[MUSIC] >> And this is why we felt short of expectations. The bullpen has been a challenge for us all season long, significant injuries to the three guys we'd expected to anchor the back end. And then the backfield just wasn't there. So the bullpen's been achilles for us all year. And then there were a number of guys in the lineup. We projected to have carrying levels of performance that didn't happen. I think the greater focus for us is what can we learn from that? What role do we play in that, how we can construct a team that's better next year? So but there, yeah, there's no doubt, it's bitterly disappointing. And in the nine seasons I've been through, this is the biggest disconnect from expectations. It doesn't mean they haven't had difficult endings to seasons. That doesn't mean we haven't had seasons where we knew we were gonna have a challenge competing, but this has been by far the biggest disconnect from our expectations and the biggest disappointment. So we need to learn, we need to get better from it. I think the trade deadline was the start of that, making sure we get better from challenges, adversity, and disappointment. But that has to happen in the way we put the team together for next year, for sure. >> That is President of the Toronto Blue Jays, Mark Shapiro. Meeting with the media yesterday, I'm meeting with you this morning. I like to think of it as my little morning coffee date with all of you. How are we doing, fam, morning show, gunning, Marquesi, along with you here? Mark Shapiro speaks, we all listen. It's not Ross Atkins speak, there was more than that in there. But generally speaking, a lot of these things are couched in multiple ways. When you're up there, no big kind of revelation from the Shapiro comments, for me personally, but many, many things that we can read probably far too much into beauty, if one of those guys with one of those jobs talks, Marquesi, how are you doing this morning, bud? >> I'm good, listening to that over again. And it's such a disconnect from our expectations. I don't know if sometimes people think that the fans or the media are stupid, or if they just say things just to say things, which is generally the case, they're just saying things to say things. But after the way the last two seasons have gone, where the margins have literally been razor thin. What exactly were your expectations? Were your expectations to have a perfectly healthy rotation? And have those guys, for some of them, career years? >> Mm-hm. >> Was the expectation for the bullpen to be lights out and carry your below average offense throughout an entire season? If that's what your expectations were, then you shouldn't have had those expectations that you would be a playoff team. So that's the part that is so frustrating is that they ran it back and everybody knew that it wasn't gonna work, apparently except the front office. >> Yeah, I think there is obviously all things. There was a rosier outlook for the season that was a possibility, right? You can see a world where the staff isn't perfectly healthy, but it's just better. I mean, we've seen better versions of Kevin Gossman, Chris Bass. It was a less consistent blue jade this year than last. And even Jose Barrios has taken a dip. I think there's a world where you could have expected better. I don't know how competitive even the better of that is. I thought actually Shy had a great kind of rundown the way he did it here. Just kind of the key things. And he touches on the job security of Ross Atkins here. And there's one quote that jumping out to me. Now he started this out with an unequivocal to anything commenting on job status during the season throughout my career. When I've been asked about those things, it's not something I've done or will ever do. That being said, contextually, I'm a huge believer in stability and continuity and that those are competitive advantages. If you are somebody that thinks there is a change coming at the front office this season, I think you should read that comment. And I think you should think about it very carefully. I didn't expect Shapiro to throw Atkins under the bus if he was going to do that. He might as well have just fired him before the press started. If that's what he really wanted to do there. But I read that comment from Shapiro and I just see that it is clearly a fan base that is clamoring for change. And you got a lot of it at the deadline in terms of the direction that this team is going to take. But I also think there's a big time uncertainty as to does that direction of change continue this off season or is it a run it back with a little sprinkle of something else on top. And I just think you hear those comments from Shapiro. And I don't think it's a guarantee that Atkins is the GM by any means. But I also think if you ask me, did that tip you one way or another? I think it tips me more to the Atkins is going to be back than not. >> Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with that. I also could look at it that Mark is talking about himself in that context. Because I think there's a few ways that this can go. I think that Ross Atkins much to the chagrin of many returning is a possibility. I think there is a possibility that Boojays ownership goes to Mark Shapiro and says one or both. And I think that there is a possibility that both of them are not back. I do believe that Mark Shapiro will be back. I don't think they just brought him in here, do this, I mean, he was here obviously before the run. He got hired in 2015, but in the end of this month will mark nine years. Which feels like, does it feel that long for you? >> It's hard. It feels that long since AA has been gone, but it doesn't feel like that's how long this run has been if that makes any sense. >> I totally agree with you. I'm on the same page. So somebody told me, and just in conversation, we were just chatting about the Boojays in the front office. And if these guys are going to be back. And they said, I wonder if ownership goes to Mark Shapiro and says, you're now the GM. >> Mm-hm. Yeah. >> We're paying you. And we just gave Ross Atkins an extension not that long ago. And we're paying him. So we're not going to pay another GM. This is your best to fix. I do wonder if that's on the table as well. Yeah, you can see that there's obviously capable people within the org that could not necessarily step into a GM role if that's the way it takes shape, but you could have someone step in to kind of the more day-to-day aspect of that role. Of course, like James Click is the name that kind of first comes to mind. So we get the comments from Shapiro yesterday. Obviously, the season is going the way it's gone for the Boojays, and this will shock everyone out there. That could be thinking about the Leafs. And do dare I say, dare I say, we take them for granted, okay? Now the Raptors, they went about a totally different way. They had their moment to strike. They struck. It was an amazing, it was an amazing year. And then they tried to cling to glory for as long as they could, and maybe it was too long. It almost certainly was too