Columbia House Party

Yellowcard's Ode to Disbelevers

In the latest episode of Columbia House Party, hosts Jake Goldsbie and Blake Murphy are joined by Chris Cresswell (@crustcrustwell) of The Flatliners (@theflatliners) and more to discuss one of his major influences, Gob’s 1998 album How Far Shallow Takes You. Find out more about the path Gob paved for a generation of Canadian punks, what changed in their sound with each successive album, and whether any of the guys followed in their footsteps from a hair – or bug-eating – perspective on this week’s podcast.

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Duration:: 56m
Broadcast on:: 22 Jul 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

It's time for today's Lucky Land horoscope with Victoria Cash. Life's gotten mundane, so shake up the daily routine and be adventurous with a trip to Lucky Land. You know what they say. Your chance to win starts with a spin. So go to luckylandslots.com to play over 100 social casino style games for free for your chance to redeem some serious prizes. Get lucky today at luckylandslots.com. No purchase necessary. The VCW group void were prohibited by law, 18 plus, terms of condition supply. I think I'm breaking out. I'm gonna leave you now. There's nothing for me here. It's another episode of Columbia House Party. Jake, what's up? Not much, man. How are you? Good. I know that one sounded like I just dropped the lyric and said it's another episode of Columbia House Party. But no, that flows into another lyric. No, it fits. Yeah, I was singing it. I actually had to take a minute because I was singing it in my head. So I couldn't speak at the same time. So I'm into it. Yeah. Are you ready to talk about the Jacksonville Jaguars? Because we're going to talk about the Jacksonville Jaguars in this podcast. And I'm very excited. All they need is an offensive defense and some real changes. Yeah. Bortles. We're going to talk Jaguars today. Weird as that might seem. I would have more to say if we were doing this podcast like six years ago. So I'll try to keep up. I'll see what I can do. We're going to the American pop-punk pantheon. And to do so, we have to get on a flight to the Randy Macho Man Savage non-international airport in Jacksonville, Florida. If you know your good place references. That, of course, is the home of my Jacksonville Jaguars who, by the way, I am going somewhere with this. I got into because I first got into football via the Madden video games in the early 2000s. And if you're a Madden player around that time, you may remember the Mark Brunel, Fred Taylor, Jimmy Smith combo and the cool teal jerseys that made the Jaguars an attractive Madden team, you may have also, if you were playing Madden around that time, heard this week's band while you were playing. So while we're talking about places with only one fan, like the Jacksonville Jaguars and myself, we're going to talk about an artist that has many more than that. And yes, today's band is truly from Jacksonville, Florida, not as the name of this album might suggest, California, that doesn't make the album any less sunny or any less a pillar of the early 2000s scene, complete with an online following, warp to appearances and a something corporate tie in. Today, we're discussing the Kings of Violin Punk and their 2003 album Ocean Avenue, Yellow Punk. [Music] We could hide inside ourselves, lead the world to hide, make the leads, there's something left to find, we'll be round apart, I'll keep you deep inside, you're always in my heart. I need you now, we're miles apart, I'll keep you deep inside, you're always in my heart. I need you now, we're miles apart, I'll keep you deep inside, you're always in my heart. So Jake, obviously this podcast is in audio form only, I thought for the first time that we should have a video component to this one just because the number of times I'm going to be air violining and it's probably quite a sight to see, I feel like that will add a new Patreon tier that's basically my only fans, you get access to my Raptors off season salary cap spreadsheets and me air violining throughout this podcast, are you on board with that? You'll still get a cut but you don't have to contribute. I'm always down for things that I don't have to do anything for but I still get a cut with. Alright, Jake, that was miles apart off the ocean avenue by yellow card which we're talking about today. Jake, what do you got for us on yellow card? How do you feel about yellow card? I know you framed this over email as we were plotting out this section of albums as more of a Blake album but I'm sure you, it would be impossible to not have yellow card opinions or memories from sometime around 2003. Very true. Like you very much tied to the Madden franchise, I don't know if you remember but in the old Madden games in franchise mode you had like practices, we had to do the drills to improve your player's stats. That was so annoying. My friend and I used to do, because you could do like two player franchises, so we do franchises against each other and I just have memories of like watching my friend do drills while a song that we haven't talked about yet played. I actually quite genuinely like that song but I can't hear it without seeing like that passing cone device. It's just like I hate that thing man. But it's just like that that is just burned into my brain. It's like that with like feeling this by blank which I think was called action at the time. Yeah, because the the captain, I think it's Captain America, the get ready for action at the start. Yeah. I think you're right. I'm not going to say that I have like any personal or deep connection to this band. I think this band is fine. I do think that this band is a huge miss like just a lot of mispotential here. Yeah, so we'll get into that a little bit after and I want to say here, Jake. I mean a frequent thing on this podcast is me asking you not to minimize your own feelings or your own opinions. But I feel like you should not minimize something