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That's indeed.com/bluewire, terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? You need Indeed. Over 25 years ago, on September 29, 1998, we watched a brainy girl with curly hair drop everything to follow a guy she only kind of knew all the way to college, and so began Felicity. Join me, Amanda Foreman, who you may know better is Megan, the roommate, and Greg Grunberg, who you may also know as Sean Blunberg, as the three of us revisit our favorite moments from the show and talk to the people who help shape it. Listen to Dear Felicity on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. This next part, Brian, part two of our defensive line discussion, we want to talk about kind of what we know and the biggest questions. And so, you know, there's a lot of returning talent, obviously on this team, what we know and what we don't know, right Vince? Absolutely. And that's what we know, biggest questions, what we don't know, it is exactly right. And so, jumping into what we know first, there's a lot of returning talent here from last year's team, and as we kind of discussed in part one, one of the reasons Riley Mills is back is he didn't probably have the season overall that he wanted, and the feedback that he got from NFL teams said, hey, you know, go back to school, I would imagine, and/or he didn't get the grade that he wanted, let's put it that way. And so, he came back to school, and of course, you know, Howard Cross has come back to school as well, and I remember the days that they announced that they were going to be coming back and, you know, the fan and me got a little giddy inside because now Notre Dame has arguably two of the best defensive tackles in college football, or I should say the best combo of defensive tackles in the nation coming back for another year of college football, and we would be having a much different conversation if these two guys had decided to go to the NFL. And so, what we know is that if, you know, Riley Mills and Howard Cross just repeat the season that they had last year, they're going to be really good. If they come back and do the things that they are wanting to do to boost their stock to the NFL, they're going to be super elite good. I think that's especially true for Riley. Yes. Like with Howard, I don't know Howard Cross personally, but what I have heard about him, it would not shock me if Howard came back, first of all, when you're barely six feet tall and you're 280 pounds and you're a defensive tackle and at this level and you're an all American, you are a gritty, hardworking kid that wants to get after it, right? So there's no complacency there. What I'm saying is this, but if you are that kind of kid, I can also understand if it's Howard Cross is like, look, I just am not done playing college football and I have things I want to coach another name, even if it's not like, hey, I got to improve on this part of my game, right? Like Riley definitely, like I was told Howard was always leaning towards coming back because he, you know, his breakout was kind of unexpected. You know, from some things that Ryan and I heard during the season, there's a time where Riley was pretty much gone. He was going to leave and didn't quite get the feedback that I think he, you know, that he was going to get and so he came back. So he, even more so than Howard has, I need to prove myself here, but even with Howard, I do think there's another level that Howard can get to. I mean, look, you had an all American year, seven tackles for loss, two sacks. Half of that production came against Duke, you know what I mean? He didn't have a tack. He didn't have a sack. I don't think until that game, the point is I think Riley has even more to prove, but I do think there's another level that Howard Cross can get to. And for both of them, it's back to what we talked about earlier. It's about finish, but at the end of the day, Vince, at the end of the day, this defense of line is not going to be, is not going to make the jump because Riley and Howard get better. Right. They are already both very good. Correct. Now, is there a level for them to get better? Yes. But I don't think that's like, if I'm putting my priority list of things the D line needs to do, this is not my priority number one. Sure. Like if they just repeat, now here's the key though, not everybody just keeps progressing. Some guys regress. Sure. Yeah, they need to make sure that Howard Cross and Riley Mills don't regress. So now that's going to be a key. But as long as they just, if they just do that, then they're going to be fine. If they get better, that's even better. But to me, it hinges on a lot more on other things that we'll get into. But it's nice. It's a, the foundation of knowing those two were here and those two were hungry and the things that I had in my, in my Intel piece about the attitude they've had, they both come back with a little bit of a chip on their shoulder and I'm like, how does Howard Cross still have a chip on his shoulder? He's the second team all American last year, but I love it. But it's like, that's why