y'all are some nightbirds. It's a Thursday, Thursday, it's a new Friday. And if you're hanging out with us in the chat, Clyde, how can people like talk to us, tell us that they want our attention in the chat 'cause people are chatting away in there, but maybe they're like, hey, we want y'all to pay attention to what we're saying. >> Just turn your microphones on and go beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. >> More phone. >> Signal. A Murph signal, if you will. It's kind of a Murph-is code, kind of like a switch between Murph and Morse, no. >> Really do it, really do it. >> Seriously, though, I'm trying. Try it. Look, they can't all be gold, I'm just saying, they can't all be gold. No, seriously, though, if you wanna interact with us live, just type capital P, capital O, capital D, capital pod in the chat and we'll take a look at your comment, your question, you're using your ramblings. And then in a moment, when we really wanna know what you thought about this particular episodes or these episodes, type capital H, capital F, capital HF in the chat and we'll take a look at what you're thinking if you're alive. >> Indeed, and we will do those things. Before we dive into our hot freaks, I wanted to share some messages from the Menagerie, which is something if you were a patron and you're like, "Hey, I want to hear my thoughts on the podcast as well, but I can't stay up this late or time zones don't work out." You can just let us know in the slack what you think about upcoming episodes. So we have from Karen. Okay, these three episodes are so fantastic. See three episodes, they knew. I mean, just a nod, they're choices. Wesley's fantastic and Will does a great job. He is a little bit more manic than he was as a kid, but time travel might do that to you. And I may not be a Beltran fan, but I am a Chicote fan and he does not disappoint. Beltran does a good job. They held no punches when it came to a drink and that was so sad. I could write a book, but I'll just post this. Thank you, Karen. - Thank you, Karen. - And with that, I think it is time for us to have some... (screaming) It's time for some hot freaks. Paul, what did you think about these three episodes? - Right, I'm Paul. - Yeah, you're Paul. - I really liked the three episodes. The fourth one really brings it up to get the folks, everything like, I don't even understand. - I'm so excited to watch it next week. - I talk about the, you know, these three without the... Anyway, yes, I thought they were great. I think this season, they're doing better with the serial episodes versus the episodics. Like, you know, like, I feel like the serials, they really know what they want or they're really spending the time or whatever. I was not an anti-whistly pressure person watching TNG as Wesley made his appearances, like, say, in Picard and stuff like that, I became less of a Wesley Crusher fan, pretty much because I think Wesley Crusher is a different character than Will Wheaton. And I think, like, Will Wheaton, probably a little more Will Wheaton than I would like in my Star Trek. And in this episode, I think he was still very Will Wheaton, but in a very fun way. Does that make sense? - Totally, yeah, very... It felt very Hoovian, very Dr. Hoov. - Yeah, yep, yep, because that's the word. - And we can talk about that, but Clyde, what's your hot freak? - So I hadn't watched episode eight and you're curious about what I might think about episode eight. - Yeah. - By the time I watched eight, which I thought was a fantastic episode, by the time I watched eight, nine, 10, 11, and 12, my thought was this isn't a kids show anymore. This isn't for whatever demographic it was. It's not. This is a legitimate show. They're all these Easter eggs when they talk about things like the mycelial network. They talk about mirror versus... - Tell the verse. - Yeah, they're talking about like time travel, like they're explaining time travel. But the Adriq, like it's one thing to mention that a character died, but they show his skull, right? They showed his dead body and I was like, yo, this is not a kids show. This is an animated series. And it feels like to me, for the first time, they've really, it found its footing. I think that Dahl actually works with an older mentor, like a cicote in tow, like his behavior and his, like it made sense. Like he really made sense for like the first time for me. And I was just, I was actually in shock. And I had to actually shock him to shock him, Dahl. But I actually had to stop myself from going on to episode 13. - Yeah, me too. - Like I started and was like, no, don't do it. Like I had to stop myself like I'm a little shocked. Like this series is, it's even better than I thought it was. And it's, it's, it does feel like it's hitting on all cylinders. And I'm hoping the Netflix like keeps it going. - Yeah, I would really love to see it continue. I agree with y'all. I really liked this series of episodes. I think I don't mind the very Hovian aspect to the traveler. And I mean, it's so Hovian coated that I'm like trying to go with it. I'm here for it. To me, the Wesley storyline was the most kid part. And I felt kid appropriate and like you are performing for a kids show. And yeah, I thought it was like very complex and very like beautifully made the creature, the loom scary, the loom are scary. - It's real scary. Like, you know, they're really, they're really scared on the edge in scaring edge tomorrow too. - And the Matrix. (laughing) But, but yeah, I guess we can just jump into, you know, the devour of all things part one and two. But I was like, wow, we had so much death even in this first episode, we lose a red shirt who then has just like disappeared. Like how sad it was like really intense. But I really love the design of the like kind of pyramid style thing. It felt like we were hitting