Journey to Truth

EP 242 - Former USAF Jim Goodall: Inside The Aerospace Industry - Area 51 & Black Projects

Originally aired on 4/6/23
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Jim Goodall:
James C. Goodall USAF (Ret.) is a world-renowned expert on the SR-71 Blackbird spy plane, the F-117 Stealth Fighter and Area 51.

Duration:: 1h 45m
Broadcast on:: 19 Jul 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

If you're a facilities manager at a warehouse and your HVAC system goes down, it can turn up the heat. Literally. But don't sweat it. Granger has you covered. Granger offers over a million industrial grade products for all your operations, including warehouse HVAC maintenance. And even better, they offer access to experts and fast delivery, so you and your warehouse can both keep your cool. Call 1-800-granger, click granger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. [Music] [Music] Hey guys, welcome back to the show. Just a reminder, tickets are still available for the conference, and day passes are now available for $88 if you can't make it for the whole event. We'd love to see you there, even if it's only for a few days. Dream passes are still available, we're trying to have an enhanced live stream experience this year with multiple camera angles and hopefully interactive where you guys can ask your own questions to some of the speakers if they do, if they allow questions, hopefully that works out. But anyway, grab a live stream ticket if you can't make it in person. All that information is available at JourneyToTruthCon.com. Tonight, we are joined by Jim Goodall, he is a retired Air Force Sergeant. Master Sergeant. Master Sergeant. A world renowned expert on the SR-71 Blackbird, spy plane, the F-117, stealth fighter, and area 51. So we're going to kind of get into the inside scoop of what's going on in the aerospace industry, and some of his experiences over the years, including his relationship with Bob Lazar, John Leer, and Ben Rich. He has some incredible stories to tell, I'm excited to get into it, so welcome to the show, Jim. I'm delighted to be here. It's going to be fun. The end of April is going to be more fun, though, I think. Right, right, yeah. If you guys don't know, Jim and I will be on a, we're heading down to Belize to go explore some ancient rooms, we're pretty excited about it, so that's going to be really awesome. But before that, I want to get to know you a little better and ask you about some of your time in the industry. You're obviously an author also, and you've written plenty of books on the subject. But I'm most interested in your relationship with Bob Lazar, John Leer, Ben Rich, because you have some inside information. I guess you could say inside information on these guys and your relationship with them, that not many other people have. And I didn't know if you wanted to kind of let us know how you found your way into this whole industry and how you got to meet these people. Well, I guess the, the, the, the, you know, how I met, who I met, all starts with John Andrews. He was the plastic kit development director for testers. And through a, through a mutual friend Dave, Dave Menard, he's also an old retired master chart. He's long gone now. But John was, John Andrews was preparing to do a quarter inch kit of the Blackbird. And he, he called the guys at the Air Force Museum. He talked to a dozen people, and every single one of them says, you got to, you got to call good all. He has the skinny on what you're looking for. And we immediately became best of friends. And, and because of John Andrews, he said, well, I got introduced you to a very dear friend of mine. This is like 1973. Oh, that's what 60 years ago. And he said, no, 50 years ago, 60. Yeah, that's new math. And it says, I think, I think you'll, I think you'll enjoy him. His dad brought Learjet to the world. It's John Lear. So I became a confidant of John. For, you know, from 1973 on until his death last year, and I figured that died March 30th of 2022. It's been almost a year. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And it's. He was a character. There's, there's, that's the only way to describe John where there was, he was a one of a kind. He was probably had more certificates for flying various aircraft and helicopters than probably anybody else. I think he was type rated in over 50 aircraft types. Commercial, private and some military. And he just, he was born to fly. On his 16th birthday. He flew his dad, dad's Learjet, Lear 23 with a FAI inspector on board. And he flew solo around the world on a 16th birthday. And he still holds those records today. Wow. Pretty phenomenal. He was, you know, he flew for Air America subsidiary called Continental Air Service. He, you know, he flew the, it's a sweetest type of short takeoff and landing aircraft high wing, herbal prop. And he would land on six to 700 foot runways that were cut into the top of a mountain. So if you undercut, you crashed into the mountain. If you overshot the runway, or didn't stop in time, you go, you know, you go over the engine, you know, down four, four canopies of, of Cambodian or jungle. And he said he's been shot at what he's done that a lot of times, depending where he was going, they were always fly with the right hand side door removed. And he sometimes he would come down just touching his wheels and he would just shove the stuff out without stopping because he's being shot at. And then he, the pilots were not allowed to fly with weapons, all of them did. And if John was shot at, he'd take his aircraft and he'd fly around where the shots were coming to it. He had his beautiful 1911 45 and he just are, Bob, Bob, I'm just shooting at him, throwing another magazine to shoot some more. So he was, he was a real buccaneur. He was, there's only one person like John later on the planet and he came and went. Because of my friendship with John Lear, I met Bob Lazar. And that, that's a fun story that it all focuses around my, my love of spooky airplanes. I'm a UFO guy too, but I really might, my true focus and calling is, you know, snooping on our government. In and around area 51, trying to find out what they're flying today or what they're flying back back in a day. And in November of 1988, the Air Force announced the existence of their stealth fighter, the F 117. And they didn't, they weren't saying where it was flying out of. They had only one photo of it. It was shot from a tanker. He was backlit. They used a telephoto lens. So the image was all compressed. So early January, I call up John Lear to say, Hey, I'm going to come, come into Vegas. Let's go see if we can find an F 117. So I said, Sure. So I flew in. This is actually the first week of 1989. And we're heading up to Tonopar. When you leave Las Vegas, you go up US 95. And about the halfway point between the two is a place called Scotty's Junction, which is famous about Scotty's Junction. It was a House of Bill repute, also known as the Horror House. That was taken over by the federal government because they hadn't paid their taxes. And they ran it out of business. I don't know how you can run a House of Bill repute out of business, but the government managed to do that. But about 15 miles north of that of Scotty's Junction. An F 117 about 1500 feet above the ground, cross the runway and cross the roadway at about a foot 45 degree angle and about crash the car. So we got to Tonopar. We grabbed a quick bite with then we hit headed east on US six. You go down out about 14, 15 miles from Tonopar. And there's nothing out there. I mean, it's just barren. There's a big sign with a B 43 nuke on top says Tonopar test range. Turn down that road. It's 18 miles to the main gate of TTR. And I have, you know, I'm a retired military. So I have, you know, I have access to most bases, but TTR isn't one of them and either 0 to 51. But I, you know, we headed down the road. We got, we got to the main gate. And we decided we're going to go along the fence line. So we drive about two miles west along the fence line and we're looking down on the entire complex. You can do that today. Probably wait. Anybody who wants to, you know, who has a vehicle that they don't care if they get a little bit dusty or dirty. I won't take my car because it only has about this much ground clearance there. I'm going to stop you just for a second before you go home with the story. And I don't mean to be rude and interrupted. But you're so you're with John Lear. You guys are going to explore this at 117. At this point, had he shared any information with you on what he believed the government had access to the technologies that the government was working with at that time. Yeah, he shared everything with me over the years. He was pretty outrageous in a lot of areas. You know, some, you know, some, sometimes I think he's, you know, he was over the zealous with, with his ideas, his information. But he did share most everything with me. And he was talking about the underground facilities. I know, I think for a fact that I had a chance to interview the former facility manager, the area 51 or a retired blackwood pilot. And I asked him, are any underground facilities at area 51? He said, no, because there were, I'd have been responsible for him. So he said, not to my knowledge. He said, we have the ability on the other side of the mountain, which is the Papus range. That's the background area 51. They have the boring machines there that can go through solid granite at a foot an hour and cut a 36 foot diameter hole. And when they were when they were digging down when we still did underground nuclear testing, they go down 1500 feet 3000 feet depending on the yield. They put the bomb down there. They put all sorts of test equipment and they run all the cables up, fill the thing up with, I don't know if they use concrete or whatever, but they would fill that hole up. You can go on YouTube and see them once you see the ground come up and then it just goes down into a big dimple. Right. So, I mean, so you don't believe that the area 51 has underground levels. I mean, that's pretty much, I thought that was common knowledge across the board at this point. But according to the facility manager, no, I mean, but there's, you know, there's things out there he may not have, may not have been cleared to see. And it may be someone else's responsibility, you know, S for is, you know, cut into the side of the mountain. It's camouflage. You can't see it from the ground. You can't see it from the air. Of the satellite image, you know, whatever. And when you did, when you dig a tunnel, when you dig an underground facility, you have a debris field somewhere, you have to put that dirt somewhere. And there has to be a road in and out. And those. And again, the Air Force and the United States military has gotten really good at camouflage. So, you know, the entrances and the roadways going into S for, maybe, maybe really. Camouflage where we can't see him. Right. Right. Of course. Yeah. So then you and Bob, are you and John Lear were on the fence line looking down and what did you guys witness? Well, I look to the north and about 15, 18 miles north of us. I see a black fuzzy ball with a light on the bottom and then a little bluish white fuzzy ball with a light on the bottom. I just, I assume that was the F 117 and a photo chase, which is typically T 38 talent. So this is before digital photography. Normally I shot coat of chrome and I would take seven to 10 days to get that process back to me. So I'm shooting color print film. I'm shooting color, coat of color. I have, I have an icon with Nikon lenses. You know, they're, you know, they don't get much better than that. And I'm watching that. And I, as, as the F 117 is filling up my viewfinder. My body is starting to vibrate. I was like a 10 or 11 year old boy seeing a naked woman for the first time. I mean, literally, I was like, you know, I was trying to keep myself from vibrating, but it was just vibrating. And the 117 flew off and landed. And it was just, it was incredible. And I said, John, let's get out of here. We got to get back to Las Vegas in time so I can go to a photo mat. Those of those of us that have white hair or gray hair, we know what photo mats are. They were a little kiosk in the middle of a parking lot, usually in the shopping center. They were the same colors, Kodak, they're yellow and, and, you know, that yellowish orange and red. And you go and then drop off your film. You would only have to get out of the car. You just drive up is like a barista now that I think the coffee baristas have taken over those little shacks. And I knew it was going to be, you know, a couple of days before I got the print film back. So I was kind of frustrated. So we, we had on out. We stopped the little alien in Rachel for a quick bite. And then we had to, you know, back to Vegas. We know we're getting there after nine o'clock when the photo master are closed and we finally get the leers house. And he said, I got a new friend. He just moved up here from Albuquerque. He's interviewing for a job out in the desert. He hasn't gotten it yet. But he's gone. He's had quite a few interviews. I think you like him. So about 15 minutes after we arrived in Vegas, knocking the door, where goes and answers the door. The young man comes in very pleasant, nice looking guy and introduces himself as Bob Lazar. Well, and we were just talking airplanes and stuff like that. And then I said, Hey, I got it. I got some film that I did. I'm frustrated. I got it. I can't wait until tomorrow so I get the film processed. And he said, what kind of film? I said, coat of color 100. He said, I have a processing unit at home. Let's go over to the west side of town where I lived and I'll process the film for you and we'll print, print some up so you have to see if there's anything worthwhile. So I said, great. So we told John, we'll be back probably in about an hour. We jumped in Lazar's car and we're about a block from layers house. Lazar looks at me, you know, she says, I feel sorry for that dumb sum bitch layer. I said, what do you mean? He said, he's from, he's from a world famous aviation family. He said, my God, his dad brought Learjet to the world. And this guy believes in UFOs. You got to be kidding. He says, I'm a nuclear physicist. If I can't prove it mathematically or put my hands on it, it doesn't exist. He said, you couldn't put a gun to my head to convince me that UFOs are real. That was Bob Lazar's statement to me. How ironic. Or he was hired on at S4. His story has never changed. In 1989, 1990, he had a, I think it was a deck, many computer in his house because PCs at the time. He was very good, not very fast and had limited capabilities. And he had a name on a name on closure. And it was filled with processors. I mean, it was 19 inch wide, you know, 24 inch deep and six foot tall. That was his computer back in 1989, 1990. And then shortly thereafter, I get a year later, George Knapp has a guy named Jared silhouetted, altered the votes, the voice talking about doing reverse engineering on alien spacecraft. And that was my introduction to Bob Lazar. Well, he since changed the story that he believes in UFOs now. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. So. And I, you know, I've, I've stayed, I've stayed true to my feelings about Bob. There's all sorts of speculation. Oh, he's a plant this and this and that. And he became a, he became a, he doesn't exist anywhere on federal records prior to 1989. That's when they made him a non person. Yeah. And fast forward to desert shield and desert storm. And I, it's 1990. I'm, I'm there. I was in the, I had five years active duty of Kenya break and then I had 21 years with the Minnesota air guard is a traditional weekender. But my company had been shut down by the French and I was going through divorce. So I volunteered to go to, you know, to go to desert shield and desert storm. I even volunteered to go to Saudi Arabia for a year. But I was at the, I was at the Pentagon. I'm at garb. And I have, but I have Bob Lazar's W two in my back pocket. And on one particular day, I had absolutely nothing to do. There was a stand down or something going on in Saudi Arabia. So I decided I was going to see if I can find the. Location from the US Navy that paid Bob Lazar. And the name, you know, the name on the W two. So I'm looking, I'm looking through the Pentagon directory and I cannot find the specific Department of Navy. That paid Bob. It's not listed anywhere in the, you know, the Pentagon directory. So I decided, I think it was, I think it was. NCIS, I think it was Naval investigative services, or that almost like the Navy JAG office. Found that office and I said, well, I'll just see if they can tell me. So I go in there at this, at this particular point, I made, I'm still a tech sergeant. I mean, my, you know, my blues, not the, not the full dress uniform, but my light blue shirt and dark blue pants. I go on the doors open. I, you know, I want to walk into this office. There's a young lieutenant JG behind the, you know, behind the desk. And I said, Sir, can you tell me where this department of the Navy is and I handed him was ours, W two. He looks at it and said, Sergeant, excuse me for a second. He gets up. He goes into the two stars office. He's in there 20, 30 seconds comes out, said the Admiral will see you now. For those of you who have been in the military, especially those of you, maybe even the Navy, no two star Admiral on, on just a hunch or whatever is going to talk to a puke air force slash air guard enlisted person. So I go in there. I gave him, gave him a real sharp salute. Instead of saying at ease, he said parade rest. So I can tell he was irritated at me right then. And I'm standing there and he's holding lizards, W two. He said, Sergeant, I don't know where you got this. But if I see your face cross the threshold of my office ever again, you'll be the most sorry, some vision, NCO in the United States military. Do you understand me, Sergeant? I said, Yes, sir. With that, he put lizards, W two into the shredder. Wow, you're just, you're dismissed. Now, Bob had been a plant. If Bob had been a phony, I would not have had this reaction from the two star. Right. He was, he was pissed because I had something, a name of a Navy organization that the name is classified apparently, and that he was incredibly, I mean, he was, he was angry at me. I mean, it wasn't what you shouldn't have this or whatever. What do you do in my office? No, he was. I mean, his eyes were big. His, I mean, you could tell by his tone of voice and his facial expression. This two star was pissed at me. Yeah. Right. And, you know, when I got back to the section, I just scratched my head and I said, well, probably the only reason why I got the reaction that I did is that Bob Lazar is real. Now, he's real to me. He always has. And it goes on and on. The other thing that another piece of the puzzle that people ignore, well, he's a plant. He's never done this. He's never done that. George Knapp, who I've known as long as I've known John Lear. So that's, you know, over 50 years. You know, George Knapp went to Albuquerque where Lazar said he had worked. He worked at. I think it was Sandia. And he went to the Sandia library. It's, you know, there's two, two parts of it. There's the classified side and then the public side. And he's in there and he pulls out the telephone directory directory for Sandia Labs. For the time that Bob said he was there and opened up and there's a Robert Lazar with the phone number that Bob said he had, and the room number, and the two guys in the same lab. You know, George looked up those names and everything was consistent. Plus Bob said that I was, I made the front page of the lifestyle section of the Sandia newspaper. And there's a picture of Bob standing in front of his jet car. And it says, Sandia professor relaxes on weekends, going 300 miles an hour and a quarter mile. And I've seen the jet car. I mean, it's right. So everything, everything that I, you know, wasn't even looking for emphasized the fact that Bob is real. Bob is, you know, Bob is not a plant. Bob is who he says he is. Right. Well, it would be, it would make sense that there would be a force in place trying to discredit him. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And that's, and that's a very big, big part of the disinformation campaign is if someone's telling the truth. And the government doesn't want that information out. Well, let's destroy this person any way we can as far as his credibility reputation. Yeah. Well, one of the points a lot of the skeptics make that he's that he's lying or he's fake is that they scrubbed all his records from the school he went to and everything. They're like, Oh, he never went to that school. He's lying. Like, no, they scrubbed his information because he's, yeah, because he's real. That's why they did that. That because he's lying. And then two, he, I remember him saying the whole reason he even went public is because he was scared for his life because they were already starting to kind of come after him. And he's like, well, I got to come out fully publicly now. Otherwise, they can kill me and this information dies with me and they had, they had called him. And they wanted to, you know, the security people need one to talk to him. But they said, well, meet you out at Indian Springs, which is now chief creature for space. It's about 30 miles outside of Las Vegas on US 95. And Bob said he went out there for the interview and he's sitting in the car with him. They pulled they pulled guns on him and threatened, threatened to shoot him. And I think that's when Bob said, look, you know, this life is too short. I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to allow this to happen. Right. So that's when he decided to go. That's when he decided to go public. And because he knew Lear. You know, he, you know, he inquired, what, what, who would use, you know, recommend that I go to as far as major media. And it was George Knapp. Because George and John had been, you know, friends forever and ever, you know, both, both John and his wife, Mary Lee were, you know, real, real big in, in Las Vegas movies and TV stuff. And John, you know, John has been just a celebrity for because he's John Lear. Right. And he put his money where his mouth is. He was, when he was the chief pilot for American Trans Air. This is John Lear. Some journalists down in, down in Houston, called him up or cornered him one of the two and he said, I don't like the fact that you're, you know, you're a person in a position of authority. You're the senior captain and, you know, the, the lead, the lead pilot for American Trans Air. And you believe in UFOs. And if you can, if you keep this up, I'm going to start a campaign to destroy you. This is, this is a journalist. This is one of our, you know, those who want to, you know, journey into the truth and they didn't want the truth. So John met with the president of American Trans Air. This is an Indianapolis. And the president said, John, all you have to just tell me says, you want to do this anymore. We'll just leave it at that. John said, I can't, I can't do that. So he, he, he turned his back on a, probably a $400,000 a year job, because it went against his best interest. I mean, his interest was, you know, to make sure the public knew know about UFO is alien encounters and whatever. When he got home, you know, he told me early that hey, I just lost my job at ATA. And he went, he had to go somewhere else when he came back. She had empty out his office. Now those have been never seen John Litter's study or his office is about a 20 by 20 foot room. You couldn't put any more photos on the walls or any more books on the bookshelf and everything had to do with UFOs with this time in, you know, Southeast Asia and aviation. And I'm proud to say that a good, the largest part of the wall space was taken up by photos that I'd given John. But he came home and and all his, his filing cabinets are gone, everything's gone and. Mary Lee said, you see, I've changed the numbers. For the house, all the phone numbers are changed. And you're not allowed to give him out to anybody unless I approve, because he was getting calls from all sorts of crackpots all over the planet. And, and it merely liked me. So my name was on the list of approved people that John can give his phone number to. But he's, you know, he, he put his money in his mouth is, and he, you know, he really felt that he had, you know, it was his job to make sure that, you know, this information that brought forward. And he did that until the day he died too. I mean, absolutely, absolutely. Now he said a lot of outrageous things, but contributing with some of the stuff that's going on around the world and underground facilities and whatever. Maybe he wasn't so outrageous after all. Right. But I, yeah, I absolutely, I miss not talking to John. Right. And, and, but he's also a prankster. You don't, you don't know if he's pulling your leg or whatever. And I mean, a couple of times he was, I had been at Rachel, and I had borrowed his four wheel drive pickup. And I was sleeping in it near the fence line of area 51 and a payback came through and almost landed on top of the car and the turbulence ripped off a couple of his antennas, which I wasn't aware of. So he came, he came and says, I mean, he was pissed. He's jumping up and down. He's almost foaming at the mouth that I screwed up his truck and whatever. And I'm feeling really, really bad. And all of a sudden, I see this twinkle in his eye. I said, Larry, you son of a bitch. He said, you're pulling, you're pulling, you're pulling one on me. And he starts laughing. He had a great laugh. And that was John Lear. And that's the, that's the John Lear that I knew. Right. And I covered, I covered three or four. He had some very specific groups that really didn't mingle into into any other groups. The exception was me. I was both in the aviation side, my love of the desert, you know, spooky airplanes, UFOs, and whatever. And so I, you know, I covered a lot of his area of interest. And I think it's why we are our friendship blossoms like it did. Yeah, that's great. And one of his very, very dear friends was John Andrews from testers. And they go, they went back, you know, to the sixties. And when John Andrews died, he had asked me. He said, when I died, could you take my ashes and make sure they're dumped in over area 51. And merely, and he'd also taught told John Lear the same thing. And he merely had cleared it with the cremator that I wanted in, equally in two containers. So I had his, he had his memorial service in San Diego, merely gave me his John's ashes. We flow, we drove back up. This was on a Wednesday, we drove back up to Las Vegas from San Diego. And then Lear says, why I rented a, I rented a jet star helicopter there at McCarron. And we're going to, we're going to fly to the, the north end of area 51 and we're going to make sure John's ashes are spread all over area 51. So the next day we're out at McCarron, John was certified to fly the jet star, but he wanted to have an instructor pilot fly. You know, just, it removes it, you know, the liability claims or if something had done wrong. And as we're heading towards, we took off McCarron, we're sort of going up 15 in the helicopter and just past Nellis, heading north. And before you get to apex, there's a real sharp ridge line and the wind is howling and we go over that ridge line. We were bouncing all over the place. We didn't go inverted, but we were sideways a couple of times. And I'm, I'm kind of concerned. And I look at Lear and I look at the pilot and they're just sitting there like just nothing to be concerned about. I said, well, if they're not concerned, then I'm not. And we're about halfway there, maybe two thirds the way there, and John says, I got to go to the bathroom and the pilot says, I got to pee too. So we land out in the middle of the desert. There's three guys out there wandering the cactus. And then we took off and as soon as we got over Hancock Summit and that's the summit, you go down in Tippuku Valley. And that's where you can see the back road area 51 as soon as we came over that, you know, over that ridge line. They launched a, you know, where beach was it, 1900. It's the, the, the air guard used them for VIP transport and just, you know, a hack airplane. But this aircraft took off from it from area 51 and started following us and we had up 375. And then when we got to just where we got to Rachel, there's a road going out to the bombing range. They call it 10 mile road. So we head down that way. And then you could, you could see where the fence line is in the area 51 and you can see the tracks where they patrol it all the time. So we're sitting up there. We're about 1500 feet above, you know, about 3000 feet above ground level. The wind is howling. We're sitting there. We're being buffeted. And John gets on the radio and he knows the frequency that they monitor at area 51. And he says, dreamland dreamland. This is John Lear and Jim Goodall announcing that John Andrews is on final approach to run runway 14. Left with that. I opened up the slider. Put my hand out dumped his ashes. They went down as soon as they hit the 30 mile an hour north wind, it just went straight into area 51. So John's ashes are scattered all over the place. That's a great story. And we had a male military escort with the, the beach flying around us. And then we, you know, then we headed back and the, you know, the beach, the beach back into area 51. So it was. Now, the reason the reason I'm wearing that today is because of John Andrews and that was just a fitting tribute to my friendship with him. And my friendship with Lear. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah. Now, did you, from my understanding, you had a relationship with Ben Rich as well, the CEO, former CEO of Lockheed skunk works. What was that relationship? And because he, I'm sure you're familiar with his quote, we already have the means of travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects. It would take an act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity. Anything you can imagine, we already know how to do it. Did he share anything that pertain to that with you while you were friends with them? Yeah, we talked once a quarter for 25 years. I don't know how I got onto his list of favorite people. But if I didn't call him, he would call me. There were times when I called him, he put me on speakerphone. His secretary, June, would recognize my voice. You know, Mr. Rich's office. Hi there. Oh, Mr. Goodall. So just second, I'll connect you with Ben or connect you with Mr. Rich. He put me on speakerphone. I can tell there's a half a dozen people in his office and we're just sitting there. Shooting the breeze. And it just, it just went on that way for, you know, for up until he died. And in August of, I mean, our friendship was submitted so well that in August of 89, Ben called me at home. And he said, Jim, I said, I have it from the horse's mouth. He said, the blackbirds are not going to make it through Congress. And if anybody can scrounge when it's you. He said, okay, so I went to my boss and we had to General L. Schwab and I said, General Schwab, I think I want to get a blackbird for our museum. He just laughed at me. I said, sir, rather than saying, no, why don't you give me the opportunity to fail? And he said, Marty, how are you going to get it here? Because the ones that are available from museums, you know, they don't fly. So I said, I already have that covered. It says, what do you mean? It's why call the edge of the general of the state of New York. And you know, General Weaver and I called his office and second to answer the phone. General Weaver's office. I said, this is Sergeant Goodall with the 133rd. That's the 133rd airlift wing in Minneapolis. He says, General Weaver available. Just a minute, Sergeant, I'll put you through. So General Weaver gets on the phone and we're chatting away. And I said, sir, I have a proposition for the New York Air Guard. He said, what's that Sergeant? I said, how would the New York Air Guard like to move the world's fastest airplane in a couple of your C5s? And he said, I mean, it's quiet for about 10 seconds, 115 seconds. He said, you mean the blackbird? I said, yes, sir. He said, when you're ready, you call Wohal. I told General Swab, I don't have that covered. And they did when we got the letter from the Air Force Museum. The other thing I managed to do, which has never happened before since, is I got the entire Minnesota Congressional delegation, five Democrats, five Republicans, all to agree to sign the letter that the Minnesota Air Guard Museum. The Air Guard Museum should get the blackbird or a blackbird because of the involvement of Honeywell. Honeywell had all the electronics, you know, the autopilot, the stabilization augmentation system, in like control system. That was all from Honeywell. 3M provided a lot of the flexible circuits and adhesive use on the blackbird. It was built and manufactured the static penal system. And 5 of the original 812 pilots learned how to fly or flew with their respective Air Guard locations. So you got the blackbird to the museum, though. That's great. Right. And the thing about it, we got it. We got the 8 production 812. It's a single place. They fly higher and a little bit faster than ESR. And my claim to fame when we recovered, we recovered them in October of 91. I took a C 130 with 18,000 pounds of equipment and 12 other guys and we flew to Ponddale. And in two and a half days, we took the outer wings and engine the cells off of the 812 blackbird number 128. And then we left and came back was it 10 days later, and we had the C5 there ready to load. We had one and a half, one and a half inches of clearance on the floor. I mean, the four rails, we could have talked the Atlanta gear in some if we had a problem, but it fit. So on the 27th of October, 1991. We load the 812 blackbird into a New York Air Guard C5. They don't have fuel available at Ponddale. So we had to go up to Travis. We spent the night there. Next morning, we took off, we're heading to Minneapolis and we're about 45 minutes out and the chief. He's going to go down and check the load. I said, can I go with you? It said, normally the answer would be no, but since this is your, this is your project from beginning to end, of course, come down. So I went down, I climbed up in the landing gear, walked along the chimes, opened up the canopy that had blocked open with a wheel shot. And I had a five gallon bucket in there with a cushion. The seat was all the way down. I went in there and closed the canopy. I was in here for about 45 minutes. Just. And when the air in a blackbird and then finally he wrapped in the bottom say, we got to go back up. So I went back up and then. About 40 minutes before we're supposed to land chief comes back to me and said, the boss said you can be in the cockpit when we land. He said, I'm on the front part of the C5. The back part is troop carrier. They have 75 seats behind the wing box. I'm on the front section. He said, no downstairs. So. I called Ben rich. The next day. And I said, Ben, I said, I think I've done something with the blackbird that absolutely no one else on the planet can. Say they've done and probably will never. I'm the only person will ever be able to do that because rules change. But I'm the only person in the world to be in the blackbird cockpit of a blackbird at 33,000 feet at Mach 0.72 inside another airplane. That's amazing. That was that was the boss. It just gave me. That's amazing. How's it going? Good. So you mentioned off air that you you were trying to interview Ben Rich, but that never happened. So can you explain what happened with that? Well, he had a wait till he retired and he was doing a lot of things. And he said, I just I need my get my book finished with Leo Janos. And it was my time at this concert by Ben Rich and actually done by Leo Janos. And by the time that happened, he was diagnosed with terminal cancer. He had esophagal cancer. And it just we just ran out of time. Michael Stratt, who's also a long time friend of mine, has the original letter that that copy that Ben wrote to me saying that I will be a no holes barred interview, but I had to wait for the book to be finished. And he had the nerve to die on me before. But the last thing my last conversation with Ben Rich, he was at USC Medical Center. It was about 10 days before he died. And I call him up and he said, and we're talking about John Andrews and John John Lear and a bunch of other people. And finally, near the end, it was about almost an hour long conversation. I can tell you it was weak. He said, Jim, we have things out in the desert and he wasn't referring to Area 51. He said, we have things out in the desert. That's 50 years beyond what you can comprehend, not what you think it can make in 50 years, but what you can comprehend. And I can comprehend a hell of a lot. They said, if you see movies like Star Trek or Star Wars, we've been there, done that, or decided it wasn't worth the effort. I said, Ben, you want to expand upon that? I said, no. And then he had the nerve to die on me 10 days later. So, but his statement, his statement at UCLA, basically saying, we have the ability to take ET home, but our government went along that information to be made public. And that's infuriating. And that's why I've always been a pain in the ass to our government, because I snoop. I mean, when General Roman, who was my wing commander, he was at a general conference in the in the late eighties. And it was all the generals from the Air Guard, the Air Force Reserve and active duty. And he was there. It was about a 10 day gathering. And the chairman of the Joint Chiefs was General John Vessy. He's from Minnesota. He grew up on Lake Milax in central part of the state. And General Roman was chatting with General Vessy. He says midway through the conference. And he said, we've given, it says, we get a big kick out of your sergeant Goodall. You know, some of the all of us senior officers really think what he does makes the Air Force look good. And referring to my books and whatever. I said, but there's a few of the younger, you know, younger officers, we'd like to have them whacked. But we've given, we've given your sergeant Goodall a nickname. We refer to him as agent orange. And that's been my nickname, given to me by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General John Vessy. And it just cracks me up. I mean, I mean, I mean, when I when I was on the fence line at Tonopon test range with the. John later, this is 96. So we're fast boarding the 96. Tonopon test range is now in caretaker status, allegedly. And we're out there. It's at night. It's about 11 o'clock at night. We're an eye right there. We're in our lawn chairs. You don't want to sit on the ground because the scorpions and bugs and whatever. And we have night vision goggles on. And we look and we see three armored personnel carriers coming, one from the west, one from the east, one coming up from the south. And I stand out and yell real loud. Hey, we're good guys. We're taxpayers and all of a sudden we have floodlights on us. John has three little red dots in his chest. I have three little red dots in my chest. And we see a vehicle had come down the public land side or BLM, but Bureau of Land Management, not the other BLM. He comes around, John's pickup truck. He has his hand on his Beretta's nine millimeter. He said, you're in a restricted area. I'm ordering you to leave. And I said, sir, I don't know who you are, but we're in public lands. And I don't need your permission to be here. Said, I said, you're in a restricted area and I'm ordering you to leave right now. And I pulled out an aeronautical map issued by the federal government that gives a longitude and latitude to the second of restricted areas. And I said, according to this map, I'm a public lands. And if you look at the base of that fence post that my friend has a feed up on the Bob wire, you'll, you'll find a USGS medallion. We're in public lands and I can be here for 15 consecutive days without your permission or anybody's permission for that matter. I want to see some ID and I said, who are you? I'm captain so and so with ASI and it's good for advanced security ink contract security. I said, you're a reticom. You don't have any jurisdiction on this side of the fence and you can just see his jaws just tighten up. So I tell you, I want to see some ID is I've been, I've been deputized by the, you know, by Lincoln, Esmerald and night county to uphold the laws of the federal government and state of Nevada. I said, good for you. So I'll tell you what, I tell you what, you show me yours, I'll show you mine. So he hands me his ASI badge. I said, sir, that's not a valid form of ID. I need something issued by the state of federal government. And he's getting more and more pissed. So he hands me as Nevada driver's license. I don't have my reading glasses on. It's actually fine. So I lived in Minnesota at the time, where is, you know, living on Hollywood Boulevard in Las Vegas. And he pulls out his driver's license and I pull out my hand to the guy. He has to a guy in the south side of the fence. Walks over to the one of the APC's armored personnel carriers had to be the supervisor. Hands them the driver's license. The guy turns the lights on inside the APC, you know, ACP and. He said, I can hear him say, Oh, shit, it's good all in there. The lights went off, the red diets went away and they just dispersed, but we knew that since we were found and they knew it's there, they weren't going to do anything. And it's, and it's, it's kind of heartwarming that they knew who we were. That's an even yeah. So that's what I do. That's what I do for fun. And I've been to the fence line at TTR and area 51 over 80 times in the last 40, 45 years. It gets a little bit more difficult because I used to have a car that I could drive anywhere and not worry about it. I have a grand sport Corvette and I have about this much clearance in the front. So I don't, it would tear everything apart. And my tires are too expensive. You hit something to get, you know, punctured tire, you know, 150 miles from nowhere. Right. You don't want to do something stupid like that. Sure. So, I noticed you were in the documentary, Secret Space UFOs, the rise of the TR3B. It was a darcy, weird. Yeah. Yeah. And so what are you familiar with the TR3B and its capabilities? Have you experienced anything surrounding that? No, I've, I've seen the TR3A. It's built by tele, teledion Ryan. It was only about maybe three and a half, four feet wingspan and they were flight testing it out. You know, off one of the dry light beds somewhere in the Southern California. The TR3B, which has been seen all over the planet. If it has FA required red and green lights on it, then it's man made. So we don't know when I say we, you know, those of us, you know, in this community, you know, we don't know if, you know, if it's. If it's ours, if it's if it's theirs or if it's another, if it's, if it's Russia's, I don't think the Russians or the Chinese. They're good at stealing information, but not so much, you know, breaking barriers and learning how to do things that we don't know how to do. Right. Now, do you think I witnessed one personally last March, March 2nd of last year fly right over my house actually is completely silent. It did not have the red and green lights on it. Do you think what kind of, I guess, do you monitor any of the secret programs that the government might be operating behind the scenes? I tried it. You know, I have a lot of friends. I've lost a lot of them over the years. I was in the group of people that I hung with that were really into spookier planes, the area 51 and things that go bump in the night. I was the youngest of all of them. And, you know, on, on Monday, I hit 78. So a lot of these guys were in their 80s and 90s and have, have expired John being one of them. He was going to be 80 this year, but he didn't make it. So, you know, I tried to keep my ear to the ground for four years when I lived in Hawaii. I didn't do anything when it was, it was two time consuming. Excuse me to fly for five and a half, six hours, just to start my trip. You know, I've landed in LA for six hours. Then I had to, you know, either going off to Minnesota, you know, go to Vegas, go wherever. So I just didn't do that. So I was more or less out of communications, so to speak. You know, for those four years that I was the associate curator at the Pacific Aviation Museum in Pearl Harbor. And that was my fun job. That was the most fun I've ever had. And I was being the curator. I was, I went around and acquired airplanes all over the place. I was responsible for the restoration of the aircraft we had there at the museum. And I tripled the amount of aircraft that were on display there. And I'm proud to be part of it. And I was with the museum, a flight before that I had 10 years with them. And they're one of the founding members of the Minnesota Air Guard Museum, where we had our eight 12. And it was up scounded with, I even made the front page of the Wall Street Journal fighting the Air Force Museum, taking the airplane. Because it was going to, they said, well, we're taking it because it doesn't have ready access. For the general public to see it. So where did they put it? Oh, let's put it at headquarters CIA, where nobody from the general public will have a chance to see it. Not occasionally. So I made my, my likeness is on the front page of the Wall Street Journal, but under the fold. And then the whole big garden, the condition, the remainder of the articles on, you know, I think page nine. But I made the front page of the Wall Street Journal three times. And I'm very, I'm very proud of that. And I'll have to relate it to spooky airplanes. And there were area 51. What kind of, I guess top secret black programs do you think that the government has based on your research? Well, I know, I know for a fact, and this is, you know, 30 years ago, that at that time, there were 16 black programs that the, you know, the Air Force was, was looking at possibly declassifying of the 16. Only four were manned. The other 12 were unmanned. So it's, you know, all, you know, funny, unmanned aerial vehicles for various purposes. But the manned programs, he said, two of them are experimental. And two of them are operational. One of the operational aircraft, and this is from a chief master sergeant, who was in security at area 51 off and on for 10 years. He said that he was called into secure a hanger at area 51 to something came in at night. His his team was ordered to secure the location to make sure no one came out, and it left the following night. And it was a, the guy's, you know, the Mike was his first name he said, it looked just like the general dynamics. McDonald Douglas, a 12 of venture to the flying to Rideau, and guys had generally damage or, or, but I think it was McDonald Douglas overalls on coveralls. But apparently the, the Navy a 12 never flew. But there was a, there was an Air Force version of one of their prototypes and I think it's referred to as the 11. And we don't know what happened with that or where it's at but. Mike, the guy from OSI are not from OSI from the security end up going to. It changes station he went to bowling. Bowling Air Force base in DC working with working out of the office of office and special investigation OSI. And I've lost track of them because I really wanted to nail him down after he retired so he could really spill his guts. But that didn't happen. But I think I have an opportunity to talk to someone probably later on this spring that spent a lot of time at that the place that doesn't exist also known as area 51. And I hope to learn more from him. He said he won't talk about UFOs, but he'll talk about anything else that flies out of area 51. Well, you have to share that with us when it comes time. Absolutely. Absolutely. Going back to the TR 3A that you mentioned, you saw a test flight. What type of technology was that fly? I mean, was it anti gravidics with type of propulsion? Yeah, that was just, I mean, that was just a, it was a model airplane engine. I mean, it was propeller driven and it was just, you know, it was testing the shape and the maneuverability and whatever. And again, the any UFO or anything unknown that you see up in the up in the sky day or night. It has your FAA required position lights on the wingtips and our and or landing lights or whatever. It's more than likely man made. Right. And, you know, was our said that there was there were nine nine different craft at his when he was at S for. And they were all different shapes, they were all different. I mean, every type of configuration limited to nine that you can think of. They, he saw on one particular day when all the interconnecting doors were open. So. Yeah, again, because of the fact that I didn't do anything for, you know, for four years, it was, it was kind of hard to get hard to get back, you know, back into it and a lot of a lot of my friends that I had, I was pretty close to had passed away. I mean, there in 2014, I think I, I lost someone one every three weeks for the averaged out over the year of 2014 of dying primarily because old age or, or illness, cancer and stuff like that. So. So, we hope you get quite a few years left in here. Oh, yeah, yeah, I have a feeling I'm going to live to be at least 105. Perfect. My mom's side of the family. My mom was 100% Sicilian. I lost her mother's day a long time ago. But, you know, I'm, I'm laser focused when it comes to digging into stuff. I don't take no for an answer. And when someone says no, that's when the sale, the sale job begins. And that's when the digging starts, you know, begins. And I've been really, really good into that. So. Right. Well, we need people like you, they're going to be a thorn in the side for the government, you know, because some of the stuff they're doing, you know, maybe it's not even illegal or legal. So. Yeah. Security, the way security is in the federal government, most of security is to hide funds. You know, the bean counters, the bean counters, the ones that destroy corporations because they're so nearly focused on immediately immediate return on investment and such. You know, they, you know, they're killing their killing industry, they're killing innovation. And that's what. That's the problem we're running into today. And. When I was doing what I was doing, I had a, there was a group of us, it was about 10 of us, and we referred to ourself as the dream land interceptors. Probably the most prestigious guy we had in there was Michael Dornheim, he was the senior writer for aviation week. We had a guy named agent X, you know, he put on a cross on a sniper suit. You know, you'll try to tumbleweed. And he crawled into area 51 and got within about 150 yards of the runway. Well, it was, it was a four day trip to go in and come back out, because they have sensors out there that can, you know, that can sense noises. You know, there's all sorts of stuff out there. And, and, and he did this. Sorry, he did a slow enough crawl with the disguises of tumbleweed. You know, he had a sniper suit on. So, I mean, you look, I could go out in the backyard, you know, behind the fence in the desert and just curl up into a ball and a sniper suit. And you could be looking for me all day long and walk right by me and never know it. He said he had people walking. He said there was a maintenance team or someone doing something with the runway lights. It's only about 150 feet from them. And he says, they, there's the hardest part was going to the bathroom. And, you know, of course he had to bring enough enough water with them. It wasn't so much the food, but he had energy bars and whatever. I said, would you do it again? He said, no, my, my nervous system couldn't stand it, because you're, you're, you're thinking the whole time. What if they find me? I mean, I'm in really deep, you know, deep kimchi if that happens, but they didn't find him. It's impressive. I, I would, he just tried it just to see how close he could get and make it back. That was the only problem. Now I wandered in from the, from the North fence line. There's a whole series of hills. It's run off everything also, you know, from the, the groom range. That was about three miles in. And I think I probably lost 10 pounds of sweat. It was winter time. There's 30 degrees out. The fraud that I was married to before. She was also a good seamstress and she made some of the, your survival blankets and ones that day go in, day glow orange on one side. She was, she was a womanized on the other. And she's, you know, she sewed on with a quilted pattern. Some infrared, suppressive desert camouflage material and made a poncho out of it. So if I heard, and I, it would have to be really loud because I'm really hard of hearing. If I heard someone coming, all I had to do was just go, just pull the thing around me and crutch down into a ball. And if they're, even if they're scanning with their infrared, I wouldn't, I would not show up. That's what I, but I got in here about, about three miles worth. And I, unless I'm just stopping wet from sweat, I was so darn nervous. And finally, I just turned around. And every time I go over one of these rises, I'd see another one. And I went over three or four of them and I said, none. I'll never make it. I'll never, I'll never survive the anxiety associated with it. I mean, it's, that's a commitment. Not many people would even dare to try that. So I think it's pretty awesome that you guys even attempted it. Yeah. But the, to go back to the TR 3B, they're being seen all over the world and they come in various sizes and it, and it could be a, those that are manmade would be an offshoot or replication of the bigger TR 3B's because there's, there's, there's regular size ones and they're super size ones. You think this is the type of craft that like, but Bob Lazar was reverse engineering. The problem, more than likely the propulsion system is the same. Yeah. One of the things that Bob said in the very beginning that the element. One 15, you know, providing the, you know, and I gravity capabilities was element 115 and people started laughing at it. Well, that doesn't exist anywhere. Yes, it does. And not many years later, I guess, multiple years later that they made the announcement. Oh, we have, we've created element 115 in the lab. It's not very much of it, but we have it. So, you know, the element he was talking about, everything that Bob talked about as, you know, no one can, no one can find fault with what he has to say. Right. There's Dave Froohoff, who was a former SR 71 pilot, and who was a facility manager at Area 51, was looking for UFOs. He said, because he said in late 72 or early 73, he was stationed at Kadena, Okinawa, flying SR 71's over Vietnam, North Vietnam, Cambodia and Thailand. And he was on a night mission. He said he was at 78,000 feet and Mach 2.7 11 o'clock at night. And he's he's going straight. He's not curt, you know, banking or going anywhere. He's just going in a straight line. Off to his left is a three quarter moon. Off to his right, about five or six miles off, off to his right, five or six thousand feet above him. He's getting a, he's getting glints off of something reflective. It wasn't the edges to it. It wasn't, it wasn't a round or smooth surface. The thing had, you know, had edges. He doesn't know if it was, if it was metal metallic or if it was just, you know, shiny surface reflective. He contacted Kadena and secure voice to see if they had another bird up and said, no, you're up there by yourself. And he said, no, I'm not. I'm gonna go take a look. And he advances the throttles. Now the SR 71 will fly at Mach 2.7 at absolute minimum afterburner. That airplane is more fuel efficient at Mach 3.2 than it is at subsonic. The airplane and the inlet and the engines, they just want to go fast. And unlike 99% of the aircraft out to the high performance aircraft, where your top speed is say is Mach 1.2 or 1.8. But the operating range is only 60% of your total. That capability on the blackbird, it flew at about 95 between 90 and 95 percent of its maximum performance, both an altitude and speed. So as he's watching this thing as he's as he's coming up to it. He doesn't want to open up his visor. He's getting reflection inside the cockpit, even though, you know, the lights are such that they don't cause any problem going straight. But to look out the window and to look up, he's getting this reflection. He didn't want to open his visor to get a better shot in case all of a sudden he had rapid decompression. He would be toast. So he didn't, you know, he couldn't because the stars are up there at 85,000 feet or 80,000 feet. The stars, there's billions of them. And you could see where there were no stars where shape was, but he couldn't see that. And said when he was still a thousand or so feet below the object and still probably a mile away, this thing took off. Said about a 30 degree angle of attack, and he lost track of it as it went through between 180 and 200,000 feet. When he retired in 78 or 79, he applied for a job with flight systems out of Mojave, which ended up being the path to his next job, which was facility manager at area 51. And he was there about a year before he started asking any questions, because even though he knew everybody, when you're working on a compartmental program, whether it's a black bird, whether it's TR3B or have blue or whatever, you don't go around asking questions. He asked questions, you know, the flags go up and maybe this guy is a threat to security. And all I had to do is pull your, you know, pull your ticket, you pull your security clearance and you're screwed. If your entire life is revolved around having a security clearance, and all of a sudden you don't have one. That's a really good incentive to keep your mouth shut. So, he was there about a year and after about a year, he started, you know, he was at the club one evening, talking to some guys had been there, you know, for 10 or 15 years already contractors, civilian types. He said, do we ever have anything, you know, light tested out of this place that could leave a black bird in the dust, and all of them said, no. And so, you know, and, you know, later on, he denied every saying what he said to me, I think he was, you know, he was talked to by some of the security people. And it's, and there's, and there's no, there's no positive aspects to, you know, keeping this stuff quiet. As you know, as American citizens and taxpayers, if there is a threat. And I don't see UFOs as a threat. They've been coming here since time began, and if they were hostile, if they had ill intentions, we would already know it. We wouldn't be on this conversation right now. We would be in the lithium pits, you know, up until I died, you know, digging, digging for, you know, rare earths and stuff like that. So, but the, you know, I think we may not be in the position. I'm talking about humans. We may not hold the key to disclosure. It may be them. You know, there was an Israeli scientist said here within the last year or two that we're not ready to, you know, to see the aliens to see the UFOs. We're not ready for it yet. It's coming. And I think it's coming soon. I hope it happens before I pass. I want to see them at an open house flying over. Oh, yeah, this is, this is our sports model. And this is, you know, our top hat version. Oh, and this is the TR3C, which is, which is bigger and faster. And I hope I hope to live long enough to see that. But it's, it's going to happen, you know, disclosure is going to happen. Apparently. Dr Greer has, you know, has some new stuff. Michael Shrat is working for him now. As an archivist and a historian. And when it comes to Michael Shrat, nobody knows the subject better than Michael when it comes to stuff that's crashed or, you know, primarily. You know, primarily, you know, crash retrievals and crash sites and sightings. And the thing I love about Michael, he doesn't embellish anything. He's like Sergeant Joe Friday and drag net. These are the facts and only the facts. Right. And I've known Michael for, you know, 25 years now. And he's like my kid. And will you guys say something? Yeah, I was just going to say. Yeah, I mean, there, there's been many whistleblowers over the years and decades that have said. Different what we would call benevolent ET groups have actually tried approaching our government and other governments around the world. And said, Hey, if you guys put, you know, get rid of your nukes. Stop going, stop warning, stop killing people will share our technology with you and help you and, and eventually, you know. Disclose ourselves to, to the world and everything. Once there's peace on the plant, there has to be peace on the plant. They can't, they're not going to like come out while we still have wars and, and we're still doing. And again, and basically we, we like laughed at them and refused and said, Ha, ha, no, you know. So then what happens is the negative groups that are like the service to self, you know, graze and reptilian, whatever, go down the list. They, oh, we can give them a little bit of technology that they, you know, so basically they gave us this technology for that we use for war and for. For enslaving the population essentially and for all these negative things. And, but then now. They have control over us because we, we basically let them essentially. And they have a story of like Dwight Eisenhower who like. You know, a lot of people think he sold us out to the grays, which in my understanding is not true at all. It was MJ 12. It was all done behind his back. And he found out about it and he tried, he tried to find out what was in Area 51, what was going on. And he was denied access and he was the president and he was like. You know, the president, you know, to quote, Dave in the movie, Dave, he said, they're present is a temporary employee. Right. He's there for four years or eight years as a middle manager. Right. Right. And just because he's president doesn't give you the authority to go to Area 51. And that's pretty, that's pretty outrageous. But that was news to him. Yeah, because he demanded, he said, I'm going to take, I'm going to get the first army out of Colorado and invade the base. If you don't let me find out what's going on there and have access. And then so they to appease him. Apparently they took them there, showed him a couple of things, but not nowhere near where, you know, all the stuff that was going on there. And he found out basically, Oh crap, the military industrial complex is kind of like. And then it's become this massive thing that can't be controlled, essentially. And he found out kind of how the structure really works and presidents way down the food chain and the whole government essentially is way down the food chain. And there's all these secret on unacknowledged programs, which Stephen Greer goes into in his documentary on acknowledged kind of how that system works. And they have all this advanced technology, essentially that they're not sharing with humanity and they're using for their benefit and not the benefit of humanity. And meanwhile, we're all struggling to survive. You know, we human being, human beings, we may not be in control of the release of the information. They may, they may not said, Hey, you're not ready yet. You still have to do this or that. And I think it's was holding things up. You know, there was, there was a thought going around for a long, long time and it's, and I think it's still a valid idea that for for aliens to, you know, to come out and say, Okay, we're having a coming out party. We're here, we've been here forever. I think the religious glue that holds most of civilization together is belated based on a belief of a Supreme being. God Buddha, Muhammad, the local 711 store down the corner that has an image of the Virgin Mary up in the sign to the thing melted or whatever but they're not going to take it down. It's those people that could not deal with the fact that maybe Jesus was an alien. Right. Maybe Moses was an alien. I swear my daughter is. She doesn't think anybody I know. And there's more. There's life all over the universe. It's not just absolutely. Now I was, I was a docent at Kit Peak National Observatory is outside of Tucson. They're about 50 miles do West. They're at a 7000 foot mountain called Kit Peak. They have 22 optical telescopes and two radio telescopes up there. The optical telescopes go from about a 12 inch to a four meter or 13 foot primary mirror that's the male telescope. And the 12 meter and a 25 meter radio telescope. The 25 meter is hooked into one in Australia. Hawaii. Tucson, West Virginia. And what it does is, you know, and those things are linked together. And this is over and above what they have at securo and it acts as a 10,000 mile wide radio telescope antenna. So they're bringing in a lot of data, but the 2.1 meter antenna antenna. Telescope was used by us by Caltech for five years. They're doing remote operation and using adaptive optics. They had a anytime they're going to be viewing their job was to look for exoplanets planets that exist outside of our solar system. And over the course of five years. Using that 2.1 meter telescope now. Because of the adaptive optics and and how they adjust it, they shoot up a UV laser. Up in the sky, you and I can't see it is UV, but sensors can. And it 18 miles. It has to be a specific diameter. I mean, down to the nano, you know, nano ranch or whatever you want to call it. And what that does is the sensor looks up and it. And if there's any turbulence, you know, the diameter is going to change, not enough for you and I to see it, even if it was visible, but it does change. So 1200 times a second, this deformable mirror. Changes its shape and it has the same resolute pretty much as the as the Hubble space telescope. It's really, really good. And over the course of the five years, Caltech had logged 8000 exoplanets outside of our. Outside of our solar system in a very almost a posted stamp size part of our male key way. 8000 plants in one little area on the area. Yeah. And just before I just before I quit volunteering, I had ended up getting knee replacement and doing a lot of walking up and down. And and I didn't I didn't care for the new volunteer coordinator, but that's neither here nor there. Just before I left we had a beer and pizza night at the NOA of the National Optical Astronomy Observatory headquarters at the University of Arizona. And the keynote speaker was one of the head astronomers and National Science Foundation, and he had just returned from a worldwide conference on exoplanets. And he said based on all the information coming from all the different observatories. And based on proven math mathematical formulas. They calculate for every star in the universe is one and a half planets. And out of that incredible number of planets, they calculate. That there are two billion. That's, that's with a B two billion. Earth like planets orbiting a similar size brown dwarf star as our son. In the inhabitable zone with liquid water. To quote Jody Foster. You quote Jody Foster's character in the movie contact Carol Sagan's movie movie. If we're the only ones with a waste of space. An incredible waste of space. Right. Exactly. And we're not. We're not. I mean, it'd be arrogant to think for us to think we're the only ones. We're an insignificant solar system in an insignificant corner of our galaxy. That's in an infinite insignificant corner of the universe. I mean, we're like the bastard redhead stepchild that no one wants to talk to, because we're, you know, we're pushed so far out into infinity. And, and, and we're the only ones. Yeah. I don't swallow that, but there are people who do, but one of the biggest fears is if all of a sudden. It is, you know, the religious fanatics and the religious beliefs, if all of a sudden. It's, you know, it's speculated in and with, you know, with the arrival of the aliens. That maybe Jesus was an alien. Maybe Mohammed was an alien. Maybe, you know, Adam Smith from in the Mormon side was an alien. Maybe Buddha was an alien. Maybe it talks about. And to remove that religious glue that holds civilizations together. Maybe they're concerned with the fact that, well, if there's no God, that means there's no hell. That means if I shoot my neighbor because he's allowed mouth or he looks at my wife the wrong way. I'm not going to go to hell. I may have to go to prison, but I killed at SOB and he's not going to cause any more problems. I think the fabric of civilized society has the potential from coming on glued. And I think believe that is because, you know, the Israeli scientists have said humans are not ready for what they're about to see. Well, I think people are coming on glued right now. I mean, there is a lot. I mean, we talk about different subjects every week, but the common, the consensus is like, yeah, ETs exist. We know it. And, you know, we're getting into different races, different species, how they're working with our government. You know, you can't ignore it. Like, we can't have an ARV and alien reproduction vehicle without the aliens. You can't reverse engineer alien technology without the aliens. And I mean, so you can't pick and choose what you want to believe in. And all the UFO wrecks, not all of them, but most of them talk about dead bodies or living bodies that were recovered and brought to said location. John Lear talked about this in his report that I actually have sitting right here. The John, the John Lear report has more disclosure in this report from 1987 than anything we've gotten in the last 50, 60 years. And he talks about the recovered alien bodies from Roswell and some other wrecks and all the projects that the CIA and NSA and Project Blue Book and the government. You know, all of those agencies developed over the years, you can't ignore any of that. You can't, you have to just choose not to believe that or choose to believe in what you believe in. But I don't, you know, truth doesn't care what you, how you feel, the truth. Also part of the problem is like we're in a, we're in a system, we're in a society that doesn't teach us these things from day one. Growing up, we're actually taught aliens aren't real. We're the only life. That's all ridiculous. You know, it's ridicule blah, blah, blah. So we're programmed as a kid from day one. Like, what if we were, what if they started teaching, like teaching us this stuff, then it wouldn't be, you know, such a- Wouldn't be an issue. Right. Right. So they got to understand, like, the system conditions and programs us to not be ready. That's a big part of it. Like, we have to take responses. Obviously, like, you know, there's religious zealots and fanatics and stuff. I used to be one. So I get the mindset. I'm not anymore. I mean, I used to be very Christian and I, you know, I used to think, oh, any aliens or demons because that's what I was told. That's what you're taught, you know. But like, if I would have been taught in school, at least, that, you know, I would have maybe looked into it. But you're taught to never look into it because it's ridiculous because there's no evidence. There's life, you know, other than humans and blah, blah, blah. In fact, there's mountains and mountains of that. There's tons of it. It's overwhelming amounts. It's all covered up in history. You know, it's like someone getting a glass of water and said, right. Okay. There's no sharks in this. There's no sharks and whales in here. So they don't exist. They don't exist. Right. Exactly. It's asthma. You know, and then you have people, you know, well, if it's true, why wasn't I taught this in school? My teacher said it wasn't true. Why isn't it on the news? Why isn't the government say talk about it when they're actually been whistleblowers from governments that have talked about it? I mean, one of the things that's happened, you know, they sign legislation had been created to protect whistleblowers. And so there's there's some stuff coming out. And I think there's, I think this year, we're going to see some, you know, some things blow up. And, you know, I think be more disclosure than we've had for the last 800 years. Right. Even if it's the limited hangout disclosure, the soft disclosure, their narrative, it's still something we're still making some headway. They're not going to tell us everything, but they have to start telling us something. Then they already are. Look at the mainstream media. Now they're taking UFO seriously. There's whole segments on it. They're interviewing people. Obviously, it's, you know, they're not going to share everything. Like I said, but it's a step forward. At least now, I think in the coming years, it's not going to be left at anymore. When I was on state staff at the Minnesota Air Guard, my boss was Major General Wayne Gatlin, and General Gatlin was just an incredible photographer. There's anything you see of a Duluth air guard airplane in the air, and it's beautifully positioned back, you know, the background everything, everything is, everything is running spots, more than likely it's a Wayne Gatlin shot. So I was having I was having a cup of coffee with General Gatlin. And I said, said, General Gatlin, I got a question. This is some for a minute. I'm an officer, and I'm a pilot. I'm flying F fours out of Duluth. And I encounter and chase a UFO. Nobody else. I was up there by myself. No one else that was with saw the UFO. What do I do? How do I report it? He said, Well, when you get, you know, when you're finished your training flight or whatever the flight was. And you land, you go through your debrief on how the airplane flew, and it was, you know, did, you know, with these parameters meant whatever. Then you go to the old club, get two or three real stiff drinks, slam them down, go to your village and forget what you saw. Because in 1955, which was the timeframe that General Gatlin was pulling his first hand information from said, first of all, no one's going to believe you. And second of all, it's going to be a 201 file, which means you're a crackpot. And you've just, you've just destroyed your path to promotion. So I said, you ignore it. Said at one time we had operation blue book, but it was still, it would, it would tarnish your reputation. And you'd be viewed as a crackpot. Right. It's all fear tactics, fear based action. So you just, you just want to be as that. Yeah, you just forget what you saw and go from there. And General Gatlin said he chased a UFO over Lake Superior. You got now they were on alert at Duluth Air Force Base. The, they were flying F 94 C's shooting stars. Again, you know, Lockheed. Oh, even a skump works airplane, you know, from its very beginnings to P 80. And they were alerted to a high speed object flying over Lake Superior. Now Lake Superior is one of the largest bodies, one of the largest bodies of fresh water in the world. It's 1300 feet deep. And it's at the longest distance between short lines is almost 1000 miles, 940 some odd miles. You don't fly over Lake Superior on military commercial or private aircraft because Lake Superior creates its own wet weather. And you could take off on a bright sunny day. There's nothing out there. And all of a sudden you can get a thunderstorm that was right out of hell. With down drafts and lightning strikes or whatever. You don't want it. You don't want that to happen. So they're very, they're very cautious when they do go out over the central part of Lake Superior, but they went out there as fast as they could. And they're being controlled by friendly air force station, which is on the North Shore, Lake Superior. Just a, maybe 40 or 50 miles north of Duluth. And they're, they're, they're being vectored into, you know, tracking down this object and the guys at Finley said, well, it's heading towards us. And General Gamlin said I could, he could see it. It was just a ball. It was an orb, which had been seen all over the place late recently. So he went in, he went into afterburner and an F 94C can only be an afterburner about 90 seconds before you run out of fuel. So he's going as fast as he can. And every time his weapons systems operator would lock on with his radar, weapons radar, the weapons radar would die. And he'd be set to circuit breakers, try it again. Soon as they locked on, the thing would die. As this thing is heading towards Finley, Finley says, it just went right over us. But we don't have it. It's nowhere to be found. And General Gamlin says he's getting close enough where he can see the shore. He said, well, the reason why you don't have it on radar, it's directly above you. And the guys ran out of the geodesic dome, and they went running out to see what was there to see what's straight up visibility unlimited. And General Gamlin said he just kept going to his out of sight. And he said, you don't tell anybody. You know, he had a report that was an unknown. He never told him that it was a UFO, but it was an unknown object. And it was large enough and reflective enough to be tracked on radar. Yeah, I mean, that is another perfect example. I mean, and it's interesting. I wonder, you know, that was years ago. I wonder what the protocol is now if they still report the same way. Now, the protocol is now they, you know, they do have an avenue, you know, and that's, that's within the last three years, maybe four years that it's been okay to report UFO activities. Before that, you go to your public affairs officer and said, okay, and fill out a report. And that would go right into your two on one file, which means if you thought you're going to make Lieutenant Colonel on this cycle. You're not, it's never going to happen. Right. Because of what you just said. Right. Oh, it's, you know, you're fighting to, you're fighting two enemies. You're, you know, you're fighting the fact that this thing doesn't want to be seen very often, especially by the general public. And you're hamstrung by the ability that if you say something, you're going to be hamstrung. You're going to, you're going to ruin your career. And the secrecy is very ingrained in the, in the system of this stuff. And it's very enforced. And enforced mainly psychologically, like what you just said, like you'll ruin your reputations gone. You'll never be able to get a promotion. You'll never be able to advance in your career. You might lose your career. So the silence is kept mainly by that, by people that just don't want to say anything because that would ruin their life or their career. Or their reputation. Rather than even just, you know, and then they figure a lot of people aren't going to believe me anyway. If I try to say I saw all these UFOs and all these things. I mean, you're going to be ridiculed. You're going to be ridiculed. Right. You're a crackpot. And no one's going to take you seriously from that point forward. But the more people that speak out, the more people that start speaking out and talking, then people start saying, wait a second. And that's what we see happening now. It's actually the government that's the crackpot and not the guys. The tables are turning, right? Right. Right. I got to take a party break. Well, actually, we're going to go ahead and wrap this up anyway. Okay. Was that everything you wanted? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So if could you please thank you for joining us for one. Thank you. And could you please let people know how they can find your books where they can find your books and how they can follow you? I'm only on Facebook. Everybody said, well, how come you're not on Twitter and a bunch of other stuff? And I said, I piss off enough people on Facebook. I don't need any platform to piss anymore off. Right. But I'm on Facebook, but if you want my books, I have 29 books. I've written, wow, 27 of them are in print or have been in print. To a home, I just, my 29th book is at the publisher right now. And my 27th book, I'm waiting to get on an Ohio class SSGN. I have the ballistic missile ones covered, but I need the arsenal boat interiors and the differences between NASA's BN, which is your ballistic missile submarine and SSGN, which is your arsenal boat. They modified four of the early, you know, the first four Ohio boats and modified them into the arsenal boats. They carry 154 Tomahawk cruise missiles, plus they have two dry deck shelters on them. And they're just, they're a nasty war machine. And I'm just, I'm just waiting to get on. And they, they used to be an organization called, you know, they have something east. And it's, it is the public affairs office out of New York City that dealt with the print media. Well, just as of the beginning of this new fiscal year, they've eliminated that position. So I'm off to other other places to try to get on. I get on a arsenal boat to cover it. They can't say, well, they can't say it's sensitive. I said, I was on a ballistic missile submarine and went hydrogen bombs and I shot everything. And you now have a sub with tactical conventional warheads on it. You know, you can't give me this crap that it's all it's classified. No, it's not. You're just trying to protect your, your little kingdom or a little feist or five number, whatever. But my books are, if you go into Amazon and up at the top books by James C. Goodall, G-O-O-D-A-L, just like it sounds, or Jim Goodall. And I've used both names. But James C. Goodall, you'll find all my hardbound books, which is my books on the blackboard on the B2. My 75 years of Lockheed skunk works. And, and I have my submarine books and it shows all, you know, most of my other books. But I have 29 books with my name on the front cover. Very proud of it. I hated term papers in school. And what happens, I end up being a published author, not just. Well, whenever it interests you, it's different. Yeah, you know, 29 books. Right. Well, that's great. Thank you so much for joining us today. You're a wealth of knowledge. I love your stories. You know, we're not going to get these stories about Bob Lazar and John Lear and Ben Rich from anyone else. And it's good to, just like Native American lore and legend and knowledge, you know, if we don't, if they stop telling those stories, the knowledge dies. So, right. So it's great that you're sharing these stories and we're getting the inside scoop and we're learning, you know, what really happened behind the scenes in certain scenarios. So thank you for doing that. Thank you for joining us. We really appreciate your time. It's my pleasure. I'll do it anytime. I'm retired. So I have a lot of free time. The wife is really good about, you know, let me hang out in front of my computer. And see, well, you're on there way too much. I said, Jesus, that arrow hang out in a bar. This way, you know, exactly where I'm at and more than likely I'm either talking with someone about UFOs. I'm doing something about airplanes ships or submarine. So it's. Right. That's awesome. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. And thank you guys for tuning in. We love you all. Don't forget day passes are available for the conference. Come hang out with us. We would love to see you there. And you can get those journey to journey to truth, con.com. Have a great evening, everyone. We love you and good night. You take care. And thanks for the invite. There was a CIA director named William Colby, who in the 1980s said, we'll know our disinformation campaigns are successful. When everything the American people believe is fake. When we realize how powerful we are when we set our intentions and we realize that we aren't just this. We are just these multidimensional light beings. And time is an illusion. And, you know, it's everything's a perception. Then you can go forward and backwards and embody it and just pop out and go and do this work. You can do amazing things when we set the right intentions to do it. And I said, this is us on this plane. You know, that's what this is. We're going to the moon. And you say this thing is a lot older than you think it is. We've been going to the moon a long time. But I wrote on it. I knew that we went to the moon. And so I always knew there was a base on the moon from a young age. And our DNA is a complex recording system of the history of the entire universe. The history, you know, of everything. Not just this timeline that we know, but multiple timelines of reality. There are a total of nine different categories of planets in the universe. We people on earth, we are living on category one planet, like elementary school students. And the students, they're living on category nine planet, like college professors. So they have been really guiding us throughout history. Tell them, let us know that this facility under the Sandia Mountain is considered an information station for interstellar travelers coming to the planet. They tell us that their facility was retrofitted into the ancient tunnel system that already existed. And as far as the bending the space time continuum, I've had something like that happen. And what seemed like about a five minute encounter has been four and a half hours. A missing time. And I was completely conscious. And what are you dealing with? Type three, type four, type five civilizations that can work with the different coexisting timelines. All bets are off. Every time we have Bigfoot activity out there, we're having ETS and orbs and stuff like that. We have a lot of the stuff documented. As a matter of fact, I'm a member of three different teams, and I work with people from all over the country out in the field. And we actually have documented a portal, something that we consider to be a portal opening, and we sent two of our team members inside of it and disappeared and then came back out. I would suggest that we take it one step further and say humanity has never known who we are. We've always been in the thought control matrix, and one step further, perhaps we could say that we're in a consciously controlled state of hypnosis. In other words, are the thought control matrix creators constantly bombarding us with frequencies that keep us from being telepathic, that keep us from remembering who we are? The thought control matrix was set up, and we have never known our potential, our power, our beauty, our incredible connection. It makes no sense at all. There is no reason for it other than the programming that we've received for generations because it's all about order. It's all about listen to your elders, listen to the teachers, listen to the adults, listen, listen, listen. And what that does is it dims the light of the child, and it makes them feel like they don't have a voice. And why that's designed that way by the dark side and that's in the system is so that they grow up and they just listen and they do what they're told and they're good little boys and good little girls, and they lose their sense of self. They lose their north, their true north. So many adults are walking around in this world. They don't know who they are. So the planet itself is now beginning to split. It's beginning to divide again into a higher vibrational earth and a lower vibrational earth. And the race of man is dividing with it, and we're becoming less and less aware of one another. And over time, what will happen and I don't know how long this will be, one world will have all higher vibrational beings on it and the other one will all be third dimensional beings, and we will not perceive each other anymore. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC]