[MUSIC PLAYING] Coming up on "The Dr. John Deloney Show." When my wife was pregnant, we had unplanned c-sections, which led to our daughter having a short stay in the NICU. The trauma led to postpartum depression. She feels like she gave up who she was when she became a mom. And I'm not exactly sure what I can really do to help her in all of this. And I'm worried about her. [MUSIC PLAYING] Whoo, what's up? This is John with "The Dr. John Deloney Show." Taking real calls from real people about your psychological health, your emotional health. What's going on in your relationships, in your whole with your boyfriends, the girlfriends, and husbands, and wives, and kids, whatever you got going on in your life. For 20-plus years, I've been sitting with hurting people, trying to figure out what's the next right move. And that's what I do on this show. Sit with people who are struggling to figure it out, and we parse through it as quickly as we can, and we get to what's the next right move. I'd love to have you on this show. I'd be honored to sit with you for a while. Give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291, or go to johndeloney.com/ask, A-S-K. Fill out the form, let me know what's going on, and it will go to the crew, Taylor and Kelly, and they will put together the best shows possible, and hopefully they pick your call. All right, let's roll out to Atlanta, Georgia, and talk to A-A-Ron. What's up, Aaron? How we doing? - Doing good. I guess I woke up and got put air in my lungs, so I can't complain too much, right? - I mean, you could, but that would mean you're a politician, so there you go. So what's up, man? - So my question is, how can I best show up, love my wife, and help her as she's struggling with motherhood? - Ooh, tell me about that. - So my wife and I have this amazing two and a half year old daughter, who is a girl that has a spirit that is strong, brave, and stubborn as all get out. I guess the best backstory I can give is when my wife was pregnant, we both talked and prayed a lot, and she made the decision to stay home with our daughter full-time, which is a big deal because it meant giving up a career she worked really hard for, and I mean, she was the first person to graduate college in her family. Well, the labor was tough, and we had a unplanned C-section, which led to our daughter having a short stay in the NICU, and because of that separation, my wife feels like she doesn't have the same kind of bond that my daughter and I have, and the trauma from the C-section and labor brought back a lot of trauma from her past and led to post-partum depression. After going through treatment for that, she's felt like just every day has been a struggle since motherhood doesn't look like what she thought, she feels really alone. Most of her, like her best friends live out of state and her, unfortunately, her family and mom isn't really a safe place except for one brother who also lives out of state, and this all kind of came to a head when we were in an argument over our daughter not listening and pushing boundaries, and she told me that she's not happy and that her soul is tired, and she feels like she gave up who she was when she became a mom, and that just hit me really hard, and I'm probably not given the statement justice, but just kind of the weight of that statement really hit me. So, I love my wife so much, and I just, I want her to be happy, but I'm not exactly sure what I can really do to help her in all of this, and I'm worried about her, and I hope that maybe you have some guidance or words of wisdom or something to kind of help me show up to help her through all of this. - Well, thanks for being a husband that loves his wife, man, and that once I do what he can to see her wake up with joy and laughter and fun and hope and light and happiness, man. Good for you. There's a lot of selfish husbands out there, and that doesn't sound like you. I'm gonna reverse engineer how you laid this out, best I can remember it, okay? And this is gonna be important for all of y'all, okay? Number one, she 1,000% did lose who she was. She is not who she was. Because before she was a woman traveling the world who had chosen to get married to a guy named Aaron in Atlanta, Georgia, and they were just doing life together, them two versus the world. Now she's a mom. Everything she knew before is now different. And same with you, you're now a dad, you're a father. Everything in your life is different now, and the people that I see struggle the most are those who try to hang on to the former life and not excitedly and a little with grief, let it go and then get to the business of building a new world. Because she's not gonna feel the same. If she's chosen to give up a career where she was fulfilled and had purpose and loved it, and she gave that up to go do something else, if she's trying to do something else and still have those same feelings, man, that's gonna be a recipe for being frustrated a lot. 'Cause it's different. If you guys have in your head that we're gonna have this kind of kid, and we're gonna teach that kid through two and a half year olds by design are human hurricanes, man. (laughing) Like if you get mad at a two year old for being anything other than a two and a half year old, hey, that's gonna cause some downstream challenges with that kid. Like their nervous system is being built in real time right now. And if that two and a half year old figures out that it's their job to keep mom and dad from getting mad, or it's their job to please mom and dad, so that mom and dad give love 'cause they don't get love if they don't, man, you're setting that kid up for a nightmare. - Yeah, and we got the door back. - Of course, I know you don't, I know you don't, but it's like, I remember being like, oh yeah, my son is two. He's supposed to throw things in, knock food over and trip and fall and bonk his head and cry. He's two, that's what they do. And my dad lectures, right? I was lecturing him at two. I was like, well, you know, and he would look at me and go, bah, bah, bah, bah, right, like there are two. (laughing) And so that doesn't mean you don't parent yada yada. Whew, backing up even further. You guys have attached a lot of causality to postpartum depression. It's because of the NICU. It's because of the emergency