(dramatic music) (dramatic music) (dramatic music) (dramatic music) (dramatic music) (dramatic music) (intense music) - Everyone has something to share, an either wisdom, story, or logic. And it's clearly amazing to hear all the different missing links discovered by people, unique to their own journeys. And then how they have come to discover them. Together, we can help to build a bigger picture for a better future for a brighter tomorrow. Let's stand united, let's remove the veils, and let's create a new world together. Are you that missing link? Join Jesse Hale on the Missing Link talk show, as he helps to unveil the mystery through the unique wisdom and story of others. (dramatic music) - Welcome, welcome, welcome. Welcome everybody here back to the Missing Link. Today, we're excited and honored to have back for a second time, an author of An End to Upside Down Thinking, which won an IPE award for the Best Science Book of the Year. He's also the author of An End to Upside Down Living, An End to Upside Down Liberty, An End to Upside Down Contact, and An End to Upside Down Reset. And he's also the host of the podcast, Where Is My Mind? How are you doing today, Mark Gover? Welcome back to the Missing Link. - I'm well, Jim. Yeah, thanks, Jesse, for having me. So how are you doing, how is things going with you? - Yeah, it's been busy periods since we last talked. I wrote a book about medicine. I don't think we talked about it last time, but it goes into many of the questions people have been asking about the relationship between germs and disease and what viruses are and things like that. I also have another book that's not quite done yet that I've been working on. And just trying to monitor everything that's been happening in the world. I think what we spoke about last time, many of the trends in the world, they just keep continuing where we seem to have this bifurcation where there are some people that really kind of see through the agendas and prefer freedom and others that are perhaps going with the agendas more. But I do think that with more and more turmoil in the world, the deception is becoming more obvious, that something's not right and more and more people are asking questions, so that's encouraging to me. - That's so encouraging. I think more people I've seen are like and aware in this last four and four and a half years than I have in the 30 years combined that I've been rattling these cages. So it's really exciting time to be alive. So why don't you start off with telling us about yourself and your journey, a little bit about your background, your education, what got you into writing books, what part of the world you live in, what part of the world you grew up, what part of the world you, if you like disclosing where you live in now, anything about your journey that you wanted to share with our audience here today, especially if they may be hearing you here for the first time. - Sure, well, yeah, I'll give my background because where I came from is very different from what I do and speak about now. And I grew up on the East Coast, outside of Baltimore, Maryland. And I went to college at Princeton University in New Jersey. Then when I graduated in 2008, I worked in New York in investment banking at a large global investment bank called UBS. Then I left New York in 2010 and joined Baltimore. I ended up spending 10 years and became a partner there. First in Boston, but the majority of my time was in Silicon Valley. And that company was focused on advising other firms, both large and small, on their technological innovations. And in particular, their intellectual property. So let's say they invented something really important and they filed lots of patents around it. They needed help on the business strategy or sometimes they wanted to buy new patents or sell some of their patents or license their existing technologies. So we got in the middle of many deals like that in a variety of industries. So on the surface, I have a pretty mainstream background, but things shifted for me starting in 2016 while I was still working in Silicon Valley. And I started listening to podcasts. That's basically the origin story here, is that actually taking a few steps back, I would say I had a dark night of the soul if I look in hindsight where I didn't feel that there was any meaning or purpose to life. I just thought it was all random and meaningless. And that's what science was telling us was true. So it becomes like running on a treadmill at a certain point when in my position I was trying to constantly achieve and win at whatever I was doing. And I didn't have a sense of meaning or even understanding why I was doing that. It's only possible to do that for so long, I think. And I hit a wall and it happened to coincide with this period where I started listening to podcasts. And I came across what you might call the supernatural, which to me is not really supernatural, it's just understanding reality from a broader perspective. Things like spirits, non-local consciousness, meaning psychic phenomena, surviving in terms of consciousness when the physical body dies. I came across a science of that sort of thing. And that led me to just one understand more because it completely contradicted my worldview. So a year later, this was in 2017, I said I should summarize these findings because maybe there are other people in my shoes who have this traditional background that work in Silicon Valley or New York or finance or something, who might listen to the ideas for five minutes because it came from someone who had a similar background, whereas normally they might just put it down. So I said, I'm gonna summarize all this and cite all the sources, so there's hundreds of citations and things like that. And let's see what happens. Not thinking I would leave my job or anything, I was still working. So that was my first book called An N2 Upside Down Thinking. And that was published in 2018. Stayed in my job up. And then the next year I put out a podcast series with Blue Duck Media called Where Is My Mind on very similar topics. And then at the end of 2019, early 2020, I was still pulled by these more philosophical metaphysical questions about what are we doing here, who are we, and decided to leave my firm, which was a tough decision because I had become a partner, I was on a really good track, and yet I felt my energy being pulled in this other direction. So I said, I need to give myself space, I don't know what's gonna happen next exactly, but I can't split my energy in this way and I don't think the path I'm on is the right one for me. So I left the firm and long story short, I've just been writing books since then. So I wrote an N2 Upside Down Living, which is about the spiritual awakening journey, then an N2 Upside Down Liberty in 2021, which is about the philosophy of volunteerism, which is basically privatizing everything that we call government. It's a challenge to what's meant as stateism. Then an N2 Upside Down Contact, the next year in 2022, which looks at the evidence that we are not alone and that there exist non-human intelligences, whether they're in the physical form or also the spiritual dimensions, which is an important part of it. Then an N2 the Upside Down Reset, which is about the World Economic Forum's great reset, laying out exactly what it is because it was an explicit plan published in a book called COVID-19, The Great Reset by Klaus Schwab and one of his colleagues at the World Economic Forum. It laid out exactly what the vision for society is. And so I went through a critique of what it is they're saying and why even though it sounds nice in the surface, even though they talk about compassion, the plan in my view and many others have said this too, is one that's not really about liberty. And the most recent book that came out, which we didn't get to talk about last time, it's called an N2 Upside Down Medicine, which challenges the allopathic model of medicine. And like I said, I have one more that's coming out soon. So I don't know exactly what's next. I've been in this cycle, I guess a creative cycle for several years now where all of a sudden I get pulled by a new topic that I didn't even expect to be pulled by or maybe I had heard about it for a while, but never thought I'd write a book on it. And it seems to keep coming. I never know when it's gonna stop. I always say maybe I'm done and this is it. So I'm kind of in that mode right now because I'm at the tail end of just finalizing the latest book. And I don't really know what's next, but I will say generally speaking, I find myself wondering who we are, why we're here, what is this place? And given the answers to those questions, what should we be doing with our lives? - That's amazing now. I've wanted to write lots of books over the last 30 years. I start and I start writing stuff down and I just kind of don't continue on with it. Is there any advice that you would give like myself or anybody that hasn't written a book before that has an inspiration to write a book? How to maybe tackle it? - That's a great question. Let me preface this by saying, I know I've written a lot. I feel like I was trained to do this in many ways. So in my undergrad at Princeton, I had to write a thesis in order to graduate. And then when I worked, especially in Silicon Valley, I had to become very accustomed at creating narratives for senior management teams, boards of directors, CEOs, things like that, where I take a lot of information and then put it into a PowerPoint, which is not writing a book, but very similar. But in that process, I learned how to synthesize information. And so take a lot of stuff. And then in one sentence, be able to summarize what all that was. So I guess, let me take a few steps back. Depends on what the topic is that you're writing about. Because if it's a fiction book, it's obviously a little bit different. If it's an autobiographical book, it's a bit different. But the prerequisite to me is having a real passion that you want to do this. Which is beyond a fleeting thought of, it would be cool to write a book. I wouldn't be able to do it. For me, when it comes, it's like, I have to do this. Otherwise, I can't move on with my life until this is done. It would be really challenging for me to get to that point. But then once I get that hit of like, okay, I've got to write this book. I then create an outline. I think this is critical. Which lays out the flow and the narrative of what you want to say. The final book doesn't usually turn into exactly what that is. But it's generally pretty close. And what happens is that I'll take one part of the outline and maybe that's a chapter or two. And then there will be an outline for each of those bullet points. So having that structure as you write is really important. To know like from start to finish, generally all the things you want to say. And try to also have like various details of just points that you want to make. So sometimes I'll just write them all on a piece of paper. And as I've been able to include them in the narrative, I'll cross them off. So it becomes a more methodical way of trying and to get across all the ideas. And then the other thing I would say is to have some readers that you really trust to take a look at it. And because sometimes as a writer, something seems obvious to you, but maybe an extra sentence would really connect the dots for a reader. And that's important because if they lose one step, they might not understand things five layers down the road. So having someone else to come in who hasn't seen it before is a really helpful thing, especially someone who doesn't necessarily agree with you. I mean, sometimes it's good to have someone who agrees with you, but then also someone who doesn't agree with you. That's important. - So Mac Donald Dawn says, if I start dating a lady with breast implants, he'll end up in Silicon Valley, too. (laughs) - Yeah, I've not heard that one before. - He's our local comedian. He likes to add a little bit of humor with his comments. So investment banking, what was that like? What did you learn about that? Did you know at the time it was all tied to the Rothschild banking cartel? And is there any kind of insights now that you look back that you may have came across that maybe you wanted to share with our audience today about maybe the good or the bad that you may have seen throughout it? - I did not enjoy that job. So in investment banking, especially at the lower levels, it's known to be difficult. Where you're sort of a grunt worker, that's just the name of the game that you get in, and you're doing the grunt work for the senior people creating pitchbooks. So investment banking, in what I was doing, was a combination of murders and acquisitions, which is helping companies sell themselves into another company, or helping a company acquire another one, basically being the intermediary, or helping companies restructure their financials, or also helping them raise money. So you're the intermediary for companies that need corporate advisory. And I, as a lower level person, didn't have insights into what was going on at the top. I mean, I was taking orders 10 levels down, basically, of create a price chart of what this company's price was before versus today, what it looks like, it's supposed to be in the future based on estimates, make it look pretty, put it into a pitchbook. So that was the kind of thing I was doing, and maybe I was in some meetings with senior management teams to help them try to do the deal. But I never saw anything that points to what you were describing, or what I now know about the financial system, generally speaking. I will say that there is a certain type of personality. I mean, I met a lot of really good people too, but it's also a