TNT Radio guest host Basil Valentine speaks with American political commentator Benjamin Rubinstein, to discuss the controversy surrounding the 2024 Venezuelan Presidential elections as well as the sanctions on Venezuela and how it affects day-to-day living conditions in the country. They go on to talk about the storm of orchestrated misinformation pushed across social media platforms and the U.S. State Department’s relentless efforts to overthrow Nicolás Maduro. What are the prospects for peace and stability in Venezuela?
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ATTENTION: The Patrick Henningsen Show MON-FRI will be on summer hiatus for the next few weeks. Appreciate all of you who have been tuning in. We’ll see you all in due course.
"Acts no spin or agenda not enough with the lies we need the facts" This is today's news talk radio TNT Welcome to the program Benjamin as you heard in that sweep of that we need the facts but the facts coming out of Venezuela seem to be well it's whose facts do you want at Maduro's all the oppositions? Yeah the opposition in Venezuela is famous for their alternative facts they did indeed illegally publish 80% of what they said was the vote however some journalists such as white read with the gray zone have gone and looked at some of these signatures and some of them are a bit similar let's just say that they're very suspicious signatures Now 80% of the vote was counted by the CNE the Venezuelan electoral council and they declared Nicolas Maduro to have won now there's 20% that I believe haven't yet been counted and that is due to a cyber attack that the CNE was facing during the day of the election now anyone everyone knows that there's only one sort of group that would have vested interest in cyber attacking the Venezuelan electoral council so and it's certainly not Maduro himself having won his previous two elections now it's worth mentioning that you know in Maduro's first election he won by a slim margin the second one he won by a very large margin this one the margin even by Maduro's numbers is smaller and and so there is waning support but this waning support is a result of these sort of coercive sanctions that the Venezuelan people have been suffering under there's over a hundred ninety hundred sorry nine hundred and thirty sanctions on Venezuela which even back in 2019 the Center for Political and Economic Research or SEPA published a study showing that over 40,000 Venezuelans had died as a result of those sanctions so just to interrupt but we've died of war to starvation malnutrition sure lack of lack of medicines yeah exactly lack of access to critical medicines like medicine for AIDS for example and and that was in 2019 which was quite a long time ago at least for the the younger the younger generations um so there have been estimates that those sanctions have caused over a hundred thousand deaths now um and so the US State Department is actively coercing the Venezuelan population into trying to get rid of Maduro and of course it comes back always to the oil like and and the raw minerals like gold Venezuela has the largest gold deposits on on the continents so um obviously you know when we see people like Elon Musk taunting Maduro and taunting Maduro and you know saying he's going to take him to Gitmo on a donkey it's because Elon Musk wants access to that gold and Maduro knows that and even called him out saying you know he he already owns Argentina with Javier Malay who has some of the world's largest lithium deposits which are also needed alongside gold to manufacture things like batteries and other uh you know high tech um infrastructure yeah yeah um the Guardian is reporting that under Maduro's 11 year presidency Venezuela has taken an increasingly authoritarian tech and been plunged into economic chaos but do you think that's fair uh have living standards deteriorated for Venezuelan was absolutely fair election up to the point of the count i believe this was a free and fair election i wasn't there personally but i have many friends and colleagues who were on the ground in invited to observe the electoral process people i trust through and through they show me that the election was legitimate and so i have no reason to disbelieve them um that being said of course the economic situation in Venezuela is dire at Venezuela's entire economy essentially relies on their oil and the thing about their oil is that it's thick it's like tar so it needs to be refined and their refineries are broken down and they can't be repaired because of sanctions so of course Venezuela is taking some serious hits and the living standard has gone down that is exactly how these sanctions coerce people into uh getting rid of maybe somebody wanting to get rid of somebody they maybe once supported now that being said um sorry i'm getting a phone call um that being said um you know Maduro still has the overwhelming popular support in and when people call him you know authoritarian um it's it's worth mentioning that these opposition people are they're not calling them opposition is polite they're fascist and i don't say fascist just willy nilly that's not a word i really throw around like some other leftists but they are fascist in the sense that they burn people alive they they raid voting centers they attack uh they they uh torture people they they view socialists or anybody who isn't with them as subhuman um and it is very much a class-based thing uh isn't very much a racial thing uh you know as it is in Nicaragua a lot of the times lighter-skinned people do have more