There's one person on this planet who's been given the responsibility of keeping you together, just one. And so if you're not doing it, it's not going to get done. It's nobody else's responsibility. People pay us to compress their time. It's like, I want to do this. You've done this. Help me get there faster, right? And that's a huge part of coaching and consulting. So how are you showing up and doing that for them? But it is an integrity issue and it's going to come to head as our industry grows, right? And more and more people are becoming coaches and consultants. Introducing The Vixen Voice, a podcast for ambitious women entrepreneurs ready to move into their feminine essence, live their truth, and unlock their full potential. I'm your host, April Roberts. And each week, I'll be interviewing inspiring women who decided to take a leap of faith to pursue their dream. Women who believe that they were born for something bigger. Hi and welcome back to another episode of The Vixen Voice. So I have an expert crew for you today. And they are veterans of The Vixen Voice. We have Dana Scaggs joining us again. If you'll remember, Dana is the queen of boundaries. So we'll talk a little bit about that today, but we're going to be talking more about her role as a therapist. And she has a master's in clinical psychology. And she's a licensed psychotherapist in the state of Tennessee. And we also have Sylvia Worsham, who has been a frequent flyer on The Vixen Voice. So Sylvia, thank you for your time again. And I actually had the pleasure of being on her podcast recently. So we'll chat about that. And Sylvia is founder of Sylvia Worsham Coaching. And she is a spiritual transformational coach. So what we're chatting with you today about is the difference between therapy, coaching, consulting, and potentially spiritual healing. We might get into that as well. So unfortunately, our advanced spiritual healer came down with COVID. But as you know, I practice spiritual healing as well. So I may wear two hats, but we'll see where the conversation goes. So I want to think Sylvia for bringing this topic up. She has a friend who's a therapist, and they were having a conversation because there tends to be right now this tension going on with like what's therapy and what's coaching and which do you need and who gets the client. You know, Dana and Sylvia and I really agree. It's collaboration over competition that if you're a client of ours and you need help, like we want you to get the help you need, right? And so, but you know, this conversation really spurred for me this understanding that, gosh, I wonder if some women are confused. They're like, you know, I need a guide for this, but I'm not sure what type of guide I need. And I'm a big fan of following your intuition. Now, suddenly you wake up and hear someone and say, wow, I need a spiritual healer, you're probably being guided to get a spiritual healer. And if you wake up and say, wow, I need a therapist to listen to this problem, you're probably being guided to get a therapist. And if you see some ad or hear a coach speaking somewhere and you think, wow, I need a life coach or a business coach or a consultant, you probably need it. So, you know, first and foremost, trust your gut. Second of all, remember, they're not mutually exclusive, right? Meaning, you know, I just, I was sharing with the ladies, I was watching owning Manhattan over the holiday weekend, like, yes, I was Netflixing. So, with my mom, and you know, one of the realtors there, she was like, it really does take a village. I have an astrologer, a spiritual healer, a therapist, a child wound therapist, you know, and just like this whole slew of people that she works with. So, you know, I definitely say in today's world, we want to be smart with where our money goes. So, follow your gut. But today, we're going to do our best to kind of talk about some of the differences in what we do and some of the similarities. So, maybe this will help guide you to what's the best solution for you. And, you know, Dina and Sylvia, I think you'd agree with me, but I can tell you this, if you ever have a call with me and I feel there's a better coach for you, I'm sending you to them, right? Because we really do want the best. And same in spiritual healing, I mean, I have a whole family of spiritual healers. Sylvia knows she's had a healing with me, she's had a healing with a friend of mine. If you want guidance, we're here to guide, right? So, I'm actually very grateful to be able to live my life this way, having been a lawyer and a financial advisor in my past life, which tend to be very competitive industries. And I love that we're in a collaborative service-based industry. So, I'm going to kind of open the floor up to Dina and Sylvia, like, what are your initial thoughts when we think about this? Have you ever come across this with a client where they weren't quite sure what they needed? When they usually, when they come to see me, they're looking for a therapist and that's who they're pursuing. As you were talking, I was thinking about, I know, because I was doing some research, and I know that in my field of psychology in particular, but in licensed therapists, research is kind of a big deal. They do a lot of it, especially psychology. And it's interesting that one of the research findings that they came up with was that more so than the education, or the experience of the therapist, what made the hugest impact on the efficacy of therapy was the relationship between the therapist and the client. And so, that's