very tough industry. So I could imagine that there would be corruption in an industry with so many tough people. - Now, when was your aha moment about realizing that it's a cartel, that they're basically controlling all of the world's finances, all of the world's governments? Like, is that something that you've figured out? And maybe, how did that come across? And what was your thoughts once you did find that out? - Well, for me, 2020 was really big, because my first book, In End Upside Down Thinking, and then even in End Upside Down Living, was more on the metaphysical. It wasn't talking about the deception within our world itself, the world that we all just inhabit. And with 2020 and everything that happened around COVID and media manipulation and things like that, I started to ask questions. And also in 2020, we had a big election. So there were lots of political questions. And I, at that time, was not a very political person. So I wanted to understand what was going on in that realm. And it led me to my third book, In End Upside Down Liberty, which is on the notion of volunteerism, which means that everything we have within government right now is really not a voluntary exchange between a service provider and a customer, meaning we didn't hire the government to manage the economy for us. They just get to do all sorts of things, like adjusting interest rates and federal reserve and all these things as if they're going to make it better, because as a third party, they somehow know what's best for the economy. To me, that's where it all starts, is having a centralized power that can affect the economy, and that corporations and any businesses can actually work with government because there's all sorts of lobbying to change the rules of the game effectively. And once I realized that government, as we do it, is not only toxic, but strenuous. We could do everything that government does right now in a private sector, because what's government? It's just a bunch of human beings doing things. The only thing is that they have money coming in no matter what, because they collect taxes, whereas in a free marketplace, if you don't do a good job, people don't buy your service. What happens right now if you don't do a good job in government? Well, the government's still there. So it keeps growing. That's to me the core of this. And it keeps, well, that's a great point. It keeps growing because what they say is, we have a problem in this one area. We're not doing very well. So you need to give us more money. In a free marketplace, if you don't do a good job, you don't get more money. You got a business or you lose money. So you end up with perverse incentives. And to me, that's where it all starts, and the net trickle sounds, the economy. We had a purely free market. Sure, would there be corruption? Yes, but you wouldn't have this, what I would call a, it's a political monopoly. That's what government is. We wouldn't have that at the center pulling all the strings. You mentioned volunteerism. And you said it was the privatization of all of government, but doesn't, I know we have a corrupted government and it's working backwards, but the privatization of all of those things could also lead to corruption, especially in the current model system that we're in. So how would a volunteerism system, maybe you can explain what it is, and how do you think we could stop corruption from, you know, infiltrating every part of life like it is now in our current system? It's a very good question. Let me preface by saying that ultimately there needs to be a shift in consciousness because whether a business is in the public sector, or the private sector, it's human beings that are involved, and if the human beings have a certain level of consciousness, corruption will occur in any case. The argument that I try to make in my book, and into upside down liberty, is that it's relatively better with privatization than it is by having this compulsory political monopoly. It doesn't mean it's perfect. So let me take a few steps back. What do I mean by volunteerism? It's a society in which all interactions and exchanges are truly voluntary, meaning there is explicit mutually agreed upon consent between parties rather than implied consent, or what we have right now, the social contract, which apparently we've all agreed to, but I haven't seen what I agreed to. I've never seen what the social contract says. And in the great reset, Klaus Schwab and his co-author, Thierry Mallory, they talk about redoing the social contract. I was reading and I'm like, well, that's interesting because I would love to know what the original social contract was that we're redoing. But it's this abstraction that we have agreed implicitly to allow a third party to rule us versus involuntaryism. That's not possible because it abides by what's known as the non-aggression principle. Non-aggression principle is that no person should initiate any form of aggression against another person's body or the property that they own. The property could be land, money, clothing, anything like that. And aggression is not only violence, physical violence, but it could be fraud, theft, coercion, anything like that. So the non-aggression principle is don't do any of that stuff to someone. The caveat is that if someone initiates aggression against you or your property, you have a right to self-defense. That's all it is. So a society that abides by the non-aggression principle would be one that is truly voluntary. What do we have right now? It's not exactly like that. We have this implied consent where something could be forced on you that you didn't agree to. So think about it. If you hire a consultant, you would have a contract and it would specify all the things that that consultant's going to do for you, all the services they're going to give. The prices I'm going to pay, how to terminate the contract if they do a bad job, and you both sign it and you say this is what we're going to do. Do we do that for all government services explicitly and sit down with government as a service provider? It doesn't work that way. So what the argument would be here is that all the things that government does, whether it's servicing roads or the court system or police and those sorts of things, because it's just human beings, that could be done in a privatized way, would necessarily be perfect, where you have an explicit contract with a service provider. They don't do a good job. You find another service provider. But those are important services that any society probably would want. You'd want to have legal services. You'd want to have roads. You want to have police and military or whatever it is. It just happens to be that government does those things right now in a monopolistic way. That's really the only difference. So it's not that the thing itself goes away. It's just the manner in which it's done could change. And we don't know exactly what would happen because in a free marketplace, you can't predict the new products that will come up. Maybe there's an innovative business model that we haven't thought of that could service people better. I worked in Silicon Valley and I saw this all the time. People coming up with things that we hadn't even considered before, because it's a relatively free marketplace where people can innovate. And in the government system, that sort of innovation is typically stifled or more stifled. Richard Hawkins is now on our Rumble channel and he's saying, "I know Mark, but the people in charge always have the wrong consciousness." And I don't know how we change that. Any thoughts? It's a challenge. I mean, we start with our own consciousness first to be able to recognize where the corruption and deception are. And in a free marketplace, under volunteerism, in theory, you don't have people in charge, so to speak. I mean, you have people that own things, but right now we have an ability of central government to initiate aggression against people in their property if they want to. I mean, arguably taxation is a form of aggression, where you earned your money, Jesse doing something, and then the government can comment and say, "We're going to take some of that." And if you say no, then you go to jail or whatever. I know there's common law as well, but let's just say for general purposes that that's a form of aggression against you, there's someone in charge in that sense. But let's say in a privatized system, let's say private security, for example, the security company that you might hire for your street that's going to protect it, they're not really in charge of you. You hire them to protect it. And if they don't do a good job, you find another security company. So the notion of being in charge to me occurs more under the current system of government, which is a very good question that the guest asks about the people in charge to have often a toxic consciousness. They have a toxic consciousness and they're in a system that allows them to be in charge. That's what government really is. And going back to political philosophers like Thomas Hobbes, there was this belief that while human beings are problematic, and so we need to have this government there, because people are basically irresponsible and warlike and they're stupid, so we need to have someone in charge. But the logical flaw is how do they find the person in charge? It's just another human being that's a subset of the people that they just said were warlike and stupid and irresponsible, and you're going to take some of those people and put them in charge in a position of power, which doesn't really make sense because you said you don't trust the people. And then you say, well, it's okay because we're going to elect them in an election, but then if you don't trust the people, how would you trust that the elections would be fair? And how would you trust that the people that you don't trust are going to pick the right people to be in power? It's very logical. 100% and for what Richard also says, my kind of response is that they're only in charge because the people allow them to be in charge. We outnumber them a million to one when the people stop participating in their scam, fraud, bullshit, inverted twisted matrix, they no longer have power and they're no longer in charge of anything or anyone. It's just people voluntary allow these people to be in charge of the masses. And when people realize wake up and stop participating, then their power structure crumbles. I think that's well said. It's the understanding that there's an inversion here. It's the notion that the government serves the people. I know in theory, that's what happens, but that's not. There's a group that serves the people when you have a contract that specifies that. And that's what happens if you hire a lawyer or anyone else and like they are actually serving you as a service provider. You hired them. We didn't hire government per se, so there's that distinction. We have this entity that has special privileges with government. You mentioned something interesting when you first started and I'm wondering if it was a Freudian slip or what, but you had mentioned the World Economic Forum and you said this was their plan. Is that, you know, do you think it still is their plan or do you think their plan has now maybe had to be altered or it's no longer even possible with people. You know, the way people have woken up because it was interesting. You said this was their plan. Yeah, the reason I use past tense. That's a good catch Jesse is that it was a plan that was laid out in 2020. That's what I should have said. That was when it was first launched officially and it was. Klaus Schwab and then Prince Charles that announced this in the summer of 2020 so very high level people and then the book came out COVID-19 great reset. I view it as it's, it's a vision for society and it's probably not the first time that there's been a vision like this it's just the newest branding of it. Where there's a centralization of power and less freedom ultimately I know there's a lot more details to it. So I do think it's still underway. It's probably, probably more advanced than it was in 2020 in some ways but at the same time there are more people who are aware of it who can see through the deception. And ultimately I think that's where it's going to go where we as individuals make decisions ourselves. I don't think we can change the system or take down the system so to speak like the system is going to do its thing. And then we get to we get to decide how we're going to live our own lives. That's how I see it. It's more about the individuated consciousness making decisions and doing the best that we can. And we can't control other people's actions per se. Now we've had a few people come on to the missing link live and talk about, you know, them presenting some evidence or sending some emails and that's the reason why Klaus Schwab stepped down. Your thoughts on him stepping down and that which is made a comment the WEF is running this realm so thoughts on if that is happening if they're actually the ones running this place and thoughts on, you know, Schwab is Schwab stepping down. I don't have any insights on him stepping down so I don't know exactly what's going on. And I also want to add just from my experience living in New York and Silicon Valley and places like that and being around a people who are a lot of people who are very successful. I'm not convinced that every single person who has some relationship to the WEF or other power structures has a negative intent. I think some of them probably do, but there are people that get sucked in who think the ideas sound good and don't realize that it actually is going to have a negative effect. So as the saying goes the road to hell is