money um so that definitely plays a role uh a large portion of Venezuela's economy is still privatized however so they these people do have a lot of influence um even if they don't have direct control over the government uh perhaps unsurprisingly with that lunatic Javier Malay uh as its chief Argentina has today followed the United States lead uh it's fine mr diana mondino declaring edmondo Gonzales the opposition leader the legitimate winner and president elect and Uruguay has done the same thing however yesterday brazil columbia and mexico issued a joint communique urging Venezuela to release detailed voting tallies is that going to be possible uh is there you know a path to consensus out of this or is it just going to be a continuation of the stalemate the sanctions uh and indeed possibly even another coup attempt in the weeks and months ahead by the united states yeah absolutely you know uh the united states has interfered over 20 elections since i think the 1998 um they've tried to assassinate madura multiple times it's even on camera they john boulton tried to blow them up with an explosive drone and failed uh the u.s sent sort of a black ops uh off the book a mercenary team of of uh special forces to try to assassinate or capture madura alive that failed after they got arrested in a fishing village by um basically militant shavistas and as a side note there it's worth mentioning there's an essentially a fourth branch of the Venezuelan government which is made up of collectivas or communes communes and a lot of those people are armed so you know if there was even the the military has come out in support of madura but even if there was a situation of civil war it wouldn't be clean cut because there is that huge massive base of armed militant uh shavistas so um i think we will maintain the status quo here they've announced edmudo gunzales they've recognized edmudo gunzales as the president um of an asuela even though he lost the election uh that being said they did the same thing with Juan Guaido who you know became a meme and it was a laughing stock of of much of the world um and now he lives uh retired in Miami so edmudo gunzales i think we could all expect him to go the way that um Juan Guaido went now in terms of sanctions yeah i think there there there are more sanctions coming imminently i think the Venezuelan people are going to suffer that being said the multipolar world is is developing at a rapid pace um and organizations like BRICS um and even individual uh bilateral relations with countries like Russia and Iran are developing so um you know Venezuelan inflation is very very high but it has been going down um and you know especially uh their relationship with Russia is critical from a security point of view um Vladimir Putin sent a letter signed um as a president of Russia and referred to president Maduro as Nicholas like as a on a first name basis in an official diplomatic letter um so the relations there is very strong um and so there is there's there's hope uh for a betterment um of nico of rather of Venezuela um due to its of its allies well one can understand why the chattering class is in the west however um raised their eyebrows shall we say uh at Maduro and his government uh now i don't know whether she's simply obviously lying for political purposes but Maria Corinna Machado uh wrote in an opinion piece in the Wall Street journal published just hours after the election results that came out that uh she fears for her life we won't rest until we're free she said uh she's committing treason right if i was committing treason i would also fear for my life uh that being said Juan Guaido when he was named um in term president by the US state department was able to walk around Caracas freely uh and unharmed whether you agree with that decision uh from an internal Venezuelan politics perspective or not is another question that being said uh Machado Maria Machado uh you know once published a letter a few years ago calling for the United States and Israel actually to or to do regime change in her own country um and essentially invade so uh you know she is a treasonous person she does belong in prison how uh you know Maduro has said as a Venezuelan citizen i think she belongs in prison what he will do as president uh remains to be seen um but they are directing violent acts they are they are trying to work with other states so overthrow their government that is illegal that is treason but we're going to take a short break now when we come back what are the prospects for peace on the streets of Venezuela with both sides calling for their supporters to take to the streets of the capital tomorrow Caracas could be a tinderbox we'll be right back for those who crave more than just reading headlines in their social media feeds we'll need to wake up today's news talk out T&T and welcome back to the program today Friday the 2nd of August Basil Valentine here sitting in for Patrick Henningson uh Maria Machado has called on her supporters in Venezuela to take to the streets of Caracas tomorrow morning to intensify their campaign against presidents elected Nicholas Maduro uh who they blame for one of the worst economic meltdowns outside of war zone in modern history meanwhile Maduro is called on his supporters to rally on the same day in an attempt to project strength that's the way uh it's being reported in the west uh let's hope that it doesn't turn into some sort of bloodbath or civil war Benjamin yeah i don't think it will you know these are sort of tried and failed tactics of the u.s state