- Can I fit my fly boxes, lunch, and a raincoat in the standard Orvis Sling Bag?
- A tip from a listener on how college fly-fishing clubs can get involved with the Trout Unlimited Five Rivers program
- A tip for taking notes on your phone to remind you of podcast questions
- A tip for using desiccant packages in your fly boxes
- Should I tether myself to my 7-year-old daughter when we are wading together?
- A tip from a listener on "urban blue lining".
- If I fall in, what steps should I take to dry out my gear?
- What would be a recommendation for a basic surf fishing outfit for the East Coast, Florida, the Caribbean, and Central America?
- How can I manage the fly line around my feet when it gets stuck on obstructions in the river?
- Why don't they make longer fiberglass rods?
- If I am catching more whitefish than trout, should I move?
- What is the best way to fish nymphs without an indicator?
- Is dry fly fishing on a lake better in calm or riffled water?
- A hot tip from a regular listener on a great fly pattern
The Orvis Fly-Fishing Podcast
Peacock Bass in South Florida, with Capt. Drew Rodriguez
Captain Drew Rodriguez [27:23] is the only Orvis-endorsed freshwater guide in Florida and specializes in largemouth and peacock bass in the canals near Miami and also the Everglades. In summer, peacocks are his main target as they just love hot weather, the hotter the better. He discusses how to find them, what flies to pick, and what tackle he recommends. They are a year-round target in the Miami area and, according to Captain Drew, a 30-fish day is a slow one. In the Fly Box this week, we have some interesting questions and great tips from listeners, including:
I welcome to the Orvis Flyfishing Podcast. This is your host, Tom Rosenbauer. And this week, my guest is Captain Drew Rodriguez. And Captain Drew, it has an interesting business because he is a fly fishing guide in South Florida. But unlike nearly every fly fishing guide in South Florida, we know of. He's a freshwater guide and he specializes in largemouth and peacock bass and some of the exotics that you can find in the waters around South Florida. And we're mainly going to talk about peacock bass during the summer because that's what he does most. That's what's best during the summer down there. He says that fishing for largemouth is mainly a night affair this time of year because the water is so warm. But the peacocks love it. And he can catch him year round there and catches a lot of them. So he's a great storyteller. I think he'll enjoy it. And if you are in the Miami area, either you live there or you're there on business or pleasure, you may want to listen to this and learn how to chase peacock bass. Before we do the fly box, a couple of things. One is summers here and summer means showers, afternoon showers in a lot of places, particularly thunderstorms. And you need a rain jacket. And my favorite summer rain jacket is the Orvis ultralight waiting jacket. It packs down quite small. It's totally waterproof. I've worn it for weeks at a time and stayed dry. But it packs down. It'll go into your sling bag or your backpack or whatever and takes up very little space. And yet you can pull it out whenever you need it. So it's a great I feel that it's one of the best rain jackets I've ever worn. And I think it's worth a look for your summer fishing. Another announcement I still have a couple of slots open for my three rivers ranch trip in Idaho September 28th, October 5th. It's a great trip. I love three rivers ranch. I love the fishing there and the guides, one of my favorite places in the world. And still have a couple spaces open. So if you want to fish with me, hang out with me for a week or so. Contact Orvis Travel. The trip is listed on the Orvis website under Idaho. And I hope you can join me. I love meeting podcast listeners in person. And now the fly box. The fly box is where you ask me questions or you give me tips you want to share with other listeners. And I sometimes read them on the air. I read them all. I don't read them all in the air. If you ask me for a list of flies on your trip to Scandinavia or you ask me for recommendations for fishing in the Pacific Northwest. Sorry. I don't do that. But I do answer technique questions and not questions and tackle questions and things like that. So anyway, if you have a question for me that doesn't fall into where to go or what flies to take, you can reach me at podcast@orvis.com. Just type your question in your email or attach a voice file. And maybe I'll read it on the air. And this week, my first email is from Ewan from Wisconsin. I was wondering about the Orvis sling packs. The two I'm looking at are the standard and guide versions. I don't carry the whole kitchen sink when it comes to flies and gear. So I was thinking about purchasing the standard because I also want to be able to carry a jacket and my lunch, which I'm sure I'm not sure would fit in the standard size. Any thoughts? Yeah, Ewan, you're not going to be able to fit, probably not going to be able to fit fly boxes and a few other pieces of gear and your lunch and your rain gear in the standard sling bag. That's more for carrying a bunch of fly boxes and a bunch of tools and leader wallet and tip it and things like that. So I think you're going to have to go with the guide version. That's the one I use. And I do recommend the waterproof version because I'm short and I don't like getting my flies wet. Here's an email from Wiley. I'm a collegiate club president at Les McCray College in North Carolina. We are part of the TU five rivers program, which is develop to bring together conservation minded fly fishers who are attending college. The program is fast growing and has been a tremendous amount of help to collegiate clubs. Orvis is one of our sponsors through the program and have been a tremendous amount of help to get more students into the sport. And so Wiley wants to remind people that if you are a member of a college fly fishing club or you're an advisor to a college fly fishing club or you know of one, you should contact Trout Unlimited through their website about the five rivers program because it is a terrific program and it's done a lot of wonderful work with college students getting them involved in cold water conservation. So if you do, if you are a member of a collegiate club, contact Trout Unlimited and see if you can get involved with that program. Hi, Tom. This is Joe from Illinois and Montana from Big Sky to Big Corruption. I'm a long time listener and first time caller. Your podcasts have kept me educated and entertained for years. Thank you. I have two questions. When fishing the Madison River in Montana, I often land a few white fish. If I'm catching more white fish than trout or all white fish, should I move to another portion of the river or other trout in a different depth? Second question is what's the best way to fish nymphs without an indicator? Some days I just get tired of staring at a barber. Tight lines. Well, Joe, often you'll find white fish and trout in roughly the same place, feeding in the same area. So you may have to sort through the white fish. I mean, white fish are fun on their own. They fight well and they take a fly pretty well. But if you want to try to avoid white fish, the only thing I can say is I tend to find them in a little bit deeper water than trout. So you're catching a bunch of white fish, maybe go up above them where the water is a little faster and shallower. That's typically where I find the trout as opposed to kind of down in the deeper gut of the pool. So you can try that. But it's hard to keep them off. They're pretty eager feeders. So you may just have to deal with them. The one thing you might want to try is to fish a big dry fly instead of a nymph. And that will keep most of the white fish off your line. Regarding the best way to fish nymphs without an indicator, well, my go-to way is a dry dropper, as I've said many times here where you're fishing a dry fly at a nymph at the same time. But of course there's your own nymphing, which fishes nymphs on a tight line without an indicator. And then there's the old naked nymphing technique, which is the way I learned to fish nymphs, which is fishing nearly straight upstream on a floating line and just watching the tip of your floating line or your leader if you can see it on the water looking for little pauses in the line. And you probably miss more strikes doing it that way. But it is a nice clean method. And it particularly works well in fast water. Naked nymphing works well with a floating line, longer leader, weighted flies and just fishing nearly straight upstream in faster water. The fish will usually hit the nymph hard enough to make the line dart forward. And you just set the hook whenever your line tightens or darts forward. Alright, let's do another email. This one's from Kyle. First tip, use your note section in your phone to record tips or questions to be later asked on the podcast. I often think of question and tips while fishing alone, only to forget them later. Second tip revolves around keeping gear rust free. I have a close relative who works in a pharmacy and about once a year ahead of them collect all the desiccant packs that come in every pill bottle. This ends up being about 500 packets. I put one of these in every compartment of all my tackle and fly boxes, as well as in my gun cases and tool boxes. And I haven't had a rusty hook in years. Next time you pick up your arthritis, pain, constipation, diarrhea, water, blood pressure or heart pills, ask your pharmacist if he can spare some of those packets. Let's ask that they don't give you any from narcotics or hormone bottles. We don't need our trout jacked up on steroids and painkillers. They fight well enough now. My question or concern revolves around taking my seven year old daughter fishing. I have purchased her some kid waiters, non-orvious brand nylon waiters. I actually have the matching adult version and she absolutely loves waiting in them. She loves to flip rocks to look for crayfish, bugs and minnows. I normally let her carry the net so she can netfish or I put a same screen over the net and let her catch drifting bugs. This works awesome for both of us. She normally waits directly in front of me or right behind me and hangs onto my sling pack. This keeps her out of the way of the fly but close enough to netfish. We don't ever go in the water more than about 12 to 16 inches deep for safety. However, I'm still wondering how we can be safer. She has a tightly synced waiter belt and drawstring at the top but I'm wondering if a tether between us might be helpful. Obviously a PFD would probably be a good idea too. Tom, have you ever tethered yourself to your child or made them use a PFD while waiting? Do you ever use a PFD while wade fishing or from your SUP or Kayak canoe drift boat? Kyle, that's a good idea on the desiccant packs. You can also get those in a lot of food products. I save them too and put them in flyboxes and they do work quite well. Regarding tethering your daughter, I don't think it's a good idea. If you fall in, you're going to be dragging your daughter in with you. I just think that the tether, it sounds scary to me. I would not do that. I'd put a PFD on your daughter and let her hang on to you. If she falls in, she's not going to be that deep and you can run and grab or maybe carry a throw rope with you just in case. I would not tether your daughter to you. Of course, swimming lessons go without saying. Make sure that if she doesn't know how to swim, she takes swimming lessons. I don't wear a PFD while I'm fishing. I do sink my waiter belt very tightly. I do use the drawstrings at the top and based on Ralph Cutter's advice a bunch of podcasts ago. If the water were really, really fast and dangerous, I might put a second waiter belt around the top of my waiters just under my armpits. I think that's a great idea. I think a PFD is what you want to do for your daughter. I don't wear one when I'm stream fishing. I do wear one occasionally in my kayak or canoe if I'm in really rough water or current. I will wear a PFD. How about another email? This one's from AJ. After listening to the podcast on blue dotting, it got me to thinking about the type of fishing I normally do. I live in Cincinnati, Ohio about 10 minutes from the Ohio River. The Ohio River watershed in the greater Cincinnati area is made up of the Whitewater River, the Great Miami River and the Little Miami River. These three rivers have their own watersheds. This gives me a lot of options for fishing small creeks. I do what I refer to as urban warm water blue lining. I will search for and find places where I can fish for pant fish, bass, carp, crappie, and occasionally catfish in small creeks. I want to say to your listeners that you don't have to limit yourself to ponds. I work outside, in this time of year, getting mid-thigh deep in a small creek and wet-waiting while fly fishing after work is a great way to cool down. Sometimes access points to these creeks can be hard to find. Take advantage of the people who conventional fish. They can help you find access to all kinds of water. Also, find out what they are using and catch fish. There is more likely a fly that will match their conventional bait. Thank you for being such a wonderful ambassador to our sport, PS. I volunteer with the Mayfly Project in Cincinnati. I would like to say thank you to the Orvis store in Kenwood, Cincinnati for helping us with a fundraiser this spring. Well, thank you, AJ, and that's a good tip. Yes, absolutely. You can do urban blue lining as well as blue spotting or blue dotting. Here's an email from David. "In trying to increase my fly fishing credentials, I recently took a fall while waiting. Much of my vest got wet. I've done my best to dry everything to avoid rust and mold and whatever other things might happen. My question is whether there are any specific steps one should take or tips for how to dry the gear out effectively. Things like, is it good enough to open up my fly boxes for a day or two on my desk? Or do I need to put the open boxes in the sun for a while? Or do I need to take all the flies out of their foam slits to dry everything and then reload the box?" That's one example, but maybe there are other strategies, tips, or tricks of what to do when my gear gets wet. The David I hear you, my worst fear in falling in the river isn't really drowning or ruining my phone or camera, but it's getting my fly boxes wet. If your fly boxes get wet particularly if you use those foam strips, you're never going to get all that water out between the hook and the foam strips. It's going to stay in there and those things are going to rust and they're going to discolor your flies, ruin some of your other flies, and also rusty hooks lose a lot of their strength. It's a problem. The only thing I can tell you really is to take all the flies out, put them on a piece of paper towel, and let them dry. You put them in the sun if it's not windy or maybe inside in the sun where the wind isn't going to blow them away, but if you're using those foam strips, if you want to save all those flies, you really got to take them all out and dry them off. This is why I wear waterproof sling bag so I don't get my fly boxes wet even if I fall in. If you don't have a waterproof sling bag or something else, you can put your fly boxes in a Ziploc bag. It's a pain to get out your fly boxes. You have to open up the Ziploc bag every time, but there really is no other option. A wet fly box is really a disaster and a real pain in the butt. There's not much else in your vest or in your sling bag or whatever you carry that the water will hurt. You probably shouldn't keep a paper license or your wallet in there, but other than that, all the stuff that you carry, your tip of material, your fly floaters and things like that, they can get wet. The one thing, the paper leader cards can get all bunged up and then you can't tell what leader you have in the package because they get all tough to read once they get wet. Other than that, there's not much you need to worry about except your flies. Hi, Tom. I have a question. I was watching a fly fishing video on YouTube the other day and a guy mentioned something that I've never heard before. It might just be such common knowledge that it's never said to people or maybe he didn't know what he was talking about, but anyways, he was on a lake and there was just enough wind to get kind of little ripples in the water. He said this would make it better for dry fly fishing because the surface tension was broken and I was wondering if that's true and why. I'm very confused by it because I normally think of dry fly fishing when the water is nice and calm. Thanks for all you do and I hope we'll be hearing from you. Thomas, you would think that dry fly fishing would be better on lakes when it's calm and I'm sure that sometimes it is, makes it easier to cast, makes it easier to see the rises, but most of the still water, experienced still water anglers that I know prefer some riffle on the water. In fact, in Chile, they fish big dry flies for dragonfly and beetle imitations on their lakes and they really want some wind. They want the wind to, of course, the wind kicks up every day there anyways, but they really want some wind down the water. It blows food into the water, it blows food across the lake and forms wind streaks or foam lines where the fish get concentrated. So I'm afraid that fishing in the wind with a dry fly is probably better in most cases than on a calm day. Here's an email from Len. What would be your recommendation for a basic surf fishing outfit for someone who would fish probably two times a year on the East Coast, Florida, Caribbean, or Central America? So Len, I'm not sure if you're talking specifically about surf fishing or just shallow water fishing. In general, if you're fishing kind of calm flats on the at right off shore, say bone fishing or red fishing or something like that, generally a nine foot eight weight is the recommended