paved with good intentions. There's probably the split of some people who have good intention but they're just advocating for something really toxic and they don't see it. Then there's some people who know they're advocating for something toxic and they want to enslave people and then you might have people who are mind controlled or blackmailed, even threatened, bribed who are under the control of a third party. And it's hard to know which is which without actually knowing the details of how it works. So I'll just say that as an overarching thing I don't have special insights into any individuals beyond just looking at the plan and can show from an intellectual logical perspective why it's a problem. And then to your audience members question about the WEF are they running this realm. To me, all of the dark versus light is occurring on a metaphysical level on a spiritual sense and maybe as human beings were tapping into those dark and light forces, the WEF certainly seems to be one powerful organization. And as Klaus Schwab has said we penetrate the cabinets, meaning that many of the people who are in governments all over the world have come through the World Economic Forum's Young Global Leaders Program so they've definitely learned about the ethos and probably implement that in certain governments. So they're one powerful entity, probably not the only one. And then whatever is above that entity from a spiritual level I think that's where it's at. Now here's a same person that which is says Bush Senior signed over America to the WEF in 1992 when the world leaders met in South America I believe it was Brazil. In my country I believe it was Brian Mulrooney but we had someone come on to the Missing Link Live and interesting enough she said that they don't actually have the authority to do something like that. And it's just people that are perpetuating this conspiracy that gives it power that gives them power when they didn't actually have any authority to do that to sign away countries to sign us to these things. And I was wondering what your thoughts on that are is that the only power again that they have is the power that we give them and if we think that we were signed over, we act like we were signed over. We feel like they're in control and they're the ones who are the most powerful here when they're not if we don't give them power and I was wondering what your thoughts on legally of what I may have just said. I don't know. There's a whole field which you and your audience may know more about than I do common law and knowing what our actual rights are relative to the government. I just don't know enough about that. But from just a spiritual perspective of natural law. How could it be that our rights as human beings could be signed over to any entity that that seems like something we would have to give permission to. And we are sovereign beings who get to make those sorts of decisions so the key is to know that we're sovereign beings and it seems like this world is geared toward keeping us in a state of ignorance. We don't understand that we have an innate freedom within ourselves and their freedom isn't something that comes from a third party. Now what do you know about natural law we've had Jake Jackson come on here numerous times he's an ex or he's a veteran and he spent the last like 12 years rewriting natural law and like making sure that everybody has their own freedoms or their own, their own constitution he's like constitution that basically was implemented nobody ever signed nobody ever agreed to it. So he's rewritten it he's rewritten a constitution that protects all of us and he's like everybody can sign this to know that they're part of this new constitution so there's lots of revolutionary people doing like amazing things. Like I said Jake Jackson has spent his last 12 years doing, but what do you know about natural law and thoughts on us creating our own constitution, where we sign it and now nobody has authority because this is actually we've actively participated in a new constitution that we've actually signed and you know become, you know, aligned with opposed to just something just throwing at us hundreds of years ago and supposed to have any value in this day and age. Well I don't know the specifics of that particular constitution but the concept of the individuals who want to participate signing something that aligns with volunteerism, whereas with the constitution I know for those who like believe in government. The constitutional republic is arguably the best or one of the best systems out there. The problem is, and I quote in one of my books, Judge Andrew Napolitano he's like, do you remember signing the constitution. I don't. So we didn't make that agreement explicitly perhaps we did unconsciously and this is what I know a lot of people are talking about in the natural law space where like we are unconsciously consenting without realizing it. Whereas a new constitution goes that sort of thing is basically just people voluntarily agreeing to be part of a certain body that's completely within the scope of what I would call natural law. And I want to, I want to zoom in on the natural law concept because it relates to my earlier work on consciousness and that's how I got super interested in volunteerism because I said oh wow, this ties back to the spiritual realm here, because if we look at what happens to people in near experiences, when let's say they're in cardiac arrest something major happens to their body where they think they're probably going to die. And their consciousness goes outside their body and they have this elaborate experience and they say wow I could see things with 360 degree vision. It's realer than real. I'm seeing a deceased loved one I'm seeing beings of light all these sorts of things. Sometimes they hover over their body and they see something accurately happening during the surgery. When they come back to life and they say look, I saw these things they tell the doctor and the doctor says how could that be because you were clinically dead like if there was any functioning in your brain. It would certainly would not have been enough to explain how you could see things accurately from above your body in such a clear way that so forth. But I give that preface because people often report a near a life review where they had their entire life flash before them but not just flash before them they actually become all the people that they impacted during their life. So the pain and also the joy they brought to other people through that other person's eyes. So what Dr. Bruce Grayson says from the University of Virginia who studied a lot of these near death experiences that when people come back from the stuff they say that the notion of the golden rule which is that we should treat people well because they are us at some level and that's what we see in the life review. That it's actually beyond morality, they say this is natural law, the people that have lived it. So if you say okay it's natural law to want to treat people a certain way like the way you'd want to be treated because we're interconnected. Then that would imply that anything that we do with government where it's forced on us, that would be a violation of the golden rule, meaning a violation of natural law. So like any system we do, whether it's worth assigning a constitution or some other structure, as long as that natural law the golden rule is being abided by at least under the way I look at it currently, that would be okay. And people could make many iterations of what that is, but as long as you're not being forced to do something that you didn't consent to, and people are following the golden rule that's the basis of it. Yeah and Jake Jackson's constitution all aligns 100% with natural law that's how he's kind of, you know, based, you know, that and like I had an NDE where I got stabbed 12 times and I saw my, you know, lifeless body on the operating table as all the doctors and nurses were working around me and I got smaller and smaller. And I had to have the whole life review they had pumped me full of morphine I'd also, you know, been had to walk to get help and I was my lungs are filling up with blood and I had to, you know, wait for the ambulance so I just went to the other realm and just saw it and I was quickly, quickly out so of the same type of, you know, life review experience but, you know, I always knew I was coming back, you know, and even though when I left my body I felt at peace there was no pain. There was no it was just felt tremendously peaceful and loving. You know, I, you know, did come back and obviously was meant to be here this was maybe like 25 years ago when this visit happened. Wow. It's amazing how how many people have had such similar experiences in the state. And that was one of the compelling things to me when I started in this research path of it. Why, why would the, why would there be such consistency? It's not perfect 100% like you do not have a life review, but there's something that seems to happen when let's say the brain or the biological system is limited is liberated from the limitations that biology imposes it's like there's an expanded reality that we are able to see from that new state. And that's what the near death experience seems to unlock. One of the common themes, whether it's through life review or not, is that people's priorities and life seem to shift because of what they experienced, and they become less materialistic sometimes they change their jobs, they get divorced because they can't relate to their partner in the same way. So there's something about seeing reality is that that shifts people. And I see one of the members of your audience who mentioned Daniel Brinkley. I'm glad you mentioned that because I interviewed Daniel Brinkley for my podcast, Where Is My Mind? And he had multiple near death experiences and multiple life reviews, which is pretty rare to have multiple near death experiences and multiple life reviews. What happened is that in his early part of his life, he was in Vietnam and he killed people in war, but when he had his life review he felt what it was like to be the person that he killed through that person's eyes. And then he got he felt what it was like to be the child who no longer had a father because he had killed the father he felt the indirect effects of his actions. It wasn't quite as strong but he felt it anyway so it was the ripple effects, the inner connectivity that he experienced. So when he came back, he changed his whole life. I mean he became a hospice volunteer working with veterans because he was in combat himself. And then what happened in his later near death experiences and life reviews, which at the time he didn't know he was going to have, where he started his life review each time at the beginning of his life had to relive certain horrible things again, but then he got to feel what it was like to be the person dying in hospice and being frustrated by him. So he got to feel the good stuff too and the way in which he evolved, which is very profound when you think about it. Absolutely amazing. When we were talking about the contracts and natural law, Joyce Kerr from our Facebook says, can you speak on a low deal contract and I think she means a low deal titles that's kind of going around. Thank you Joyce for the question. This is an area that I have not looked at enough to be able to speak about. There's so many topics I want to look at and there's only so much time but I would like to learn more about it. Now you were talking earlier about, you know, patent in different patents. You know, you were, I guess, in patent law. And we had a comment here if I can find it where it was patents. Oh yeah, from McDonald Dawn of our rumble channel says patents are a death sentence for free energy inventors. And so we've heard this happened quite often that people that create free energy systems which that completely shatters the power structure of the entire earth, especially America. Anybody that has free energy, it's actually a threat to national security and the Department of Energy is of the highest ranking of, you know, the entire US government. And they've killed, bought out patents, you know, they've done a lot of horrific things to anybody that does challenge that power structure and I've also heard that the patent office is controlled by, you know, Chuck the turd son I think Edward of the of the royals there, I believe he controls the patent office and I've heard of people that have submitted patents that don't get approved that get taken somehow if did, again, you know, it's interesting. What do you know about the patent office and maybe some of the nefarious things that you may have heard, you know, in your time around it. That's a great question. I'll tell you from what I saw a lot of I saw a lot of of smaller inventors that invented something genuine. They patented it and the bigger companies would come in, steal the technology and then say, I'm going to fight this off in court. So, I don't care that you have a patent on it, and then they would end up winning in court because the legal system was corrupt or there were new laws that were passed that made it harder for the patent owners to defend themselves. So I saw a lot of the potential value if you had a robust patent system that could help the little guy. But then there is this other part to that I didn't see as much of if you have a really sensitive technology. It would be dangerous in basically submitting that invention to a government system. I don't know how all that works but I think that's there too. And now that I have all I have questions I haven't quite figured out yet of intellectual property at all, because it's such an abstract thing versus physical property we can point to it with intellectual property, especially a patent. You're entitled to the interpretation of words basically. So what you're legally entitled to if you read a patent is a claim, and like claim one will say, you know, like what is claimed is and it goes on this long run on sentence, and you get into debates about what the words mean. And if the patent was from 15 years ago and the words have changed their meaning today, you end up in a courtroom arguing about the definition 15 years ago, and you've got a jury and a judge and all sorts of complexities to it. I don't know of a good way of resolving the intellectual property issue, especially from patents. It's very complex and problematic for many angles. Yeah, it seems like things should be just free for everyone to use if there are things were abundant and people were sharing their technologies and people were sharing in the abundance if we had, again, that shift of consciousness where it wasn't all me me me me me And we're actually trying to better humanity with all the things that we're doing and everybody was working towards that same goal. I don't think the patent office would even be as relevant or needed if people were, you know, voluntarily, you know, wanting to share, you know, their inventions, their technologies, their food, everybody was sharing with each other. I think that would become a lot less important. So let me give you the perspective that I was when I would talk to inventors when I was working in my job and that now I see all sides of it. But for an inventor to come up with something new, it often requires a significant financial investment to actually bring the idea to market or actually to test it out. The argument often is, well, in order for an investor to want to come in, they have to know that their investment is protected, because if they just invest in something to help someone invent it and then someone else can come along and steal that technology without making any investment than the investor doesn't have as much of an incentive to give money. And the way it works, the ripple effect is, how can an inventor get funding? I don't have a solution to this, but what you said is also valid Jesse so it's like they're layers to this and for each situation is probably a bit different. Yeah, 100%. And do you know about who is in control of the patent office? I don't know if it was a circle or one of these things, but I believe that one of these power system structures are the ones who actually are in control of it. And so, you know, everything that is invented has to come through there and guess what, they can pick and choose, they can steal and choose, they can deny patents and then get their bodies to do the same thing and just change it a little bit like I'm sure a lot of that stuff does happen. That probably does. And even with patents that are granted publicly. I mean that's, that's the whole point of the patent system in theory is that you make your invention available to the public, and in exchange you have a time limited monopoly where you have rights to that technology. It's supposed to encourage openness, because you're given that short monopoly in the US it's about 20 years, and it changes depends on the country, they have different laws. But in that process like you're looting to by submitting the invention whether it's made public or just the patent office has it and it never makes it out to the public. You're disclosing what you've done so we can only imagine what goes on and it's just fascinating to have this conversation with you now because like I was in the belly of the beast in many ways working in New York and working in Silicon Valley and doing stuff with the patent office and working with companies that were in courts. And even having been in that, I only saw bits and pieces of it and wouldn't have necessarily known about the things that I would now ask questions about today. So it just shows you how many layers there are and how many people who are involved in the system who have no idea what's going on and I could understand how you could be working in the system and have no idea that you're actually an instrument for something dark. So that does give me compassion and I think it's important for all of us in the, let's just say the community that questions reality, which is I know your audience, that it can be tempting from the outside to be like this person is associated with this group and therefore this person's corrupt. Maybe but not always, maybe they're just a pawn and literally have no idea it's real possibility in many cases. And Hardy Smith from our Facebook says you can't patent love and kindness and cannabis they save and what's interesting is they cannot patent anything God made natural made so that's why they make synthetic copies that's why most drugs, most allopathic medicine. They take natural God made substances that are non patentable. They'll reverse engineer it they'll change it they'll make it so they can patent it because it's no longer the natural substance and then they pass it off as health and you know healthy products when they could just be, you know, taking celery and refining into, you know, celery juice and, you know, into the vitamins that come out of it and just, you know, mass produce it but it doesn't seem like they want to. You know, heal people they want to control people and or poison people with their synthetic, you know, copies of the natural stuff we're supposed to be consuming. Well, the whole health industry has a perverse incentive because it makes money when people are sick, making someone healthy is also ultimately losing your customer and that right there can explain a lot. Now in a profit over people system. Does that not be counter intuitive or counter to health care like it shouldn't that be the opposite shouldn't it be a people over profit system if we were, you know, saying that we're aligned with good and we're trying to help people like wouldn't the profit motivation and health care shouldn't be non existent when it comes to health and wellness. Theoretically, it should be like that and even maybe a step further is that the responsibility of our health is our own. And that's something that the system really doesn't want it wants us to be dependent on them to be healthy. And I've become really interested in something I mentioned in my book and upside down medicine only briefly called German new medicine. And it's very briefly and I'm not an expert on this but it ties emotional conflict shocks to lesions in the brain, which correspond to physical ailments and different organs. And the point is that if you can learn how to become less susceptible to those kinds of emotional conflicts, then you're less susceptible to physical ailments. And that means that you are responsible for your own internal state, ultimately. And that's a, I mean, this is a total paradigm shift in medicine, if anything, directionally close to that is true and there's a whole, there's a whole body of research in this area, which I think is completely fascinating. Because it does, if you believe that, then you don't need it in a third party. I mean, it is important to have third parties to help us learn and understand more about the body, but that's not what we have currently. It's more of you have this ailment, okay, here's this third party that's going to put a band-aid on it for you. And isn't necessarily going to tell you the root cause of why you're actually sick. They might get to some secondary cause, but not actually the root issue. But if we want to be healthy in a free society, because if we're going to be able to work on our own and not be dependent on the system, we need to be healthy and strong, then that's going to come from within, ultimately. And so much of it is within our own consciousness. That's what's the really hard thing for many of us to understand. I'm still trying to grapple with it. Because a physical ailment, we can point to it. We can say this is your symptom right here, whereas these other more esoteric ideas are talking about a non-physical cause, something in your consciousness, that then has a ripple effect that leads to a physical ailment. Whereas in the mainstream, a lot of what we hear is a reductionistic perspective, where everything that we think of as a physical ailment has to come from something that we can point to that's physical. Ultimately, we are our own best doctor. And like you said, we should be responsible for our own health. But when the cards are stacked against us, which it is in most, if not all cases, you go to a grocery store. And what do you find? Almost everything in that entire store from one end to the other is toxic. The middle isles are the worst. And then even the vegetables that are supposed to be good are not only now modified, they're sprayed, the meat is injected. There's more people, there's 90% of the pharmaceutical sold in the world get injected into animals. Imagine how many pill poppers are there out there that are taking handfuls of shit every day. That's only 10% of the pharmaceutical sold in the world. The other 90% gets injected into animals. So the meat is toxic. The vegetables are toxic. The middle isles are the worst of the worst. And then they're also, you know, fluorinating, chlorinating the water. They're also doing whatever the heck their gas or their sprays, their nanobots, whatever the heck is going, aluminum oxide, barium, whatever is going on in the air. So it seems like, you know, we ultimately are responsible for our own health, but it also we're, you know, battling a deck that's stacked against us. That is certainly true. And what I'll add to that is what I'm wondering more and more, how much we could even withstand that with the appropriate consciousness. Meaning if we're in a really good place, really centered, then perhaps we're better able to detoxify all of that better, because we're in a good state. We're not conflicted emotionally, for example, we're not living out of alignment with our true purpose. And perhaps when we're living out of alignment, then those toxins stay in the body better and our body is not doing its natural stuff. So it's a, it's like a both end. Yes, it's a toxic world in many ways, but also we had the emotional toxins that make it even worse. And if we could work on the emotional toxins and our own consciousness, to me, that's the root cause. So for me, it's coming up in September, it'll be 11 years once I stopped drinking alcohol, 10 and a half years since I stopped all synthetic drugs, 10 years ago since I stopped, you know, smoking cigarettes. And it's been coming up seven and a half, seven and a half years since I stopped eating meat. And ever since I stopped eating meat seven and a half years ago, I haven't been sick. I haven't had a cold or a flu. I went through this last four years with no breathing inhibitor, hugging people, going wherever I wanted, doing whatever I wanted, and I didn't catch a cold. I didn't catch a virus. And, you know, it seems like, for me, I've put done some steps. I've done the work. I am in a good, balanced place. I'm no longer, you know, stress doesn't, you know, really consume my life that much. And so I'm at a place where I'm not allowing these external toxins and poisons that I'm still eating, you know, vegetables and fruits that are sprayed and modified and I eat the seedless grapes. So I'm not, I know, and I still like my ice cream. I'm not on a perfect diet, but it seems to be working for me and I'm not allowing all of the stuff that I know that's happening externally. I think we're resilient. And I think God made us a way that, you know, if we don't feel we're going to be affected as much as, you know, what is happening out there, it's less likely for it to harm us. I think that's critical, that my metaphysics, which goes back to my first book is that consciousness is central, the central substrate of all reality, and that we're like, individuations, the analogy I gave us from Bernardo Castro, a philosopher, who says that we're like on a stream, meaning we're all part of the same consciousness, fundamentally at some level, but we're an individuation of it. And if that's true, then that means everything that we call material, including our own physical biology is not fully physical. And that means what happens to us is influenced by our state of consciousness. They go together that reality is malleable based on where your consciousness is oriented. That's what I think you're describing that we can withstand things that would sound unbelievable because of our state of consciousness. I'll give an example that I mentioned in my book and end top side down medicine, which came out in the fall of 2023, where I talk about spontaneous things, Anita Morgiani is a famous case, she's been all over the world speaking and writing books, where she had terminal cancer, she was in a coma, tumors all over her body, and during her near death experience, she had a shift in her consciousness. She realized things about things about her own psyche, for example, and she was immersed in unconditional love. She was came back into her body, and when she was resuscitated, her tumors disappeared. She shifted her consciousness and her physical ailment went away. She was supposed to be dead. That should never happen under the current model of medicine and yet it can happen and does. And there are many other examples of spontaneous healings. So this just shows all of us the empowerment, hopefully, of what's happening in our own mind is within your control. So all of us right now, we get to control how we're feeling and how we respond to things around us. And it's hard because we can't point to it and we can't move something with our hands, but it's happening