been proven through research. And as I'm listening to you talk and I'm thinking about Sylvia and I'm thinking about the other people that we know and us all trying to love each other and collaborate with one another, it's just like, I think finding the person that best resonates with you. Because even in, even just in each one of our areas, you could find somebody that's coming to you for some type of coaching or some type of consulting. And you just don't, you just don't fit for whatever reason. And then you would respect that and you would find someone saying, you know what? I think I know the exact person that's perfect for you. I know I've done that in therapy. Sometimes you get somebody and you're trying your best, but you're just not quite jiving. And to do the best service for the client is to make sure that if you're not clicking, if you're not resonating, that you find someone that they do resonate with. And that was just coming to my mind as I was listening to describe that. Yeah, I love that. And you know, it's obviously different in psychology, but you know, there's this big thing in the coaching world about guarantees. Like, what's the guarantee if I buy these hours with you or this package or if I enter into your mastermind? And I feel this whole conversation is a waste of energy. Like, if I'm not bringing value to you, I'm not going to hold you to a contract. Does that make sense? Like, I just think it's, it's, it's a little crazy. It's always like, Oh, what's my guarantee here? What guarantee am I putting on here? Here's what I'm going to guarantee. If I'm not bringing you value, I'm going to let you out and give you the rest of your money back. Like, that's just how I feel, because to your point, like, you know, why, why try to force something that's not working? And you know, luckily, I haven't had that situation to date. But you know, as you grow, you're going to have it at some point. And I had a recent situation with a client like to share, but Sylvia, I want to hear from you first. What are what thoughts came up for you as I was doing the introduction or feelings? For me, it does have to do with relationship, whether you're in therapy or being consulted or being a coach to that person. If they don't jive with you, they're not going to work with you. And if they don't work with you, both in therapy and in coaching, they're not going to gain the value that we can bring them. That's going to be part of the issue. And that's why the relationship really needs to be established. Like, oh, I've been in therapy myself, and I've been coached. And they're totally different disciplines. And they come at different times of life. And if I'm dealing with something like, for example, my grief journey right now with my father, I'm going to go to the therapist, because a lot of what I encountered could be PTSD down the road. And a coach is not going to have the training to be able to handle PTSD versus a therapist that is highly trained and certified in this area. But if I want to deal with mindset, shifts, boundaries, anything along that line that's not trauma related, then coaching is definitely a plus, right? Because it deals with the present moment and habits, right? So habits, mindset shifts, anything along those lines is very much a coach that can help you with that. But if it's anything deeper in trauma, then that's where I say, no, I'm not certified in this arena. And I'm going to refer to a therapist that not only has the training, but then if you then if you have the relationship with that person, then that's your therapist, right? I mean, and if they're not, then you'll be able to refer them to who can have a relationship with them. That's where it came up. Yeah, and you mentioned trauma. And you know, what I was, what I was taught in my certification is coaching is a forward based practice, right? Like we're future forward and coaching, which I like that you use present moment, like what's going on with you presently and how do we want to change for the future? Whereas when we think about trauma, that's usually something from the past, right? I mean, you're removing it now or working on it now. So I think that's kind of one way to think about it. But Dana, what would you say? Because here's the interesting thing you come to have to answer. I don't please. That's why we're having the call to have to insert. It is. Yeah, because I had a patient that gave me something a little plaque years and years ago, it said don't stumble over something behind you. So something I've found myself dealing with when I'm working with my patients or my clients, you know, we're, we are, I'm always moving forward. We set goals. Like I would ask them, I said, we're going to do goal formation. And this is a question I want you to think about. How will you be different whenever you can say, I don't need to keep coming here. I don't need to keep coming to therapy. And so then I take what they say, we break it down into small bite sized pieces that we measure, that we are, we are going to then re measure. And so it is a moving forward goal, goal focus, solution focus. Where are we going from here? Why are you here? Why are you willing to spend your precious time, money and effort to sit here with me? Where are you wanting to go that you're not right now? The thing of it is, especially I find myself when I'm working with boundaries with people, when they have trouble setting a boundary, the question is why? Why are you having trouble setting this boundary? And almost always, it's because of something that happened to them in the past. It's some experience that they had. They're stuck. Exactly. There's some lesson they learned. There's some narrative that they created that we have to go back and dismantle. We can deconstruct it, question it, challenge it, and then rebuild it so that can then go forward and set healthy boundaries. And so I very much see it as a weaving back and forth between where are we wanting to go? And when we get stuck on something, asking the question, why? And it it harkens back to something that happened to them 10 years ago, then we we back and go, okay, let's examine that for a moment. Let's dismantle that look, challenge that. And then once we get that straight and around, okay, now let's we back into the future and see if we can continue to go forward with that. So that's how kind of what I do with my patients and clients and how I kind of see that working. I love it. No, I would totally agree. I didn't and and I agree with you. I think it was just more, you know, future looking and coaching that we don't necessarily look at the past. Like we're not trying to figure out why something is the way it is. It's just like, hey, how are we dealing with this now? And you know, where are we going in the future? I absolutely love that you set goals with your clients. I mean, is this a common practice? Yeah, in therapy, because I really I I did go through therapy. Well, when I was going through my divorce, I loved my psychologist, but I don't think I've ever heard of this goal setting in therapy. Is this common practice? I I don't know how to answer that except that it seems that there is a group of therapists out there that they kind of pat you on the shoulder and go, Oh, bless. That's so sad. I'm so sorry. Now this gets to my personality on some level, but I don't see the point in that. Now I see the point in being compassionate and empathetic and understanding and providing comfort. Absolutely. But I'm not going to pat somebody on the back and go, bless your heart. What good does that do? That is no good. So finding its goal and asking them, okay, look, you're here. Why? Why? You're here rather than someplace else. And so from what I understand goal setting isn't necessarily always done in therapy because some people do the Freudian where you're just kind of in the moment, you're in the Gestalt, you're in the moment, there's no goal setting. It's just you're just in the moment. And but I work, I weave that into, depending on what's needed at the moment, we'll do like empty chair, we'll write letters to pass people that they have had, they're kind of stuck, they have an issue with and they've never really, they've never processed it. And so we'll have a moment where we put that person in the in the chair in front of them and we'll kind of be that Gestalt moment, right? With right, sit there with their feelings and that kind of stuff. But in my mind, I see that that's all about though, where are we going with this? If I don't have goals with a with a patient, I don't know where we're headed. I don't know why, what do we need to, you know, sort of, I tell my patients, it's kind of like when you're playing golf, and you can have a golf bag full of golf clubs. But if you don't know where the hole is, you don't know which club to pick out of your bag, you have to know, what's the goal? Where am I wanting to go? And once I know where my patient wants to go, then I know what what club to pick out of the bag, but it's up to them to decide what those goals are. It's not my decision to make. I love it. I love that your goal setting, and I love that you're in my state, because if I feel I need therapy again, I'm calling you, because someone's moving me forward. So I love it. We can zoom. So Sylvia, a question for you, and feel free to comment on anything Dana said as well, is, you know, when you start saying you're a spiritual transformation coach, which I know you are, and I know exactly the work you do and the women you work with, right? But again, we're talking about the audience, how things can get confusing, right? Like, how does this differ from spiritual healing, which is on the rise now, spiritual coaching and spiritual healing, right? But if someone came to you, because I do spiritual coaching and spiritual healing, so I know the difference to me, but do you ever get that confusion when you're talking with potential clients? Yes, and no, and where it gets confusing is because a view religion very differently. And we have to have that religion versus conversation. Whereas I ask them what relationship do you have with your higher source of power? Is it God? Where are you in your journey? And this is where when Dana was talking earlier about weaving back and forth, we have to kind of weave a little bit into the past, because a lot of where their relationship comes from, or lack thereof, comes from their past experiences. Now, that's where we can start in coaching. We deal a lot with belief systems, and those belief systems are what drive our actions or reactions in life and our results, ultimately, right? So when we are guiding them, it's, it's to understand where they are in their journey. Do they have a relationship? And if they don't, where can we start? Because the kind of work I do, I kind of take them through a journey out of their fear into their joy and ultimately into total surrender to God. But that takes time. That takes a little bit of time, because sometimes there's layers of fear that are covering their relationship with, with God. And I need to understand where, you know, what is driving that relationship? And once I understand that, then we can start working with what are your goals? Like, can we start moving you into a space of joy? And what do we need to do to do that? And so we're very goal oriented in the kind of coaching that we provide. And I, what I find, this is where it gets a little confusing for people. Where do I go to get this level of work? Do I go to a healer? Do I go to a therapist? Do I go to a coach? And that's where I think there's a little bit of, that's where the collaboration can, can happen. Or that's where the competition sometimes arises, right? Because people overstep their balance. If I find that in their journey, there's like major trauma, I'm not going to step in there. Because ethically, I won't be able to help that person to the best of my ability. That's where I would call a therapist friend and say, hey, do you know of anybody who has this type of training or this type of certification to get this person into a better spot? That's where I would kind of gain some understanding from their journey. Well, thank you for that. And Dina, you do both coaching and you do therapy. So talk to us about that. Okay, so the therapy, since I'm licensed, that is only with people who reside in my state. And so, and actually, I can be anywhere, but my patient has got to be in the state when the therapy takes place. That's, that's licensure driven. Coaching, because I started learning more and more and experiencing more and more about how impactful boundaries are. Not only listening to all of the stories that my patients have, but also I have stories of my own. And so I wanted to be able to train more people and how to practice healthy boundaries. And when I decided to open up boundaries coaching, see, I can do that with anyone in the entire world. And if they're like, oh, I have this issue, it's a boundaries issue, then we can just jump right in. And we can, we can talk about that relationship. Okay, why? What are the boundary issues? And why are we having trouble setting the healthy boundaries here? What would the healthy boundaries be? And why are you having trouble setting them? And the answer to that, why question becomes very important? Because then that's how you kind of figure out what where's the hitch in the get along? Why? What's the issue there? So that's, that's really, that's really a lot of fun to do. You know, as I was listening to Sylvia, you were saying earlier in April as well, you know, when you're going out and you're trying to find experts in areas, I think a lot of us, we want to try to find someone who actually knows what they're doing, who can actually do what they say, because we all know that anybody can go out there and say, I'm at this or I'm at that, but you have to, you know, it's like, okay, well, interesting, but the proof is in the pudding, right? And so you can, you can find whether it's someone in therapy that's there, because I know I, I've been to therapy before, I know there's therapists out there that they're not that good, to be honest, they're just not, they're not great, let's just be real, okay? And so then you can also go to a coach who says, I'm a coach of this or that, and you go to them and you're like, okay, you say you're a coach of this or that, but what's, what's the proof? How do I know that you're actually doing what you say you're doing? And so I think lots of times the word of mouth is fabulous, and that's why we're getting out there and really, because we're so passionate about what we do, and we're passionate because we're good at it, and we've had an opportunity to practice it, and then other people can kind of, you know, come along and we can help them, and then those people go tell other people, and the word of mouth really spreads, and so that's what I think really makes the big difference, whether it's in therapy or coaching or consulting or, you know, healing or whatever, it's that word of mouth is really, really a big deal. Well, and I totally agree, and, you know, the coaching industry as a whole, I was just at a mastermind the other weekend with a Rampla coaches, and there's an integrity issue coming to head, because like you said, lots of people can say they're a coach, and it's like, okay, well, like, what, what makes you a coach, and it's interesting to me, and you're correct, as in any profession, they're good doctors, they're not so good doctors, they're good lawyers, they're not so good lawyers, right, so, but it's so interesting to hear it from a therapy standpoint, because I don't know, I always think like, they'll just go out of business or something like that, but to your point, they don't, so I think, again, it's a trust your gut. If you don't feel you're getting the value you expected, first and foremost, you know, have a conversation with your service provider, whoever their coach consulted therapist healer, explain this to them and give them a chance to talk, because maybe there's some misunderstanding or misalignment, right, like, so, I would always take that first step, because I do hold, regardless of someone's qualifications, certifications, et cetera, from what I found, most people in our industries are really there to help people, right, some may be better than others, so give them a chance to have that conversation, I always think that's the better human being thing to do, and then if you don't feel you're getting what you're needing, don't hesitate, move on to the next, because, you know, I mean, one, you're paying this person, but two, time is money, you're looking to heal or solve a problem or move forward faster, I mean, you know, in that room last week, it was like, hey, people pay us to compress their time, it's like, I want to do this, you've done this, help me get there faster, right, and that's a huge part of coaching and consulting, like, people are basically paying us to compress their time, so how are you showing up and doing that for them, but it is an integrity issue, and it's going to come to head as our industry grows, right, and more and more people are becoming coaches and consultants, so I totally agree with you with the word of mouth, and, you know, if you're listening and you're a coach or consultant, like, let your clients know you're open for business, sometimes they don't know that you have room for other clients, I know on the consulting side, I only take five clients at a time, right, so I'm not always open to take on new consulting clients, but when you are, tell your clients, because if your clients love you, they want you to help their friends, too, right, so don't be shy about this. Sylvia, I see the wheels turning, what's going on over there? No, no, no, I just think it's, there's just so much information, and there's so much misinformation, and you're right, and the coaching, I've encountered people that have called themselves coaches, and when you ask them specific questions about, well, tell me more about the ego, tell me more about this, tell me more about that, and they're totally lost, then you know that they're not trained by anybody, they're not really certified, and but they're calling themselves coaches, because that's the popular thing to do, and that's the problem with the industry that we're in, is that people won't excuse themselves from a job, because it's money left on the table, if you will, but the problem is, you're not putting the clients or the patients needs up front and center, and that is a problem, that's an ethics problem, that I see a lot across the board, and it's also sales 101, if you want to make more sales, you better put that patient and that client's needs up front and center, and it not be about you making more make, because you can tell right away, when you're dealing with people that just don't, that's all they care about is to make the next sale, versus they're really interested in helping you gain those goals, or gain that understanding as to why you're stuck in the circumstances that you find yourself in. Yeah, I agree, for me it's about always bringing value, if you're always focused on the value you're bringing to your client, then you're going to do the right thing, and guess what, the money follows, because people are tired of BS, right? People want you to be an authentic good person, I really think that the world is hungry for that now, and so if you lead with being this authentic good person genuinely wanting to guide people, like you can't lose, there's just no, there's no losing road in that, so yeah, I totally agree, I was going to share, so I had a client, she's one of my consulting clients, and I love, like you know, I love her, she loves me, like we get along great, but she needed some done for you work, and I've been doing done with you work, like you know, where she'll do work or have someone do it, and then I give her my opinion, and I was like look it's really going to speed it up if you get some done for you work, like why don't you not work with me the next few months, because she's changing careers right, and take this money, and go I'll help you find someone, and I did that, and she's happy as a lark, and I hopped on a call with her today, and she's like I miss you so much, I was like I know we'll work together again, but right now it's not right, like your money is better spent here, and then my door is always open for you, and like it just makes me happy to see her getting what she needs, and you know, guess what, she's going to send clients to me, she's going to come back and work with me, am I not making money from her right now, no, but like I get to see the value, and you know the fruit of our work together being put, getting put in issue, you know, Sylvia I'm coming to your 50th birthday party in a couple of months, and I have another client launching a book, I'm going to her birthday party and launch party, like I think when you truly love your clients, like you get so much gratitude from them winning, that all of this goes away, and you know my client, the same client I'm talking about one of the people I introduced her to, I introduced her to a couple to do this done for you, working just like they keep missing deadlines, and they say they want to get to know me, and I just don't feel the enthusiasm, I'm like hey look, it's your money, you put your money where you want it, right, like you're not going to hurt my feelings, if they're not a great match for you, let's go back to the drawing board and figure out the best person for you, but I do think you know I hope if you're listening and you're looking to hire a coach, a therapist, a healer, a consultant, like it is your money, and you get to choose, it's not just your money, but it's your time and energy, which sometimes are arguably more expensive, right, and if you feel you're not getting what you're worth, like speak up, like please speak up, so queen of boundaries, give us guidance on this, because you know thinking, well that's not true, I hired an ad company that I just got out of the contract, because I stepped out for the owner, I said hey I want to talk to the owner, and I explained to her you know no results, no communication, no relationship, like they were literally, and unfortunately I think they're a great company, I think it's just the project manager I had, we weren't a match, and the owner let me out of my contract, I mean to her you know kudos, and I didn't even expect to get let out, I was just like look, I'm not working with you anymore, I'll pay you the retainer monthly, but I'm not continuing this relationship, and here's why, you know very factually, and of course today everyone records meetings, which worked in my benefits, so but data, I mean you know what guidelines could you give, because I have had a lot of clients come to me, and they're skeptical, and they're like I've just worked with coaches, and I've gotten burned, and Sylvia said she's experiencing it, you know thank goodness I haven't experienced it with a coach or a consultant per se, but you know the marketing world, I've experienced it plenty, it's painful over there, what people promise you, so if someone's listening, and they found themselves in the situation, and they want to get out, like what guidance would you give them, because it's really setting a boundary? Well in April you are very adept at being assertive, and standing up for yourself, and speaking your words, and there are a lot of people that are not this way, and I've run into a lot of particularly females unfortunately, but that we just, God's called, like I see it, that we females sometimes have a harder time speaking your mind, because of people pleasing, and wanting to be seen as kind, and this, and this idea, this narrative, that if we, if we stand up for ourselves, if we speak our mind, if we say this isn't okay, this is not what I want, then we're seen as hateful ugly rude fill in the blank, so with regard to boundaries, what I tell a lot of my clients is that there's one person on this planet who's been given the responsibility of keeping you together, just one, and so if you're not doing it, it's not going to get done, it's nobody else's responsibility, and so when we talk about like I'll, in my coaching, I talk about yards, our yard versus our neighbor's yards, like who, you know, you're responsible for what's in your yard, get out of your neighbor's yard, and so in our yard is our thoughts, feelings, and actions, and so if that's our responsibility, and if it's in disarray, if there's some things going on that we're not, you know, we paid for fertilizer, right, and they didn't deliver it correctly, then it's our job to say hey, this isn't working, and so it's our, that boundaries is twofold, number one, it's making sure that we are responsible, and we're taking care of what's going on in our yard, our thoughts, our feelings, our behavior, but also equally important, not owning what's in our neighbor's yard, their thoughts, their feelings, their actions, and so frequently we will not say anything because we're like oh my gosh, if I say something, I'm going to hurt their feelings, they're going to get mad at me, right, that's, those are your neighbor's feelings, whether technically you can't hurt anybody's feelings because their feelings are in their brain, okay, I just want to make it to choose how they feel, yes, that's it, they're going to respond how they're going to respond, so we have the right to say this isn't really working well, and something else I'll toss out really quickly is I teach my clients how to frame things in the affirmative, like this is what I want, instead of I don't like this, this is not working, I hate this, instead of saying that, saying this is what I really want, and it's not really happening, so what can we do to make this happen, this is what I am seeking, this is what I do want, this is what I would like to achieve, can we do this together, you know, it's what's happening so far isn't really meeting the goals, but is there something else we can do that will help me meet these goals and be very specific with those, and that way we can kind of go forward setting those boundaries and being very affirmative and positive with that, yeah, no, I love that, I love the positive outlook, I always talk about the sandwich conversation and boundaries which is very simplified, but like tell them what you appreciate about them, give them your bullet points, and then end with here's our positive next steps, right, but I like it, you're keeping it positive all the way through, because in the middle should really just be vocalizing how you feel and how you think and what you would like to see, right, because you have no control over the other person, so I love that spin on it, thank you so much for that, so we are sadly almost out of time, I hate that, because this is such a great conversation, obviously, and to Dana's point you have three strong women on here, but look, there have been times where we weren't this strong, right, I can promise you, the reason I had that difficult conversation last week was it violated a spiritual principle that I hold dear, and I like to say it's God, my soul, me, everyone else, so if you violate God or my soul, that's a real easy one for me, like I'm out, so, you know, and to that point choose your battles, like we only have so much energy, like where do you want to plant that stake, and where do you want to fight that battle, and where do you want to assert that boundary, that making, make sure that not doing so is not harmful to yourself, and a lot of what I hear you saying Dana's in the on the spiritual side of things and Silvial understand this, I call it standing in your dignity, and for women it's incredibly important spiritually to stand in your dignity, and we have been socialized and trained not to, so we are, that's why you possibly need a therapist to unlearn behavior, you need a coach to set new habits, maybe you need a spiritual healer, because it's really deeply ingrained, right, like, so there are all these things going on, and I think the important thing is as we wrap up, I just want to encourage everyone listening, because the majority of our listeners are female, except for, like, my dad, my dad cracks me up, he's like, I learned so much about women listening to your podcast, dad, he was like, your first three episodes, I learned more about women than I did my entire life, and he was 74, that's awesome, it's so fun, so by the way, if you are a man listening kudos, because you're learning about women, but anyway, you know, just encourage you to stand in your dignity and do the right thing, because there is so much that we have to unlearn, and, you know, it happens over a lifetime, so if you're younger listening, like, this happens, Silvia, closing thoughts for us today are a parting message for our audience. Really, there's so much help out there, and there's no reason for us to be competing at all, let's all be collaborators, because our spiritual gifts are very unique to us, and we have a very special imprint to make on this world, and we need to step into that work fully, and collaborate fully with each other, because together we'll be unstoppable. Yeah, I love that, thank you so much, that's awesome. That's all about you. Oh my gosh, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna say, you know, kudos to what Silvia just said, it's just like we've got to reach out and step into our space, and own who we are. We, you know, looking at it from a spiritual standpoint, each one of us is on a path, and each one of us has experienced different traumas, or we've gone through different trials, different tribulations, for a reason. Each one of these things has impacted us, and we have come out on the other side with different coping strategies, because of going through things, for, you know, like there's a lot of reasons, April, you know, some of it, about why I know what I know about boundaries, and so each one of us is just owning that and stepping into that, and trying to be a beacon, trying to be salt and light in the world, trying to be, you know, that light on the hill for other people that maybe are farther down the path, then, then, you know, we've worked our way down, we've gone through some things, and we need to turn around and shine a light for those behind us. So the ones that are going through the stuff that we've already been through, they can find their way because we're shining the light. I love it, and I'm going to piggyback off what you share, Dana, by the way, if you want to hear Dana's story, please go listen to her episode. First of all, she's a freakin' hoot, she's going to crack you up, and if you're an abundant businesswoman, we have a live pin to the top, you will pick up all kinds of new phrases, but definitely go hear Dana's story, but what came up for me when she was sharing is I also went on a journey of learning boundaries, and mine might be less traumatic or dramatic, however you want to say it than Dana's was, right? But that's still my story, and it happened for a reason. So do not diminish your journey just because someone else's journey is tougher, right? Like, I thank God every day for what I call my easy past life. I'm like, "Okay God, thank you, this is my easy past life," right? And I joke, if you know, you know I had an ex-husband who's a cocaine addict, like I've had myself, but for some reason, in this lifetime, I was sent the coping skills where it seems easier, right? So I like to joke it's my easy past life, but it doesn't diminish the things I go through, and so as you know, if you're a listener, I always say go forth with love, how can you show up and more love today? So I want to challenge you to go forth in love for your own story, no matter how severe, easy, etc. it is, and go forth with love for other people's stories, right? We really are fascinating specimens, we human beings, and when you really listen to someone's story, you will fall in love with every one you meet. So that's my challenge to you today, and I'm sure you've fallen in love with these two women. They are amazing femme forces. So again, as always, in the show notes, you can find how to follow Dana, how to follow Sylvia. There are past episodes with both of them, so you can search for that if you'd like to hear more, and thank you so much for joining us today. If you're watching this on YouTube, I'd love for you to drop questions below because we might have a follow-up episode because I'd really like to go deeper in this topic. So if you had a question we didn't touch on, share it with us, and we might do a replay, you never know. If you ask, we listen. So have a great day, remember, let's have each other's back, show up in your truth, and show up in love. Thanks everyone, we'll talk to you soon. Thank you ladies. Thanks again for listening to the podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to hit subscribe so future episodes are automatically downloaded directly to your device. And if you want access to today's show notes, including links to all the resources we mentioned, visit vixingathering.com/podcast. Thanks again for listening, and I'll catch you next week for another episode of The Vix and Boys. [Music]