like a memory playing Madden with your friend and being reminded about this song as a connection to it because I think you know as much as maybe people don't think, oh yeah, football related to pop punk like the fact that a lot of these songs like dance, dance from follow boy or yellow card got on or gob got on these soundtracks. I really appreciate like I've never been a video game person, but I've always played a lot of sports video games. And like you and your friend, I was more of a franchise mode guy than like a my career or anything like that. And I would, you know, I'd be hanging out with friends and we were doing we would call doing simmies where you're just like simulating season after season and yeah, going head to head and like the free agent market and stuff. And you know, the fact that some of my music got the play while we were doing that was amazing. So I think that totally counts as a connection to this. Yeah, fair enough. Eyes me like after other than that, I have nothing to like this is the most I've listened to yellow card in my life. Right. I get that. And so you would frame this as a Blake album in our emails. And I don't know that that's necessarily the case album wise to be completely honest. I had to go back and lay kind of four albums over this stretch of time out and be like, okay, which song was on which album like my association with yellow card was not the ocean Avenue album. It was all of the yellow card singles. They were more of a singles band for me as it turns out. Most of the good ones are on this album anyway. So we're okay. Yeah. I also found that actually. Yeah. Like other than lights and sounds, I don't know if I could name I don't know if I could name another one other than lights and sounds to be honest. Yeah. Most of them were concentrated on this album, even though only three of them were actual singles. Another wrinkle I want to highlight here and maybe, you know, maybe our experience with yellow card being mostly a band you pull one, one or two songs out of time from is maybe that was felt across lots of people. And maybe that's why they never quite capitalized on the ocean Avenue momentum. I'm not sure. But a wrinkle here that I found at least in trying to like, you know, when we prep these episodes, I try to find like, Hey, is there an essay on how this album held up or the influence it had? Or, you know, I search my Twitter and see if anyone that I follow has tweeted about this band in the last couple of years and I have found that yellow card is maybe a band without a major advocacy behind it and it's pretty rare from the scene where like we had Taylor on to talk about all American rejects. My friend Heather could come on and do the starting line. I could do cartel. Like everyone seems to have bands like that from this era that they hold in higher regard than others maybe or like that's my band from the scene. And I have to ask, where are the yellow card stands? I could be wrong by believe that our friends Sarah Finley and Drew Fair Service are big yellow card stands. I could be wrong. No, there's no way Drew means that earnestly. I'm not sure. I think he might, but I guess we'll find out well, I guess we'll find out if he listens to our show on this album because he doesn't say anything. But if he does listen to the show, I guess we'll find out. Yeah. Maybe we will. Anyway, the comparison that I came up with for yellow card being well liked and well remembered, but not having stands. Are they the Paul George of pop punk? Just like everything is there, but just can't couldn't get it done. The things are there. Everyone agrees they're good, but no one's buying Paul George's signature shoe, even though it's a really comfortable shoe. I've played it. It actually looks really nice. Yeah, it's the biggest gap between quality of shoe and like the amount you like I hear of people talk about wearing the kairis all the time and obviously Kyrie has a bigger gravity of personality and more of like a marketable style of game. But like, like if you talk bad about any NBA player online, someone will yell you. I don't know that that exists for Paul George. Everyone loves it when Paul George fucks up and he brought it on himself too, but this is a whole other segment. But anyway, I do think though there's a comparison there because I do think that yellow card are the Paul George of pop punk in the sense that like, there's so much potential with yellow card and all I can hear is missed opportunity. Yeah, we're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about Ocean Avenue after this. I'm Victoria Cash. Thanks for calling the Lucky Land Hotline. If you feel like you do the same thing every day, press 1. If you're ready to have some serious fun. For the chance to redeem some serious prizes, press 2. We heard you loud and clear. So go to luckylandslots.com right now and play over a hundred social casino style games for free. Get lucky today at luckylandslots.com. No purchase necessary, VGW group void rep prohibited by law 18 plus terms of condition supply. All right, so quick band background, maybe not that quick. They have an interesting starting of sorts. For the footy fans who are listening, yes, the name yellow card comes from a yellow card in soccer. Although in their case, it's what they'd call friends out on if they made party fouls when they were all together in high school in Jacksonville. So instead of yelling party foul or, you know, punching your buddy or whatever, they would say yellow card. So there you go. In it, in it made yellow card. Yeah. Yeah. Absolute scenes madness at these parties in Jacksonville. Donkey Doug was there all sorts of good stuff. Okay. So we'll go to stupid next wing dump yellow card was originally a five piece with guest vocals from a sixth member and guest violining at times from Sean Mackin. Mackin would eventually become the only person who was in the band from their official start in 1997 all the way through when they called the quits in 2017. That five piece also did not