department that have been going on for more than 10 years they've been trying to overthrow Maduro so while things may be intense right now while there may be violence in the streets right now mostly being being committed by the opposition as they have historically participated in many acts of terrorism I think eventually it'll taper off and the situation will stabilize Maduro is here to say and even god forbid if Maduro was somehow assassinated uh there's a vice president there's a chain of command it would so it would well would be a great loss for you know the Venezuelan people and the Bolivarian revolution uh it would not be the end of sort of socialist Venezuela or Shavista shavismo in in Venezuela so i think you know there there's a process um you know it was not so long ago that the United States was trying to negotiate with Maduro because they need the oil they basically cut themselves off from Russian oil and so where do they go for oil they go to Venezuela and there was some progress with that but now it's become politically expedient um especially with elections coming up not only for Kamala Harris but for Donald Trump to uh placate there these sort of far right exiles and Miami who uh essentially open uh represent I guess perhaps one of the most violent foreign lobbies um in the United States um they've kind of taken over from the Cubans in the 1960s the Cuban exiles that were uh sometimes identified as playing a role in the assassination of John Kennedy sure exactly and and you know they they work together with the you know Cuban exiles Nicaraguan exiles Venezuelan exiles they work together and they they um you know they actively try to lobby the United States to overthrow their own uh their their governments back home and I guess the end conclusion of that would be so that they can return um and live the way they want to live which you know if they're in America I guess that that is sort of unpatriotic in a way you know I I was talking to Kim Iverson and she had said you know this is unpatriotic you know you if you're an American and you're living in America you should be lobbying the government to do more for America not for your home country so then you can just leave after using us right it's unpatriotic um and it's a it's a waste of taxpayer money that doesn't benefit the American people in any way and um you know even even somebody like Nick Fuentes who was like oh yeah I support Venezuelan regime change because we need uh the oil and all we have to do is stop the immigrants from coming in well first of all they're never going to stop the immigrants from coming in as long as they're destroying other countries in in South America Central America but also it's not the American people who are going to benefit from cheaper Venezuelan oil it's the oil executive so that uh so so these foreign sanctions these sanctions on foreign countries this economic warfare it just does not serve the American people in any way but is it not though really a case of sort of two sets of bad guys the fascists on the one hand who you described Machado and Eduardo Gonzalez but uh is there not an international criminal justice case international court case against Maduro and Resizaro of course the former Maduro minister who's been in exile in 2015 said these guys have committed so many crimes referring to the Maduro regime there's an investigation for crimes against humanity running against them into the in the international criminal court the US is after them with bounties of 15 million dollars for drunk trafficking they know if they lose power they're going to jail so for them staying in power is a matter of life and death obviously i don't know the ins and out of these cases or indeed whether there's anything substantive to these accusations been well you know it wasn't until very personally first of all i have never seen any evidence of any of those accusations and it wasn't until recently with the israel israel court case in the international court of justice where they were sort of doing something worthwhile in the past the international court of justice has always been um what was once described as something to go after uh you know corrupt african dictators it's always been weaponized against the enemies of empire the enemies of the globalist and the enemies of the united states and Nicholas Maduro is very much an enemy of the globalist he has control over his oil economy they have the most oil reserves in the world so they will say anything they will do anything to try to and they will leverage any arm of international law or any body uh that that can assist them in this fight even if it means blackmail and we know that blackmail does happen to the international court of justice indeed the guardian is reporting that the pieces on the chess board are moving with respect to Maduro and whether or not he can stay in power they say many of the countries impoverished barrios which of course have been the life lead of support for the chevismo movement named after his mentor former president hugay chavis they've mobilized against the president with thousands of residents joining anti-government marches from communities such as petari and antimono in the capital karakis rafel cantillo a 45 year old dissenter from a favela called el campito in petari says everyone has come down from the hills because we've been swindled everybody knows we have been swindled everyone knows that we won he's talking about the opposition that we won with more than 70 percent of the vote i mean that's an extraordinary figure not