Glitch Bottle Podcast

#151 - Jinn Doppelgangers & Akbarian Sufism with Dr. Dunja Rašić | Glitch Bottle

What are Jinn in the Islamic tradition? What is a Jinnic doppelganger, those much-feared beings who were believed to be assigned to each human being throughout their lives? How did one of the greatest minds in Islamic thought from the 12th and 13th centuries, Ibn Arabi, conceptualize about Jinn? Scholar and author Dr. Dunja Rasic goes deep, sharing about her latest (and wonderfully lucid) tome ‘Bedeviled: Jinn Doppelgangers in Islam and Akbarian Sufism’, answers your Patreon supporter questions and so much more!

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►📚Get your copy of ‘Bedeviled’(Amazon)- https://www.amazon.com/Bedeviled-Doppelgangers-Islam-Akbarian-Sufism/dp/1438496893/
►📚Get your copy of ‘Bedeviled’(SUNY)- https://sunypress.edu/Books/B/Bedeviled
►🔥Check out Dr. Rašic's Academic and Publication Info - https://orcid.org/0009-0005-0617-7207
► ✅Dr. Rašic's Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/rasicdunja
► 📚Get your copy of Dr. Rašic's ‘Written World of God’ - https://anqa.co.uk/publications/written-world-god

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🎵 Music by the artist Crowander (track name: “Tornado”)-https://soundcloud.com/crowander
- https://www.crowander.com/

Duration:: 1h 44m
Broadcast on:: 07 Jul 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

The Doppelganger's inhabit the bloodstream and hearts of human beings. This is a demonic possession, conditionally speaking, unlike any other, because each Doppelganger is believed to have been conceived at the same time as its human. Salutations listeners, and welcome back to Glitch Bottle, the podcast where we uncork the uncommon and magic mysticism and the generally misunderstood. I'm Alexander F and today we are so excited to talk about Gin Doppelgangers with scholar and author, Dr. Dunyarashich. So what is a Gin in Islam? Something even more specific, what is a Ginick Doppelganger, an Arabic known as a Chareen, the much-feared beings who were believed to be assigned to each human being throughout their lives? How did one of the greatest minds in Islamic thought, from the 12th and 13th centuries, Mu'adi Adin ibn Arabi conceptualize about Gin in Sufism? Well, Dr. Dunyarashich is the perfect person to ask. Dr. Rashich is a university of religions and denominations researcher, scholar and author. She's the author of the written world of God, the cosmic script and the art of Ibn Arabi. One of her latest poems is entitled "Bedeviled", Gin Doppelgangers in Islam in Akbarian Sufism. Dr. Rashich lucidly and wonderfully details how Ginick twins, or Chareen, or Qurana, were apprehended in the Islamic normative tradition and in Akbarian Sufism, distilling such a complex topic in a brilliant, lucid, informative way and a way that's so engaging. So a huge thanks to Dr. Rashich, as well, a huge thanks to each and every glitch bottle patron on Patreon for your incredible support and your questions for Dr. Rashich and each and every one of our guests, also a shout out to Ijaz, who first connected myself and Dr. Rashich. Now to help us uncork the uncommon, let's welcome Dr. Dunja Rashich. Dr. Dunja Rashich, thank you so so much for taking the time and coming on the glitch bottle podcast today. No, thank you for inviting me, those were really generous praises that you keep on me, and I will really, really try to live up to them if I can. You already are, Dr. Rashich, because I'm echoing Denny Poisson from the Foolish Fish channel when he reviewed your wonderful book "Bedeviled", but you write so brilliantly and it's so lucid, it's clear, and you take such a complex topic and you are able to present it where even someone like me is reading it, I go, "Oh, that's what that is. That's what that's about." So, Dr. Rashich, before we even get to some of the basics of the book, how did you first become interested in Akbarian Sufism and studying Islamic Esotericism? Well, you see, I have a background, scholarly background in Islamic studies. I gained my bachelor degree in Islamic studies at the University of Belgrade, followed by a master's degree, also at the Department of Arabic Studies at the University of Belgrade and also at Saitama University in Japan. It was there, possibly, that I was deeply immersed into Islamic mysticism and Sufi texts. Of course, I suppose I was exposed to mythology, to magic, to philosophical and occult texts since early childhood, due to the influence of my father, first and foremost. But first, those were Greek and Egyptian myths, and for example, Egyptian book of the dead, those were read to me as of early childhood, as if they were fairy tales. And they were followed eventually by Aztec texts and Celtic texts. I believe I discovered Sufi texts myself, starting from the very popular local elections from the Balkans, documenting the many adventures of Nurudin Höger. That was the beginning, and then Ibn Arabim found me. Many of these works by Mukhtrin Ibn Arabi, himself, have been translated into Serbian, into Bosnian, for non-English speakers. The first book I read were Ibn Arabi's bezel subwisdom, and it obviously resonated very deeply with me, even before I was by coincidence, if there are such things or coincidences, assigned a topic for my master thesis to write a comparative study of the notion of the perfect human being in the works of Mukhtrin Ibn Arabi and Saint John Klimakus. That was the beginning of my part, that I'm still walking on, and some of these contemplations, some of my researches, of course, reflected in my books. Can you maybe share, Dr. Rashich, for listeners who might not be too familiar, what is a basic definition of Sufism, who was Ibn Atabi, and what are these kareen, these ginnic doppelgangers? We're going to get into a lot of detail, but please, if there's any terms, or yeah, please go for it. I recorded your questions, which are excellent, but also so profoundly difficult, especially the first one, the basic definition of Sufism. It is something that has been debated for many, many centuries, and once, long, long ago, a wise Sheikh said that once, Sufism was a reality without a name, and now it's a name without reality. There are many definitions of Sufism out there, probably as many as people writing on the topic, probably yes, as many as there are people wavering through the heavenly spheres and stations of spiritual development, while engaging in Islamic mysticism all the while practicing Islamic mysticism. I intentionally used this face Islamic mysticism, or contested as it is, because the very word mysticism, it implies something that is hidden, something that is mystical, precious, and unseen, an object of our search, of yearning, of desire. The word itself comes from the Greek word mien, which means basically to close the eye. A spiritual seeker closes their eyes, so as to be able to drink in the higher states of reality, and such is the nature of this reality that it cannot be grasped by rational minds, by our senses alone. You see, we, and by that I mean academics, are curious little creatures, and the field of Sufism studies is very vast indeed. It covers, embraces centuries upon centuries, giving due respect and attention to popular culture, as well as to the refined spiritual teachings and written works of Sufism, such as Muqidin ibn arq, for example. I personally would not then call myself Sufism, at this point I would not go that far. I am perhaps a philosopher in the most basic sense of the word. With Ivanara be claiming that, as a matter of fact, he said, all intelligent people partake in philosophy, provided that we accurately understand and define philosophy as Hup al-Hikma, the love of wisdom. Muslims believe that the door of propertuit was closed with the death of the Prophet Muhammad, and no more holy scriptures and clarifications will be sent to the people. And one can only do as much in the light of these facts. Sufism and academics devoted their lives to interpreting God's book, or rather, let's put it this way, to interpreting his books. You see, Ivan Arawib was among many, many Sufism, who perceived that the created world who saw the universe and all in it as the words of God that were inscribed on the outspread parchment of existence. And it is possible, he believed, to gain the ultimate knowledge by reading this great book of the world, by contemplating the great book of God's creation. And the same goes for Quran. Ivan Arawib believed that all knowledge there is contained in the Quranic verses. Sufism speak of three great books in their works. These are the great book of the world we mentioned, Quran, of course, and human beings who were made in God's own form. Sufism extract knowledge from these books at times. And at times, they also get to be blessed with divine visions, with tribulations, and self-disclosure of the divine, learning from God himself, sometimes. We extend extract knowledge from super books, and we aim to perpetually offer fresh new perspective, new keys for interpreting these texts, as Vastami would say. You take your knowledge from the dead, and we take it from the living who never dies. That is true, in fact. We are guilty as charged. But also, this is how spiritual growth begins. The line between theory and practice, between contemplation and Sufi practices, such as Dikr, remember, so God is thin and ever narrowing as a person engages with the texts. It is now, of course, impossible to study and to analyze immediately the mystical experiences of others. I will be claimed that this would even be highly improper to try, to discuss visions and revelations. That one is incapable of verifying for themselves, and here I am once again guilty as charged. However, to convey spiritual realizations, that were not obtained by the means of rational investigations, to convey knowledge that transcends rational mind. This is a hard task, but not impossible. For example, art is one mediums that Sufi is like Ivanara becoming used. He said that even those, to whom God didn't grant a stronger, powerful mind capable of analytical thinking, that even such people were not denied the power of imagination. And then, there are also metaphors and stories we can benefit from. In my books, I actually aim to tell and retell such stories, having already published all surviving drawings and cosmological diagrams in Ivanara, that is my goal. To tell stories, to interpret stories, Sufi stories seeking to address the great perennial questions and riddles, such as the problem of evil, for example, which is the topic of my book, bedeviled, such as the act of Genesis, which I analyzed by focusing exclusively on properties of the letters of the Arabic alphabet, and Ivanara is cosmological diagrams in the written world of God, such as for example, the Sufi notions of knowledge and ignorance, a light and darkness, belief and disbelief, and the mysteries of the night, that is the focus of my forthcoming book, the Night Folk, and of course, that the ultimate question, which I am intending to address in yet another book, I am hoping to submit to one publisher or another, focusing on Azrael, the angel of that. This is also in a way my own search, my own personal quest for true sight and knowledge, as one of the philosophers, as one of the lovers of wisdom, and this search of course centers around the works of Muqchidin Ivanara being the greatest shake himself. When you use the phrase Akbarian Sufism, is that because Ibn Arabi, this wonderful philosopher and Sufi mystic, is it because he was called El Sheikh Al Akbar, is that where Akbarian Sufism comes from? That's precisely it, he is traditionally as referred to in religious works in literature as Sheikh Al Akbar, the greatest shake and this is why we refer to his teachings as Akbarian Sufism and we refer to his students and followers, interpreters as Akbarians, of course, it's debatable whether he ever found it, a distinct school of thought in his lifetime. But I think this term can be used, it can be justified by the fact that Ibn Arabi himself said that, and here I am quoting him loosely, more or less, that any individual religious beliefs and practices can be referred to as schools or mazahib. So I would say that using this term is quite justified in my own opinion. It really, really means a lot to me, and this I have to say, that you called my writings easily approachable, that they are lucid and engaging. This is what I was always trying to achieve, especially since there are so many people describing even Arabic teachings as I see as bizarre, contrasting his metaphysics, I'm trying to remember the exact face as, for example, I see peaks of a high tall mountains as compared to the rose gardens of some other popular Sufi teachings. I would actually disagree, these teachings, yes, can be complex, although I wouldn't call them either cold or bizarre, but when writing, of course, I write academic works. These are scientific monographs, but I always write them with a larger audience in mind, with Sufi practitioners, with people who are simply interested in myth, in magic, in mysticism as I was as a child, and as a teenager. I often, I guess this is noticeable when just flipping through the pages of these books, use the method of Ibn Arabic himself, who relied on artworks to convey complex teachings that he believed that cannot be conveyed by the means of the written world. I like to use pages from warriors' Islamic manuscripts, Islamic miniatures, and Sufi cosmological diagrams, not just as an illustration for my writings, but they also enchant the message and engage the reader better, trying to make the books even more engaging, even more approachable, even more interesting. So hearing that I might have succeeded makes me really happy, probably more than words can convey. Well, the feeling is certainly very mutual, Dr. Ashich, because reading it, I felt like my mind was being open to a lot of these historical tributaries and currents that I had no idea were even interacting with each other, and the way that Genik Dopplegangers were actually apprehended. I mean, you really do such a great job. And I think, Dr. Ashich, this leads to the question of what inspired you in the first place to actually say, "Okay, I need to write a book on not only Genik Dopplegangers, the Khadim, but also on Ibn Adebi's apprehension of the Genik Dopplegangers." And to that point, you say in the book, "The role of Gen in Ibn Adebi's teachings remains one of the least studied aspects of Akbarian Sufism until today," unquote. So was that why you wrote the book, Dr. Ashich? Was it to illuminate more of this area of study? No, it wasn't the conscious decision. I will now write on something that has to be innovative, it has to be new. It's hard, actually, to identify the source of inspiration. I guess this is why the ancient Greeks worshiped the muses. We don't know where inspiration comes from. I'm daily exposed to Ibn Arabi's texts and teachings, but when writing a book, I guess I'm no different than any other scholar in that one regard. I simply write books that I would like to read and that I couldn't find on Amazon or Oscar in any of the languages that I know. Reading simply with Arabi's books, I encountered the monic duples for the first time. I wanted to learn more and I could find nothing, nothing, nothing. By researching, by reading, I begin amassing literature and little by little, week by week and month by month, it leads to a book, Search as Bedeviled at times. At times, I also discovered that some obscure publishing house published a book on the topic already and then I shelved the proof, but I wouldn't still call the time lost. I always learned something new at least. You mentioned that Ibn Arabi's teachings were "chiefly based on a Hadith pludsey" or one of the Hadith or the sayings of the prophet Muhammad, which reads, "I was a hidden treasure and I loved to be known, hence I created the world to make myself known." Can you share about the importance of this Hadith? What does this mean? Yes, I guess for that, I just wanted to add a remark that just came to me. I simply don't write books that I want to write. I write books that ask me, perhaps, to write them. Ivan Arabi, I think he worked the same way. You mentioned that did I really write that all Ibn Arabi's teachings are based on the Hadith pludsey? I don't know if I would go that far, but then again, as I think about it, that statement is not far from the truth either. Let us invoke, for a moment, the image from the beginning of our conversation, to imagine together the universe and all things in existence as the words of God inscribed on the parchment of existence, each living being and each form and object can be envisioned as a single word. This is how Ibn Arabi saw things. One could alternatively open Quran for a moment. Ibn Arabi believed that every verse from the Quran has countless, countless meanings and that if you are reading the same passage twice and the meaning appears the same to you, then you are certainly doing something wrong. Yet, yet, the ultimate meaning of all these verses, of all these words inscribed on the parchment of existence is he or God himself. God or so does the Hadith pludsey imply, created the universe and all in it and he sent the Quran because he wished to be known by humans. And all his life even are the sought knowledge of the Creator. So in a nutshell, it might be possible to say that all his teachings were inspired by the Hadith pludsey, yes. Many mystical schools of thought, as you mentioned, see God or the divine in this beauty of the universe. But in your book as well, Dr. Ashut, you also show how Ibn Arabi focused on other attributes and divine names of God that people might not think about. So two of the divine names that you give that are used to describe God or Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala is al-Mekir or the deceiver and al-Mudil or the one who leads astray. So can you share a little bit more about these names and how did Ibn Arabi engage with these quote unquote darker sides, if you will, of the divine? Yes. Robert Muhammad is believed to have said there 99 names of God and those who know these names are bound to go to heaven. Many of these names appear in the Quran and yes, as you mentioned, many indeed come away at the feeling, the concept of infinite mercy, of beauty and power. God is the merciful, the compassionate, the lahman, or heim. But yes, he is also the deceiver, the one who leads astray. These names are less of attributes of God than descriptions of his actions, his relation to the world he created. Moreover, Ibn Arabi believed that living beings are embodiments or self-disclosures of these names. Humans are the only living things in existence that were made in God's form. And thus they embody all these names within themselves, within their form and actions. But it is not so with other living beings. And for example, in my recent book, Bedevilt, I focused on gendal plugangers who are the embodiment of this name al-Mudil, the one who leads astray, these little pests, these creatures, that will lead astray to sin, if they can, and yes, quite often they can. There is something I would like to make clear. Ibn Arabi never proclaimed God, the creator, to be evil, despite this darker name of God's. He maintained, and was quite explicit on the matter, that God is infinitely good, as is the world he created. This is now just an abstract concept, but if we were to imagine what would be the opposite, the antipode of God, in Agberian Sufism, that would not be Iblis, the devil, and other evil, Jin, and his children, such as doppelgangers, but non-existence. Non-existence, this abstract concept is the only absolute evil, the only true evil in the absolute sense. There is, of course, relative evil, or what we humans see as evil, sickness and that would be good examples, and yes, of course, these malevolent demonic doobles that God sent and ordered them to nest in our hearts. Ibn Arabi in his works, and this is what I also tried to achieve with Bedevilt, tries to shake up and shift our perspective just for a bit, why do you deem doppelgangers evil? He asks, because they tempt you, so what he says? If you try on poor temptation, well, all is well and good. There is no quicker route to spiritual uncension than overpowering your passions, your temptations. So even if you do commit a sin and give in to temptations, well, says Ibn Arabi, that is not so bad either, because that would make you likely to repent and God values not being more than a repentant sinner. Redemption would also make people less likely to sin again, making it more likely that they will ultimately triumph over their doppelgangers, over the course of a lifetime. Dr. Reshich, to that very point, you mentioned that the Ginnic doppelgangers, the Chareen or the Purana, they are a subset of the Ginnic beings. They are a subset, if you will, of Ginn. And you mentioned that Ginn in the book, you say, that they, quote, "cluster at the margins of the known world," unquote. Can you share a little bit more about the nature of Ginn as Ibn Arabi perceived them? And what is this clustering and this clinging to the borderland between light and darkness and right at the border of materiality and all of these concepts? Well, Ginn don't like humans, that's the fact. They were identified as one of the six species of living beings in the universe. Like there are many subspecies in animal kingdom, there are also many subspecies of Ginn. Muslim scholars were never in agreement on the exact number of these subspecies. But doppelgangers often appear on the list. You ask me to define Ginn, the standard definition you will find in every written work is based on the Quran, on the authority of the Quran. Like humans were made of clay, like God created angels from light, Muslim believed that Ginn were created from the flames of smokeless fire, or alternatively there are verses in the Quran indicating that they might have been created from the scorching heat of desert winds. They are the creatures that are inhabitants of the material realm, of the world of nature, and such they were often classified simply among animals, if you were to open some of the early zoological works by Muslim scholars. There are interesting paragraphs in Ibn Arabi's works, the work insists that actually all inhabitants of this world of nature and everything pertaining to this realm of existence consists of four elements and that the Ginn are not an exception in this regard, that even though they are the spirits of fire, that their bodies also contain some of the air, water and earth in addition to the element of fire. These are these four elements I've mentioned that build the world of nature. He believed, and this is something I tried to show in my book, that our bodily constitution influences our character and our behaviour to occur to each degree. Humans have little fire within them, far less than Ginn, and this abundance of fire in their bodies can make them very fresh, very arrogant. Ginn wishes to feel like a flame, to spark, outshine and burn bright. Fire makes them competitive, it can also make them aggressive, it can make them vengeful. As Ibn Arabi said, when affronted, a Ginn can exact to vengeance upon humans that far exceeds the gravity of the insult. At the same time, even though these creatures are not unintelligent, they were actually said to be quite accomplished in some fields of science. Once again, the fire of their bodies can make them unfocused and hyperactive. This is just one of the reasons interacting with a doppelganger, interacting with these species in general, was considered to be so dangerous in Islam. Ah, that is so fascinating. So when it comes to the Ginnic doppelgangers, as you mentioned Dr. Ashich in the book, these doppelgangers are believed to be assigned by God at birth. Can you just share like, what are some of the characteristics that define what a hottine or a Ginnic doppelganger is? Yes, but I guess what you're actually asking me is how we would differentiate one subspecies of Ginn from another. Actually, the most common method was to classify them by their bodily form. In some classical works, you have divisions and categories of Ginn in the forms of animals, Ginn in the human form or Ginn in the form of whirlwind. Even our bit did not think this classification efficient because Ginn are shapeshifters. Because there is very little element of earth in their body, they can change their form at will. What makes doppelganger unique in a way is their place of residence. The doppelgangers inhabit the bloodstream and hearts of human beings. This is a demonic possession, conditionally speaking, unlike any other. Because each doppelganger is believed to have been conceived at the same time as a human. They all have the same origin because most Muslim scholars were in agreement that all evil Ginn are the direct descendants of the devil himself. Doppelganger is conceived at the same time as a human and at the moment the child is born is the sense to the visual world and gets to be united or tied to its human. Over the course of a lifetime, this creature will whisper to a child, tempting the person to indulge in its passions and to follow its whims. The bond between this Ginn and human is unique because it was formed by the will of God himself and it cannot be broken. A karin cannot be murdered, it cannot be trapped, it cannot be exercised, which are some of the common methods humans have dealt with Ginn over the course of centuries. There is only one way to be safe from a karin and that is too converted to Islam. Of course, a Ginn is pretty immune to proselytism, it is stubborn, obstinate creature. There are some rituals that I incorporated into my book. One actually comes from the works of Ibn Rabi himself to summon this creature to try if a person wanted to try to reason with them and talk to them directly. But this is not a method of Ibn Rabi approach. His proposed way was to deal with karin indirectly. Because a karin is a true doppelganger of a human being in a true sense of the word. And by doppelganger, I used the definition of Eliza but from Phan in my works, a doppelganger is like a dark mirror of our soul or embodiment of certain parts of our soul that inhibits our psyche as a foreign body, often harboring dangerous temptations, as well as promise of redemption. Karin is like a dark mirror of our own soul, even it resembles its human, even in appearance. Especially in popular culture, it is believed that the fate of a karin is closely tied to the fate of its human. It tempts human, it leads them to sin, to doom, to hellfire if it can. But at the same time, that's where it will also end, if that is how human is fated to end in life. At the same time, if a human proves to be more powerful than a karin, if it manages to remain pious and just over the course of a lifetime, and even develops spiritually ascend to the stations of spiritual development, that will have impact on the karin as well, being a doppelganger of a person. There the subspecies is unique, and the karin will of course convert to Islam and even serve as a guide, a spiritual guide to a human to the best of its ability. This is what makes this piece highly unique, and in my opinion, it also offers a unique view of a common concept in Sufism, in a baryon Sufism as well, about humans serving as divine vice-regions on earth. God appointed humans to be his representatives, his vice-regions in the visible world. In a way, that makes them responsible for the fate of other living beings, and the fate of their demonic doable in particular, especially since by the divine will, they are also bound to share that fate as such as