C-sections, because of it's because of it's because of it's because of. I'm gonna challenge you guys to let that causality go 'cause postpartum depression is a cocktail of a thousand different things. From childhood stuff to hormones to nervous systems to sleep, some of the oxytocin stuff, her narrative that she's not closer to the kid because of is simply not true. That's a story she's needing to tell herself because she's struggling in her new role, okay? And I'd rather that energy be spent on, okay, I am going to forge a bond with this new baby. And it's gonna not feel like I thought it was going to and it's gonna be more work than I was hoping it would be. Yet that's still the challenge in front of me. So let me back all the way out. Does your wife wanna go back to work? What does she wanna do? - She doesn't know. And I've had this conversation with her a lot 'cause I'm in support essentially of whatever she wants to do. It comes back to she doesn't know really if she wants to go back to work or at least not right now. And she feels like she's kind of lost her whole identity and that we talk about her going back to work. And I ask questions 'cause I don't die. So I'm like, okay, well, practically what do you think you wanna do? Do you wanna go back into the career you had? Do you wanna try something new? And she just right now, the response is I don't know. I don't even know what I like anymore. - Okay. Whenever somebody gets stuck there, man, woman, mother, father, single, no kids, whenever somebody gets stuck, we try to think our way out of this stuckness, try to think our way out of rumination and it doesn't work. In fact, it just pours gasoline on that fire. The only path out is right through it in some form of action. And what that action can look like is I will not look at social media, period. I will not apply for a single job, period. I will wake up every day with a mapped out plan going for a walk, having coffee with a friend. I'm gonna make a friend. I will force myself to make a friend. I will go for another walk with a baby. I will do, is like a limited amount of pushups during nap number one, like I'm gonna have a focused set of things I'm gonna do, actions I'm gonna take and I'm gonna do that for 30 days before I judge any of it. Or I am going to go get some sort of job for 60 days, for 90 days, I'm just gonna try it out. Because thinking about what it's gonna feel like you don't know, and here's what's unmoreing. She thought she knew what this was gonna feel like and so now her ability to trust herself is gone. And she's trying to regain trust by just sitting around thinking about it and thinking about it and thinking about it's not gonna work. So I think she has to take one of those two paths or does it have to be full-time work? When my wife went through this exact same thing, she got half-time work and realized I like the idea of working, I don't like the idea of an entity owning my soul and that started a five or 10-year journey. 'Cause she went from Dr. Deloney to hey miss as a public school teacher to full-time mom to, I don't know where I am in time and space anymore. - Yeah. - And have you, I'd recommend not asking particular questions about what you wanna do and instead shift the questions to things like, how can I love you? Has she said the dreaded, and by the way, very specifically, how can I love you today? How can I love you right now? And if you all begin to, she was gonna say things like, oh, I don't know, I don't even know. And say things and you begin to ask, how about dishes? How about bedtimes? How about filling the blank, making the bed in the morning? What are these little bitty things? And let's begin to baby-step our way towards actions, items. Has she said the dreaded, I wish I wasn't a mom? - Yeah, I mean, not in those exact words, but-- - And I call the dreaded because then whenever that thought or those words pop out of a mom's mouth or pop out of her mind, then she goes on the spiral, right? I feel guilty for even saying that, which makes you feel ashamed, and then I pick up my baby and they scream, and then I really don't like being a mom, and it just starts out like a down-the-drain spiral. - Yeah. - Man. Here's the magic move. Here's where y'all ultimately have to get to, okay? And if you just run home today and you're like, all right, I got it. And you say what I'm about to tell you, it will make things worse, okay? - Yeah. - But here is where y'all have to get to. The world y'all had is over. It no longer exists because you have a little baby. Y'all could go to the same jobs, make the same money, have the same amount of sex, and have the same dates in your world as you knew it is over now, because you've got an entire part of your brain dedicated to the provision and safety and love and care of a child, of a human. The sooner y'all can put a period at what was and begin deciding, practicing, tiptoeing, building what is to come. And by the way, when you're building what is to come, that gives you purpose. And just to be specific, 'cause I say that along the show, and people ask like, what do you actually mean? Let's take our calendar and just wipe it completely clean. Let's take our morning routines, yours included, and let's wipe it completely clean. Let's take our breakfast, our lunches, our dinners, our budgets, and start 'em over at zero. And even if you land on the same morning routine and the same budget in the same place, the act of intentionally saying, here's how we're gonna spend money now, here's how we're gonna both work now, here's how we're gonna make love now, here's how we're going to laugh and have dates now, here's what all that's gonna look like. That in and of itself is a forward-moving action. And by the way, before I let you go, this is a big one. Y'all have any sort of, you mentioned friends and family, friends, old friends are gone, family's not very accountable. Y'all have any sort of couple of friends, does she have any sort of women that she can text or meet up with or get together with a couple of times a week? - So she has a Bible study with women that she goes to, but that's why the way she's explained it to me is nothing that like connects on like a deep level for like that deep soul nourishing, cup filling kind of friendship. - Okay, so how old is