a six foot, one, 285 pound defensive tackle does what he does. Yeah, exactly. Because he kind of always plays with a chip on his shoulder, you know what I mean? And so that's what you look at is like you, you have that foundation and you're starting the season off with arguably the best one to punch a tackle in the country. I think right now, the only team that contends with them from in regard to proven players, now there's some teams that are going to have a sending really good the tackle combos. But as far as what we know is the Michigan duo of Kenneth Grant and Mason Graham, that's the only one to me that can contend with Riley Mills, you've got two guys, they are the only two defensive tackles in all of cod football, that coming back that ranked in the top 20 last year in pass rush pass rushing success and run stops, run success, the only two. The only team with two of those guys, Michigan had two guys in in there too, but it was a different guy. It was three because remember Michigan had a great three man rotation last year. So they had two guys in the top 25 and one two in the top 25 and other Mason Graham, I think was top 25 in both, but Kenneth Grant was top 25 and one and Chris Jenkins was top 25 in another for Notre Dame. It was those two and if you and if you look at Gabor Rubio's grade, he was in there as well as the third, he's out now, right, which we'll get into, but those two guys were both in there. So you are starting the year off with an outstanding combination of events. You and I talk about this all time to be a great defense. You have to be great right up the middle on all three levels, and you know, first line of attack, you feel pretty good about being very good when your starters are on the field. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, up the middle. Baseball football, you want to be good up the middle. And I like where Notre Dame is, especially on the defensive line up the middle. Prize picks is America's number one daily fantasy sports app with over five million active members. Prize picks is the easiest and most exciting way to play daily fantasy sports. Unlike other apps, on prize picks, it's just you against the numbers. All you do is pick more or less on two to six players' stat projections and watch the winnings roll in, baby. Get in on the daily action with your friends and become part of the prize picks community today. 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That's code Irish on prize picks for a deposit match of up to $100. Pick more, pick less, it's that easy. It's exactly what you need to catch all the action. Make your Sundays more magical and also YouTube TV is great. I got it this year. It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com/bsdevice and content restrictions apply local and national games on YouTube TV and if I'll send a ticket for out of market games excludes digital only games. Other things that we know, we know that this defensive line is going to be deep. There's a chance they could play 10, maybe 11 guys, depending on how things shake out in the fall and depending on how some guys develop and, you know, all of those things. I don't know when the last time we said that Notre Dame could go 10 or 11 deep on the defensive line and be legit. I would argue Vince, prior to Rubio's, I'm sorry, I didn't even interrupt you. I'm trying to get better about that. No, you're good. I would argue that they could go 3D prior to Rubio's injury. Because your third your third team would be junior child and market viper, Bryce Young defensive end Donovan Hynish knows and then you, you know, who's your, you know, Armo Mucum, maybe somebody like that or excuse me, Donovan Hynish is your number three, three technique and then either Armo Mucum or Sean Savillon or something like that at nose. Like I think you were a legitimate three deep up guys can help you right now. Sure. Right. And you know, those, would you trust all 12 of those guys to play Texas A&M game, for example. Yes. To play now. The question is, are the, and we'll get into this next, that you do have to ask yourself, okay, are you, are you trusting them to play or to make plays? That's a different conversation. Yeah. That's fair. Very different conversation. Cause a lot of those guys, I don't trust to make plays. I just say, Hey, look, you can spell this guy. You can spell this guy. You can play short yardage. You can play goal line. You have 12 guys can help you in some capacity right now. Okay. There's no doubt. It's an athletic group. Oh, yeah. It's a very athletic group of players. I mean, your third team is a five star freshman defensive end, a former top one 50 recruited Viper, you know, for those people that care about such things, you know, diamond highness is a very athletic player, Jason Rubio is a very athletic player, you know, Josh Burnham, RJ open are both good athletes, Buba Cartre, or he's a very athletic player. You've got a very athletic group of players. That's the other thing. It's, it's a what? That's not a real big D line. It's not a very big defensive line, they don't try to play like a big defensive line. I was gonna say, that's not exactly who they are is looking for. Like that's not really right. Somebody that they want to disrupt and you need athletic guys to be disruptors and they have that, right? We'll talk about the next level for that group here when we get into the next section of the show, but you do know you have bodies, correct, good bodies, talented, long athletic talented bodies. And that's kind of the third part, right Vince is it's talented. There's talent. It's some of it's unproven, right? But there is talent there and if you want to go off of recruiting rankings, if you want to go off of what we just see with our naked eye, I had mentioned when I was at practice the other day with you and I had to walk past the defensive line and they were doing their tackling circuit and they were, you know, sprinting over some dummies with high knees and, you know, kind of going through a little bit of a, a little bit of a gauntlet type of deal. And it's just like, they didn't look like defensive lineman, you know what I mean? They just looked like massive athletic guys going through this drill. I mean, they, they, you know, we, a lot of people think of defensive line, you just think of like these 350 pound guys that are just space eaters and stuff like that. Now, is there a place for guys like that? Sure. But this particular group is just athletic, you know, there's a bunch of long guys in there. There's a bunch of fast twitch guys in there. They're just an athletic group overall and it stands out when you see them in person. And so that, you know, it's hard for a lot of things to stand out when guys are just running around in helmets. But that is definitely one thing that stands out is they are athletic. They're long and they're quick. And those are the kind of guys that will excel inside of Al Golden's defense. That's what he wants. He wants guys that are fast twitch. They're going to get off the ball. They're going to be able to twist and, you know, slant and do some different things and just, you know, really mess with an offensive line, get in the backfield and then cause some disruption. I mean, that's, that's what he wants. And I have to say that this defensive line kind of checks a lot of those boxes. Now, we're going to talk in a second about, you know, some questions, what we don't know, what we don't know and things like that is some unproven talent in there. We haven't seen them do it on a Saturday, right? We've seen them do it in high school. We haven't seen them do it, you know, in a Notre Dame uniform on a consistent basis. But man, is there a lot of talent there. There's no doubt about that. So, there we go. Let's transition over to the next part of this particular conversation. It's our biggest question marks or what we don't know. And let's move a little bit to the outside and kind of the hanging question that we seem to have a lot going into the season and this season is no different. Will Viper be any better? Will Viper be that position that Notre Dame needs it to be? That might be the biggest question mark on this team on this defense for me. I mean, honestly, yeah, like here's the thing, they don't need Viper to be any better than it was last year to be a top 10 D line because they had a top 10 D line last year and the Viper position gave you very little, very little, so it's like, like people talk about like, Oh, the Viper is my only concern. It's my concern too, but what is the concern in regard to that they're going to be a good D line? No, because they were in excellent D line last year and the Viper position wasn't very good. But the Viper position not giving you much is what hurts you in those games because like right now you're basically saying Howard and Riley, we need you to ball every game. Defense events, we need you to ball every game because Viper ain't helping out, right? Like we're not getting anything from them. We need you. So when they don't play there, you are in trouble. That's when you have your down game. So you need the Viper position to be able to be a consistent producer, right, elite production, but just more than what you did last year, own and then have a few games where they play. Well, like last year, we got there was like no games where the Viper position was a strike, none. I can't think of one anyway, where you go like, Oh, Viper was good this game. I can't think of one. You need at least three or four games, you're like, Hey, Viper is pretty good this game. Yeah, that's going to be a big key, Vince, because if they don't play better, it hurts your ability to really make that jump as a group. Sure. And then, you know, we'll get into some of the specific players later, but that position has to give you much better production than it had last year. I mean, I'm looking at the numbers now, Vince, and you look at like, you just look at the total production like junior to a Maca was your, you know, two A and two B last year at back of Viper. You had Burnham was part of it. Burnham did well. Burnham had four tackles for loss and had a sack as a backup defense on the field very often. But not a ton, but I mean, Josh Burnham had four tackles for loss last year. You're starter only at four and a half and four of those ACLs for loss came on sacks. Yeah. You know, I mean, so, so you didn't get a whole lot out of Jordan Patel and then one and a half of his tackles for loss and one of his sacks came in a bowl game against Oregon State's backup offensive tackles. So like during the regular season, you're starting Viper gave you three tackles for loss. That's it. Yeah. You know, now, and Josh Burnham had four tackles last year, one and a half of his last season was in the bowl game, right? So now you're talking about three from your starter, two from your primary backup and zero from your other backup. You got six and a half women. Hold on. Am I doing the math correctly? You got three, you had five and a half tackles for loss last year from your Viper position in the regular season, five and a half. That's it. Like that, that's really bad. Yeah. And so that's like, that's really bad. It's not good. And in Nana Ossoff-Amanza, the backup defensive end had five and a half by himself, you know? And so you're talking about your entire position group gave you five and a half tackles for loss. Like, Nana gave you five and a half last year by himself, didn't play in the bowl game. Like and you still had a top 10 D line, right? So any, any improved production from this group is a bonus. But again, what's the standard? It's the standard is, can you play for a championship? And if this unit is going to, is going to go into the postseason, and if this team is going to, you know, part of it is they may get some lucky breaks as far as who they play. But if they have to play Ohio State again, what hurt Notre Dame in the fourth quarter of that game? They couldn't, they couldn't get consistent pressure on Kyle McCord without blitzing. So on fourth and seven, they had to bring pressure because, you know, you, you, you, otherwise he's going to sit back there all day and pick your part. You couldn't get pressure with your front four. You had to bring, you had to bring a blitz. What does that mean? Means they're going to get in a good matchup and they're going to convert a fourth and seven, which is exactly what they did. Right. Right. You're going to need this position more than any other. This is the biggest question mark, in my opinion, of the entire defensive side of the ball. Sure. Is, are they going to repeat what they did last year? Are they going to be better? Because it's basically the kind of the same group, you know, you, you lose Burnham and you add Buba car. It's the same exact group. I mean, junior Talamaka, Jordan Patel, a little Buba car, that, that's, that's going to be the rotation. Can they give you more than what they got last year? I should add they, the position group gave you six and a half tackles for loss because I forgot about Buba car sack against USC. But, okay, I was way off. It's not good. How dare you? It's not good. And so that's the thing for me is that group, more than any other has to get a lot. But I mean, you've got to double your production. I mean, is that fair to say, Vince? Yeah. I don't think that would give me that or tackles for loss. That's it. That's not even what Isaiah Foskey did by himself in the previous two years, Vince. This is what I'm saying. So you got to double your product and it's got to be somewhat meaningful production. It can't be you don't you have five tackles for loss against Navy against trim option and you have three tackles for Miami of Ohio. Exactly. Right. Right. You got to be competent at those other positions. Right. Look, I'm confident defensive and it's going to be really good. I'm confident that defensive tackles and the nose tackle is going to be really good. Viper's the one I have no clue. No clue how good they're right. Let's just, I mean, look, I have dabbled in betting, never really over $5 a bet, right? I don't know that I would place a bet that the Viper position is going to be that much better than it was last year. I am so much in the, you've got to show me something, Jordan Patel. You've got to show me something Viper position in order for me to be a believer at this point. And I'm just being honest about where I'm at with this group. I feel like I've seen this show before. I've gotten excited before and I've been let down before. Now, I still think this defense is going to be really good and you, you did a great job of illustrating why this defense can still be really, really good without the production of the Viper. But think how good they can be with some production from the Viper. Like that's the biggest thing for me. You have been in this defense for three years now. You're super athletic, you're long, you're all of these different things. Well, one of the guys at the position is super athletic. The other two are just good athletes for the position, not elite. I'm just trying to make sure that we're, I don't think Jordan Patel and Jordan Patel are super athletic. I think Boobakar is. Yeah, right. But you know what? If Boobakar is who we think he could be, let's go buddy. Like now is the time you've got an opportunity here