Disc Golf Daily

A DGPT History: Jeff Spring, DGPT Early Days - S0E8

summary In this conversation, Jeff Spring, the director and CEO of the Disc Golf Pro Tour, discusses his journey into disc golf and his role in propelling the Pro Tour to its starting point. He talks about how he was introduced to disc golf and his early experiences playing and teaching the sport. Jeff also shares the story of how disc golf was brought to Smuggler's Notch Resort and how the Green Mountain Championship came about. He discusses the decision to join the Pro Tour and the planning process that went into it. Jeff also talks about the importance of creating a fun and engaging experience for disc golfers and spectators at tournaments.

keywords disc golf, Pro Tour, Jeff Spring, history, introduction, playing, teaching, Smuggler's Notch Resort, Green Mountain Championship, tournaments, planning, Fall Fest, infrastructure, extra events takeaways Jeff Spring's introduction to disc golf came through playing frisbee and frolf at summer camp. He had a background in traditional golf and architecture, which influenced his interest in disc golf course design. Jeff played a key role in bringing disc golf to Smuggler's Notch Resort and establishing the Green Mountain Championship. The decision to join the Pro Tour was driven by a shared vision for the future of disc golf and the desire to provide more resources for professional players. Creating a fun and engaging experience for disc golfers and spectators is a priority at tournaments.

Duration:: 30m
Broadcast on:: 02 Aug 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

Jeff Spring's introduction to disc golf came through playing frisbee and frolf at summer camp.
He had a background in traditional golf and architecture, which influenced his interest in disc golf course design.
Jeff played a key role in bringing disc golf to Smuggler's Notch Resort and establishing the Green Mountain Championship.
The decision to join the Pro Tour was driven by a shared vision for the future of disc golf and the desire to provide more resources for professional players.
Creating a fun and engaging experience for disc golfers and spectators is a priority at tournaments.

(upbeat music) - This week on a DGPT history, we're joined by Jeff Spring. For people who know Jeff Spring today, Jeff is the director and CEO of the Disc Golf Pro Tour. Before though, in the history of the Pro Tour, Jeff came on actually as one of the first events. And so one of the things that I'm really looking forward for us talking about today is not just how Jeff got into Disc Golf, but also how Jeff helped, I think, in some ways propel the Pro Tour to starting. And so, first off, Jeff, thanks for being here. - Yeah, thanks for having me. Great to see you, Seth, as always, and excited to talk about this. - Yeah, so the one thing I like to ask as we sort of get into the podcast is, what got you into Disc Golf? How were you introduced to Disc Golf, and where did you start playing? - Yeah, well, I started in 2008 with my first official round at Center Chains in Waterbury Center, Vermont. I was introduced by one of my best friends, Josh Seavright, who I grew up with in Central Vermont. And we had gone to summer camp together and then started working there. My first job was, I think, when I was 15, I was a summer camp counselor. And through the years, you do a lot of outdoor activities at summer camp, and one of them was playing catch, you know, playing Frisbee, playing ultimate. And then as I became a counselor, I started teaching kids how to throw Frisbees. And one of the most fun free-time activities was Frolf. And I got taught by a counselor, and then that would be the free-time activity that I always was leading, because counselors got to choose what they offered. So how do you either do storytelling or Frolf? Those are my two favorites to offer to kids. And, you know, at the camp, you know, it's like throw from the dining hall steps to the flagpole or, you know, from cabin 12 to that pine tree. And you would let the kids choose their own hole. They could design their own hole. The background for me is that I played traditional golf since I was about eight. My dad was a golfer and he gave me a cut-down club. And so I was, you know, starting in high school, competing on the varsity high school golf team. And I would travel around the state, get out of class early. It was a fun varsity sport to play. So that combined with, you know, architecture and design interest from me, I went to college. I actually originally went as an architecture major. So, but in high school and before that, I would get graph paper and sketch out and design courses. And so when I was playing Frolf with the kids, it really all kind of, it was very interesting. I would always try to find the most interesting hole or throw through a gap or, you know, around an obstacle. And so after I got out of college in 2008, about fall, my friend Josh, who introduced me to this golf, that was my first round, he said, "You're not gonna believe this." He said, "What?" And he goes, "Frolf is real." And I was like, "Wow, I don't know what that means." But I had to go to the course and see it. And it was like within a couple throws with a golf disc versus a Frisbee that everything really clicked into place in terms of my excitement and vision for what, you know, my involvement and interest in the sport would be. So I just, you know, I got one to turn over without the nose up and I was just like hooked. You know, played probably two rounds a day for the next three, four, five years and just really, you know, focused on my competition career and started playing in the Green Mountain Disc Golf Club point series. And so