rod. However, if you're truly going to be surf fishing, by that I mean you're fishing in waves, breaking waves, you probably want a heavier outfit because you're probably going to have more wind in, you're going to have bigger flies. So in that case, if you're truly surf fishing, I would say you want either a nine or a 10 weight outfit. So either either an eight weight or a nine weight depending on how much wind and wave you're going to have. Here's an email from David. On the March 24 episode with Jason Randall, there was a fly box question looking for good books about the history of trout in North America before Europeans arrived. I really love brook trout by Nick Kerris. It covers the natural history of brook trout include some great stories and talks about the impact development on impact of development on this native fish. At about 500 pages, it is long, but I wish it was longer. A question about line management when fishing. This week, I was fishing one of my favorite driftless small streams and was reminded that I need better line management skills. Standing at a very shallow riffle at the foot of a pool, I was able to cast a rising fish upstream. As I strip line on the ground, it eventually got pulled by the water between rocks or around the one stick in the channel. Even if I run through the slack before my next cast is sometimes get caught or has tension, which prevents me from shooting line. How do you manage your fly line in situations like this? Well, thank David for that tip on Nick Kerris's book on brook trout that is a great book and I highly recommend it. Regarding line management, the thing you can do in that situation. I do this quite often and people look at me like they have never seen it before. I am not sure why. What I do is I strip in line maybe in 12-13-14-inch pulls and then I hold it in my line hand and I make another coil and I hold that in my rod hand so I am putting coils back on my rod hand and holding those coils above the water. I do that in boats a lot so I don't get hung up on cleats or trolling motors or things like that. It usually shoots pretty well. If you take care to put each coil in front of the other one closer to the tips of your hand, it usually shoots pretty well. I don't know why more people don't do that these days. Most of us just strip line on the ground. Of course, you could use a stripping basket too but that is kind of a pain in small streams. I don't think you want to be walking around with a stripping basket but just try practicing that at home by stripping in some line and then holding the coils on your rod hand that may get you out of trouble most of the time. Here's an email from Alex from Western Pennsylvania. I recently started fly fishing a few years ago. I consider myself a novice and still trying to learn as much as I can. A few years ago, my friend gifted me an old Fenwick fiberglass rod and six-weight. It sat on the shelf for years because it looked as if it was an old inferior rod and I was told it would probably break by a few friends. It wasn't until my child started fishing with me that I strung the fly rod up for him and began casting it. I've grown to really love the fiberglass rod and I would say it's my favorite rod as of now. I recently landed a 25-inch rainbow with it. My personal best. My question is, after looking for more glass rods to add to my arsenal, I found that most glass rods seem smaller and length and graphite. Why is this? Is it to reduce weight or something similar? Like I said, I enjoy the feel of a glass rod but also know the benefits of a longer rod, especially when trying to fish across different current lanes. Do you have any insight on this? As always, I truly enjoy your podcast. It's become an invaluable resource of knowledge and experiences while trying to learn and perfect techniques. So Alex, first of all, an old fiberglass rod, unless it's been damaged, is probably not going to break. Their fiberglass rods are almost indestructible. If any of you have an old fiberglass rod, I wouldn't worry about fishing it. It's not going to break. They last forever. They might slow down just a bit if they've been heavily fished for decades but it's not going to change that much. To address your question, Alex, you got it right. Fiberglass is a heavier material than graphite. When you try to make a longer fiberglass rod, it just gets to be a really heavy rod. Since they don't respond as quickly as a graphite rod, they don't come back to rest as quickly as a graphite rod. They'll wobble a little bit more on the tip after a cast. The longer the rod, the more that wobble is going to happen. So they're just kind of ungainly in the longer lengths. That's why you're going to see most of them in a shorter length. Hello, Tom. This is Roger Bird. And today I'm coming to you from the shores of the Norfolk River in northern Arkansas. And I would like to say thank you. A number of years ago, you did a podcast with River Run Outfitters out of Tanny Como up in Missouri. And they talked about a ruby red midge. And let me tell you something, that midge has been hot for me this week. I caught beautiful rainbow trout over 14 inches. Had to turn them loose. It was a wonderful time. Once again, I want to thank you for doing that podcast. I want to thank you for putting me on that midge. And thank you for all you do. Well, Roger, thank you so much. I'm glad that glad that you enjoyed that old podcast and that you discovered that that really cool fly. And actually, I didn't know that pattern. And I had to look it up. So since you're giving a glowing review of that fly, I will read the pattern description here for others that want to tie it. The hook is a size 18 to 20 standard NIMF hook. There's a two millimeter gold tungsten bead at the head. The body is red holographic tensile. And the rib is small red wire. And the thread is red. So pretty simple fly. And I'm going to try some out myself. Sounds like a killer pattern. All right, that is the podcast or that is the fly box for this week. Let's go on to the interview with Captain Drew. So my guest today is Captain Drew Rodriguez. And Captain Drew is a guide in South Florida. But unlike most guides in South Florida, you specialize in fresh water, right? Yes, sir. And that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. So, you know, originally, originally, I wanted to do a largemouth bass podcast. Some are fishing for largemouth bass. And you told me, you told me that, well, we don't, it was really too hot here to fish for him during the day. So, we mainly fish for him at night. And we can talk about that a little bit. But you said, what I do now is is fish for peacock bass and other species, right? And I thought, Oh, that would be a cool podcast. So let's talk about summer fishing for peacock bass in South Florida. Tell me what it's like. Yeah, so they're a fish that's originally from South America. And first of all, Tom, thanks for having me today. This is awesome. Oh, my pleasure. They are a fish that's from South America. So they typically love the heat. Yesterday, Jesse, you have an idea. We were doing a guide trip and it was so hot out there. And any time the sun was out, we didn't want to be there. But that's when the bite was the best. Yeah, the peacocks were biting nonstop and topwater. And they were just going crazy when the sun was out. And when it was miserable. And in the beginning, you don't really notice that you're getting so hot. And then anytime it was cloud covered, you're like, wow, this feels good. I could be here all day. They just wouldn't, I mean, we'd catch one here one there. But if when it was comfortable for us, they would, they would not bite. And it was miserable and the hotter it got, and the longer the day went on. And I want to say that it's not always like that, though, you know, people ask, oh, he's the best time. And it's not always like that. I just feel like last year and the year before, especially, we had an extremely cold winter. And I think that anytime we have a really cold winter, the summer after that, they just really go crazy, if that makes any sense. Yeah, sure. It's just so hard to answer fishing questions, because everything's always changing. You know, that's true. You know, I'm always, I'm always kind of waffling and saying, well, sometimes or usually, but that's fishing, right? You can't give anybody. If anybody would understand that, it'd be you, because I watch your stuff all the time, right? And your followers ask questions. And then you're like, well, you answer those questions is exactly how I have to answer all my questions on the phone and in the boat. Yeah, it's insane. Yeah. Well, let's talk about, let's talk about peacock bass in general. Let's talk about, you know, where you find them. How big do they get? I've fished for now, just so you know, I've fished for peacocks a couple times down in Florida, only caught a couple little ones, but it was cool. And they're beautiful fish, and they fight hard. So tell me about, you know, what fishing for peacocks with a professional is like. We should probably talk about how they got here in the first place. Okay, sure. Yeah. They were introduced in 1984 by the state to get rid of the other invasive species that we have, and as well as to have them as a game fish, because they're just such a fun hard-fighting fish. But down here, like, let's say in Vermont, somebody has Oscars, Tiger Oscars in their fish tank and their aquarium, they have, you know, African jewel sickness, all these aggressive fish. That they basically love to have them in there, because if you throw a group of feeder minnows or feeder shrimp in there, you just watch them. Oh, just eat them, you know. So they love to have that, you know. But in Vermont, if they release them into the wild, they're just going to either die right away or die when winter comes. And here with our sub-tropical climate, they're just going to strive, you know. So we have, you look into the water down here, and there's all type of fish that just don't belong. Another same deal as the iguanas, same deal as the pythons that you see in the Everglades. So they introduced pecogbass in 1984 to eat the other invasive species. And that's why we have them here to begin with. And then they introduced them first into the city canals, because they didn't want to, like, mess up the ecosystem of the Everglades. And then they eventually have just branched out everywhere. They just do really good with our climate. Are they in the Everglades as well? I've never caught a peacock in the Everglades, but are they there? So when we used to do peacog trips, when I first got started guiding, which was eight years ago, we would just target them in the city canals, and then one canal system in the Everglades has always had them. And then now they're everywhere. Now my best peacock spot is a place where I used to go very deep into the Everglades eight years ago, and only catch large mount there. I never would catch a peacock there. And now it's become one of my best areas for peacockbass. And, like, if we do a trip in the city canals, like, how we originally used to do, if we're just blind casting and they're not betting, a good day, maybe we'd catch, like, 12. And now, like, a bad day in the Everglades, we'll catch, like, 40. My God. Good day. A good day. We'll catch, like, 200. Wow. And we've got all the way to, like, 300 in one trip. Wow. It's pretty insane. And it's crazy how, I mean, the Everglades has so much more food, such more, so much more food source in the Everglades than the city canals. The city canals, there's a lot of glass windows that they're feeding on. And I'm just referring to Miami, because the further north you go, it gets a little bit chillier, and they have shad over there. And the shad actually survives there. Shad will not survive in Miami. You know, they just, they're colder water species and they just die, so. So in the Everglades, I feel like there's so much more food with all the other fish spawning and having babies and peacock bass, they eat each other. They, they don't care. Like, I would say, when I was a young kid, the best way to catch a big peacock was always on a little peacock. You hook him, you throw him out, and in the big peacock would just eat him. And, like, every time the peacock bass spawns, when the babies hatch, they'll guard that fireball of, like, two to three hundred little baby peacocks. And the biggest threat to that is like a teenager peacock that is just going to go, go in that fireball and just eat it. So, so I think that in the Everglades, they just reproduce a lot more or get, they have a lot more food to eat. So they get bigger, faster, but always, like, historically speaking, the biggest peacocks have always been found, like, more in the city can out. Like, the biggest one we've ever put in my guide, in a guide trip in my boat, was eight and a quarter pounds that we caught him off of a bed. And, um, in the Everglades, probably like the biggest ever cut is like seven and a half, maybe seven and three quarter. What drew, what's the average size of the peacocks that you catch on a trip? I would say that's one of those questions where that varies big time, that varies day to day, that varies, that varies locations big time. And one of my main problems is like somebody will call me for a guide trip in the fall, but they'll call me in the spring for that trip or they'll call me for a trip in the winter, but they'll call me in the summer for that trip. And they'll ask me where are we going to go? I died all the way just south of Lake Ogichowi, all the way to almost Kilo Argo. So it's such a difficult question to answer, you know, but I didn't say that the trip that I did yesterday, the average fish was only a pound and a half, and we have trips where the average is three and a half pounds. Last summer, I did a trip where we caught 200 fish in six hours. It was so hot, it was brutal. And about 40 of those fish were over four pounds and the biggest one was six and a half. Well, I got to go fishing with you because I think the biggest peacock I ever caught was maybe a half a pound. Yeah, I live here on the canal in the city. So I do guide trips in a bass tracker straight from my backyard, as well as in my big basketball in Everglades. And if I were to walk to the edge and look in the water right now, I would see about 30 peacocks just sitting there waiting looking for food. Wow. And I would just say more than more than three quarters of them are bigger than your biggest. So if you were here for five minutes or if you were here for five days, it wouldn't be a problem to get you on the bigger one. And it would be my pleasure. Well, tell me about take me through a day of peacock bass fishing, maybe not as hot as yesterday, but take me through a day and what you would do and you know, what tackle you use, what flies you use and everything. A real cool day would be the day that I became an Orvis endorsed guy. I took the Orvis endorsed. I took the people that Orvis recommended on my boat. And that day had really, you know, good fly anglers, obviously. And in six hours, those two guys got 200 peacock bass. And that day was a day where we weren't catching very many big ones, maybe the biggest was only three pounds. But anytime you hooked one, there would be multiple peacocks with them. So what I started them off with was a game changer that I get from the Orvis website, the plain chocolate game changer. And I like to throw the micro, which is the smallest one. Right. You familiar with that one? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's a great one of my go-to flies. Absolutely. All around the world on that flight and the micro and the large mouth death, by the way, they love that. But we were, I had them, they were having so much fun. And I'm like, all right, guys, let's do something different. And I put a swivel on and I put one like game changer hanging out like a foot from that swivel. And then I put another game changer hanging out about two feet from that swivel. And we were just two at a time, the whole trip. And peacock that's so cool in the fact that, like, if you're stripping and you see one coming, if you slow down like a large mouth, like a large mouth, you would want a twitch twitch, you know, strip, strip, let it sit, and then he'd eat it. And then you strip that, right? Right. But a peacock is like strip until you're on. Don't stop stripping. And so you're, the game changer is nice and like white. And you could see it a good ways out. And you land, let it sink maybe a split second. And you just like strip, strip, strip, strip, strip, strip, like at that pace. And I tell a lot of people, don't go as fast as you can possibly go. Because if you see one coming, you want to speed it up. So you can see like boil behind your fly, boil behind your fly, and you start to speed up, boom. And then they eat it. Okay. Game changer does not sink very much. So almost every eat is a topwater eat. Oh, fun. And then I tell them a lot of times, like, all right, you were catching a lot on the bank, but some of those bigger fish are going to come from the beef to strip all the way to the boat. So we like to strip all the way to the boat. And those fish that eat, you'll never be able to even pull it away from them, because there's no fish. And then all of a sudden, the fish had already eaten your fly and is three feet down again. So that fight is the most impressive, you know? Yeah, yeah. It happened so fast. And forget strip setting at that point. At that point, you're just, you're the last thing you did with strip. And the next thing you did was you were on, you know, there's no way to pull it away from that. They're fun, man. They're fish that I've caught probably my first one when I was like five or six years old. We didn't know what the heck they were. Had to go to the local bait shop and be like, I caught this fish that looked like this. And that's when we started to learn about that. And then I would say by the time I was 13, I was like, this fish is too easy. I want to catch largemouth bass, because they're the ones that always like, you would see a big one, but you wouldn't catch them, or you would hook a big one, but he would get away from you. And you just realized, man, so much more too largemouth bass. Like, there's so much more techniques. And you need this weight with this line, with this worm, with, you know, and then when I started guiding, that's when I just fell in love with peacock bath all over again. Because it was like every time one of my clients caught one for the first time, it was as if I caught one for the first time, you know. Yeah, well, that's the that's a sign of a good guide, for sure. Yeah, that was so fun. So it sounds like it sounds like peacocks would be a great fish for the novice, who hasn't done a lot of fly fishing. I would imagine as well as all the invasive species, a lot of times my biggest trouble is when I take somebody fishing for fly fishing for the first time, it's I got to teach them how to bring in a fish before I could fully teach them how to catch how to even cast. Because the moment I fly, it's the water something's eating it. So, you know, you got tiger ospers, Mayan cichlids, jaguar wapotes, which are this beautiful fish. Like, they're called jaguar wapote, and they're from Guatemala. And wapole in Spanish means handsome. Right. So it's like handsome jaguar. They have like this beautiful pattern on them, these funny looking fang teeth. And so you have all those fish as well as peacocks, as well as large mouth as well as blue gill, sunfish, warm out, you know, it's just there's croppy in there. I mean, it's just so many fish. So a lot of times before I get them to actually reach the bank, if they're like fumbling around with their fly line, but then they put their fly line together, they're on. Now we got to learn how to catch this. It's okay. We learned how to catch it. Okay, now let's work on getting back to the bank, you know. But also, like a lot of my guys, since I'm in this area, there are guys that like, oh, Drew, I go tarpon fishing all the time. I'm from Colorado. I go tarpon fishing all the time in the Keys, but I saw you on the Orvis website. I don't want to come do this with you. So that person is good, a good fisherman, but of course, always wanting to get better. So because I do that type of fishing as well, and I know what it takes to catch a tarpon or a bonefish or a permit on the fly, I know it's just like such a hard tactic. Then while I'm guiding him for peacocks, I'm also making him a better angler telling him, hey, your left hand is way too idle, you know, start double hauling. I'll put him far away from the bank and make it more challenging. That way, I love doing that too, because when they get off my boat, they're like peacocks was fun. But I think the best part was the fact that you showed me so much more, because like my tarpon buddies, they don't do a lot of false, a lot of cast period. It's just like, hey, tarpon two o'clock, 50 feet, get them. And so you've been there, not practicing, and all of a sudden, you got to put it all together, and you can't screw it up, or else it's over. So in my boat, we're doing a lot of cat, a lot of cats, a lot of cats. So I just get them better and better. And I love when they get off my boat. And they're like, dude, this was so fun catching those peacocks. But I feel like I came off this boat a better angler, you know, hopefully those suck. Well, appreciate that. That's the value of a great guide trip, right? Is learning, is learning something new as well as having fun and yanking on fish? Yes. So agreed. So besides the game changer, what other flies do you use? Can you catch them on poppers on surface flies? All day long. You can put there's like three flies, which would be a browser, a game changer, or a popper. Yep. And if you decided that you're going to throw those, that, you know, one of those three flies all day, it wouldn't be a problem. Okay. Obviously, you're going to miss more on the popper than you would on a Clouser. The Clouser, I love to. The game changer has that hook that is not really meant for peacock bass. I would say the best hook for a peacock would be a stinger hook. Right. Very sharp, thin, bendy hook. So, you know, when I have a Clouser has the perfect setup. And that if they just a lot of times a peacock bass first strike is not a eat. It's a kill shot. And then even if you're fishing live bait for them, like the live bait guys cast out their live bait, they let out slack and they leave that slack on the water and they let that peacock eat it and then run. Right. So, the first, if you're watching your line, you'll see like a strike and then nothing happens and then it takes off. So, okay. When you're when you're peacock fishing with the fly, if you're a lot of times with the game changer, it'll be like a hit and then gone. And if it's not they're not really in a mood to eat, then you don't get that fish and he doesn't really come back. But when you when you have that stinger hook, if they hit it, there's just like glued to them automatically, you know, okay, that makes it makes a huge difference or have that stinger. And if I have a beginner on my boat, doesn't know how to strip that very well, or somebody that only trout sets, the clouds are the best fly for me to give, you know, to give to them. Okay. And then, and then a lot of times I'll be having like homemade game changers where I, you know, change the hook, but that is a hard fly to tie and fix that. I tell people all the time, there's a reason why this is the most successful ever mass produced fly every time, because nobody wants to tie this thing. And they're expensive too. You don't you don't want to lose a game changer. Yeah, but the good thing is they last all they last multiple trips. They do. Yeah, they're, they're so durable. If you don't lose it, and, and then the peacocks are not line shy at all. So we're using 20 pound straight fluorocarbon leader. Oh, good. I was going to ask you, I was going to ask you what leader used just 20 pound straight. Yeah, and a lot of times that that hook is, you know, if it's in the trees or something, you just either try and jiggle it out or if it caught too good, you just point right at it and you strip it and it just comes out of the tree. Okay. The only time that doesn't happen is with a good hook. When I put the good hook on there, then if you've got that tree, a lot of times you got to go get it. If it doesn't break off, you know. Oh, that's why is that why you like the the lighter wear bendy hooks because you can pull them out of snags easier. Oh, no, it doesn't, it doesn't pull out of snags. Oh, okay. It grabs everything it touches. Okay. That game changer straight out of the package. I am not scared of that hook. Like I am going, I'm trying to touch the bank every time. I'm trying to like go in the lily pads and that's the good part about that, that hook. That hook, you could just like, it's really not going to catch anything unless you drive it in, but that stinger hook, it will catch everything. But most of the times, like if you're in a lily pad, and if you just point at it and you just pull, it's going to come out of the lily pad, you know, it's not, you're not going to have to go get it. If you're in some hardwood, you have to go get it because that stinger hook, whatever it touches, it's hooking. So it sounds like you need to, it sounds like you need to fish close to structure for the peacocks, close to the bank and close to logs and things like that ambush points. Yeah, you, as well as like how I was saying, those fish that come from the deep that you don't see. Okay. I mean, it's, if you're catching two and three hundred fish, they're everywhere. But sometimes the bigger ones are under the pads and, and every, every, every case is different, you know, but yeah. But yeah, in Brazil, when we go fishing over there or in Colombia, they're, they're all the biggest fish is always right next to a big old log. And he's going to eat you and he's going to run right into that tree or right into that log. That's just their ammo. And then topwater, popper, it's just so unique. Like since we have large mouth antique off around, we will fish that popper normal. Like you land, you let it sit because it might get eaten right there. I always tell my clients like, treat your, treat your cast as a pop. So as soon as that thing lands, don't move it. Just if you land it in a straight line, just leave it there, pop it, let it sit, pop, pop, let it sit. And then if it's a large mouth, it's just going to come eat it, go to the bottom, strips it, you got them. But if it's a peacock, he might miss it on that first strike. And if you see the color didn't look like a large mouth, you know, you're going to notice that it has some orange on it or way more vibrant green or blue. They have so many beautiful colors on them that if he missed it, you speed that thing up and you just pop, pop, pop, and pull. Okay. And now later, let's just come and destroy it. What, um, what rod do you like for for fishing peacocks there? I use a lot. Um, the helios eight D eight D. Okay. Yeah, I like to use the eight way and I use the D and I use the seven way and I use the D. Um, right now I have, uh, I bought the F, I'm sorry, the new four, the helios four. And I bought that one in the eight S because I already had a B and I wanted to see the difference. And I could definitely tell you that I like the D better. That was the one that Peter recommended when I became an Orbis inverse guide. And he was right. This is my fair. Now do you use that? Do you use the nine footers or do you use those shorter sevens and eight in the new. I use the nines. I have a blackout and I use that sometimes when we're, um, bed fishing because, um, maybe we're in the city canals and we don't have a back cast. So we need to roll cast everything. Um, and so we just want a shorter rod because we have so many trees behind us or so much structure around us. Okay. Um, I do use that rod. Um, I don't love it as much as my nine footers. I'm with you. I'm with you. I like the nine footers better, but there's a lot of people who like those shorter ones. Yeah. I, well, I like it in the, in the sense that it'll help you become a better anger because like timing is out of the window. In my opinion, timing is out of the window with that thing. It's all feel and it's you got to wait longer. So it'll help you like there's a lot of really good fly angers that do not pause. They don't stop. They just have this flow and they don't need to stop. But the moment that I put that rod in their hand, they're like, why is my castle? Well, you got to stop. You got to, you got to work more on your mechanics with this rod. And it's cool. It's cool in that sense because it kind of reminds you like, Hey, you've been doing good this whole time, but you need to stop. This rod was really a transfer of energy. Yeah. Yeah. And then a really cool thing I would like to point out is that I have never fly fished in my life until I became a guide. So I didn't know anything about fly fishing until eight years ago. Like I had never done it ever. And so when I started getting clients, they, they were the ones who showed me and taught me how to fly fished. And as a guide, you never get to fish. So, you know, one trip I did with my very best client that he comes 30, 40 times a year. This gentleman bought me my first three setups. They were all Orvis Clearwater, eight weights. And he took me out for three days straight. I took him, but he taught me how to fly fish in those three days. And we were only going for large mouth on topwater in this trip. It was probably in winter time or spring. Probably, it was probably March. So it was probably spring. And at the end of the three days, I tried to give him a discount because I'm like, Bill, you, you guided me. Like I didn't even guide you. You just gave me these three rods with the line with the whole setup. And because what he wanted me to do was start doing more flight trips. And he used to have an Orvis indoor fly shop. And he used to be an Orvis indoor outfitter in a, in a lodge. So he's had, he's had a lot of experience with Orvis. And I would not be an Orvis indoor sky that wasn't for him. So he, yeah, he's the one that told me I remember one day in Montana, he told me, Drew, look at this. And he logs onto the website. It's like, this is what I want you to do one day. I said, okay, when I'm ready, I'll do that. And, but even though I did that trip, like that, that trip was cool. Because I always kind of would tell him like, Hey, you would catch bigger fish if you paused them or like these fish are there. And they want to eat it. But I feel like you're taking it away from them too soon. So for the largemouth bass, he would cast and it would land. And he would strip and he was stripping was strip. And then he'd move his flight to a new spot. So that day, I was like being a lot more patient and I caught a lot more bigger largemouth than him for, for like two of those days until the third day, he was like, okay, I get it. So yeah, so I was obviously not a good flycaster at that point. And I, like I said, I never get to fish because I'm always working. So I learned how to fly fish in my bed. Like I was thinking about fly fishing, thinking about the mechanics. And it was so weird. It was so like nostalgic experience for me. Like the years in my head just clicked, you know, and I said, Oh my God, I think I understand it's not like, like everything just made sense. Like if I had done it before, and then I go out to my backyard the next day, we were living on a farm at that point. So I had a huge space. And I just did, you know, I just cast it on my fly line and in three false cast. And I was like, Oh, now I get it. You know, obviously, I had been on the water, you know, I was with one of my tarpon guide friends, and he was telling me, Drew, you're not using your left hand. And I was thinking about that whole thing in my bed. And I was like, Oh, it was like, it was so weird. It was so weird. But that's that's why I fly fishing in the back. And now I don't want to do anything but like I don't do anything about flying. And when I did the Orvis and Doris guide trip, when I did the trip to become an Orvis and Doris guide, the gentleman told me it was Ben. And Ben says, they say, they both say to me, wow, Drew, you throw a nice line. And little do they know, like, two, three years before that, I could not do that. You worked hard at it. Yeah, and not even with the right of my hand. But but and I've taught so many people. And and I've watched a lot of fly casting videos and and it's just such a beautiful art form. You know, I just love it. It is. It is. Now I'm the first ever Orvis and Doris guide in South Florida for fresh water. There was never another one before me. Yeah. And I'm the and I'm the only one. So so tell me about Drew, tell me about your seasons. You know, take me through 12 months of the year and and what what you're going to target in South Florida. What's the best time for largemouth? What's the best time for peacocks? The best time for largemouth is definitely winter and spring. The fish here, they deal with the heat so much that I feel like whenever it gets cold, the fish get frisky, you know, but also has to do with water levels, right? So in the summer time is when we get all of our rain and usually by winter, the water has dropped significantly. But lately, we've been having issues with our water where in winter, the water is still so high, right? So our our months for top water used to be February and March. And I feel like now it's more March and April because the water hasn't started dropping until April. And I would say March and April are the very two best months for largemouth fans. Okay. Obviously summer peacocks fall. It's still like September might as well be summer. October is not good for largemouth yet. And I would say you're not going to start doing really well on largemouth until like January, you know. Okay. You can. You're still a big part of our problem is we're so used to catching boatloads of fish. So if we catch like 30 or 40 fish in a guide trip, I'm the only person mad in the boat. I wouldn't be mad at that. The clients are always like, I'm like, man, guys, this was so bad. And they're like, this was awesome. I had to teach myself this, you know, I was born here. This is all I know. The only reason I know about other parts of the country is when I started guiding and started traveling and people started taking me all over the place to fish, then I started to realize and see how just how different South Florida is to the rest of the country or the world. So it has been a learning curve. And I used to be the only one that in the boat now. And especially fly fishermen. I don't know. Like they're it's not all about catching for a fly fisherman a lot of times. It's about the experience. It's about being outdoors, not being being behind the desk. So flight trips for me are like very like peaceful, you know, very, there's not a lot of pressure. There's not a lot of, you know, it's it's very different. Yeah, well, people aren't looking for records or they're not tournament anglers. They're just out there. They have fun. Right. Yeah. And then I mean, sometimes it gets scary because you're looking down at a six, seven pound peacock on a bed and because the timing is right. And but other than that, like they don't they don't mind too. They're just in it for the experience. They're it's not about, you know, it's not a lot of pressure on those trips. Yeah. I'll be so sad that we only caught 30 or 40 fish. And it was the best day of their life. It has taken me a long time to get to this point. Now, can you catch can you catch peacocks? All year long. Even in the winter, even on the coldest day, I was with one of my clients, which happens to be that same gentleman. Two winters ago, it was the day after Christmas, which was a very cold day where we happened to lose a lot of peacock fast to the cold weather. So if it gets below 60 is the reason why peacocks aren't everywhere in the country, if the water gets drops below 60, they start to die off. Okay. So if the water is low in the Everglades, then they don't have so many escape routes, right? So if they're just in a two foot of water or eight feet of water, those fish are not going to live. But the fish that are in 15, 17, 20 feet of water, they are going to live. That's too cold. So that's why they don't all die. And since I live very south in Miami, the fish in my canal, that's what I would say. That's why we get the bigger fish here is they're able to live a long life. These fish in my canal, they hardly ever die. It has to be some crazy cold weather. But I was with this client, and even he was like, we were free. We were all bundled up. He's from New Hampshire, and we were so cold, and we went to our best cold water area. And he's like, I don't think we're going to catch any fish in nature. And I'm like, these fish are still going to bite these fish. They're going to, it's going to be awesome, don't worry. And we went out there, and I think we only fish for like three or four hours since he had something to do, like a meeting or something, and we caught like 80 fish doing him. Wow. Wow. So it's year round for them. But that's what makes largemouth so special, largemouth. Everything needs to be right. And largemouth are so smart, right? If you're finesse fishing, all these tournament angers and stuff, they talk about finesse fishing, right? So that means that if that fish feels you at all, he's going to let it go. So you're fishing maybe six pound braid with a six pound leader, super long leader, so he doesn't see it. And if he feels any of that surge of that line, he's going to let it go. So when you're fly fishing, you've got this big, heavy line. Those fish eat the fly so many times, and you don't even know it. And they just say, no, thank you. It's almost like you need to catch them when you're fly fishing, either on top water or when they're aggressive. Because that's the only time they're going to hit your fly like, oh, and you're going to feel that he's there. If not, he's just going to come up to it, say, oh, look at his snack, and then he's going to put in his mouth. And you're not going to even know he has in his mouth. You're going to do a strip or two and never feel that fish. And he's going to let it go and go on his way. So large, large mouth, in my opinion. I mean, that's what happens down here for sure. I've seen it happen so many times. I was like, all right, you just missed because they're going to eat it on the bank. They're going to come out with it. So they're going to come the same direction that you're stripping. And if you don't realize that it was in his mouth, you just keep on stripping. And like two or three of those strips, you were just picking up the slack that he was giving you, you know? So he's just, he knows he feels that and he just lets it go. And I was like, look, dude, your fly was here. And now it's all the way over here. I was in a fish. No, they're a unique fish. And I mean, they're my favorite fish. Like being a bass fisherman from Miami, I am an anomaly because all of my friends, you know, you do bass fishing when you're little and then you get a saltwater bow and you never look back. But for me, once I could afford a boat, instead of buying a saltwater bow, I just bought a basketball because that's my favorite, favorite fishing, you know? And even being from here, I would have never even thought to be a guy. But I learned that it's the most popular fish in the entire country. I didn't know that bass, you know, everybody has bass. And I put it in my mind like, oh, no wonder, because if you're from Miami, you would think it would be called tarpon pro shops, you know? It's called bass pro shops for a reason. It's like, and so I never put two and two together like that. Because I thought I was the weirdo. And then, and then I'm like, Oh, no, everybody's like, just not the people from Miami. Even even my grandfather is this old Cuban guy and he wanted to go catch food. So the very first fishing I ever learned was saltwater fishing. And I didn't, I didn't ever, you know, I started to freshwater fish because I wanted to fish all the time. And the only thing near my home was the fresh water. Yeah. So, so Drew, let's say, let's say someone's on vacation, they're in Miami and they're, you know, they're smart, they're going to hire you. But let's say they're, they're just fishing on their own. And they want to catch some peacocks. What, what do you, what do you suggest they look for? I mean, I don't want to, I don't want you to give away any spots. But, you know, what kind of, what kind of canal should they look for? What kind of water and how should they approach it if they're doing it on their own? I would say that's the beautiful part of down here. Like, you don't not need a guide. You get a guide, obviously, if you could afford one. And if you want to venture out and do, you know, we, we kind of, as a guide, always know where to go at what time of year. But down here, you look, you find the canal system, you look in the water, you're going to see fish. There's just no way around it. It's, it's like an aquarium. We live in an aquarium. And the more south you get, the clearer the water tends to be. And you get to see all those fish. So even if you're up like in Broward or for Lauderdale, and you can't see in the water, those same fish are there, plus more. Because for Lauderdale has those snake heads, they have clown knife fish. It's just, it's an invasive fish's, invasive species, paradise. And so if you're going to be a large amount, you better be a, you know, a bad guy, basically. You know, you better be a crazy fish, you know, because, and so a lot of times, those bass are just going to even have that tendency of that peacock or something, because they know, man, if I don't move fast, I'm not going to eat this fish, something else going to get it. But if you go to the Everglades, that's where, I mean, literally there's, if you see water in South Florida, there's fish in there, you know, if you see water in South Florida, you could bang fish it. I have a lot of my clients ask me, like, hey, there's a canal system in front of my hotel. Do you think I can go fish it tomorrow? Like, I don't know if you're allowed to fish there, and I just tell them, look, here in Florida, you're allowed to fish there. If it's not private water, it's your water, like you are allowed to fish wherever. And, and man, it just doesn't matter if you're in a backyard home, or if you're 20 feet into the middle of nowhere, there's fish in the canal. There's fish in the, in the water. I mean, we have fish everywhere. So literally any place, and if there's peacocks there, they're probably going to eat, right? Yeah. So Tom, when you, when you said you caught those, those smarter peacocks, where did you fish just out of curiosity? Oh, I don't, I don't remember. Okay. It was, it was north of Miami somewhere. I was with, I was with, I was with DJ Dan, you'd probably know DJ Dan. And he's a videographer, and he just took us around to some neighborhood pond. Some of them were we weren't supposed to be in, but we snuck in a housing development. Yeah. Those are the good ones. So there's no no fishing sign you could fish there. And if there is a no fishing sign, you want to fish. Well, we, we shouldn't be telling people that, right? Yeah. Well, if you're a kid, you can get away with it. We're adults, right? We know better. I don't know. You put a lot of times, a lot of times those no fishing signs are because it's a complex, right? Right. Yeah. HOA or something. Right. Yeah. And it's not that you, a lot of them, you could fish and never get kicked out because they're not going to kick you out. They don't want to enforce that, but they have to have a sign there for liability. Right. That's what I, that's what I figured. But obviously you can't go to a golf course. That's not meant, you know, not meant for fishing. But a lot of those home, they want the kids to be fishing because they're staying out of trouble, you know. Well, you put a fly rod in our hands and we're all 12 years old, right? Yes. Yes. Yes. That's why we love it. That is why we love it. That is why we love it. But yeah, man, it's very unique. It's a cool area to fish. Sometimes it's just large mouth, peacock, large mouth, peacock, peacock, large mouth, you know. So I would say that the peacocks have made kind of like a big difference as to catching less large mouth down here. Yeah. Because like I said, that area, man, that area we used to go there. I mean, if you did a peacock trip, you would never do it there. And then now all of a sudden it's turned into my best peacock area with the biggest fish and like sometimes three pound averages, 150 fish, 200. I mean, you can't even say 150 peacocks, maybe 250 fish, but 150 peacock. And the average that day is three and a half pounds, you know, it's just insane. And it's just the large mouth. I feel like the large mouth. I know exactly what I think I know exactly what they do is they want to stay away from the bank. So they're in that deeper water. So they're kind of under your boat while you're casting to the bank. And I feel like that is a big, it's made a big difference. They want to stay away from all those little fish and all them basic fish, they just come up and eat one occasionally and go back down. And like they bluegill, right? Bluegill are big baits. And if they eat a bluegill there, they should be good for a while. And the Oscars and the Cyclids, when they're small, they're the same size, you know. Last year, we were throwing, I had my client throw into one side with the top water, and I was in the back throwing a game changer. And as I'm bringing in the Oscar with the game changer, a large mouth, we could hear, we couldn't see because it was such overcast. This was probably February or March. And we could hear the vacuum of a large mouth like, and him and I just look at each other with big eyes, like something's trying to eat it. So I just start letting out all my slack for my fly line, just let out the slack. And you can see like the line speed change. And I'm like, oh, he ate it. So I just let kind of let him have it. But I have a super small hook from the micro game changers. I'm not going to hook this fish, but I'm going to try, right? So I just let them, you know, let this lack out and notice the speed change. And I'm like, oh, he ate it. And I kind of just let him take the rest of the line. And then I strip hook as hard as I can, strips that as hard as I can. Well, and I'm like, he's out there. And I just start stripping his strip and then the six-pound basses shoots up and Oscar goes flying one way, he goes flying and he comes off and it was like, that was cool. But yeah, I think that they're eating those big meals, you know, they're definitely, they're always going to have my heart because they are smart. And also, we have like a lot of running water, right? It's all canal systems. It's not like, it's not like still water anymore. So like, I feel like our bass fight a lot harder here than they would catching them in a lake because they're strong fish, they're active fish, they're moving. And I feel like, you know, they say a bass grows, a Florida bass grows a pound a year. But I feel like our eight pounders instead of being eight years old, maybe they're 11 years old, you know, if they're six pounds instead of being six years old, I feel like he's eight or nine or 10 years old, you know. So he's just a little bit smarter, he's been around the block. And he's strong, you know, like they are strong. Yeah, I've hooked fish before and handed it handed the rod to a client and said, here, you wanted the largemouth here. And then the dragon is just screaming was on a spinning rod. And this poor kid, he had a pretty sad story. And his uncle had booked this trip for him. And he's like, Drew, I just want to get him one big fish. So I let them fish for eight hours and they never caught a big one. And I was like, all right, I'm gonna catch you a big largemouth right now on this little worm. And he's like, he's like, all right, I'm gonna give you this extra time. But I know you want a big fish. And here we go. So it was like three casts later, I set the hook and the drag just starts going. And we're fishing in an area that has a lot of snook and tarpon, because we have a lot of snook and tarpon in our freshwater. And hit in the uncle is like, Drew, that is not a bass dude, because here's the drag just screaming. And I'm like, that is a bath. I'm fishing a trick worm, like a little worm. There's it because the bass weren't biting. So I was throwing like a very finesse little worm. And it was just meant to be the poor kid had lost his father, you know. So the uncle wanted to do the strip for him. This largemouth is just screaming and screaming. The drag is just going and going and fighting and fighting. And the uncles like, there's no way this is a largemouth. This is a snook. I'm like, look, there's nothing going to eat that worm, it's not a largemouth. And sure enough, just a seven and a half pound largemouth finally coming up to us and jumping and going back down. And the kid was just so happy. But yeah, I feel like our fish are stronger because they have to deal with running water. You know, they really have to move. It's almost like a river fish, you know, you catch these trout and you're just like, how did that fish fight so hard? But out waters, running waters to live in there, you have to be a special special specimen. Yeah. Well, Drew, that has been great in great introduction to Florida peacocks. If someone if someone wants to get ahold of you for for a trip, they can go on the Orvis website. I assume that's the best place and under Florida and find you. Yeah, I'm in the South Florida guide section. I mean, so I have my, my website, which has my email on it and stuff. And that would be Drew's guyservice.com. But if you go to the Orvis website and you're looking for Orvis and Doris guide, I'm in the South Florida section along with a bunch of chartmen and snowing and saltwater guys. Yeah, it's been really cool. It's been a breath of fresh air getting Orvis clients. And then I get a lot of Orvis employees. And you just see how great the company is. You know, a lot of Orvis employees come visually. And it's, it's been such an experience. Well, you're going to get another Orvis employee next time I'm in South Florida. And I'm looking forward to it. That would be so fun. I hope you're here for a couple of days and we can do a couple of different things that that's really, I think that's why a lot of people come back is because, you know, sometimes I had had a guy, I mean, even now, I'm sure there's been a client that I've had all eight years and he hasn't been everywhere with me. There's just so many things to do. Yeah. And one thing we should probably talk about before we close it is we have lakes in Central Florida that we go to all the time, like one of my clients, one of my flight clients drags me over there. And we are the only guys flyfish in there. And the reason he likes to go there is because if we fish there, we're only going to catch large mouth bad. And so that's something, you know, we love that fish and we miss that fish. But I bet you in five years, this whole conversation's going to go out the drain and there's going to be a great spot. We could just go and catch large mouth almost year around, you know, yeah, it's just everything's always changing. Especially, you know, we have that the organization captains for clean water are always trying to make the Everglades water cleaner and better. And when they do all those changes, it makes a big difference down here. A lot of times it's not good. It's not good for bass fishing because that is why we got the high water and winter that normally it will be bone dry is because they're trying not to send all that water out at once. Right. You know, when they send out all that water at once, that's when you hear in the news about the red tide and all these manatees and snow basket, they're sending all that dirty water out all at once. So all these projects, they affect our fishing. Yeah, I would never be dumb enough to be like, Oh man, you know, I want the safety of the fish, you know, is better than us catching largemouth like we have been all of our lives. So it's it's a better it's better, you know, it's for the greater good of the situation. Yep, captains for clean water is one of the best organizations we work with for sure. They are there. They've done some pretty amazing stuff. Yeah, I don't know if you were going to see the well, you did see the documentary that they did Orvis and yep and captain for clean water and the section when when they were in the middle of the Everglades, they did that part of my boat. Oh yeah, and they were catching peacocks in the 10th. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah, we did it. I mean, I told them there's an area where the peacock are biting better, but this is going to be better for the video because it's going to explain the flows of the water. Yeah. And if we talk about all the changes and all the flows of the water, we will be on here for days. But but it's so awesome that you're doing this time, you know, I really appreciate it, man. Oh, it's been my pleasure. It's been my pleasure. And it's been fun, Drew. And I'm gonna I'm gonna come down and fish with you as soon as I can. Yeah, I look forward to it. All right. Thank you. Thank you so much. We've been talking to captain Drew Rodriguez from Miami. And if you're if you want to catch a lot of peacocks, he's the guy to talk to. Thanks for listening to the Orvis Fly Fishing Podcast with Tom Rosenbauer. You can be a part of the show. Have a question or comment. Send it to us at podcast@orvis.com in the body of an email or as a voice attachment. You can find more free fishing tips at howtoflyfish.orvis.com. 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