within our own psyche constantly. And Anita Morgiani is a great example of so my girlfriend Angeline, she's, you know, brought me aware of who she is and shares her stuff all the time and I'm aware of her, you know, story about the near death. I've actually invited her on the show and never got a response back from her to be able to come on to the missing link here, but not everybody, you know, can maybe experience that type of miraculous healing that there's a lot of people that are going. Most people are probably going through some type of ailment, something challenging in their life or another. I don't think there's too many that don't have like even though I'm super healthy, I just had a double hip replacement surgery because I couldn't fix my hips. You know, like there's things that you know I tried everything and even conscious even trying to rebuild the cartilage thinking about rebuilding and I tried all kinds of things to try to get it done and it's been a year and a half and I no longer live in pain anymore. And you know I'm able to do things and so, you know, it was one of those things that I'm glad that I actually went through and plus I also wanted to show people that they could go and get things done if they needed to and not worry about not being injected. That's the other thing I had to sign my life away I had to say that even if I was dying they couldn't give me a blood transfusion because, and I was cut open for six hours because they couldn't guarantee me uninjected blood. And I took the risk and again I'm obviously meant to be here I knew I was kind of rude there wasn't even a thought that I wasn't coming back and I was cut open for six and a half hours. And, you know, so a few days was a little rough I was a little woozy with all the blood that I did lose but obviously I made it here but what I wanted to say is not everybody can experience that miraculousness in, you know, certain healings but, you know, I we've had people on the show like a friend of mine who I went to, you know, played in junior high school hockey together. He was diagnosed with stage four only a cow game a couple months to live and he went on a 30 day water fast and only drink water for 30 days and he's nothing but raw organic fruits and vegetables ever since he doesn't cook anything. He thinks oils cooking it becomes rancid it becomes in the blood he thinks cooking is even bad for you so he only eats raw food fruits and vegetables. And that was 12 years ago and all the cancers are gone everything so, you know, even though you may be not be able to experience this miraculousness there's ways how far are you willing to heal yourself. How far are you willing to go away from your bread or your sweets or whatever it is that may be causing some of these things but where there's a will there's a way and I feel that, you know, we can basically get over anything if we truly, you know, set our mind in our tensions to it and then I think that there's a spiritual aspect like, you know, in mini emojani that there is help from the other side when we truly needed or and or deserve it. We make a really good point Jesse about the value of the allopathic system in certain situations and definitely an emergency is the allopathic system is life saving for people. Attendancy can be because we see the problems of the allopathic system is to want to throw it out completely. To me the problem is more that the allopathic model is the it's the rule rather than the exception and it should be the reverse, where allopathic approaches can be used for acute issues and it can do a really good job. The problem is that that approach is being applied to any ailment and if we could flip that where we have this emergency system that does such a good job, but then the majority of it is us trying to work on our consciousness and just be conscious of everything and live well that that's the root paradigm and then we've got emergency stuff to help you to help you get around the edge cases. That would be a much more empowering system. Brian from our YouTube channel says where do our thoughts come from because this is an interesting point because really I think we're hard. We have a soul, but I think our mind can play tricks on us. I think that they can they've used our mind to manipulate us. I think thoughts are coming maybe from, you know, a good place maybe coming from the dark place. I'm sure there's a whole mixed bag of everything and if you can control your mind you can control your body and I think a lot of people have trouble with their controlling their mind or at least not allowing their mind to control them. It's a very deep question Brian, because the thought to me is something that our deeper consciousness is interpreting. So if I say to you I have a thought what is the eye that is experiencing the thought I mean even that sentence I have a thought is differentiating between I and the thought. So it means that there's an observer and awareness that experiences the thoughts so then the question is how does the thought come into our awareness, because to me the awareness consciousness at some level it's a fundamental thing and some might call it God. There are different terms that people would use to describe that substrate that is all knowing and all experiencing. But then how does the thought come in which like Rupert Spira a philosopher he calls like everything we experience is a modulation of consciousness the thought is almost like a modulation a certain type. And we know from, for example, the science of channeling there was a book written by Helena Wabe on this topic the science of channeling where intelligences that seem to be external to us can come through our consciousness and speak through our vocal cords. Or maybe just the ideas can come in almost like our brains in antenna or a filtering mechanism that's picking stuff up from outside and it gets brought into us. So if that's true, then perhaps thoughts are coming into our consciousness in some way that we don't understand. And a theory that I've had more and more is that the way that we decide with our own awareness basically to orient ourselves towards positivity or negativity or basically what thoughts we allow ourselves to cling on to, then we become a magnet for different types of thoughts that doesn't answer the question of where the thoughts originate. And that's a deep metaphysical thing which I don't know the answer to but maybe we have an ability to choose what we latch onto as the thoughts come in. And as we choose more wisely over time, perhaps the negative ones don't come in as much. What do you think about black magic and dark magicians sorcery spells they say their spells in the spelling. It feels you know the Bible talked about pharmacia, these black magic sorcerers that may be what we're seeing this modern day allopathic drug induced, you know, oil based medicine. You know maybe that those black magicians but it seems like when you talk to people about certain things that go outside of the box that they've put themselves in. It's almost like they're under a spell and some people you'll never wake them up there just to the non player characters but I see everybody as our brother and sister even the ones that have put themselves in a box and I think it's just a matter of planting the right seeds and I think it's maybe just a spell that's put under so do you think that this mass, you know, mass formation psychosis that's been going on with people is just maybe some type of a spell that the world has been put under. Well to me magic is a just a phenomenon of manipulating reality and there was even a book written by Dean Raiden, the chief scientist at the Institute of noetic sciences called real magic, where he shows the science of how this is just a real thing. And in my view it can be used for different purposes. Some can use it for benevolent purposes and others use it to try to manipulate and that's the black magic that you're referring to. To me it's, it's real, it's just there are, there are pockets of people who seem to have possessed the knowledge to know how to manipulate reality in a certain way, whether it's rituals or whatever it is or using certain word that carry frequency to be able to impact reality in a way that violates traditional understandings, and it does seem that way in certain cases where people are so brainwashed that they cannot even shift their worldview when confronted with new information that should normally cause them to do so. Some MK ultra for example which is all declassified that the US government has been engaged in mind control so it's almost like our mind is a certain technology and our even our biology is the technology. And if you know how to press the right buttons, then you can get people to think a certain way, and often what happens in mind control is through a process of torture ultimately, a personality can become dissociated, meaning a person will have multiple personalities within the same individual and can flip back and forth between those personalities without even being aware of it happening. So that's a literal mind control where you can create a new personality and split the consciousness, and that possibility alone opens all kinds of doors to the power of the mind and the power of those who understand the mind to be able to manipulate us. And I think that in the COVID era for example I mean there was just so much fear that was promoted and you have to wonder what did that do to people's psyches did that shut down creative and critical thinking where there's and then so much fear and actual terror that they're going to die, or that they're going to kill someone by breathing on them, that they lose all rationality. And we're not giving anybody any medical advice here at all, but I, if, if say there was no bio weapon released, say there was no bat having sex with the penguin in a wet market and there was no lab leak, there was none of this stuff that happened and they decided to just do the mind virus. We're all going to die. It's something's been released when nothing actually has, they put it on all of their programming boxes tell everybody show pictures of our videos of people dying in the streets and all this kind of stuff. Do you think that people would have similar reactions people would actually make them get themselves sick that they could actually, and the addition obviously have the towers everywhere I think kind of helped being people being sick. But do you think that that stress that they say even medically is the number one cause of sickness and or disease is stress this is medical they talk about. Do you think if nothing was ever released that this last four years there could have been a similar reaction and people, you know, getting responding and actually even getting sick because the mind virus that was introduced into consciousness. Well, we know even from mainstream science that the placebo effect is a real thing that your consciousness can actually shift the way you respond to something and the no sebo effect is real to where if you have a negative expectation you can make something worse. So the power of consciousness is a real thing. Now to your question about viruses specifically that's generally what you're talking about. I in my book and ends upside down medicine I talk about the history of virology and some of the strongest evidence for someone new to this I would say is the series of freedom of information request responses that were received by Christine colleagues, where they were asking government agencies all over the world, including CDC top agent health agencies for an isolated virus without putting it through a cell culture, for example, without mixing with other things to know that you have just the virus because you'd want to have just the virus to then show that it causes disease just basic logic. And what the agency say repeatedly is that we don't do that, because the methodology used in virology dates back to 1954, the enders and people study, which involves mixing what they think is a virus with a cell culture which is a soup of cellular material, seeing that cells break down within that soup and assuming a virus is what caused that. And we end up with all kinds of problems of assuming that there's causation when it hasn't been established. And ultimately where we land is that there is not a true independent variable in the studies because you need to have just the virus by itself or to be an independent variable. And then there aren't proper controls done in those studies. So I think at the very least some people go as far as to say there's no virus has never been established. If we take a few steps back from that we could say while using the scientific method applied just normally meaning you have proper controls and independent variable, these studies in virology are not doing that, meaning they cannot have possibly established the existence of a pathogenic virus. So if we believe any of what I just said to be true and there's a whole body of very technical stuff on that, then what you're saying Jesse makes a lot of sense. That it wasn't something contagious that's going from one person to another and getting inside the cells and doing all sorts of things that no one's actually seen before no one's seen that entire process because seeing a virus allegedly requires an electron microscope, which is looking at something that's inherently dead and static, whereas a virus is supposed to be alive and moving around but an electron microscope only sees small things after it's already been dead. So there's a lot of problems with this, with this contagion model and we just we almost create movies in our mind of what's happening but no one's seen it happen in that way. So with that big preface in