that's kind of my launch. - Awesome, so you get into disc golf a few years later. I know, and I think some people hopefully listen. No, you ended up at a Smugglers Nont resort. And so at Smugglers Nont resort, I think if I understand correctly, you were sort of a part of the team that brought disc golf to the resort. So I'd love to hear sort of like what that idea process looked like and how it took shape into eventually what it became today. - Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, after I stopped after, I think nine seasons of working at the summer camp, I got, I was working seasonally in outdoor education and one of the seasons was being a ski instructor at Smugglers Nontch. And I got approached by them to, you know, be a summer camp manager for their summer camp program, which I took them up on in 2011 and in the fall, the director of the ski and ride school, what I'm attorney to leave. So I was elevated to the operations director of the ski and ride school and started, you know, that career, which lasted for a while, but the next winter, the owner and Bill Stritzler, Smugglers Nontch resort started looking for any disc golf resources that the resort might have because the resort did a deal to bring on wind them, to manage part of its real estate and become part of the wind them family. And the global vice president for resort development, Alan Litwack of wind them is a big disc golfer and in Orlando, he would play on lunch breaks with their team and instead of taking a four hours to play golf, they would do like, you know, an hour nine hole disc golf match and the loser would pin a jester hat on their door. So he brought the excitement to our ownership at Smugs and I was just there to take advantage of the serendipity of that moment. And I told Bill, hey, I'm the director of the ski and ride school and summer camps here. I had known him, you know, a little bit, just in meetings, operations meetings and stuff. And he said, well, let's think about this. And they had had a small disc golf activation that was not necessarily used or successful, kind of just like on a trail. And I said, well, why don't we use that land but expand it and make a real disc golf course? I had been at North callus disc golf club as my first home course, which in this intervening time of learning disc golf, I'd been thirsty for any disc golf and I found North callus, which is a hidden gem there in Vermont. So I'd helped, I designed a course at the summer camp. I had helped with the expansion and design of North callus. And I said, you know, I'd really like to take this up. So in 2012, you know, we got a budget and designed the first iteration Brewster Ridge, which launched July 4th and, you know, was the first step in the Smuggs disc golf history as like one of several things I started doing for the resort at that time. Cool. So yeah, so the course starts. And like you said, it's sort of like even the first iteration of Brewster Ridge. But with the course, if I understand correctly, came the idea of hosting tournaments, you know, bringing in those events. And so, you know, right now, Smuggler's not sure maybe outside of worlds is most well known for the Green Mountain Championship. And the Green Mountain Championship existed for a few years before it was on the Pro Tour. So how did like that tournament come about or like even I guess taking a step back, the idea of running tournaments at Smuggler's notch come about? Well, Bill is an interesting and visionary owner. And so his mantra to us as we got the project going is, if we're going to dive into something, we want to be the best at it. And he asked for some KPIs, you know, how can we measure this? And one was the course rating on disc golf course review, which we did break into the top 25 in short order. And the second was hosting World Championship. So right before we launched, that was the long-term goal. So we needed to kind of take step-by-step to prove success and hit our benchmarks and work towards worlds. So, you know, we had kind of had a goal of 10 years. So, you know, even before that, I think it was 2010, I first went to the Vibram Open at the time. And then, you know, kind of just went down in 2012 to the USDGC and started, you know, going to some of the biggest and best tournaments in the world and the best courses in the area or, you know, in the region. And trying to understand what the top level of disc golf was in terms of professional competition and course design. So we quickly dove into tournaments. 2012, we had an exhibition, but in 2013, we launched the Brewster Ridge Open in the spring and the Green Mountain Championship in the fall. In 2013, we also put nine holes in called the Fox Run Meadows. And it was just the nine holes closest to the disc golf center, which would expand over 2014 into an 18 hole course that goes around the basin as well, which is now basically Fox Run. We brought Steve Brinstrand to help design that in 2013 and '14 and he's the co-designer with me on that course now. But in 2013, the GMC was 27 holes. In 2014, it was 27 holes as well. And Ricky came, Ricky Wysocki came and won the first GMC. And I think Val came in 2014 and won one. And Lewis was the first FPO and 2013 champion. So that was kind of the history as we approached 2015, which is the first year we did two 18 hole courses and a GMC in the iteration that we think of it now. But during my travels, like I had gone to Worlds in 2014, Portland Open, which was really a seminal moment for me seeing what was about 3000 people watching that Ricky Paul playoff battle for a World Championship. And then 2015, being at the Pittsburgh Worlds in 2013, I was able to caddy for Steve Brinstrand when he won the USDGC. So those are the moments that kind of like got me going. In 2013, we went down and were a vendor at Maple Hill. So I got to know Steve, even though I'd been there a couple of years, 2013 and '14 were eventing and had that relationship and talking about Smugs. And I think that in early 2015, I had started hearing whispers that the PDGA was looking at a new type of tour. Well, that wasn't true. It was actually Steve going to the PDGA. And I found that out when he started talking to me and saying, hey, would you guys be interested in joining this new iteration of what a tour could be? There's also whispers, I think, about another tour, which ended up being the just called World Tour. And I had not really gotten to know UC at that time and I'm not sure if we had contacts as he prepared his launch. I don't think we did. But, you know, as we got towards USDGC, you know, I started hearing that Steve was unsure if it would go and he was getting some friction. And he had then, before the USDGC messaged me and said, "Hey, it doesn't look like it's gonna be approved to do it." So we're not sure. And kind of brought us to that point where Nate Heynell and I were both at the USDGC in 2015. And Nate had a high level of enthusiasm for the concept and asked if I would still be excited and involved if it did move forward. And we just had a brainstorming session and, you know, I don't think Steve was actually on site, but I think Nate actually called him and said, "Hey, you know, Jeff is still in, you know, if you're in." And we just talked about, you know, the importance of progressing, you know, what was the national tour to maybe the next level and providing, you know, more resources for pros. I had, you know, kind of been with a lot of the pros and heard what the players were saying too, you know? So that was kind of that path into that moment where, you know, it's talking to Nate. I was understanding a little bit more about the PDGA's perspective on the concept of a tour and hearing a little bit more about the behind the scene politics of like the board and the PDGA executive director at the time and their concerns. And, you know, why, you know, maybe it's a no for them, but, you know, at the end of the day, the message from the PDGA was, you know, kind of do a proof of concept. And that's where, you know, you know, Nate's encouragement and my buy-in and kind of alignment on the vision around that time, I think, from talking to Steve through the years, he said, you know, that was really important. Obviously, he needed the buy-in of some strong events, but it seemed like we gave him the nudge he needed to say, okay, let's just do it. - Yeah, and so I think you covered some things where I didn't have to ask questions. We got through most of where we're going. I think that, you know, one of the things that has come up in some of the other interviews was sort of how integral, like you going down and vending or like being a presence at the Vibrom open was to sort of helping establish the legitimacy of the complex. I think it smokes, you know, it's so interesting. One of the things that even like when I was talking with Mike Downs about sort of how everything came together, like one of the questions from the beginning was like, man, Vermont's so far up north, can we get people to come to it, right? But I think that it's sort of like the, it's a testament to the quality of the courses and really to the legwork that you put in and that, you know, the support of the ownership of Smackler's Nudge to actually build that out, really helped build the event up. And so I guess to all of this stuff about the back politics and whatnot, I guess maybe just give us a little bit more insight into how, you know, like there were, you know, obviously Smackler's on this timeline to try to get to worlds. And so in your mind or in maybe the whole group's mind, you were working towards maybe being on the national tour, but at the same time, you've been talking to Steve about his ideas. So like where was it really that sort of made the delineation, I guess, for you and maybe even if Nate was involved like on, oh, we're going to go with the pro tour over trying to push for the national tour or wait for a major. - Yeah, I think Nate had maybe been a national tour, legstone at that point in time and he had taken some, some significant feedback, I think from players and started kind of working to elevate, you know, the perception of the event. We had thought about putting in a national tour bed and never, I think, actually pulled the trigger. I think when we were talking in 2015, about 2016, 'cause we felt, hey, we've gotten both of the courses in, they're well regarded, they're highly rated, we've got, you know, and I think to your point, we did a lot of grassroots work with the pros, just I built relationships, you know, I went to a lot of the big events, whether it's Worlds, USDGC or MVP. And, you know, I think there was a lot of belief and we had strong fields anyway that, you know, Vermont would work. So when I did talk to the PDG about a national tour event, they said, you know, you could bid maybe next year for 2017 and it kind of opened the door for, like, I mean, if they had said, hey, listen, we want to put you on in 2016, it could, maybe it would have gone differently. But at that point in time, you know, I think it was, you know, hey, you know, we've got it set, you know, for next year. So we were internally at SMUG saying, you know, we should elevate this so we can prepare for a Worlds bed. So whether it was a national tour or the pro tour, I think that there was some interest in 2015. When I started digging in and hearing a little bit more about the politics and the vision, I think it became really clear to me that, you know, the step that we needed to make was towards the pro tour. Not because the national tour wasn't great, but just because there was a different vision of what, you know, the pro tour could be and mean for the touring pros and for the industry and the sport. And so there was like, you know, hearing and seeing that future and knowing that there's, you know, like passionate drive towards that and knowing that it would be a dedicated entity going towards that, I think kind of helped make the decision. But it did seem like at that, at that point in time, it was like, hey, we want to host Worlds. So let's get this going. And then, you know, we launched. - Yeah. And so I think one of the things that even I learned as we got into some of the other interviews so far with this season is that, so you and Nate, right, meet at USCGC, you start brainstorming. And for any people who have followed sort of the history of the tour, there may be more aware outside of you as the GMC tournament director as sort of coming on in 2019 as the tour director. But the reality is that, you know, if you go all the way back to right after that meeting with Nate, I understand correctly, maybe more so Nate than you, but you, Nate and Steve spent quite some time meeting and sort of fleshing out, maybe even more so than the other tournament directors that were in 2016. And so maybe talk to us about sort of like what that timeline after the USCGC was in like helping Steve sort of get a brain trust, maybe, of people to sort of think about fleshing out what a tour could look like. - Yeah, you know, I think that the main discussions on my end were around how the points would work, how some of the scores and the stats would work. And then we served in 2016, not only as a GMC, but as a tour championship. So, you know, kind of thinking about like, how does that work? You know, it's your one will break away the tour championship in the future. But, you know, what are the, what's the points? And what's the structure of the GMC on the way there? You know, I remember a number of discussions about funny enough, like what is the circle gonna be called, circle one or circle two? And like what a putting stats look like? And what is the future of stats? And some of those conversations were going back and forth not just between me, Nate and Steve, but also between Matt and Josh at U-Disk and thinking about how to deploy that kind of stuff. So, those were, that was definitely like the central type of discussions that we were having. And for me, you know, I actually, as the season wore on, you know, I know that the other events we kicked off at Maple Hill, obviously. And you had, you know, Bradley and Chipmunk Gate and then a couple other bumps in the road on the way to the GMC. But, you know, behind the scenes, there were some kind of political machinations, whether it's Bradley's suspension and, you know, maybe just some conflict with the PDGA at the time, you know, and if they're being supportive, if they were being maybe a little feeling a little dubious about the tour and the direction. And so there's a lot of discussions about the relationship as well with the PDGA during that time that I was in as well. So, you know, I think that, you know, some of the early structuring, for sure, definitely the first tour championship in lining that up and getting that media product ready, which was really cool, I think, still. And foreshadowed, you know, a lot of what, you know, we're able to do now with multi-card coverage and whatnot, but yeah, that was the, that was a core of kind of like the advice. And yeah, I think Steve was good at like talking to folks and then getting off the phone, calling someone, I'll say, this is just what I, it was what I just talked about. What do you think about it? And so he would certainly be the center, the hub of the wheel and like, you know, I kind of think, you know, I was a spoke on it that, you know, was trying to keep that wheel structured and together. - Yeah, so the, so it sounds like to me, it was a pretty easy end, once the pro tour said, or once Steve said, hey, we're gonna start the pro tour, like you and Nate were pretty much on board immediately, and it just became figuring out things. So as, I guess, as you guys got into the planning process, were there any sort of like questions or concerns that you had leading into that? Or did you feel like because the event had already garnered so much positive reviews that it was going to be just like in it's home, I guess, on the tour? - Yeah, I mean, I didn't have questions or concerns, you know, really about the tour. I saw it as a step up in publicity, and, you know, from, you know, being one of maybe many eight years. And, you know, I had kind of developed somewhat of a relationship, certainly an admiration and an excitement for, you know, Steve's vision, for the sport and for his event. You know, I think, you know, really going down in Maple Hills since I think maybe 20, I don't think I went in 2009, but 2010, and like just enjoying it, you know, it was, you know, that's kind of where we were like, how are we gonna do something that matches the games and the contests and the ping pong and, you know, pool ball, you know, it's smugs. And so we came up with Fall Fest and started doing, you know, music and stuff. So, you know, there wasn't any, you know, I think the relationships were there and the trust is there. And it was kind of like, that definitely felt like pioneering like, hey, let's just jump in and do this, you know, and see where it goes. - Yeah, and I think that actually, after I asked that question and started thinking about it, really what I was sort of getting