a lot of the standard sci-fi tropes in those first two episodes, right? We have the big desert planet with the big like pyramid thing that you have to find the one thing, lots of techno babble within there. But I, yeah, I really enjoy the loom and, but it was quite the exposition dump from Wesley that I wonder to me, if not Trekkies, follow, yeah. - I mean, I, one of the things that I liked and I don't talk about this very often is they did a very good job with scale. Like, you know, like in their production design of the, of the, of the ziggurat where you go like, oh, this is big and accessible. It looked in the, you know, that they set it out loud and you're like, oh, it looks like it's made from pieces of the future in the past. And I go like, oh, I can see that. And so, so they really did a good job of creating the environment for that. And the reveal of Wesley was like, oh, well, I didn't see that coming. - No, did not see that. - Yeah, like that was like, that was very, very low on the list as far as like not existed on the list as, so I thought that was worthwhile. And it did not disappoint. - Yeah, I did get spoiled from the internet about Wesley being in the show, but I didn't know how it was going to happen. I just saw like, you know, some screenshots of it. So I've been kind of waiting to see when and where. So when it did happen this week, it was, it made sense in the, I thought the grade of the plot. And I was glad we were finally really like, rip-roar into this mid-season kind of finale because in a traditional, you know, order, we would be waiting a couple of months before we got the next set. But, and man, I'd be on the edge of my seat if I was having to wait for very, we leave off with that like kind of longing look of Chikote looking off into middle distance. But what did you think of the idea? I feel like essentially the loom have now become a bit of our big bads, right? They're the things we're running away from and they're running towards trying to fix the timeline. But we still have this looming, if you will, from the loom, but this looming presence as well though, of like, of Gwyn's father and like, and what's her name? Who's voiced by Jameela? - Essentia. - Essentia, we have kind of this like subset of big bads that have kind of been pushed off to the side and we haven't seen them come back around. And so in the scale of things, do you think we should be more worried about Essentia or mostly worried about the loom? - I'd say mostly worried about the loom. I feel like there's been a switch here. I think right around episode maybe six, there was this, again, I have no knowledge at all and I'm probably wrong, but it almost felt like someone in the room said, "You know what? Let's make the show we want to make. Let's stop trying to be a bunch of adults trying to make this kid show. Let's make the show we want." And so Essentia and the diviner felt to me like, "That's your kid big bad, right?" Essentia's gonna lose. You know she's gonna lose. She looks like the big bad. She's not that scary. She's gonna lose, right? The diviner that we've seen, he is a lot of bark, but he feels defanged. He mostly feels like a hurt person, right? Grieving. But that loom? I mean, the minute that they tried to go through the shield, I mean, not try, the minute they were like, shields to maximum and that thing went through it like it wasn't standing there, that should terrify you at that point. Or even before that, when they're shooting the phasers at it and nothing's happening, like this is the best. - They still keep on doing it. - They still keep on doing it. I have no idea why they can't do it. (laughing) - What else are you gonna do? - Run, but the answer is to run. - Run, I'm gonna call 100%. You just run, at this point, drop the phaser and just run, 'cause it's just slowing you down. Like that is, and they look scary? Yeah, that's the big bad for me. - I see it as a game of thrones. I see it as like Night King and Cersei. And so like, you know, and ultimately, I feel like, first of all, you know, aside, I feel like game of thrones ended wrong. I think the-- - What? What a controversial opinion. - Hang on, hang on, hang on, like it. Yes, wild card. I think the correct answer was basically, they fight Cersei first. And they all use up all their, their what you call, all their resources. And then the Night King comes in and kills everyone and freezes Westeros. Because that, to me, that's the moral of the story. It's like, you know, like you could say that the, where are they called again, something walkers, night walkers? - The white walkers. - The white walkers is like climate change. And rather than, you know, deal with climate change, you wind up like bickering over things that don't matter. My hot take, sorry about that. But like, I feel like the loom are going to be like that. They're going to, we're going to fight Accentia and stuff like that. And all that stuff. And then the loom is going to come in and either they're going to join forces or more likely they're going to fix the timeline right before the loom eats squid. - That would be, yeah. That would probably be what that is. - That is my guess. Without, without, you know, without cheating. Without cheating, you know, like God. - Yeah, I think that's a good prediction. I am excited to see Michelle kind of with our group as well and how she needed to be a part of the seven in order for them to make the correct timeline. I did also really like all of the time portal jumps in these episodes. But what did y'all think of our jump into sort of our 1960s office space? - Yeah, I think, I think that's great. It was a good shout out to that one Star Trek episode with Gary seven where like that was supposed to be like a spin off episode. Like they're going to do a show. - Supervisor Gary. - Yeah, and that didn't