include Ryan Key, the singer who'd eventually become as synonymous with the band as the violin. Previously, he had only worked as that guest vocalist who would help out sometimes. He eventually, after the first album actually replaced Ben Dobson, that album where we stand was actually a bit more on like the punk or hardcore side than pop punk. Ryan Key obviously has, you know, kind of the cookie cutter pop punk vocals and that that led them that way as well as incorporating back in on violin as a full time member of the band. There are a few other lineup changes at this point in the band because they were teenagers and they were trying to figure out are we a serious band and who wants to actually try to make this a thing. So some early turnover, Ryan Key gets installed as the lead singer after one album and that's kind of where for the purposes of discussion from here, I'm not sure how much people will care about the tweaks to guitar and bass and stuff like that. We'll mention them where possible. But the big thing is Ryan Key and Sean Mackin get locked in as lead vocals and violin respectively and that's where kind of the yellow card sound gets locked in. They released the still standing EP in the year 2000, then moved to lobster records to release one for the kids in 2001. If you go back and listen to one for the kids, it's still pretty unrefined. They're still figuring themselves out a little bit. A couple of the tracks skew probably too far toward Ryan Key, you know, figuring out if he could do more of an emo sound and figuring out exactly where the violin fits in a pop punk aesthetic. This song though, Sure Shot kind of gives you the best example off one for the kids where they were heading going into their next album, which would be Ocean Avenue. This is Sure Shot. Get up, face this day, Find some way to facelink this day. When you say face your morals and say you're a young man who's waiting for it to. When from before, never do what you told, To all what I'd feel is a rich born. So I say, I got a Sure Shot rate to work things out. All of these growing up as one new town, I got a Sure Shot rate to kill your doubts. Right what you're following and chasing down. Gee, with the way that one sounds, could you guess it was a yellow card? Yeah, I like that song. There are a couple of good songs on that album, Big Apple Heartbreaks, another one, and there is a very emo song that I'm drawing a blank on that I don't think they hit the mark on, but I'm curious if Ryan Key had spun off that point and done something solo, is that where they would have gone. But you hear it there, this mix of we have a more standard punk guitar and drum approach and then we have this violin which gives us a unique sound and then Ryan Key, while he shouts at times is, you know, his melodies are very, very pop punk, which kind of is the formula here. They then moved to Fuel by Ramen to release the underdog EP in 2002 and it was around this time, kind of their pop punk sound struck a chord, right? They had these hooks, they had these good choruses, they had kind of, even though they were based in Jacksonville, Florida, they had kind of this SoCal pop punk sound that was coming out. They toured with Rise Against and the Mad Caddies, all of that leads to them signing with capital records who were, at this point, this is 2002, were scooping up basically every pop punk band that they could sign to just see what would stick and what they could throw out there. So Ocean Avenue would represent their major label debut in 2003. Weirdly, they didn't release a single until the album had been out for a couple months, which is especially weird because they were playing at Warp Tour around the time the album came out. I don't know what the logic was there, Jake maybe just waiting post Warp Tour to get a video together, I'm not sure. Yeah, especially like the power that MTV and much music had at this time, not have, and especially for a song that like is good, like weird that they didn't lead with a video. It's a very odd choice that I don't, I also obviously don't have an answer for it. But I also don't understand it at all. Yeah, it's a weird one and maybe there was something missing in my research and maybe Yellow Card's one of those bands that isn't particularly well documented from this time and there was an explanation, but I couldn't find it. The single they eventually released as the first single also happens to be the album opener, it is probably up there in terms of best pop punk album openers as far as like, this is what we sound like, this is what you're getting, strap in, and Jake, it's also your favorite song on the album. And it's my Madden song. This is Way Away. I think I'm breaking out, I'm gonna leave you now, there's nothing for me here, it's all there, and even though I know that everything I go, go down hill from here, I'm not afraid, Way away away from here I'll be here, Way away away from who can see, how it feels to be alone and not believe, not to seem to be alone and not to see anything. Great song. Yeah, could you throw like an eight yard out to a tight end right now? Oh hell yeah, load up with, I don't even know who, Rich Ganon maybe, Rich Ganon, oh my, are you a Raiders guy? I was, I have no allegiance to anything now. I'm my elite, my football users to my fantasy team. And that's it. Yeah, I'm not, you know, I got my jags, portals. Okay, so there's your Madden song, and that is like, I don't want to assume everyone has listened to every episode of this, but if you went back to our Jimmy World episode way back when, you would have heard us talk about how songs like The Middle and Sweetness kind of hit this maybe need in the moment for some of the emerging, like obviously there was some very, there was some darker emo stuff and some darker pop, pop stuff coming out. And there was the Is Your Kid an emo concern, but also like a fair number of the bands that broke through had kind of a layer of positivity. And yellow card hit that at times and Way away is basically, you