[MUSIC PLAYING] Coming up on "The Dr. John Deloney Show." We have sex. I have to fantasize about other people in order to remain aroused and to perform for her. You are facing a challenge that-- and the jillions of people, often it's men. And it has little to nothing to do with sexual attraction. It has to do with feeling alive in your own home. And you don't. [MUSIC PLAYING] What up, what up, what up, what up? This is John, "The Dr. John Deloney Show." Man, I'm so glad y'all are with us today. Hope your family's well. Hope you are just wrangling with all the madness going on in the world. Hope you are hanging in there. And best you can, turn the news off, turn the devices off, and begin with real people. Even people who are like, do you hear that? Even with those folks. Just device-free human connection, man. But I'm so glad that you're with us on the show. Man, we talk about mental and emotional health and relationships and psychology, whatever you've got going on in your world, your kids, your marriages. If you want to be on the show, real people going through real difficult stuff. Give me a pause at 1-844-69-3291. It's 1-844-69-33291 or go to johndeloney.com/ Ask, A-S-K. Oh, I love looking over there when Kelly's out of town and just not seeing Kelly. It's so good. I like seeing her. She's beautiful, but just saying. Taylor, you've said more nice things this morning than Kelly's ever said ever. And you said one sentence. All right, let's go to Charlotte, North Carolina. North Carolina, let's go to Charlotte, North Carolina. And my mind, I've gone to care and talk to Patrick. Hey, Patrick, what's up? Hey, John, I've got a question for you. Bring it on, dude. So I've been married for about 14, almost 15 years now. And my wife and I have a great relationship, great marriage. We've got four kids. She's my soulmate. We communicate well. Everything is going great. We love each other. I've actually fallen in love with her more this year. And we're more intimate now that we ever have been in life. Bro, you're setting this one up, man. I am setting it up. You're like making the shoe really high before you drop it. Yes, I am. So here's the problem. All right, what's the other shoe? Drop it. I am not sexually attracted to my wife. And we have sex about two or three times a week, but I have to fantasize about other people and other situations in order to remain aroused and to perform for her. And I don't like it. I don't want to do this. I wish I could be aroused to buy her and have a more intimate and fulfilling sex life with her. But it's just not happening. OK. What can I do about that? So I feel like the preamble, all the stuff you told me up until this isn't true, because she doesn't know this. And you told me you're more intimate, you've ever been, you're more in love, you're more communicative, you'll talk about everything. But she doesn't know you're not attracted to her. Well, as she does now, she just found out a couple of days ago. How did she find out? Were you posting it online? How did she find out? I broke down and confessed her. I told her, look, I have a hard time performing for you, and I have to fantasize in order to do it. Why do you consider sex a performance? So that's what she asked. I don't know. I feel like I have to be the one that initiates. I have to be the one that pulls the whole thing off, or else it is just not going to happen. And that leads me to this sense of, bro, I don't know what kind of-- I would hug you if you were sitting here, OK? So I want you to hear me say that. OK. You are facing a challenge that-- bajillions of people, men and women, face in their relationships. But often, it's men. And it has little to nothing to do with sexual attraction. It has to do with feeling alive in your own home. And you don't. And so everything has to be a theater performance. And it has to-- I've got to get my heart rate racing again. And I have to concoct this adventure. And right now, I'm trusting you that it's staying in your head. But it will be out of your head shortly. You'll be in somebody else's bed. Because it's that quiet life of desperation. And so as good as you think things are, man, I feel like you're almost having to tell yourself that because you're drowning. You're not even drowning. You're suffocating in your own home. Is that fair? Am I crazy? You might have a point in some regards. I've been working on a lot of that stuff about bringing my heart back to life and finding out what it is that makes me feel alive. What makes you feel alive? What is it? Honestly, I'm not really sure. I like just hanging out around my friends. I like going on small adventures. But I'm not super extroverted either. So a lot of the stuff that people want to do just kind of intimidates me, I guess. That's where it is. That's where the adventure is. So you've created a story where I'm kind of introverted. So that's off the table. I'm kind of this. So that's off the table. And yet your body is starving for it. Forget your friends for a second. You and your wife, what does play look like? What does Aeros and Desire look like? How does she seduce you? She does, huh? OK, that's the issue to be addressed. How can I address that? Openly and directly and with compassion. Because if this whole thing is one-sided, then the whole thing is an event. And she is just merely an actor on a stage. She's not with you. And you just write the script and hand it to her. In fact, you don't even hand her the script anymore. She just stays. She's just there. She's not participating in this thing. Well, we have talked about some of that where I've told her, I wish she could engage more and initiate more and participate more. And she doesn't really know what to say or know what to do. And I've tried to direct her. And then she'll say, OK, but then she doesn't do anything. And that's that has to be addressed. Because in many ways, you've said, I need this from you. I need to feel loved. And right now in this season, here's what feeling love looks like. And she nods at you. And it goes, I don't care about that. And often, there's another side to that. Has she told you, here's what makes me feel loved and alive? Yes, she has. And what does she say? She just wants to know that, you know, that I'm thinking about her all day, like when I'm at work, she likes having text messages from me just telling her that I love her. She likes it when I do kind, gentlemanly things, where I hold a door open for her and cook for her and things like that. And I do that stuff. That's all performative. Yeah, what's beneath that? She wants to feel special. She wants to feel like she might want to know only. But she's not, because you have a whole cadre of actors that you rely on to fulfill these stories every night, or two or three times a week. And you see how it just turns into this weird figure eight. It's this infinity loop that nobody can catch the other person. It's a strange dance, where you are literally suffocating in your own home. And the way you get little gulps of oxygen is to create fantasies and stories so that you can get this physical release and she is not a participant. She's just being used for that release and she can feel it in her nervous system. And so then she begs for, will you tell me that I'm the only one with that I'm special? And you outsourced that to text messages and to doing the dishes and opening the door and putting your hand on the small of her back. All those are important things. But both of y'all are just trying to breathe through a straw. And unless you both sit down and say, all right, how long have you all been married? Almost 15 years. 