she? - We're 36. - Okay, for most of y'all's entire life, up until y'all graduated college and maybe even into your first job, the world stuck you in the middle of relationships. - Yes. - And now you're in your mid 30s, headed to 40, and making friends is both A and nightmare 'cause there's no roadmap for it, and B, it's as necessary as oxygen. I heard a quote recently that I just loved and it's from another culture, but the idea was no woman should hold a crying baby alone. That is a modern invention and it's an invention of torture. No woman is designed to hold a crying baby by themselves. And that means, and by the way, you've got to be at work 'cause there has to be some money in that household, right? - Yeah, thankfully I get to work from home, but still I have to work. - Yeah, that can make it worse though. - Yeah. - 'Cause you're there, but you're not there. - Yeah. - Right? And you get tugged away and so your work slowly goes down a little bit and your relationship's not as what it was, all that. You might even get to a place where you go somewhere to work, maybe even in the mornings from eight to noon, you leave the house and go somewhere and let her settle into a routine. But she has to do the hard work to make girlfriends. Those deep nourishing things are not just gonna happen on their own and she's gonna suffocate without 'em. - Yeah. - Like if I had a prescription pad and I would prescribe that. And here's, it's as simple as looking at somebody in the Bible study and saying, "Hey, do you wanna go get coffee?" - That's true. I know that she, you know, I know she has reached out. It feels like maybe I'm not warding this correctly. So I'm just gonna dive head first into it. But she says she's reached out to a bunch of friends and like our neighborhood group and everything, multiple times and it's almost like silence comes back. Now I know that there are real world complications when it comes to some of that stuff of like, "Hey, well, you're coordinating how many different schedules "to try and go get coffee and things like that." But it feels like sometimes that she's just kind of given up on that. - That's right. - Does any of that make sense? - 100%. No, you said it perfectly, brother. A lot of times people reach out by doing this, "Hey, y'all wanna go get coffee?" Well, then everybody thinks I don't, I have an hour and a half on this day, but the back and forth and the reply calls and the icons and do you want to? Everybody just, nobody responds. They just don't respond. And so she has to take that extra step of vulnerability and reply to two people or reach out to two people and say, "I'm going to get coffee from eight to nine 30 "and I'm gonna walk to the coffee shop. "I need some friends. "I would love it if y'all came, I'm buying." Like be specific, go first and be willing to risk both saying we can't make it. That has to be the path forward because it's real easy to kind of lob a balloon grenade out there. Like, hey, anybody wanna go, whatever? That's just not specific enough and nobody wants to parse through who can go and win and say nobody responds. And then you are left sitting there going, "Well, nobody wants to hang out." That's not true. They just didn't know who was on the invite list and how and when and what's the summertime? It just gets chaotic. Hey, Susan, I'm going to get coffee today. I'm buying, it would mean the world if you came, I'm super lonely. That's how you connect and make friends in your 30s and 40s. I just bought concert tickets. There's some metal bands are running it back in Nashville. I bought an extra ticket to every show. My wife wouldn't go to the shows with me if I paid her. And I'm gonna reach out to some guys and say, "Hey, I got an extra ticket to this show. "It's on this night at this time. "We're going to eat beforehand, are you in?" And if they say, "No, they got a life, "I'm not gonna take that personally, "but I'm at least giving the chance that we're gonna meet up, "a chance." But the meta here is this action. Your wife has to get to a point where the pain of just sitting at home and not liking herself and not liking purpose and starting to slowly let that cloud go over this child. I don't even like being a mom anymore. This kid just wants, is just crying and being acting like a two and a half year old 'cause they are two and a half. And my husband's right in that room. And just that cloud of resentment. The pain of that has to become greater than the pain of risk and change. All right, I'm just gonna start calling people until I find someone to go out with me once a week. Hey, honey, I'm gonna tell you what I need right in the next 30 minutes, in the next hour. And let me give you one more piece of wisdom before I leave. When she says, "I'm the worst mom. "I'm terrible at this," whatever. Don't say, "No, you're not." 'Cause once again, you're somebody telling her that her feelings aren't valid. The way you refute statements like that is not, "No, uh," but you say them with, you respond to them with "I" statements. Well, my experience of view is that you're amazing. Well, when I see you, I think you're beautiful. I see you as someone who I just can't wait to kiss every time I walk out of the, whatever the thing is. Because you can't deny her feelings, but she can't deny yours either. Hope that helps, my brother. Aaron, you're a good man and you're a good husband. If she ever wants to call into the show, I'd love to talk to her too directly. And I know this is hard 'cause we're, it's kind of second and third hand. I'm a friend of a friend. But, hopefully I've given you enough that y'all can head into what comes next. I'm super optimistic for you guys, but you're not gonna have to walk your way into it, not talk and think your way into it. Thanks for the call, brother. We'll be right back. I cannot shut up about my Helix mattresses. My sister is staying with me this week and she came down looking this morning like she just woke up from a coma. And her first question was, what in the world is that mattress? And I sang it to her. ♪ Helix ♪ ♪ I got a Helix for every bedroom in my house ♪ ♪ I sleep on a Helix mattress every single night ♪ And I love it. My family loves it. Our sleep is getting better and better and better. As soon as you can, I want you to get online and take the Helix Sleep quiz. 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'Cause with Helix Sleep, better sleep starts now. All right, let's go out to Seattle, home of Alice in Chains and Pearl J. I'm gonna talk to Samantha. What's up, Samantha? - Hello. - Ayo, what's up? - Hi, not much, how are you? - You're like surprised, hi. Well, hi to you. - So bright. (laughing) - What's going on? - So my question today for you is if I am letting my emotions ruin my relationship, and should we focus on ourselves first? - Probably, the way you frame that question, the answer is probably yes. And I think you probably knew the answer to that question before you even called me, but I'd love to hear the story. Tell me what's going on. - Probably. So yeah, if it was any normal relationship, I'd probably agree with that, but you know, everyone thinks they're situations different. - Yours is special. It's super unique and special. (laughing) - All relationships are unique and special. All right, so go for it. - I know, so we have been together for a couple of years, however, both going through divorces. - Oh, Sam, are you serious? So y'all aren't, y'all are both dating married people? - No, no, no, no, no. We're dating, but we were going through our own divorces. - Are you, are both of your divorces final? - Minus. - So you're dating a married man? - I mean, if you want to work it like that, sure. (laughing) - How else would I work it? - I mean, I don't know, it's separated, it's not like-- - Y'all are together, y'all been together for a couple of years. - Yeah, it's a very long divorce for both of us. - Were y'all the reason for the divorce? Y'all getting together? - Oh gosh, no. - Sweet, yeah, this, I can already tell you this new relationship's got legs, as the great ZZ top saying. All right, so go for it. - So yeah, obviously stuck because we want to move forward and be together, but we can't. - But he's still married. All right, keep going. - Oh no. And then, you know, I think obviously divorce just totally changes people in ways I would never understand unless I went through it myself. So then there's a ton of hesitation to move forward and fear and it's just this messy, you know, I want to be with you, but I'm paralyzed and terrified and we both just want your absolute hauling back. So how do you-- - Why'd you get divorced? - Me? - Yeah. - I have been cheated on me. - Okay. - And how long did that relationship take to dissolve? - Longer than the marriage lasted. (laughing) - We went together for together about seven years. The marriage was only about three. - Okay. - And the divorce took like two or three years. - Good, God, why? Is it the divorce laws? - Laws, yeah, it's awful. It's-- - Well that's right. - Not the middle of COVID. You're trying to get divorced during COVID, huh? - I know, I know. It was really fun. - That was a nightmare. I mean, people doing Zoom hearings and what is, that was a disaster. - Yeah, it was very messy. - So where'd you meet new boyfriend that's gonna save the day? - We had actually already known each other. We were friends for a long time, but we're both just, you know, obviously friends married to other people when our separate ways and-- - You say he's just a friend. - Oh no! - And then not so much. And then we reconnected. I don't even remember how. And we were talking, realized we were both going through divorces and just kind of had a friend to lean on through that and evolve to more. - While y'all were both still married. - Sure. (laughing) - All right, so how can I help? Why do you think your feelings are getting too big? - Well, naturally we're designed to progress in relationships and move forward in situations. And I feel like we're just stuck in this crap tornado of being stuck sitting still and can't move forward because of pending divorces. And it gets to a point that it makes you a little cuckoo for cook-up offs. I wanna get married, settle down, have babies. And I can't because of ridiculous laws and pieces of paper that needs signed. So I don't wanna play house, but do you let the law control your situation? Do you set all that aside? And I am not playing house. We are moving forward, I don't know. I feel like I need like 10 weeks of one hour sessions of this conversation to fully dissect it. - Well, there is some of it, but let's get to the ownership part first. When you say I do and you enter into a legal marriage, you're entering into a legal contract. So you can't willingly hold hands with your forever person and walk into the contract and be mad at the contract as you try to terminate it, that it's got termination challenges to it, right? So it's not like you all are dating and all of a sudden you are trying to break up and there's all these arcane breakup rules. That's not the case. Cases you all entered into this thing and it's just a pain in the butt getting out of it. Now, I have sat with people who are trying to get divorced for ugly situations and I am disgusted by the process. Also, I'm disgusted at how throwaway marriages have become in our culture too. So I get both sides of the equation. Here's a bigger question. Why is it taking your husband so long? He's been trying to get divorced for two plus years, was taking so long. Or your husband, your boyfriend, sorry. - Right. - A bunch of legalities with businesses that he owns and her wanting her share of that. - Have they gone to mediation? - No. - Why not? - I have no idea. I've tried to stay out of it. - 'Cause I'll pose a challenging question. Is there a chance that he doesn't want to run right it from this thing into a new marriage with you? - That's kind of my question as well. I can't answer that for you, I don't know this dude. You tell me. - Oh no, it's not a question for you. It's just something inside that I've been asking, so. - I've never been divorced, okay? Close, but I've never been divorced. I do know that I skipped final exams to go on a date. I do know that I've been late to work or missed opportunities throughout my entire working career 'cause I wanted to be with my wife. And so, I don't know, I've been a part myself and I've seen other people move mountains, sign things away because they were ready to start a new life with somebody. And it sounds like you have found your person but your person may not have found you. - Right. - Or you may have been a great Xanax, relationally, an old friend, someone you could trust, someone who y'all could hook up, like it got through this messy couple of years, but man, if he's having to divide up his companies and go back and forth, hasn't even gone through a mediation yet after a couple of years, it's kind of bananas. I've never heard of that, but I don't know the legal proceedings in the Northwest. I don't know the laws, but almost all the ones I know of when there's this kind of stuff, she puts down a, I want this much of the companies that valued at this and it goes to mediation. And then he shows all the, here's how much these businesses are actually worth and by the way, what she puts down is always like a hundred times more value than these things are worth and that he comes back and says this and it's back and forth and back and forth. They sign a piece of paper unless one of them is incredibly obstinate and then there's more back and forth and there's another offer, but you get to a resolution. - I don't disagree with that. - But beneath that, there is a no Sam, you're my person. And the moment this is done, here's what the plan is going to be, especially after a few years. - Right. - Why hasn't he done that for you? - Yeah. I do not know. - Am I wrong or am I right? - No, I think you're right. - Have you talked about marrying him to him? - Oh yeah, we have. - What do you say? - He wants to. - I can tell. - But behavior speaks louder than words. - Yeah, behavior is a language. - Mm-hmm. - And he's saying, ♪ I don't want to marry you ♪ - Right. - And he's down on the phone, so let's stop talking about him. Like the thought of you having your heart broken for the second time makes me sad for you and I'm sorry. - No. - Or more than that, the thought of the impending loneliness makes me sad. - Right. - Have you had any moment in the last four years of processing your husband's infidelity and your marriage breaking up? Do you have kids by the way? - No. - Okay. But that in of itself is something to grieve 'cause you wanted kids, right? - Yeah. - Your picture of, how old are you? - 39. - Okay, your picture of 39 Samantha had children running around, right? - Mm-hmm. - Yeah. So it's not only the heartbreak, it's this life that you'd mapped out for yourself is not what you thought it would be. - Correct. - And that's really hard. - Edit. - What I don't want you to do is to sacrifice what you know is right and what you know love looks and feels like in a desperate attempt to complete this picture. 'Cause you're just gonna fast forward and amplify the heartache and the heartbreak and yet another separation except there's gonna be a child involved. - Mm-hmm. (sighs) - What's your next move? - Have some difficult conversations. What's that gonna entail? - Well, that's also what I struggle with with setting a boundary verse, presenting an ultimatum. Does that make sense? - Yeah, but when you do that, you're letting them decide. I want you for the first time to have some autonomy and ownership. For the first time in years, I want you to get in the driver's seat of Sam's life. What does that look like? It looks like you saying, hey, this relationship is effectively, as we know it is over, until you're not married anymore, period. I'm not gonna see you, I'm not gonna date you, I'm not gonna hook up with you. And I'm gonna be heartbroken, I'm gonna miss you, but you need to get your business set up. I mean, you need to get your business taken care of and you need to put some periods at the ends of all these sentences before you can be a part of my life. Ultimatums are generally, when we have both, like we've tied our lives together and someone is violating that core covenant, that someone's violating our core values. Then I'm gonna let them say, hey, we've bound our lives together. We're married, we're engaged, and you're doing X, Y, and Z, here's my ultimatum. But y'all aren't there yet. And he's got some things he's gotta shore up before, I mean, I think you are two years too soon. I think you're two years, you're, I mean, the thought of him getting done with all of this, two years of splitting up businesses and divorces and yada, yada, yada. And then just immediately running in and getting married to you and having a kid, really? - Right. - I just, I mean that maybe, maybe I'm out to lunch, but man, if that was the case, I would expect to him to have been super clear with you. Like, here's how we're gonna do this and here's one, we're gonna do this. Ugh, I'll just say it like this, Samantha, I think you're worth more than this. I think you're worth more than getting strung out. I think you're worth more, are strung along. I think you're worth more than waiting for him to make whatever decision he's gonna make. And yes, I think you're wise to not play house with a married man. Well, he's not really married, he is still legally married. You wanna talk about super complicating things? Geez, Louise, man. Him moving in with somebody while he's still legally married gives her a gift basket to take the court with her, his soon to be ex. I just think there's some time you need to spend figuring out what's going on with Samantha, and where Samantha wants to be, and what kind of life Samantha wants to build is gonna give her peace. Not running right into the next relationship when the guy is clearly not as into it as she is. This is one of those calls that breaks my heart, Sam, 'cause I don't see a happy ending right this second. I see one down the road, but not right this second. I want you to spend some time thinking through. I'm gonna send you a building a non-anxious life, my number one best-selling book. I want you to use that as a map and lay it over your life and begin to ask yourself, "Where do I have this angst in my life?" And I promise you it's gonna be bigger than just this guy. I think you're using this guy to duct tape over some moments. I think she'll call my friend, call anytime. And if he wants to call, I'd love to talk to him too. I just think you're worth more than what he's offered you. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. So my wife and I were meeting the other day about the back-to-school madness that is about to be honest. We've got my travel schedule, her work schedule, our daughter's new school and clothes and forms to fill out in all these online portals and my son's sports schedule, and he's gotta have shoes every two weeks 'cause his feet won't stop growing and how are we gonna pay for all this? And on and on and on. And when we step back and look at our schedule, it's so packed and we haven't even put in the things like exercise, date nights, counseling appointments, church and holiday trips and big home projects. And these are the things that make life worth living. And I listen to you all. This is your life too. And here's what I've learned. When it comes to taking care of me, my family and my work, I have to begin with the things that matter most and the things that keep me well and whole so I can wade into the chaos and be sturdy and present and strong. You too. So as you're planning your upcoming end of summer and fall plans, make sure you don't skip date nights. Don't skip regular exercise and don't skip your regular therapy appointments. Yes, therapy can be hard work but can also help make the rest of your life possible. When it comes to therapy, I want you to consider calling the team at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is a 100% online therapy, staffed with licensed therapists. It's convenient, it's flexible and it's suited to fit your schedule. With a good therapist, you can learn things like positive coping skills, how to set boundaries, how to deal with all the chaos going on in your life and how to be the best version of yourself. In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first. Never skip therapy day. Call my friends at BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/doloney today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp. H-E-L-P.com/doloney. All right, let's go out to Dallas, Texas, home of the almost last place Rangers in the same division as the almost first place Astros and talk to Alex. Hey Alex, what's up man? - Well, I'm just rooting on the Astros. Second place in the division, watching the Rangers just totally tanked the season. So, no boys. - My man, my man. What's up, dude? - Oh, nothing too much. I just got a quick question for you, Dr. John. I called a couple of years ago. He really helped me with my question then and I'm really hoping you could help me now. - Oh, that's awesome, man. I'm grateful that you called back. - Oh, thank you. Okay, so I've got my question and then a backstory, it's all written down. So I'm just gonna follow everything I've got written. So I stay on script. - All right, cool. - So, the question that I have for you today is how do I remove the shame that surrounds a vasectomy that I got from a previous marriage? And then the backstory of that is several years ago, my ex-wife and I divorced due to her choosing to walk away from the relationship. Since then, I've done a lot of tough grieving to come to where I am today. I can honestly say I have truly forgiven her and have never been in a place where I am happier and felt more purpose waking up each day. And I owe some of that to you and your team. I really appreciate that. But when my ex and I were together, we made a joint decision for me to get this vasectomy with the guidance of our doctors, counselors and mentors due to health issues we each were going through at the time. It was the right decision for us at the time. I have peace about it on it and do not regret it because I did it for my ex and I as future. Obviously, didn't see neither of us saw the divorce coming. After the divorce, I took a few years off of dating. When I was ready to date again, I started to seeing a really great woman. Sorry, getting a little choked up on this part. A month into our relationship, the topic of kids came up and I confidently shared for the first time with a woman after my marriage. That I had a vasectomy to which she looked at me and said, what is the purpose of a man who cannot bear children? Whoa, dude. I reject what you said when you called her a great woman. She is far from that. What nonsense? And that was followed by her getting up, leaving and never speaking me again. Good riddance, man. Good riddance. And I don't ever say good riddance, but good riddance. You don't need that. Yeah. Good God, dude. I'm sorry. A great deal of shame and embarrassment that I had never felt before, that I believe points to some unresolved trauma that I didn't know existed. It doesn't, Alex. It doesn't, Alex. I don't think it does. I think you got hit in the mouth by somebody with ill intent. Who's got her own demons. Who is potentially using you as a sperm donor to her imaginary life that she was hoping to have. And the thing is, Dr. John, is every relationship since then. I've been in a few cents then. The topic has never been poorly received. And in fact, has been honored. Of course. You got to let that go, but let me ask you this. Do you want kids? I think I do one day. Have you gone to a doctor to get your vasectomy reversed? By the way, it's not a vasectomy. It's a vasectomy. Have you gone to a doctor to get it reversed? I've spoken with some doctors, but I have not gone to get it reversed yet because the medical advice I've received is to wait as long as you can. But I have also heard mixed reviews. So I'm no, I have not gone to get it reversed yet. Well, have you gone and sat with the doctor? Not like actually in the clinic. No, but like, I want you to go to a clinic. And here's why. Here's what I want you to do. You're spinning out. Think of it this way. You are driving in on a dirt road with a woman in the car. And you for the first time hit the gas on that car. And she grabbed the wheel and spun it out. And then she got out of the car. And you're just spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning. I want you to go get some true, real information. I want you to get a, it's going to take you a couple of hours to give you years of peace. Because here's a question you need to answer. If I want to get this vasectomy reversed, can I do that? And by the way, I had a professor of mine who became a mentor and a great friend of mine who had a vasectomy, lost a child, and went and had it reversed. And they had a new kid. That kid's probably in college by now for crying out loud. Worked out great. I know it's not perfect for everybody, but I'm just telling you, I want you to go talk to a doctor and say, can I do this? And if they said, yes, then you go, whoo, cool. And you'll be with my ex wife and I, you know, one of the things that we, and again, I don't regret it, I don't regret it with her and I. That was our decision. Like I've made peace with that. We have the plan of getting it reversed or adopting. That's what both of us want it. And I fully have peace with that, but it's just that. For the first time in my life, it's every time I start a relationship, it's like, Oh, what if, what if this person says the same thing? I know how many, but why are you outsourcing your value to other people? You don't even know. Yeah, I think that's definitely that has been probably the hardest part of this journey. If I realized that there's some stuff that I still have to work on. What color hair do you have? It's like a, well, let me put it like this. In the winter, it's brunette in the summer, it's blonde. Okay. When you walk into a room, my wife is into dark-haired guys. Thank God, right? And she would swipe right on your picture because you have blonde hair. And there are some women that are into blonde-haired guys that would swipe right on my picture. Does that have any bearing at all on your general worth or value in the world? No, not at all. So when you sit down at the table, you are a man who, in concert with his wife, made a really significant decision for her health and potentially your health. That is a partner that millions and millions and millions of women would love to wrap their arms around because that's a guy that's not scared to do what's right for "us" over his ego, over his own dreams, fill in the blank, partridge and a pear tree. And if someone's going to sit down at a table and you have to hem and hawk, well, instead of saying, yeah, I was married before, do you have any shame about the divorce? No, okay. No, I don't. Then I want you to put having a vasectomy in the same boat, especially a procedure that I think, by and large, is reversible. Yeah, at least that's what the, that's what our, you know, when I got it, that's what the doctor told both she and I. Well, and that's why I want you to go get some information because I can still hear the dot, dot, dot in your mind. You don't still fully believe that it is reversible. Yeah. You don't fully believe that. Yeah, and I think there's just that. You've said it a lot in your shell. By the way, there's a lot of things that I picked up from your show that I really try and, you say in the near quite often. I do want to tell you, I say that publicly. Near. One of my favorite stories, my wife told me once. One of her, one of her elementary students. But it's the, you give permission to the three or four people to hurt you type of thing, right? You, you only give that to three or four people. And, and I feel like I'm very good at that as well. But there was just something about the, the power of that statement that she told it to me that just really rocked my world. It was the first time you were vulnerable after getting your heart broken. Yeah. And you had a lot of courage and you did a noble thing. And somebody took that noble courageous moment and they just stabbed you with it. Yeah. But I don't want you to attach a whole bunch of narratives and stories to that one person who's got no sense of decency, none, zero, zero. And by the way, I think it may be John Acup. So I think it's Acup that calls it speaker math. And speaker math is I can go do a talk. I can do a speech in front of a thousand people. Nine hundred and ninety nine of those people can be weeping and write me a note personally. It says, my life has changed. And here's the things I'm going to go do. And one guy can walk out and be like, and I kind of sucked. And dude, Alex, I won't sleep. I'll just stay up all weekend being like, what happened? How do I, right? But that's all in me. It's not all in that guy. That guy is just going to be that guy and more power to him. It's my work to say, dude, homie, you don't get a vote. Yeah. And so just guide a guy. Let me tell you what you did was a incredibly noble and brave thing. And it came at a great cost. It came at a great cost of a picture of you sitting around a Thanksgiving table. When you have, when your blonde hair has turned silver and most of it's fallen out. And you've got two boys and two daughters and some grandkids sitting around a Thanksgiving table. And you have a moment. You gave that picture up because your current wife's health was poor. Yeah, yeah. That's nobility. That's courage. And then she left you and just about broke your heart. I mean, broke your heart in a million pieces. Yeah. And unfortunately for you, it's like someone who got in a bad car wreck. And the first time they're back out on the road, somebody hits them. Mm-hmm. It's like hitting me, dude. Two things that don't happen very often happen to the same person right back to back. Yeah. Here's the practical steps. Number one, if you listen to the show a lot, you're going to know what I'm about to tell you. I want you to write her a letter, a short one. It says, "Your cruelty in a moment of vulnerability, encouraged for me, was really damaging. And I'm not carrying your crap anymore. I forgive you and I am moving on wherever you need to find peace. I hope you find it, but it will not be with me." Love, Alex. Not love, though, sincerely. And then I want you to set fire to that letter, not in the Dallas, Texas area, because it's too dry and you'll burn the whole city. I just leave it out in the sun and catch fire. There you go, exactly. And then any time that voice pops in your head or any time you're about to talk to a new person that you're on a date with and you feel yourself getting nervous, I want you to consciously drop your shoulders and smile and think to yourself, "You don't get a vote. I'm a noble meal." And then go forward. Yum. Okay. And you're going to have to practice that until one of the proudest things about you that you put forward is who you are in a romantic relationship. Not the thing you're ashamed about. Right. And bro, before the day's over, Alex, I want you to go get an appointment with a doctor, sit with a real doctor, get an examination. Is it the worst examination? It's the worst, the worst. It's the stirrups. Good God, it's the worst. And I want you to get the answers to your medical questions. So you know, so you know. And I personally haven't heard the weight as long as possible. I've never heard that. That doesn't mean it's not right, but I haven't heard it. But I think it's worth checking in with a medical professional to find out. And then, dude, we are head held high, shoulders thrown back. We are heading out into the world because somebody's going to be really, really fortunate to have you in their life and you, them. Thanks for the call, brother, Alex. I'm really, really grateful that you called me back. And I'm grateful that you listened to the show and that you are looking for ways to put some of these little nuggets into practice in your life. You're the man, brother. We'll be right back. What's up, friends? Dr. John Deloney here. Tickets are selling like madhouse for the money and marriage getaway happening over Valentine's Day weekend in 2025. I want you to join us here in Nashville for this amazing event. Married couples know that time, that is quality spent. Time together is so important, but it's impossible to prioritize. And that's why this getaway is so important. It's a long weekend away for the two of you to intentionally focus on each other and on the marriage you are building together. By the time you go home, you'll walk away with new tools to not just talk about, but to actually utilize. You're going to learn how to communicate. You're going to strengthen your sex and intimacy, and you're going to deepen your connection with each other. Plus, you're going to take part in a bunch of Q&A sessions with me and Rachel Cruz, where he will give you real life answers to your tough questions. There are a few VIP tickets left up for grabs that include a meet and greet with me and Rachel Cruz, and we are so jazzed to meet you all in person. There's not many tickets left, so don't wait. Please don't wait. Please come. Go to ramsysolutions.com/getaway to get your tickets. That's ramsysolutions.com/getaway. All right, we are back and Kelly is out of town. So we're a little bit unhinged. What's up, Taylor? All right, we haven't, am I the problem? All right, am I the problem? Is it about Kelly? Because she's gone. Hey, by the way, can we all just know how smooth this show is gone, Kelly? Well, thank you. Hashtag just saying. All right, Taylor, we're so good for it. All right, so my boyfriend has expressed his extreme dislike for my workout attire. I wear long leggings and t-shirts to the gym. He says he's jealous and I'm a hypocrite. As the rest of the time, I dress modestly, wearing looser fit business casual clothing. But when I'm at the gym, I wrap myself in Saran wrap that shows everything. This makes him jealous. Am I the problem for thinking he's being ridiculous? Mm. Oh, man, I've got some super strong feelings, but I'm kind of a coward. So you go first. What do you think? I think he's the problem. How so? Girls wear way less than that at the gym. This is, that's pretty modest for the gym. But you're a dad. That doesn't matter. I guess maybe I reframe the problem thing. So I, I'm thinking out loud here, okay? I think the problem here is that he said his feelings out loud and she makes her clothing choices out loud, right? She makes, she wears whatever she wants to wear. And those things clash and they don't have a remedy in their relationship for bring that together. That makes sense? So I guess I would say is she can wear whatever she wants to. More power to reduce is the 21st century, not your lights out. And he gets to choose really wants to be dating her or not. And he gets to say, hey, I think you're beautiful. And when you wear X, Y, and Z, the whole world can see everything. And I have the mind of a guy and I know what all these dudes in the gym are thinking when they see you because I think that and it makes me uncomfortable. And she gets to say, I don't want to date you anymore. But it's that idea that like I, I, I guess she gets to wear whatever she wants to wear. And he gets to choose whether he wants to date her or not. And vice versa. Um, I don't know. I feel like this is one sided because I feel like she's going to write in and say like, I'm just wearing whatever and he's going to be like, bro, right? And so I don't have his side of it. So is there a problem? Jenna, you're, you're filling back in. I am for a limited time only. Um, I don't know. I feel like she said what leggings in a t-shirt. I mean, kind of like Taylor said, there are some girls who wear biker shorts and like sports bra and that's it. And that's totally valid. That's fair. If that's what they want to wear to the gym. So I feel like if she feels comfortable wearing that, maybe he needs to assess why is he jealous? Like, what is he jealous of? Has there been trust that's been broken before in the relationship? Is that why he's jealous? How has that going to do with that? He's just a male. He knows what's going through the mind of every guy. I don't know. I guess they, they both maybe need to assess what's more important to each of them. The relationship or what she wears. I feel stuck. I don't think there's a clear cut answer to this one. Well, cause I think, I think the cool modern thing is like, he's not allowed to ever judge or ever say anything or ever have any questions about anything. And I'm kind of, assuming he's not like one of these red pill idiots, right? He's not like trying to control everything. Assuming he's saying like, yo, just FYI. This is what's in every dude in this room's head when you walk in. You're stunning. You're beautiful. And here's what this is. And she might go. That's a, I mean, I like feeling beautiful in front of all these people. Cool. Knock your lights out. They need to address that issue. But then I think the other, other side of it is like, dude, you don't get a vote. And she gets to wear whatever she wants to wear. And if that's not cool with you, then you need to decide if you want to be with this person or not. Is that fair? I feel like I'm just hedging like crazy on this one. No, that's fair. I feel like America's the problem on this one. Let's just blame the country. Canada. It's Canada's fault. I don't know. Sorry. I think I just blew that one. Whose problem is it? We'll blame the audience. See you soon.