happen. But like, you know, I would have watched that. - It's assignment earth, which also included the beta five computer that they're kind of like watching everything on. - Beautiful, beautiful. Yeah. So like, I would have watched that pilot. I mean, that show, but like, no one asked me. - It definitely felt like I was thinking, man, it's like Star Trek meets an animated version of Mad Men. - Oh, yeah. - I was just like, wow, like it was kind of cool. - Yeah. - The other thing I wanted to bring up was the vibes between Michelle and zero. - Yes. I mean, it's been there for a while, right? - I mean, I guess, but I feel like now that she's seen them in their like corporeal form, like she's, she's very smitten, very smitten vibes. - I mean, we talked before about like, are we, you know, do we want a platonic relationship? And I was very pro, like, hey, I love, I think having strong philanthropic relationships are great. - Yeah, that's not the vibe I'm getting now. Like the vibe I'm getting is definitely non platonic. - Yeah, there's, there's some, there's some heat in those side glances and those hand holds, which are very cute and very like, I don't know, very kid show appropriate to be like, oh, I'm think I like you. I'm going to hold your hand. (laughs) It's very cute. I was very worried for a minute. I was like, man, this show is not afraid to kill people off or we're going to get, I mean, I was like, I don't think they're going to kill off Michelle, but I was like, they could. - Yeah, like the siege of Voyager was like rough. - The siege of Voyager was scary. Like also, we have to talk about like, essentially, Janeways, like aliens, like moment of getting to like. - That's right, yeah, yeah. - Takeout. - The Gary's the goner weaver, yes. - Very Sigourney Weaver running around in a tank top with her giant gun and into a shuttle and taking all those beasts out of there. It was intense. - Yeah, the part of me that I was going like, oh, actually Janeway is equipped to deal with this. But then I go, oh, actually that Janeway got temporally erased. Like, you know, there's a Voyager episode where like the year of hell where they deal with the Kremlin and they have all, you know, with the time weaponry and stuff like that. - Yeah. - And so they found a way to deal with that. But like, but that, but this isn't that Janeway, that Janeway got essentially eaten by a loom. - Basically, yeah. So I was like, it took me a while to be like, oh, Janeway knows what to do. Why is he doing these things that you're supposed to do? She knows what to do. No. Oh yeah, whoops, wrong, wrong Janeway. - I was trying to think, have we ever encountered the loom before? - No. - No. - No. - Okay. - No, it has very much of a matrix kind of, no live, meets a predator alien. - I think what we find in Star Trek is normally when there's a paradox, it is like, you know, it's finished, we're in this paradox. And we can, so they're discreet. Whereas like we're in this like fuzzy area where when it's half their half isn't kind of blah, blah, blah. So. - Yeah. My other question though was like, it seems like the armbands while away to provide some defense isn't like full proof 'cause the loom we're still chasing them, right? Even though it was like, oh, we have to give everyone these things, I guess it's so that you can run away 'cause otherwise they can freeze you. - Yeah, exactly. I think like, you know, I haven't, I haven't graduated from the Chief of Ryan like Academy of Star Trek Engineering, but I believe what the temporal phase discriminator does is basically allow you to be in phase with the looms, you know, variants. Like, so that like, so like, so that they, their powers can't work on you, but they can still eat you. - Right. - You know, like I know what you think. Like, you know, like I can pick a babble at the best. You know, I can pick a babble at the best. - The thing that was a little confusing to me is Gwen's Hollow Emitter allows like, it just worked. - Right, well, she's got her temporal kind of, - Yeah, that's what we're talking about. - Stabilize it, right? But for hers, like Gwen's, it's just, they tried to freeze time and she's like, cool, what's going on? Everybody else has this thing where once they start the freeze time, you're now in a race to turn it on. - Sure. - It's like a bad design to me. Like-- - I think as a user error, I think we should just keep it on. I don't think they know that. - Yeah, I'm like, I don't know why I can't be on all the time, but I'm sure there's a reason, probably just sort of phasing. - Actually, you know what? It's time cancer. - Time cancer. - Speaking of time though, one thing that's interesting is I feel like we're being, we're being prepped because they keep mentioning the temporal wars, the temporal wars. And I'm like, are we gonna get like a temporal war, movie, like series? - Well, I wonder if there's any connection to, 'cause we don't know anything about the plot to the section 31 movie. And so I wouldn't be surprised if there was something to do with the temporal wars. Since it was so set up in discovery as well. - Yeah, that's what I'm wearing. 'Cause I was like, wow, we're hearing that again. They're referencing it like, oh, you should know it. I'm thinking, we don't yet, but we will. - Oh, yeah. - We will. - I know. All I know is like, with, we didn't do anything with term four. - I mean, well, I mean at least-- - It would be a different war. - Well, I mean, what it sounded like was, it was pretty, you know, significant casualties for the travelers. - So. - For those who tried to intervene, perhaps. It was pretty crazy. - Anything else about these first two episodes, the devour of all things part one and two? I mean, it was very action-packed. It was like, you know, a lot of exposition, a lot of catch-up of essentially like, oh, I, you know, Wesley leaving clues for everyone. What, who would you, okay, if it wasn't Wesley who came out through that portal of any other Trek characters that could have made an appearance who else would have been interesting for you? - Anyone else? No, I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding, I'm just, you know, if you're listening, well, we didn't listen, I don't want the smoke. I don't, I do not want that smoke. You know what, I'm gonna go with the obvious choice. Cute would have been fun 'cause, you know, that would have been an interesting person to hear. - Love me some John Delancy. - Can never get enough of John. So I would have been okay with, like, I wouldn't, okay. - It would have been interesting. - I would have been okay with anything new, like something that we hadn't seen before. If I think. - I got my answer. - Oh, do you have your answer? - Well, first, Stu beat all of us to the correct answer, which is Pina Yamper. - Stu, Stu, Stu. - Stu, you know it's impressive about that. - For Stu to say that means that Stu's a real listener. Like Stu gets the, that means Stu's been there for a while. Like, great job, Stu. Way to jump in there and hit the long time running. Kind of joke. - You know who I would have been excited about? - I'm waiting for you to say lore. Like I've been waiting for you to say lore for a while. - Lore is, here's the answer, you ready? Admiral Janeway. - Not our Admiral Janeway. - From another. - Oh, the one that went through the other paradox, yeah. - Exactly. So like, 'cause that Janeway, like, you know, didn't have problems screwing around with the timeline. - I could have been interesting. - So, I mean, you know, I mean, Barkley. - I was going to say Michelle Yeo as a tie-in for section. - I thought about that. - Oh, that'd be very interesting. Like, to go outside of this realm of people that, you know. - Yeah, especially 'cause they made a reference with the mycelial network. And then they're like, oh, we were told we can't talk about that back in the 20th century. - Like, I would say, if it was Empress Giorgio. - Oh, my God. - Mind blown. Like, like, there'll be pieces on the wall of my brain. - Do you know what I would have liked, actually? - What's that? - Stammets. - Oh, stammets would have been fun. - No. - I would have honestly say I would have liked stammets more than Wesley. - I think, I think, I think Riah wins it with Giorgio. I don't have, there is no other answer for me now. - Sure, it would have been a pure chaos of beauty. - Like, they go, like, "Who are like a Taren?" - Yeah, don't worry about it. - Yeah, I was like, "Oh, my God." - That would have been amazing. But I, so I would say the another one that's, you know, all jokes aside, peanut hamper would have actually been a really interesting, like character. Well, I say that because we're all looking, we're all tossing out real people who you animate, right? - Yeah, yeah. - But to bring in somebody from another animated show, another animated Star Trek show. - Boimler. - Yeah, I was like, "Or we just let Tawny Newsom and Jack Quaid be in every Star Trek series." - Yeah, that'd be, it worked. - I'm happy with Wesley. - Yeah, Wesley made that. - Yeah. - Tawny Newsom and Jack Quaid should become the John Ratzenberger of Star Trek. Like, they should just be in every single, like, property. - 100%. I would love that forever to the moon and back. Let's go ahead and jump into the last flight of the protostar part one, because I'm a little sleepy and forgot to watch part four. And also we didn't advertise, we're talking about it, so we'll retain the spoilers so that you can continue to watch along with us. So they are marooned on Yisada. Where are they fine? A very broken and grumpy Chikote. He's so grumpy. - He's so grumpy. - I will say, I thought the montage of having to survive on the planet was cool, but if I had to watch him scrape eggs off of those fish one more time. - Like the plasma fish? - Yeah, it just wasn't like, the sound didn't, it was like, that weird squishy sound that I was like, oh, I don't want to hear this repeated. It's not giving me, it's not making me happy. - I'm trying to figure out why he didn't eat the fish, but... - I mean, maybe he's eating some of the fish, but I guess it's like the sustainability of it all. - Like, there's a part where like... - They also might not taste good if they live in a sulfur gas cloud. - But there's even eggs already, yeah, the eggs are great, that's like... - But like, you know... - I don't like caviar, but I don't like salmon, but I like caviar. - Holograms, the way it goes, like, but there's plenty of food, you know, you know, come in, we have plenty of food. You're like, not according to Yisada. - Well, he might, he made the point of trying to save power, so maybe it was like, oh, well, save on having to use the replicator. He could also just be like, I don't know, just gonna live off the land, I'm sad. (laughs) - I like, you know, yeah, I guess, I guess like, it wasn't my favorite setup. It was beautiful, but like, you know. - Yeah, I thought the planet design was really cool. - Yeah, but they go like, oh, well, what we did was we ejected the protocore, and we ejected the artwork where I go, why? Why would you do that? Like, we can-- - So, we did have the ship to fly. - Well, I guess the protocore, okay. So, is it in the protocore or is it just in the ship? The kind of malicious code. - It's in the computer of the ship. - Yeah, it's underneath the bridge, it just sitting there. - So his thought was we maroon the ship so that no one can ever take it from this planet. - Yeah, sure. - That's the thought. - Well, why do they have to, like, their shuttle craft, they have a 3D printer of things. They could 3D print a shuttle craft, and then the pros start to the sun for all, you know? - I mean, all