mind, what you're saying Jesse that maybe a lot of our sickness is coming from the stress, and then we're blaming it on something that hasn't been established truly using the scientific method. Wow, that is really a diversion because then we're offloading our health to this invisible enemy that's attacking us, rather than saying, hmm, maybe my own consciousness is the reason that I'm in trouble and I've been manipulated in my consciousness by believing deceptions. Did you know that they changed the word from venom to virus that it used to be actually called venom it was poison poisoning and that's what's going on so this so called spooky virus this invisible boogeyman that you said is actually poison toxins toxins in the food, airs and waters that's the whole virus thing and when you talked about this virus isolation process have you done the research on what they actually do to isolate the virus when they take a blood they pull it out. They centrifuge it they add monkey kidneys they add cow bovine so they're taking a human sample adding and this is the isolation process that's done everywhere that they're adding cow bovine which is a baby calf that they've killed from the mother bovine bovine serum it's like a fetus like a fetus is what they take so they're injecting cow fetus they're injecting monkey kidneys they're making mixing up this cocktail of animal and humans and voila look we got a virus and we can repeat that everywhere if you just do that same It's twisted you know isolation process because how could you take an animal and a human blood for samples, stick it together and then think that that was supposed or that came from in us when you've actually tainted it with all the different chemicals and monkey parts that you've put into that isolation process. I have looked into this and the word isolation is really a misnomer in that context. It's been applied to say that process you described and I'll go through it again a second is called isolation and virology but isolation really means to separate one thing from other things. So Dr. Thomas Cowan who's a medical doctor he's been very outspoken on this point the analogy he uses is that if you want to isolate a hammer from the toolbox you take the hammer out and then you can study the hammer and you can characterize it and you can do all sorts of things you can hit a nail with it and you can say the hammer is what hit the nail but if you haven't isolated that hammer then how do you know that the hammer is what caused anything you have to isolate it you're separating it. Whereas the process that was developed starting in 1954 the enders and people study involved, like you said, taking fluids from a sick person partially filtering them, for example, and then putting them into a soup of cellular material it's called a cell culture, which has these things like fetal bovine serum and monkey kidney cells and antibiotics and other things in it. And then says well once we added the cells from the sick, the fluids from a sick person and if some of the cells in the cell culture broke down and we assume a virus must have been in that sick person that caused the cells to break down therefore we isolated the virus. Whereas there are many other reasons the cells could break down maybe there was something toxic in the soup maybe there was something else in the person's body not a virus that caused cells to break down lots of things there. Isolation, and that's something I was not aware of but going back to those freedom of information requests what Christine Massey and her colleagues are asking of institutions around the world is show us real isolation, not the term that virologists use where you mixed stuff together show us the virus by itself and continually they say we don't do that. And even one of the ones that I quoted in my book from the Freedom of Information Request they said well of course we don't have that because the gold standard in virology is to put it into a cell culture paraphrasing. So it becomes a self reinforcing thing where they say well obviously we can't do it the way you say because the gold standard is just presumed to be true from 1954. The other thing I want to add that was it was a turning point in my research was learning that in 1953 that was the Watson and Crick double helix DNA structure discovery. So all the sudden we had the enders and people study which was this quote unquote isolation method plus the idea of genetics. So now we had this genetic parasite that what we could say infected people so it was a new model. It's when you think about it's not that old is notion of an intracellular parasite as a virus that gets inside of your cells. It's a pretty new idea. And I, I had thought that I knew during the 2020 era of COVID and onward people have been questioning whether SARS COB 2 exists and causes disease, but this has been a question for a long time even with HIV AIDS. But the question's and the Perth group is an organization your audience can look up the Perth group.com. There's a paper that they wrote called HIV a virus like no other, which goes through the methodology of how this alleged virus or in that case it was a retro virus was supposed to have been isolated and shown to cause disease. So there's so many of these things we just take for granted because we've been told it's true. But if you ask yourself really deeply well how did they know that this is true and you and you when you peel it back over and over again, the foundations are much shakier than we've been taught. 100% and Christine was asking about a book and I think she found it you were mentioning real magic by Dean. Is it Dean Radin? Yes, Dean Radin. Okay, that's, you know, Lisa says politicians are the virus to your thoughts on that. Well, it depends on how we define virus, but I would take a step further and say that the system in which the politicians operate is really the problem, because I don't think every single politician goes in with the bad intent, but they end up in a system where by definition they're imposing laws on people that didn't all consent to it. I mean, even the notion of democracy. It's a compulsory democracy, not a voluntary democracy. And let me distinguish where Jesse, you can vote for someone. And that person loses. And the opponent that you didn't vote for gets to impose something on you that you did not ask for. That's a form of tyranny against you and yet we're told that this benevolent democracy think that's compulsory, where basically the majority gets to impose its will on the minority, broadly speaking, versus in a system of volunteerism. Let's say we get together and we develop we build a company together and we agree together that there's going to be a board on the company and there's three of us on the board. And the majority wins. We've agreed to that beforehand. We realize that you might disagree with me and you might get to impose your will, but I am actually allowing that because we agreed beforehand that there would be a majority. It's very different than this compulsory form of democracy where there's an implied consent and the social contract. It's a slight difference, but a very important one. Do you think that voting now gives that consent? So if you go and actively vote. Now you're saying, Hey, guess what, whether my guy wins or loses on participating in your BS. So I'm basically giving you consent to impose shit that I don't want. If my guy doesn't win or and or does win, and I don't agree with the person that I voted for. Do you think that actually now, you know, that you voted you've given that consent to be governed over. It's a very challenging philosophical debate. I've heard many people give different cases to this. Some people will say what you just said that you shouldn't even give, you shouldn't even implicitly give your consent by engaging in the system. And you should just withdraw and not be part of it at all, not reinforce the system. Others will say, yeah, that's true, but you're being idealistic. And look, if we could get a politician in place, who's relatively less tyrannical, that would be relatively better. So let's vote and get the person who's incrementally better, and then we'll work on the system even more. Everyone seems to have different opinion on this. So I'm not sure what to say from a philosophical perspective. I do agree with what you're saying that non participation is probably the most is the cleanest. But then life is not always so clean and black and white. Now, we had an interesting comment from Brian and our YouTube channel. By the way, if you're going to share this out, don't shout the YouTube. We've been talking about viruses and this and that we have two strikes on this channel. We've had four YouTube channels deleted. I don't want to get this YouTube channel deleted. So as soon as we're done, this one's going on private, but you'll be able to see it on the other eight platforms that we are on just to protect that. So if you are going to share it out, don't shout the YouTube because we will go private afterwards. But Brian says, has anyone else noticed the push in the media about parasites and all the diseases coming from parasites. If this was already covered, I apologize. I joined in late. So no, we didn't cover parasites. And I think that that's an interesting topic because that's the new kicks. Apparently, if you put Coca Cola onto pork, a little maggots and things will come out of this pork is just like a dirty meat. If I ever eat meat again, I would never eat pork. You know, people are eating raw fish, what are in raw fish, parasites, parasites and worms and things. You know, it seems like people are very parasitic. And that's one of the reasons why they demonized, you know, anti-parasitics like Ivermectin and other things. Ivermectin is still pharmaceutical, so I don't actually, you know, refer anybody to take that. You could take some natural wormwood, you know, black seed oil. You could take some natural anti-parasitics. You can take some natural things, you know, that aren't pharmaceutical. But it seems like, you know, anti-parasitics is helping people cure cancers. It seems like our bodies are very overly parasitic. And if you stop the parasites, then the body can actually do its job to start healing the other places that you may be in. You know, what's your thoughts about Brian's comment about, you know, the push in the media? And I haven't heard too much in the media. The alternative media, I've heard a lot about the parasites. I haven't actually heard in the eye, but I don't watch any mainstream media, so I wouldn't know, I guess. But thoughts about the push in the media about parasites and that all the diseases come from parasites. Well, this is a tricky one because we get into questions about causation at a fundamental level. Questions, why are the parasites there? Are they there because they're attacking or they're there because they're cleaning something up that these organisms have underlying problems and parasites that are uniquely qualified to help get rid of that stuff. And then when you have parasites in high quantity, certainly that can be problematic because then they're doing their thing and who knows what their, like with bacteria, this is a similar example, where you have an infection quote unquote there's a lot of bacteria and they can emit endotoxins. And you can blame the bacteria, but what if the bacteria were there because you had an underlying issue that they were cleaning up, whether it was a physical issue or a psycho spiritual issue that was translating into something physical and then the bacteria had to come try to help the body and then flush it out. So that's where it becomes tricky. Yeah, there could be parasites, but what are the parasites telling us? Maybe that there's a lot of other toxicity, including emotional psychospiritual toxicity that's there. And so cleansing the parasites, maybe they do alleviate the symptom in the short term, but is alleviating the symptom, alleviating the root cause for why the symptom was there. I don't know. Maybe in the short term you get rid of it, but in the long term, you're going to have a health problem in another way because the root cause hasn't been addressed. This is getting into the theory. It's known as terrain theory in contrast to germ theory. And germ theory basically says there are microbial organisms that cause disease, they attack healthy tissue versus terrain theory says that nature is more symbiotic. And these microbial material organisms, they exist and they can show up in large quantity when you have a toxicity that the body's trying to work on or even in German new medicine there's a certain kind of a conflict, for example, an emotional conflict. You have these other issues, the microbes show up a lot, but they're just there to try to help as a cleanup crew. So they're not the cause. They're the effect of some other cause that's deeper. So I'm personally not sure what to make a parasites and all this stuff I'm just giving frameworks, but there are many layers to this. Well, just like apparently, like how you said, there's stuff in our body that is beneficial, bacterias, parasites, whatever, and maybe it's the out of balance is what's probably, you know, what's happening. And, you know, they say we have our stomach is our second brain. And it seems like they've been targeting our stomach with the foods, you know, and that's why things have become out of balance for most if not all people are battling just to try to keep the balance the symbiotic, you know, happening, whatever, and they'd make food so good. They make poison so good that it's hard to like not consume poison because, you know, we've been programmed to do that for most of our life. And I think getting your gut back in health in