(upbeat music) - Hey y'all, welcome to The Proclosier Fix podcast, where our goal is to help one million homeowners successfully navigate foreclosure. I'm your host, DJ Alojo, and I am looking forward to today's podcast episode. If you do not know, we have a new book out called The Proclosier Fix, 12 proven steps to beat the bank, escape foreclosure, and turn your property into a proper asset. Definitely be sure to grab a copy, and like and subscribe. It helps the algorithm and helps homeowners who may be facing foreclosure. On today's podcast, we are talking about why the bank is not going away, and I'm with my friend and my good buddy, Jerry Sanders. Jerry, welcome to the podcast. How you doing today? - I'm doing well, DJ. Glad to be here. - Well, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to talk with our audience or our listeners. And for those of you who are not familiar with Jerry, he is a true professional. He has been in the real estate industry for quite a time, has done everything from being a landlord. I know he's split some properties, and he's also a node investor. And he is the bank in many locations, right? And so he has great experience and great background with him and his team, working with homeowners who are facing foreclosure and helping them get to win-win resolutions. And one of the things that he and I were talking about at a recent conference at the VersaFine Mortgage Expo was why so many homeowners have their head in the sand, and why they think that the bank is just gonna go away if they ignore the mail, the calls, and everything else. And so in today's podcast, he wants to kind of provide homeowners who face it foreclosure, some insight, and what to do when the bank comes called. And so Jerry, do me a favor and just let our listeners know how to have a very high level, how you and your company interact with homeowners who are facing foreclosure. - Sure, as you know, DJ, we buy non-performing notes and we buy them all over the country. What we try to do, our goal is to make sure a homeowner stays in their home. We are not trying to take a home, we're not trying to foreclose all this other kind of stuff. We wanna be able to come up with a solution, keep people in their homes, and also so that we make some money. And as a bank, we make money by collecting payments. So that's first shield, that's what we try to do. I think we're pretty successful at it. We go that extra mile, and typically what I tell borrowers is I am the borrower advocacy manager. So I'm going to be doing whatever I can on your behalf to come up with a solution to help you stay in your house. - Well, there's a couple things that I wanna unpack there, just for our listeners who don't know kind of the terminology. So Jerry said non-performing loan, right? And it sounds very simple on the surface, a non-performing loan is just a loan that's not paying. So someone has not paid on loan. And so it goes from performing when someone is paying to non-performing, right? And so Jerry's company buys those loans that are non-performing. And so you're buying loans where people have not paid for months, weeks, maybe even years, right? - Yeah, I know one of the notes we bought, the borrower hadn't paid in 10 years. - Wow. - So a decade. - Yeah, and you know, we came up with a plan. - Okay, so Jerry, walk our listeners through what that process looks like. And I know for folks who may be in industry, you know how it goes, right? But if I'm a homeowner, I haven't paid for 10 years, I'm in a lot of Atlanta, the note's gone. I mean, I think the loan is gone. There's nothing anybody's doing. Nothing's long gone. It's been 10 years. And then all of a sudden, you know, you coming knocking. So help us understand that process and help our listeners understand what that looks like for them when the bank comes called. - Absolutely. So when we buy a note, the first thing that happens is the loan company, the mortgage company, whoever that used to own that note, sends a letter out to the borrower, letting them know the loan has been sold. So, you know, you're gonna see a name that's familiar to you. So you know that you're not getting scanned. The next thing about 15 days later, you get a letter from us. It basically says the same thing that the former lender said, but it gives you, you know, contact information, phone numbers, word of mail, your payments, what your payments are, all that kind of stuff. So now you know, yep, we're legit. These are the folks that are supposed to be handling your mortgage. Then we will start, once that happens, you know, there's some statutory requirement that we gotta, you know, give you like 15 days or something where we can start talking to you. Then we will start calling. We'll call, we'll send emails to try to get your attention and get you to respond to us. We'll even, you know, put you on a sequence where we start sending letters. You know, again, just reminding you, we're here, we want you to pay, give us a call so we can kind of work out something. And that is the cycle that we go through. We escalate over time. And eventually, if a borrower doesn't communicate with us, we will probably send a demand letter. And at worst case, we'll start the foreclosure process. - So at what point will you all just stop and just say, oh, this person, you know, is not responding, I'll just leave them alone. - We don't do that. (laughing) - That wasn't the point. - So we're calling me, if I'm a homeowner and Jerry is calling me, and I just keep on hanging up on Jerry or I keep on sending him to voicemail, you will just go away. If I block your number, you're still gonna keep calling me? - The worst thing you can do is have blocked the number. We have one guy, you know, it's a note that we're working on as we speak. We went through that process. And, you know, we started sending him letters or phone calls a whole bit. One day he actually did pick up the phone and, you know, he answered the phone and he goes, no, this is the wrong gene, you know. So you could please stop sending me letters and calling me. This is the wrong gene. It's like, dude, we're sending the letters to the house that has the mortgage done. (laughing) So you can pretend that you're not the right person all day long. But I'm not going away. And by saying that you're not the right gene, I know you are. (laughing) - I was saying, I'm not the right DJ. So, you know, I'm sending you all for Jerry. - Yeah. - So I, I, I like that point. I asked those questions and we're laughing about it. And I know that for the folks on the other end who are getting the letters, it's not funny. But I think that you have to look at it from the lender's perspective where, as you said before, you know, we're not in this, you're not in this, your company doesn't exist. The employees that you have, the investors that you have, they're not in this just to, you know, smile. They're in this to make a profit. And like you said, the way the bank makes a profit is by collecting payments. And so if they purchase something, they intend to make that profit. And so for the homeowners out there who are thinking through this in their head of like, what do I do? How do I navigate this situation? One thing we always like to say is ignoring it does not help. The bank will not go away. And so that's, you know, why we're joking about it because this happens all the time. That people get mail, they get letters. And what I always tell folks is that if somebody says you, sends you a piece of mail and it's certified, they're sending to you for a reason. They want you to get it. Because if you're sending out mass marketing, you're not sending it certified because you're not paying an additional $34, you know, for somebody to have the signature confirmation for, you know, the postal person to be able to scan it and say, you know, they delivered. And so if it's certified, you may want to take some time and open it because they want to get to it. Yeah, yeah. You know, we've done everything that we can to get your attention and we are trying to get your attention. You know, as you mentioned, the certified letter, it costs money. We, you know, to send a certified letter, I have to drive over to the post office, stand in line for 15 minutes to send you a letter. So that means I'm serious. I'm not going to go away. I really do want to try to contact you. The problem that the borrowers have is that when you ignore it, it's, it just, it just keeps building. And if you, if you get the letter, you can, it gives you a phone number, call. At a minimum, start the conversation, start the dialogue. You know, tell me, I can't afford it, and then we'll work out something. Yeah, it is funny because of what I always like to tell folks that, you know, banks have emotions too, right? And what I mean by that is obviously banks are institutions and lenders are typically LLCs and companies. But no one likes to be jerked around. Nobody likes to be played with. And it's very frustrating when you have those borrowers who play around with you where they'll act like they're trying to engage with you, but they're not really engaging. Or their engagement tactics are just stall tactics. You know, when that happens to you, what disposition do you take as the lender? Well, you get annoyed. So I'll give you an example. Like I said, we escalate. But one of our escalation techniques, you know, after we've sent letters to you, I will actually send somebody out and knock on your door. You know, knock on your door. Keep put the letter in your hand. So not just send it certified. So there's some guy that shows up at your house, says, hi, I'm from First Shield. I have a letter here. They want to talk to you. And so I'm doing that to get your attention. Now, I've had cases where people have been very polite a lot of times. They're very polite with that door knock. And the door knocker leaves. They close the door. We never hear from them. So yes, I get annoyed because I'm spending money to try to get your attention. And oh, by the way, ultimately the borrower winds up having to pay for that guy that knocked on the door. Yeah. So it is very annoying. And, you know, when I say it escalates, one of the problems that borrowers will have is that if I do go to foreclosure because I've had to hire a lawyer, I can't easily stop the process. So we want to do everything that we can to mitigate getting to that point. OK, so I hope our listeners understand. You said something there that was intriguing, that if you do escalate and you hire a journey to start the foreclosure process, you can't easily stop the process. You know, I hope our listeners understand what you mean by that and what that costs them. OK, so most people have not read their mortgage. And I'll be honest, before I got into this business, I never read one of my mortgages either. I'm guilty as well. I'll just have to be signed. And I go, well, you know, somebody gave me a loan. So I'm good. But in that loan, about 3/4 of the way down the first page or the second page, it says that the borrower is going to pay all the legal fees for collection. So that means that they're going to pay their legal fees and they're going to pay the banks legal fees. So that is part of the issue and part of the reason why we say we don't want to try to go to foreclosure. Because if you can't afford the mortgage, you can't afford the legal fees either. So those are going to be part of the process. So that's one of my issues. The other is if I have a situation where I do take it to foreclosure, there is a legal process. And that legal process has gates and responsibilities and things that happen. And I must meet those requirements in order to be able to foreclose. So if I have to-- let's say a good example. If it's a property in North Carolina, after I send you my notice of demand, I have 45 days before I can do anything. But then day 46, I must start doing something. Because the courts will get upset with me, the lender, if I don't do what I'm supposed to do. So I must do that next step. And then once that step starts, then the courts start another clock. And then that clock says, you know, after x many days, then there's another step that I'm supposed to do. So that's what I mean by it's not easy for me to stop. Because the courts have a process, or a legal process, must be done in order to foreclose. And I must follow those rules. Yeah, the other thing too, and I think you alluded to this, but then explicitly say it, is that with each of those steps, comes additional cost. And so if you want to start talking to me, and I'm in the middle of a step, even if the attorney has a file for documents, but they drafted the documents, you're still paying for those documents that they drafted, right? Because that's an expense that's going to come. And so, you know, we all know attorneys like to deal a certain type of way. And so, you know, if you're thinking about your case at 3 a.m. in the morning in charge of $600 an hour, you know, you don't want to be that, but that borrower was getting stuck with that deal. Yeah, that's true. That is absolutely true. So if you wait until the lawyers get involved, realize that you're paying for two lawyers. You're paying for my lawyer, and you're paying for your lawyer. So you need to talk to us before then, so that we don't get into that situation. And, you know, I was going to be the same, you know? No, 100%. One of the things I was going to ask you about, Jerry, 'cause I've seen this a lot, is maybe let all listeners know about, you know, how difficult it is for you to get a modification done for a homeowner. And what I say how difficult it is, is how many of them actually get to the finish line, although you may send the paperwork. Okay, so I can do a modification easily. You know, when we buy a loan, you're buying, we have the ability, 'cause we're the bank, we can change how much you owe. We can change the interest rate. We can make it longer. You know, everybody thinks a 30 year mortgage is the most you can do. I can make it 45 years if I wanted to. So we can do things to help the homeowner, you know, reduce their payment. So all of those things can be put together into a loan mod and then you're off to the races. Now, one of the things that will happen though, we will not give them a loan mod on the first call. What we will typically do is come up with a temporary plan to get people back into the habit of paying every month. And then at the end of that temporary payment plan, then we'll modify the loan and have no problem with it at all. I actually love to modify the loans. - How many times when you talk about a temporary payment plan or something like that, do you actually get somebody to go through with it? So, you know, for example, one of the things that we find is that, you know, we have people that we work with and our modifications, you know, we'll mod on it from the start. You know, I know some people like temporary people like, well, we'll mod it from the start if they come with a big up down payment. So if they come with anizable down payment, we'll mod it from the start. But what I've seen from some folks is, some folks come with a down payment and they call you gun hole. I want to pay this right now. I'm ready to pay. Who do I call? Who do I send the money to? And we're like, oh, wait a second. You know, you're not trying to pay a full reinstatement, right? You're trying to pay, you know, like if you're not, we can't collect money unless you're reinstating. But one of the things that I see is that we'll draft the modification paperwork, send it to them, you know, give them a deadline and then it sits for days. And then you either, they go go, should you lose contact with them? Or the situation where they call you after the deadline for the modification, like, hey, you know, is this, is this still good? You know, so how often does it teach that happened to you? 'Cause for us, it happens, you know, about 65, I'm not 65, sorry, 35% of the time. - Yeah, good question. I'm going to say it probably happens to us half the time. And, you know, and the reason is because a lot of folks are just trying to push the ball down the court, you know, they're not really trying, they're not seriously interested yet at getting the loan back reinstated. They're just, again, getting back to your head still in the sand, you think that by telling me that you're going to do the mod, or telling me you're going to do the temporary payment plan, that that's enough. But remember, I'm in the business to collect payments. So if you've come up with an agreement with me that says you're going to pay me, I'm looking forward to getting those payments. And so if you, if mentally you're not ready to make the jump, understand that just by telling me that you are signing some paperwork and then not coming through, that does not help you. And actually it'll put you in a worse situation because as DJ said, as banks or bankers, we are still human. So if I feel that you have been just trying to play me, then the next time we have a conversation what's going on in the back of my head is you're playing me. And you're telling me what you think I want to hear as opposed to telling me what you're going to do. - You know, Liz, there's, you have learned a lesson. Don't play with Jerry, you know? (laughing) I'm not going to play away, right? Well, Jerry, man, I appreciate you sharing that content and information with our listeners. This brings me to my favorite part of the podcast, which is our bow tight route, is where our listeners get to tie one on with our guests, Jerry Sanders, all right? The B and bow tight stands for your best advice for somebody facing foreclosure, the O stands for one thing you're grateful for, and the W stands for your wildest or most interesting foreclosure related story. So B, what is your best advice for somebody facing foreclosure? - My best advice is to contact the lender as soon as possible, start the conversation and work with the lender to figure out a way to come up with a payment that you can afford for the duration of the loan, awfully. - One thing you're grateful for? - I am grateful for the opportunity to be able to do this, to be able to help people, to be able to provide for my family by doing it. At some point, one of the things that I'm gonna be putting on my website are some of the testimonials from some of the folks that have paid off their loans, 'cause it feels good when you hear people say, if it wasn't for you, I would have lost my house. That, you know, I can't, you know, and when you think about it, for most of us, our houses are the bulk of our wealth, and it takes years, decades, to be able to build that up and to be able to say, yep, I still have my house because you let me stand it and you helped me figure it out. - And that's an awesome feeling, and I think it's the same reason why we have the foreclosure sick family. It's trying to help people who find themselves in situations they never expect it, but are good people, and there's a solution. You just gotta get the right help. Your wildest and most interesting foreclosure-related story, and I know you have a lot of them, but we want the wildest and most interesting. - Yeah, the wildest. Well, there's the one that everybody hears about is the DC, so I'm not gonna do the DC one. If you wanna hear about the DC one, you're gonna have to look at another podcast. I'll talk about one that we did in Louisiana. This is a woman, you know, family home. Again, one of those that hadn't paid in, you know, maybe four or five, six, seven years, something like that. We worked with them, temporary payment plans, all this other kind of stuff, none of that worked. You know, they just kept falling off the ladder, you know, it just didn't work. So finally, we start the foreclosure, and you know, we're going through all of the steps. The courts get us to do what we're supposed to do, and the borrower finally had just before all of the foreclosures, the borrower had ghosted me. So they weren't returning my phone calls. They weren't, you know, I thought we had a good report. None of that was working. So we go to foreclosure, now the borrower's starting to call. What can I do? What can I do? What can I do? And again, remember I said, we had a temporary payment plan, you fell off several times, then you ghosted me, DJ said, "Don't mess with Jerry." (laughing) So, you know, it's like you're playing me, so I'm not really believing you. You know, it's like, can you stop the foreclosure, can you stop the foreclosure? I can't do anything. So, you know, she keeps calling, we're getting closer and closer and closer to the sheriff's sale. Finally, 48 hours before the sheriff's sale, she calls me up on my cell phone. You know, it's like in the middle of the evening, I'm at home, "Hey, I got some guy on the phone here." And he said, "He's gonna pay off my loan." It's like, "Well, I don't believe you anymore." (laughing) And the foreclosure is now 36 hours away. She goes, "Well, I got the money, what do you want me to do?" I say, "Well, call the lawyers." Again, I don't believe you. So, next morning, I get up and I see this email from the law firm that says, "Stop foreclosure. I have no idea what happened to me." And true enough, she had wired the entire amount of money to the law firm to stop the foreclosure. - Why? - And I sit back and I go, "Why did you wait that long?" (laughing) You know, that's the ultimate end at the courthouse steps. Because if you hadn't gotten through to the law firm, the house was gonna be gone. But, you know, they wired the money. I was real happy, obviously. But, you know, that's one of the wilder ones. - Now, man, you know, it's interesting how the pressure of a foreclosure brings about resolutions that would ultimately never come to pass if it was not out there. I've seen that happen numerous times. Both in person, where, like, you know, somebody's coming to the courthouse with cashier's checks to pay the lender, like, just like, like, out buyer, like the homeowner, like, "I got the money right here. Like, stop the foreclosure." Like, "Whoa, are you serious? Like, where was this long model?" - Yeah. - Well, that is an amazing story with, I'm thankful for a great indie audit, right, that it is in sale. Jerry, again, we appreciate you coming to the podcast and helping our listeners understand the mindset of a bank and letting them know that the bank is not going away. Do me a favor and let our listeners know if how they can kind of follow your journey. I know you also have a podcast, too, so please make sure you let them know about that. - So, if you want to find out more about what we do, you can go to our website, www.firstshieldfinancial.com. You can find out a little bit more about us through some of our podcasts, as well. And we are on YouTube. It's a Kim and Jerry podcast, again, First Shield Financial, or Incredible Underscore Returns. You'll see what we do and would love to talk to folks about what we're doing in the notes space and hopefully we can help some folks stay in their places. - Awesome, man. Well, that brings us to the end of the podcast. As I said before, if you are not subscribed, please do me a favor and hit the subscribe button. It helps the algorithm and it helps us reach our target audience, which are homeowners who may be facing for older. As always, I appreciate you for listening. Thank you so much. I see you, Jerry, with the book. I appreciate it. I love you. God bless you. We will see you soon. - The views and opinions on this podcast are for informational purposes only and should not be construed as legal advice. If you have a specific legal question, we highly recommend you contact a qualified legal profession.