15 years. Here's the top 10 fantasies of mine. You ready? All right, we're gonna go down a rabbit hole. And y'all both agreeing, curiosity, not judgment. All right, tell me about that one. Why is that exciting? And being able to sit in that tension, in that space, and I know people are listening to this right now, and being like, I could never tell the person I married to that I had this thought one time of, and I would tell you, that's the problem. Because I know secrets kill relationships and people can feel when they're not connected. And the problem with a lack of connection with two married people who are sleeping together is, it accentuates how far apart you are, even though you're in the middle of one of the most intimate physical acts possible. Because you both know you're not there. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. Have you, I've joked about this before and ended up not being a joke, like it ended up with a life of its own, and it ended up being hilarious. Have you tried the John Deloney erotic envelope system? Have you heard me talk about that? Yes, actually my wife and I just did that a few months ago. How was it? I don't remember if it was the exact same thing, but very similar, it was where we put 10 things. We wanted to try. Yeah, like it was five things per person, I think. And we put on each on a different piece of paper and into a jar and we pulled one out each night and talked about it. Okay. And that was good. But she wrote down nothing having to do with sex, whatsoever, and mine were like three out of five or six related. But that's super instructive. What were her things? Like she wanted to study language together and let's like do a hobby together. And I don't remember what else, but we haven't written down upstairs. And were you curious about those? Yeah, I feel like we could have had more conversation about the items that we pulled out, but I want to pick them back up. I certainly want to review them with her. Because that's going to tell her, or that's her clumsy way of telling you what she's missing. And you're three or four or five or six or 10 fantasies or sex acts, the things you want to participate, you all want to do together. That sense of aliveness and adventure and desire and thinking about it all day and her being a full participant, not for you, but with you. That's what you're missing. And there just feels like there's not a bridge to get there. So you go through the motions, you do the acts, but you're in your head somewhere far away with different people. And learning a language is a way of... It's a, I'm trying to say it in a not cheesy way. It's a knowing, right? It's a coming together in a deeply intimate way. We have done a thing. We've been through a hard thing. And now we have a way of communicating that no other people in our life do. Like the depth of intimacy in there in that request is so deep. But since it doesn't involve like, I don't know, a new outfit and some weird music and some like, like whatever you got in your head, it's easy to bypass the sensuality to it. And so here's what curiosity looks like. I'll just walk you through it. So I want to learn a language with you. That's when you pull out of the envelope and you're kind of bummed out 'cause you were hoping it would be like some wild, like, all right, here's what we're gonna do. And she pulls out one and it's some weird, like exotic sex act you've conjured up or you saw in some movie back when you were 19 years old, whatever. And here we are. And so immediately there's a little bit of disappointment from both of you. All he wants is my body. I might even have participant. All he wants is to just not be erotic and not whatever. Think about the tension building and the play building and the arrows that would be in your home if you both, and I'm making something up here. You both learned Spanish and then you went on a date in Spanish and you both were people like, you were both from Spain and you went to some, you should have saying like this thing could end in this wild romantic night, but it's about getting the layer beneath the layer, beneath the layer. You know what I'm saying here? It might sound like a lunatic. - No, I get you. I totally understand it makes sense. Yeah. - I also know that this can be incredibly terrifying and very lonely and I hate that for you. - Yeah, well, some of the things that you mentioned are great and I have talked about some of this stuff with her and it seems like, I mean, again, like the stuff I bring up, she's not interested in it. And the stuff that she brings up, I try, but then it's again, it just feels like it goes nowhere. - Is the interest in, I'm not interested in being a member. I don't want to be a cast member in that particular movie or is it, I don't want to have that adventure with you. - It's, I'm not interested in sharing, I'm not interested in like that particular roller coaster. I'm honestly not sure. - I think that's the question because my guess is, there are some things that people say to you, I'm just not comfortable with that or that hurts or I don't feel good, like that's part of it. And that's just about open dialogue and talking back and forth. But often, if there is a pattern of performance, a pattern of I am, I'm just doing this for you, but I am not a, I'm not doing this with you. Then just another layer, another outfit, another whatever, another fantasy to layer on top of that. And I'm not really interested in that. But I don't, I don't want to be an actor in your movie. But if I, but if you'll let me go write a script with you, I'll be in for that. Oh, that's good. Okay. - And so the layer beneath it is, I feel loved when you've been thinking about me all day. And I feel loved when I know that you can't keep your hands off me. And so what world would we have to create where that was possible? And her say in using with her, this sounds like one of the most valuable things she values with you is your time. - Yeah. - And so what does that look like? But I feel like there's a lot of whack-a-mole intimacy up on top of the surface here, and there's just lower layers. What's your chief, what's your chief fear in this marriage? - Um, now I guess it would be the chief, she just wouldn't want to, she would show no interest in getting to know me, or not care about wanting to enter my world, or know what's really going on in my mind, or... - Okay, have you said those things? - Have I said those things to her? - Yeah. - Yes, I have. - And she just said, "You're right. I don't want to know you." - She admitted to having those feelings