order. I think that should be of the utmost if anybody is battling or just you want better health. You want to get your gut in balance, you know, before taking any steps, especially pop in a bunch of pills. Well, the body is so complex. That's what I'm appreciating more and more. And this goes back also to the virus discussion of trying to understand what a virus is and isolating it. Think about how that's done. It's done in a laboratory setting in a cell culture where you're mixing substances together, but how is a virus believed to work. It's inside of a living organism that has all kinds of stuff going on. So Harold Hillman is a scientist who looked at this where he says, basically, you have these artificial environments and we're extrapolating all sorts of things about how microbes work, but it's not in the native environment where they actually should be functioning, which is way more complex, and we're drawing conclusions, perhaps inappropriately. So it's very difficult with all the stuff to take this one pill and know exactly what it's doing because it's changing the balance of a complex organism. And we can try to infer and we should be because we're trying to learn, but there's so much going on at once, especially once you start incorporating consciousness. And that is a variable in the person. It's hard to know what's what. And it's also hard to prescribe something for the general public for all people, because each human is unique. So how can we always know that this one remedy is going to work for this one person when it's much more complex than that? What's your thoughts on, you know, mother earth or the earth that we live on providing the medicine that we need so if you're living in an area that you got a lot of yellow dandelions popping up. There's maybe a good chance the earth is telling you, maybe you should be consuming these yellow dandelions, but it seems in this inversion, they've convinced people that some of the healthiest things we could be consuming are weeds and should be sprayed and should be removed and are ugly. And, you know, these maybe are popping up because it's the earth telling us, hey, maybe you should be consuming more of these things that your society has deemed as ugly and not wanted. It's an interesting perspective, I don't know enough about the various species, but what we can say is looking at cultures all over the world, both modern and ancient, they use things from the land to heal themselves and to live life. So there does seem to be some quality where nature is providing things that we can use, and we've gotten away from that we're moving more toward a transhumanist artificial world, where what is natural is, is almost condemned. Whereas the artificial is the way we're being steered. And the more I've learned about all this stuff, the more I seem to be biased toward the natural, and yet at the same time, your example Jesse's a great one of your surgery, where we needed something a little bit artificial to help you in that situation and now look you're feeling better. I'm sure you're able to do your podcast and your life better and probably stay in better shape because your hips feeling better. So you took that bit of artificial in this extreme emergency situation to help. So again, it's like the exception versus the rule, where now it's like the exception to be all alternative and look at the land I mean that's, that's a very contrarian thing compared to the mainstream allopathic model. Whereas maybe that should be the majority of what we do and then also on the side develop these other technologies. So you mentioned the transhumanist type of synthetic type of model we actually had someone, I know is last week or the week before he's part of the transhumanist party and he's trying to make people not be afraid of artificial intelligence and all this kind of stuff so it was interesting to talk with that because I've been on the other side of that fence for a very, very, very long time but, you know, why do you think that the world is adopting things more synthetic they're going away from natural. It seems like natural is our lifeline and it's like we're being pulled away from natural into synthetic copies into these cyborgs into these machines into not needing natural fruits and vegetables. It's almost like they're trying to change the whole dynamic of what a human being is. And do you think that's even sustainable to, you know, if we all become robots and like bees go away, trees go away that, you know, they ever, this comes like the Terminator at the beginning of the very first movie, a wasteland, where there's a resistance fighting against these like cyborgs do you think that that's kind of the way it looks like you know they want things to be headed. Probably in an extreme case like that kind of dystopia could happen and maybe there are some who want it to happen and yet at the same time there are benefits to the technologies I mean what we're seeing now with chat GPT. There are many problems with it and on my Instagram I've shown snippets where they talk about how basically they have they'll lie or they'll make mistakes that can brainwash people. So they admit to that at the same time think about how much information we have at our fingertips because of that technology. If you want to know something you can get so much instantaneously whereas you could have wasted hours of your day doing that and now you can have it at your fingertips and do something that's more productive. So again I always think there's a balance to this stuff. And the problem is we're moving toward this dystopian era because the technology is becoming so advanced, where it could ultimately take over and we could be moving towards synthetic everything, even synthetic like pregnancy and synthetic womb synthetic reproduction, which was I believe it was contemplated in a brave new world all this Huxley so that sort of extreme dystopia is possible. And ultimately it comes back to what we talked about before is our consciousness is how do we decide with our consciousness to use these technologies. It can be used for darker light just like magic. There's a black magic and then there's perhaps the more benevolent trying to give people love and and use reality in that way versus the darker stuff. So I seek technology in that way too. I think that this place was created or has become like a sleep plantation. I think about this all the time. I don't know because I've used suffering and even our own ignorance collectively as both something that can be painful but also evolutionary. I was a competitive athlete growing up I play tennis in college for example, and when I would train really hard it would be painful to my body physically painful, but I would get better as a result of it. And maybe I would win more matches because I trained harder so what do we say is it bad that I suffer. Well it's good that I want more tennis matches. Where do you balance that and we could say the same thing with this life that we're in where there's suffering everywhere and ignorance that leads us down past where we end up suffering and experience pain but we always seem to learn from that in some way. So part of me wants to say look it's masochistic to believe that suffering is so fundamental to this realm without it being controlled by something that's feeding off of our dark energy that wants us to suffer. And at the same time I do see practical value in that the growth that comes from pain that might not occur otherwise. So I don't know where I fall on that. I know for example the Gnostic texts the nagamadi scriptures they sort of allude to this world where there was a one being that was seemingly benevolent and that being spawned other beings. And then there was a rogue being the demiurge that created our world that seeks to keep us in the state of ignorance where our divinity is being hidden from us or we're being diverted from it because we're so distracted with other things. That that sort of cosmology let's just say let's take that as a hypothesis. It has the dark enslavement within something ultimately benevolent too. So even that dark model has a benevolence to it at the highest level which leads me to believe that even if we are quote unquote enslaved in some way. At some some level of reality it is evolutionary that's leading us to discern better. I think that you know in order to have good you have to have evil. We get into questions about definitions here. How do we define good and evil. But my initial instinct to your question Jesse is that there's something that probably transcends all of that. That transcends the do the duality of this and that that's just pure oneness that everyone talks about when they have an NDE or a psychedelic account or a meditation experience. It's something that's transcended that's beyond the good and evil and yet the good and the evil seem to be poles. Opposites that exist within the oneness it's like the ultimate paradox that I keep bumping into. Where I want to say well there is no good and evil but yeah there is and if you ignore that there. If you ignore the fact that exists then you're run into problems but if you get too stuck into the good and evil dichotomy then you ignore the fact that there is no good and evil. Holding these contradictions that's where I land that that you if you end up in the duality at all of either good or evil then you end up with with both. But that exists within something that has neither. Now what's your thoughts when you hear this I think that there is no yin and yang there's only yin they only created yang to justify the shitty behavior and the shitty things that has been done in this world. I don't know I don't know well it would have it were created within reality that it must have been at least something that was a potential within the reality meaning it existed within it. So if it was it was created it was not created from outside the totality meaning it must have been there. In some way already. Unless you have the oneness and anything that wants to go against or outside of that oneness wasn't not natural but some decided not to be a part of that you know that one consciousness that one they wanted to separate from it. And then that's maybe where that darkness came was wanting to be away from the light. My question would be and I don't know the answer is could that thing have existed outside of the oneness is that possible. I don't know. It's great talking to you you definitely you're definitely very well educated and someone said earlier where it was a good comment. Brian from our YouTube says mark is very balanced and has a good working knowledge of on many topics. I appreciate your guess choices so yeah you you're you're definitely you know well versed. What keeps you motivated. I go through peaks and valleys with motivation actually. Where sometimes I don't feel super motivated and then something will grab me and I can't always predict what that is. But there's probably a spark that we all have within us that that kicks me in the behind sometimes and that gets me on a path. So I don't I don't know if motivation is intrinsic in that it comes from the individual because I think we're part of something transcendent. And it's that transcendent that I think motivation is derived from that ultimately. What is religion to you. I view religions as attempts to explain reality and different religions explain it in different ways. The problem becomes when the institutions themselves distort the teaching or the purity of the teaching. So religion. Let's say religion versus where I used to come from. I'll call it scientific materialism, which is agnosticism atheism religion typically has a connotation of some transcendence and some meaning built into the fabric of reality itself, which in my view is in advancement versus where I used to be, which was in the materialistic view and which I think is scientifically and philosophically problematic. And then so once we get into the realm of the transcendent, we end up with a spectrum of belief systems and some are formal religions where you can see exactly what the beliefs are. And others are more generally spiritual that don't subscribe to any one religion, but might have elements of those. So it's just a spectrum of beliefs in this in the quote unquote spiritual and the various religions have different takes on it. Now, when it comes to atheism, I say there isn't really, you know, any true atheist because in order to say you're atheist, you have to conceptualize what God is and choose to not be subscribing to that theory. And so in order to conceptualize it, you have to at least manifest that there is something a part of it and then you actively choose not to be a part of what everybody else believes, but in that process of trying to comprehend this creation. You know, you truly have now said that there is a creation that I choose not to be aligned with it to kind of make it so you can't truly be an atheist. I think an atheist would be, I have no idea, you know, instead of saying, hey, I don't believe in God, you know, does that make sense. Hmm. Yeah, I hadn't thought of it that way. Because, so you're saying in denying the existence of God, you're invoking these existence of God in the equation in the conversation, which is it makes a paradoxical, which would then lead us to agnosticism, which is like acknowledging. I'm not really sure I don't really care but I'm not going to latch on to a spiritual belief system. And perhaps that's a more, I don't know, intellectually consistent position. That's the way I view it as I say, you know, I just, but that's my own, you know, personal interpretation on that in order to deny the existence you have to comprehend the existence. And so, you know, and then you, if you've