it is. Dr. Reshich, this is so fascinating, so whereas in least in quote unquote Western society, you might have a perception of Jin or tempting spirits to be shunned, they are completely evil this and that. What you're saying is when it comes to the Claudine, these Ginnic doppelgangers, they are in effect a pathway for the mystic, for the spiritual aspirant to actually not only ascend by overcoming temptation and ascend closer and closer to communion with the divine, but you can also, as Ibn Adebi conceived of, you actually can convert the Jin, the Claudine, the Ginnic doppelganger to Islam and to live a life of piety and goodness. Is that what Ibn Adebi is conceptualizing? Yes, but we should be careful. You said that Jin will be viewed in the West as something negative. The view was actually the same in Muslim cultures and societies. Ibn Adebi was well aware his position might be controversial, even though it was based on prophetic narratives on the Hadith, on the words of the Prophet Muhammad himself, who claimed to have managed to convert his Claudine to Islam, and now it does only good. Ibn Adebi writes in his books about the debates raging between Sufis, between his contemporaries. There were not a few Sufis, he says, who were in favor of another method of trying to use rituals or spiritual practices, which were sometimes referred to as the Red Dead to kill this creature, somehow injure it, cripple it because they believed that the Jin are beyond redemption, that the gardens of heaven and paradise are out of the reach and will remain out of the reach necessarily, forever. Ibn Adebi did not share this belief. He believed that no creature is beyond redemption, and he believed that one ought to follow the example of Prophet Muhammad in all things, and if it weren't for that, well, it is impossible, he believed, for a human to contest the divine will, even in the slightest. We cannot wish things he created into non-existence. It is impossible for humans to stand up to God. So even if we had no compassion for Jin, and Ibn Adebi actually did not have compassion for evil spirits, he expresses not once his hope, his desire, that even if Jin were to read his books, that they were being capable of comprehending them, and thus getting spiritually elevated in process, he did wish evil upon these creatures, who also would try to harm him the best as they could. But even if we lacked compassion, there is that tiny fact that it has got himself who formed a bond between each chorine and its human, and that this is a bond you cannot break, that you cannot undo. So even if not out of compassion, you should try to help them, to help them convert, to help them ascend spiritually to the heavenly gardens, because this is a faith you yourself are as aspiring to, that was his approach. In my book, I also tried to illustrate different teachings and footnotes. In every book of mine, I really tried to acknowledge the fact that there is not one monolithic Islamic culture, there are numerous authors, numerous Muslim cultures and societies. So even though my personal quest for knowledge, and my personal research centers around Ibn R. Bizwax, when you read my books, you will see that the scope is much broader, that to the best of my abilities, I tried to cover all primary sources, as well as secondary literature, to offer broad perspective and numerous possibilities and interpretations of Quranic notions of religion. These are at the center of every research, of every Sufi, Quran, and prophetic narratives, such as Hadith. But then they add personal saver, personal interpretations, and that were so partially inspired by the divine visions and revelations they received. In my books, you will also find teachings of other Sufis, that are sometimes aligned with Ibn R. Bizwax, sometimes they contest them. But we are discussing Ibn R. Bizwax here, first and foremost. Talking about all of the characteristics, or some of the mutually agreed upon characteristics, of the Khadim, and one of those that you talk about in the book as well, are the shape-shifting abilities of the Khadim, and you mentioned that in some traditions, the Khadim have a tendency to appear in the form of a black dog. Can you share a little bit more about some of the shape-shifting abilities and shape-shifting context for the listeners? The ability is based on the fact that, to the greatest percentage, the bodies of these pieces of whole chin are made of fire and air, which is the second most dominant element in their bodies. Their bodies contain water and earth in just tiny, tiny percentages. Unlike the bodies of human, a rich or more firm, earth does not allow for the shape-shifting ability to develop and to thrive as fire. In a door, shape-shifting, when you open any neck or all historical media, or manuscripts from the Ajayb genre, manuscripts depicting or assembling wonders of existence and wonders of creation, they are often followed by miniatures of jinn, in the exotic form that are often half-human, half-animal form. I think I've heard some of these miniatures in my book, there's, for example, a jinn named Titan, which has a head of a goat, body of human and legs of an elephant. Even I've been noted that the jinn take great pride in their bodily forms. They believe, they show off how creative they are, the power of their imagination, even are actually taught very little about their imagination and of these pieces, in general, because he said this is not something they invented. They just swirl around the visual world, seeing a goat here, an elephant there and a human, and then they make a patchwork of what they saw and what they learned. These forms are not something that can be attributed to jinn, it is not something they created. He doesn't specify, he doesn't elaborate on this tendency of demonic doobles, and often in literature, in manuscripts, in art, we see both the lower soul of human beings, and it's microcosmic counterpart, doppling younger, tailing a human being in the form of black dog. Even Arbi himself does not explain on this tendency. As I mentioned before, he did not think the bodily form of jinn one bit important, since they love shape-shifting, their bodily forms are very fluid, very atrial, very impermanent, but I encountered other authors saying that jinn like to appear complex, they thrive on abiquity, they thrive on complexity. Dog are traditionally perceived as men's best friends, but at the same time, these animals objectively have a bad reputation in Islam, mostly owing to the sayings attributed to the Prophet Muhammad, for example, that no angel will ever enter a house in which there is a dog. So perhaps this is something that the jinn keep in mind while a shape-shifting, while assuming the form of a black dog is obiquity of dogs in religious works and literature. We also, Dr. Rashech, have a listener question for you from Jibriel, and Jibriel is asking and saying, "Hi, Dr. Rashech, I love your book and I am so excited you are coming on the glitch bottle podcast." That makes two of us, Jibriel, absolutely. Jibriel says, "You mentioned Dr. Rashech that as a general rule, the direct, contact and interactions with jinn were condemned among Akbarians." And so Jibriel is saying, "How can Ibn Adabi's work contain instructions for how to summon jinn?" And yet, he says he recommends taming the jinnic twin indirectly through soulwork. Can you share about each of these ways to engage with the kareen? Thank you, Jibriel, and you already shared some context, Dr. Rashech, but what else would you like listeners to know about this? Yes, that is one of the more interesting moments over the course of my research. When I encountered this ritual instructions on how to summon another monic group in Ibn Adabi's Kitab al-Khalwa, it is possible to do so, Ibn Adabi gives the exact instructions. For example, I translated the whole ritual in my book. He says it is necessary to cyclude oneself from the world, from 40 days, and to stick to the diet that is mostly based on bread with olive oil and bread with rest. Then, during the prayers over the course of these 40 days, there is an incantation that needs to be imagined. Ibn Adabi claimed never to have used this method, although he heard numerous authoritative reports of its efficiency. He claimed that he was afraid of the chant, of the strange unknown names that appear in it, that made him scared, that made him mistrustful and fearful of using the chant itself. Coincidentally, even many decades later after he wrote this book, we see the chant appearing in his own hand on the margins of his other works, so it never left his mind. Yet, even if we put this aside, possibly using demonic names, or possibly using chants that contain demonic names, whether this would be allowed or wise thing to do or not. The reason why Ibn Adabi preferred not to engage with Jin was not moral. It was strictly utilitarian, because every step he took was meant to bring him closer to God, was meant to increase, refine his perception, and increase his whole, his spiritual abilities. And Jin, he believed, are useless to a seeker who is on the path. They are incapable of helping humans ascend spiritually, even if they were willing to do so. He said, because these creatures are cursed, they were cursed by God because of their curiosity, because of their impudent, brush nature, to be incapable of ascending higher above visual world. Incapable of transcending the world of nature, so they could help a magician to conduct miracles, such as, for example, having flowers blossom in winter. That's one of the examples, Ibn Adabi said, but of what use are they to Sufi, of what use are they to truly powerful, wise men, whose ambitions transcend magic tricks. That's why he was against someone interacting with Jin first and foremost. There was another reason. It's not just that he thought that our friends and people we interact with reflect our qualities. He believed that we ourselves will necessarily always be impacted by the type of people whose company we seek, and what good he asks can come of seeking company of a creature that is both aggressive, arrogant and worse, still ignorant. As I said, Ibn Adabi was not a compassionate man, like the prophet Muhammad or Jesus, who worried about the well-being of you and lowly filthy animals, such as pigs and dogs. He was not compassionate, and the main motivation to redeem a doppelganger, to redeem a jinn and help it was that there is no way of being safe from it by helping it ascend. Thus, he preferred indirect method of dealing with doppelgangers, via spiritual works and practices and refining, honing your character and spiritual abilities that will, in a different automatically, induce the similar refinement of the nature of that very jinn that is bound to him. What I love too is in your book, you also share about some of these details, and one of them is the Chareen-Jinnik diet, and you've touched on this a little bit before, but for example, you share that the Islamic normative tradition says that while jinn may eat rice and bones and leftovers that humans eat, a chareen feeds on the evil deeds of humans. Can you elaborate that the evil deeds and part of this tempting, as you say, is really part of the sustenance, part of the nourishment for the orana? Yes, just a one-side remark, what I believe that I wrote is that, actually, when you look at religious works and literature production in Muslim culture societies, it's religious scholars and Jewish students that were not concerned with anatomy or culture or social organization of jinn, they mostly used them as book-y men to spook people into behaving properly. Even R.B himself was different, and these discussions that we had on the anatomy of jinn, on their character traits and abilities, these all come from even R.B's works. When it comes to their diet, this is not something that even R.B. saw for himself innovation, but he claimed to have known a supe, whom a god blessed with piercing sight, and he saw how jinn swirl around humans while eating, inhaling the smell of human food, which was presumably sufficient to keep them nourished. Jinto plagangers are somewhat different, and starving them was a central key method of supe doing them in many Sufi works. The one that you mentioned comes from the works of El Hazali, El Hazali famously described the meeting of two doppelgivers, one of which is thin, frail, and manseated, in contrast to a very plump doppelganger, of another person who was an infamous sinner and glutton, and the Korean fisted on his evil deeds, thus gaining not just in body weight but also in strength, and this is the earliest record of doppelgangers piecing on the evil deeds, and sometimes even the souls of human beings, which later inspired numerous other scholars, because El Hazali was one of the most beloved and one of the most influential Sufi scholars, or maybe I could even say scholars in Muslim cultures and societies, and I believe it was on his authority that the subsequent claims and descriptions of a jinn diet were based on. In the Quran, I believe Iblis, this very powerful jinn, was commanded to prostrate to bow down before Adam, and Iblis said, "No, I will not do that. You created me from fire, and I am superior to this fleshy clay Adam and fleshy clay human." And all of the other jinn that were shayatine descend from Iblis, but the Quran are not from that line of Iblis, correct, is that, would that be somewhat fair to say? No, they are, like every evil jinn, a descendant from Iblis, the devil. This term, shayatine, can be used for an evil critter, both jinn and, for example, humans. So, they are born evil, they start as evil critters, Iblis was also supported, rotiori, that all evil jinn are the direct descendants of Iblis, the devil, himself. But, yes, they can be converted to Islam, unlike Iblis. When they see that their human has ascended and reeksed certain stations of spiritual development, they give in, and they bow down to humans, which is something that makes them unlike their infamous father. Love that context, thank you, Dr. Raschich. And also in the book, you share about this, but what are the differences between the hareen and ghouls, for example? And can you share what would happen when a jinn was attempting to eavesdrop on angels, according to Al Hazwini? I just love these contextual analogies, it's fantastic. Yeah, those are those moments. The very reason why jinn cursed not to be able to ascend above the visible world, because of their arrogance and their curiosity and their very big mouth, they just cannot help, but share divine secrets with humans. But as of your other question, it's basically the difference between subspecies of a jinn. When it comes to ghouls, they are probably one of the most famous subspecies that appear in the literature. It is somewhat difficult to define a ghoul. For example, Jaz is one of the authors who says that ghoul is a general term for any jinn, which is a shapeshifter, basically means all of them, and lures the travelers away. This is something the ghouls are infamous for. They were typically described as desert jinn, and inhabitants of desolate places, they would usually and typically lurk near roads, and their typical victim would be a lone traveler or a merchant who would appear to them in a form of a beautiful woman, luring the unfortunate human to follow her if it can, where he would meet his doom, usually the person would end up devoured. Boybo to ghoul and the other evil jinn and monsters, the ghoul was cooperating with. Now, that is perhaps an interesting motive. Over the course of my work on this book, "Baddaled", I encountered an interesting claim by L. Robbie. He wrote a paper about the Arabic ghoul and its Western transformation, where he claims that all these legends are describing ghouls as foul monsters, zombie-like rotting corpses and necropagies, actually originated from Antoine Galand and his translations of "101 Night". This is one of the potential research focuses I am hoping to pursue, if not, if someone beats me to it, you are more than welcome to do so, because I have also encountered in some medieval Islamic texts the descriptions of ghouls as many ting monsters. For example, there is Jin King Al Ghoul and his daughters who like to feast on human flesh and blood. So this is definitely something that is worth researching, when exactly was a shape shifter, mischievous Jin, who can murder human travelers, because that is completely in its nature, become accused of man-eating, when were they originally and first described as man-eaters as grave-diggers and necropagies. That's one definitely an interesting question for researchers to come. Dr. Reschitz, as well, you know, in the book you also share about, you have the Khareen, the Purana, these jinnic doppelgangers, and you also have spirits of a location or spirits of a place, whether it's spirits of the desert or a forest or some specific location. What is the relationship between the Khareen and spirits of a location or spirits of a place? Well, they're often mixed up, even in contemporary scientific literature. It doesn't help that sometimes these guardian spirits of nature and certain places are referred to as twins or doobles or these places that can be groves or springs or temples. There is difference between them and demonic doobles or jinn doppelgangers, especially how even are we understand them, but also how they're mostly understood in Islamic literature and that is that jinn doppelganger is incapable of severing a bond between itself and its human. It is also a true doppelganger, a true dark mirror of its human and the actions of a human being influence and transform these creatures as well. This subspecies is different than other jinn and there are mysterious creatures who like to scare us humans, who like to spook them, who like to torment them at times and there are many records, very early records of a jinn who would settle underneath a pagan idol in an old temple and scare alone travelers or worse still, they would settle in a temple and demand sacrifices from humans mostly just for fun. It is enough for a jinn to smell a food, to feel sad. There are actually records about Muslim jinn who would murder such strictors at times and one such trickster was called Misha, who lived on the Arabian peninsula and suffered such a gruesome hate to be violently murdered by its kinsmen from among the jinn for posing as a pagan god. Wow, that is amazing and that's one of the things that I love, love, love, among many things about your book, "Badevel Dantabeshic" is the context, the stories, the annotations, how you relate different elements that really do capture, I think the diversity and the richness of the jinn-yology, which I absolutely love, by the way, I'm going to start using that, I love that study, yes it is so great and Dr. Reshich as well, you mentioned earlier that one of the goals, according to Ibn Adabi, was for the mystic, the seeker to draw closer to God, to become so close to God, to Allah, upon the wa ta'ala, that they actually convert their own karim, their own jinnic doppelganger and I think this next question from a listener, Naveteep Ball, I think he touches on this and Naveteep is asking, does the Hamzah jinn have free will like other jinns and if so, can it profess a different religion than its host, for example, Naveteep says, if you have a Muslim who has a Christian karim, can you share about this Dr. Reshich? Yes, they absolutely have free will, like humans, and like humans, but unlike angels, they can ascend and develop spiritually and learn and increase their knowledge, they have free will and they usually start as infidels. I found an interesting paragraph in the works of Ibn Barakjan, Ibn Barakjan writes of a peculiar situation when a pious human, who of course as a result has a pious karim, falls back into sin and God forbid renounces Islam. What happens then? In that case, Ibn Barakjan says, this is the only situation where God will dissolve the bond between a human being and their karim and bringing another infidel jinn and binding it to an infidel human. Jinn said Ibn Barakjan, unlike humans, Muslim jinn, will never revert to sin and can never become infidels. In a way, he had a higher opinion on jinn than of humans. To that very point about the role of the karim and the relationship to other jinn, we have a follow-up question for you from Naveteep Ball and Naveteep is saying, "Dr. Reshich, when one is possessed or oppressed by another jinn, does the karim play any role of significance in this situation? Does it form a symbiotic relationship with other jinn, or how is the relationship with the doppelganger human affected in a case of possession or oppression?" Oh no, it would never form a symbiotic connection. Sac reports are numerous in folklore, in popular culture and literature, indicating that karim really will completely suffer the fate of its human. Whatever false human will also befall a karim, including all the achesicness and that. This is precisely the reason why doppelganger will tempt its human because it is a evil creature. It tries to make human the same as itself. But it will never try to drive its human to insanity, simply because then the jinni too will become insane, which is something they are naturally trying to avoid. So I found records in the popular culture indicating that a karim will often come to the defense of its human and defend the human from demonic possession, thus also defending itself from madness or sickness. Another evil jinni might induce. Are there other examples? Sometimes a very powerful jinn, a royal, a noble from among the jinn, could force a karim to murder its own human. There are also such records in popular culture, I encountered, but not in the writings of the elite. We also, Dr. Echich, have a listener question for you from a clearing in the woods. I absolutely love that name. A clearing in the woods is asking and saying, "I'm quite excited for this discussion and book." Having recently realized the instantaneous imposition of opposites, I view such awareness as a powerful, yet potentially treacherous mechanism for recognizing and integrating one's wholeness. My questions are, what are the inherent risks of invoking a jinn doppelganger and how does one manage these risks? Well, this is or I do something that I said. It's a brush, lying, deceptive, aggressive creature. Probably, it would not tell the truth. Probably, it cannot be reasoned with. Which is why even either beer did not think it worked well to try it to summon it. Not in the least, since the summoning process includes incontations containing potentially exotic, potentially demonic surnames. Many listeners are familiar in not only the Islamic tradition of esotericism, but also in the European tradition, with the seven jinn kings of the week, Borkhan, Memun, Alabia, Dalahmahr, et cetera. These seven jinn kings are used in esotericism for invocation and evocation and dealings. So, what is the relationship, Dr. Reshich, between the seven famous jinn kings of each day of the week and the jinnik doppelganger, so the korana? Jinn society was believed to be a mirror, a dark mirror of human society, just like the doppelgangers were perceived as a dark mirror of the human soul. Their society and their social structure are believed to mirror our society. Even R.B. in particular speaks about 12 clans. Ahmar, the red king of the jinn, is traditionally identified as the ruler of jinn doppelgangers. In some works, I also found other names of other rulers, kings and queens alike. This is hardly surprising, because even R.B. believed that jinn are mortal creatures. They're not like angels. Even though their life spawn is longer than humans, ultimately, they must die. So, one shouldn't be surprised to encounter various names of rulers. One other common name is Abu Dibhach, the king of all doppelgangers, and his famous secretary, Ismail, or sometimes even the demoness, Umm El Cibyan, was taught to be the queen of all doppelgangers. But these different names are likely yes to be attributed to the fact that the rulers die and are placed by another ruler in a similar way as it's the case with human dynasties. Jin, according to Ibn R.B. reproduce very, very similar to humans with single exception. At least according to Ibn R.B. The single exception would be Iblis the devil, who is a permoproded capable of self-impregnation. That's why he didn't focus so much in his works on the names of the famous kings. He names some of them, but doesn't go into great details knowing very well that just like him, just like us, they're all so bound for that. Starting as well, Dr. Ashich, which you delineate so well in your book, "Badeveld" is a theme that I know previous guests have touched on too. This is the relationship between Sarah in Arabic or, you know, magic or Negro Manzia, and verses other things like Ruhania or in the book what you mention, Simea, or natural magic, the knowledge of plants, herbs, and almonds. Can you just share about the differences and what these broad two different categories are and how do the kareen fit in to that? I'm laughing. I actually wrote a cute little paper two years ago. I was bound for Dublin to attend the conference. The name was Demons Good and Bad. It was scheduled for Halloween. I was inspired by both the occasion and the lovely people around me to write a quick paper. It's called Fatima, the Right to Sorsers, and even Arab is notions of magic and miracles. It's based on almost candles, shocking sentence. I encountered in chapter 73 of even Arab is book the Meccan Revelations. In this chapter, even Arab uses the word "sehra" or magic or sorcery, how I decided to translate it, has a synonym for kara mat, which are saintly miracles. Because he says that both saints and sorcerers use the same method or rely on the same knowledge of the divine names and letters. Letters are important if you remember how the world looks in Aquarian Sufism. Words of God inscribed on parchment of existence. So they use their knowledge with their letters to break the conventional order of things and create spiritual feats that can be classified as miracles. Of course, in other places, yes, he does make a difference between seehra, which is a common sorcery between kara mat, which are the miracles that God's friends or saints committed. And most importantly, mghzad or prophetic miracles. And in my paper, I also deal with these nitpicking. I can shortly summarize it. Usually, he says all miracles operate on same knowledge and same principle. But a magician relies on his or hers, on abilities, first and foremost. They learn from books, they experiment and are thus very disaster-prone and are always at great risk of madness, of loss of reputation, if their experiments fail publicly or yes, death. It is not so with saints who usually have the support of God while committing themselves to a similar spiritual feats. Whereas God sates and Sufisheks, such as for example Fatima Bintel Muthana, who was one of Ibn Arbe's teachers, are sometimes referred to as sorcerers. He really refers to Fatima as Sahara, the sorcerers. God's prophets were never referred to as magicians. And here he does make at times a very sharp distinction between the sorcery, saintly miracles and miracles committed by prophets. The difference is not so much in methods, but for example in stringed sorcery and saintly miracles just cannot compete with the power of prophets. For example, he said no human can resurrect the death. Such prophetic miracles are also always carried out with God s permission, various magicians and God s friends can act independently. And usually prophetic miracles are carried out when the authority of a prophet is challenged by an adversary. When God himself is challenged when he wishes to send his books to humans. The word Sichar, we try to translate the sorcery, though magic is a common translation, is used also as a synonym for Simea. Even Arbe also uses them interchangeably at synonyms at times. But there is one interesting moment in the Meccan revelations when he specifies that Simea is actually demonic magic or gene magic as opposed to Sichar, a human sorcery. It is once again limited power like the knowledge of gene is limited to the visible world, to carrying out flashy miracles, the void of content such as having flowers bloom in winter or having fruit grow outside of its season. He compared such demonic magic and also sorcery to dreams. They are beautiful, they are flashy, they are alluring they attract us. But they are pointless and empty. And ultimately we wake up non-devisor and no more powerful than we were a second ago. There is nothing to be gained from it. I am hoping this paper will come out soon. It is supposed to be published in the winter edition of the journal Magic Ritual and Witchcraft, which is published by University of Pennsylvania Press. In the winter edition 2023, I mean, we are already in 2024, but soon, hopefully soon. And then if someone is interested in further details there, they can be found. Well, listeners, I can definitely say that please check the podcast and video descriptions, not only for a link to pick up your copy of "Badeveld" by Dr. Raskic, but also any links as they become available to Dr. Raskic's papers or where you can also check out her other resources, check that link below in the video description. Dr. Raskic, that is so wonderful. And as you mentioned as well, for Ibn Adabi, the primary concern was spiritual ascent drawing closer to God. And to that very point, you have a chapter in your book "Badeveld" that is entitled "The Great City," Ibn Adabi's great city. Can you share what is the great city and what is the relationship that Ibn Adabi traces between the body or an Arabic jism, the soul, the nafs, and the spirit or rue? What is the relationship with these three and what is the great city? Difficult question, complex. But especially since those are broad terms, but let's put it this way, any effort to purify the soul and the heart of a seeker can be referred to as the conquest of the great city, Pat Al-Medina in Aquarian Sufism. Consequently, great city is at times identified with human heart because there are things attributed to the Prophet Muhammad reading that sin literally darkens the heart, paints it black, and every effort to purify it, to make it pristine, white, again can be referred to as the conquest of the great city. There are diagrams or talismans of the great city, as Ibn Adabi referred to them, in Ibn Adabi's own hands, surviving to the date. And sometimes this city with seven gates has been identified with the seven layers, seven aspects of our heart. When we imagine human beings were created in God form, when we think of the basic component of this being, we often speak of the human body, soul, and the spirit. The human body is the visible part of our sense. And as such, it is relatively easy to define and comprehend as opposed to the soul and the spirit. I will not engage in this trying to begin at this point, but maybe we could say that even Arabic at times treated the human soul and spirit as synonyms, there are direct quotes from the Mecca and revelation to support this being. There are other quotes to support other interpretations. For example, we already mentioned that Muslim believed that God made Adam of clean. This is our gross material body. And then he imbues this form. He blows in it some of his own spirit rule. And this can be identified as the human spirit, the part, one tiny, tiny piece, a bit of the divine spirit, the divine bread that resides between us bodies, that we must give up in that. As opposed to this spirit, sometimes the soul or nups has been identified with our ever-changing personality, our ego and our character traits, but it can also be identified with human instincts. Instinct that ensures the survival and health of the physical body. If you read in the Quran, you will encounter different terms, such as the serene soul, the blaming soul, and the lower soul, al-Nos, al-Amara, that I deal with a lot in my book. This doesn't mean that even are we believed or that Americans interpret these verses, that this doesn't mean that the human body hosts several souls at once. These are different aspects of a single soul, which is always one, that have different functions. For example, some of the most important aspects of the soul or functions of the soul are vegetable, soul, ratful soul, and the inspiring soul. Vegetable soul and the inspiring soul are the most important of the tree. They're in charge, for example, of the well-being and nourishment of the physical body. They inspire us, instill in us desire to seek shelter, to seek fine food, healthy food, water, and clothes to protect ourselves in winter. Sometimes however, the desires become excessive. The soul is no longer concerned with the needs of the body. It starts grasping. Sometimes it gets to be consumed with rat. Sometimes it becomes twisted, yearning for evil things that will ultimately corrupt both the soul and the human heart, turning it black as night. In such cases, when the soul is acting in this way, we sometimes say that it turned or that this is the lower soul, naphs al-amara, which is a microcosmic counterpart of demonic doobles. This is an important aspect of human artist teachings, as above, so below. Human beings who were made in God form were taught to be a tiny, miniature copies of the universe and all in it. All realities, all things in existence are reflected within ourselves. Microcosmic counterpart of demonic doobles would be this twisted lower soul, and sometimes same methods were used to both subjugate and transform, refine the soul, and to convert kharin to Islam. They can be both referred to as the conquest of the great city, like any other effort to purify the heart and the soul, or there is another term, a red death. This term is based on a belief that one can literally murder the soul, murder the doppelganger, rather than converting it after refining it. This is something that even Arabic himself, for example, deemed impossible. He rather rather were used this term "death" in another context, as a reference to spiritual wavering and entering the spirit world even before the death of a physical body. That's one interpretation. Another is, it refers to the mortification of the lower soul, denying it is desires, weakening it so that it can be trained refined and transformed. You mentioned in the book that there was this group of Jin conjures that were known as regal al-had, or men of the limit, who operate at the boundary limit between the land of felicity and the land of wretchedness. You mentioned that these regal al-had, these conjures, they thought that if you summon the corana, if you summon these Jinic doppelgangers out in the open, you can actually fight them out in the open and fight them easier. Can you just share about this context of the regal al-had and fighting and these Jin out in the open? Yes, this is what some people believed. Even Arabic did not outright deny it, but the reason why they summoned these creatures was not so much to fight them, at least not this men of the limit. Some other conjures did summon doppelgangers to fight them, but these conjures were mostly summoning other species of Jin to interact with them. They sought their companies out of loneliness at times, out of hope, out of greed, yearning for miracles, yearning for power over the world of nature, yearning for forbidden knowledge that Jin may have a stacks of heavens, such as, for example, the knowledge of the future, yearning for power to conduct miracles. Even Arabic, as I said, simply did not think it is worth the risk of interacting with unpredictable critters, such as Jin, also because they are ignorant, also because they are arrogant, and they cannot really help a truly powerful seeker. That's why he didn't have such a high opinion about the men of the limit, although, yes, he didn't contest their power. He didn't question their power to summon the Jin. He believed it can be done, and yes, he claimed to have met with people who have successfully conducted the rituals. They were known to have conducted. He just didn't think it necessary, nor wise. One of the most famous persons ever in Western esotericism is, of course, King Solomon, or an Arabic sotsileman. Many listeners, Dr. Ashish, to your point about this intersection between mysticism and magic, many listeners are familiar with King Solomon, or Suleiman's commanding of the Jin with permission from God. But in the book, I was fascinated, you detail, about Sahar, the Arin of King Solomon himself. Can you share about Sahar and why did Sahar try to betray King Solomon? First, I need to say that these records about Sahar, these wonderful stories, are not, strictly speaking, a product of my own research of primary sources. The credit must go to Clark and his wonderful paper. We cast upon his throne a mere body that was published in the Journal of Quranic Studies, and Sichiko Murata, both of whom researched these narratives about King Solomon and Sahar in great detail. Clark was the first to identify Sahar as Solomon's demonic tubal. She is dark, the one decoder. And these stories can then be read exactly in this context of why it is so unwise to someone, or Karin, before it is converted to Islam, because it is essentially an evil, wicked, treacherous creature, which usually relies on silent whisper and stealth to corrupt the person, but summoning it in the open, trusting it, interacting with it, gives it an opportunity to change his tactics and strike her better. According to these legends that Clark and Murata documented, Solomon enjoyed friendly relations with his jinn. He engaged in long walks over a beach and long conversations, but the first opportunity, Sahar betrayed Solomon, a man next to steel, which was a gift from God himself and a great source of Solomon's power, and even take Solomon's throne for a while, until Solomon managed to reclaim his ring and subdue a wicked creature. Yes, these are reports that Clark amassed. I really recommend reading his paper. Can be also at cautionary tales for those who would be prone to ignore and turn a deaf ear to Ibn Arab his warning and try conversing, try who would dare to open their hearts and give their trust to a demonic doable. That is one of the biggest lessons that we talk a lot with guests about, specifically about those practical considerations and having protection and thinking about exactly. Before you even think about engaging in any of these rituals, you know, the question should be, why? Why are you doing this? What is the goal? Exactly. Ibn Arabi, as you so wonderfully share, Dr. Ashach is always concerned about the mystic, the aspirant, drawing closer to the divine, drawing closer to the beloved, drawing closer to a loss upon the Watha'ala. Can you share in addition to what we've been discussing today, what are two or three big misconceptions about jindapal gangars, about kurana that you would like to leave listeners with? What are two or three things that are really key that you would like them to take away from this? For example, it's misportional that you are burdened with one such creature. They can be quite useful to a good person, to a pious person who, as a result of their piety and virtue, is also more likely than not to be a spiritually accomplished person. That would be maybe one misconception. A second misconception relates maybe to the general line I am pursuing in my perception. It is based on a simple motto, a simple message, even are we try to convey or and over again. And this is know who you are, know who you are as a human being, as a god, vice region of earth. Know what is your potential? What are the possibilities out there so that you can direct your aspirations in the right direction? What use do you have from conversing and indulging in conversations with the jind, enjoying the company of such ignorant creatures? It's also a foundation of my next research I am pursuing. I was really happy when you told me that you enjoyed the richness of my book because I was writing it with awareness in mind that simply there are no scholarly works on the jinn in English that are encyclopedic in scope. A work comparable to Tobias Noon lists, for example, the moon and globe in Islam, where you can just open a book and learn the basics about jinn culture, about their clans, about their rulers, cultures, books, they like to read the sciences that they are attracted. So yes, my book also centers around even arabist teachings. It also deals with the great perennial issues such as the problem of evil, but I was also aiming to write a rich introduction to the world of jinn. I am now aiming to do something similar but with the realms of angels. The book I am writing will hopefully also serve as an introduction to the symbolic functions and roles of angels in agbarium, Sufism and Islam. Although the book sucks centers around one angel in particular, Azrael the angel of that himself and the attitude towards that in Islam. And here once again we come before this question, before this imperative, know who you are. The very word Islam implies submission to God. And there are many paragraphs in the Quran reading it is God himself who decreed that all humans must die, that angels are absolutely obedient to God. And yet from the earliest centuries of Islam, we have records of prophets who stood up to the angel of that using specific rights and methods one at time. So the Sufism seekers used amulets to subdue angels and the angel of that to extend their life on earth. And in my book I am planning to navigate these delicate problems. How even are we justified the rights? He also claimed to have successfully conducted to extend the life of his loved ones on earth. How did he negotiate between the duty to obey the will of God and his right of exercising power of God's vice regent on earth, exercising the power that God gave to Adam, the power over angels, the knowledge of the divine names that had angels bow before Adam at the dawn of time. This is one of my forthcoming projects, for example. Well, I think by my count you are so proficient that you have five or six different projects that you are looking at right now. No, no, not that much. There's that one about the angel of that. I am hoping to finish it in the next few months. And it is my greatest desire to offer it, if I can, to Penn State University Press. This is one press I am a great admirer of. And I would really, I'm really, really hoping that the editors would like my proposal once I'm done with it. Other than that, I have one other project. I think the contract is ready with the University of California Press. I have a book about the night and the mysteries of the night. And one special, strange group of spiritual seekers even are a big claim to have discovered. They were collectively known as the Night Folk, a whole LA, the people of the night. And they are strange saints, unlike any others. A strange saint who refused to read the Quran on their own, pious Muslims who don't follow in the footsteps of any prophet, complex spiritual practitioners, even R.B. referred to as evil. And yet it's such they were described as the greatest lovers of the divine blood whom God loves so much that he created the night, the whale made of night, just to shield them from the world, and have them all for himself, such as they are. My book focuses on their beliefs and practices. Even R.B. claimed he was the first to become aware of their existence, but I found records about them going as early as 7th and 8th century Anodomini. And I'm comparing these records to Ibn R.B.'s works, trying to show how the concept of the Night Folk changed and involved in Muslim cultures and societies. I have many other minor projects, but no, I don't have as many big projects as you think, just Azrael and the Night Folk. Truly, truly, just such an honor to chat with you about your latest book, bedeviled listeners. You must check out the podcast and video descriptions to pick up your own copy of bedeviled as well as checking out other links where you can check out Dr. Ashish's work and support Dr. Ashish. And Dr. Ashish too, as we wrap up this main podcast, are there any other parting thoughts that you'd like to leave listeners? Anything else you'd like listeners to know about, either about bedeviled or gendopplegangers or anything at all? If there are any questions, there would be more than welcome to contact me or email. Maybe there's just one parting thought about the bedeviled itself, the book. If anyone is interested in it, they're of course pirated copies floating out there, but those who are interested in buying a book around Halloween, the soft cover edition will be published that will be much more affordable than the hard cover copy that can be bought currently. So, yes, maybe just a small announcement. That paperback, affordable paperback is coming soon. Scholar, author, her latest home is bedeviled, gin, doppelgangers in Islam and Akbari and Sufism. Dr. Dunear Ashish, Dr. Ashish, thank you so so much just for taking some time and sharing on the podcast. Thank you for inviting me. I'm very happy. Thank you. Listeners and glitch bottle patrons, I really, really hope you enjoyed and appreciate that chat with Dr. Dunear Ashish as much as I do because her work is really pushing the boundaries of our understanding and our apprehension of the chareen of ginic doppelgangers, but also the relationship between humans and predestination and what the majesty of the divine is in relationship to spiritual hierarchies. All of these points that Dr. Ashish shares are things that will deeply, deeply inform my own research, practice and studies. As always, thank you to each and every glitch bottle patron on Patreon. It is because of you, the podcast grows in new and interesting ways, and if you would like to support the podcast and put up with an inordinate amount of nerdiness and delving into the grimwars and ritual magic, check out patreon.com/glitchbottle for exclusive perks. As always, this is Alexander F reminding you to invoke often, uncork the uncommon, and keep the light. 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