in the past in the early years for marriage. - What's that? - Sorry? - What feelings? I don't even want to know him? - Yeah, feelings like she just is married to me because I'm the breadwinner, and she doesn't really want to get to know me on a deeper level. And that's the way we've got through our first seven or eight years of marriage. And, you know, I almost left the family, I almost got a divorce back then, but things are different. Now we've worked through a lot of our issues, and it's a lot better now than it was 10 years ago, 15 years ago. But I'm just afraid that that's going to come back. - Is there... is that possible? - I don't know. - Is it probable? - I don't know. I can see how it could be, how it could happen, yeah. But do you also see how you're creating a self-fulfilling prophecy? - Not exactly. - Things were bad seven or eight years ago. No question. Me and a woman telling you, like, I really didn't care about you. You were a safe bet. And I needed a warm bed to sleep in. And so I was willing to high-five you a couple times a week. I didn't really care about you. And you felt that every second of your life, seven or eight years ago. And did you have somebody on deck during that time? Do you have a co-worker that made you laugh or somebody that you texted back and forth with that you thought, man, this would be my off-ramp? - Not really, no. - Okay. So you just were all alone in your misery? - Yeah, that was pretty lonely. - Okay. So your body put a GPS pin in that and now you hedge. You don't tell the full truth, the whole truth to nothing but the truth. Because that would have gotten you burned seven or eight years ago. And what it's hard to realize is the house is on fire right now. And so you're not going to tell her everything. She's just going to continue to. You're going to live in your head and you're going to act it out in real life. And she's just going to put up with it and you're going to find yourself back in that same pattern of she will participate a couple of days a week because it keeps you happy and it keeps the money depositing in the direct deposit. And as much as you're in your head during those times, she's for sure in her head thinking about other things, right? Like bills or laundry or whatever else, but not what you wish she was thinking about. And it just creates what you all have already had. And that's different than sitting down and saying, I want us to build something together and giving her the opportunity to say, I'm not doing that. Because you've got to deal with that issue. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. And I know it's terrifying. Do you think she's going to like be out or that she's going to force you to say, okay, then I don't want to be a part of this? No, divorce is not on the table. There's there's no chance of us separating. Okay, here's what's beautiful about what you just said. There's no chance this ends zero. And so now all you have to choose is one or the other. Do we want a home of arrows and desire and playfulness and fun and connection? Or do we want a house of loneliness and performance and a descending misery? Because we're not going to leave. And one of those seems infinitely more fun than the other. And one of those are both the playful fun. Life's pretty hard. Let's just have as much fun as we can in this deal. Means we're not going to have sex all the time. And it means not every night of sex is going to be the Super Bowl. There is just going to be boring, married sex. Sometimes that's great. It's awesome. And there's going to be what one woman told me, it feels like a warm hug. It's just connective. It's not adventurous. It's not it's not that. It's just gentle connection. Good time. And then there's adventure nights and there's fun times. And there's also, hey, what does intimacy look like outside of the bedroom? Let's sign up for a dance class together. Let's do. Oh, you want to do things with me? I'm going to make you a priority in my life. We're going to co-create. We're going to co-write this script. You're not just going to be an actor three nights a week in my head. And that's just a totally different life. And bro, just so you know, you're not alone, man. This is the state of modern marriage. Two people expecting the other person to fulfill them. Instead of sitting down and saying, dude, let's make something amazing together. And it's not going to be amazing all the time. But let's build towards something awesome where we laugh a lot and play a lot. And I'm going to concede here and I'm going to compromise here. And I don't even know why you're kind of into this because it's kind of weird, but I'm going to play along so I feel comfortable and I feel safe. And that's too weird or that's super painful, right? I can't. All right, let's have that conversation. Let's just have it. And sometimes the arrows is in the conversation. Tell me more about that. What is it? It's exciting about that. Where did that even pop into your head? Right? That can become some of the most intimate conversations and learning and you learn about your fears, learn about what you're into, learn about what scares you, learns about what like really makes your heart start beating. Man, what feels a little deviant? All those things. Man, you had to share that with somebody, especially anchored in were never leaving each other ever. Gosh, that sounds amazing. But you both got to be willing to go for it. Go all in. I'm grateful for your brother. Thanks for being open and forgive me a buzz. I think the conversation that I would start with if I was in your situation and take my wife out and say, hey, I realized over the last four or five years, our marriage has gotten good. It's gotten real good. But I've made you an actor in my world, in my movie. I want to write something with you. Let's do this together. Let's go build something amazing. And in so doing, I want you to tell me. Beneath though, let's do a class together. Beneath, I want you to wear a nurse's outfit together, whatever the thing is. Beneath all that. Like what kind of world do we want to create? What does that look like? Thank you so much for the call, my brother. I'm grateful for you. We'll be right back. All right, I want to talk about Hallo. It's an app that I use just about every single day. So we're here at the end of summer, trying to fit in that last minute vacation, trying to figure out where all of our money went and trying to plan for the start of school. And it's chaos. It's chaos. It's chaos in your life and it's chaos in mind. And it's this season when it's super important to make sure you double and triple down on your exercise practices, your counseling, your relationships, and your spiritual health. And if you're a person of faith or if you're just curious and you don't know anything about this faith, prayer, whatever stuff, don't let your daily prayer or your meditation practices or your questions go unanswered or by the wayside. Don't let your still time with God go. As things ramp up and get more and more chaotic, we have to choose to slow down and focus on the things that