comprehended the existence of it, you know that it potentially is a possibility to being real. Hmm. Well, let me apply it to viruses because I hadn't thought about this way before. So if we say, someone who says I don't believe viruses exist and cause disease, are they invoking a virus by saying that? Our manifestation abilities we're creating in God's image, we can potentially create sickness and viruses ourselves. So was it actually there or did we manifest it into existence by believing in his existence? And hence, become sick like we talked about earlier, the mind virus, did it actually make people sick opposed to actually some sneeze, you know, that that got transferred or some pangolin. And in some wet market, you know, that created all of this for us. Hmm. Well, it's an interesting concept. I know many people talk about the agrigor notion where something is brought into existence by collective belief in the thing. I mean, certainly that is possible conceptually to me. If consciousness is this powerful fundamental force, then in theory, you could manifest things with your consciousness. And that's been talked about in all the great traditions where certain people are able to make things actually happen physically. So the question then becomes one of mechanics. How does all that work? Because we all have our own individual consciousnesses that seem to be impacting the world. And how does one person's consciousness play off another? What's the balance of that? I don't know. We have another good comment I wanted to mention. So Pamela, we've got right now, we've got 44 people watching on our Twitter. And if you see the little x by where the picture's supposed to be, that means it's a Twitter. You'll see a blue app for Facebook. You'll see a little red for YouTube and there won't be anything for rumble. I don't have one, but she says information about isolation of a virus is the most clear and concise explanation I've ever heard. So that's a big compliment about explaining that or the conversation that we had coming from someone who's actually took something from what we said. Thank you, Pamela. Appreciate it. Now, what else? Is there anything that maybe we haven't talked about? Oh, yeah. I wanted to ask you about, you know, upside down. So it seems to be your theme or your theory. I think that that's what your books the upside down living the upside down to liberty. It seems like we're living in an inversion and a perversion. It seems like things reality is not the way it's supposed to be. It doesn't seem there's things to seem to be very, very backwards and upside down. So, where do you align with that and why did you choose to, you know, go with that theme that everything is upside down? Well, I need to get the credit here to my late publisher Bill Gladstone of Waterside Productions. When I came to him in 2017 with a full manuscript, he said the title needs to be an end upside down thinking mark. I said, okay, let's do it. And I didn't know at the time that I was going to write anymore, but he, Bill had been in the industry. So he probably saw, he was also very intuitive, saw that upside down was where our world is. And when the new inspirations came in there after I just kept that framework and said, Bill, here's the next one and upside down living. And then I've just continued with it because it's gone on, but really Bill Gladstone is the reason for that. Awesome. And do you think that things are very inverted? Do you think that things are upside down? Is that something that, you know, you kind of align with? I think the more I look, the more I realize everything is inverted. And it makes me wonder about the great question you asked, what is this place where we live in a world where everything's inverted? Why is it that way? How are we born into that system? Why is it that way? Is it for us to evolve? Is there something darker? Is it something in the middle? So I'm at the point now where I don't know if I believe anything really. I'm asking myself, if I think I believe something to be true, or if I'm told it's true, I ask why. Where does that believe come from? And I want to know the root of it. Where do you think things went wrong or took a left turn? Where do you think things may have started to become inverted, or do you think that it's always maybe been like that? Another very deep question that I think about. It ultimately relates to human origins, because we'd have to know our starting point to know how we got if something went and if it was inverted or if it was always this way. And I don't feel I know enough about human history to answer that. Speaking of knowing about human history, you know, it seems like it's his story. And they teach in their Freemason indoctrination camps, they call schools that the victor rewrites history burns all the books and rewrites history. And they've taught that these empires, there's been many over the last two, three, four, five thousand years that have burned the books and rewritten history. So what is his story is what we think as history, is there a good chance that maybe none of it or all of it isn't true. And how far back can we say like 1900, could we say maybe where things maybe we kind of know, you know, or do you think even stuff like the Civil War in the 1800s. Some people say, well, where did they hide all the bodies if that many people, where's all the graves. Like, you know, some people think that maybe that didn't even happen in question so much about reality because they are lying to us visibly that we're proving. So what else is a lie, especially when it comes to history. I don't know. I think we have to ask questions, and we see what happens in the media today where an event will go on, and the media will spin into certain direction and that becomes the narrative. We see history being created in front of our own eyes now. So we can only imagine what's been going on throughout our time on earth. And I do think it means that everything should be questioned even in conventional studies of history they say that that the victors are the ones who write history, always. So it becomes then just a matter of belief I'm I'm believing it because someone wrote it in a book. Ultimately I write this in my book and into upside down contact. And I look at research as a Venn diagram approach, where you have these circles that overlap. And I like to find the things where there's a lot of overlap between independent sources independent circles. Whereas if it's just one circle that says it, I don't know, I can't have I need more validation, but if it's a lot of them. And they're saying a bunch of different stuff but then they converge on one thing then maybe that's more credible. And it goes with history to whether it's a combination of primary source documents from different places archaeological findings and so forth. That's the way we're going to get to it. But maybe some of the stuff Jesse we're never going to know with certainty. When do you think fiction started in reality and how many fictional stories from the past people are now taking as potentially as real in history when it may just have been someone's conceptualization some fictional creation. But because it was written 500 years ago that must have been how reality was and do you think that that may be happening where people are looking at some fictional story and then, you know, believing it actually factually happened. That's a great question. I don't know, probably it goes on and the reverse might go on to where we think something is fictional or mythological, and it was actually real but our science is so far behind that we think it's only possible as fiction. We have to deal with both ends of the spectrum. Very good point. Where can people find you. We've got your links posted into the comments I've been putting it is also in the bio. I'm going to put it up on the screen right now. What can they find on your website, you know, all your books on Amazon, can they buy it somewhere else not everybody wants to support Amazon and or likes Amazon I've never actually bought anything from there. You know, I just kind of that Walmart I choose not to buy things on Walmart, you know, but where can people find you and where can people buy your books. Well, first Jesse I want to thank you for having me on the show again great talking to you and thank you for all the work you do, getting all this good information out there. If your audience is interested in learning more, my website is the place to start mark gober.com M R K G O B E R dot com. My books are all on Amazon in hard copy Kindle and audible, but some of them you probably can get at other sources so I think an end to upside down thinking. They're all around their other bookstores where you can get it I believe an end to upside down living as well, and also all the audio books. I believe you can get them on Barnes and Noble, not just on Amazon, but Amazon is a place where you can find everything. Okay, hopefully we can get a signed copy of your book that's one thing that we're trying to do from all of the authors that we do have anybody that has books we're trying to figure out if we can somehow add. That's one of things our collection is going to be trying to get a signed copy of every single person who we've brought in on the missing link and there's a lot of people that have written books so that's a big task in itself trying to make this happen. Well, please send me your mailing address. And I'll get it to you. Okay, that would be awesome any final thoughts that you wanted to leave us with any words of inspiration, any, you know, thing that you know you could just kind of leave our audience with here today. Yeah, what's coming to mind is the problem of jumping to a causal explanation for observations, where we see something in the world and we jump to a conclusion about why it occurred. One example, a bunch of people get sick after going to a party. So they were in the same place at the same time, they all got similar symptoms and they say, Hey Jesse, I caught a bug. Well, that's one hypothesis, but what if there was a similar toxin in the air that you're all poisoned with the same thing or a similar emotional trauma. You all experience a certain similar conflict. The point is we could come up with a million different explanations for why things happen. This doesn't just happen in medicine it happens in basically every area of science, even in politics if you start looking at articles, you say the article jumps to a conclusion about what happened. And you say wait a second is that the only reason it could have happened or is there another explanation. The problem with the jumping to causation issue is that we then build a model around the causation that we thought was true like viruses. We said we caught a bug it was a contagious virus. That means all the new observations that we see instead of having an open mind about why they occur, we force them into the model that we created initially. And that right there explains so many of our problems all over the world because we've jumped to causation we say this is caused by this. When another possibility existed, then we built a model around it and then all the new observations we don't understand them because we have a false model. So I would just say all of us I'm trying to do this for myself too, is when I say well this happened because of this, wait do I know that was the reason. What other possibilities are there, how can I eliminate those possibilities. I would say that's just an important exercise for all of us to help us break through the mind control. And the final thing I'll say is I do have a seventh book coming out soon. I haven't talked about it publicly yet in terms of the top subject matter, but just be on the lookout for it over the next few months. Awesome well thank you so much for all you're doing to plant the seeds and you know just being a good, you know steward of information and just trying to give people things that are away from the all solutionary matrix that you know they want people programmed in. And we all have no people, family, friends that are still got their head up their own ass and you know wondering why they can't breathe wondering why they're still getting wondering why they're still getting sick that you know we use all the different tools from all the different creators that you know are out there trying to make a difference in this world because truly knowledge is power and the more knowledge we have all have collectively the less power they do have over us. Well said. Okay awesome well thanks again may the source be with you and protection around you during this pivotal time in history. Tomorrow we've got Joel Lombardi coming back for a second time as well. He's more of a financial advisor so he's going to be talking about you know a different you know insurance and finances and all that kind of things again we just try to bring everybody's interpretation of what's going on away from the lame stream. You know the mainstream the whole programming and then just let you decide what you want to research more and what you align with we don't ever want to tell anybody what to think we just want to give you so many different things to think about and you can figure out who you are, what you align with just to become the best possible ungovernable you that you could possibly happen so thanks again. Knowledge is power yeah wouldn't so we just keep on you know creating more knowledge wherever we have so thanks again mark. Thank you Jesse, or one love one heart one life namaste everyone and if they ever ask you to put on a breathing inhibitor again mark you know what to say. No mask a. Okay thanks Mark I will see you next time we see you back here on the missing link by everyone.
