[Intro Music] Welcome to a special Monday edition of Wallowing in the Shallows, the podcast that skirts the perilous drop off of a deep dive into television and movies. We are academic nerds aspiring to become TV and movie geeks. We are no spoiler guards in the shallows, so listen at your own risk. This week, join us for a while in the Marvel Cinematic Universe as we chat the Marvels. [Intro Music] Hey hello peeps, welcome to Wallowing in the Shallows, this is Tori. And this is Rebecca, and today we are talking about the Marvel movie, The Marvels. Better late than never, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, I don't know why I didn't go see it in the theater, I couldn't like, anti-theatre lately because I'm like, I can buy it when it comes out and spend just maybe a couple bucks more. And that's only if I don't buy popcorn and something to drink at the theater. That's hard to argue against, and this one so quickly got panned, right? Yes. Well, it did, it was weird, I was looking up a bunch of stuff about it, and there seems to be real mix. I mean, it didn't do well at the box office, critics were kind of divided, the fans don't seem to be that divided about it. Fans, I mean like on Rotten Tomatoes gave it like an 82%, and all of the reactors that I've watched, they all really enjoyed it too, even New Rock Stars. I mean, and Jessica Clemens was on New Rock Stars, like loved this movie, you can see enough good things about it. I mean, not that they didn't of course find little things to, that could have been better, but I mean, the critics were really off, some of them were really, really awful about it. I was reading on screen rant, and there's this article called 10 Reasons the Marvel Reviews are the Marvel's reviews are so negative, and they kind of, like the first one they said, the comedy doesn't land. And I didn't, I hope you didn't hear my stomach grumble, you didn't hear my stomach. I don't know, I thought maybe, I think they needed a little bit more, maybe have some breaks between some of the comedy. You know, does that make sense? So you're saying they just kind of kept going funny to funny to funny without substance or? Well, I think it just needed maybe a little bit more seriousness at times, but I like the comedy it landed for me, for the most part, for the most part. Right, and what I'm going to say is this is not going to go down as my favorite Marvel movies, but it is far from my least favorite. And one that I really did not care for was Thor, Love, and Thunder. And that one could really be near the bottom to me. And I fear that a couple of types, this got a little bit into that humor, but nowhere as much or as often that I left just like that was not good. So there were other things that I really liked about this movie. Now the singing location and Captain Marvel dressed as a pretty princess and dancing around us kind of like, what has happened here? So there's an example where that felt like Thor in the fat suit or, you know, you kind of just like, wow, this is like over the top trying to be funny, but just weird. But the interaction between Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel, and Captain Rambo, I thought was fantastic. I did think the dynamic between the three of them was super cool. Yes, I agree with everything you just said that I think when I saw that dance scene or the singing planets scene, I thought of not just Love and Thunder, but I was actually just thinking about Ragnarok, right, like they were trying to inject some humor into a character who up to now had been pretty humorless, you know, and Thor was always in the early Thor's, Thor was always very serious about what he was saying, right? He wasn't trying to be funny, even though, of course, he would come across funny to us. But in Ragnarok, of course, they were really, they took Thor to a super comic level. And so I thought maybe they were trying to do a little bit of that with Captain Marvel. And so, particularly in that dance scene and the singing scene, I was like, ugh. But other than that, I think if they would have toned that singing planet scene down, that would have been better for me. But I thought the rest of the humor hit pretty well, and even in that scene, you know, there's some nice lines from, you know, Captain Rambo from Monica that I appreciated. And I didn't hate the singing planet idea, right? I loved when they were dancing down and this different custom of singing to welcome and singing as a language. And I guess once we found out that the Prince was bilingual, I was like, we could have just gone to that immediately. And not just had the intro and the singing, and then, oh, we can just talk to him and instead of all the singing with him first, they, they stated out of it anyway. So I think they could have, it wasn't that the singing planet should have been avoided full stop. I thought the costuming was beautiful, all the water. It was very visually appealing. And I liked the dancing just, yeah, it just kind of, I mean, they just could have jumped to that little sooner. Yeah, as soon as that one guy did his singing intro of them, you know, they should have, that whole Disney Princess dance scene didn't need to be there. And it would have been much better. I think you're exactly right. But they would have just started then talking instead of going immediately into that dance. That would have been better. But yeah, I love the colors and everything. And I liked having a love to Kamala Khan during that scene, because she was like, I'm going to get to dance with everybody. And you can see Monica's like a little bit like, Oh, yeah, I'm going to dance a little bit here. And, and one of the funny lines I loved was when that guy that was announcing them, it's like we have three new faces, one which could be friendly or something like that. That was good. That was good. That was good. And what you just described about Kamala Khan, how she was just wanted to be in it and was exuberant at the singing planet, I felt that way from her throughout the whole movie. Oh, yeah. Just she was happy to be there and so many great lines and some moments of