know, it could be a Toronto Raptors song where it's like an owed to the disbelievers as they called it. It's like a, it basically functions as a history of the band as they move out to Los Angeles to try to see if they can make this all work. And there's like a little bit of raw, raw to it that, you know, wasn't for everyone at the time. And there are songs on this album where I feel like it gets a little too, it goes a little too far that direction. Yeah. And as far as a lead single and a song as good as this, it lines up pretty well. Like it's, that's the, that's what you want to lead with off of this album, even though the title track was, you know, would end up being a little bigger, but like also this song and the title track as the sort of two, I guess bigger songs, you could say off this record, at least I said the Madden play and obviously Ocean Avenue is Ocean Avenue neither of them really lean into that like, rah, rah idea. And it's interesting. They're kind of the two best songs. Yeah. I mean, way, way does a little bit like if you, if you listen closely, it's kind of about the like, we're going to do this and yeah, I guess get behind us or get out of the way kind of thing. Yeah. It's a, so I guess the other question with way, way off the top and the title track, Ocean Avenue coming third is what do you think of the album sequencing here? Because I know. Oh, it's so cool. But at times, yeah, so that's what I was going to say and like this, because I think breathing is a really good song too. And that's the second track. So you have kind of the three best songs on the album, not kind of, I think the three best songs of the album, other than maybe miles apart coming off right off the top. And I don't know, is that like, is that kind of the last vestige of the CD era where you have to hook people in via the singles and you go back to back to back with singles off the top? What do you think in terms of that? Like, did you, do you like it or did that play into the fact that, you know, for both of us, admittedly yellow card was more of a singles band. And it's because you could fire up the first 15 minutes of the album and get the songs you wanted to hear. Yeah. I definitely agree with you that it's a relic of the era of the CD era for sure. I don't know. Like now I feel different about it now that I think I would have when it came out because back then, all we knew were like CDs and like, and like, every three players were just showing up. Shuffle was kind of weird. So like, for the most part, we listened to album's front to back and, but back then you were just like, it was just like, how albums were I was like, oh, of course the singles in the first five songs and that's what I want us to anyway. And then maybe the rest is good too. Whereas now when I found going back to listen to this, I agree with you, the first three tracks are absolutely the best three tracks in the record. And I think they are like genuinely really good. But then like, I just kind of lost interest by the end with, and like, like, and the way it's sequenced to that like having miles apart there, what is it, sixth? It's like, okay. And then that song came and I was like, oh, okay. And then you go back to like, until like inside out and like there's, it kind of kicks back in and then like back homes, okay, to finish it off. And it's just, I do think it's oddly sequence and it just like loses all the momentum. But now I don't think it's that bad because now I can listen to those first three tracks but like this rules and then go listen to something else and be fine. Yes. And that, I mean, that would probably play into the problem further if you're talking like a success standpoint, but as a listener, it lines up just fine. It's, it's not the worst thing in the world. And I do think there's an element of like, how I think of album structuring now is maybe not fair to some of the albums from then because like that you did have to hook people in with the CD. For sure. Although then if you trace, if you trace it back further than that, like on vinyl, you wanted to have a good balance because you didn't want people to only listen to one side or whatever. Anyway, if we're getting to to bog down in that this is the next single by the way, which is the third track on the album. It is the title track, Ocean Avenue. There's a place of Ocean Avenue where I used to sit and talk with you. We were both 16 and it felt so right, sleeping all day, staying up all night. There's a place on the corner, a cherry street, we would walk on the beach and not bedbeat. We were both 18 and it felt so right, sleeping all day, staying up all night. If I could find you now, things would get better, we can leave this town and run forever. I know somewhere, somewhere we'll be together, let your waves try to go, don't be and take me away, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Jake, the one thing that I think starting with Wayaway first of all, but going Wayaway Breathing Ocean Avenue off the top, one of the things I think it does before we get into talking about Ocean Avenue as a track on its own, is it does create, I guess, a sense of urgency early in the album. It's three pretty high adrenaline songs with a good tempo. I think that helps songs that are fairly basic lyrically play up a little bit. And then Mackin's violin work, which already makes the yellow card stand out because not very many bands were using instruments in the violin family and their pop punk. But I think it adds like a third layer of tempo where, like I said earlier, you have the punk and drums that are rooted in punk and borderline hardcore times, you have this traditional melodic pop punk singer and then the violin just kind of like, especially when it comes in early in songs or in bridges, it just, to me, it adds, and maybe urgency's not the right word. But that's what it does for me, I think, and I think that's pretty present on Wayaway and especially on Ocean Avenue, that that's what makes yellow card different when