I think there's a lot of advantage in sort of helping people to understand that, you know, difficulty and dysfunction, even if it seems kind of small to other people, if it has a big effect on you, it has a big effect on you, and you know, that's what's important. You should never go around comparing your pain to other people. That's just ridiculous. This is the Knocking Doors Down podcast. I'm your host, Jason The Chance. In here, we unlock stories of resilience, triumph and transformation. Hey, please hit that subscribe button on whatever platform you're on. And while you're at it, why not leave a rating, a review. And my guest is Duncan Basker in Brown, the author of Real Men Quit, the armchair macho guide to beating booze. Duncan and I have an awesome conversation. We start off with three things he's grateful for. What did Duncan's alcoholism look like? We also talk, don't confuse seeking validation for success. What was Duncan's childhood like? The importance of not comparing your pain and traumas to others. Also, what was that moment when Duncan decided life had to change? We discussed, do we have a big misconception about alcohol abuse, which includes alcohol? There's nothing healthy about it. And I asked Duncan, is it harder for men to admit they have a drinking problem from his experience of working with people early in their recovery? Plus some fun random questions, and Duncan leaves us with the final thoughts. Duncan Basker and Brown, thank you for joining me on Knocking Doors Down. It's my pleasure. I'm looking forward to chatting and possibly even kicking in the door. Absolutely. What we have, we've both got some recovery time under our belts. That's what it's about, those life changes. I start my day with a gratitude practice, Duncan. I like to start my conversations that way. Three things you're grateful for. Do you know what I do this like every day at dinner? Because I've had a bit of a busy one, I haven't had, we didn't have dinner together as a family, so I haven't done it. So these are like not scripted or prepared like they normally would be. But so I had a meeting with my mentor today, which is always, always very interesting and very thought-provoking. So I'm always grateful that, you know, he's an enormously successful guy and he's sober. And he shares his time with me very, very generously. All I have to do is buy him lunch. You know, I'm amazingly grateful for that. Things did get a little bit crazy, busy, uncertain. So I actually ended up spending a bit more time with my daughter this evening than I was expecting to. And that is always, you know, always good. She's just, it's just amazing. So hugging her is usually fairly high up on my, on my gratitude list. And yeah, I recorded a podcast earlier, which was actually my 100th podcast. So this is this is a 101, which is still quite a good number. It's a good, hey, you are in like the top 10% of podcasts that the vast majority don't get past 35 episodes. So you're kicking in. Yeah, these are my episodes. These are all parents. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Okay. That's still pretty big for sure. Yeah. Well, you know, I like to not do things by half. So if I'm going to do something, get obsessed with it, do it, you know, three times a day. Yeah, no half measures, right? We did a lot of half measure living. Well, yeah, you know, Joe, like, yeah, full measure, half measure. Yeah, that's true. I guess we didn't give it our all to be a really good at add diction. So, Oh, man, I was burning at it. I had the platinum card and everything. All right. Did you struggle? I mean, I've, I've not everybody says it, but I know I did. I didn't know who the Fi was without being the fun guy that was going out and, you know, closing down the bar every time I was out. What I did when I was drinking was live somebody else's life, you know, on the, on the outside, it all looked pretty rosy, you know, I was very successful. But was that my success? Was that what I really wanted? Or was I just doing what, you know, I'd been told to do and therefore, kind of constituted the path of least resistance. So it was success that didn't really get in the way of my drinking. You know, if, if I did it all again sober, I, you know, what I would have done would have been very different because I would have figured out who I was a lot sooner and therefore would have figured out, you know, where my strengths lie and what I really should be doing with my time. Yeah, that, you know, that's interesting. You say that as I had, in the depths of my addiction, I was, you know, thriving in a broadcast radio career. And I never thought of it that way until you said it right now was the job perfectly stayed out of the way of my drinking. As a matter of fact, when I started in the industry, I wasn't a, I wasn't a drinker, like rare occasions. And it was heavily encouraged. And then you start drinking with rock stars and, well, eventually it's going to go off the rails. Yeah, I mean, that's, it's kind of funny because well, conversation I have quite a lot is I work in media, like, no, so I work in industry in certain name here. Therefore, there's a lot of drinking in it. So I've yet to, you know, really come across anybody who doesn't, you know, there's an industry where they don't drink an awful lot. But the media is one that I get a lot. And I think it's, it's particularly infectious, isn't it? There's, there's a lot, if you've got any kind of like disruption in terms of time and working outside of the normal working day, that is always, always very bad for things like drinking and diet, isn't it? But then of course, there's this massive myth that, you know, to be creative, you've got a drink like Hemingway. And yeah, and I bought into that, I absolutely bought into that. And I think a lot of people in the media do. And then it kind of builds down, doesn't it? Because the people at the top, they're drinking kind of heavily. And then if you want to actually spend time with the people at the top, if you want to network with them, then you've got to drink. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, you absolutely right. And I know that that was a lot of that. You know, oh, I'm just, I'm just networking, I'm making connections or, or this is good for the radio station that I got this picture with the insert rock star here or what? At the end of the day, it's all just bullshit. It really is. It's like, what, what a lie I was living. Because mine, I definitely, I think I had the double lie in the sense that, you know, having that incredibly fragile individual that was so unhealed, didn't have coping mechanisms, it was a good way to say, look how successful I am. I just took a picture with, again, insert big rock star here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I, that, that actually deals with a lot of my experience, you know, a lot of the stuff that I did, like, successful, but what, what was I really trying to do? I was really trying to, you know, validate myself and say, look, you know, I am, I am capable. I am one of the big boys. And what is that? That just goes back to the fact that all of my teachers thought I was an idiot. And, you know, I just, when I was growing up, I didn't, I didn't feel like there were many places where I could be successful. So, naturally, you know, when I got older, it was very kind of like relentless pursuit of success, not because that was what I wanted, or that it was in any way meaningful to me. It was just, I had to have it just to kind of silence those demons. But hey, what a big surprise. I've never really silenced them. You mentioned that your teachers kind of, I can't remember the words you just do, but maybe treating you like some kind of idiot. Did you have, I'm dyslexic. And I didn't know it till would be American ninth grade. I guess that's freshman year or just before freshman year or high school or whatever it is. And so I just thought I, you know, yeah, not understanding my brain works a little bit different. Matter of fact, I can retain a lot of information. I just thought it was pretty stupid. Yeah. So, funnily enough, yes, I am dyslexic. And honestly, I don't really talk about it that much, not for any kind of reason. I don't want to talk about it. Just it had a huge effect on me when I was growing up. But I didn't want to say I'm over it. I still have to do that. Yeah, sorry if you're listening. I just put up both my hands to figure out which way is left and right. And you know, I still do things. The coping mechanisms I learned when I was when I was younger. But it doesn't feel like an enormously huge part of my life. But when I was growing up, it absolutely was. So I did, you know, quite spectacularly badly at school. My handwriting was awful. My spelling was atrocious. The grammar wasn't much better. But curiously, I quite liked writing. Weird, eh? And, you know, my parents complained to the school. The school's not treating you right. They're not giving you what you need. So the school got some education psychologist to come and chat to me. And I thought she was a really nice lady that just wanted to talk to me about my my cuddly teddy bear. But it turns out she was an evil witch. And she said that I wasn't doing badly for a boy with an IQ of 87, which is like, not that high. Like really frighteningly can't I? She laces low kind of. So my my my folks were not that keen on this as an as an idea. So they paid to take me off to, you know, some Institute in London. And I met this nice guy. And my abiding memory of it was him trying to make me catch a ball with my left hand. And I'm just like, well, this guy's an idiot. It's me. But actually, it turns out, no, he was the good guy. And, you know, he said my IQ was a little bit higher than 87. And I was dyslexic. And I went, Oh, great. That explains everything. That makes such a difference. This is going to be great. We're going to go back into school. We're going to explain to the teachers. This is why I'm like this. And they're all going to go, Oh, now we understand Duncan. And everything will be perfect. And what happened? They were just went, no, that's made up. Yeah. And continued to bring me exactly the same way. So, yeah. So it sounds like mom and dad were pretty supportive, though. I mean, was home life pretty good? I kind of shared my story growing up in a home of addiction. And I mean, I like by all measures, I probably shouldn't have ever had any problems really, should I? You know, my life was was not perfect. I did struggle a lot at school. I found it, you know, really hard. And I think the primary lesson that I learned was if I cried really hard, I'd get bad marks. And if I didn't try at all, I'd get bad marks. And that is not a good lesson to teach a child, because then they just don't bother trying anymore. So yeah, I totally switched off with school. I found it difficult to, you know, find a place to be myself and to be successful and be to be accepted. And my parents, you know, I mean, all families have got a little bit of dysfunction in them, haven't they? But, you know, I don't, I wouldn't score a single point on the adverse experiences of childhood tests, you know, I don't have that kind of like classic, traumatic childhood. And some people will occasionally say to me, Oh, yeah, but everybody drinks because of unprocessed trauma. And I'm like, well, no, that's not my experience. And stop telling me what my experience is. That's kind of an annoying white guy thing to say. So don't do that. Anyway, so I wouldn't describe myself as having a traumatic childhood in any way. I mean, it was difficult, you know, it was dysfunctional in some ways, but it wasn't classically traumatic. Yeah, I think that I think when people think of trauma, they always, you know, we've, we've discussed the big T, little T, there's, you know, and I used to kind of buy into it. And it's like, yeah, you know what though, that rejection of the girl I had the crush on hurts a lot more than something that happened that was really should seem far more significant, you know, and it's so it's, it's like, we're all going to be inundated with things that could be traumatic simply because of our recollection of the occurrence, I guess, you know, so it's, I think people kind of when they think trauma, it's always got to be just this big gnarly story in it. I don't think it works that way. Not in all cases. I think there's a lot of advantage in sort of helping people to understand that, you know, difficulty and dysfunction, even if it seems kind of small to other people, if it has a big effect on you, it has a big effect on you. And you know, that's what's important. You should never go around comparing your pain to other people. That's just ridiculous. But I'm a big kind of fan of using words the way like people use them. And I think most people define trauma as being those big things. So for me, that's what the word means. And if you want to use it in a different context, then you're not using that word, you know, you're then kind of twisting its meaning. And I think there is a little bit of that. And it comes from a good place, doesn't it? Because it's helping people to understand that, you know, those things that they think of as being quite small, they had a big impact. And therefore you have the right to feel sad about it. And you know, you should actively seek to work through it. I just, you know, I always strive to use words the way people use them. And I'm gonna say in this day and age, thank you for that. Because we call a lot of people. But I won't go off on that. Have you dug into the archives that pass knock indoors down podcast episodes? The knock indoors down podcast archive is available to you for free. Check it out. Here's a snippet from when Charlie Sheen was on the podcast. AA is not the best place for a famous atheist. I kept looking for that in chapter. So yeah, but it's not on one size fits all, you know. It's like saying that we all think the same. Like our brains are built the same. They're just not. There's such uniqueness involved. Check out this episode and so many more in the knock indoors down archive. And while you're at it, hit that subscribe button, give this video a thumb up, leave a comment, and share with somebody else that you know will get value out of the knock indoors down podcast. You know, I think our mutual friend RJ put it really well where he helped me kind of rethink it as, you know, we've got all these things that happen in our lives. And obviously we remember them because they, they're part of the development of our personality really is like, think of them as data points. And it was like, oh, that's a really intelligent way to look at that. I can see how occurrence X framed a way of thinking for me that maybe at one point served me well or, you know, kept me alive. And now no longer does and prevents me from thriving. So I thought that was a really interesting way because I've had conversations with people where, or when I go speak at some high schools and students will say, wow, you shared these things that are pretty gnarly, but it doesn't seem to bother you. I'm like, yeah, it doesn't sit in my body anymore. I've processed it. I've looked at it healthy. I've also seen how it's becoming an incredible asset that's put me here in front of you today. I think that's a pretty good way to look at it too, like data points. I liked that. Yeah, yeah. I think we should just gain another plug for RJ's minimum general all-round guy and great guy and, you know, sober guru. And can I promote his podcast? Sure. Yes. Yeah, we're not in competition, are we? So the untapped kegs are great podcasts. Yeah, great podcast. Great guy. And yeah, you know, I think one of the things that like we need to realize was like we're not total idiots. You know, we did start behaving in a way for a reason. It wasn't a particularly good reason and it probably didn't serve the function that we thought it did at the time, but it is understandable why we behaved in that way because we thought we were going to get something from it. It wasn't just like, "Oh, I don't know what to do today. Maybe I'll just develop a problem with alcohol." Well, your career guidance counselor sat you down and went, "You know what'd be great for you, heroin." Heroin, that's right. Here's some blow. Oh, do I get that opportunity? It's not this off of a stripper. But it's such a point. I mean, humans, I mean, avoid pain, find pleasure, right? And it's, I think I'll speak just for myself, of course, that I was taking the path of the least resistance. I always enjoyed being physical. I competed in sports. I loved that feeling in euphoria at the end of a long basketball game or a mountain bike ride or lifting weights, whatever it was. But it was so much easier to just go sit my butt down on a bar stool. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know, that's exactly it, isn't it? What can I do that gives me the most pleasure or removes the most pain with the least possible effort? It's like, and it makes sense that we're like that, you know? I mean, from an evolutionary point of view, it's quite a good idea that we don't run towards pain and try to unnecessarily expend energy. But the thing is, we live in a drastically different world. I will live in a different world to the one we grew up in, you know? I mean, things have changed so much. And actually, even alcohol has changed. It's not the way it used to be. It's got stronger over the years. There's because, you know, beer has been taxed for a long time. You can actually look at the statistics of the strength of beer going back, you know, 150 to 100 years. And it's just this straight line upwards, isn't it? You know, it's just stronger and stronger and stronger. And when people were drinking it an awful lot, because, well, you get cholera if you drink the water, you know, it was very weak. It was like 2%. It's like hardly got any alcohol in it, but it just gets stronger and stronger and stronger. Wine's got stronger in the last 20 years, you know? And what do they do with spirits? Yeah, you mix it with increasingly bluer and more sugary concoctions, don't they? And, you know, that just makes it even more potent. So we take a fairly strong stimulus and we just make it stronger and stronger and stronger. And at least when drug dealers do that, they have the excuse that they've got to illegally import it into the country. So it actually makes sense to concentrate it. But alcohol's legal. The only reason why you're making it stronger and stronger and stronger is so that you can trap more people. Yeah, exactly. I mean, goodness, yeah, and you would just bring up. Yeah, I've worked for a nonprofit and maybe we'll have to do a conversation there too, we'll call parents and addicts and I mean need and I mean just with the fentanyl crisis and everything's gotten the weeds gotten stronger, you know? Yeah, we spoke with a lady that lost her son. He had a psychotic break at 16 because of the THC content of the marijuana that he was smoking. And then constantly was in states of psychosis and everything else and then eventually got into the harder stuff to kill them. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, that's coupled with the problem that, you know, kids are now kind of undernourished. So their brains don't develop as quickly as they used to. But because they weigh more, they end up hitting puberty earlier. So the brain development, you know, takes longer, but the physical development starts younger. So they started on all of these things younger, yet their brain is less able to handle it. And then you take a rapidly developing brain and pour a load of psychoactive substances into it. And voila, congratulations, you have created a lunatic. Yeah, yeah. And it's, it's not, it's not talked about enough. Anyways, I want to get back on you here. I'm, I'm, I'm kind of, I'm fascinated with, you know, where, where was the point? What did life look like when you just knew that you had to change? So I, as I say, you know, I was kind of like ticking along quite successfully, had, had some, had some success, had a house, met this nice girl, you know, and I mean, she was a bit weird and everything, she had chickpeas and she didn't smoke and drink. But you know, she seemed nice enough. And we got married and we're like, well, you know, we are total adults now. Let's do the most adult-y kind of thing you can. So we decided to start a family. And that was fun. I mean, the trying bit was fun, wasn't it? And we did that, you know, just like picture the most naive, stupid, optimistic parent, you know, absolutely, that was us. And it was all going swimmingly until we walked into, you know, one of these screening rooms and then the nurse said that, you know, my wife had just had a miscarriage. And it kind of got bad quite quickly. I mean, obviously, the effect on her was massive, you know, the effect on her mental and physical and emotional life was just huge. But I know for a fact, what made it worse was I just, I wasn't there for her. My default reaction to stress, to difficult emotions, to hard times, just pull myself into a bottle, wasn't it? So I mean, yeah, I was there physically, but I wasn't exactly present. So I kind of just ignored her and that made everything, you know, a thousand times worse. And I'd love to say, you know, it got to this point where at 4am, I was staring in the mirror, but not quite. I think for a couple of months, I sort of wrestled with this idea of what do I want from my life? You know, who do I want to be? What am I here for? What is the purpose of Duncan? And you know, I wish I actually was standing in front of the mirror able to vocalise it so simply, but looking back on it now, I know I was basically asking myself one single question, which is what do you want? Do you want another drink? Or do you want a family? And I made the right decision and nine months, almost to the day after I stopped drinking, our daughter was born. And that was amazing for about 10 minutes. And then I was landed in a whole other world of problems, but you know, they're good problems. Yes, sir. Well, it's like they say, you know, a sick man has one problem, a healthy man has a thousand, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I'll take, like, I like my problems now. They're frustrating at times. Like the other day, I'm coming home from the nonprofit I work at and I'm stuck in the middle lane and this lifted pickup trucks in front of me and it rolls over the Big Rig tire carcass. And not me, I've got a car that's lower to the ground, rips out the underneath in the front and everything else. And it's, and I pouted for probably a couple hours and I went, you know what, it could have been a bad accident. Somebody could have been hurt. I could have been hurt. Total property damage. This is stuff I could fix and I've been wanting to do stuff to my car anyways to tinker around. So, you know, it's, it really is that sign of how we can through the work. And I didn't believe it possible when I was a newcomer, but latching on to people that had what I want. And I don't mean that nefariously, but just to, you know, mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually, to see that change in myself at times like, wow, that is fricking awesome. It does happen. Like, it works. Yeah, I mean, to to miss quote a jazz man whose name I can't remember, you know, a life without problems is a life without life, isn't it? Like, and I think that's one of the, the misconceptions of the drunken mindset, isn't it? That that somehow, if you just drink enough, you can get rid of all of your problems. But like, you would take that to your lot to its logical conclusion. How would you get rid of all of your problems? I mean, every job I have ever had has been a string of unrelated problems. You know, so yeah, I will quit a job. All right, every house I have ever lived in has been a string of problems, usually with the plumbing. So we're going to live in a cave, but, you know, like my wife, like, I love her and everything, which does cause me a lot of problems. Same with my daughter. So I'm going to go and live in this cave on my own without a job. And then I'll live this problem free life, except how would you get Netflix in a cave? Not going to happen, is it? You know, life is full of problems. You get the choice about how you react to them, but you don't get the choices to whether you have them or not. Yeah. And yes, yes, yes. And I think that's one of the things when I say like, I'm a grateful alcoholic, and I'm speaking to people that aren't, they're like, what the hell are you talking about? Because it took all of that for me to be able to understand that it is a choice, and it is my attitude, and it is my perspective. Well, yeah, no, I totally and utterly agree with you. You know, and I meet a lot of people, they sort of regret, often they regret, they didn't do it sooner, they regret what they did, they regret the time wasted. And I'm like, look, I totally get where you're coming from. I absolutely get where you're coming from. But I think the way you've got to see it is, you know, life is a cliche. I mean, life is a journey. And, you know, to get where you are now, you had to go everywhere that you've been before. And, you know, you might have gone through a few dodgy neighbors, you might have gone through the rough parts down. Doesn't mean you enjoyed it, or you liked it, or you would necessarily do it again. But actually, to get to this point, this moment in time, the only way you could do that is by doing all of the stuff that you've done. So don't think of it as, you know, black marks on your soul, just think of it as signposts, pointing you to where you are now. And if you like where you are now, and I'm perfectly happy at the moment, I am very much enjoying this conversation. So, you know, I had to do all of that stuff to get here, didn't I? Otherwise, I'd be somebody else, you know, I'd, yeah, God, oh, I'd probably have a corporate job. I'd never, never really see me with it. Where you are now may not be where you came from. The choices you make today may spiral out of control, or spin you in the right direction. Discover a riveting, true story of how Carlos Vira nearly destroyed his life and lived to tell about it. Stand up, stand firm, believe, make it happen, and live through the madness. Knock indoors down along the way, and don't miss others telling their powerful stories on our podcast. Visit kddmediacompany.com. Yeah, you know, it's funny, I was, I was talking with someone earlier about one of those realizations I came to in my sobriety as well that I, I would be pretty damn miserable if I was the guy that had to show up at 830 every morning and my lunch was, you know, noon to one, and you show up in the suit and tire, the khakis and polo, and there's nothing creative about it. And you're not really conversing about things like us, these thoughts, these different ideas and concepts. It would, it would be a pretty damn miserable life. And that's another thing that I'm really grateful to come to in my sobriety. Yeah, yeah, I mean, so I have had jobs in my life and it's not that they were all completely terrible, but I don't think I was well suited to them because it's like, do this Duncan. Yeah, but that's a stupid idea. No, just do this Duncan. Oh, right. So you're going to make me do something stupid. And we're not, you're not even going to let me kind of like, tell you how stupid it is, and we're not even going to have a conversation about whether it's a good idea or not. You're just going to tell me to do it. Duncan, shut up and do it. I don't, but I can't help but think you're not using me to the best of my abilities. All right. There we go. I'm not, I'm not sure there are too many jobs out there that actually really would use the best of my abilities. But there we go. If you can, you can think of a sort of speaking, writing, roller skating job, then like, I'm all over it. I'm envisioning a really interesting Netflix series. Yeah, no, I'd love to, but unfortunately, I have savaged Netflix quite a bit in the research that I've done. So I think that bridge has been burned, although I've never slated Amazon Prime, so maybe it's like, all right. Well, when, you know, I loved it that it all, you had every reason to be discouraged as little Duncan to not write, but that it was in you to do so. Two books as of now, right? Real Men quit and get over indulgence. So technically, I've written more than that, but the other ones were about local government, and they're not very interesting. So let's gloss. Well, yeah, two books. Well, sidebar, actually, that would fascinate me, but okay. Yeah, and I mean, I think that's one of the, one of the real things about my drinking. So, I started writing when I was a kid. I had a newspaper. I used to run around my parents' church selling the Sunday rag, and, you know, I wrote a novel when I was 11. Thankfully, I can't find it. And then when I went to university, I got very into performing arts. So I wrote a few plays, started writing film scripts, and I wrote for the whole of my 20s, and, you know, my early 30s, and, and I never really did anything with it. You know, I never showed it to anybody. I never got it out there, never even really tried with it. I just wrote the stuff and, you know, showed it to the odd friend, but basically just left it in, you know, the desk drawer. And, you know, it's, in such contrast, once I got sober, I just went, oh my gosh, there's actually quite a lot of time in the day. They hadn't realized, you know, because if, like, I genuinely didn't think I spent a lot of time drinking, because I worked pretty hard. You know, I got out of bed in the morning, slightly reluctantly, pressing snooze too many times, but I got out of bed. I went to work. I did a full day's work. Well, no, I did, I was rubbish until lunchtime, but I did some work at work, and I was there physically for eight hours. And then I come home, had my dinner, and I was really involved in my local community. So I'd often be going to meetings, events, stuff like that. And I wouldn't be getting home till nine. So I wouldn't be drinking until nine, and then I'd, then I'd hit it. But I don't drink, you know, after nine o'clock. So I never thought that was a lot of time. But of course, if you work out nine till half 12 every day, three and a half hours, I'm seven, that's more than 24 hours. You know, so it's like I got an entire another day, including the bit where I was asleep. So yeah, it was like, well, all this time. So I wrote a book, and instead of just leaving it in the bottom drawer of my, my desk guy, I just went right. Well, I'll just self publish it because like it's so niche, but no publishing company would ever be even vaguely interested in publishing. But I published it. And I'd love to tell you, it became a best seller. It didn't. I've sold hardly any copies. But the thing is, it's so utterly niche that if you give it to the right people, they end up hiring you for coaching and training. So it kind of worked itself out. And that I guess was, you know, not just doing the things I love, but actually really committing to them and doing them properly. Yeah. And you're so right in that I think there's so many misconceptions for, I don't know about, about terms that are used there for non addicts, call normies here or, you know, things like that. The perception was I worked in broadcast radio for 20 years. And I think maybe one person out of the 20 in the building went, I didn't know you had a problem with drinking. Because their perception was all day every day. And mine tended to be after dinner was made, the kids were ready for bed. And there you go. I just masterfully could finish the 30 pack of beer in about four hours. You really did commit. I mean, that's, that's, you really work it out. And I think that's that is generally the problem that, you know, I tend to spend a lot of my time shouting about that, you know, we as a society have this huge misconception of what alcohol problems look like. So I think that most people think of it as like, there's alcoholics and there, you know, they don't have houses, they don't have families, they don't have driving licenses. And they, they are problem horrible alcoholic people. And then everybody else is having fun. Whereas actually there's really four discrete groups when it comes to alcohol. There's the people who either don't drink at all or drink very little, by which I mean what never more than wandering, rarely more than twice a week, and actually have weeks where they don't drink. So yeah, wandering twice a week, three weeks a month, that's the kind of lowest risk area. And I think if you want to drink alcohol, that's what you should aim at. And if you can't do that, time to stop. So that is a significant proportion of people. That's like 20, 22 percent, depends which country you're in. And then there's the people that drink, you know, a point that it is obviously causing them risk. They drink up to or above the what the government's recommendation. But of course that depends where you live, because if you live in America, you apparently, you know, it's safe to drink more alcohol than if you live in Sweden. So all these Swedish drinkers, they should move to America. But you know, there's this group of people that aren't drinking massive amounts, but they are drinking at a level that is having an effect on them. It's causing them some risks, but more specifically, it's causing them some effects. So it will be messing with their sleep, it will be messing with their memory, it will be messing with their mood levels. But they're not necessarily going to be like out and out problem drinkers. Then you've got the ones that are like, just drinking too much, but are still clinging on to the shreds of a sensible life, which is actually a lot of people. And then you've got your kind of like 4 percent of people who are like, totally and utterly staffed. And they're basically, you know, what most people think of as alcoholics. And we don't have this kind of like nuanced view of it as being, you know, not just alcoholic or all right, but actually, there are shades of it. And actually about 25% of people who drink are drinking at a problematic level. We're 25% of people, total are drinking at a problematic level. If you actually take out all of the people that never drink, it's 30% of drinkers, which I wish somebody had explained that to me. Basically, when you start drinking, there's approximately a one in three chance that you will develop a problem. Yeah, I had, that's one of you wish I had this this one kid young man, he goes, Hey, you haven't told us yet not to drink or do drugs. I said, that's not why I'm here. I'm here to talk to you about powering and disempowering decisions. Like, but I'm, but I will tell you, since you brought it up, you know, the easiest way to never have any issues with drugs or alcohol, don't do them. Yeah, I'm sort of tempted to say, well, they've told you not to do it. Would you listen? When I was your age, if you told me not to do it, I'd have done it. Yeah, we had the dare program that Nancy Reagan did here in the States. And the data, the history, the study that they did on it, it showed that there was an actual increase because it was so heavily, heavily publicized that teenagers going, Oh, well, my friends must be doing that. Well, then when you ask your friend that wants to be cool, they were lying about it, then eventually it wasn't a lie. Yeah, yeah. So if you look at the corporate social responsibility stuff that the alcohol industry puts out, there's some research in, in the UK about the stuff that comes from Drink Aware, which is basically an industry funded body. And is it like 96% of what they say has no scientific validation? It has no backing. So 96%, that's basically everything, isn't it? And at least 11% of it has been proven to increase drinking. So this is your corporate social responsibility or advertising as we like to call it. And I mean, the whole thing, it's like drink responsibly, it implies that you're going to drink. It's like, there's not a choice, you are going to drink, you drink responsibly. And then they tack it on the end of a Jack Daniel's advert that was basically like basically promoting your responsibility. And then it was like, really, they're not, they don't know anything, you know, they use her bang lines in their adverts. And it's like, dude, you don't know. I mean, yeah, he had a problem with other substances, but there was alcohol in his body when he shot himself. And they use pictures of Jimmy Hendrix. And like, there is a bit of controversy over what he died of, but he had barbiturates and alcohol in his system when he died. And alcohol and barbiturates act on the same part of your brains. Basically, all the same difference, isn't it? So you're, you know, you're celebrating your product by using people who it's destroyed and well ahead of their time. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's the 27 club. I think that was the age that they all went, something like that. Yeah, Jim Morrison, Amy Winehouse. So yeah, well, and it's, it's just funny that there's any data on, look, it's poison. There's a reason we say pick your poison. You want to know the perfect amount to drink? That would be none. You want the best health benefit? Just none. But, you know, I mean, that's never going to happen. It's just it. I don't know about there where you're, you're in Sweden? No, no, the UK. The UK? Okay. Oh, I thought you said I thought maybe you had relocated to Sweden, but I don't know. The Sweden just has the best advice on drinking alcohol. The government advice is don't do it. And then they consider medium risk, something like 47 grams a week, which is like three drinks or something like that, which is actually, I think, probably quite sensible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, probably. Yeah, I would say so. But I don't know about the adverts there. Well, you know, for us, I can't, I can't drive when I leave here to go pick up my youngest without passing four billboards where it's guys in, you know, with no shirt on and they're at the beach with the hot girl in the bikini. And it's this overall presented thing like you can enjoy life without it. And I believe that at one point. Yeah. So there's this thing called the illusory truth effect whereby, you know, under poetry conditions, psychologists can consistently make you believe stuff that isn't true simply by repeating it to you a lot, which is something I think certain politicians might have figured out as well. You know, I'm just saying, and it's like, well, yeah, advertising changes your beliefs. Just a fact. That's why they spend so much money on it. And so if you are taking your beliefs and your understanding about alcohol from advertising, it's no wonder you believe a whole lot of rubbish. And actually, alcohol, the alcohol industry spends an awful lot more on advertising than most industries do is advertised three times more than the average product. Why? Because how do you sell most products? You sell them on their features and benefits. What are the features and benefits of alcohol? It kills you. It ruins your life. And, you know, it's just terrible. So of course, they've got to advertise it. They've got to sell a lie. And, you know, I think obviously the tech is kind of loaded against us. But we do have this one advantage that when we say sobriety is great. And, you know, the girls really dig a sober guy. And if you take your top off, you don't have a beer belly. We're telling the truth. Well, sort of, you know, but when we say sober is better, we are telling the truth. When the alcohol industry is saying alcohol is better, they're lying. And that's why they have to spend a lot of money to make you believe those lies. We just need to spread the truth a little bit more. We just need to talk more about it. Yeah. And our way, and I say, or I would say recovery community, it's free. The other one, it'll cost you that for me, it was damn near my life. Matter of fact, at the end of my run, I wanted my life to be done. And, you know, I wish that was the first time I've heard that. It's not even the first time I've heard it today. And that's somebody asked me recently, like, why are you so passionate about this sort of stuff? And it's like, well, because I hear things like that all the time, you know, you can't, I don't think you can get to the point where you really understand the depth of human suffering is caused by alcohol, and then not do anything about it. I think that would make you quite a bad person. And, you know, ignoring my own experiences with it, just the experiences of the people that I've talked to, the people that I've helped, you know, I was kind of like, remember this one person in particular, and she was smart, you know, I mean smart, smart. So she had two advanced degrees, and the only reason why she didn't have a PhD was because she got headhunted off the course, you know, and like genuinely very, very, very intelligent person. But she got to the point where she'd lost her house, she'd lost her job, she'd lost her family, she'd lost everything. She'd even lost the ability to do basic personal hygiene. And when I was visiting her where she was staying, it stank, you know, and that is the kind of smell that you can't ever really get out of your nostrils. And now whenever I think about alcohol, you know, that's what I smell, you know, and I just think once you've, once you've smelled that, you can't go back. There's, I just I don't have a choice. I've got to do something about it. Yeah, that's same. I don't remember what my, my girlfriend and I were watching, but there's something in the, the characters incredibly hung over and I felt nauseous. Just like seeing it, like I can go back to those places and those times really quick. And it not only reminds me my suffering, but there are others that still are. And it's tough, it's tough. And it's hard when you offer that help and somebody just won't take it. Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, look, it can be heartbreaking. But it can also be amazing. I mean, that particular individual, I spoke to her this week. And so in the UK, it's very, very hard to get into rehab on the NHS. It's very easy to do it if you pay for it. But you know, the National Health Service doesn't have a lot of money and it doesn't spend a lot of it on rehab. So you have to be an absolute pace who get in there. And she did with after months and months and months. And you know, she, she got the treatment that she needed and she's been in a halfway house for the last few months. And now she's back in the rehab facility volunteering and she's got a sponsor and she's going to the meetings and you know, she's doing the work and she's just like optimistic about life. She was like telling me about her plans, she's seeing her daughter again. And it's like, it's like night and day. And you know, that I honestly don't think you need many of them to really kind of like, you know, make it all worthwhile. You know, I mean, she said to me, like, genuinely, I would have been dead if it wasn't for you Duncan. And it's like, yeah, you know, exaggerating. Like you were days from it, literally days from it. Yeah. What about when your work, because I mean, you wrote the book Real Men Quit and I think it's, you've probably worked far more than I have, obviously with folks. But it's harder with with men. There's that machismo and men don't ask for help and rub some dirt on it. And whatever BS you can stack on top of that. And yeah, no, you're totally, totally right. So, you know, we get it kind of from both angles, don't we? Because you've got a drink, if you want to be a real man, you know, that's what real men do, isn't it? You know, what better way to prove how tough you are than by pouring a load of poison down. So we get it from from that angle, we get, you know, told that drinking is actually a part of being a man. But then, of course, we also get the boys don't cry, man up, stop being a big girl's blouse. You get all of that. So when we get into a trouble, when we get into problems with the thing that you told us to do, we then aren't in a position to ask for help either. And I think it's massively a problem. And that's why with a few exceptions, you don't actually see a lot of men talking about recovery. You don't see a lot of them in the recovery space. And there are a lot of women doing a lot of really amazing work. And you know, I appreciate it now. You know, nine years sober, it resonates with me. And I understand it. But when I was drinking, I just don't think talking about Chardonnay and the school run is really going to kind of like, you know, it wasn't going to reach me. So I wanted to write something that was designed to kind of speak to men in their own language where they are at. And then, you know, actually sort of talk about the problems that men face because they are a little bit different. I mean, I know that is a generalization, but I think, you know, women have some pressures on them. And, you know, they have some reasons for drinking and men have some of the same pressures. But we have some different ones and we have some different reasons. And I think that as a group, you know, we need to we need to explore that a whole lot more. And yeah, I mean, the statistics are pretty bleak, aren't they? You were like two to three times more likely to develop a problem with alcohol for the simple reason that for every four drinks that gets sold worldwide, a man is drinking three of them. Yeah. You know, so we're doing more of the drinking. We're less inclined to ask for help. So hopefully, you know, we're kind of we could get ourselves onto Amazon. And even if you have had a few drinks, you can still spell real men and quit because those are quite short words. So, you know, hopefully, while you reading when you're drunk is always difficult, isn't it? But you hear the audio book. Yeah, exactly. You know, and it's I'm not sure statistics there, but here in the United States, you know, it's sad there's a suicide rate at all. But last time I looked, I believe it is around 65% if not higher was all male. And of course, now we're getting more of with the LBGTQ community. And it's it's sad because yeah, I I was a rub some dirt on it. Like there's no problems. And I mean, suicide, you know, it's not a uniquely male problem, but it more men kill themselves. And actually, one of the things that often doesn't get mentioned is that a considerable amount of suicides are related to alcohol. So not, well, I mean, it's not the mechanism that people use a lot of the time, but a lot of people that kill themselves have been drinking. So it's not helping, is it? And it's part of a deeper problem. And I think, you know, both of them, there's, you know, there's a reason why we're not talking about the problem with men drinking and the problem with men and suicide, because men don't sort of like stand up and actually talk about their problems. And you know, if you look at the women's movement over the last 120 years, you know, they've raised an awful lot of issues. And I'm not saying, you know, it's job done. Let's sit down. I mean, there are still a lot of issues to be dealt with. But by organizing, women have got a lot of issues onto the political landscape. And they've achieved an enormous amount. And what I've meant done in the last 120 years, like we've, we've made American football a bit better. The helmets are showing you. It's like our sports are more safe. I mean, I'm a big formula one guy. Well, motor sports in general. So that's a little bit safer. But you're right. And hopefully with with gentlemen such as yourself, with, you know, your writings and the work that you do. And and I am. And just in my personal sphere, of course, I am seeing more of it. I do very rarely will I do any sort of mixed recovery meetings or groups or anything that anymore. And I mean, there's a beautiful man that at the last one five days and broke it down in tears. And that's all he had to share. And it was like round of applause for you. But that's the courage that you have to have going forward. And guess what? If that's the toughest point for you in your recovery journey, oh, you're going to kick some serious ass from here forward, my man. Just a loop back to formula one. I mean, I think like Lewis Hamilton doesn't drink and not because, you know, you ever had a problem with it. But just because he's figured out that elite sporting performance is incompatible with alcohol. And so many sports people have figured that out. So I know Tom Brady is a bit of a wedgie issue, but he has won a lot of Super Bowls. And you can't argue with that, you know, didn't drink during his career. No, back Jockovic, the most for the most grand slams in tennis, doesn't drink, Floyd Mayweather, you know, 50 fights undefeated. If you like, if you like soccer, then you're gonna have Cristiano Ronaldo unquestionably the best looking person ever to play in sport ever. In fact, I was talking about this the other day with a friend of mine who's really, really keen on sports. And we were talking about Wayne Rooney. So Wayne Rooney, you might have heard of actually played in America for a little bit. So maybe you will. And he he's a bit younger than Cristiano Ronaldo. But they made their debut at about the same time in the UK. Ronaldo was playing in Portugal before that. So they started their kind of career similar sort of time. Ronaldo is still playing. Rooney's been retired for about eight years and he looks like an absolute state. And it's simply because he just drinks and he doesn't look after himself. And a huge part of that is around alcohol. And it just goes to show, you know, if you actually want to, you know, live that best life, if you want to reach the top of anything, then more and more people are figuring out that alcohol is not going to play any part in that. And basically, that was the reason why England will rubbish at so long time. Wayne Rooney's drinking. Well, and to mention, Lewis Hamilton is my favorite Formula One driver, probably favorite race car driver ever. And he launched a non-alcoholic tequila company. You know, he's like, I enjoyed the taste of it. But yeah, I don't want any other part of it. And and it's, I'm, I'm hopeful there's more of that. Because for instance, I'm having this, it's a Hoplark, a brand, they, they do this. It's essentially water. This one's a green tea, but with hops, non-alcoholic, of course. And so it's, it's like, oh, it's an adult beverage in that regard. So it's like, okay, it's kind of cool. I was out working on my car. I had one the other day, you know, it's nice to have that, that feeling, but none of the rest of it. Matter of fact, hops are actually good for you. This is actually good for your zero carbs, zero calories, zero sugar. It's like, you know, there, there are these alternatives out there. Plus I know any of my reactions, good, bad, indifferent, whatever it is, whatever my experiences, they are authentic. I experienced that as I was in a sober state of mind, body, spiritually, all of it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you've had a nail on the head with that kind of, it tastes adult, you know? Because like, honestly, who wants to drink hope for orange juice? It's like, no, you just, like, you want something else. And honestly, I'm not, you know, a huge consumer of any alcohol, free alcohol product, he kind of stuff. Primarily, because I watched too many perrier adverts when I was a kid. And I happen to think that sparkling water is very sophisticated. Yes. And I quite like it. So I just, that's generally what I drank, drink. And, you know, it's a good thing, because I stopped drinking nine years ago. And there was no good alcohol, free beer nine years ago was there. But it is, it is coming. And I think that, you know, that option to have something that makes you feel like you aren't at a kid's party. That tastes nice. You know, why would we not want that? And I think the quicker we can get restaurants and bars to sort of, you know, get more of a mix of drinks. So yeah, okay, you can still keep serving alcohol if you want, but just make it, I don't know, 50/50, like actually put the effort into non alcoholic drinks the way you put effort into alcoholic drinks. And then I think you'll see the landscape change and in a good way. And actually you'll get people coming and not drinking, because it turns it into a much more pleasant environment. And, you know, I don't want to be harsh, but that is probably the way your business is going to survive. Because if you are just about, you know, volume of poison, then there's no real reason why you should be in business at all. And that's something that I think the alcohol industry really needs to, you know, admit, because I'm sure they know that those 25% of drinkers who are the 25% of the population that are drinking at a dangerous level, they're consuming like 73% of the alcohol. So all of the profit, most of the sales go to people who are drinking at a dangerous problematic level. And if you don't do something about that, then your business is, you know, it's got no right to stay. Yeah, you, and yeah, I mean, I'm a little bit cynical about their attempts to create alcohol-free brands. But, you know, I think if we want restaurants and bars to exist as places where we can go to socialize, then we need to sort of like get quite serious about getting a better business model. And I think, proper, decent, alcohol-free drinks are definitely a part of it. Yeah, I mean, we don't go out and eat that much. I don't know about the rate of inflation for you folks over there is astronomical and eating out seem to be the biggest jump. But it's definitely sometimes part of the conversation, my partner, she's a normie. But like, I think we've been together over three years, and I think she's had one drink, and I wasn't even there. I was at a friend's house in that whole time. We've been together. It's just not her thing. Doesn't really enjoy it. But sometimes that's a consideration, you know, was, oh, remember that place? And, you know, we knew something that worked there, and they had an alcohol-free wine that was actually quite tasty, or whatever, and went with our charcuterie board, or whatever BS, you know, getting dressed up and going out. So I think it does raise that appeal. And I'm seeing more of the, you know, alcohol-free events at establishments where on certain nights there isn't any sort of period. So, you know, I'm hopeful, at least present the option of that lifestyle to people as well. You know, if they've been experimenting with chemicals, well, check out Life Without It. It's really cool. I'll tell you this, Duncan, in my sobriety, I've never woken up in a strange woman's apartment and said, "What did I do last night?" No, no, no. And, you know, it's such a common refrain, isn't it? I've never woken up and regretted not drinking. Yeah, there was a few other occasions when I was drinking, and I actually know, let's think about this logically. It's pretty much every day. Yes, sir. Well, before we jump into random questions, I ask you for the final thoughts. What's the easiest way to get a whole debut? Find the literature? So, like I say, you know, the easiest way to find real men quit is to go on Amazon and type in three quite short words. Real men and quit. That's four words, isn't it? Anyway, you know what I mean. But if you wanted to take a look at Get Over Indulgence, my first book, you know, I'd love to offer it as a gift to your listeners. So, if they put Get Over dot UK into the internet, that will take them to a bit of my website where you can download Kindle, the PDF, or the audio book. Well, I mean, if you can stand listening to me for 3045 minutes, you can download the audio book. Yeah, that's a total gift. So, just put Get Over dot UK into the internet, and that will take you there. And it is also a part of my website. So, you can find out more about what I do. And yeah, I'm pretty busy on the socials, LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook. So, you can find me on there. If you've got any questions, I'm, you know, I really, really love talking about this sort of stuff. So, if I can help, I absolutely would love to. Thank you for that, Good Sir. And I'll make sure to get, include all those links in the podcast description so people make it easy for you all to go ahead and click through and check it out. And I'm going to get the, I'm going to get the version of Get Over Indulgence. So, I'm going to check it out. I like your voice. So, I'm going with the audio book, if that's an option. But I drive a lot. So, I'm a big audio book guy. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't like some people call them traffic jams. I call them learning opportunities. Yeah, get a little bit more of that podcast or that audio book. It's all good. But no, whether you like my voice or not, I've got to apologize for the silly voices because some of them are quite bad. I'm sorry. All right, random questions here, Duncan. This is just for good fun. If a movie was made about your life, who would you want to play adult you? I do like Johnny Depp. I'm almost a bit kind of worried about saying that because I might be sort of pretending I look like him. And in my brain, I kind of think I don't know. But, yeah, I don't know. Maybe actually probably some gritty, up-and-coming actor would be better, wouldn't it? Yeah, I think so. You're going to get someone that could really step into the role, you know? Yeah, yeah. We have to lock him in a box for like a young Daniel Day Luke who's done completely and utterly crazy. I'm walking around doing my accent the whole time. We're nothing but this white shirt and this waistcoat. Well, on the cool thing, they can de-age people now pretty well, so you never know. Yeah, well, they're coming. When's the first AI movie coming out? Oh, I know. And as someone that went to film school like that, nothing pisses me off more. Like people, or do you watch this reality show or this or that? I'm like, no, because it's not real actors, writers, performers. I want to see a craft. Like, I am blown away by a craft. You give me something, a good scene, good play, TV show, whatever that's well written and the performers are on it. That to me, like, that's artistry. But, yeah, no, no, I totally agree with you. And, you know, quality never goes out of fashion, does it? Nope. Nope. People as, I used to work in a professional wrestling biz and a televised company, not WWE, not at that level, just California. And ratings were going down on one of the guys he actually had worked with a WWE at one point. He goes, well, people judge with their remote. And it's just the same way, because eventually people just get tired of the BS. But anyways, this is fun questions for you. Do you have an interest or a hobby that people might be surprised to learn about? Maybe you don't talk about or publicize? So 50% of that's true. So I'm a Morris dancer, which most people don't even know what it is. So it's a kind of traditional English folk dancing. It's, yeah, it's quite weird. So we wear white trousers, white shirt, lots of ribbons, lots of bells, hat with flowers in, and we wave hankies. And we dance to traditional English folk music. So that's a thing that might surprise people. But I do talk about it an awful lot, because I sort of like, I did it as a joke, right? Because like all my friends on LinkedIn, I've got a lot of friends who are like coaches and trainers and speakers and stuff like that. And a lot of them were put on their LinkedIn kind of thing. Speaker, author, facilitator, MC, training, retreat leader, all of this sort of stuff. And I was just like, this is so pretentious. So I just put speaker, author, Morris dancer, as a joke. And then everybody started asking me about Morris dancing and suddenly like 70% of the podcasts I'm on, I end up discussing Morris dancing. And actually, I realized it's such an important part of my story, because the thing about Morris dancing is a lot of it happens in pubs. And if it's not in a pub, it will be close to a pub. And there's a lot of drinking associated with it. And when I started, it was very much, I was motivated to hang around with people who didn't look at you funny if you started drinking at 10 in the morning. So it was very much about drinking when I started. And when I stopped, I didn't give it that much conscious thought. But I think there was a little bit of me was going, well, I'm not going to enjoy this. Is it going to be the same? And I went along and I enjoyed it. And it wasn't the same. Actually, it was better. And I kind of came to this conclusion that, oh, you know what? It was never about the beer. It was always about the guys that I danced with. It was always about the dancing. I actually like the movement, the expression, the music, you know, it's about the sense of community. It was about the tradition. It was about being rooted to the place that I live. It was about all of this stuff. But I thought it was about the beer. And you know, it's one of the biggest realizations that so much of what we do, because we do it with alcohol, we think the alcohol is adding something. But half the time it's taken away. Yep. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I had a similar experience. One of our early dates, my girlfriend and I was my friend was at our first one of our first. We went and saw a kiss. I'm in the kiss army, big kiss fan. And I said, or I didn't realize till we sat down, I went, whoa, this is the first time I'll have seen them since the very first time I saw them because I wasn't yet of legal age to drink. And I didn't, I was a late bloomer. I really didn't drink until I could by law. And I was nervous. And I had the best time. I was like, am I going to have fun? I was up. I was singing every song, you know, I'm doing, you know, all the pasta. I love you people. And, you know, it's great. Such a blast. And I remember it all. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, I've met a few people who were just like, I can't say how you don't and how kids are when you're sober. And it's like, it's a really good point. You spent a lot of money on those tickets. And you don't even remember it because you're so drunk. It's like, how about? All right, we'll do two more random questions. And I'll ask you for the final thoughts here. If you could have one superpower, what would it be? Something, no, that's just going to sound like I want a really loud voice. I was going to say something that would amplify my voice. But that's just like, shouty man. That's not what I mean. But something that would give me the ability to just get the message out there and to share, you know, and to help people to understand that, you know, a lot of what you've been told about alcohol, indeed, about the world itself is not necessarily true. And maybe if you reflect on it and think about it just for a little bit, you might change your actions and have a much better life. So yeah, a really loud voice. That's that's the first one. And it's brilliant. Best and worst advice you ever received, if you can recall. So the best advice that I ever received was your kids will ignore everything that you say and copy everything that you will do. That is the only piece of parenting advice I think that's actually worth listening to. And it's scary, true. And I guess that would dovetail nicely with the worst piece of advice I ever got, you know, if if if you drink with us, you'll learn to drink responsibly. The BS meter right down here to my right just broke. Yeah, because I mean, I love my parents and everything and I don't hold it against them. But they did think that giving me small amounts of alcohol at a very young age would teach me to drink responsibly. Well, it is nearly true. I mean, it taught me to drink. All right. Go ahead. I think that's that's one of the things I'd really love parents to be a lot more conscious about, you know, that that kids are going to copy you. So if you serve champagne to, you know, the parents at their birthday party, what they're really going to learn is no party is complete without alcohol. Yeah. And if it's a wake, you know, after a funeral service and everybody's breaking out the scotch, then hey, it's, I mean, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. So alcohol killed one of my friends in his in his HU 27. So he joined that particular club. You know, we went to the wake and we all just got incredibly drunk. And it's just like, yeah, that's so frighteningly inappropriate. But actually, it's so incredibly normal, because alcohol kills a lot of people worldwide. But more than that, it is a contributory factor in a lot of deaths. So like, they'll put down heart disease as the cause of death. And it's true. It was heart disease. But what caused the heart disease? You know, probably the alcohol, if not, it was the diet. And why were you eating all those kibabs and all of that fried chicken? That's probably the alcohol, isn't it? So it contributes to a huge amount of death in our society. And how do we, how do we honor that? Have a drink. Yeah. And I had a buddy here. I actually, I don't know if it's saved his life, but I forced him to throw up. He was trying to take his life with pills. And I don't even know what they were. So, but he was, went to a dealer, he had been drinking. And in his drunken state, decided it was good to just grab an extra bag and run. Well, he got stabbed to death. Alcohol in his system. And do you know what the mother of his kids, what it was? Hey, we're having this big party at the lake. We're all going to bring a bunch of booze. You should come. Really? You know what I do? I should come. And this is what you should represent to your kids. That I know that they're going to be there that just lost their father. This is what we're going to do. And the oldest is probably going to have to drive all your drunk asses home. Yeah, I'm afraid I'm going to have to skip out on this. Yeah. Yeah. That's me pissed off, Duncan. I'm quite aware that I'm just like, drop this huge downer right at the end. All right, let's lift it back up. We'll do one more random question that I'll ask you for final thoughts. What do you think your greatest achievement is? Oh, my daughter without a shadow of a doubt. That was easy. Yeah. I'm like, you know, virtually every day, she'll do something that just makes me laugh, makes me really, really happy. So the other day, she was walking to school with one of her little friends, and they were talking about putting something in a bag. And they said, well, what if the bag rips? Well, you'd have to use two bags. And one of them said to the other, oh, would that be a double bagger? And they just kept going on about double baggers. The whole way through. And I'm like, that was an expression I used to use in my 20s. Yeah. And not particularly good looking women that I'm kind of disappointed in myself for. But it's just like, it's hilarious. The stuff they do, fantastic. She's just so beautiful and loving. And she got a great she got a distinction on a ballet exam. I'm just so incredibly proud. So I don't think anything's ever going to get close to that. So don't bother giving me an OBE or an Oscar. I love it. Thanking us where I like to give the guests the final thought anything that you would want to lend words of encouragement, positivity, anyone or a loved one or someone that might be struggling. Yeah, look, you know, it's very, very simple. You are enough. You know, you are enough. You have everything inside you that you need to live a happy, fulfilling, meaningful life. You know, you don't need the alcohol. You don't need cigarettes. You don't need drugs. You don't need junk food. You don't need Facebook. You don't need an awful lot of stuff because you have everything inside you that you need because you are enough. Yes, sir. Duncan, this has been an absolute pleasure. We're going to have to find a way to do it again. Maybe we'll get RJ on at the same time and just have a discussion. Yeah, like they said, would that be like a battle royale? We could to make another one tag team. Yeah. Hey, thank you so much again, folks. Click the links in the podcast description, get connected with Duncan, get the book, get over it, get over indulgence for free. That link is in there. Get over dot UK. And on that note, remember no outside solutions to inside problems and keep knocking doors down.