to, and I think is important to highlight, is that early on some of the like infrastructure things that we now see on the tour in regards to the extra side events, those things already did exist. And it's one of the reasons why like Maple Hill, Ledge Stone and GMC are not only still on the tour today, but sort of set the bar even at the time was because for GMC specifically, Fall Fest already existed. And I think that people, if they're newer to the tour may not realize that like some of those ideas, whether it's like having music at the event or having the games at the event, were already things that existed at these tournaments. It was really about finding what was working well for those entities and figuring out how to put it fully into a tour. And so I guess from the perspective of like Fall Fest, like how is that, I guess sort of helped you shape other ideas of what could be extra things at tournaments? - Yeah, I mean, it all kind of started with the idea that we need to make this fun for disc golfers that are coming to the event. And at that point in time, it was really like amateurs. But like, how do we break out of the disc golf bubble long term? And it's, hey, any event you go to, you want family fun, entertainment, things to do that go beyond just watching the competition or engaging in the competition. And yeah, we definitely targeted events that were able to do that or already doing that and put a premium on it. You know, as we've gone through the years, certainly, I think that has been a standard that we ask events to uphold, which is, you know, it's a balance between being very prescriptive versus just providing a structure and letting people fill in the blank. But certainly we say, here's the structure. We want entertainment outside of disc golf. We want good food and beverage available on site. We want things to do, whether they're games or a post-round tournament or meet the pros or, you know, a pro-am. And some of the stuff that we're doing now is realizing that disc golfers really love playing disc golf. And so some of the side events are play this, you know, nine whole course or play the other course at the event, or the support window open or the GMC. And kind of evolving, you know, as we've watched the Amms evolve from Amms to spectators, you know, there are some great big Amms sides, but we know that even beyond the Amms side, spectators come in that like disc golf, whether they like it or not, there's engagement for non-disc golfers and there's opportunities to play and enjoy your experience on site because that's definitely kind of what has evolved out of this, which is just, it's not just games, it's not just music, food and drink, but can we also offer what you really love about disc golf, which is playing it as well? And in blending the ability to play some holes with the ability to spectate the best in the world is kind of where we've evolved to, with all the side games there as well. - Yeah, so I like in this set of, or in this season, in season zero, I'm sort of like going through and talking to different people who helped plan the tour. And in this regard, outside of Steve, you and Nate are really the only two tournament directors that I'm talking to because you three sort of helped shape what that started with. And I want to close with a question that I guess kind of was brought to my attention, not something that I noticed, but in the annals of time in the great Wikipedia of the world, I think that it just says that it was Nate and Steve that had those conversations. Have you made any attempts to add your name to that? Or is that something that you feel slided about? - No, I don't feel slided. I think that Steve is the founder, the sole founder of the tour, and Nate and I, I would probably say that, and I don't know all the conversations Nate and Steve had, but I think that we both were advisors. I think as the initial season launched, I'm not sure how close Nate was and structuring things per se between conversations with he and Steve. But I know as the season ended and the tour championship came up and we were dealing with some real problems, I became an advisor at the end of that season and kind of moved into a little bit more of a role to help shape how things would go forward. And so I definitely feel some, a little bit of ownership in helping give my input and guide Steve as best I could, but I consider him the one and only founder of the tour. So I don't feel slighted at all in terms of any Wikipedia credit. - Awesome, so I love that we talked a little bit, you know, about 2016 as we get into season one, which really will be 2016. I look forward to really having you back to talk about sort of nitty gritty of that stuff. I think that there's, to your point, whether we want to get all the way into it or not, there's some background in 2016 that sort of helps lay the foundation for things that happen down the road. And it's one of the reasons the pro-tour history for me, the whole reason why I wanted to start this project is it's a really interesting subset of the disc golf history that I want to make sure while it's all fresh on our minds, we have it to tell. Because I think that as we get to the goals that everyone has for the pro-tour, I want us to all be able to look back and say, hey, this is where we started, you know, and we have the sort of oral history to prove it. So I really appreciate you taking the time today and I look forward, Jeff, to have me back on in season one to talk about 2016. - Thanks for having me, loved it. Talk soon. - Yes. - Awesome. (upbeat music) - Thank you so much for watching. Please like, subscribe, comment, and share. It really does help us grow. (upbeat music) (gentle music)