they're at their best, is like what the violin adds to these otherwise, like, fairly up tempo, but not particularly out of the ordinary pop punk songs. Do you think that's a fair evaluation of how the violin plays up for them? I do, and I think the way they use the violin both highlights everything I like about this band and everything that frustrates me about this band, because, like, to your point, when they're at their best, the band kind of sounds like Owen palette being backed by Blink-1/82 and that is absolutely a compliment, and, like, I think it is really cool and really unique sounding, but at the same time, the way they use or don't use the violin in a lot of these songs sort of highlights that mispotential I was alluding to earlier, because I feel like in a lot of cases, not every case because it doesn't apply to every song, but I feel like in a lot of cases, I just don't like how they use the violin and I recognize that it's tough to do, because when I think about a band like Murder by Death, who also incorporates strings full-time, who have a cello, obviously very different form of music, but you'll see where I'm going with this. Like a cello is like a rhythm section instrument. It can lead a song, it's got that big, heavy, lower bass sound, whereas a violin is very much like a lead guitar kind of instrument, where it's not going to be like your bass of your song, and I think that does lead to challenges of, like, how do we use the violin that doesn't just sound like another guitar, and they do that a couple times and when they don't use the violin that way, like on the chorus of Ocean Avenue or in sort of the verses or a pre-verse, or whatever you want to call it, of Life of a Salesman, it works so well, and you're right, it does differentiate them from a lot of other bands at this time that just sounded like the song Ocean Avenue without a violin, and I don't know, it frustrates me because like, there was so very clearly something there that was just never, and maybe it couldn't work fully, I don't know, but I just wish there was more. Also I blame the fact, and this is from the Ocean Avenue music video, that it is impossible to look cool doing punk jumps while playing a violin. That might be part of it for sure. To me, what the use of the violin when it works here makes me think is that, do you remember Ashley McKisick? Of course, I'm Canadian. Okay. Yeah, I mean, just making sure, like, I really wish we could run back Ashley McKisick's career and put him as a fiddler in some like, punkier bands and maybe even like, I mean, he was pretty badass on the fiddle, and I feel like that would add a nice element here in a way that yellow card never consistently, consistently grabbed, and you know, McKisick would skew a little heavier. Yeah, I also think to your point though, and I do credit yellow card for this, the ability to integrate a violin into this kind of music and not turn into a Celtic sounding band. Very impressive. Yeah. So obviously Ocean Avenue is this enormous success, the fact that it made them stand out among what was becoming a pretty saturated pop punk scene at that point, made them hugely successful for a minute. It was the album's second single and biggest success. It went two times platinum as a single, made big shiny tunes nine. It also hit number one on TRL and number 37 on the Billboard Hot 100. Basically, it's the song that launched them, and you mentioned the punk jumps playing the violin in the video. Also the video is a take on Run Lola Run, where he keeps waking up in the same spot after going through the window. Oh, yeah. It is a good video. Other than the punk jumps. Now, this is time for me to share personally again. Apologies. Never. James. Actually, let me ask you a question first. Did you think that this song, Ocean Avenue, was about the Ocean Avenue in LA where the band had moved and which the song Way Away is about moving to 100%? It is about where they hung out in Jacksonville. Yeah, I absolutely believed it was a California thing. Yeah, at least that's according to what I found online. Apparently, there is an Ocean Avenue in Jacksonville as well, which I didn't know when I last went to Los Angeles. I shouldn't say last went to Los Angeles. I've only been to Los Angeles once. It was for work maybe two years ago. And you know, I played this shit as I walked from Venice Beach to Santa Monica and then to the actual Ocean Avenue right as the sunset got some beautiful pictures that if I had a woman with me would have looked like the album cover. And I have this nice fond memory of listening to yellow card as I go visit Ocean Avenue. And I find out as I'm prepping for this podcast that according to the internet, it's about where they hung out in Jacksonville, not where I visited in LA. Oops, whoopsie, how well, yeah, that's tough. Also, when I was in LA, I stayed near Staples Center, which is not a great place to stay. I got an Airbnb there. And so I ubered out to Venice Beach and then I walked to Santa Monica, which is this really long walk. It took me a good chunk of time, but it was beautiful. And then I had to Uber back and at that point, because the sun had said it was like L.A. drive time traffic and always at the best of times. As I walked from Venice Beach to Santa Monica, I found myself progressively thinking how nice it would be to live in LA. And by the time I got out of that Uber, I no longer wanted to ever come back to LA. That's basically the story of going to LA. Yeah. So there was a third single off of this album. You know, the little later in the album, you get miles apart, which we played earlier. And only one back to back, only ones kind of their shot at a ballad and was the third single. They also, and I think that this is, you know, maybe to your point earlier about how the violin stuff didn't always work, but also like cutting off your nose to spite your face a little bit. They cut the violin solo in the bridge of this song for the radio and video version, because the original song was a little too long. And I feel like if you're a yellow card and you've just had these two pretty good singles, maybe one monster single, where everyone's like, Oh my God, this band uses the violin. So cool. Don't cut the violin solo from your third single. Anyway, this is they should never, they should never cut the violin solo. This is a, this is only one I feel so broken and I can't, I can't pick up the pieces and I've thrown my words all around, but I can't, I can't give you a reason, I feel so broken and I give up, I feel so broken and I feel so broken and I feel so broken and I feel so broken and I feel so broken. I feel so broken and I feel so broken and I feel so broken and I feel so broken and I feel so broken and I feel so broken and I feel so broken. So I prefer the more like upbeat yellow card songs and I think that's part of because they play better with, you could make a good like sad pop punk song or emo song with a violin. I don't think that is it and I don't know if it's just like I prefer Ryan key singing at a more up tempo than a softer one, but I wasn't alone. It kind of not killed their momentum, but it certainly did not build off of the momentum that way away and Ocean Avenue had picked up for them. Jake, do you remember that single at all, like was that one of the ones in your head when you came back to this, you were like, oh yeah, that song? No, kind of. I mean, it definitely didn't like, if you were to ask me what songs you think of when you think about yellow card, it wouldn't be in the first three I say, but when I heard the chorus of the song, I was like, oh, okay, I've heard this song before, but like it never moved the needle for me, really. I've literally heard it before is what I would say. Yeah, they, it's also apparently the first time they'd ever like built a track in the studio and it's not like, it's not a bad song, like it's a nice breakup songs go. It's like, it comes at it from a nice place, but I don't know, it just, it didn't quite click for me at the time and and going back to it, it didn't quite click. And I think at the time, like I really want, I really thought miles apart should be the next single. I agree. I think like clearly the next best song, if you don't want to go with breathing to have like three songs that are fairly similar, right, right as your first three single. Anyway, the rest of the album, Jake, there are some good songs. There are some songs that don't hit quite as well. And I think there are a couple spots where like that earnestness and rah rahness I talked about earlier and I don't mean rahness, I mean like rah rah gets to me a little bit and you know, the song 23 is kind of like that. And then like life of a salesman, hey, no disrespect to anyone who has a great relationship with their father or looks up to them. But that is basically like the daddy's number one candy baby of a song, if you know your succession memes. Yeah, that song, I, this is the worst comparison, but the way he throws in dad after every line, all I can hear is Connor for reals equal right song where he keeps throwing in not gay. And that's just like, I know it's like, yeah, exactly. And it's all I can hear because my brain is a trash heap, but all I can hear is every time he says dad is Connor for real, but that's just, I think that's probably literally only my problem. Yeah, maybe. I mean, it's not, it's not the best ad lib, I guess you would call it if we're boring a hip hop term elsewhere on the album, Jake, do you have any thoughts on any of the other individual songs before I close out the album with an embarrassing personal story? Oh, I don't want to waste any time before an embarrassing personal story. But I know I think that back home is a pretty back home is an interesting song. I think in the sense that it, I think it's a perfectly fine closer, but I also think it's there was like a template almost for like early 2000s pop punk album closers. And this follows it to a T. It's like kind of an themic, but not that an themic. And it just, it's a kind of album that really, not really cut out this kind of song. It just like feels like an album that like I would have found in like the recommendation section of a music store or something, because if you like this, you're like this. And then been like, I'm 15 sure. And it just like, and I don't mean that in a negative way at all. But it just, it absolutely, that song for some reason to me more so even than like the title track, that song, it's like, this is an album from 2003. The song that proceeds back home as you get to the end of the album is called One Year, six months, the embarrassing personal story that I will share is that I have in my life written two songs. What? One of them. Are we not counting the blink away to musical? I haven't written that yet. Also those will just be blink when I eat two songs. True, true. Fair point. One of those songs, I wrote these both in high school and keep in mind that I have no musical talent. I did not have an inch. Well, I had an instrument, but I wasn't very good at playing it and I can not sing. I wrote a song that was basically this song, but it was just six months instead of one year, six months for a shorter relationship. I shouldn't be sharing this. It is so embarrassing that I basically just ripped, of all the things to rip off. I love that. One of the lesser songs on a yellow card album was where I borrowed from. I don't think it was conscious borrowing. I think it just ended up being very much like that song. Anyway, you guys, while you try to recover any respect you have left for me, you do that. We're going to take a break. We'll be right back to talk about how Ocean Avenue was received after this. With the Lucky Land Sluts, you can get lucky just about anywhere. This is your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the weather is fine, but we're just going to circle up here a while and get lucky. Oh, no, nothing like that. It's just these cash prizes that up quick. So I suggest you sit back, keep your