really, really matter. And in addition to my conversations with my friends and my personal reading and journaling time, Hallo helps me stay on point with my spiritual practices. Hallo is an app that's easy to download right to your phone and it is packed with daily prayers, lecture series, meditations, music, stories, nighttime sleep programs and more. Hallo is the number one prayer app in the world. And it's simple. It's super high quality. And you can personalize it based on wherever you happen to be in your spiritual life. I use it on my drive to work when I'm sitting in front of my red light. Sometimes when I'm out walking my dogs and I even listen to some of the music when I'm writing. Hallo has a journaling feature for your own personal reflection. I could go on and on. It's got everything. Here's what's really cool. This month, Hallo has special guests each week walking us through the lives of some incredible historical saints learning more about their life, their faith, their story and ultimately their surrender to God's call on their life. Hallo's Saints in Seven Days series dives deeper into the lives of these prominent saints exploring their journey to Sainthood and how it relates to our own lives. Here's the deal. My friends at Hallo are giving you three free months to try all of this right now. That's 90 days to experience the joy and peace that this experience can help bring to your life. It's totally free to try it out. Go try it. It can change everything. Go to hallow.com/diloni today for three free months. That's hallow-h-a-l-l-o-w.com/diloni. Talk to Chicago, Illinois and talk to not a man, but Amanda. What's up, Amanda? That's hello, Dr. John. I can't believe I'm actually talking to you. I don't know how you do this every day because I am so nervous and I'm not a very nervous person. I don't have stage fright, so how do you do it every day? I'm super nervous, super nervous. I was going to say something about stage fright, but I won't. Hey, so what's up? Yes, so oh goodness, there is so much detail in background to this story. So I'm going to try to articulate myself and summarize it and get the point of pride. Start at the end and then work back. So where are you right this second? Okay, so the overarching thing is pretty much how do we navigate a strained relationship with my husband's best friend and his wife when she refuses to talk it out? Hold on, hold on, hold on. You don't. You don't, okay. You don't. Is he friends with... He's your husband's best friend? Life long, life long, like brothers. My husband is an only child. And it's literally been his lifelong best friend. His parents are best friends with his parents. And yeah, so this has been, we're at a massive impasse. Well, I mean his best friend's choosing his wife. Yeah. And I wish it was less complicated. I mean, I wish it was more complicated than that, but his best friend is choosing life over him. Right, which he should. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I guess. Yeah, he should. Yes, when it's spoken generally like that. Yes, but like there's just been like so much that has happened. I can kind of give you my little synopsis here. Will it? So I have a bad habit of over-complicating things. And so one of the things I'm working on is simplifying things. Is extra nuance here helpful? Or is it coming down to your husband's best friend is choosing his wife over his lifelong best friend, therefore making that relationship? Like has the relationship somebody chosen to opt out? Yeah, I mean, that's what it feels like. You know, behavior is a language like you always say. It's kind of, you know, come down to that, you know, something happens that hurt my feelings and kind of cross the line for me. So we pulled a WWJD, what would John do? And I asked her to sit down to coffee sometime and, you know, talk out anything that we have going on. And she pretty much refused to do it. And that's some pretty cruel things to me. And, you know, that's not how we thought it was going to go. I figured she'd go with me to coffee and, you know, what she said to you. Oh, without pulling up like the messages and like reading them, I wouldn't be able, it's not like she straight out called me like the B word or something, but it was pretty much an attack on my character and saying that like I'm being petty and I'm starting drama and all of this stuff. Did your husband call us buddy and say, do you, what's up? He did. He did. Well, so when they got on the phone, the first thing my husband's friend said was, you know, this is the only time we're going to discuss this, you know, and why are we going to let this get in the way of a lifelong relationship? He pretty much thinks that, you know, I need to just move on like it never happened. And obviously my husband's like, well, you know, my wife was disrespected. And so, you know, I feel like I can't move forward. What was the thing that happened? In the text messaging, in the text messaging when I tried to ask her to go to coffee and just I, and I was very general. I just said, hey, you know, would you be wanting to go to coffee sometime? And, you know, but like specifically, what did she say that was so devastating that you have told your husband, I'm, I'm drawing a line here and either your lifelong best friend's wife fixes this or this is over? It was pretty much essentially calling me like a petty little girl. And that, you know, I'm trying to start drama on that. Pretty much she, she pretty much attacked my character in the message. And then said, I'm not having this conversation. I'm done. You can't respond. You can't have any feelings here. And you need to just like move on. So it's pretty much like she got to like attack my character and say her piece and then act like I'm not able to, you know, address it or sit and talk with her or anything. Yeah. So it sounds like there's a, um, I mean, it's just a strange impasse because you have one of the best friends, wife saying until she fixes this, y'all can't be friends. And then you have the other wife saying until you fix this, um, y'all can't be friends. Well, and I'm not saying that he can't be friends because we've never really been like each other's like cup of tea. I guess you could say there wasn't for our spouses. We wouldn't like be friends, you know, outside in the real world. But we've always kind of just like, you know, been cordial with one another. She's sure she's done things that have been like, you know, like rude or hurtful in the past. And I've kind of just like brushed them off and let them go. Like, I guess I'm concerned that you're giving this other woman so much voice into your life. Yeah. Like it seems like, I mean, you just keep this long, a laundry list, but it's not really a laundry list as much as just a big box of or a big jar of feelings. Yeah, yeah. And you're choosing to pick it up and carry it every day. I'm just curious about it. Yeah. You're giving this woman a lot of power in your life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I've got friends that I hang out with, my wife doesn't hang out with us and the person