even uh Joe Biden managed to swing that bigger a fake result it's unbelievable it's unbelievable and while they may be claiming to be on the left they you know how can you be on the left and be doing the dirty work of another country through the u.s state department he said we came down from the hills because we were swindled while clearly he is in a chevista who lives in a commune perhaps he does live in a commune and you know some communes have different politics some of the there's you know it isn't like the united states and as well as the democracy there are many different parties in groups they form coalitions there's not the two-party system like we have in the united states and there is also not election fraud like we have in the united states so you know there is a diverse set of opinions and while some people may be upset from the left at the end of the day Nicholas Maduro uses his state money to build homes he's built millions of homes for impoverished people they have a free food program that feeds impoverished people called the clap program which by the way was sanctioned by the united states um so you know as i said you know there's a process in venezuelan democracy. Maduro is not a dictator he does negotiate with the opposition he does negotiate with the state department even and he tried doing so in good faith um not so much the case in the united states where as i said there's only two political parties there's an electoral college it's not even decided by the vote of the people uh so it's it's ironic uh luisa nathio lula the silver of brazil has been working behind the scenes to produce a peaceful political solution to the crisis he of course enjoyed very good relations with Hugo Chavez when both were in power at the start of the century he even he though hasn't yet recognized Maduro's victory and has asked him to publish the data supporting his claim to victory. Maduro says for his part that he will hand the voting tallies to supreme court auditors but has yet to commit to their publication something that has previously happened surely Maduro has to publish all the voting uh results uh but in order to uh to quell this storm quite frankly i agree he does have to but he can't do that without the proper legal permissions it is actually illegal to do that without the permissions as the opposition did now Maduro has gone to the supreme court and asked for a complete audit in a review of the election uh he's taking this matter very seriously it's understandable why somebody like uh luula who sort of tries to often play the middle road between the united states and sort of more bricks aligned countries uh and so he some countries do want to see those results and have held off on recognizing Maduro i'm sure that they will fall in mind as soon as those results come out and show that Maduro was the winner but there is a process to these things he can't just go out and release them because that is actually legal but perhaps unsurprisingly Vladimir Putin has lauded Venezuelan president Maduro uh with him being declared the winner of course uh that doesn't surprise anyone let's hope for a peaceful solution uh more than anything else the last thing we need is uh you know mass civil violence in Venezuela isn't it and uh what's the perspective of most people in Nicaragua where you are only a few hundred miles away from Caracas people support shavismo there's a giant statue of Cuba Chavez in the center of managua um unfortunately there's a lot of fake news floating around as we've seen being shared by Elon Musk himself sharing videos from 2017 as we've seen him sharing videos claiming people are going into a voting building and and stealing voting machines which turned out to be air conditioners uh that disinformation misinformation is also taking place on uh highly used apps like TikTok and Facebook so there is confusion but in general Nicaragua has recognized uh Nicolas Maduro is the winner um and the San Venista movement recognizes Nicolas Maduro is the winner the San Venista movement which makes up a huge portion of the country um and and Daniel Ortega who has received you know something like 76 percent approval rating from the Nicaraguan people recognizes Maduro Venezuela helps Nicaragua keep their oil prices down they um and they have a very strong relationship uh in a number of ways so I think that you know in general Nicaraguans as far as they're political do support Venezuela and Nicolas Maduro that being said the thing about Nicaragua is that people despite it being a very poor country people are very political uh aren't always very political there are a great number of very political people political education is taken seriously in schools but there are a larger amount of the population is very happy to just sit back and live their lives enjoy their families their communities that is the heart of Nicaragua um and it is a privilege to be able to to live like that in a sense where you don't need to worry about the politics because you know you're always going to have food um and you know you're always going to have security Nicaragua has a very low uh you know homicide rates um anyways I think in general Nicaraguan people do support the Venezuelan uh Bolivarian revolution and finally before we go to a break Ben um I sincerely hope the answer to this question is no do you think there's any chance that the United States might use this as an excuse for military intervention no I don't I think that there's no popular support for that and uh you know we're we're probably going to talk about this in a little bit but we might have our hands a little tied uh pretty soon in another area part of the world yeah indeed we're going to take a very short break now when we come back I'll be asking Ben about the Middle East a subject we've discussed often in the past in fact Ben was a regular guest when I presented campus at lunch time so world news are uh back in November last year we hoped for an end to the bloodshed in Gaza imminently here we are now fully eight months later and still the carnage continues we'll be right back after this short break speaking on the issues that impact this is the Patrick Heddingsen show on today's news talk TNT and welcome back to the program today Friday the second of August Christian church leaders here in the United Kingdom have condemned plans for a series of far right anti-immigrant and anti-Islamic protests across the north of England uh it's emerged that pliers are being circulated for protests in literally dozens of towns she's really quite unprecedented social media messages circulated in recent days of also corporate protests to be held across Northern Ireland with venues including Belfast, Newtown, Abbey, Carrick, Fergus, Larm, Banger and north down police said on Friday that the message is called for roads to be blocked using women and children one social media message urges well-intentioned Christians parents and law abiding citizens to take part in a march from Belfast City Hall to Belfast Islamic Center at the University Street in South Belfast on Saturday to demand a withdrawal from our communities and our Christian country this is completely unprecedented stuff and goes far beyond protest at the stabbings uh the dreadful you know ghastly horror film incident that we saw uh where three young girls were killed by someone who turns out not to be Islamic at all but is the children of Rwandan immigrant parents at the same time the nominal spiritual ahead of the Church of England Archbishop Justin Welby has called on nations to respect the advisory opinion of the international court of justice issued last week which declared the Israeli occupation of Gaza and the west bank illegal I'm delighted to say that Benjamin Rubenstein joins me on the line this afternoon Benjamin you're Jewish but I know you're not a Zionist I don't think the Zionists regard Justin Welby as anything but a silly fool in a fancy just dress costume do they not going to pay any attention to what he says I don't think they care about what anybody says it's hard for them to care about what their own kind says they're Zionists themselves say you know there are various kinds of Zionists and the infighting on social media is quite interesting to watch um but the reality is is that you give us a joint interrupt could you give us a little insight into that because uh the people like myself as Zionist is a Zionist now one thing that the dreadful events of October the 8th onwards have resulted in is that the anti-Zionist movement people who no longer believe in a state of Israel based on Jewish supremacism that's become a legitimate point of view far more so than it was 12 months ago even amongst Jewish people you know the single state solution one state with equal rights for everybody has become you know much more common currency now political discourse rather than this fairy tale two state solution but within Zionism itself you say there are now infinitesine disputes breaking out Ben yeah there are um so-called progressive Zionists who you know want a two state solution they don't have very much of you know power within Israeli society um there are uh more extreme Zionists like khanis who was uh convicted terrorist rabbi essentially and these are the sort of you know Marbengevere um basil smokerich types who just want to you know wipe out Palestine openly genocidal um there are moderates um but even the moderates are very much genocidal um at the end of the day the progressive Zionist from my point of view are um I guess I would say that they're in denial I think that they are in denial about the reality of Zionism and what Zionism necessarily dictates which is the wiping away of Palestine um and so you know once in a while you'll see one of these progressive Zionists on social media just sort of having a a crisis of consciousness and then you know of course they forget it about a few days because they're allegiance at the end of the days the Zionist project um but but yeah there are internal divisions but at the end of the day a Zionist is a Zionist Basil uh yeah no absolutely but it's kind of uh whereas that's been uh you know well a term that a lot of people have been perfectly willing to embrace now it seems that you know if you are a self-confessed Zionist then you are in favor of genocide because there is no other type of Zionism on offer anymore if there ever was I mean when I grew up um believe it or not even non-Jewish people went to the kibbutz in Israel the Arabs were kept well apart but they all sat around the fire holding hand singing kumbaya and uh talking about making this sort of promised socialist utopia i'm talking about back in the late 1960s and 1970s but that vision of Israel doesn't seem to exist anymore instead you have people rioting when soldiers are arrested for torturing people I mean you know if you say the kahannas that I was referencing right these these kahannas believe that you know the Palestinians should have no rights that they're no not human and um and that they should be able to rape them and torture them in prison I mean it's extraordinary that you actually vocalized that uh you know quite succinctly as a position and it seems that in the west people are reluctant to confront that they still want to believe that essentially the Israeli government, Israeli society is no different than what it was in the 1980s and 90s the days of uh rebellion that that's the that's what was the politicians failed to appreciate go on well I don't think it is any different I think the the rod has just come to the surface yeah um well having said that the fulcrum of uh Israeli politics has shifted to the right there used to be a labor party that wanted to talk peace there isn't any more uh that that's the difference, but they were never really interested in peace they they pretended like they were but they never actually did right yeah yeah that's true now uh Joe Biden's I mean look and they're still not interested in peace they just assassinated Ismael Hanian and whether you support the guy or not at the end of the day he was the one leading the negotiations for a ceasefire so uh yeah they're in no way interested in peace and they they will sabotage any any peace talks at any time uh Joe Biden described that killing as unhelpful uh about you know it's an understatement it's an understatement considering that you know Iran has raised their red flag of revenge um Hezbollah is vowed revenge the Houthis will probably jump in the Iraqi resistance could jump in and and the situation is dire listen Iran needs to establish deterrence they just had the one of the leaders of the access of resistance assassinated and IRGC residents uh and that is massively embarrassing and it is a massive national security threat Iran this this cannot be like the previous time a few months ago right they they assassinated um some IRGC officials at an embassy and and it took about a week but Iran did eventually respond by uh with a calculated strike of a few rounds basically probing their defense they're showing them that they can do more but it was enough we thought to establish deterrence apparently it was not so now Iran has to actually do more they have to do something equal or greater than what Israel just did so what does that mean that means that Iran is essentially in a situation where they have to take out a high high value target uh is some leadership level target in the Israeli government around has to do that or else they look weak they'll lose support um and that is untenable for the access of resistance so that is going to make it necessary for Israel to also strike back because you can't have a a senior official or a leader of a state assassinated and then not retaliate so it's it is impossible right now um politically for Iran or Israel to jump off the escalation ladder and so that's why we've seen um you know the US send something like 12 warships uh to the area I guess Jordan is going to open their airspace um as well so in the meantime Iran has any country that interferes is is a legitimate target so you know I said this one day one sorry I said the Sunday one that we're going to head into a regional war um and we have been slowly inching closer to than that to that and I think it's about to hit its apex uh you know after that you know truly disgraceful exhibition of sicker fantasy and fawning in front of the war criminal and child killer in congress 58 standing evasions and prevention Netanyahu I mean really quite simply the sickest spectacle I've ever seen on the international stage in my lifetime but the outcome seems to be that Netanyahu has been emboldened uh that Israel feel they can do absolutely whatever they like uh and the word used by state department spokesman to describe the united states relationship with israeli's iron clad uh and indeed the ships of iron have sailed to the eastern mediterranean so people are saying the reason why israel is acting even more like a homicidal maniac than it usually does it also of course killed the Hezbollah commander in Beirut this week is mel jane was assassinated al-jazeera journalists and guards have been killed quite apart from the dozens of palestinians routinely killed and maimed and the ongoing starvation and all the rest of it the reason why they're doing this now is because they want the united states on their side in this regional war that if they can escalate things efficiently with Hezbollah they can get you know united states troops and weaponry actively involved in a hot war first with Hezbollah and then with the state nation of Iran as well yeah absolutely I think that's exactly what they're going for israel can't win that war by themselves i mean they'd be fighting that's right half a dozen fronts so they need the united states to go in and do them for them they need american women uh sons and daughters to to to spill their blood and service of design this project and they're doing this for their own their own um regional ambitions that you know israel wants to break free of america's essentially colonial dominance over the state of israel israel at this point its existence is completely dependent on the support of the united states and so by dragging the u.s into a regional war against iran the axis of resistance and maybe even at that point against turkey um the israel would at the at the end of that if they win with the help of the united states they would be able to take over and establish the greater israel project which many of these kahanas that we were talking about have have openly advocated for and that would allow israel to gain of power and control to potentially break free of u.s colonial dominance and uh start to build their own zionist empire um and i think that there are a lot of traitors in the u.s government who are aware of this uh and want want to help it happen uh i was talking to fellow jewish anti-zionist tony greenstein uh along since campaign and writer in britain and he said that you know tony greenstein very sharp very bright mind uh he said he thought ultimately of course that is rather going to collapse within now they're not doing themselves any favors with this continued escalation her flights into tel Aviv have dried up to a trickle delta airlines united others have stopped all flights uh india today has joined a growing list of carriers lufthansa as well and frances urge the citizens to leave iran i mean uh this also reports i mean i don't know if they're true social media you see thousands of israeli citizens at ben gurion airport in terra v going back to brooklyn or wherever they came from um so uh you know i think tony is right yeah i think tony is right i think is is more extreme sort of khanist variants of zionism take more and more power um it's destabilizing israeli society as the war continues on um where the genocide continues on uh it's stretching israeli society thin there you've now started to um conscript uh heredi men uh which were not for the ultra orthodox yeah and they who have always been exempt from military service here all of israel's history um and so not only is um israel facing uh you know internal resistance in the west bank and and gods up but they're also uh they're there's internal divisions in in their own society are are exacerbating extreme extremely fast um so yeah i do i do think it's possible it could collapse from within i think more likely they'll the collapsing from within will create an opening um for uh external forces to help give that collapsing a bit of a nudge as it were you've got to love uh the way the way the liberal media in the west reports what's going on in washington um biden who has pushed hard for a ceasefire in recent months said to god is this kind of some kind of that's it you know it's an absolute joke isn't it you know uh claim is that he's had a very direct conversation with netan yahoo about the need to reach a deal we have the basis for a ceasefire he should move on it and they should move on it now but i mean well joebay is a senile old fool he has nine yahoo is playing him like a puppet um and you know he Joe Biden lacks the cajonese to do what's necessary or the mental system you know i mean Kamala Harris has been criticized for saying that uh the anti-genocide protesters on us campuses uh showed emotion you know uh she wasn't automatically condemning all of them as a rabid anti-seamites which of course is the required position on capital hill do you see any prospect for a slightly more enlightened administration should she become the president on the journey the fourth which personally i expect her to do not at all no i don't i don't think so i think she's just trying to not lose the michigan vote and that you know she you know we've heard this kind of thing before though it you know there are there is a line of thinking where um where Kamala Harris is essentially clinton operative and bill clinton uh secretly back to you know a two state solution personally i don't trust Kamala Harris to play hardball with israel i think um you know i'm not voting for either but i think donald trump would be more likely to play hardball with israel but even though trump has sometimes allied himself with uh some of those berry cajamas to meet and jd vans called for his Gaza to be completely flooded he wanted to kill everyone basically i mean sure yeah totally there are there are video clips of trump um you know saying basically saying that israel is the one who doesn't want peace he just published a response to a boss sending him uh you know a letter of concern over his assassination saying everything will be good mohammed um and so uh i i think that donald trump will align himself with ever he will needs to and to you know benefit his own legacy but what would be uh a greater accomplishment in terms of legacy then uh bring peace about the middle east and the only way i'll answer any instance uh state well yeah i you know trump is i would agree by nature a deal maker um but so finally to look on the on the bright side am i kidding myself that uh there is a worm turning and the whole uh israeli question uh is being less directly associated with jewishness now the reason i say that is because people like yourself jews against genocide occupied the capital um uh before netanyahu's speech they were in the rotunda building a worm is turning particularly amongst young people jewish people in america and indeed in the united kingdom here the huge jewish block on the on the peace marches so can we finally have a conversation that talks about Zionism as a political and military movement and not as simply an ethno one because it's supported by so-called questions spent 30 seconds yeah i think the numbers of jews who are turning against the state of israel over its genocidal colonialist behavior is growing especially among the youth in america who have been taught never again is not just for jews it's for everybody so i do think those numbers are growing um i think they will continue to grow there's a whole lot more work to be done especially by anti-azionist jews with electric platforms um and you know it is an uphill battle it's an uphill very slow battle i think that we'll see the most anti-azionist jews come about uh when the war ends