to climb the depth chart, in my opinion. Now I don't know, and again, you've said this before and I'll just, I'll kind of reiterate it real quick, whoever starts the game, that, okay, that's one thing. Who's in the game when it matters? You know, who's in the game when, you know, you need to stop a drive, you need the team to go three and out, you need to create a turnover, you know, you need to do this, you need to do that. Who's in the game then? I think that's going to tell us something. In my opinion, this position is wide open. And I know that Jordan Patel is the starter and I get all of that, he's been around. I just, to me, this position should be wide open. I think what, what, I agree and disagree. I disagree in that we know who the Deans are going to be. The Vipers are going to be. We know they're going to be. Where I think it's wide open to your point, Vince, and correct me if this is not what you're saying is, we know who they're going to be, but we don't know what the snap distribution is going to be. That's exactly what I was saying. Yes. That's going to be something that's a debate. And obviously, I hope Jordan Patel holds the starter because he's your veteran. He's your experience guy. You know, he's the guy that's had some of those flashes, but they're going to need junior to be better and they're going to need to boob a card to step up and tell us got to get a lot better. There's no excuse for a hotel. Now here's good thing is if you are on the board, you would have read this well over a week ago, almost two weeks ago now. That's been the feedback so far this summer is this is the most locked in that Jordan Patel has ever been. Great. This is the last chance, but I'm going to say about Jordan Patel. What I've said all summer and what I said about Marist all summer of the year before, that sounds great. I need to see it. I just I need to see it exactly before I'm going to buy in. But if he does step up, that's huge. They need him to be better. They need him to be the best version of himself. And we've seen it. It's isn't like we're still trying to rely on what he did in high school. This is a guy that had 10 quarterback pressures in the bowl game against South Carolina. In one game, Ryan and I sat there almost field level the way that the way that Syracuse the stadium is. And watch Jordan Patel just look great against Syracuse. We've seen him do it. It's not about well, he was really highly ranked and based on that, we're just waiting on the breakout to come. Right? No, it's it's we've seen him do it. I just want him to be able to do that and back-to-back games. That's all I'm asking. I mean, heck he had he had only had 18 pressures last year, three of them came against Ohio State. You know, he had a hit on the quarterback and I mean, it's so you just need to see that more consistently that that's going to that's going to be the key is he needs to be more consistent. And yeah, I mean, it's the biggest key. It's the biggest key to this. That position getting better is the biggest key to defensive line and we're about to talk about number two. Well, and I'll I'll just say this and it'll kind of transition us to the other side of the defensive line. I've I said this before on the on the night show and I'll I'll say it here and it's a little out there and I'm fine with that. I would not be upset if they move Josh Burnham over to that side and he just balls out to to to Viper. Yeah. Not going to happen. I get it. I asked about. Did you ask about that? All right. Right. Well, part of it is because of how and we'll get into we'll get into Barnum and Buba car here in a little bit because we're going to talk about both of them in the breakout section. But that's the reason why. Okay. It's it doesn't mean that it's not good. It may not happen eventually, but I'll just say this. If they move Burnham to Viper, it's because things went poorly. Oh, absolutely. Yes. I think to me and again, this is Vince talking. This is not Intel. This is not if things aren't going the way they want them to go at Viper. I feel like Josh and we'll talk about him in the breakout. So, you know, spoiler alert, you just said it, but I feel like he's going to have such a year that if they move, if they're having issues on Viper, they'll be like, you know what? We need to get this kid on the field more often anyway, let's let's move him over and let him ball out. You know what I mean? And that's that's how it's kind of like a combination. It's like, okay, they're not doing as well as they should. Josh is doing super well. Let's get him on the field more often. Like, that's how I see that in my own sick brain. The other thing is, and let's kind of talk about this as question number two, the question now is, can the big ends, the defensive ends, because the way just so people understand, when we say defensive end, that's one position in the Notre Dame defense, right? That's the field end, the big end, they call it defensive end. The Viper is the Viper, it's the weak side end is the Viper. So when we say defensive end, we're talking about that, and then there's three technique in those tackles, just so people understand. And so when you look at at that position, it was a strength for Notre Dame last year. It was the biggest question mark going into the season, and it became a strength. Javate Jean Baptiste was a great pickup last year, and Nana was one of the more underappreciated players on the line. He gave you five and a half tackles for loss and three sacks off the bench last year. You want to know why you're able to be a top 10 defensive line with your Viper, giving you almost nothing production wise, because you had one of the bestie tackle combos in college football. And at big end, you had Baptiste and Nana gave you 16 tackles for loss in eight and a half sacks. That, I mean, that's what it was. Now the question is, can they get that kind of production again this year? That's the big question. Right. With a whole new cast of characters over there, I mean, you lost a guy who was an absolute revelation at defensive end last year in Javante Jean Baptiste, and what he was able to do, and Nana obviously backed him up very, very well, and they were just super strong over there. You go, and you bring in RJ Obin from Duke, and I understand that he had not issues. That's not right. But like, this is a different defense. And so he's asked to do some different things, and to, you know, he's not just a rush end, you know, like he was at Duke. He's going to have to do some different stuff. And so that transition has been a transition. I mean, I'm not saying he's not going to be able to do it, but there was a bit of a transition when he first got over here. And so now that he's really kind of settling in, which is great to see. And then you've got Josh Burnham, who as I said earlier, it didn't feel like he played a whole lot last year, he's going to get a lot of opportunity this year to play. And you know, big shoes to fill for both of these guys. So you've got kind of the same cast of characters on one side at Viper, and you've got a new cast of characters on the other side at defensive end who have big shoes to fill and need to, you know, essentially be a strength of this defensive line. Can they do it? Yeah. I mean, that's a big question. I feel confident that it can happen, but we won't know until the season starts, and we see what they do gaming and game out. Well, the good news is, is RJ open is an experienced player, I mean, as a guy that brings over 20 career tackles for loss, I think he's got about 14 or so career sacks, he was a leader on that defense. I mean, they went as he went, I mean, now he's had an adjustment period, yeah, he's he went from being sort of like a wide edge rusher that just kind of came after the quarterback to now there has to be an all around player that's kind of, yeah, Vontay was a bit more of an all around guy at Ohio State, but he was more of a backup. He didn't have the type of guy and he didn't have the proven, you know, production and being a starter and all of that. So that therein lied to question mark was going into last year, and he was great. And now Washington, a great job getting him ready to go. Now it's up to coach Washington to get the same thing with RJ open, but you at least know there's a baseline of floor with RJ RJ at the very least is going to be better than what Nana was the very least agree. The question is, can he be as good as Jivante was? And then you've got Josh Burnham at the position and say, okay, well, can he be better than Nana? Can he be better than Jivante? Can they as a duo be better? That's the question. But here's one thing this group has that last year's group didn't have. They've got a third guy to play in this position, and we'll talk more about him specifically coming up and that's Bryce Young. And so the reason that I'm excited about the end position is that there is a level of proven production at the position in RJ open, there's a level of high, there's a high level amount of talent behind him in Josh Burnham and Bryce Young. And the fact that you're not just counting on one guy to hopefully replace what you had last year is always reason, Vince, why I feel good about this position being good because they don't need all three of them to be good, they just need two of them to be good. And I think two of them, at least two of them will be good. So I'm actually not worried about this position group. However, that's my emotional feeling, right? There's nothing practical about how I'm feeling other than emotionally and from an evaluation standpoint of what guys are talent wise. But as I've said a million times, Vince, potential does not win you football games production does. Right? And potential will get you beat because what I mean by that is if all we're doing is talking about what you can potentially be, it means you aren't that right now. And if you aren't that right now, then the production is not going to match the potential. You want a guy to be good, not could be good, right? And that's going to be the question. So even though from my evaluation standpoint, emotionally, my feeling about the big end position, the defensive end position is good. I don't, we also have to be able to look at it and objectively say it's still a question mark because we don't burn him hasn't proven that he can do it. He had four tackles loss in the sack last year. That's not proven production, right? Love the talent. Love the potential. Now it show me mode. RJ open was very good with what they asked him to do at Duke. Notre Dame's asking to do a lot more than he did at Duke. He's asking to be a much more diverse, versatile, all-around player than what he was at Duke. Those are all questions that we don't know if they can play to that level. Sure. The talent's there though. That's the exciting thing. And that's what we know, talented group. But does the talent turn into production? And does it turn into production? Like I fully expect Josh Burnham and RJ open to eat up Northern Illinois and Miami and Ohio. Oh sure. They better. Are they going to be able to go in there and call it station and handle business against the Texas A&M tackles? Are they going to be able to go up against Louisville's tackles and get after the quarterback in that game? Can they go against a very veteran group of offensive linemen, you know, Darius Washington was on my first team all preseason, all opponent team. He was voted preseason all AC, first team all ACC by the media. Are they going to be able to go against him and have success? You know, those are very good questions, Vince. And that's why I have to look at and say, yeah, I love the talent. And I think they're going to be good, but we need to see it. We need to see it. Now, if you want to, you know, kind of get into a little bit of, okay, I feel good about it. RJ open did have four pressures in a hit on the quarterback last year against four state. So I mean, we have film of him going against him. He led Duke and if you remember Duke had a lead late in the game against four state on the road until it once Riley Leonard went out, that's when it kind of went downhill for them. Sure. I've been actually played pretty well against them. I felt from a pass rushing standpoint last season. So, you know, four pressures in 26 snap pass rush snaps is a pretty good performance. And it was his, it was his third highest of the year behind. He had three against clean. And that's the thing about RJ. It's like, yeah, he's got a show, but he had five pressures last year against Clemson, three hits in a sack going to pro football focus, you know, had three pressures against NC State, who was an eight nine win team last year, five pressures against Northwestern, who was a ball team last year. So I mean, three pressures on the road against Drake, May and North Carolina. So he did play well in the biggest moments. That is one thing I really like about him. Now we just need to see if he can do that consistently and we need to see if Josh Burner can be the guy that we think he is. Sure. That's going to be the key. It's in. I'm optimistic about it, but we also have to be honest and say it's still a question mark. One of the things that you had mentioned or that we talked about kind of earlier and how deep this team could potentially go, and it's the depth and we like to talk about the depth. We talk about them going 10, 11, 12 deep, you know, actually playing in a game. But what kind of production is that depth going to produce? You know, you're, I think your exact quote was, yes, they'll play. Are they play makers? I think that's a legit question. And how deep on that depth chart can you go and still find play makers, right? I mean, we were, we, we as fans Notre Dame was eyelash away from their two starting defensive tackles being in the NFL and these depth pieces that we're all excited about being depth pieces would have been starters, you know, and so what does that do to your depth and how does that make your depth even stronger now that those guys have come back. And so the, I think the biggest question about the defensive line, as far as depth is concerned is how far down are you going to go before you stop hitting playmakers and you start just hitting guys that are playing? And I think that's a definitive answer that, you know, we're not going to get right away. Obviously, you know, we can hear the coaches and hear what they have to say and they're excited about these guys and, you know, all these different things, but can those guys make plays when it matters? What counts? Yeah. I mean, can Jason Onye take what he did in the spring into the fall where he was disruptive and one of their better defensive linemen can, can Josh, can the guys behind, can Junior Tillmock and Boobakari or step up, can Josh Burnham and RJ open, can that depth of that group give you plays? Can Bryce Young help you out? Can Diamond Heinish be even better than he, I mean, he was a solid player last year in his first year in the rotation, showed some promise, a little light in the pants. You know, what she's young. She kind of got thrust into the rotation early when Gabriel, welcome to being a Heinish being like a little bit, you know, but in Kurt's bigger than him, but Donovan's more athletic Donovan. Oh, yeah. I would argue Donovan has more talent than Kurt did. Kurt was just, I mean, Kurt was going to give everything he had. I really feel like Kurt's whole goal in life was to make me look stupid. I really did. It was like every time I'd say something negative about him, he got the next week and like had the best game of his career. Yeah. I love that about him. Yes. But Donovan's more physically gifted. He's just not as big as Kurt was at that same age. Because remember, Kurt played as a true freshman at Notre Dame, but he's a year older. He's stronger. You know, he's got another year in the weight room and those type of things because so, so he's now in that role where he's not helping you because he has to, because Gabriel got hurt. He's now going to help you this year because he's ready to help you. Can he make more plays than he did last year? You know, that's a legitimate question. When Gabriel Rubio comes back, Gabriel was a really good run stuffer, but he didn't make a ton of plays. Can he make more plays this year? That's going to be the question, Vince, because, you know, you've seen some Notre Dame teams that have some really good start, I almost said, great. The 2012 team had a great starting offensive, defensive line. The 2015 team had a really good starting defensive line. The problem in both situations was when they went to their next group, there was a big drop off. Love Tony Springman, great effort guy, big drop off between Lewis Nixon's and Tony Springman. You know, big drop off between Capron, Lewis Moore, and Kona Schwenke, the late Kona Schwenke. Big drop off between Stefan to it, and a true freshman version of Sheldon Day, right? Just big drop off. Just like in 2015, there was a big drop off between Sheldon Day, who had one of the best detackle seasons the Notre Dame guys had in 20 years with 15 and a half tackles for loss in 2015 to whoever they brought in to off the bench. You know what I mean? And same thing it knows tackle because you were already down, drawn Jones, and then, you know, got Jerry Tillery, and there was a drop off when Jerry Tiller came off the field, and they put Daniel Cage on the field. There's a big drop off when Isaac Rochelle or Romeo Quara worn on the field. There just was a bigger drop off. The great defenses, and Ryan, and I've talked about this in the past, was like that 2021 and '22 Georgia team, they would have a guy come off the field and put a future first round draft pick. I mean, in 2021, Jalen Carter didn't even start for Georgia. That's crazy. The depth that they had was unreal. Right. It was unreal. Right. I mean, you know what? If Notre Dame can have guys, you know, when those guys come on the field, can they give you play? Can not just give you snaps, but can they make plays for you? Because remember in 2022, our goal would do like mass substitutions on the D line, and it's like almost every time he'd almost do like a mass substitution at number two, and the other team would go like right down the field and score. And you're like, dude, you got to stop doing that. Now you say, well, you know what, I actually, we may see that a little bit this year, and you feel good about it because of own yay and, and high-nish and then when Rubio comes back and you've got Burnham or, or Oban or, and Buba car out there, like, you know what, there won't be all right. You know what? You'll be all right. That's going to be a key. Can they provide that for you? And the potentials there, Vince, but again, the concern, the reason these things were being talked about in the question mark areas, because right now it's still all about potential. Yeah. And it hasn't turned into proven production. And it's confident potential on our part. I mean, we're confident that these guys are going to be able to do certain things and rack up certain stats and, you know, all of the, all of the, all of the like, but it still hasn't happened yet. And that's why it's still a question mark. I mean, you know, I would like to think that we're always right, but it would be nice to see it on the field as well. And so that's why it's still a question mark for us and why we have to put it in another question mark category, because it's something that we haven't seen on a consistent basis on a Saturday in Notre Dame uniform. And that's, that's the fun part about college football is the turnover and all of those different things. And I think at the end of the day, you know, if, if these question marks that we have get answered in a positive manner, even mostly answered in a positive manner, you know, this defensive line is going to be really, really, really good. Before we move on to section number three, where I guess for today, make sure you hit the like button, subscribe button that notification bell share with your family and friends and make sure you jump on the boards boards at Irish Breakdown.com where again, we are going to be hitting practice tomorrow and there's going to be a practice support put up as soon as we get done. And the only place where you're going to be able to find that is on the boards. So make sure you sign up and you are ready to rock and roll. So, let's go. So, let's go. So, let's go. [BLANK_AUDIO]
