Keith, Brad and Ben are back together and are joined by Friend of the Podcast Matt to talk about Deadpool's flirtation with the MCU and the return of Robert Downey Jr. and the Russo Brothers.
The Movies & A Meal Podcast
Deadpool & Wolverine and Major MCU San Diego Comic Con Announcement
(upbeat music) - Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Movies of the Meal, a podcast where we talk about movies and other things while we eat. I'm your co-host, Ben. There's always a drone by Keith. - Hey, hey Brad, what's up? All right, this is the first time we've recorded probably in a month plus now. We're reunited and we're back for, you know, a special movie, I think one of the more anticipated movies that, of this year, for all of us, really, and that's Deadpool and Wolverine. And we can't talk about a major comic book movie without, um, printed the podcast, Matt. So Matt, say hello. Hey guys, welcome back, welcome back. Why don't we go ahead and have Brad do the summary. And then we're gonna go around Robin to give our just basic impressions and overviews. And because this movie, as we recorded, is already in week two, the cats out of the bag. And if you're gonna see the movie, you probably already see the movie, so. - Yeah. - All right, so Brad, what's this movie about? All right, some real, as always, Kursi IMDB. Wolverine is recovering from his injuries when he crosses past with the loudmouth Deadpool. All right, so Matt, leave us off. What do you think about Deadpool and Wolverine? - So I really liked it. It's kind of hard to talk about it. You know, we'll get into spoilers. It's hard to talk about it without spoiling or without cursing a lot, just because it is one of those types of movies. It's a really, really funny movie. It's a very violent movie. It is kind of hard to not to acknowledge the fact that it probably has the, probably the least amount of plot of any Marvel movie, maybe ever. So, you know, when you start thinking about it too much, it starts to, you know, you start to realize, wait a second, none of this makes any sense. But that's okay. I had an awesome time at the movies. I really enjoyed it. It was cool. I'm gonna say three and a half stars. - I'll go next. It was a fun movie. Ryan Reynolds has basically been teasing a crossover. He's wanted to team up with you, Jackman. Since the first Deadpool, really. And we got a lot of just like fun cameos, people that we haven't seen in a long time. Some ones that you really had to be steeped in the Marvel lore, not even just watching the movies, but also just like the behind the scenes projects that never, you know, actually came to fruition and what ifs as far as casting and whatnot. But I enjoyed it. Is it gonna be the movie that saved the MCU? I'm not sure. You know, we've been kind of in a malaise since Endgame. I don't think this is the one that is like, okay, we're back officially. I'm gonna give it a three. - You know, I'm sort of between you two, but you can't do a quarter. So I'll think about it for a second. You know, I really enjoyed it as a buddy movie. And, you know, the first, you know, it lost some of the novelty. The first Deadpool was like, just blow your mind. Great. I enjoyed number two. This one is on a par with number two, but you really have to, as Ben was telling me, before the movie started. And he's right. You really have to have scene number two. And I've kind of appreciated that. I like the way the two of them flow together, but have great action scenes. The two of them are fantastic. You're right. The plot is not, you know, when they made a joke about how you've entered the MCU at a low point, you know, it didn't really, this plot didn't do anything to revive it, but it's a lot of fun. I will give it three stars. - And going off of that, in fact, it actually probably became a little bit hypocritical because this made me kind of fell into the same trappings that the MCU has kind of fallen into at times. - I enjoyed it. If you're looking for violent, fun, vulgar-filled action comedy, this movie has it in spades. If you're looking for a connection to the MCU, you might want to look for another movie besides a couple of things here and there. It's still a good movie. Acting is great. Ryan Reynolds is great. Jacqueline's great. I even enjoyed Emma Korn saying that right now. The villain Cassandra Nova. I really enjoyed that. So, all in all, it was a good movie. The more I, like Matt said, the more I thought about it, the more it kind of kept dropping on my scale a little bit. So, as a comic book movie that's full of cameos and one shots and all that, I give it a full five. For its connection to the MCU and plot, I give it a one. So, we'll average that out and then give it a half star bump for the Brandon Wilkin MCU grade bump trademark in the top right it. So, I'm going to give it a three and a half out of five. - Oh, I'll pose this question to Brad and Matt. We talk about the thinnest of the plots. After all this, that timeline is not in the MCU timeline. Am I correct? They still went back to their original Fox timeline. - Right. - When it comes to like connections and plots and all that, this movie fell into the trappings of the same thing that you complained about the MCU. It's like, it's not connected to any of the MCU. - So, Matt, why don't you go ahead and go ahead and talk a little bit more about the movie. What you like, what you didn't like? - If it's okay with you guys, I'll just kind of follow along with the thread that we were talking about with the timelines and that'll give me a chance to get some of, kind of some of the not as fun kind of nerdy, complaining type stuff out of the way. And then we can just chat about, you know, our favorite cameos and all that kind of stuff. But this is an interesting movie. And on a meta level, you kind of appreciate some of what it's trying to tell with the story about the Fox universe dying and being subsumed into the Marvel universe. But literally just the stuff that they're talking about, like in the movie doesn't really make any sense even on its face, right? It's like they kind of started writing the script and then forgot about what they said, you know, like an hour previous in the movie and then just moved on to the next thing. It's like one draft. Case in point, the whole thing, and obviously if anybody's listening to this, you probably know this part here. I can't imagine listening to this without watching the movie. But if the anchor being of this universe, right, this supposed being that has to exist for the timeline to maintain is Wolverine from the movie Logan and he dies. And then that means that the whole universe is going to fall away. It seems like a bad idea for an anchor being to be a mortal person anyway. And I know Wolverine lasts longer than most people, but that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Also, the movie Logan takes place in the year 2029 and this movie takes place in the year 2024. So it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense why they're getting at Wade Wilson's Deadpool at this time instead of waiting until after the events of Logan actually would have taken place. So you've got this kind of like weird stuff where they're like, well, the movie came out. So we're talking about it in the past, even though it's established in the events of both Logan and in Deadpool these two different times that are happening. And so that's just a little bit of a bummer for me because I feel like you can have like something that is at least a little bit more cohesive for some of these inciting incidents to happen and still make it funny instead of just settling for, well, we think this is going to be the funniest or the most amusing thing. And then who really cares about the plot to it? So that kind of jumps out to me just a little bit with some of the really nit-picky stuff about what, how I wish this movie could have been just a little bit stronger. I feel like the movie was more focused on like just having like excellent jokes, one-liners, amazing kind of like singular moments. But then you just think about some of the, well, why are the characters actually acting like this? Why did Deadpool think that bringing in a replacement Wolverine would actually do anything to fix the universe that he was in? Why would the TVA contact wait about doing this in the first place since they're like a rogue version of that character motivation from Mr. Paradox, one of the kind of subsidiary villains there, minor villains, doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. We don't actually know exactly what happened with our Wolverine or titular Wolverine. There's just some kind of like big illusions about the humans doing something to his X-Men. And that's a little bit disappointing. There's just all this kind of like dumb little stuff that gets in the way for me the more that I think about it. And I don't know if that'll make it harder for me to go back and watch it a second time after I've had the chance to, you know, all the jokes will be a little less new, a little less surprising. And I don't know if that'll make a difference or not, but it just kind of has some stuff that stuck out to me. And I don't know, I was wondering if that kind of impacted you guys or, you know, if you think you're gonna watch the movie a second time or anything like that, just how some of that, what I call sloppiness might impact your perspective on it. Yeah, I think it will, there's another one that really got me right at the beginning of the movie. And it didn't really hit me as bad until I sat down and think about, I thought about it. And it was when, wait, Wilson's trying to join the Avengers. And it's like, well, he's not in the MCU. So how can he try to join the Avengers? And then you've got a happy Hogan, who's on the black and on the guy. - John Favreau. - John Favreau. And it's like, I would have liked it better if like somehow it was like connected to the Daredevil movie. Like maybe he's playing Fogging Nelson 'cause he was in the original Dev, Dev, Dev, if he was connected like Fogging Nelson, he's like being security or something. Now, don't make it like the Avengers. I mean, it was just supposed to be like sort of an in joke. But if you make it plot perspective, I mean, you could turn that around and make that make more sense. But yeah, there was a lot of plot deficiencies that definitely hurt it back. And seeing a movie a second time, yes, you're gonna lose the impact on the jokes and you're gonna focus more on the plot or the things. But so yeah, I will definitely watch it a second time 'cause that's kind of my thing. The plot stuff definitely will probably affect when I'm viewing this. The timeline doesn't bother me as much as you guys just because I'm not a casual viewer, but I am the most casual viewer of the four of us. What I will watch it again for is that even though they ripped nonstop on this one, I really loved the madness of it, especially when they were in the void. And some of these were very obvious, like the plan of the apes and the stuff like that. And of course, it's all a riff on Mad Max, but then to have the giant corpse of Ant-Man as Tommy Rovis Fortress, that was all just really fun. And even though Emma Corrin was fantastic, it was kind of a cookie cutter villain, but I really liked the way that they kind of cut, they kind of got into your head physically. It was really creepy to watch. I enjoyed that part. And I think that's why I believe when they were in the void, heading to Cassandra Nova's Fortress is my favorite stretch of the movie. But overall, that didn't bother me as much. I enjoyed the riffing. I will watch it again for that. I don't appreciate the way they've done Vanessa throughout these movies. She's in the movies less and less. And I don't mind that the first Deadpool was a love, even a lust story. They totally removed that from it, but just have her there to smile at him as the big moment of the movie kind of really did her wrong. And I didn't appreciate that. - I will watch it again, but it's really just for the vibes and the cameos. We haven't really talked about them, but they basically dip into most of the Fox. And, but it's not Fox, though. It's like streamlined cinemas like that. - Yeah, ladies and gentlemen. - But you know, it's like people that, well, we enjoy either their characters or just as people, you know, it was great. I, my biggest laugh in the movie theater was when Wesley Snipes walked out, you know, chatting to him, the joke of like, just like, we can't understand what he's saying. I mean, I enjoyed that. Daphne Keene and Jennifer Garner, a movie that no one really liked. I thought she was the best part of Daredevil. The lecture movie, "Love Said." - Yeah, it just shows she's a good sport. - My worst Marvel movie of all time. - Yeah. - And that probably won't change much. - So, you know, that was fun to see that, you know, Ryan Deadpool, Ryan Reynolds, you know, he zips through the timelines. We see different Wolverine variants. The Joe Pocalypse version, a patch. We see Henry Cavill. I thought the deeper cut, maybe the deepest cut would have been if like, instead of Henry Cavill, it was Duke Grey Scott, who was the original-- - Yeah. - It was from Wolverine back in the X-Men. I mean, maybe Duke Grey Scott didn't want to do it, but I also thought there were some wasted cameos. You know, Kelly Hoot came back as Lady Death Strike. - I didn't even really see her in that. - Yeah, yeah. You see bass player nails and then, I mean, like you've, there was a couple others like that. Sorry, I thought I wouldn't cut you off. - Yeah, I mean, you know, what's his name? The original saber tooth, what's his name? - The main, Tyler main, Taylor main, and-- - The main, you see, you know, the guy's toad, Ray Park and stuff and, you know, that was fun. I don't know, but that is, it's just strictly fun. It's strictly fluff. And you're gonna watch it for that. You're not gonna watch it 'cause you have like a real, any kind of emotional time to it. - You're not gonna come back and watch this movie after watching another MCU project, because there's not really no connection to them in there. About Emma Corrin, they did a great job. I think if they stuck to the comic book back story of Cassandra Nova, I think you would have made for a lot more of an interesting villain. It would put Professor X in a really bad light, but I think it would, I think it would, it would make her a more compelling villain. Instead, they stuck to the Cassandra as a psychopath who just wants to rule her corner of the void and doesn't do nothing until provoked. That's it. I think there could have been the makings of a more compelling villain that they just decided, nah. This is the original crew in general. They were limited in their appearances. And I think the way that kind of Vanessa broke up with Wade was a little head scratching and honestly, it was just there to do it. And I'm just like, yeah, I just don't feel right. So, and I mean, and yeah, they could have done a lot more with her. They could have done a lot more with the original cast maybe, but I mean, probably would have given the movie a little more emotional heft. You just don't have that. As far as the cameos, Chris Evans, if it wasn't for his penchant for mocking himself in cameos, I think his cameo as Johnny Storm and the way he was underpowered and the way he was brutally gotten rid of in the movie, I probably would have been a lot more upset with it. I was definitely upset at first when a guy who can go supernova couldn't out power a C-list villain from the X-Men franchise. When that happened, I literally, I didn't see Red. I saw a hue of Red, we'll say. And then I had to think for a second, I was like, oh, it's Chris Evans. So yeah, he's probably going to get brutal. He's going to get killed in a brutal form and it's just not going to be well. And yeah, he did. Love Channing Tam is gambit. Matt, I see you smiling at her. What are you thinking? - I just wanted to say that I totally agree with all your guys' additional points. And Ben in particular, I just think you've got, in my opinion, anyway, you've got the right attitude about it is that this is really, you know, my kind of wibbles are complaints out of the way. It was still a really, really enjoyable time, you know, it's a lot of these movies with the exception of like your Captain America, Winter Soldier, or something like that. They're not really very cohesive from a storytelling standpoint. They all have like really big potholes in them if you think about them too hard. So this isn't really that different from even like Avengers Endgame, which, you know, has the time heist thing that doesn't really make a lot of sense when you think about it, you know, for too hard how that would actually work or why they did it the way that they did it. And, you know, that's just comic book movies, I guess. You gotta kind of put up with that sometimes. That's all to say that I do definitely think it is, you know, it's got like the perfect kind of like just fun Friday night type of, you know, just chilling out, watching, not thinking too hard about anything, but wanting to have a good time with some friends and having a blast doing it. You know, they don't really make standard comedies anymore, right, for major movie theaters. So this is probably in some ways like the closest thing that somebody's gonna get to something. And these jokes are like coming like a mile a minute here during this movie. It was really hard to just kind of keep up with every single joke. Some people could make the case that it's like, well, it was actually hard to follow some of them 'cause Ben, you mentioned this before, you have to know a lot about what's going on with this industry and the subset of the industry in particular to be able to catch why it's so funny that Channing Taylor is playing Gambit. And, you know, one of my favorite lines, absolutely favorite, was just Blade saying, there's only one Blade and there's only ever gonna be one Blade, I was like, wow, that is extremely topical considering all the news that's come out about the new Mahershali Blade movie. And I'm like, that was one that I kind of caught in my breath. I was like, wow, I can't believe they went here with that one. I love that stuff. - That's awesome. - Yeah. - I thought that one and then one were Hugh Jack and they're like, oh, like Hugh Jack ain't gotta let himself go after the divorce. I'm like, wow, they're really going there. - Yeah. - Mike, Mike, they didn't hold back. And, you know, it kind of added to the action scenes when they come, you know, that of course, the big finale didn't disappoint. But I think my favorite because the two of them played out so the other so well was the Odyssey scene, if you want to call it that. The whole car fight, pretty much personified, for me, with the combination of action and comedy that makes this really work as best. - Yeah, I think they did that. Didn't, well, and I think I'll never look at, I want it that way ever the same again. - Bye, bye, bye. - Bye, bye, yeah, I'm sorry, wrong song, yeah. Bye, bye, bye. - Well, more band too, actually. - Yeah. (laughing) - I don't know if boy fans, so yeah. The fight scene was definitely good. The action pieces were pretty good too. I especially loved the way they had Cassandra Novos fighting style 'cause like you're used to like Charles Xavier, he's like wheelchair bound, he can't really do any action and yeah. So, but it was amazing to see her just like doing psychic powers just to stop like actions and doing all that stuff. It's a wonderful way of showing that. I think that was pretty revolutionary. - If we can just get back to the Honda Odyssey scene, we have to actually say for as much fluff and we're like, oh, this doesn't really have a lot of residents and everything. You know, Hugh Jackman still brought it acting wise and the scene in the mini band, after it's revealed basically like Ronald, that Deadpool is not 100% sure that he can make everything right in that Logan's universe and Logan kind of, that Wolverine kind of snaps and you know, he's basically just like your God's joke to us and all of a day like that. - I mean, personally, comic book movie, especially this one, he didn't mail it in at all and I appreciate that about Hugh Jackman. - Yeah, he's the heart of this movie, honestly. I mean, it's, I mean, underneath the vulgarity and the violence, I knew I had a beat thing there. Under the vulgarity and violence, he's just, he's just a pain, his pain performance is amazing. I mean, just you can, and I agree with on if it was Matt or Ben made the points. Like it would be nice to know what happened to the X-Men, but I mean, you could just see it in his eyes and just his actions and the pain in there. And he's amazing with it. And even Deadpool had his moments. It's just, unfortunately, I mean, Deadpool's gotta be comedic relief. So he's gotta be the, he's gotta be the joke guy, but it would be interesting to have a more serious Deadpool every now and then. - Anything else you wanna say? I mean, like I said, the movie and the plot, it's really just cameo stacking really is what we're doing. It's not like a-- - And that hurts the movie. It helps the movie a little bit, it hurts the movie too. I just, I wish there was more we could talk about more plot, more anything, but there's just, there's not. I mean, it's, if you get, when you get past the vulgarity, the violence and the, the visceral effects of the cameos, you're left with all filler, no substance. - Yeah, I mean, it's a little disappointed. You know, when we get to a third movie and the cast line gets kind of crowded and, you know, I mean, Vanessa didn't really get any play, but I also like people that we've grown to like in the last two movies like "Negasonic Teenage Warhead" and "The Hostiles". - Yeah, that's true. - And even, even a guy like "Shatter Star" who was in the Deadpool 2, only really is a joke to get killed, he's back, but he doesn't, he's just hanging out. - And what's, is it Peter? - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - Rob Delaney. - Yeah. - Rob Delaney basically has replaced TJ Miller's character as the best friend for some reasons we won't necessarily talk about. - And that's right. - For the better. - All right, well, I don't know if there's anything else we should say about that. Do some Rotten Tomatoes real quick? - Sure. - All right, why don't you, you wanna challenge Matt to guess first? - Yeah, critics and audience, Matt. - Let's see, I had, I made notes a couple of days ago so that I wouldn't accidentally see it. So I've got my notes over here. I've got 80% for critics and I was thinking 93 for audience. - I'm gonna go a little bit lower on the critics. I'm gonna go like 67% on the critics. So audience two, I mean, I think this is a good representation of like we are not kind of just like modestly giving seven stars to a MCU movie 'cause it's an MCU movie. So I'm gonna go like 77. So 67, 77. - Keith? - Oh, I'll suppose the difference. I think I have an idea where the critics are. I'll go 72 and fans, you know, everybody loves these guys. Let's just go 90. - Matt, you'd been winning the prices right on both of these. Critics, 79%, 301 reviews audience, 97%, 10,000 plus reviews. - So it's a fun movie. I mean, if you know, if you're just gonna go and enjoy yourself for two hours, see cameos, see the action laugh, we're holding it to a higher standard because we're deeper movie fans and MCU fans. But I mean, if you're just going out on a Friday night, not bad. Real quick, the credits consensus, courtesy of Rotten Tomatoes. Ryan Reynolds makes himself at home in the MCU with a serbic wit while Hugh Jackman provides adamantium backbone to proceedings in Deadpool Wolverine, excuse me. And a reverent romp with a surprising soft spot for a bygone era superhero movies. And speaking of that, would y'all think of the Mick Reddit scene with the sense amount, with the bringing the like the behind the scenes for the 20th century Fox movies and all that? - It's kind of a goodbye to those movies. - Yeah, that's fine. - I thought that was cool. So with the green day and all that, I think it was a good touch. - We were saying that we're not sure this is making, is bringing back to MCU as far as just like the quality of the movie and critically, but it made a lot of money. So Brad, that much money that this movie makes. - Without much surprise, Deadpool Wolverine wins the box office again this week. $97 million this week, two week total of $395 million domestically. A whole and strong number two is Twisters. 22 million this week, three week total of $194 million. Nude to the box office week track finished in third with $15 million in its opening week. Despicable with me for $11.2 million this week, five week total of $313.9 million. And inside out too, rounding out the top five, $6.7 million, eight week total of $626.8 million. - We're done talking about Deadpool, but we're not necessarily done talking about the MCU. So last weekend, I don't know, maybe only a couple days after Deadpool Wolverine debuted in theaters, we had San Diego Comic Con and that was the opportunity for Marvel to reveal, you know, they gave some test footage that's not been released to hype up Fantastic Four and Thunderbolts and some new stuff on Captain America Brave New World. But the biggest news and what we're gonna talk about is the reintroduction of both the Russo brothers who directed the last two Captain America movies, as well as the last two Avengers movies he's back. But the biggest news is that the anchor being, if we want to steal that from Deadpool of the MCU, at least the acting core, is Robert Downey Jr. He's back as Dr. Doom, probably one of the greatest Marvel villains of all time. - There's a little shocking, there's a little divisive, I think we all have some opinions about it, good or bad, Matt, what do you think about this? - I have to admit, I'm pretty mixed on it right now. It's definitely kind of changed. It's been about a week since it was announced as we're recording here. So I don't know, it could very well change for me more. I mean, when you get an announcement like this at San Diego Comic Con, you're not exactly getting a lot of detail, right? So it's really gonna come down to what the story is. I started off pretty hyped for it. It was a really shocking, surprising thing. I love Robert Downey Jr. I love him as Iron Man, like you said Ben, he's like one of the fathers of the MCU, as we know it. If it wasn't for him, it's not happening the same way as it's unfolded. I mean, he's a great actor and he's captivating and he knows how to play up stuff in a superhero context, certainly from the hero side. Gonna put himself into it and do a great job, I guess. Dr. Doom is one of the top three comic books supervillains of any company, right? I mean, he's right up there with the Joker. He's right up there with, you know, he's like all the best things of Lex Luthor, but just taking to the next level, basically. I mean, he's obviously his main role is as a villain for the Fantastic Four. It's not confirmed that he's gonna make an appearance in the Fantastic Four. There's been a lot of rumor that he might pop in, but I don't know, this kinda changes his character quite a bit. The fact that they're casting him as Robert Downey Jr. seems like a really intentional thing that they want it to seem like it's a multiversal, you know, variant type thing. I just can't think that they're playing him. They're gonna play him straight as Dr. Doom, but I feel like it's gonna be part of the plot that, hey, this guy looks like Tony Stark. I don't see how that's like a really good compelling story. It just feels like it kind of muddles up things the way that some of this multiversal stuff has been a little bit confusing or a little bit hard to follow for people when I just, I just like Dr. Doom so much for his, his pathos, for his, you know, his, his drive. You know, he is the type of villain that, you know, would be just so compelling if you just told the same type of story. The MCU has not done the exact story from the comics for barely any of their movies. So it's okay changing some of the story beats. I'm totally fine with that, but they've always done a really good job getting the heart of the character. And if our first exposure to Dr. Doom is gonna be this guy that looks a lot like Iron Man under the mask, I mean, I don't know, I guess we'll find out how they're gonna do some of that stuff too. Then it feels like it's not really truly Dr. Doom. And that's, that just, that makes me a little wary. - I feel it's kind of a cynical ploy. I feel like Marvel and Disney, I've seen the results of Face Four and they feel like it's kind of flailing. For a lot of reasons, some things that are out of control of them. - And Face Five too. I think we're technically in Face Six now, I think. - Yeah, you know, with, you know, the loss of Chadwick Boseman and then the whole business about with Jonathan Majors and losing the actor that was playing Kang. And you know, there's, there are two ways to think about it. You think about like maybe when the Lakers brought back Phil Jackson the next time they won a championship, they thought, okay, they moved away from him. And then he came back and they had success. But there are a lot of like NFL coaches that they brought back because they thought, oh, this was the guy before. And it just wasn't the same again for a lot of reasons. And as someone, myself who is getting a little burned down again, part of it's just the quality. And maybe it was the expectations of coming off the high of the Infinity Saga and how almost all those movies hit and the emotional climax of it, you know, I was just like, I saw it on Twitter. I was just like, what are we doing guys? Like there wasn't anybody else that we could have brought back. There wasn't any other directors we could have brought back. When the movie comes out in 2025 and Avengers colon, doomsday, I'm going to see it. But I'm just going to be a lot more guarded with my opinion about it. - Yeah, you're totally not wrong. I have full faith in Robert Downey. I would have been more impressed if they had resurrected Kang. It would have been a challenge, but they put all this time into Kang with the Loki series and everything else. It would have been a much, much better thing to do. Beyond that, I don't see them ever going back to another cohesive timeline, because not only do we have the Avengers, we have the Avengers, we have the younger Avengers, we have the Thunderbolts. These are all colliding. They're all going to go in and out of these movies. And they have shown that after they got packed back, back to the golden era of the, you know, the Infinity Saga, they cannot tie these together. So they're just kind of throwing stuff against the wall. - And yeah, I was really unimpressed. - Right. - Yeah, I'm with Keith on this one. When we were walking, Ben, I told you, I was like, "Just hire another actor to be Kang." Kang is known for being so many different people in so many different centuries. Just hire somebody else's Kang. You don't need to bring in doom. This seems like a very panic move for me. Also, like Ben said, a cynical ploy. In fact, when I introduce a prop here to the podcast, so well. - All right. Brad is a, well, okay. So on Videoland, Brad, just put on a Patriots hat. - I put on a New England Patriots hat. I am going to compare the MCU to the New England Patriots here. The new, the MCU has been a very, very successful franchise. The New England Patriots had been a very successful franchise. The MCU has struggled lately. So as the New England Patriots. Well, the Patriots did not bring back Tom Brady. The Patriots did not bring back Bill Belichick as of yet. The MCU has brought back their Tom Brady. They brought back Robert Downey Jr. in a role that he's not done. I don't think it needs to be done. I didn't think it was, it didn't need to be done. Now, when that said is true though, I think the Russo brothers are the key to this. If they could somehow help the writing with this, if they can direct and bring it all together, I will be okay with it if they find a way to do it right. So I'm, that's my only hope. So, but I think the MCU is now doing what they probably shouldn't do. They need to move on to something else. And I don't think Doom was the answer, not yet, not now. Plus also with Disney's meddling, it reminds me a little bit of Bob Kraft, the owner of the Patriots doing a little meddling too. So I mean, there's connections here. Initially, I was like, okay, cool. Downey Jr's back. I was like, yeah, but couldn't we have had somebody else? Couldn't we have done another can? Couldn't we, I think it's too soon. I think it's too soon. That's the nuts and bolts of it. I think it's too soon to introduce Doom without any build. If you're gonna bring Doom in, you gotta have a build behind somebody like him. When they brought in Thanos, they had enough years and build to make him there. And he became a central point. And with the build, I think it made him be one of the best MCU villains there is. Loki's the same way. Loki started off as a one-shot, but they gave him enough build to turn them back from villain to hero. So you give enough build to a character and it works perfectly. And MCU struggled to do that for a lot of their villains. And unfortunately, the way it's looking, I don't know how much build they're gonna give the Doom. They're running out of time to do it. And unfortunately, it's just, I think it's gonna be rushed. And if you rush a character like Doom, you get like the Fantastic Four movie where you forgot the reboot Fantastic Four movie where you got just, it doesn't, it's not Doom. It's just another guy having a Doom name, so. - Would you feel more confident if Doom is introduced in the Fantastic Four movie with Pedro Pascal? 'Cause that one is gonna come out about a year before this one. - See, I think you need multiple movies to build up the character. I don't think it's just the Fantastic Four is gonna work. Even if you like introduce them right away in the movie and you like build the character up, I still think you need multiple movies. You had multiple movies on Loki. You had multiple movies on Thanos. I mean. - Thanks about Thanos saying, though, if he goes to Fantastic Four. - I think Luke, yeah, but I think you need more than two. I think you need like three, like Thanos, you didn't see Thanos in action until Infinity War. And that was nine years worth of movies. Right now, if Deadpool and Wolverine had like a little clip of like Dr. Doom working in the back or something, I would have said, okay, they're building up Doom. You don't even need Downey Jr. You just need somebody. - Just real quick, Brad. I thought the point that you made about Thanos is really, really sharp because Thanos in the comics anyway, a little bit of a loser, honestly. I mean, like he's like obsessed with death in this weird, really weird, romantic way. And he keeps getting beat by a bunch of scrubs in the comics. But they-- - Oh, a helicopter? - Yeah, yeah, exactly. But they take their time with him and they make him seem like this force, right? This force in the galaxy. So that, I mean, he's one of the most popular, you know, characters in fiction, honestly, thanks to the, you know, popularity of these movies that, you know, Endgame and Infinity War in particular. And Dr. Doom's story, you know, Secret Wars, if it's gonna follow either of the major comic book events that Secret Wars would be named after, Dr. Doom has a pivotal role, but it's one that's built off of a knowledge of that character that, you know, in the '80s when that event first happened, fans were familiar with Doom for over 20 years. When it happened again in 2015, you know, it was closer to like 50 years, right? So there's this kind of culmination of Doom's efforts that lead to his, you know, big triumph in Secret Wars before he gets beat, of course, spoiler alert. But that doesn't happen as well if he's only introduced just sparingly before maybe one movie, then he shows up in Avengers, Doom Quest and then whatever happens in Secret Wars happens. It's a bit of a, you know, I mean, I think what everybody has said is right. It's a scramble, right? They're scrambling a little bit and they're trying to fit in. It's like, hey, this is gonna be our, and they're probably part of the reason that they went to Robert Downey Jr.'s that they have a lot of faith in him. Okay, he's gonna be problem free at this point. You know, they've been working with him for, you know, the last 15 years. They know what he's all about. He's all about, you know, incredible acting at this point. He's moved past all of his stages with his demons and all that kind of stuff. They can trust him. It's just weird that they decided to do it this way and I don't really get it. - There's a lot to chew on. We'll see. We'll see. And I'll be happy to be wrong in 2026 or whatever. You know, if it's great, it's great. And I'll say it's great. And I'll reference how I didn't think it was gonna be great. But right now, you'll see. I wanna think, first of all, I think Matt for coming on again. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah, thank you. - Thank you, Matt. All right, Keith, I want you to plug through a quick report. - Absolutely, Brad says something else kind of like-- - He's just sitting with him. - With the meal, OG@gmail.com, movies and meal on X/Twitter. And give us a listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or if you find a podcast. - Okay, so open this up so you can move me some beer. I bet. - And Keith, it's Brad, peace. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)