self awareness, even though she's totally fangirling later, she's like, I'm sorry, I didn't give you a chance to be a human. I love that line, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She was just again, you and I loved the Ms. Marvel series. And I think she lived right up to all expectations I had of her in this movie that were frankly pretty high, given her and her family, loved that her family was in this as well. Yeah. And I thought they stole scenes, right, when the family was in them for the most part, not everyone, but most of them. Yeah. But there was a real growth arc for Kamala in this movie, right? Because she's the super exuberant fan girl. But I think when she saw she has this very romantic vision of what it is to be a superhero. And I think at that one planet, you know, we're all the scroll, they had to leave behind and we're killed. I think that for her started a growth, right? Like, oh, there's some real consequences. That come along with this particular job, right? And so I think we see that growth arc for her throughout this movie, which I really appreciated. But she still manages to retain that, um, Joanna Veeve that she has had in the series and so forth. So yeah, I thought, there's a little bit of hers, her name. Come on. Villani did a great job. But I think they all did. Pretty much. Some of the others, ones that, you know, some of the critics didn't like the villain was actually engaged. I don't know if you know this. Tom Hiddleston? Yes. Do you know, I just a quick interjection. I got to see her and Tom as well as who plays Daredevil, something Cox, Charlie, Charlie Cox. I saw her Tom Hiddleston and Charlie Cox on Broadway in the play the trail. It was a three person show and I was freaking out and I didn't know who she was at the time and I don't think her and Tom were together. That may have been the reason they got together because they did that together. But then I knew who she was. And so I, in fact, looked her up because I was like, gosh, that girl looks familiar. I feel like I saw her in something really serious. And sure enough, I recognized her from betrayal. And there you go. I thought she, I thought she was great. I liked that character. I, this is sometimes things I notice are so bizarre and off kilter, but I didn't like the way she moved her mouth. I was like, what is freaking me out about this character? And something about the way she was speaking and the way she was moving her mouth that didn't sit right with me. I thought she was, you know, as usual, somebody with a mission is off the rails. And came by it honestly, right? I mean, she, she, I believe she, I know she knew she was going to end up sacrificing herself to make this happen. She didn't know exactly when it was going to happen, but she was doggedly she could not be dissuaded. It doesn't matter if I die. If I'm able to save my home world, I'm, I'm, I'm a fair price for that. And I really respected that as a villa. Of course she did do just like you said, I mean, zealot behavior in bad news, right? But she was so die hard her people and had seen them destroyed and suffer. And then of course she turned that around on other people, but she really had a true intent that was, I mean, dare I say, selfless to, to save, save her people and save her people's home planet. And you, you just know that they have suffered and that she suffered. So, and you can understand her hatred for Captain Marvel as the reason for the suffering. That's one of the things I've always enjoyed about Marvel villains is their, like, sometimes are like, well, yeah, I totally understand where they're coming from, just like with Thanos, right? I was like, well, he's got a point. He's got some logic. Yeah. So, and that's what one of the things I always enjoyed about Marvel for the most part. I think they do their villains pretty well. So yeah, I didn't agree with that criticism. Some people complained about technical jargon and I was like, I don't, I didn't, I didn't bother me. I don't, did you notice, since this is kind of a sciencey point in Kamala's journal, it says physics sucks. I did not. I was like, I wonder if Rebecca saw that. I did not. Don't, I don't care for it, but I did not see it. Yeah. Yeah. And then there's this, the quantum band is a McGuffin and, you know, I, I'd heard that term before McGuffin and I'm, but I was like, what is a McGuffin? So had you heard that term before, do you know that term? Well, I have definitely heard it before. Isn't it like kind of like a red herring? Like you think this thing has the significance, but it's sort of like not or like go ahead and explain it to me. Yeah, I'm not, Miriam Webster says that a McGuffin is a plot device that lacks intrinsic importance, but drives the story forward, and it was actually coined by Alfred Hitchcock. So yeah, and they, they were referring to the, the quantum bands, which we heard were what part of Cree legend, which made me wonder, was it then the Cree that created all the time portals or it predates the Cree and it's just something that they've, you know, that's part of their lore. Hmm. I guess I guess I wouldn't have totally said they were completely McGuffin more than any other Marvel device. I mean, it wasn't like they came out of nowhere, we knew Kamala had, or Kamala had one of them. We didn't have their whole backstory. I feel like it kind of added and we found the other one, I, I, I guess it's all fiction. So it's all made up. Right. But this held together more than some other devices. Yeah. Yeah. So there was that. And then this one irritates me so much. Carol Danvers is too strong, and you would never see that criticism against a male superhero character. I hate it. Yeah. I mean, talk about remnants of the patriarchy and misogyny, Jesus. I mean, no, that's, that's very troubling. The, oh, the, the time that I have heard that and it's not a Marvel character is Dr. Manhattan. Yeah. I don't mean to watch. Watchmen, because he is just, he knows everything that's coming and he knows everything that's happened and blah, blah, blah, blah. So it's like he's God. Mm hmm. Right. Yeah. And so what do you do with