tray table upright and start getting lucky. Play for free at Luckylandsluts.com. Are you feeling lucky? No purchase necessary. BGW can avoid were prohibited by law 18 plus terms and conditions apply. So right around the release of this album, yellow card was at Warped Tour. One year later, they're playing the main stage at Warped Tour. That's how big this happened for yellow card and how quickly. Ocean Avenue, the album debuted at number 99 on the Billboard chart. It peaked at number 23 and went platinum. It was so popular that they released the acoustic version of it in 2013 as well. Really? Yeah, it's on Spotify. Go check it out. I thought about playing one of the acoustic versions earlier, but none of them are as good as the main versions, unfortunately. That's fair. The ratings were all over the place for this one. You can find ratings that gave it like nothing and ratings that gave it almost a perfect rating. I think because there was a mix at the time of like, okay, the pop punk scene is getting really saturated and these guys are very much on the pop side of the pop punk spectrum. But then also people who are like, oh yeah, pop punk is having a moment for a reason. And also these guys throw a violin at it and Ocean Avenue and Wayaway are two of the best songs that this explosion has produced. Despite ratings being all over the place at the time, like I said, the album went platinum. Rock Sound included it in its 51 most essential pop punk albums, billboards, 100 greatest choruses of the 21st century included Ocean Avenue, and as we teed up, it got heavy video game usage. We're talking Madden, SSX, flat out, burn out, and it was used on MTV, Real World, Road Rules Challenge, the challenge. I hope I said that show name right because I know people who like the challenge are very, very hardcore. And I don't want to say I believe it's Real World, Road Rules, the challenge, right? Yes. They also contributed to Jake, the Spider-Man 2 soundtrack, which you may remember us discussing in our Dashboard confessional episode, Yellow Card also contributed to Rock Against Bush volume two. So Yellow Card using that newfound popularity to get their hands in all over the place. Unfortunately, they also toured Ocean Avenue for like two years and then decided to take some time off. Ryan Key has said that the success kind of went to their heads. There was some additional turnover in the band and things didn't sound like they were in the best of places, which if you are a pop punk band that got big in 2003 and you do not follow that with an almost immediate follow up album. In retrospect, big risk and to your earlier point about Yellow Card Jake probably missed opportunity. Eventually, they would come out with Lights and Sounds in 2006, which is they, it got described as like a light concept album because it basically flips Ocean Avenue around where Ocean Avenue is a lot about moving out to LA to try to make it Lights and Sound is kind of about how they did not like that as much. It was not a strong follow up in terms of success or if you go back and listen to it outside of the title track Lights and Sounds, which was also the lead single and hit number four on the Billboard rock chart. It didn't live up to Ocean Avenue. To give them credit though, Lights and Sounds is a pretty good track and this is it. [MUSIC] Hello you, how was the rest? You made it through, but nevertheless, I got you out on a wire. You be loving, I'll be a liar. So, let's take a look at it. [MUSIC] Hello you, how was the rest? You made it through, but nevertheless, I got you out on a wire. You be loving, I'll be a liar. So, let's go. I'm gonna go back and see you. I'm gonna go back and see you. You're gonna be a bit of a pop punk band. I'm gonna go back and see you. I'm gonna go back and see you. I'm gonna go back and see you. Hello you, how was the rest? You made it through, but nevertheless, I got you out on a wire. You be loving, I'll be a liar. So, let's go. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] Jake, did you listen to much yellow card post Ocean Avenue? I know you said you were mostly a singles guy and they ended up being on Ocean Avenue, but was lights and sounds like did anything from that era of the band get through to you? Just that I knew that song probably through airplay, but I've never listened to that album, but I do think you raised a good point that I never thought about or heard articulated before in the sense that to be a successful pop punk band in this era, you have to have an immediate hit record ready to go basically. I would save the point, you need to have an album where I get confused about which of your big songs or on which of the two albums. Right. Fall of Boys, a great example of that, where like there's a bunch of songs on Infinity on High and even actually on Take This Year Grave that I thought were on Cork Tree and Vice versa, but you were right at that time because everything was so, as short attention spans as we have now, the way that much music and MTV worked, you had to do it. And beyond there all the time, like there was no room for like, let's listen, Ocean Avenue again, like you had to have a new one. Yeah, it's, you more or less got to do it, right? I don't know. Missed opportunity. And I know your opinion about their missed opportunity is more about like the band construction and their sound. Right. Like it's not like I'm talking and you're agreeing with the missed opportunity commercially. Can you build off your point a little bit about where you think the missed opportunity here is sound wise? I just think they could have gone further with it, like listening to, and like I, maybe they did. I will, I will preface this by saying I have not listened to their later album, their later music. So maybe they tried this, but at least on Ocean Avenue itself, which is what we're talking about today, I feel like there are moments where like I said, they sound like Owen Palette with Linkway any two, but I feel like that should have been in every song, not that every song should sound the same or necessarily have to be upbeat, but like there's a lot of times where the violin is just doing what the guitar is doing, where there's a lot of time the violin is like buried in the mix even or not even featured on the song. Like you said, they were cutting violin solo subtract, like lean into it. I get you don't want to be a gimmick band. And like I know that was kind of a criticism level against them at the time. And like I understand that, but like, I don't know, I feel like they should have leaned in and like violence should be all over it. Like it's like poochy, like when the violence that they're having to be saying, where's the violin? I feel like they should just like lean into it more and be like, yo, we're the pop punk band that has like long violin solos over our versus like, that's cool. Like it's not cool, but it's cool. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, it's also different, which like when you're operating within a pretty saturated market at that and I, you know, I'm skewing toward like suggesting they had been like not done what they want to do musically and be more like cynical about like how do we stand like make the music you want first and foremost. But yeah, I do think that leaning into a little bit of what made them unique and what made them successful probably would have sustained that success a little bit. Yeah, I think I think that's a better way of articulating the point I'm trying to make. So Jake, oh yeah, we should wrap up from there. So lights and sound was not particularly successful and then Ryan Key started dealing with some vocal issues. He wasn't able to talk or sing for a while. Eventually they were able to now why after Ocean Avenue, they waited three years for lights and sounds and then after lights and sounds despite Ryan Key's vocal issues paper walls came out in 2007. I don't know how that all lined up the way it did, but I would have reversed the order of those things. They did take a hiatus after paper walls and then they released four albums from 2003 to 2016. I don't think I listened to anything past when you're through thinking say yes, which is a very weird album title. Yeah, they then called it quits for good or at least up until this point in time. It's possible they get back together later. But yeah, in 2017, they shut it down. So I guess to wrap us up here before we rank songs, Jake, how does this band hold up for you, having revisited them? Like I know you mentioned a couple of the songs are very like, this is 2003. And I wonder if like because Ocean Avenue was so dramatically more successful than the other things Yellow Car did, that's part of why to circle back to our earlier conversation, they're banned without as many stands to use the hip term, why they're the Paul George of pop punk. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I think that because of everything you just said, I think that this album holds up better for me than I would have expected. Like I don't, I didn't come in expecting to dislike this record because I knew I already knew I liked a few of the songs. It's not an album that I'm going to say I will ever like throw on. Like there's, I don't see a situation where I'm like, I'm going to listen Ocean Avenue front to back today. But there's enough good songs. No, you'd listen to the single or way away. Yeah, exactly. And there's like two or three other songs I might throw on as well. But there's a lot more music from this era of bands that kind of sound like this minus the violin that I wouldn't listen to at all. And like that's not necessarily like trying to throw shade at it or anything. But like there's a lot of 2003 pop punk music that's just like not very good. And I think that this is definitely a tier above that. I'm not going to say it reaches like, you know, if we're talking 2003, it doesn't reach your good morning alkaline trio and self titled blink levels or anything. But I, it's not like offensive to me. Like this is an album I'm like, oh, that's terrible. But I, which I kind of expected, not to think it is terrible, but I definitely didn't expect to come out of this being like, there's like five or six songs and they're actually quite like. Well, there are. So there you go. There you go. I think that wraps it up pretty well. Jake, speaking of songs you do like, we now have to pick one for the mix tape. And I think we're probably in agreement that it's either Ocean Avenue or way away. You could make a case for miles apart or breathing, but I think Ocean Avenue and way away are so significantly more important to their breakthrough and, you know, capturing their sound that it's got to be one of those two, right? I think it's got to be ocean Avenue. Like I think. All right. You say yellow card to anybody and they're like, oh, Ocean Avenue, um, actually one thing to consider, Ocean Avenue is already on the mix tapes of B so is it from our May mailbag episode? Well then. Yeah. I guess we have should we go with way way. I guess we got to go with way away then we make the rules way away is the song that's on the mix tape. Jake, thank you for saving me during all that. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] Please try the fish. [Music] Hello. It is Ryan and we could all use an extra bright spot in our day, couldn't we? Just to make up for things like sitting in traffic, doing the dishes, counting your steps, you know, all the mundane stuff. That is why I'm such a big fan of Chumba Casino. Chumba Casino has all your favorite social casino style games that you can play for free anytime, anywhere with daily bonuses. So sign up now at Chumba Casino.com. Sponsored by Chumba Casino, no purchase necessary, VGW group, void were prohibited by law, 18 plus terms and conditions apply. With Lucky Land Sluts, you can get Lucky just about anywhere. Daily Beloved, we're gathered here today. Has anyone seen the bride and groom? Sorry, sorry, we're here. 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