Digging Up Dillinger
5: The Fillmore Report Part 3: The Eyes
The eyes are the windows to the soul and that saying is true in this case. The person shot on July 22nd was reported to have brown eyes, which difers from everything known about John DIllinger. We go over more of the report put together by reired FBI agent Stewart Fillmore.
- Duration:
- 37m
- Broadcast on:
- 01 Jul 2024
- Audio Format:
- mp3
(upbeat music) - Infamous Indie presents The Digging Up Dillardier Project. Featuring the Texas crime travelers and Travis Thompson. I'm your host, Jill Maloney. In the annals of American crime, few figures loom as large as John Dillardier. A mastermind of bank heists, his name became synonymous with brazen robberies and daring escapes. Questions of whether he escaped an FBI ambush and the whereabouts of his buried loot persevere. History offers one account, but there are whispers that tell us many more. Join us as we go Digging Up Dillardier. Everybody, welcome to the next episode of Digging Up Dillardier. I'm your host, Joe Malillo. And with me, the team, Stuart Fillmore. I'm sending Todd Hiles, what's up, guys? What's up? - Hey. - Welcome, everybody. - Another episode. Last time we left you, we talked about the Fillmore Report. We introduced you to the ear discrepancies from the autopsy with Stuart. Stuart, any thoughts after we did that podcast now coming into this podcast as we continue on down your report? - You know, just to emphasize that that was the one thing that when I first started looking into this possibility of this imposter theory, which I didn't really buy, I had heard it before, I had no reason to doubt that the FBI got Dillinger. But the more I looked into it, the more there were just these unanswered questions that just seemed to be fairly significant, frankly. And then, like I said, I studied the pictures of him and the morgue, just to say, could this be an imposter? I know there was the plastic surgery on him and everything, but I could not quite determine what it was that was really standing out standing out to me that just didn't fit and it was the ears. And so I did a deep dive on the ears, I looked into them, I briefly thought at one point that it could have been, just to be graphic, I think I mentioned this before, you know, during the autopsy and the skull is removed, the skull cap is removed, you know, the face is pulled down and it's pulled down all around the skull cap. You know, that could have, maybe when they put the head back, it could have, the ears might not have gone back correctly, but you know, the ears are laying flat against the head whereas Dillinger's ears kind of puffed out. And then on the side, you know, whatever the angle of the ear was different, like Dillinger's was backwards. It was, yeah, exactly. So it's not gonna change that much, you know, in this autopsy procedure. So it's hard to fake ears and, you know, you can do the... - That's what I'm saying. - Yeah, exactly. It's almost like a fingerprint, really. - And Todd, you know, you're kind of seeing this stuff. I know Stuart has told you about it, but you're seeing this stuff with us kind of for the first time. What was your thoughts after we stop recording with the ears? - You know, I think looking at the side-by-side photos really does it, you know, again, to our listeners, Stuart does a great job of explaining it, but when you actually see those photos, to me, that's when you notice the difference between Dillinger and the body at the morgue. - And it's so weird because Travis has those ears. No, I don't know if, actually, I don't know if he does. Travis, do you think you have those ears? - Yeah, I've been told that I have the Dillinger ears. - Well, you know, the Dillinger ears right behind you. - Yeah, put your hands down. Let's do this. Put your hands down. I'm telling you, it's not too far off. - It's really not. And it's right behind him too. - Yeah, I was told that, especially when the news reel of my great-grandfather talking, my other grandmother was like, you have your great-grandfather's ears. - Isn't that funny, dude, isn't that funny? We're so excited you guys are back to listen to another podcast here. It's a 50/50 shot if I call it the project, the digging of Dillinger Project, or the digging of Dillinger podcast. They're both correct. There's no wrong answers here. But just to be clear, you know, I would start betting on which one I call it every episode 'cause it's a crapshoot, it's a 50/50. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right. - There is a difference. And I think one real thing that I wanna mention again is this is different. This is a project because it's different. This isn't just a podcast that we're doing to talk about this stuff. We really want to change history. We want to make a dent in whether or not this is the truth. And we're gonna look into it. And that means that we're gonna have projects, aka things outside of the podcast that we'll talk about on bring it back to you all about what we're doing outside. One of the things that we've done the last couple of days since we last recorded was we've been looking up, I could tell the guys, Stuart, Travis, Todd, myself, we've all been looking up documentaries. We've gone back into YouTube and dove into different documentaries. We've also been talking on via text message about certain things and kind of going into great detail on text message between us. And all of it is to gain knowledge to each other for each other so that we're able to correctly investigate this mystery. So just know on the back end, we're all still working during the week to kind of do the research and investigate and literally because Stuart and Todd are private investigators, licensed private investigators, they investigate all the time. And I'm just here for the ride, right guys? I'm just here to look at you guys and you guys tell me what's up. So you're the celebrity here though. So that's important. - There you go. - I am part of the Morgan County Boys and Girls Club celebrity golf outing every year because I was once on television at one point. I play with Pacers, I play with the Colts. Sometimes there's IndyCar. It's IndyCar season right now. I got my... - It has its perks, man. - It does. I knew one day I'd make it and it was Morgan County, Boys and Girls Club celebrity golf outing. So thanks for listening to my rant there. Just wanna make sure everybody understands we want your community to support us 'cause we're trying to do big things. Okay, next part here of the report. I'm really excited to share this so I'm gonna share our screen here. - Before we jump into it, again, remind our listeners that the Fillmore report was written by Stuart Fillmore. - That's right. That's right. - But I don't understand. I see that front page and it says written by Stuart Fillmore. Stuart, why don't you go buy a cool initial like the cool FBI agents? Why aren't you like our Stuart Fillmore? (laughing) Like Jay Edgar Hoover, stop. - What's your middle name, Stuart? - Well, actually, when you go into the bureau, they let you choose your official bureau name. And actually, Stuart is my middle name. And my first name is Is John. And so, but I've never in my life gone by John. So, I made it, my official bureau name was Jay Stuart Fillmore. So maybe a nod to Jay Edgar, but not really. - Oh my God. - When you went in, you didn't call yourself Jay Dillinger's Fillmore. (laughing) You could pick your name how you want it on your credentials. - Yeah. Yeah, well, I think it had to be some semblance of your real name. But it's like a stage name. (laughing) Yeah. So Jay Stuart Fillmore Report is on the screen for all those who are listening to the podcast, maybe in your car. This episode, we're gonna go into, we did the years. And I'm scrolling down now into part two of the Fillmore Report of autopsy to discrepancy. So, I'm gonna quickly read this cold, by the way. Haven't read this yet before, but other than to myself while reading the report. But autopsy discrepancies include, the official autopsy was performed by Dr. Jerome, JJ Kearns of the Cook County morgue on July 23rd, 1934, a few hours after the shooting. Several discrepancies between the known physical characteristics of John Dillinger and the autopsy findings were first observed and described by author Jay Robert Nash in his book, Dillinger Dead or Alive in 1970. There were several differences in height, weight, and appearance in the autopsy regarding the appearance. Dillinger had a distinct cleft in his chin. For those, check out Travis's cleft. We can see it, now he shaved this week. So you can see it. The body on the table had no cleft in the chin. Also two moles, Dillinger is known to have were not present or described. This is not inconsistent with the known procedures performed during the plastic surgery operation. Also the hair and mustache had been dyed black and the eyebrows were trimmed and shaped differently. These discrepancies can be reasonably explained, of course. The height and weight differences were not significant and could be attributed to any number of factors. The missing moles in the cleft chin could be attributed to plastic surgery, performed on Dillinger. The dyed hair, dyed mustache, and trimmed eyebrows are consistent with the wanted person attempting to disguise themselves. There are, however, several significant discrepancies that are much more suspicious and more difficult to reasonably explain. These discrepancies are the next thing we're talking about after we talk about the height. So the height and weight