long, but I can understand that. It's a different way. The Blue Jays have been much more of the mold of, okay, we've got something building here. Let's continue to take baby steps year over year over year. And the consistency just hasn't been there. I mean, you know, I, again, to like draw the parallel to the Leafs, we all sit here every single year and we're disappointed about the Leafs and their first round exit or that one miracle year where they made it to the second round of playoffs. We all sit here and talk about that every year, but it is also a mortal lock of locks for every single one of those seasons. Now I know people will quibble with me about the year that ended with the bubble and everything of where they're going to be in. I was never worried. But okay, I suppose there's one year where maybe it would have been a question, but the floor that the Leafs have been able to set has just been so much higher than any of these other teams. Again, yeah. Consistent floor. Yeah. Like, look at the Raptors, right? Again, like the ceiling, they have the highest ceiling. They're the only ones that got the point to a banner in this era of Toronto sports, but look at the floor. I don't know, fourth overall pick in the draft in Scotty Barnes and a season that we just had where we spent the entirety of it questioning the direction and where things are going. The Blue Jays, the ceiling's been, okay, you know, not like 20 foot ceilings or anything, but you've gotten to the playoffs, you've had your chances, they've yet to win a game. Last year they scored one run in their playoff series, okay? And again, no, it's not. It's not. And then you look at the Leafs and now again, maybe because of the players that they have, we feel they should do more. I certainly feel that way, but there is a floor, an understanding that you're just going to be a playoff team and you're not going to be scratching and clawing to get in. It's not a group that, well, they'll ultimately get there, but it's going to be a long arduous path. Even the long arduous seasons have been arduous to finish very comfortably third place in the Atlantic Division. So I just, I can't help but think about what we've seen from the other two teams that we, you know, think about that way in this market and the wraps and the Jays. And again, they've kind of gone about it very different ways, but it does make me think, and again, like this is not me telling people not to be frustrated by everything that's happening in Leafland. Of course, you should be. Of course, they should have more to show for it than one series win, but I do think we kind of take the floor for granted. We do. And that's because it's, it, when you have success, it just becomes the expectation, right? And with expectation, it does get, when the expectation is that you're going to have a hundred points and make the playoffs and like that to me is like, it's a weird, it's a weird kind of position that you put yourself in where you, you aren't appreciated for just being very good all the time and not having too much like, I, I've always wondered what this like the Leafs would look like had they had a tougher path to the playoffs and maybe played more meaningful games from January on, which they really haven't done in what? Five years? Even the years we think it's going to happen, some set of circumstances, you know, lines up to make that not be the case. Like we were looking at them, I think it was the season, Anderson was hurt and they had to go out and make their Jack Campbell trade and you're going, steam doesn't have a goalie. They're going to have to play. And then Jack Campbell showed up for just long enough to do that and then get the bag and get out of here. But even that year, they were, there was some circumstance, the change partway through the season to make it. So it wasn't the case. And they were, and they were pretty home and cooled by the beginning of March, late February. Like so, so we're, we're at a point now where the expectation is that they're just going to get in. And then, I mean, the playoff expectations are an entirely different thing. But I do agree with you in that we have kind of just become used to the Maple Leafs having really good regular seasons. And the other organizations have been very much up and down. The Raptors for a long time were as consistent as the Toronto Maple Leafs. But that hasn't been the case since 2020. >> Yeah, since Kyle Lowry stopped being Kyle Lowry, it ceased to be the case. And so, I think we're at a point now where yes, we do need to appreciate what the Maple Leafs have done in the regular season. And just saying like, hey, we're getting playoff hockey every year, it's pretty much a guarantee. Now, part of that is with what the other teams have or haven't done around them. Like if you look at the, like the Ottawa Senators should have already arrived. >> Yeah. >> And they, and they stink. The Detroit Red Wings should have already arrived. They stink. So there's teams behind them, especially in their division, that have not done enough and it has made it at least a little bit easier on the Toronto Maple Leafs. But there's also something to be said about just being that consistent with a group that everybody thinks can't win. >> The fact that they play in the division, and to your point, like it's a very weird thing to talk about. The Atlantic is in my opinion, the best division in hockey when two or three of the teams seem to be flailing it when Mills at any given time in the bottom half, they also have, again, the team with, I won't say the highest, but the Leafs have at least over this, I don't know, half decade structure, whatever you want to put it. They have shown to have the fifth, sixth, seventh kind of highest floor in the NHL in that, in that kind of time period of what you can expect over 82, you throw Boston into the mix. And then, oh, just three of the last six cup winners in the Bolts and the Cats. It's such a weird division there, where you kind of are constantly scrapping with the upper upper echelon, and then you're kind of constantly keeping your thumb down. This isn't also just a leaf thing though, like I think back to the, and of course, we all look at this a little differently because the title came right after it. But I don't think we appreciated the Durozen Lowry Raptors enough. And like, of course, we all appreciate the Kauai and Lowry Raptors. Of course, yeah, like they won a title, of course, we're going to appreciate that. And part of it is that it was the unbeatable LeBron that was waiting for them at the end. I do wonder how that'd feel different if it was even, you know, a baby, honest or something who was up there and wasn't quite the, like, you know, out worst, second greatest player of all time, hang out at the top of the conference. But even that made me think about is that we never gave those teams enough credit. You know, from, from the Leafs perspective on this as well, I also just look at it from an individual player base, right? Like there are tons of guys you like on all these other teams that are here right now. