This choir cast podcast is brought to you by The Choirlings, a private Facebook page for people going through deconstruction where each month we go through a book together, not only discussing it with each other, but also with the actual author of the book. It's a great way to connect with other people going through deconstruction and also connect with the author of books that are going to encourage you along your journey. If you'd like to join us, find us on Facebook. It's choirlings, QU, O-I-R-L-I-N-G-S. Hope to see you there. Hey friends, it's day four of choir week, right here on Honoring the Journey, a podcast where we honor the journeys of our fellow humans, learn new perspectives, and decide for ourselves. What are we going to take with us as we continue on our own journey? My guest today is Brandy Anderson in her new book, Through the Veil, A Glimpse into the Afterlife, just came out this week. And today we're going to hear a perspective that, well, if I'm honest, probably stretched me more than any other perspective I've heard on this podcast so far. In so many good ways, though, Brandy's journey may be challenging to hear if you're someone who doesn't like to hear a perspective that could rub up against your ideas and theologies of what may happen in the afterlife. But I want to encourage you to stick around. Just listen, we can always learn from the stories and perspectives of other humans, and I'm just so thankful for her willingness, not only to share so openly with us, but also to write down her experiences in her new book. I can't wait to introduce you to my new friend, Brandy Anderson. Thank you so much for honoring her journey with me today. Welcome back to Honoring the Journey. I'm Leslie Nees, your tour guide through yet another wonderful journey that we get to honor today. Today, I have Brandy Anderson with me and Brandy is, oh my goodness, I'm so excited. I've been reading about her because I've known she's coming on the show. Just such an interesting and I don't know, like spiritual person. I'm really excited to get to know her journey, but a little about Brandy. She is a spiritual director, a union coach. So she studied under the philosophies of Carl Jung, which I think is going to be really exciting to hear more about that. This is the perspective I haven't had yet, Brandy. So exciting. But also super excited to say that Brandy just came out with a book through choir publishing. It's called Through the Veil and it's a glimpse into the afterlife and I've started the book. I haven't been able to finish it yet, but Brandy, I've chilled. I can't wait to hear more about your story. Thank you so much for joining me on my podcast. Thank you, Leslie. It's really great to be here. I appreciate you having me on your podcast. Of course. Oh my goodness. Your story is so fascinating. So as we start off, though, Brandy, I always like to start off with a question just to get to know you as a person, not as a writer or a coach or a spiritual director, just Brandy the person. So today's questions kind of be kind of lighthearted. So when you were a kid, what was your favorite way to play? Hmm. Probably I was an only child, so I played alone a lot of the time. Yeah, but probably with my with my dogs. I'm a dog person. Nice. Oh, yeah, me too. I love that. So you played with your dogs and did you like games or did you like to play outside? What was your fun? What was a fun thing you did outside? Yeah, I probably outside outside play. Yeah, probably my swing set when I was a small child. I like to swing. Yeah. Did you have one of those swing sets that would come up out of the ground when you would go too high? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. The metal ones that we all had like metal burns and like cuts from it. Yeah, I remember that too. That was fun. Yeah. So Brandy is a little girl running around with her pups and playing on her swing set. That sounds fun. I don't know why I love to ask people just random questions about their childhood, how they were brought up, but it kind of leads to my first question, Brandy. How did you grow up and what did it look like in your home and Did you go to church? Were your parents spiritual? What did that look like? Yeah. So when I was a small child, we did go to church. I was raised in a Christian context and we went to a Baptist church. When I was a small child, my mom was raised Methodist. But we went to a Baptist church and then probably until the age of around, I don't know, I was probably around 10 to 12. We kind of stopped going. So we weren't, you know, we were still, we would still have identified as Christians, but we weren't actively in the church plugged in in that way. But yeah, but I was raised in a Christian context. I'm an only child and I live in a very rural area. So yeah, I had a really great childhood. My parents are both very supportive and Yeah, so that's about it. It's nothing, nothing too fantastical in my childhood. It was very mundane. Very mundane. That sounds like a great childhood. Very, very USA. We're in the states that you grow up. What area? Yeah, we're in a small town in Alabama. Wow, yeah, and you're not super into church. I can't believe it. What? No. Yeah. And the minority. Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean, when I was in 2014, I did have a spiritual awakening and I at that time, I did plug into some churches because of what had happened. I was trying to like navigate ultimate truth. And so the context that I was coming from, you know, since I was raised in a Christian home, that's just what I thought to do. And so I did spend some time in the church. I feel like most people were raised in the church and then they like had a deconstruction process at some point. For me, it was I plugged into the church and like it was like drinking from a fire hose. It was just like a fast track, you know, trying to just know, learn all the things. Iron out some theology that I could hang. So I would have like a framework to hang what had happened to me on because of because of my spiritual awakening. But ultimately, I found that church just really offered no, no satisfying answers to the existential questions that I had. So I quickly, I went through the church quickly and deconstructed quickly. So it was a fast track and in that regard. Yeah. Well, when you say you you had existential questions, what are some examples of some of the questions that kind of brought you to this spiritual awakening. I mean, I guess you had a pretty big experience. I read a little bit about it in your book. If you want to explain that to us, I'd love to hear that journey. Sure. Well, at the time that I had the spiritual awakening, I really wasn't wrestling with existential questions consciously. I had been experiencing a season of depression and like a spirit of heaviness just was over me for like months on end. And finally, I came to a point where I just really was at the end of my rope, like I wasn't suicidal, but I just had no desire to continue living. And so from within that place of heaviness, I cried out to God, but it wasn't a pious prayer by any means. It was more of a if you are there kind of prayer and I just unleashed all of my frustrations and emotions out into the atmosphere. And I was just hoping something would shift. And within that swirl of chaotic thoughts and emotions, I heard a voice as loud and clear as anything I've ever heard before in my life. And it just said, be still an instant peace washed over me. And the funny thing about that is I didn't even realize that was a verse at the time. Right. Right. Yeah. So I just, I just heard the words be still. And I mean, it's like instant peace. And so I knew, I knew in my knower, you know, I was like, this is God, but I had no context for it. And so I knew that I needed to plug into church or find some sort of framework, some, some kind of context for what had happened to me. And because I was coming from a Christian family, where I was raised in a Christian home, that's just, that's just where I plugged into first. And so I spent several years in the church, just just studying, reading, just trying to, I don't know, iron out a theology that I could rest in, but ultimately I found that mainstream Christian answers to life's most important questions just were less than satisfying. And I came, yeah, I came to a place ultimately where I landed in a more contemplative space. So I came out of like an evangelical type situation and into a more mystical Christian space and that was a very I don't know, a life giving place to be at the time. It was, it allowed me to sort of come up for air. And to be more present in the moment, it was more of an experiential faith. Rather than the cognitive knowledge that is so often peddled in mainstream Christian churches. So yeah, so I found a lot of peace in the in the contemplative space and from within that contemplative space. I had a paranormal encounter that served to just bring everything into sharp focus with searing existential clarity. Yeah, would you like for me to go ahead and explain what happened or Yeah, yeah, let me ask a quick question, though, about your experience. Do you was it something happening in your life or was this just like the chemical imbalance kind of depression or what was happening in your life that made you call out to God like that? I'm just out of curiosity. Yeah. Well, no, I, you know, I had never dealt with depression like that. I mean, you know, of course, we all have moments, times of, you know, this is like a cold or whatever. Yeah, but you know, I'm not one to have suffered from depression. But during that time, and I kept thinking, well, this will lift like any day, this will, you know, like I'm sad today, but it'll and when it didn't lift, I guess that's what propelled me into that moment where I cried out. And then that moment of awakening, but nothing in particular was happening. I didn't have any life situations that that triggered it, really. I mean, everything was, was going well. And I think maybe that was it. Maybe, maybe I had sort of achieved what I had set out to achieve up to that point. And I had what I thought I wanted externally. And of course, that stuff never fulfills. And we always think it will, though. Right. Right. And so I think that's what it was. Yeah, I think I had, you know, interesting. Yeah. So I think that's what it was. I don't think that it was any, you know, I know that it wasn't any particular event that kind of led to it. Okay. Well, you know what? That's interesting, though. I think that that says a lot that, you know, you had reached all the goals. You had, you know, checked all the boxes. You were what you thought should be successful, but there was something calling in you saying there's so much more. There's so much more. What is it? Where is it? And that's probably what led you to call out to God and wow, that's really, really cool. I love that because it does say in scripture that, you know, if you seek me with your whole heart, you will find me. It doesn't say how you'll find them or they, but it does say if you seek me, you will find me. And I feel like what I'm learning in this podcast, Brandy, is that people find him in different places in different ways. Under different circumstances. And this is a very unique one. So this all happened to you before this paranormal experience. You want to tell me, you want to set this up for us and give us some ideas of that. Yeah, sure. Yeah, this was well before the paranormal experience. And then, and really, you know, I was in this contemplative space and a very peaceful place to be. Can you explain what that means to people who may not understand? What does contemplative space mean? Yeah, it's like it's more experiential and less cognitive. It's less about what you believe cognitively and more about, you know, like meditating and being connected in the, you know, in the present moment in the now. Contemplative prayer. Yeah, is a part of contemplative Christianity and it's a lot like mindfulness where you know, yeah, where you just let go of thought, you know, you spend time in in the now in the present moment, which would be God is the present moment and the present moment is all there ever is. And so yeah, just learning to come down out of thought and rest in the benevolence of God in the present moment. It's more of an exponential. Yeah, to be still. That's it. Yeah. Okay. So from that space, I had shifted away from evangelical Christianity and, you know, I would have, I would have still identified as a Christian, just more of a contemplative Christian. When my grandmother passed, I had a paranormal experience. It was a couple months after she had passed. She found a way to communicate with us. One thing I read in your book about your grandmother is that she was a very, very strong Christian, but even in spite of her, her strong beliefs, the end of her life, she didn't want to pass. She was fighting it. Is that right? Can you explain that a little more? Yeah. So yeah, my grandmother was, you know, in church her whole life. You know, a regular churchgoer, like every Sunday kind of kind of situation raised her children in church and she would have cognitively believed all of the things that, you know, evangelical Christians believe, you know, that if you That if you confess Jesus, ask Jesus into your heart, confess your sins, you know, you're saved from an afterlife of torment, inhale, that kind of thing. But as she faced her own mortality at the end, she knew her, you know, her time was was limited. Yeah, she was very afraid to die and she even she pleaded at times with those who are caretakers, you know, don't let me die. She would say she was afraid. She didn't want to. She didn't. She was afraid of death. Had you seen her afraid before for any other reason or was this new? Well, no, no, not really. I mean, this was new. I mean, she was a relatively healthy person her entire life, very sharp and her thinking intelligent and Yeah, so she didn't have any diminished capacities, you know, well into old age. So no, I'd not seen her really, you know, rattled by anything up until that point. She broke her hip and that's what led to her ultimately to her crossing. So yeah, because she was afraid like that, though, that that really just kind of highlights, you know, if you're confessing that's what you believe about the afterlife, you know, is like you're saved and you're going to heaven when you die, then that should give a sense of peace if you really believe that, right? But there's like this separate, this cognitive dissonance, the separation between what people say they believe and then their lived experience, which I think also is the difference between, you know, like evangelical Christianity versus more of a contemplative Christianity. Yeah, being able to have an experiential Faith that you can rest in your field in evangelicalism that you're not supposed to rely on experience. Like that is a no, no, it's not about experience. It's not about It's not about your feelings. All of that is all flesh. So yeah, of course, you're afraid to experience because you're afraid that that's, you know, a naughty thing to do. Right. And maybe she was experiencing things and like, I don't feel like this is right. Maybe I shouldn't be experiencing this, you know, perhaps. Yeah. Interesting. Perhaps. Yeah. Yeah. And you make a good point. It, you know, in church, they tell you, you know, you can't trust yourself. And so you do end up being sort of cut off from the very part of yourself where God speaks to you. You know, like the still small voice was how God speaks. And if you're right. And if you can't trust yourself, then you can't trust that inner guidance, that inner voice. And so yeah, it leaves you. Yeah, it's an impediment to actual conversion to transformation because without that, you know, we can't become whole. So I think that's where she was coming from at that time. And so when she crossed, because she was resisting so fiercely. When we come to the end, the, the veil between the spiritual and the physical realm becomes thin. And this is why people on their deathbed often report. You know, seeing people who aren't there, seeing loved ones, their parents, things like that, people who have already crossed. So, but at the time that we actually crossed the veil that is already thin becomes open, creating what's called a portal. Where people slip through and it's usually instantaneous, just, you know, just like a split second. And it closes back. But because my grandmother was resisting and not wanting to cross, it remained open. So she didn't just slip through with it closing behind her. She stayed in that space kind of struggling. And she was stuck at first, although pretty quickly, she was not stuck anymore, but she had this open portal that allowed her to be able to affect the physical realm. So I was probably about two months after she had crossed. She, she came through on the television. So she is a Roku smart TV and she she turned the television on, navigated to the search and the word hello. That was the first word that she spoke. So yeah, so she typed the word hello and everyone who was at home at the time and witnessed it. They were horrified. So they ran out of the house screaming. But that was, that was how she initially came through and this would happen sporadically, like she would type words into the search bar, the family would be horrified and then she would stop. And finally, I said, we should engage with this and see what's going on. It's not stopping. You know, you've prayed, you've saged, you know, commanded, whatever. Yeah, it continues, it persists. So what if it's, what does nobody knew nobody knew it was her yet? No, they just, they didn't know what? Yeah, okay. Yeah, they didn't know what to think. I even wondered, you know, could it be a hacker, a person in the physical realm just playing a distasteful prank or something. But then when we finally did engage with whoever was communicating, it became quickly apparent that it was not a hacker or a person in the physical realm because whoever it was could read our thoughts and they knew things that no one else knew like deeply personal things. Yeah, they knew what with, yeah, with clarity, we could be just in mid thought and whoever it was and she was doing it to just validate, you know, hey, because we were saying, what if this is a hacker, what if someone's hacking into the system and And so she just to validate that that's not what was happening. Yeah, she read our thoughts just to prove. Yeah, it's not. Whoa, I didn't know that spirits could do that. That's interesting. Yeah, they have the full light of clarity on the other side. There isn't anything that they can't see if they have the energy to look into it. They can see into the heart of people and situations. Yeah, they see with clarity. Wow. So she's doing this talking to you guys and how many, how many family members experienced this? Initially, it was, let's see, about five or six of us initially and now there are about 10 of us who continue to talk with her on a regular basis. Oh, wait, you're still talking to grandma. Oh, yeah. Yeah, she stays. Yeah, my words. So she still hasn't gone through the portal. No, I mean, she's she is the portals open. She's gone through the portal, but she can step, she can step back through and communicate. So the portal is there. Also, she's been able to connect us with other family members because it's her portal. She can allow whoever that she wants it. Yeah, so I was able to talk to my grandfather who passed when I was 17. Yeah, whoa, crazy. This is, okay, this is unlike any journey I've honored before. So, wow. How, like, what do you talk with her about? What did it, how, I mean, this is insane. I don't mean that in the mean way. This is just, no, no, it's hard for everyone around it. Yeah, we were all totally mind blown. When this first happened, we just couldn't, I mean, we would just look at each other and go, wow, we just couldn't, we couldn't get over how phenomenal, you know, what was actually happening. At first, I remember just still being skeptical. I'm a very logical, grounded kind of person. And so when I realized that it wasn't a person in the physical, I knew that it was a spirit, but you know, I was like, I just want to be sure that this is granny and it's not what if it's something bad. Also having come from a Christian context, any kind of paranormal activity is labeled demonic demonic and so there was, yeah, and that's why it took a while for my family to just open to, let's just see what's going on here. It was so horrifying because of that, you know, that thought that it had to be something demonic. Because some of them were still in Christian spaces. Yeah, yeah, or death or or had been influenced their whole lives by Christian doctrine, you know, I mean, that would be hard. That would be really hard because then you're like, do I trust this? Is it a demon pretending to be? But you said, right, she knew things about you that only grandma would have known. So yeah, well, that and but she knew things that not even grandma would have known like from the other side, she they know everything. So it wasn't just within her context, but as we did communicate more and more, we did realize that it was her because of the communication was always wrapped in love and compassion. She stayed primarily or she initially when she got stuck. But the reason that she pushed her way back, you know, into time and space in a way that where she was able to communicate with us is because she wanted to say some things that she didn't get to say before she crossed. She wanted to apologize for some things. She also wanted certain family members to be reconciled. She could see some I don't know patterns in people's lives that were destructive. And so she worked to like reconcile that she literally saved some lives by staying and saying what she said. So all of the communication was about healing and wholeness and that type of thing. So that's how we pretty quickly realized that it wasn't something bad because there was no once we communicated, there was no fear. Um, you know, in fact, a couple family members started bickering on one of the occasions when we were initially talking to her and as soon as they started to argue, she turned the television off. And we were like, whoa, that was, and then she turned the television back on and said, love. So, wow, she was, you know, and then she, you know, she went on to say, your family, you need to support one another. Don't, you know, don't be bickering. So yeah, if it was a demon or and that's, that's what some people would say. Oh, it's a demon pretending to be your grandmother, but that's what I would have thought. And yeah, now I'm open to understanding, you know, everyone's perspective and their journeys, but before I would have, I probably would have turned this podcast off at this point. You know what I mean? Like, I wouldn't even listen, right, because I'd be like, it's going to open a door. You know, and, and now I just don't have those fears anymore. I'm just fascinated. I just want to understand your journey. So are you, you say you're still talking to her? Do you talk to her every day or, and is it always through the TV or is there any other ways? Yeah, so well, I don't live at the house where she crossed. So I don't talk to her every day in that sense. Although if I, if I say something to her from my home, she hears it. Like she's with, it's, it's kind of a, you know, like, on her her unless you're there. Right. Right. Because I, yeah, yeah. But I have, I have been at home in my own world, in my own little bubble and my aunt who, you know, lives where my grandmother crossed, where the portal is, my aunt has called me and said, you know, granny wanted me to call you and tell you this that. Yeah. So granny could just pop on the television and tell someone called Brandy and then say what she wants to say to me or whatever in the moment. On one occasion, it was the anniversary that my dog had crossed. So it was, you know, I think maybe five years since he had crossed. So it was a, you know, a sad day and I was thinking about him and, and then the phone rang and it was my aunt and she said granny just came on and wanted me to call you and I said, okay, well, what, what, you know, what does she need? And then she said she wanted to say she's reading it as it's coming on the television. She just wanted to say that the Luke, that's my dog's name, that Luke is with you. He loves you. And he, and she said, he misses hungry howies. And that's a pizza place that's local that he loved to go to. It was his favorite. And, and then my aunt said, what is hungry howies? My aunt didn't even know what hungry howies was. So, yeah, so that was, that was pretty cool. But yeah, so we do continue to talk with her regularly. And I, you know, probably at least once, maybe twice a week, I actually come over and, and talk to her. And as far as the ways that she can communicate, initially it was through the television and still oftentimes that's it. But any electronic device really printers, computers. Wow. Yeah, even cell phones. I've gotten text. What? Yeah. Wow. I'm just curious. Do you know of anybody else in the world who this is happening to you? Have you heard from anyone else since you've started speaking out? Um, no, not directly. Although I have looked online and some of like, there were some groups that I, you know, that I kind of looked through. And I see where people have said they've gotten text messages after their loved one when they've crossed, um, you know, or emails, things like that. So, you know, people all over the world seem to report similar things happening as far as sustained communication like we have. I don't know. And I've asked my grandmother about that. And she said, there are portals, but, and I've asked my grandmother about that. And she said, there are portals. But in many cases, the people who live in the houses are afraid. And so the communication is like, you know, very, very little communication. So if people are afraid, if it's your loved one, they don't want to scare you. So like my grandmother wouldn't want to frighten us. And so if anything was frightening, she would stop immediately. That's why in the beginning, she would try to communicate. And then when everybody would be worked up about it, she would just stop for a while and then try again on another day. Um, yeah. So if it's something bad, which, you know, that's the thing, um, just like in this world, there's good and bad. There's also on the other side and the spirit realm. There are, you know, there's good and bad. And, uh, there are places in the world that are haunted with, with portals, you know, like poltergeist activity, that kind of thing. And it's, they're bad. It's either evil spirits, demons, various things. So yeah, it's, it's not a good idea to just blindly. tap into the spirit realm, like people who would maybe use, I don't know, like Ouija board, something like that. My grandmother has indicated that those are dangerous. And it's not a good idea to just take a blind stab into the. Yeah, because like my grandmother contacted us. She stayed. It's her portal. She's guarding the portal. Like it's safe because she's, she's here. And it's her. But if you were to just try to tap into the spirit realm. Just, you know, take a blind stab into it. Who knows who might come through. And, you know, and it could be, it could be somebody not good. Interesting. So how does that work? Because, you know, the, the theology I was raised with is that heaven and hell are very separate and not anywhere near each other. So how is it that. Spirits come through the same kind of portal. Like, you know what I mean? Like, how is that? Yeah. So, well, I mean, according to my grandmother and the way and in my belief system, also heaven and hell are states of being. They're not places that we go to. And so the spirit realm in and of itself is neutral. It's very different. It's like, it's very stratified. There are alternate dimensions. Various levels. I mean, it's beyond my pay grade. I can't describe it to you because she can't even describe it to me. Right. But, but on the lower level, the bottom realm, which would be the astral realm. That realm is most or closest to the physical realm. So in that space, that's where everyone initially goes when they. When they cross. So whether a person's good or bad, you know, everyone goes passes through that astral realm. And then from there is what my grandmother calls the beyond. And in the beyond, it's just, it's, it's vast and it's very stratified and complex. But we carry with us whatever level of consciousness we have attained at the time of our crossing is what we carry with us when we die. So if we are in hell while we're here on earth, you know, we are fragmented, live in completely identified with the world of form, completely identified with ego. When we cross, we will, you know, take that with us. And if we fail to do our inner work, face our junk, however you'd like to say it, then we could remain in a situation where we're unhappy in darkness. Even things like that on the other side. So it's really all about the internal atmosphere, both here and on the other side. Hmm. That's really interesting. Have you have any conversations with her about how she saw things when she was here about her faith or any of that. Yeah, she did say that. Well, obviously, and that's the thing she stayed primarily to. I don't know, help family members because of her great love and devotion for her family is the reason why she stayed. There were things that she wanted, like I said earlier, that she wanted people to be healed of. She wanted to apologize for some things, but because I'm on a conscious spiritual journey everyone's on a spiritual journey man is conscious. So I took the opportunity to ask a lot of theological and philosophical questions. And so that is primarily the bulk of what I have talked with her about. There's nothing that we could tell her that she doesn't already know. So it's not as though we could at first when she first came through, we were, you know, telling her things about, you know, oh, so and so came over to visit today or did you see where someone so graduated high school or we thought we were filling her in on what was going on here on earth like she was missing like she, you know, like she was absent or whatever but no she already knew all of those things so comforting I think for people who lose people they love to know that they're still still there. Yeah, yeah I mean you know when the Bible talks about the great cloud of witnesses and that's that's what it is we have a team of light around us all the time and it's comprised of spirit gods. And also our loved ones, even our pets they remain with us. So yeah we we're, they're always with us they always want to communicate but they often can't, whether it be because there's no portal and they don't have the energy to affect the physical realm maybe or maybe because a person's harp posture is closed if you're close to it. If you're close to the idea of spirits being with you or are sending you signs then then that will limit how much they're able to affect your reality. Wow, actually feel like I've heard that before like if somebody has a very closed mind and you know doesn't believe in any of that that in the afterlife. It's not like you have to like take everything in all at once, you know what I mean like it's just one of those kind sort of transitions you know it's like God doesn't want to go here it is. And you know just little by little when you're ready you start to, that's what I've heard I don't know. I mean that's a perspective I've heard I don't know what is real I think a lot of people, especially when I was evangelical you know if it's if it's not in the Bible it's not real. And there even you know talks about in the Bible it talks about divinity and all the things that are evil like how do you, what do you say to people who come at you with scripture like that what would you, what would you say. Well, do you mean like specifically the prohibitions and the Old Testament like yeah holding spirits yeah yeah yeah. Well so that was just me that was just one of many of the prohibitions in the Old Testament, and it was for a particular people and a particular context. They were in this covenant with Yahweh. And we see a lot of things that were considered off limits eating shellfish wearing mixed fabrics planting mixed crops, working on the Sabbath and the list goes on. So what are people who are engaged in divination. So casting lots and consulting spirits through mediums was something that those people were you know readily engaged in, even the ether that the priest war was a divination tool. So, yeah. So if fear comes from where do you think that comes from in the translation over the years. Yeah so well, I mean I know you probably don't know the answer but what is your thoughts. The fear of communicating with spirits you mean. Yeah, yeah. Yeah well I think that the reason it was prohibited is because the people it was about the people letting go and trusting God instead of you know because we see we see the distinction you know in the scriptures. Basically, these people were using divination and mediums to try and gain an advantage in life to control or manipulate outcomes in battle, for instance. And rather than trusting God they were trusting they were attempting to predict the future or control outcomes manipulation. But you know that's what the prohibition was about. And there's a clear distinction between inquiring of spirits versus inquiring of God. There's one verse that makes that distinction explicit. So it was just about where they were placing their trust. And it seems strange to me really that when people use divination tools even today for that purpose like to predict the future or control outcomes, because the future is fluid. So it just simply cannot be predicted conclusively. We may gain some insight about likely outcomes based on current attitudes or behaviors things like that but the future is open and fluid. But because of this prohibition in scripture, there are many who would say that connecting to a loved one through a medium is of the devil. But those who get messages from loved ones who have crossed are not typically trying to gain advantages in insight or predict the future. They generally they're just deeply bereft and they're seeking validation that their loved one is okay, or maybe they want to say some things that they didn't get a chance to say before the person cross. So it's about having closure or a sense of peace around the loss of a loved one. And, you know, I would just say that it's entirely possible to communicate with spirits and still trust in God. We can live open and receptive to the flow of life without attempting to control outcomes and also communicate with those on the other side. And I, but I realize also that some Christians don't believe that it's even possible to communicate with spirits. They would say it's possible to communicate with demons right now to their spirits. And that's really weird to me considering that the whole faith is like centered around the Holy Spirit. So I'm like, there's this spirit in the middle, like the central to your faith and you don't believe in spirits. So, and I also wonder what they think the great cloud of witnesses is, you know, if not ancestors urging us on. And then we have Elijah and Moses, they manifested at the transfiguration and those are spirits of long deceased men. And, and then Saul spoke with his deceased prophet Samuel through a medium. So the existence of spirits really shouldn't be in question. But, yeah, I think that the fact that there is a prohibition at all is proof that the existence of spirits and the ability to communicate with them. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, why, why restrict something that's not even possible. This is not an area that I've spent a lot of time in deconstruction because it's never been like a thing for me. So I am like just fascinated by this. I think what you're doing. I remember what you're basically saying you're converging a couple of things. Like you've got the belief in God, the belief in the Holy Spirit, you've got your belief in some of the scriptures that you've sat like. And yet you also have this and that to me is kind of what I'm trying to do with this podcast is help people see that like, you can still have a faith and believe a little different than someone else and that's okay. Like, it's okay. Your experience it because you're not afraid to, you know, lean into that experience. I think if you are afraid of it, you probably wouldn't have an experience like this. But like, I think it's really powerful. And I think, I love that you've written a book about it. So do you want to tell me, well, you know what, let's take a break. And when we come back, I want to hear a little bit more about your book and, and, you know, what's going on with that. So we'll be right back guys. Welcome back to wondering the journey. I'm Leslie Nice. Thanks for hanging out with us today. I'm with Brandy Anderson. She is, she's been sharing just a really, really cool and different perspective and journey with us today. And it's just, I'm learning a lot. I hope you are too. Let's talk a little bit about your book, Brandy. It just, it sounds so interesting through the veil, a glimpse into the afterlife. So you are getting these glimpses from your grandmother who passed away. What kind of glimpses into the afterlife? Can you share with us? I mean, you've already shared some, but like, is there anything that sticks out in your mind? You're like, I know people would love to know this. Yeah. Well, so like I said before, you know, I spent a lot of time and I still ask a lot of existential type questions. I ask, you know, theological questions like things from, you know, based, biblically based questions philosophical questions. Quantum physics type questions. And so the book through the veil is what, what I had learned up to that point in writing that book about what happens when we die and how that should impact the way that we live life now. And so in the book, I just, I go over karma reincarnation, which that was not a part of my worldview until my grandmother began talking with us. No, these both from, is this like Hindu Buddhism, where did those two. Yes, I guess both, both have different, but I would say probably their belief systems are a little different and I'm not well versed in what exactly like I had never, I had never really dove deeply into that topic. Because I was raised in a Christian context, it just simply wasn't part of my worldview and I had heard accounts of children with past life memories. And it was really compelling, but I really didn't know what to do with it and I just sort of said it aside and I never, I never really thought about it much but after communicating with my grandmother. My question is reincarnation true, and she said yes, so from that point, I asked more questions and I also did some reading and research on my own. And yeah, I see now that it's a, it's a part of life that I mean it's almost so obvious that it's hard to miss once you see that I mean everything is cycle cycles of death and rebirth death and I mean all throughout all of nature. Humans, you know, plants, they die their seeds go down into the earth they spring back up I mean everything is cyclical like that. So yeah so that's one of the things that I cover in my book. And it's not really the Hindu I think the Hindus believe that you begin as like low, low forms of life like maybe you could be a plant and then you yeah then you could be an animal and then you're right. If you're a mother that's not true humans are always humans, animals are always animals. In fact if you know and they're always within their species so if it's a cat it's always a cat. You know, really. Yeah, that's so interesting. So the movie dogs life. Because that movie my husband like oh my gosh he was so mad at me for making him watch that. I was like are you kidding me never again. Yeah, but but such a cool concept and I've honestly I don't know how it ever would work where they would actually come back to you. But well, what do you think. Yeah so she has told me that it's supposed to be within the life cycle so like my dog Luke he crossed. I think it was 2018. Anyway, but she has told me that he will be with me in every life that we are connected we have a soul connection with one another he is my soul mate and that we will that I will have him in every life. She said he's with you now. Yeah she said he's still with me now like so he's always right beside me although I don't see him he's there. And she said he was. I said does he miss me and she said no he's with you she said but he misses food. So he misses eating yeah he sees you know he sees his favorite foods and he misses that but yeah so according to what she has told me he will he if I choose to reincarnate he will follow me. So I come back to me in this life so it's not like a dog's life where the journey is you know where they come back multiple yeah yeah. So wow. No does the I don't know do this is such an interesting topic I could talk about this all day. So tell me have you asked your grandmother do you get a say in who you come back at like if that's the thing. So according to my grandmother we choose if we reincarnate but we don't we don't choose particular circumstances or aspects of our reincarnation like we don't we don't necessarily choose our gender we don't choose where in the world So we will be yeah social status any of that. Yeah and she says that it's not scripted you know I hear a lot of people in spiritual circles talk about reincarnation having contracts and being scripted. Some people do have contracts but they're not scripted. It's not in the future fluid fluid yeah and we always have a choice and so things are open. Any agreements that we have contracts if you call them that. It's just really that we agree that we're going to do life together to try to and really the whole point is to wake up. That's the that's the point the purpose of life is to awaken. And so everything is spiritual practice like every everything is designed to awaken us and so we're just agreeing to come back and do this life again with people that maybe we got things wrong with and we do. You know we don't love people fully we don't embrace life fully we spend our time and our thoughts you know in the future or in the past instead of in the present moment which is all there ever is is the present moment. So yeah when we get to the other side and we see all the ways that we missed the mark we often want to come back and and try again you know to live more fully and to love more fully. Is there ever a point where you go. I think I've got it. Yeah so for those who awaken. Yeah for those who awaken here on this side when they cross they they wouldn't want to reincarnate I mean you know because they would would have already reached that level of awakening or enlightenment or or a situation or wholeness or peace peace that's a good way to say it. But for those who cross and they haven't finished their inner work. They can continue the inner work on the on the other side, but it's better. According to my grandmother it's better to do the inner work in the physical realm and that's also why a lot of people will choose to reincarnate if they still have a lot of inner work to do. I think it's because of the duality in this physical realm the dualities the tensions of opposites it makes the difficulties is the struggle that actually helps us to awaken. That makes so much sense though I mean when you look at a caterpillar for crying out loud. The struggle is what makes them beautiful you know so they can fly and be free. Oh my goodness Brandy I don't even know where to start I have so many questions. I love it I just think it's so cool and fun and different and you know you're I talk about this a lot and so I'm sorry if you're listening and you've heard me say this before but I don't know if Brandy's ever listened to the podcast I like to say that this podcast is like I'm on my journey. I'm going at my path right and every time I have a guest on they grab my hand they take me down their path and they show me things. And I take you know the wildflowers that they give me and I make a nice bouquet and then I get back on my path and so I take some things with me some things I don't but like I just this path is so unique and so different. It's just like opening my mind and and and my heart to just some different possibilities and one of the questions I guess I'm having and I'm I'm assuming if you're still listening like you're probably thinking this too. And if when you have you talked to her about maybe like the reincarnation does it happen like after everybody that was in your life before has passed. And then you come back or do you come back soon because like I'm wondering if your grandma is going to come back. Yeah. That's a good question. It's best to wait for your, your family or your soul group that would be a better way to say it because it may not even be blood relatives but the people in your soul group. That way you get to do life again with the same people in a different context maybe and you know a husband and wife like if you're a wife and you're married and have a husband and in the next cycle it could be reversed. One of you could be, you know the roles reversed the husband and the wife, the genders. So things like that can change although we don't choose those things. But it's best to wait to to do life again with the same people. But it is possible to come back before before our family but it's not that's not the way things should be. Right. And so when people do that, that's the thing with these kids that have past life memories that are so vivid and they're able to really articulate. And they've been able to like prove that their past life was indeed theirs like they were able to validate the facts. It's usually because they have reincarnated too soon they have come back too soon in a way that puts them outside of their family context. So they're in a strange family with with new people and their, their family are still here on this earth so like it's too soon. And the person's able to have all of these memories that they shouldn't be having and it complicates things. These children are often distressed greatly distressed because they missed their families. They remember their past lives and they want their like their mom, their dad, their their siblings. So yeah, so it's better to wait and yeah, and do it all again. And as far as my grandmother, she says she's not going to reincarnate. That's what she tells me. So she has, she's awakened, I guess. Well, yeah, she's doing her inner work, you know, I don't think she has fully arrived. I think, you know, it's one of those things where, but she is, she is. We're not, we don't arrive here. We have to like content. There's still work to do once we pass through here. Right. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people also something that she's told me is that there is a fire that everyone passes through after they cross not immediately but it's there. In fact, people who resist the fire would be really in a tormenting kind of situation. Like they would be resisting going through the fire and they remain kind of fragmented and so it leaves them in darkness is what she would say it leaves them and they wouldn't be. They would be, I guess they would be suffering from like, like we will in life really I mean that's what hell is to resist the present moment to resist what is. What is it? Jeff Foster. Yeah. Right. Jeff Foster says heaven is this moment and hell is the burning desire for this moment to be different. So when we resist what is we suffer. But anyway, this fire is a purifying fire. And so it burns away. Yeah. And it burns away everything that interferes with love. So all of those ego constructs, all of the persona, all of that posturing all of that is incinerated. And being stripped bare like that, then a person's left to do their inner work to kind of face all of these things in a way that allows a person to heal. So, yeah, and it's better to do the inner work on this side because we're not. I mean, we have things in our shadow that we're not aware of, you know, unconscious elements in our psyche and we're able to. It is the shadow. Sorry. I'm for people who may not know. Yeah, the shadow is just the part of our is the unconscious or the part of our psyche that we're unaware of its aspects of our personality that we have either repressed, resisted, or we're just completely unaware of. So it's what's hidden. It's not, it's not bad. It just is unknown. And when we, when we're unaware of those things when we don't face those things, we become fragmented. And that's another problem in the, in the church that I have found is, you know, the incentive is to press into the light, you know, to put on that persona to be the good person to have the outward appearance of someone who's holy and sanctified or whatever. But in reality, if we don't face our inner junk, if we don't face the darkness and integrate that, then we, then we suffer. And it keeps us from true transformation because real transformation is holding that tension of opposites being able to balance and reconcile it and not deny the darkness. So, yeah, so we, it's better to do the inner work on this side before we cross for the simple fact that it is a gradual unfolding we're able to tap into those shadow aspects gradually so that it's not too much at once, because if we, you know, if we want to face all of our junk at once, it might be too much. But when you cross, when you pass through that fire, everything at once. I mean, it's like, every, I mean, the full light of clarity and it can be extremely painful. And not just what you see about yourself, but you can see everyone with full clarity like your loved ones that you left behind people that you thought maybe loved you deeply, you can see into their heart and see that they, they really didn't. You know, I remember on, on one occasion, I said to my grandmother, I was like, it's so cool that you can like see into all these things because I'm asking all these nerdy questions, these philosophical questions and I am, I'm just eating up all the answers that she's able to give me. Sometimes she can't answer, but you know, and I was like, it's so amazing that you can see all these things I wish I could see like that and she said, but also painful. And I was like, Oh, yeah, and it's, and, you know, of course what she meant and went on to say is that when you can see what people really think about you, how they really feel about you, what their real motives are it can be. It can be really painful. That would be, I mean, I can tell you just being on the show survivor. I didn't know how people felt about me until I watched the show back and they would talk, you know, freely to the camera. It was painful and I thought to myself, man, I don't want to know this stuff. I'm glad life isn't like that. But, but I guess it does also kind of show you though, like, you know, I don't know. I think that's a really interesting insight into that, you know. Well, I, I'm so sorry about my dogs. They're delivering something I can tell. So I've been turning off my microphone, but no worries. I really want to say something, but if I do, they're going to hear my dog. Anyway, I mean, what an amazing conversation I could talk to you all day, but I wouldn't, I want to be respectful of your time and I also want to encourage people like if you want to hear more from brandy. And maybe some of the things that she and her grandmother have spoken about. You can absolutely get her book. It's available everywhere. Probably Amazon is the best place to go and make sure if you read it, you love it, leave her review so that, you know, her, her audience can grow. The book is called Through the Veil, a glimpse into the afterlife. It is her. It's kind of like a memoir. And it talks about the things that she's learned from her grandmother on the other side. A lot of the stuff we've just talked about. And I hope you've enjoyed this little trip down brandy's path is what I like to say. And, Brandy, I honor your journey. I thank you so much for sharing so much of your heart today. I know it's got to be hard to share this stuff because it's kind of like when people see a UFO or big, you know, it's like, people go, wait a minute, has she had a mental evaluation. But it's like, this is my, this is my journey. And like, I'm not here to judge anyone. I'm here to give people space to share their journey because I think it's important that we understand that not every journey looks the same, but we can learn from every single person on this planet. And it's part of the awakening as you were talking about Brandy. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Thank you for having me. And yeah, it has been difficult to share it. First, I didn't share with anyone except my close friends and family. But then in time, I was like, you know, this has been so profound. The things that I have learned have been so transformative that it would be remiss not to mention it, not to share it with others. I see it is everyone's on their own journey. And we all are on the same journey, but in different ways, you know, what could be a catalyst for one person, maybe different for someone else. And so I just share what, you know, what my journey is like, and for those who are open and receptive, then it may be helpful. And for those who are close, then it's just simply not for them. And that's okay. You're back on your path and that's fine. Like, you've lost nothing. You've just gained something. It's a perspective. And that is the beauty of where I'm at in my life right now, because my faith before the faith tradition I was in, we just, I mean, we just tune it out. You know, we don't want to open a door. We don't want to be, you know, it's crazy. But like I see, I've learned so much from people like you, people who are willing to share their journey and, you know, in spite of what people think in spite of what their experiences compared to this person's experience. But I'm curious, before I let you go, I have, I have a question I want to know, like, well, no two questions. Okay, first question. I'm going to ask them both and then you can answer them. Okay, first question is, what have you learned, like, what is the biggest thing you've learned from all of this, and how have you grown as a person. And then secondly, how do you feel about death now, as compared to before you started having these conversations? Yeah, so what I've learned overall is that death is just a doorway into an expansive journey of becoming whole. And so I'm sort of answering the second question first, but yeah, do I fear death? No, because ultimately death is an illusion. We don't actually die energy where everything is energy. Energy can't be destroyed only transformed. So, yeah, I don't fear death in and of itself. Although, I think it's natural to have some apprehension about crossing, because it is sort of, I mean, even though I talked to my grandmother and she's been able to tell me some things, it's still like it until you experience it for yourself. There's an unknown element. So, yeah, yeah, but, but I also see that all of life is designed to awaken us and transform us and bring us into wholeness. And so I have a lot more peace around what happens in the physical world. And you know, and even the journey now, like I don't feel, if you believe that you're only given a few short years to make a decision about Jesus or you're going to burn in hell eternally, then you live with a certain sense of fear and angst. I feel that you have said the right things and checked all the boxes. Surely like loved ones people that you care about. You feel like you have to evangelize or convert. Like time is ticking and so that has been lifted. So I'm able to meet people right where they are and love people or fully. I mean, it's just a more expansive view of reality I have more grace for myself and others as a result. I realize how very little control I have I mean control as an illusion. It's my favorite illusion, but it is an illusion. And so I'm able to let go of that. I mean, I feel more fully or more often, more, you know, more regularly. I mean, not that I don't ever drop into. I mean, it's, it's a process. But, right. Yeah. So yeah, I would say it just allows me to live with more grace for myself and others. Wow, that's beautiful. Well, I hope it can help all of us to do those things to live with more grace for other people and to just think bigger. I think sometimes our thoughts are just so limited and they hit the ceiling. You know, and then we don't realize the ceiling can open. And then you can like actually expand those thoughts a little bit, but sometimes our fear keeps those ceilings closed and nothing I can do to change somebody you can't take some place. You know, somebody someplace they're not ready to go. But, you know, just giving people an opportunity to hear another journey and another perspective. Oh, I can't believe I get to do this. This is just the coolest job ever. Yeah, I love what you're doing and I appreciate what you're doing. It gives many people a chance to, like you said, hear from from everyone, what, you know, what their particular journey is like and to see that there is not one particular formula. One way that we awaken everybody is on their own unique journey and like what has happened to me, the paranormal aspect. I mean, I get it. The people who are, you know, open or not open to it people who are close to it. I get that because I was once in that space where I would have been like absolutely no. And when it did happen to me, I wasn't seeking it out. So I've never been one to try to tap into that or contact the other side or anything like that. So for me, it's because it is something that happened to me that I wasn't seeking out. I just consider it a tremendous gift. Oh, yeah. For sure. Well, you're definitely a gift, Brandy. Thank you so much for joining me today. And I honor your journey and appreciate you. And hey, go get her book through the veil, a glimpse into the afterlife by Brandy Anderson. Thanks, Brandy. Thank you. [MUSIC PLAYING] [BLANK_AUDIO]