and these cleft chin and the moles steward. Talk about where you got that information, how did you determine that you can hear yourself saying, basically, it could be all explained. - So in the FBI, I mean, the FBI has the file on Dillinger and Travis actually has a full copy of it. I have a full copy of it. Within that FBI file is the autopsy report. It's like a, I think, a four-page document that's fairly descriptive, honestly. Like any autopsy, it gives a description of the body, a general description. It looks to be a 30-year-old white male who appears to be well-fed, well-nourished, muscular. However, the general description is. And it noted that the body had brown scalp hair, but that it clearly had been dyed black and the mustache was dyed black. The eyebrows had been reshaped. And at least in the description, there was no mole described on the face. I'm not sure if an autopsy would even describe a mole anyway, but nonetheless, the moles were not described in the autopsy report. And I'm not sure also, too, if you had, at least in the general description, if an autopsy would describe a cleft chin, maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't, but nonetheless, it wasn't described in this report, and Billinger was known to have had that. - Pictures tell its own words, too, or tell its own story, too. - Yeah, now, so like, the murder cases that I've worked as a private investigator, I mean, there's so many autopsy photos taken, and there's some from so many different angles to give a clear picture of, because you can write the autopsy report, but what is it, a picture's worth a thousand words. If autopsy photos were taken of Billinger, I've never been able to find any. Nothing refers to it in the FBI file, so I'm just gonna assume that they did not take autopsy photos in those days, I don't know. - So what are the photos that we have from the ear report, part of the report? - So there were pictures taken of Billinger in the morgue on the table, you know, I think the media was allowed in, it was kind of a circus, actually, so, and they got pictures of him from a lot of different angles, and so I've tried to look at all the ones I could find, you know, from all angles, that's what I'm trying to do, and compare with pictures of Billinger when he was alive. - Right, right. And that, there's a few, actually, I found another picture of him in the morgue. This, these moles, do you find it too concerning about the discrepancies? I mean, the height and weight, how much was the height and weight differences, too? - I forget the weight, he was, I think, he was listed as five seven, and maybe the body on the table was five eight, five nine, you know, I mean, you know, two inch discrepancy could be significant, but a lot, you know, I don't know. To me, the difference is, and I'm forgetting the numbers offhand exactly what they were, the height and weight, but they just, to me, didn't seem significant, they just seemed, you know, somewhat minor. - Look at this picture that I found. What a ridiculous picture. - Yeah, so, actually, those are two showgirls. I actually knew their names at one time. You know, they were there in pretty skimpy bathing suits for the day. - I mean, it's real skimpy for the day. - Yes, I know. - Hey, let our listeners know what picture we're looking at. - I mean, it's a picture of John Dillinger on what looks like a table of some sort, and like, through a window, people are viewing his body as he's kind of covered up, and he doesn't look like himself. Like, my first thought is like, that does not look like him, right? - Well, again, it's, you know, it's anytime that someone is dead, they don't look like themselves. - I know, I know. - You know, it looks like this, you know, I can't quite, I don't think they involved him at the morgue. I don't, I think that was later. But, you know, when someone's involved, they can look a little, maybe swollen, you know, and so they, you know, again, they just don't look right, something's different. - Yeah, yeah, he definitely didn't look right in that. - But you can tell, I think I mentioned this last week, there are a couple of photos you can see of Dillinger in the morgue, he's clearly dead, but he still had a somewhat of a natural look, you know, so he can tell it that the pictures were taken pretty quickly, I would bet, after he was killed. - Yeah, you know, just look at that picture again, it makes you wonder, why did they even let the public come in and look at that? - Todd, you know, I mean, you know, this is not, 1934 was not too removed from the Old West. And, you know, in the Old West, when they caught the bad guy, the whole town and the posse would prop the corpse of the bad guy up and they'd all stand with it like it was a trophy. So, you know, I don't think times had changed that much into 1934. - It's pretty, it's pretty crazy to see a line of people looking at the body as they go through, but he was a celebrity, right? - He absolutely was a celebrity, yes. - Yeah, so it definitely fits the way he ended. Hey Travis, did your family ever, did your grandma ever tell you stories about that moment, you know, when they're bringing him home and that they weren't their parades or weren't their people kind of view it? - Yeah, there's a lot of people, I mean, they had to have, they moved it to the, I'm trying to say, Audrey's house for a little bit, then they moved into Morzil and there was huge crowds in the street, people surrounded the building, just like when the actual funeral service was done, there were thousands of people in the street and around, I mean, around the cemetery. - Yeah, and it was like a torrential rainstorm too, but the crowds hung around for it. Was it hot? July? - Yeah, you know, that's one of the things that we'll probably get into on other aspects of these autopsy discrepancies, that Chicago was experiencing a heat wave that week. I wanna say it was maybe around 100 degrees that day, you know, July 22nd and having lived, I lived in Chicago for three years myself and I can tell you, it can get pretty damn hot, I can get balls ass hot in the summer, not like Texas, where we have it, you know, all the way into October, but it can actually get hot. So, you know, and that was one reason that in addition to being a movie buff, I think that they'd gone to the movie just to cool off is in those days, you know, movie theaters, you know, had air conditioning and most people did not, you know, in their homes. - Yeah, well, then that movie theater with a rare one, 'cause it did have air. There wasn't many people going around the head of air. - It said ice fresh air, as it's advertisement. - Ice fresh air. - A big selling point. - Yeah, good, yeah, absolutely. - Sounds like something I would want to do. - That's one reason why in that picture of the body and the morgue, how people are dressed like in t-shirts and their undershirts become how hot it was. - Yep. So, to conclude this portion, these discrepancies, which are the fact that the height and weight were different, the scars and the moles. - Yeah. - We're gonna, if I had to vote on which half that I believed in, whether it was him or not him, I'd say this one's arguing that it is him. - Yeah, yeah. I mean, to me, like I said, if that was all it was, I wouldn't be convinced whatsoever. - Right, right. - Yeah, so, no, I don't find those discrepancies compelling at all. - Well, in that case, I think we're ready for another really, really good one. So, we're gonna move to the next part then of the eye color. - Yeah. - Okay, Stuart, what do you think? - So, you know, again, this is one of those things where it could just be attributed to a mistake by the pathologist, by Dr. Kerns, you know, that he just, I don't know, maybe the lighting was bad in the autopsy room, you know, one of those things. And I will say this, and Todd and Travis, I know you agree with me on this, that there's no investigation that doesn't have anomalies or unanswered questions or just something that you never really find an answer to. You know, and this just, you know, might be it. But the thing about it is the Dillinger is described as having just such unique gray eyes, which I would, gray eyes to me, I would, I would, for me, I would describe them as super light blue eyes. And there's several reports of the, he just had striking eyes. So, you know, maybe if he had hazel eyes or green eyes, you might, in the right lighting, you could mistake that for brown eyes. But, you know, it's going to be hard to, I think, to make that mistake of light colored bluish eyes for brown eyes. And, you know, so one of the things when we go into the heat wave is that many people have made an argument that the eyes just turned brown because of the heat. And where did he have his eye color officially put down? Well, you know, he was taught, he was arrested a couple of times. You know, he's arrested in Dayton, Ohio. He was arrested in Tucson, Arizona. You know, and he brought back to Crown Point. So, there's physical descriptions of him in those arrest reports. I think there's also a description in his Navy records, you know, because he was briefly in the Navy. And, in all circumstances, it's described as, you know, blue eyes or gray eyes. That's a crazy description, these gray eyes. I mean, it's a very unique color, as you say in the report, but it's also the Navy records, too, here. Okay. Travis, I got a question. Yes. Dude, is anybody else in your family ever had gray eyes? My dad has, I would say the closest resemblance eyes to that. Yeah. I got. Nice. So. You got what? I got brown eyes. Well, then you're probably the dead guy. So I think it's a good point, too. Stewart, something that comes to mind here is when they're looking at the autopsy or when they're performing the autopsy, are they using a flashlight? Like, you know what I mean? You think they would? Yeah. It would be hard to say, you know, like, how could they mess up, is my point? Again, you know, to just to get the benefit of it. Yeah, to get the benefit of the doubt, it just could have possibly been poor lighting. You know, maybe in those days, you know, a typical autopsy, they didn't consider eye color an important aspect of it, you know, but again, and I don't honestly know how new autopsy science was at that point and what the specific protocols were for it like it is today. You know, so it just to the pathologist, it just might not have seen seemed like a big deal and he just took a really quick look and goes, oh, those are brown eyes. And so, you know, it could be something as simple as that, you know, to account for it. One of the rationale and one of the things that people might guess is, hey, it was hot, he was moving, he was bloated, he was, you know, decaying. Well, yeah, and it's by the time you get to the autopsy, it's several hours later, you know, after he was shot. And so could he have bloodshot eyes? Well, because he was shot through the face right here. Well, yeah, but it actually, the bullet came out just below the eye. I think the eye itself was was undamaged. Okay. Yeah. I'm just trying to I'm playing super devil's and bloodshot eyes. That's that doesn't affect the iris that we're, you know, we describe the color of the eye. That's that's in the, I think it's called the sclera, the, the white part of the eye. That's where you see bloodshot eyes. Yeah. Yeah. No. And you, but you're mean, you're, you're meaning of that is not that he was out drunk. It's that he was, he'd been shot and could that, you know, could the, the gunshot have affected it. Yeah. And not to mention, you know, when someone has like a bloody eye, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I see what you're saying. Yeah. And yeah. So you see, you know, could that blood maybe have gotten into the iris and kind of, uh, obscured the real color, but, but again, you know, and it's not specific in the report, you know, you would presume that he looked at both eyes, but, you know, he might have, you know, he might have just looked at the right eye real quickly. And maybe that Joe could actually account for it, you know, if there was, I'm, I'm sure there probably was some kind of leading or contusion in that eye. Well, I'm just trying to, I'm trying to say, like, let's put everything out on the table here. Yeah. Absolutely. And with your eyes, expertise, I think there's no doubt that we have at least a shot to come up with an excuse for this because let's, let's face it, like I want to argue for him too, or like that it is him because, you know, if we could argue, you got, you know, reasonable doubt, right? Leave no reasonable doubt. Exactly. It's, it's him. So, um, I have something to bring. Maybe if the FBI was scared that they really got the wrong guy, would there be a lot of pressure from any agents that are on scene to push this doctor to hurry through an autopsy report to get that done? Well, well, these can be made during, during the haste. Absolutely they can. And I'll tell you, I've never actually heard of that in the Dillinger case, but I'm actually doing quite a bit of research right now into the John F. Kennedy assassination. And that outside influence, without a doubt, and by that, I mean non pathologists present at the autopsy of JFK absolutely had an effect and we're, we're actually giving orders to the pathologist as the autopsy was going on. So, you know, so it has happened and it definitely can affect the quality of the autopsy. Yes. Well, I'm kind of curious because, you know, if they're waiting for identification, Audrey said, yes. And I'm kind of weren't, if it truly isn't him, did Audrey just go ahead and be like, yes, that's him just to settle it with the FBI and everyone on scene hates finally over the scene to got him, right, when the father shows up and says, no, that's not him, right, I'm kind of wondering like how fast did this report get done? So let's talk about real quick, you know, that let's presume something that this, that it wasn't imposter. And that, you know, this was a plan, this was planned Dillinger somehow and someone that was helping him found this Patsy, if you will, that looked like him enough. How this, the Patsy was convinced to, I don't know, you know, befriend this Anna Sage. And you know, that he looked enough like Dillinger that, you know, they were able to do this. If that happened, I would presume Travis, knowing how well that John loved his family and his family loved him, there's no doubt about that, you know, that probably the family would have known about it, you know, or maybe, you know, certainly Audrey, because John was close to Audrey, you know, that, that, you know, maybe he let her know, or somehow it was, you know, she already knew about it, you know, again, we don't have any confirmation of that, but it is, it is reasonable that if, if this was a planned thing, that, that probably someone in the family would have known about it, how quickly did the family get up there to Chicago that night? I'm 100% sure, I've never, Grandma never got it down in details about how fast, like I said, Audrey was the first one up there. So how fast were she without at the time, which got notified? I would say, you know, probably three, four hours at that time, I mean, from Indianapolis, Chicago, it's right about close to three hours now. I'm saying probably about four hours after notification. Yeah. And by that time, who knows what had been discussed before any family risk could get up there? Right. When you say he would, they would have known about a Patsy, what do you mean by that? Like you mean they would have got to, John would have called him and said, Hey, I'm not going to die. Yeah. Absolutely. Because he's going to need, he was very close to his family. He loved his family. Yeah. You know, there's no doubt about that. And he was able to sneak into the family farm right under a 24 hour FBI surveillance. So he felt safe there. He probably felt safer at that farm than anywhere on the planet. And so it would make sense that if the, if the world thinks he's dead, then he would probably be far easier to sneak back to the farm and then could maybe use that just as a base of operations to do whatever he was going to do to start a new life. Stewart, I would agree with you that the family had known and this will come up later in this investigation, like how the, what the family did and pictures they took and how they acted after the, yeah, that's going to show up that reason why we thought there's something fishy, some odd about how the family acted and posed with stuff. There's a, that's why someone's kind of pushed me to believe that it was a pin in Chicago. Nice Travis. Keep them, keep them on their toes out here. Keep them on the edge of their seat. Travis is good. I, let me, let me just read this because I think this part's good. Several recent studies were reviewed regarding post-mortem eye color changes. From my review of the findings, these studies consistently concluded that no significant changes in eye color occur to the iris, which is the portion of the eye that gives color, after death until decomposition begins. This includes testing done in different temperatures. However, there is a phenomenon known as the corneal, uh, a corneal, corneal, uh, opacity? Opacity, uh, or corneal clouding. The cornea is the clear covering of the eye, post-mortem. The cornea will cloud or become opaque. This clouding begins shortly after death and increases steadily as the time of death increases. Heavily clouding of the cornea can make it difficult to see the specific color, iris eye color. Also after death, the muscles of the iris may relax, which can cause fully dilated pupils. Pupil dilation could further complicate the iris color identification. That's a good argument. Yep, absolutely. It could be, you know, again, like you said, uh, a combination of, uh, a contusion on the eye and then can fully relax the pupils, uh, it first glance could have just said, oh, those are brown eyes. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And then you have actual pictures of a body post-mortem with blue, gray, blue eyes. Yep. And you can see five hours, 16 hours and 27 hours post-mortem. Yep. That's pretty. And really you can see, you can see from left to right, you can see that, you know, what they're calling that opaque opacity or opaqueness, uh, you know, of that, of the cornea and, but you can still tell that it's a blue eye, even, uh, you know, at that, at that length of time. Yeah. Yeah. And ultimately the timeline doesn't really answer, uh, John Dillinger's timeline of the autopsy, you know, post-mortem that it wouldn't have clouded up that quickly. No, you'd see 27 hours post-mortem and the autopsy was how many hours after just just a few hours. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I will say one thing to this that just came to my memory of what I'm grandma said. Oh, great. When, when my great grandfather was in that room, he said when the FBI agents were not paying attention, he touched and examined the body some he did look around the body. So I'm, I, other than just that detail, I'm not sure like did that happen after or before he went to the side room. I'm not sure a grandma didn't really elaborate on that, but if he would have examined it on his own just real quickly and realize there's stuff missing that he would have known about that might have been a while like this isn't my fund. I'm, I'm stumped. I could go either way at this point. Yeah. I really, I really could. Yeah. I mean, I want to believe this. Again, there's explained, you know, and, and, and as I've said before, in, in any case that I've ever worked, I'm always looking for what, what are the weak spots of my case, you know, um, are my, are the initial allegations wrong that I got? Is the evidence not bearing out what I thought it did? It's constantly critiquing that. And I just applied the same thing to this. You know, I always want to know, is there an explanation, uh, you know, uh, and so yeah, there could be a logical explanation as to why the doctor, you know, said, brown eyes instead of blue. Yep. Thank you. Stuart, this is great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great job. Yeah. This report is incredible. This report is what I'm going to do is we're going to have the, the email campaign that you can sign up for. Um, if you write in the notes, you would like a Dillinger report, I can send them, I can send you them via email. So all you have to do is sign up for our email newsletter and we'll send you a report and you could look at this stuff yourself and read everything that Stewart did. So Stuart, you're ready to get demolished by our listeners. Exactly. Yeah. I can already see it now. This guy's an idiot. He doesn't know what he's talking about. But I will tell you, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm perfectly open to critique and, uh, you know, I'm not so, uh, committed to this that I will not admit that, Hey, that's a reasonable explanation. This, this works. This doesn't work. I'm wide open to it. Yeah. I mean, I'm just glad that we're being transparent with the viewers, um, about every, every evidence anything we have in our possession that we can bring to the public because someone else might have a better idea than what we have because we've been so immersed in this. Exactly. And there may be an explanation for the ears. Absolutely. Yes. Definitely. Right. That there could be one out there. Yep. Yeah. Just come, just contact us and we'll send you a copy and you can look at the ears yourself. There's, there's guys, we're, we're not done. We're, we're not even halfway into this report. Right. So, I mean, we're, I'm looking at it here and there's, there's a few, few good ones. And we're going to try to keep going here and, and, uh, also work to try to get some experts for maybe possibly some other forms of discrepancies from the autopsy. We're having a blast. This is really fun. We, the guys that we have a group text that just blows up when we find something. We're like, guys, guys, look at this. Look at this. So, um, we're hoping you're having a good time to listen to us. I mean kind of last thoughts here on, on, you know, the moles, the, the, the height, the weight, the eyes, you know, this, this, this may not be for everybody, but, you know, I actually, I enjoy, you know, talking about these kinds of details and getting in the weeds on this kind of stuff. And you know, talking about autopsies and gunshots and you don't say, Stuart, you don't say, dude. Yeah. Really. You like that? You like that? There's no way. I can't believe it. Hey, hey, guys, I've ridden a lunch with him and I've ridden back to the office with him. He's exactly right. This is what he talks about. You're such a nerd. Usually during lunch, if it's not this case, it's 25 other cases. Yep. It's usually during lunch. I can sell a ticket to have lunch with Stuart. People pay for that. And speaking of, we do have a Patreon page. If you feel like trying to win an opportunity to have lunch with Stuart, we might do that. Absolutely. It'll be a Zoom lunch. It'll be a Zoom lunch and it might be just whiskey, but you know what? At least you get to ask Stuart anything you want. There you go. Like, subscribe, comment, share. We got Facebook, TikTok, YouTube. We do have a Patreon account, if you do, in that email campaign, I kind of offered that up today. If anybody would like the film or report, we'll send it to you. Just put it in the notes and I'll make sure to try to get it to you. You guys are great. Thank you all. Thanks for the community. Travis, Stuart, Todd. Love you guys. Thank you. Love it. Thank you guys. See you all. The Digging of Dylinger podcast is produced by Joe Malillo and Grace Hodge, the music produced by Eddie Badness, follow us on TikTok, Facebook, and YouTube. Until next time, keep digging. [music] [BLANK_AUDIO]