a character that is that all knowing, right? And I guess really it was really more all knowing than powerful, though knowledge is power. Right. But that is the only example of a male character. And I think there's a point there. Yeah. Yeah. He literally knows everything that's happening. Right. Right. But so you might argue that Dr. Strange has a similar kind of situation. Yeah. And you don't hear that about him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. In fact, Forbes did an article kind of almost all about that. And the title of it is the Marvel's face is anti-woke backlash because Captain Marvel of it got a big backlash too. So what was some of this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, conservative some waged war on Disney for months and this article was written back in November of 2023, conservative some waged war on Disney for months criticizing several of its films and shows for focusing on racial diversity and LGBTQ themes and for the companies viewed with Governor Ron DeSantis, Florida, which ramped up after it openly criticized his don't say gay law. And I'm just like, what? Wow. Right when critics have accused several recent films of being woke, including some that are led by women and contained themes of feminism. Oh my God. The dreaded F word. I just, I just can't. My gosh. Superheroes are literally unbelievable, right, right. And so just because she's a she and we see in the show, she has the laws, right? Right. And she doesn't always know the consequences of her actions in advance like all of us. Right. Even with our best intentions, sometimes we make things worse. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so what if she can repower a son? Go girl. That's right. That's right. She can't spit out enough water to get the drought gone. She happens to have the energy to start up the sun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, and then here's a review on polygon in the title is the Marvels is a fun little party thrown at the end of Marvel's worst year. Hmm. It was a fun party. It was fun. Yes. This is a fun movie. It was fun. And I do think it also propelled us forward and Rambo, right at the end. I mean, really jumping to the very end, right, but we are like, oh, if we lost her for good, but here she is within the X-Men universe, right? And what else do we see? We see Kamala hooking up with, not hooking up, connecting with the young Hawkeye, Kate and propelling that forward. So, and I don't think that Kamala would have had the agency or fortitude, you know, to do that had the events of this movie not happened. Yeah. And she even backs a little bit like, pretty pleased, you know, but at first she's like, we are badasses and we are going to do cool stuff. Yeah. Okay. I am still young. So I'll pedal back a little bit, but she wouldn't even have gotten there without the events of this movie. Yeah. Yeah. I think so too. Yeah. I thought that scene was kind of cute. Very much, I don't know, if you caught it, and I can't say that I caught all of these references, but I was watching New Rock Stars and that is almost word for word. What Nick Fury says to Tony Stark when he goes to recruit him to be an Avenger. And I mean, it kind of rang to me, I'm like, well, that sounds, I mean, I was thinking, oh, it kind of reminds me of one, you know, Iron Man was recruited, but it's like really word for word, much of it. I thought that was interesting, but that didn't bother me. Yeah. But it was a fun scene and I like that she throwed in. She throwed in. Oh, she throwed it in. She throwed it in. She throwed it in. She threw it in. She threw in. You know, this little thing about Ant-Man having a daughter, we can get some other people too. Yeah. So that was fun. Yeah, you know, I did have to, I was a little bit critical when we were watching Echo and it was one of these spotlight ones where you really didn't need to know much in order and I was kind of like, well, but it kind of helps when you do know something. Well, in comparison, I must agree that Echo needed a lot less backstory to just enjoy it than this did. I really feel like there was plenty that I kind of missed, either I haven't seen the right movies or I don't remember them and there were definitely prior pieces of knowledge that were very helpful to me and they were all sorts of things. I mean, they were series and movies, right? And going back a while. So I guess maybe I'll backpedal a little bit on that spotlight, like, okay, so maybe it's not completely divorced from the entire rest of the universe, but Echo takes very little prior knowledge to just run with it. Right. Right. Yeah. So you missed WandaVision, even if you missed the original Guardians of the Galaxy, you would miss stuff because one of the things I was like, where the hell did she get Ronan's staff hammer thingy, which I guess has got a couple names, the Cosmurad or the Universal Weapon. I was like, how did she get that? And I couldn't figure out why it was still going purple because it didn't glow purple for Ronan until, I think it's named Ronan. Is that the character's name? Ronan is the one that Hawkeye become like the assassin. No, this is Guardians of the Galaxy Lee. What's his name? Guardians of the Galaxy One, of course I can't spell when I'm trying to hurry. A few moments later. Okay. Here we go. Ronan, R-O-N-A-N. Yeah. Whereas Hawkeye's is R-O-N-I-N, I think. Oh my God. That's ridiculous. Well, that's not fair for a person like me. I was trying to make them the same person. But they're not, obviously. No. Does the one from Guardians of the Galaxy also have kind of a hooded figure? Yeah. So kind of picture Darban, right? Yes. What's your face? The new evil. And some of the blue-faced people? Yes. With the kind of heavy, like, how many looking things that are long and the long robes and stuff, that's what Ronan and Galaxy One look like. Okay. Okay. Are Guardians of the Galaxy One? He is also in a video game that I have played with the gigantic hammer, Marvel Ultimate Alliance. Oh. That's my most vivid picture of him and he just kind of shows up. But you know what? I do think he's on a Cree ship. You should be. He's a Cree dude. Oh, that would really fit together. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, there you go. So just proving my point here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, definitely we having watched all of the Marvel things would have been really beneficial. Right. Now, in fact, I thought I'd seen all the Captain Marvel stuff, but was there a movie where she was the Annihilator and did the, destroyed the AI and started the Civil War? No. Well, at the end of Captain Marvel, yeah, she has defeated Jude Law's character, right? Yes. She's like, tell the AI I'm coming and I'm going to destroy it. And he's like, you can't do that. And that's so we don't see it happening until this movie, right? In those flashbacks. Okay. Okay. I talked about doing it. Yeah. Okay. Wow. So yeah, so that would have been back in 1995, right? Because that's when that movie sat and now it's I think like 2025 in the Marvel universe. So like 30 years since Cal destroyed the AI, the Supreme Intelligence. So, you know, it's no wonder things are quite critical on their planet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And even though I did not finish, Oh, shoot. What was it? Secret world of secret, yes, post recording note. Yes. We realize it wasn't that secret wars, but secret invasion. We always get that mixed up. Sorry for the confusion. I haven't heard that that wasn't too good. I'd seem like an episode or two, but I really thought that theory was great in this. This is post that. Right. Yes, I believe so because he had some great lines. Yes. I think it is. It's got to be it's got to be. He's back up in space. Yeah, that's the one show. I was when I was actually watching this movie, I was like, yeah, I probably should have watched Secret Wars, finished watching it. So it's the one Marvel thing I haven't seen that's kind of related to this. And not because I thought the first episode was bad or anything like that, but I've heard so much negative stuff about it that I'm finding a hard time. It's hard for me to go back and watch it now. Everything motivated, but what I should, the lesson I should learn here is just because I hear bad stuff doesn't mean I shouldn't see it because sometimes I have a different opinion than. Yeah. And we know I most often have a different opinion than critics. So yeah, I need to get back and watch that. Although now I know just in the process of looking up stuff for this show, I found out some stuff about the ending of that movie and kind of what happened. So yeah, it's like, when they spoil it, okay, spoilers here for Secret Wars very early on because I didn't get very far. So you have been warned when they killed Maria Hill, I was unhappy. Yeah, that I did know. I was like, no, oh, sorry, no, I was pretty sure you had seen that part. I wasn't think I was spoiling you. I was I was warning our listeners. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. No, I was like, that was very tough. Yeah. So should I, I did know Goose because of another video game, but should I have known Goose from one of the earlier Marvel things? Yeah, Goose was in Captain Marvel. Okay. Did he do his little tentacles out of the mouth thing? Uh huh. Okay. And we actually see him scratch fury to give him so he loses his sight in that eye. Okay. Now that is ringing a bell. It's amazing that the tentacles coming out of his mouth wasn't. And can we just talk a moment about these florkins? Oh my gosh. I must say when when Kamala's mom said that Goose looked a little like he was overfed or so. Yes. Pudgy. He was overfed. I, and then there, these mysterious things showed up. I was like, this has to do with Goose. This absolutely has to do with Goose. So I was not shocked that all these kittens came out of there, but I loved everything. Now this was an over the top funny thing that I totally enjoyed. The montage, yes, with Barbra Streisand's memory from cats and all these little kittens just eating these people, I mean, just holding them temporarily. And the, the calm voice said let the florkins eat. Yes. Yes. They're called them flor kittens though. Instead of just ugly ridiculous, it just made me, I was, I could not have been more. No notes. Oh, yeah. It was fun. Yes. Yeah. No, I love the flor kittens and I was like, wow, does this mean that florkins reproduce asexually? Right. Where, who's Goose been getting busy with? That's right. We never see anything. Goose has been in space with Captain Marvel. And frankly, how did Goose get to all of these locations on this ship? I also just don't know where these eggs all came from, but I don't, I don't even, I don't need to know. He's multi-dimensional, cosmically crazy, you know, when I, I, I'll buy it. Yes. I didn't know I was watching, I think it was New Rock Stars and, you know, it's that scene where mama Khan says, Goose is looking pudgy and Goose is like, clean itself, herself itself. This is maybe itself. And I didn't know like when cats, real cats are getting close to giving birth, they just like start to obsessively clean themselves, particularly around their genital areas. Hmm. Oh, did not know that. No. And just in my experience, they're quite tidy all the time. I guess it gets even worse when they're getting close to a show. Well, that would have been an even another indicator then, somebody who knew that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I immediately thought, oh, Goose is pregnant. But yeah. So I loved that scene. I've watched the movie three times every time I'm just like roaring with laughter. I did. The other scene that I really love that really makes me laugh is when Fury and Monica go to the Khan's house post fight. Yes. And Kamala is like, oh, let me show you my power. And they're like, no, but she doesn't have to marvel shows up and then Captain Marvel flies off and they hear Kamala screaming as she's falling through the air. Yeah. And Monica's trying to fly. Yes. And dear, he's like, come on, use your car. Hey, I'm so glad you said I have the same girl that kept it Marvel falls back to the ground. He's like, ah, it's cool. It's Carol. Yeah. I got that one too. That was great. So the best lines in the show, like when they're leaving the ship and their little shuttle was out of control and Ahmed is praying and Fury is like, are you praying? And Ahmed shuts up. He's like, don't stop. That's great. No, agreed. He really hit me time and again, which is part of Samuel L. Jackson's chart, right? Right. This is part of what he's known for, but he just, he delivered in this in this movie, I think. And I didn't catch it until my third watch of the movie when he is on the space elevator, right? And all the switching is going on between the, the marbles. Mm hmm. And so he's fighting that one Cree woman, I think it is. Yes. And she like, oh, no, no, no, he's talking to Captain Marvel after the fight. And she holds up her hand to say something to him and he holds up two fingers. He's like, says just be paper. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I do remember that. How did I just that? Yeah. Go ahead. You're going to say something. Oh, I was just going to throw in another quote that happened pretty close to the user core. A little bit before that, Kamala says, did you, did I hear you say aunt? And then there's another switch. And then the father says, doesn't look like their family and, and the mom says, families are complicated. Yes. I wrote it down too. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. Oh, it's cool. It's so good. I love that whole fight scene in the con house. It was done really well. Their house just gets absolutely destroyed. Yeah. And I was kind of thinking at the end, you know, they're in Louisiana. And I, I was like, are the cons moving now there because their house got destroyed? But I guess it's Carol moving in. But the mom is like, wouldn't this be a nice place for you to raise your kids and their house is destroyed, but it seems like, you know, they've just hitched the space ride and, you know, the next stop is going to be back to their home in New Jersey. Yeah. Yeah. And I love what she said that. And I'm going to pick up that remote control. He's pointed it out or like, yeah, yeah, change the channel mute something like this. Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of the subtle fun, Eric Emer, that I really enjoy a lot. Oh, speaking of earlier connections to different movies. So of course I recognized Valkyrie and she's certainly somebody who would know about relocating a people. I hadn't remembered. It does seem like she has a real closeness with Captain Marvel. And I had not recalled the background of that. Well, I don't think we get any. I was a little bit surprised about that too. I'm like, they fought together, but you know, all of the women fought together against nano. So I don't know if there's something that happens in between that makes them seem so close, but I thought that was a little bit odd. Okay. I'm glad to hear you say that because, I mean, it was spot it would not have been strange for her to be called. I mean, again, she relocated with all her people, but just the interaction between her and Captain Marvel just made me think I'd missed something about the development of their relationship. Well, if you missed it, I missed it too, but I was racking my brain and I can't recall anything. That would really explain that. Okay. If you, gentle listener, had any idea of how more connection between those two, let us know. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I'm totally an aside, but it was part of when they were learning how to swap back and forth really fast. Do you know how to double Dutch? Have you ever double duched? I was, I could barely do the jump in on a single row. Yeah. Let alone the double Dutch. So I never tried it because I was so terrible at jumping in on a single rope. I'm like, yeah, it's never going to work. I did a lot of single rope. I did a lot of that, but boy, nope, I never double duched. And the kind of jump ropes we would use were those ones that were kind of plasticy. They were kind of heavy and they really hit the floor nicely and with one, but boy, had there been two of them, I'm sure I was going to get clocked in the neck or something. So I can't, I'm trying to remember if anybody did double Dutch. I remember seeing it, but I, I'm just not even sure if I ever tried it, but I did my share of jump roaking. That's for sure. Well, double Dutch was just kind of starting to gain some popularity and notoriety. Maybe I want to say that right when I was kind of getting out of that age where you like to jump through. Yeah. So yeah, that's also a reason I probably never tried it, but I do remember thinking there's no way in hell. I can never think about that. Yeah. Yeah. So. Oh, back to the flurkins for just a moment. Did that before you knew they were little flurkins, did the whole finding them and that whole process, trying to figure out what was going on, remind you of anything else in the fandom universe at large. Um, I'm going to have to say no. Okay. I think it's called the tribbles. Is it the tribbles? Oh, from Star Trek. Yeah. Wow. And real tribbles vibes. Everybody loves that episode of Star Trek. Yeah. Yeah. That's really until they burst open his little kittens, I was sort of, they were just reproducing exponentially in that, well, or showing up exponentially anyway. I think the tribbles were actually reproducing, but anyway, just reminded me of it. It's not a one to one correlation, but it. Right. Right. I can see where you would, uh, where you could make that correlation. That's funny. Good, good catch. Thank you. Yeah. I'm like, man, why did that come into my mind? Oh, well, that, that's why I was trying, I was trying to speak in as broadly as possible. Let's see if it got to, oh, when you brought up the part, I can't remember if you went this far with it, but when Fury was like, no, don't stop praying for that, that, that he finished off with, amen, amen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Fury was just full of the funny this time. He really was. Oh, I saw a note I wrote, Monica is the Zepo. She seems to be playing a lot of the street person in the comedy sense in this, uh, film, but she's got some lines. Like when they get to the singing planet and she leans down, she's like high small child. Yes. Yes. And, uh, so I like those kinds of lines and Ahmed has a lot of lines like that. The brother, like when Papa Kay is trying to sell insurance to that guy, yes, who some people, I think it was Jessica Clemens, um, thinks that's an, uh, uh, uh, uh, shit, Tori Lake as guardian and he's like, how old are you and the guy's 306 and Papa Kay is like, huh? And I'm, it's like, wow, same age. Yeah. Look at this. It was kind of more investment advice than insurance, right? Was it investment? Yeah. It could be. Yeah. So I think it was, I think it was saving for retirement more than insurance. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're too late or too early and I liked, I didn't catch this again. I guess I think it's in her notebook at the beginning of the movie. And I liked that they started, you know, when they brought in Kamala Khan, right at the beginning of the movie, right? They really just kind of pick up in that same style as the television show and so forth, which I really appreciated. And I guess there's something, maybe it's on her website, it's like, here's the things I am, right? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And one of them is a, like something about fan fiction. And then when Monica makes that comment to her, while pretty princess Captain Marvel is dancing with the princess, and she's like, how many chapters have you kept in Marvel fan fiction? Is this giving you so many? That was a good line. That was a really good line. Yeah. But I like how they tied that together. Yes. I was just looking up what, when Ms. Marvel, the series came up and I guess it was only two years ago. And that was good because I was a little worried. I mean, I just felt like Ms. Marvel, you know, at that age, you can change pretty quickly, right? Yeah. A lot of older, really fast. She looked a little older, I still felt like she looked as youthful as she did. You know, I wasn't like caught off guard. It wasn't like Bran from Game of Thrones, where you're like, good God, right? This small child has become, you know, a place that a lesson. Yeah. Yeah. But it was only, it was only two years. So. Yeah. And she was, I mean, she was older when she did that anyway. So that helps. That helps. That does help. I appreciated her a little throw out of Whitman, oh, Captain, my Captain. Oh, yes. So Captain, my Captain. She is a real fan, girl. She sure is. She sure is. So here's a total change of topic. Ready. What did you think about Captain Marvel's reasons for not returning to Earth? Crapy. Yeah. Just because you're embarrassed about shit you've done and don't want to face up to it. Yeah. Crapy. No, I, that really bothers me and I would have bought more kind of a almost losing track of time, right, starting this mission and just getting so caught up in it and being this, you know, incredibly powerful, I don't know if she ages, you know, just, just not even recognizing, you know, just thinking she'll go home and ramble, still be a child, you know, but intentionally knowing that the, you know, and really, really understanding all the time that passed and knowing that the mother has died and yeah, no, I, I thought that was, I thought that was a real weakness in her character, if you will, that she did that to, to ramble. Yeah. I think that based on how she kind of responds sometimes to Kamala too, who clearly worships her kind of like little we Monica did, right? I don't think she knows how to handle that at all. So I think in some way this movie is a little, I don't want to really say redemption, but here's a little bit of growth for Captain Marvel, right? Let's, you know, this is kind of bullshit. This is the reality of what it is. You are the superhero. You're going to have people who are idolize you and you've got to deal with it. You can't run from it when you make mistakes, you can't run from the, the idolatry or anything like that. You just, you got to deal with it. Don't run from it. Yeah. And it's one thing, you know, Captain Marvel had never met Kamala Khan, right? Right. It's not nice to be a jerk to her, but she doesn't have any real responsibility for, and before they get to know each other, for showing up for her or anything, but she really was the next closest person to her mother and, yeah, he really was, was an integral part of Rambo's family. Yeah. And the only remaining one. Yeah. So I, I do feel like that responsibility was pretty great. And it's one she totally shirked. Yeah. I wonder why she went to visit Maria Rambo, right? Like what, was it just because, you know, the blip happened? And so she wanted to see what was going on with him or if they were even there. Or maybe Fury told her that she was buying maybe, maybe, I guess that's a possibility because one of the questions I had early on is like, how do Captain Marvel get goose? And then of course we find out later, Maria's like, you got to take goose because I'm dying. I think if we maybe think about Captain Marvel, right, as she is her in Wanda, right? The most powerful ones in the MCU and, you know, in WandaVision, we get to see her frailties and in the second Doctor Strange movie, we get to see that as well. And so, you know, we're seeing this in this movie with Captain Marvel. They might be super powered to the 10th or whatever, but they still have these human frailties. Definitely. What did you think about, so when Darben, they definitely have the upper hand on her and she gets kind of pierced and Rambo's like, you could save her son. You've got the last piece she needs to save her world. And here's a place where I feel like Darben's zealot behavior goes too far in that she's just heard the solution and it sounds like Captain Marvel is willing to do it, but she's still like, no, an eye for an eye. I'm taking the power from your son so you will, your people will suffer the way mine have suffered, right, as opposed to just, okay, this is my end goal to have my planet return to its glory and heck, I don't even have to die if, you know, a rational person might say, excellent, right? This is the solution and my quest is over, but she, she wants the vengeance. Yeah, and she recovers very quickly from that piercing. I thought she was going to be a little more debilitated by that, but no, she has no problem just getting attacking Kamala and finishing her task. Let's put that down to adrenaline. Fair. Yeah, I remember the first time I was watching it. And of course, I, the second, third time I was watching it, I did the same thing. I was like, killer, kill her because, you know, you can't leave that kind of villain behind because they're just, they're too deep into their mission and for revenge that they're not going to turn around on a dime, but, you know, heroes got to try to be heroes. Yeah. And I let her live. And she does not get destroyed by the Marvel. She does destroy herself. Yeah. And I did really, well, I guess we do see the result. I thought we were going to somehow see something from this other universe seep into this one. But what we really only get is Rambo gets jettisoned into the other universe. Maybe it was because the suction force, well, I guess it wasn't. She was like pushing on it, right? All bad together. I'm not going to try to get into. Yeah. And maybe something to slip in and it just hasn't been covered here. Yeah. But I really, I am so glad we didn't leave this whole movie experience not knowing whether Rambo is alive or not. I really did like that post credit sequence or whatever with Frazier. Yes. Because I said Kelsey grammar, I totally forgot that he did beast in some of the X-Men movies. So did I. He's perfect. His voice is perfect. Yeah. That's a great voice. Thank you very much. And you know, despite beast's visage, I mean, he really is just incredibly erudite and nothing says erudite like Kelsey ever says. Now interesting that, and I am not familiar with Oh, shoot. What's the name of Rambo's mom's binary, binary? I am not familiar with that superhero in the X-Men universe. I have not encountered binary that I can recall. Well, according to new rock stars, I watched a couple of their videos and this one was called the Marvel's post credit scene, and so binary wasn't introduced into the Marvel comics until 2021. So super new. Okay. Well, that explains a lot because all the X-Men video games I've played are much older than that. Yeah. And so binary is a duplicate of Carol Danvers, who gets caught in a Faraday cage. Oh my gosh. So clearly, and remember early on, when with the scene between Carol and Maria, and Maria, you know, you got to take goose and die. And Carol's like, it should have been you all along, you know, that basically would be Captain Marvel. So clearly what they're saying here, and again, thank you new rock stars for cleaning this up for me, is that it's Maria, who is Captain Marvel in some of these, and many of these alternate universes, because if we think back to Dr. Strange, right? Maria Rambo was Captain Marvel. Okay. And here she's the duplicate from the Faraday cage. So yeah, because I was like, who the hell is binary? Because I was like, is this a different, I was going to look up online to see if she, if this was like a photon outfit or something like that that I hadn't seen yet, but because I totally missed in the movie when they called her binary, and it was really the boss video that cleared all that up for me, like, oh, now I get it. Well, and I certainly don't know all the X-Men. I was assuming it was an X-Men person, just because she was with Beast, but it sounds like what you're saying is it's really a Marvel. I know they're all the same, but you know what I mean? And very recently, they've been pretty separate. Yes, and that was because, you know, Fox had the rights, but now, and that's why until recently, they couldn't, like, they couldn't call Kamala in the series, a mutant. Remember in, like, the last episode, what's his face is like, Kamala, there's something different in your jeans, like, like a mutation. And so they've been calling them, like, in humans, I think, because Fox is like you can't use the word mutants. You can't call them that because we've got the rights for that. Oh, geez. So, but now that Disney has Fox as well, and they can start using mutants, and that's why they're bringing the X-Men in now into the universe because the X-Men were way more popular in the comics than the Avengers ever were, and it really is only these movies that Marvel did with RDJ, you know, I think RDJ, Chris Evans, the cast that they did really pulled people in. And so, and now the Avengers comics, of course, people go back and reading them. They've become popular, but it was really the X-Men that were the most popular Spider-Man and the X-Men, I would say. So yeah, I'm really excited, I cannot wait. This movie I will definitely see in the theater. I cannot wait for Deadpool. I believe it is Deadpool and Wolverine. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It is not Deadpool 3, and they are all Wolverine. Even though only his shadow is in the preview. I love that. I have to. You know what? I should do a re-watch of Deadpool 1 and Deadpool 2. Before the movie? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I could really, I could really use that. Yeah. So maybe end of June, early July, we do those two, and then we go see the other one. Love it. That sounds great. Oh, yeah. I'm really, I just, I just can't wait. Nice. And I'm so glad that Hugh Jackman was willing to come back to reprise Wolverine because I don't want to see anybody else do Wolverine. I know. I know. And I was hearing, I heard some scuttlebutt about multiverse that there's probably going to be more than one version of Wolverine, and it won't all be Hugh Jackman. But I'm glad he will at least be there. I mean, I sure didn't mind it in Loki, as long as Loki was there. And by Loki, I mean, Tom Hiddleston. Tom Hiddleston. Yeah. What? Who is that? Taryn, Taryn, Taryn, Taryn. What was that guy's name? Let me see. I'm wondering, he's going to cameo in it because there's been some talk about him taking over the Wolverine. Oh, what is this guy's name? Let me find it. Taryn Edgerton. Okay. Did you see Kingsman? King'sman. King'sman. With. I have. He played Elton John in Rocket Man. Oh, my gosh. Now that, that is speaking to me. Taryn, how do you spell Taryn, do you think? It is T-A-R-O-N and Edgerton is E-G-E-R-T-O-N. Taryn got it. Oh, yeah. He's got a little bit of a Michael Buble's little brother look to him. Okay. Just in this picture I'm seeing possibly because he's wearing a black suit with tie. It's probably more his outfit. Anyway. It's like, okay. There's only, there is only one Loki for me and there's only one Wolverine for me. And one Captain America for me. And one Han Solo. You know, it's funny, my trainer told me today he's going to Emerald City Comic-Con. Oh, cool. I told you. I told you he was going to be there. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, Hey, get a picture of Chris Evans for me. Girl, you should go. You know me. I love the crowds. I know, but it's Chris Evans. Oh, my gosh. I love that the movie that the last line in the movie is Monica St. Oh, shit. Yes. That tickled me. I was like, Oh, Disney. Yeah, but yeah, but I wrote down what did we learn from the Marvel's and my first one is Blurkins reproduce asexually. Young Avengers are beginning. And that we were now seeing a different parallel universe from one that we've seen before, right? Because Maria in the eight three eight universe that we saw in Dr. Strange was Captain Marvel. So this can't be that universe. We've learned about how the jump point system was created using the quantum. We learned that the universe can be fracked. Yeah, let's hope that Darben didn't do too many new ones. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we learned that Captain Marvel did visit Maria during the blip and that she did annihilate Hala. And we learned that Monica's a real freaking badass. I mean, you kind of get that from the WandaVision, but now we know for sure. Oh. Yes. And I did love. I mean, when she said you guys need to shoot me with it and I'll close it. I was like, she's gonna be able to get out of this and it just was it's not the first time we hear I knew this was going to be a one way trip, you know, I knew when I signed up for this that I was going to have to sacrifice myself, but I am really glad that she's not totally gone. And I know with the multiverse, no one's ever gone. Yeah. Yeah. But I still can't get my head around that completely. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out if there's a way they can get her back to the 616 universe. Of course there is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course there is. Who knows? Maybe it'll be through Deadpool. You need not be concerned. I mean, the physics doesn't have to work. But I just need to say it be so and it will be so. We'll use our pseudo-marble science to make it so. And normally pseudo-science drives me crazy. But again, I don't get Marvel fatigue and their pseudo-science doesn't bother me. Well, if you're going to bicker, then I mean, I know that you get very frustrated when like fictional, but crime shows do science poorly. Yeah. But that is supposed to be representing our world, right? Right. Right. And Marvel is not trying to represent our world. Yeah. So I think they're allowed a lot of leeway. Now it is nice when things hang logically together, but I don't care if they have a super knife that can cut through space time, you know, it's like, sure, sure that you can do that here. Yeah. And it's, you know, okay. So it does seem like every superhero can breathe in space. Oh my gosh. And in fact, some space ships just don't even have doors. You just sort of fly right in and, you know, no reason to have an airlock. I just, I just sit here on the bridge. Who cares about gravity? Yeah. Yeah, at first I was like, is that thing open? But there is like a barrier because, you know, when they like, you can see a little bit of energy stuff happening when they come in that, that opening. That's right. You're absolutely right. Cause it's not like the Cree can breathe in space because like, right, they need their breathable atmosphere. They're often in hack and back home. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're absolutely right. Even though it looks like a wide open door, there was some sort of force field there. Yeah. Good reminder. Would you say that? I was just like, I'm not even adored in this place, I just, this is just a big rock flying through space. Yeah. Yeah. So we just got to put all that aside. Absolutely. Absolutely. The reality of science is nothing to do with comic book hero. Yeah. Yes. This is true. But it can give us a chuckle every now and then. Yes. That is very true. That is true. And we'd probably on some movie at some time, quite really kind of gone after it. Well, I have a critical probably. Yeah. No, you're probably right. I'd like just, you know, as long as it doesn't contradict itself, I guess, you know, if it all holds together, I think when it sort of contradicts itself, that can get frustrating. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that's all I got. Me too. Well, I, I did enjoy it. Again, it's not going to go down as my favorite, but it is far from my least favorite. Yeah. And of course, if, if Tom Hiddleston had made the parents, you know, supporting his partner in her movie, you know, hey, that might have made it even closer to the top. But even, even without Tom Hiddleston, I did think, I did think it was, it was quite good. And I do feel like I've moved forward in the Marvel world. Yeah. Yeah. I think we got some good setup for where they're going next. Yeah. I had fun and that's kind of what I want. When I watch a movie, I want to be entertained and I was entertained. Agreed. So, all right, well, I guess then all you have to do is say goodbye. Thanks for listening, everybody. Whileowing in the shallows is created and produced by the both of us, edited by Mao. The soundtracks for the whileowing in the shallows, the Marvels, are Apache Rock instrumental by Soundatellier, available on gemento.com, and The Epical Trailer by The Mountain on Pixabay.com. You can send us feedback at which TV pod at gmail.com, that's W-I-T-S-T-V-P-O-D at gmail.com.