they happen to be with. But it's just not like a, I guess they don't, their person doesn't disrespect my wife. So I guess there's that. But right, right. I guess my question to you is why are you carrying this around? Well, because I want it to work out. It's not going to. Because I want it to first my husband, you know, and so, because I mean, I, I, thinking about it, you know, if it was vice versa and it was my friend, I'd be like, you know, I would kind of feel the same way. Like, hey, it's, it's kind of hard to move forward. And it makes it even more hard to move forward when you're trying to pretty much, you know, say that my husband is overreacting and needs to let it go and. But I mean, you have, you have one wife that says, I don't, I don't like the way you're acting. I want to talk to you about it. And the other wife saying, I don't want to talk to you. I don't like you. Yeah, I mean, and we tried to make it super like general, like my husband even said, you know, if a man has ever done anything to upset, you know, insert wife's name, she will happily like, you know, she wants to sit down and hear about those things too. But it's kind of like they just, you know, don't want to do that. And he was supposed to get back with my husband after he talked to his wife. But he never did. And so like a month later, my husband checked back in and was like, hey, you know, did you ever talk to, you know, insert wife's name? And he, he said, oh, I haven't talked to her since the night that we last spoke. And he didn't really know what to say to it. So he kind of just didn't respond because he kind of felt like, you know, oh, so you don't really care, like about mending our friendship either then. So I've never talked about this on the show ever, not one time. And in fact, I have never talked about this publicly. My oldest best friend on the planet. Like the person that I've got a whole other life with, with the, with this amazing guy. And about three or four or five years ago, I got an email from the other side of the world and just said, Hey, we had a great run. And I wish you the best. That's the last you ever going to hear from me. And it sent and I checked it back. I emailed back and it had been like, you know, like slowly over time, I had a couple of kids. I moved across the country. This person moved across the world and this person got married. Like, so it was just, it was naturally happening. And I immediately hit reply and the email had already bounced back. And that's it. And it was, it breaks my heart because I've got so many extraordinary memories. And in honor of this person, I don't ever talk about this person. I'll never say their name publicly. I don't tell any of the stories. And there's some wild ones. I just don't bring it up. And that's out of respect for that person. Because that person made it clear that they've, they've, they're changing directions in their life. And, and this person used to do that. Yeah. And I hate it. And it is. And so any, like, I grieved it and it makes me sad. And then I'm going to do the best I can to not choose to be miserable today. Yeah. And anything beyond, I mean, it just is. And, and I think we try to hang on to childhood friendships when we, it's kind of like, I mentioned Todd and, and John, those are two of my closest buddies. Man, we did everything together. And then we all got married and we all still did stuff together all the time. And then we started having kids. And I think, I realized one of my buddies is like a literally dad, one of those crazy ones that draws literally lineups all day. Another one of my buddies was like a Cub Scout dad. And I was like, Hey, let's go out in the woods. Like you just find out these people are different. And there's a period of time when you don't hang out as much and life gets busy and it kind of circles back and then it kind of ebbs and kind of flows. And then somebody's wife, you know, gets a job and somebody else's wife gets sick. And then somebody moves. It's just the heartbreaking part of life. That some of these childhood writer dies. People grow up and then they change. And at some point, I don't like the language. I just reject the language. A relationship ran its course. I think that's stupid. But at some point, somebody said, I'm not putting any more gas in this tank. I'm going a different direction. Or this car is out of gas. I'm going to walk from here. I appreciate it. We've had a good run and I love the memories. And I think you and your husband have to be there. And you, if you have a principle that people don't talk to me that way and if they do, then they have to apologize or I'm cutting them out or I'm not talking to them or whatever. Then and that's going to cost this friendship or that. You got to sit stick by that and your husband looked at you and said till death through his part. Same with his buddy. And so it's one of those hard realities that you and your husband need to say, okay, this was a big part of your life, this relationship and it appears to be over. It appears to be over and I'll still cheer him on. And when he has a kid, I'll be happy for him to be exciting. But it's time for us to live in this new reality, which is he's choosing his wife. His wife doesn't want anything to do with us. And by extension, he's choosing to say, I don't want anything to do with you guys either. They're moving on. And then you got to be really sad because that was an important relationship to him for the first 10, 20, 25 years of his life. And now the adventure is going to be who am I going to make friends with now? Because you can't just not have friends, but we're going to go make new relationships. It's going to be awkward and weird and terrible and all those things. And you're going to find a couple of people that become really close friends to you. But at some point, you got to stop loving letting this other woman have so much power over you. You've got to stop trying to reclaim something that another couple is clearly saying, hey, guys, we're done with this relationship. We shall the best. And that doesn't mean it's done forever, but it's done for right now. And I think you and your husband need to say, OK, there's nothing we can reclaim here. They don't want us. And we're going to grieve and be sad. And then we're going to go find a new couple and divide them over and start with square one. Is that good news? No, it's heartbreaking, man. And I just know from personal experience, I've been there. I hate it. And it is. It is. And I'm going to choose the end of the day after grieving to look up and say, how can I make tomorrow brighter than today? Because what's the other option? I just refuse to sit in misery anymore. I think you'll call Amanda. Appreciate you. Wish I had better news for you, but I think you knew the answer. You know the answer. It's just about thinking that next step forward will be right back. Let's talk about Organify. I just got home from a week in the woods with family and friends and a few hundred high school kids at a summer camp. And as you can imagine, I ate camp food for a week. I didn't