of, sitting into the sun would have probably been a good idea. I'm with Dao, though, I think it was Dao, maybe it was Janko. Like, why that planet? Like, of all the planets you could have ruined yourself on, you didn't want to ruin yourself on, like, rise of, you know what I'm saying? Like, who is your planet? Like, that's what you do. - That's gonna be where there's no, like, you know, humanoid lifeline. - Yeah, but if you're gonna eject the core, then it wasn't badder, right? It can't move. - Because who's gonna look it up on a Type-P planet, apparently? I don't know. - I did, like, the whole crew essentially being like, you know, I liked Janeway being all like, I don't know why I'm telling you all this. It feels like we've known each other, which is a strange thing for a hologram to feel. But I get it. And then I did, like, them all essentially being like, we're gonna just, like, do everything in our power to cheer up, grumpy, Chikote. - Which rightfully grumpy, lost his entire crew, went down with the ship, like, so much grief to process. Like, when you say it lost, like, you know, like, I feel like he just made a bad choice and it kind of doomed everyone to that bad choice. Like, you know, he seems pissed for, like, you know, choosing something that, you know, like, he could have chosen a different way. And which, here's the thing that I don't understand. It's like, okay, what did Dahl and everyone say that made him change his mind? - Well, I don't think they, I think it was finally seeing the sacrifice that a dreak made and, like, getting closure on a dreak. - Well, and I think it's that and that he saw that a dreak was able to come up with the antimatter, right? So it's like-- - He was right. - He was right. And I kind of note, like, it's easy to be mad at somebody who's just out there, right? You're like, oh, they're over there. They're having fun, like, whatever. Like, when you really see them as kind of gone, then it's like, oh, like, it does hit you a different way. So I think he was like, look, my friend who I was mad at for leaving is, like, I got that closure. And he was right, ultimately, he did it. He pulled it off. He sacrificed himself to prove, to really do this, to stay grumpy and keep stranded. He feels like it would dishonor his memory. - Yeah, I also think he finally remembered what it meant to be a captain in some ways, right? 'Cause he's essentially been crewless for 10 years. And then having these, like, kids show up and essentially be like, hey, like, we can actually fix this if you will believe in us. And like, we believe in this so much that we're gonna just, like, scrub solar panels until you're willing to listen to us. And then seeing, like, I have a feeling that I was seeing the rest of our little ragtag crew come around to save doll that he was like, oh, this is, like, what it means to be a part of a crew again. Maybe. - I guess, like, if it can tap into your cold, cold heart, Paul? - Like, you know, like, I have processors that, like, you know, have been programmed to assimilate this information and, like, you know, and provide an appropriate, mostly response. So, like, hmm, maybe. - I don't know. I thought it was just doll going, doll going and saying, oh, like, the computer is not a problem where the Federation has solved it. - But that was an early episode, you know? - And so, like, so that's what I don't, that's why I really just don't get, like, you know, like, here, here you are. You're the captain of the crew. And all of a sudden, you go, okay, what we're gonna do is we're gonna maroon everyone. - Well, there wasn't anyone else on the ship, but him and Adriq. - Sure. And you're like, okay, so, like, we're gonna maroon us. And then somewhere along the way, Adriq goes, like, whoops, that was a mistake, right? That's what he had to do in order to go, like, okay, let me see if I can find some antimatter. - Mm-hmm. - And I don't know. - Yeah, well, I mean, maybe he was, like, if I can find some antimatter, we can at least power, you know, to your point, the giant 3D printer and print something to get us off of this God for taking place. - Or a mistake. If we can just power the ship, then maybe it's not so bad. I don't have to eat fish eggs and I can eat a nice Philly cheesesteak or an Italian beef sandwich, or-- - Look, like, all these things are very true. Like, basically, it's just making me go, like, ah, like, you choosing to do this jakote seems like I don't trust your judgment. - Well, what makes you say that? - Well, like, you know, just the choosing of a rooting yourselves. Like, don't make sure to stand me. I understand. I understand going, like, oh, we can't get back to the Federation. But truth be told, like, there are many ways that they could have just gone, hey, I'm here, send it through, like, you know-- - Well, no, as soon as they made contact with the Federation, right? - I know. - I think that was the whole thing with the weapon. - That's why you just go to some Klingons and go, hey, tell the Federation blah, blah, blah, blah, that we're alive and blah, blah, blah. - But you think the Klingons would be like, why are you having us talk through you? You have access to a weapon, and now we want that weapon? - Well, like, like, my response is like, yes, maybe not the Klingons, but there are tons of people in Star Trek is big. - Right. - So, like, there are tons of people you could go to. You could go to the Ferengi. You could pay them in Latin. I don't know. But like, you know, there just seems to be another way. This is a, I understand that it was a very cinematic way of putting it together. And I don't, I don't, I don't resent the storytelling where resent is like the justification of the storytelling. Like, you wouldn't be totally fine if like, we wound up crashing and we've been stuck here. I'll be totally fine with that. Like, you know, but like, we went through the portal, you know, the wormhole, something happened. We crashed here. It was probably for the best. And, you know, I have no problem with that. But, but to put the rationale up there, to give this extra bit, like, makes me go like, oh, now I'm pulling at those threads. That's it. But like, what do I know? Like, you just seem like-- - Yeah. - Great old patriarch. - I'll be interested in, I might do a rewatch because I wonder if it was more like, a dreak was like, oh, we could use this power to get us out of here, but to leave the ship. But then he just didn't move like, but a dreak had a plane all along and it required sailing the ship first. So I don't know. - Yeah, it's okay. It's okay. Like, this is where like, there's, it's an emotional episode designed to be that way. So like, I'm not faulting it so much. - And I do, well, I wonder if that was like, part of why Chikote was feeling so guilty was because essentially him and a dreak were in conflict of what, how to deal with the ship. And so Chikote might have been like, I am the captain, we're ejecting these things and we're crashing the ship. And then a dreak is like, maybe finally talked him into being like, I think we have to go back and find like a way to disarm this weapon. And a dreak's like, I'm gonna find a way to power the ship. Blow a blob, they have an argument. You know, I'd be interested in flashback, you know? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, me too, me too. Maybe it's in episode 12 or maybe not. - I don't know, I don't know. I did like the worm sand tunnel chase. - The Beetlejuice? - Yeah, the Beetlejuice sand worms was fun. - Yeah, no, that was impressive. - The plasma Beetlejuice is great, I love him. - And I did like a lot of the like the Easter eggs and I learned this from Tom Paris and like that, like and that, you know, we say Beetlejuice. It, again, there's a thousand reasons why I look at this and I'm like, this is not a kid's mood. It could show anymore because they're, these references feel like they are definitely targeted to us. - But I think so many kids programming is made that way. Like I think that's part of that is so that parents are like, this is fine to have on because I also enjoy this. But there's things that go over like specific age groups like heads in some ways 'cause like, like most kids programming is also required to have like essentially like an education consultant to be like, is this something that is going to help children? Like there's a lot of non-educational stuff up. Like I'm like, yeah. - But I feel like they, they slip it in. It's like problem solving, camaraderie, they're social emotional learning that you have to include. It's not all just like, this is a math lesson or like this is Dr. Aaron. It is about like telling you and showing you how to problem solve, how to have a tough conversation with friends, how to have relationships with friends. Like those are all things that are part of social emotional growth for children. - Mm-hmm. - You will Clyde. - You know, I think, you know, I've seen kids programming evolve, right? Like there's been the, this is directed just to kids. There's the-- I mean, I used to watch Ren and Stimpy and that for sure. - No. - Was not made for you. - No. - It explains a lot though, look at you. - Yeah, I watched all of the most fucked up cartoons. - You're emotionally and mentally hideous. - Stented. (laughing) - But I do think there's, there's a lot of cartoons that are, that are built to say, hey, look, we want this show to be appealing to both children and adults so that they can watch together. Like I went, I went to see Despicable Me with my four, five year old nephew. And like it was me, V, my nephew and my brother. And the second time he was watching it and he was, you know, just having a good old time. I kept on falling asleep. And for a loud movie that's saying something, I don't think I was that tired, but like V was just like, oh, this is such a clever movie to balance like, you know, like what's interesting for her versus like, what's interesting to the kids? 'Cause the kids are gonna get musical cues. They're not gonna get all these things that are, are references, but like it's not important to because the- - The minions serve everything. - Because it works without the reference. And just like, you know, like for us in this show, without the reference, it still works. So I think in that way, I think it's good that way. - Yeah, the first time I saw something that I, I won't say the first time I saw it, but the first time I noticed it was really Disney's Aladdin, the original. Because there's a scene- - It can show you the world. - Well, not that, but yes, but the genie- - But you never have her like me? - No, the genie comes out and he's doing a bunch of things. And one of the things he does, is he does this whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo, as our studio hall. And I'm like, he just did a reference to a late night talk show host, but this is geared toward kind of children. - Sure. - And my mother, I remember my mother laughing so hard at Aladdin, 'cause she was like, this is the first thing you've watched that I actually could watch and not be like, why am I watching this? And so there's more of that now. I mean, parents will tell you like my mother laughs and she was like, I need my grandchildren to come over so that I have a legitimate reason to watch Bluey. And the truth is she's like, we all watch Bluey when the kids aren't around. 'Cause it's just so clever. And there are all these kind of references and things that just make sense. I think Star Trek in this case is in that realm, but I looked at it and I was like, at this where they're at now, it's far too scary for my children to watch. My six-year-old would have nightmares about. - It is rated seven and up. - There we go, thank you. - I don't know that my 12-year-old would be that happy about it either, but like the sandworms and the loom, that stuff is scary, like the tension is really high. We got to toughen up some of these kids. We need our weirdos to be maintained, okay? - I love that, right? Like you got like none of this like pampering of children. Like, you know. - No, make them scared. - That's right. - I was watching like Night of the Living Dead. I was watching The Last Unicorn, that is a deep dark week cartoon. - Intellectually and emotionally hideous. (laughs) - Running stimpy. - The stuff that we watched, like it's so interesting, 'cause I talk to parents all the time and we joke about that. We joke about the stuff that we watched. It's you wanna go, what were my parents thinking? - The original animated Hobbit, I'm sorry, I'm just like. - No, there's a bunch of them and I think about things like that. - The land before time, the saddest movie ever made. - It is, I mean, it's a toss-up between the land before time and iron giant. - The brave little toaster. - Like, if you don't cry at the iron giant, you'll have a heart. - Whoops, well. - I've never seen it, but. - Superman. (laughs) - There's a bunch of stuff, but I also think about like, how old was I when I watched Stripes for the first time? And I'm like, probably not old enough or police academy? - Like, I think, I think, you know, and this is in the spirit of this, but like, I think once upon a time shows and media was basically keep up. You know, like, so the expectation was for me to, to like, if I'm gonna enjoy this, like, it was gonna be up to me to be like, are you gonna be able to deal with someone getting shot? If you're not, shouldn't watch it. Like, you know, there was, there wasn't that like, you know, like, for me, one of the scariest things that I had watched, and it still like scars me to this day, it is an episode of Buck Rogers in the 24th century where it has the space vampire. And in retrospect, I watch it now and I go, this is campy and dopey as hell, you know, but like, kid me watches it, and I'm gonna like, oh my God, this is so scary. And there's a part of my programming. I go like, oh, this is real scary. Like, you know, even now, like, oh, like, if I'm in the wrong mindset, I go like good, the willies. But that was, I think a lot of media consumption-wise, like, you just had to keep up. Like, you know, and so like, I suppose to like, protecting kids' feelings right now. - Yeah, for me, it was definitely Kujo. I don't know why anyone let me see that at our earlier age. - But if not like, do you see dogs all around? - I mean, I was terrified. - Like, why does a North Hollywood happen about dogs? - Yeah, but like, I probably wouldn't watch Kujo today. Like, I'm like, there's no need for me to watch that. - I bet if you watch it, you go like, this is dopey. And at the same, there's another part of your mind goes, like, fear, fear, Kujo is real. - Yeah, it's a hard pass. I didn't even want to find out. - Yeah, I mean, that's an interesting point, 'cause I think a lot about like, Rod Sterling, when creating the Twilight Zone, used to say all the time, like, you should never write down to your audience. You should always write up and expect them to come along with you. And I do wonder how the algorithm and tech companies buying Hollywood has slowly changed that. (laughs) - I mean, like, I think people are forgetting or they're over correcting or whatever. Like, like kids actually watch to aspire. Like an eight-year-old isn't gonna watch other eight-year-olds. That's not what they want to see. They want to see 14-year-olds because they, you know, that's something to grow into. - Yeah, that's why we, I mean, but it's why we like read like the boxcar kids or like the babysitter's club goosebumps. Like, those were all like that young YA stuff, but that were about slightly older teenagers. - I would say it depends. Like, I've got a 12, almost 13-year-old. And I've seen, and I have a C-shirt roll, and I've seen, some of it is, they want to see themselves reflected in the stuff they watch. So they want to see stuff about stuff that they can relate to, things that they understand. Like, she doesn't necessarily want to see high school stuff, right? Like, she's now getting to that point. So I think they're pockets, where she's starting and her and her friends, they're starting to watch stuff that's slightly older. It's kind of like, when you're in early middle school, you want to see kind of late middle school, early high school, like you can watch some of that. But for the most part, stories about people trying to get their license and dating, like, that's not where her head's at right now. And so she's more interested in about like the rebooted babysitter's clubs, where that's kind of more aligned, her, she likes to love that show. - Well, have you considered that it might be a failure of parenting? - It's probably, or a success of parenting. - Yeah, that sounds like a success. (laughing) - If I can keep her away from my own, you know. - I swear I'm a totally fine human being. - That's right. - So keep her letting me watch lots and lots of fun. - It's hideous, emotionally, mentally, like, intellectually, morally. - But to that point though, I do find that, one, the amount of choices that kids have for viewing, is infinitely more than we had, right? Like, they can find the stuff that really speaks to them. And it's more nuanced. And it is more, some of it's more aspirational, some of it's, I mean, some of it's gotten really, really clever. And I think some of that is because you've got more writers who are thinking about the psychology of their audience, than they did when, you know, when we were kids, it felt like they were just trying to make us laugh, right? Like, I think about things like, you know, Nickelodeon's hey dude, right, and stuff like that. I did too. - Like, for me, I just watched like, you know, there was once upon a time, 'cause I'm a little older than you guys, where cartoons were really for Saturday mornings. - Mm-hmm. - And so like, I would watch "Super Friends" and "Gummy Bears." (laughing) - Yeah, exactly. - Turbo Teen, some Voltron. Turbo Teen, like as an example, and we are way off the reservation here, but Turbo Teen is a cartoon about a teenage boy who, when his temperature rises, too hot, turns into a Corvette. Okay. - I think that's what it's called. - There's no, there's no educational value in that. - Yeah, but that's basically Scooby-Doo. Like, it's, - I think I'm Scooby-Doo. (laughing) - Right, it's, - Now, welcome to like nostalgia talk. - Yeah, I was like, to get us back on track. I know y'all have pre-watched the next episode, but I'm excited to see how they managed to get the ship back up and running. I thought the burial scene for a drink was very sweet and very, I thought like, a really beautiful way to explain like grief, I think, in a way that is - - It's appropriate for kids. - It's appropriate for your kids. - For above seven, it is rated for above seven. - Yeah, look, it's a, to me, I'll say it, it's a hell of an episode. - Yeah, for all my complaints about it, I think it's one of the better episodes of a very good season. - I'm still just in shock because, you know, last week, having seen the first two episodes, my thought was the first episode was really, really strong. Two, three, four, five and six were just, oh, and seven were just okay. And I was like, like, I remember thinking, like, oh, I've got to push through and I got to watch these episodes. And you hit between eight, nine, 10, 11 and 12. And I'm just - Hot damn. - I'm like, wow. They're really trucking. And I think they're really nailing, I think, in this middle sequence here, the interesting and good balance between character development for me, as well as, like, pushing the plot forward, which I think can be difficult, but I'm seeing growth amongst our characters in different ways. And, like, literally for zero, it was a full transformation, which, like, what an episode, to really, like, ground some emotional core and character development before really diving into heavy plot for three episodes. But the plot was moving at such a rapid and exciting pace that I didn't really mind some of the larger expedition dumps. - Oh, well, all good. - Oh, good. Anything else to add about these three apps and next week we will watch four episodes? - Wait, so we're gonna watch four apps or we're gonna watch five apps? Like it is. - We'll watch four. - Okay. So, I'm coming around on Commander Tysus, a bit. - Yeah, I enjoyed the way he was, like, so protective of Mazal. And then, like, I also, yeah, I think he's a really good number one. - So, do his job? - One chain way, yeah. - You really liked how he did his job? - Yeah, I liked how he did his job. But I thought he, it was, like, you know, he seemed like such a grump. Again, like I was saying, like, I think there's been interesting character development even with our, like, adult B characters, essentially, you know? - Sure, sure. They had a villain, kind of a B plot villain, kind of feel to them, vibe to them when we first started. Like, they were gonna be-- - Like the grumpy adults. - Yeah. - And now they're-- - And now they're more-- - They love to call people who do their job villains. Like, Shaw, and like, you know, like, he didn't love, like, oh, how come you're not giving my people privilege? Like-- - It's not about privilege. Like, I actually agree with some of what Tysa says. - You should agree with everything Tysa said. Like, he's doing this very, like, protocol stuff. Like, it's all very-- - It's just, it all felt weird. Like, it wasn't, it was very, like, contentious. Like, she's asked them to, like, specifically to be on the ship. And I treated them, like, well, why are you here? Like, 'cause they were invited. - Yeah, it's proving worth. But I think even seeing how the crew reacted when they were all essentially willing to, like, not follow the orders as given to them by our evil badmoral vibes. - Man, Jellico. - Who? - Jellico. Oh, Jellico. - Again, you just don't like people who, like, have, like, reasons to do things. Like, hey, I will say, like, Jellico is not my favorite. - Yeah, he's a terror, he's a terror. - Like, like, like, like, you know, like-- - Brad Brown on the same page. - Even I have limits, but, like, you know. But he did, like, defeat the cauterosians. - You know, I guess we'll give that to him. Anything else about these episodes, Jell? - I'm good, I'm good. I'm sorry. We're sorry I went too, like, so much into, like-- - Ms. Salja talk. - It's fine. There's always a small spin-off podcast within our podcast, so. - That's right. - And next week on "80s Cartoon Talk", we'll be discussing the merits of Voltron versus Robotech. - Be prepared. You can subscribe, right, and review on Apple. Share the show with a friend. Do all of you have friends who are watching Prodigy? And, like, they want to talk about it and hang out with us. Like, let us know. I did look, and there weren't any updates on Comic-Con stuff. I think that's all sort of happening later this weekend. But we will keep you all posted. I know our pals over at Strange Newport are doing on the ground coverage. Giraffe already looking like a boss in her incredible cosplays. So go follow her on Instagram. You can follow us on Twitter and I will try to get better at posting on Instagram because Twitter is a hellscape. And we appreciate you all for being here tonight. We'll see you next time. Live long and prosper, y'all. Bye-bye. - Bye, everyone. - Bye-bye. (upbeat music) (dramatic music)