sleep great and high schoolers aren't the most hygienic creatures in the world. And now that I'm home and now that you're home for whatever you've been doing this summer, and we're both beginning to settle back into the rhythms of the end of summer start of school, it's critical that both you and me get back into our wellness routines. And for me, Organify is a cornerstone of my wellness routine. I blend the red and green powders together almost every morning, and I keep talking about them. I love my happy drops. And I've revolutionized my sleep with harmony and gold juice medley. I blend them together and drink them down right before bed. And I sleep like a baby. Organify helps me with energy and gut health with my sleep and with my mood. Here's the deal. I take Organify every single day. And my friends and my family are always stealing my stuff because it's the best of the best. And if it's good enough for me and my friends and my family, it's worth you trying it out. Go to Organify.com/diloni or use promo code "diloni" at checkout. That's Organify.com, O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I. .com/diloni and they're going to hook you up with 20% off everything. All of it. Invest in yourself with Organify. All right, let's go out to Phoenix, Arizona and talk to Martin. Hey, Martin, what's up, man? Hey, Doctor, how you doing? I'm doing good, brother. How are you? I'm all right. To be honest, I'm struggling right now. So last night. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Are you all right? Are you nervous? Are you running? I'm a little agitated because everything just happened so quick yesterday. The conversation wasn't even supposed to be about this. Hey, it's all good. I'm glad we're on the phone. Give me a favor. Take a huge, huge, deep breath as deep as you can. Hold it for 5, 4, 3, 2. Now take your shoulders and pull them up to your ears as tight as you can and hold it. Real tight. Flex it hard. 3, 2, and then drop them down. Take your hands and squeeze them as hard as you can. Tight, tight, tight, tight, tight, tight, tight. 3, 2, let go. All right, we squared up. Yes. Sorry about that. Bro, you don't have to apologize to me. All right. Sorry about that. Don't apologize. All right, holler back. I know you ain't gonna holler back, girl, but holler back. Okay, so what's up? So the conversation was supposed to be about me feeling basically me not being able to be happy even though I have everything in my disposal to be a happy person, a happy life, a happy family. Everything pretty well financially, okay, but I can't find what would I say, purpose, happiness. I would say anxiety about everything going on wrong at all times, even though it usually doesn't or it never actually happened. We'll go through your head, you know. Yeah. What happened yesterday? My, well, we got an emergency call from my family in Mexico that my grandfather was basically in that door. He, well, he went in for surgery, but I'm not going to say never came out, but it doesn't seem like he's going to come out. And yeah, and to be honest, we were really close. We were really, really close and I can't even make it out there right now because I'm working. Thankfully, my father and my mother were able to go out there and we had to stay out here and work. You know, we have a family business, so we can't close shop and go out there, sadly, but- Hold on, says who? Oh, well, responsibility more than anything. You can't take three days to go say goodbye. I mean, I want to, but I would have to shut everything down. What do you do? We fabricate a sheet metal for HVAC, air conditioning and never zone, I think, or zone. And right now, it's 115 degrees out of here. We're hauling, you know what I mean? Thankfully, my father and my mom and a couple others that needed to go, the family business, so that they needed to go, I went, you know, so it's his father. So is your mom and dad work with you in this business? Yes, they do. Yeah, they do. It's, it grabs whole little team going on with the family and your workers, you know, but they, they left and it's me, my brother right now, so we, and then the guys are working. So here's the, here's the deal, Martin, um, happiness is inside of you. It's not external. And until you make peace with Martin and you haven't until you decide Martin's a guy worth being loved and you don't believe that until you do, you're just going to keep chasing, man. And you're going to chase something off a cliff or you're going to chase something, um, so hard, you have to, your body's going to decide that alcohol or pills is going to be the best way to get through a day or the cheating on your wife a bunch is the best way to get through your day. But I mean, well, you got to get, you got to get peace, brother, from the inside out. But how would I go about it? Because I mean, I've, I've, I've gone to therapy. I've seen a few kind of counselors. I've read the, the put on. I've gone to the fourth double troops of the Buddha. I know you're chasing, bro. All that's out there. All that's out there, man. Who told you that performance is the way you get love, your old man? Um, I want to say that I just, that's, that's all we were always done. It's just work, work, and the beginning, you know, I mean, it was, it was work to survive, work, work to survive. We were migrated here and it was just work to survive. Father was able to establish a small business and 10 years later, right now, we're at a point where he thankfully can leave a week or two and then we can run the shop and he can safely be out there with his income, with, you know, me, his family and, and helping them out right now because I'm sure it's going to be really far in all of us, but I'm sure it's going to be a lot tougher and unbounded. But anytime, anytime, anytime somebody migrates, a part of a family packs up and says, life is going to be better somewhere else. We got to go make a run at this. All right. They leave roots in that soil. They often leave, leave blood in that soil and that disconnection, that piece of me that's over there, not or my feet are, is something that haunts immigrant families, right? Yes, yes. And, and for example, like right now, I can not say I'm, I'm part of, part of me is very at peace because my father wasn't able to make it. His mom passed away. She, she passed away over there and at the time he, he wasn't able to leave the country. So I saw how he took that, you know, I mean, not being able to see how he take it or say goodbye to your mom. He, he got to work. Yeah. He got to work and that's not a bad thing, but it's a Xanax. It's a joint. It's a, it's a, it's a bottle. It's a way to numb out really hard pain. Right. When did you come over? Oh, that was six year old, six, seven years old, six and a half, going to seven. Tell me about second grade here. Tell me about second grade, six year old Martin, come into second grade. Well, it was hard, you know, just tell me, tell me, I started school. First of all, well, I began in American school. I didn't know any English. Okay. So how long is it? No, see, you couldn't speak in at all. At all. I don't have nothing. Just nothing. Just a point country, a point of people, fine language. And I remember just, it was always just always on the defensive, you know what I mean? Always ready to, well, I mean, I was just, I wouldn't speak much at the beginning. I didn't know how to and then it was crying because I didn't want to go to mom. I was not understanding anything. I was being taught. It was, but then it, but then it related from the, sorry about that. But no, no apologizing brother. And then at home, mom and dad said, you better be grateful. No, no, I don't, you know, the same, my mom just tried always her hardest, but again, she has to speak English. It was that they were the dictionary, tried to figure out, translate, but we didn't have the internet back in the day, you know, just translate everything instantly. So we would have to sit there with the dictionary, figure out each word, what it meant, try to translate the sentence for it to make sense to us and then try to proceed with the actual task of doing the homework, all that, you know what I mean? This, and then my dad was working. I mean, it was, it was mom helping at school and I got the house and my dad just working 12, 14 hours a day. So here's what I know to be true. Your home was filled with deep, deep, deep love and your home was riddled with insecurity, economic insecurity, loneliness, disconnection from family roots. It was electric on that six year old little body. And my guess is that six year old is still driving you right now. What's coming next? When do we got to pack up and go again? Who's going to leave soon? What's where's the next punch coming? All right, all right. And when I listen to your story, all I hear is someone who is unfathomably strong and resilient. Bro, you had to look up, you had to look up human connection in the dictionary and you made it work. Dude, you got kids that throw their phones across the room because their self service is too slow, because I only got two bars. But I don't feel like I'm grateful. I don't feel like I'm grateful enough for. Because you haven't grieved, brother. You haven't grieved. And you keep waiting for this to feel a certain way. It's not going to. But you've got to grieve the fact that you got taken from your home when you're six years old. Doesn't matter that you think it's better now, it doesn't matter that you have some more of a car and air conditioner and a job and a business. That doesn't matter until you let little Martin go play. This was six-year-old you're supposed to do, man, with their friends. It's not right that a little six-year-old boy gets dropped in a box where nobody looks like him. He doesn't speak the language. All the teachers are looking at him. He's got to perform in this dance that he doesn't understand the steps. And I guess my student is always, it's all number excuse, but the way I put it is, I didn't have it that bad. How's that working for you, man? Because your body's shutting you down. Bro, I'm telling you right now, that is bad. That is. And it's the path that has brought you to right now. So you've made some incredible, you've done some good with those muscles you built, with the strength and grit and determination and resilience. You've done some amazing things. You have a family now of your own? I have a wife. Yes, I'm married. You love her? Yes, I do. Do you honor her? Take care of her? Yes. Yes. Does she love you back? Yes, she does. Okay. Exhale on that. Because your nervous system is still waiting for her to leave. Like you've been going through your whole life waiting for the next shoe to drop, right? And then eventually something happens. Eventually, grandmother passes away. And your body goes, "See, I told you." And then it clinches back up really tight and doesn't let you breathe and doesn't let you feel, doesn't let you sleep and just waiting and waiting and waiting and then granddad gets sick. Years later, and he goes, "See, told you." And that's just that six-year-old holding tight his backpack, walking into that classroom, listening to a bunch of strange voices and a strange language and strange culture and strange rules that you don't understand. So, if me searching for it hasn't worked and I understand that it's from within that it has to start the healing, how do I go about it? Because I've read about that. I've heard many hours of podcasts, many hours of audio books. You've got to stop listening. You're using information as a shot. Like you're using information as a shot of whiskey. It's a way to numb out and not go do. Tonight, here's what I want you to do, all by yourself. I want you to sit down the spiral notebook and I want you to write six-year-old Martin a letter in Spanish. And I want you to close your eyes before you do. And I want you to imagine that little boy walking into that classroom and you as an adult sitting in the corner watching him. And I want you to feel his jaw clench up and him trying so hard not to cry because he's tough and his shoulders tight and him just trying to disappear in that room. And I want you to write that letter as somebody who sees him. Dear six-year-old Martin, I see you and we're going to be all right. But I'm so sorry this happened to you at six years old. And then the second letter, I mean, hold on, there's a pause there. Just thinking of that causes your body to relax, right? Yeah, yeah, just acknowledging it and actually going back that deep, you know, thinking actually it was it was actually quite tough. It was for a long time. And by the way, it doesn't mean your dad did the wrong thing. He probably did the best thing he could. He probably tried to love you guys and take care of you guys and wanted to come to a great place for a great opportunity. It doesn't mean that's all bad. But that's still devastating for a six-year-old little kid. Both of those things are true. It doesn't mean your dad's a bad guy. Your mom did the most amazing thing she could to sit down the dictionary and work through it. Man, that's so amazing. And it's really, really stressful. Think of it this way. You blow your knee out today. The surgeon, an amazing surgeon, is going to give you the power to walk again. But to do so, they have to cut your knee open through all the cartilage and muscle and do all the stuff and sew you back together from the inside out. And you're not going to be able to walk right for six months. And it's still the right thing. See what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. And here's the second letter. How old are you right now? I'm 28. I want you to write a letter to 35-year-old Morton. And with the same clarity, you talked to six-year-old you. I want you to talk to 35-year-old you. And here's the man I'm going to be. I'm going to be a man who tips obnoxiously. I'm going to be a man who once a month goes down to the local elementary school in Phoenix. And I have lunch with the kids who can't speak English that well. And I let them see. Here's a picture of a guy who was just in that seat 30 years ago. And it does get better. And I'm a man who's a good dad. I'm a great husband. I own my own part of the shop. Now, like whatever it is. But you're stuck on a loop that it's always going to be this bad and I'm always going to wait for the next shoot to drop. And I can't see more than one step past tomorrow. And I want you to begin to open your eyes and look up. It's like you're walking, but your head is just staring at your feet. I want you to look up, man. There's a light out there. I've been trying. I've been trying. I know you are. I know you are. I can't tell you how proud of you I am, man. No, man. Thank you. Thank you for just listening and hearing me out. I appreciate it. Say, what's your granddad's name? It's Francisco. Good man. He was a great man. What's the funny memory of him? Give me a real quick, funny story of him. A funny story of him would be the four years ago, no, three years ago, right after COVID, everything started ending, we were able to take him to Vegas as a fact for the very first time. Did he get off the rails? 87 years old. We were in Vegas. We were taking shots. We were literally at the pool party with him in a wheelchair. It was amazing. We took it to all the places he had never been. He wanted to see it. It was a great time and a 97 year old at a pool party in Vegas. All right. That's your third letter. Dear granddad, dear abuelo, I'm going to miss you and remember that time. And here's what I, in light of the man you were, here's who I'm going to become. I went into that. And listen, those three letters to your past self, to your future self, to your granddad who's passing, that's the hard work. Reading another book, listening to another podcast is not the work, bro. Getting more information often isn't the answer after you already have the information. Do you, do you work out? Yes, I do. All right. Four times a week. You're probably like me. Have you spent days where you spent an hour researching what workout you should do instead of just going in the stupid garage and doing a workout? Yes. I spent hours reading the things to do. Yes. Let's go do something, right? Right. Your success, your next step is in the work you're not doing? Yes. I, bro, I think you, you have strength that you don't even know you have. You've got resilience that you don't even know you formed. And it's when you look in the mirror and you acknowledge I'm loved. If you've picked up the Bible, then the core message there is the, the, the deity of God, the power that is coursing through the universe looks at Martin and says, I see you and I love you. And nothing, nothing can separate you from that. And instead of that becoming like, well, I better dance right then. That should drop your shoulders and say, man, I'm anchored in, I can go do whatever now because I'm, I'm loved. I get to what comes next. Man, it's been my high honor to talk to you today, brother. Thanks for calling and I'm proud of you. If you want to be real gangster, dude, send me one of those letters and I'll read it over on the air. You're the one to six-year-old self, the 35-year-old self, or the one to party in Abuelo Francisco, getting it in Vegas in this wheelchair, man. That's awesome. Thank you so much for the call, brother. Call any time. I got you. We'll be right back. What's up, friends? Dr. John Deloney here. Tickets are selling like Madhouse for the money and marriage getaway happening over Valentine's Day weekend in 2025. I want you to join us here in Nashville for this amazing event. Married couples know that time, that is quality spent, time together is so important, but it's impossible to prioritize. And that's why this getaway is so important. It's a long weekend away for the two of you to intentionally focus on each other and on the marriage you are building together. By the time you go home, you'll walk away with new tools to not just talk about, but to actually utilize. You're going to learn how to communicate. You're going to strengthen your sex and intimacy, and you're going to deepen your connection with each other. Plus, you're going to take part in a bunch of Q&A sessions with me and Rachel Cruz, where you will give you real life answers to your tough questions. There are a few VIP tickets left up for grabs that include a meet and greet with me and Rachel Cruz, and we are so jazzed to meet you all in person. There's not many tickets left, so don't wait. Please don't wait. Please come. Go to ramsysolutions.com/getaway to get your tickets. That's ramsysolutions.com/getaway. All right, we're back. So, all right. Kelly's gone. Taylor's here. And I realized that I started the show by making a joke about Kelly. And people have made it loud and clearly think I'm too mean to Kelly. So we're going to end the show today, but we're going to go around the studio and everyone's going to say something nice about Kelly. And it's going to be harder for some people than it is for others, mainly because they're terrible people, not because of Kelly. So we'll start with you, Ben. Oh, me first. What's your favorite thing about Kelly? All right. So there's just so many good qualities. It's hard to pick one. It is so many. Gosh, she has a very inviting energy about her. So you kind of get drawn to the conversation she's having because she's just honestly like she makes fun of people because we also make fun of her, but she's genuinely a very nice and friendly and fun person to be. Oh, my bad. We're talking about Kelly Daniel. Oh, go ahead. Oh, sorry. I thought you were talking about different Kelly. No, I love Kelly. She's fantastic. Andrew. All right. So really, I love, I do love Kelly. And also she's my leader and decides my parades. So there's that. But even before she was my leader, Kelly's really smart. She has done so many crazy things, questionable things that she has a lot of life experience. And I, she's very wise in that because she made a lot of mistakes. I get to learn from those. Taylor. Well, I'm the actual nice one in here, but Kelly's been my lifesaver here. She knows my background, where I've come from. And she is not afraid to pull me aside and be like, this place is different. You can, you can be yourself and you can set boundaries. Very cool. Skylar. I think that I would read Kelly's memoir. And I just think that Kelly just holds so much authority. And I think like as a young woman, it's very cool to see like, oh, like everything does get better and you do grow an authority and confidence. I just think she's great. She's smart, pretty, rich, great at all sorts of things. She's a good hang too. I went to her concert with her last night. I was, here's my favorite thing about that concert. She took today off. And yeah, I'm here. What's your excuse, Kelly? Love it. Actually, she's one of my good friends. I, yes, I think that's probably it. She's the best hang. She is a great hang, honestly with that. And she's old enough to make not wise choices. And she's wise enough to shift those unwise choices into great times and that she's awesome. She's the best. So there we go. Is that good? Yeah, we love Kelly. We've corrected the good. I love Kelly too. With all my H-E-A-R-T of which I have one and she does not. Love you guys. Bye.
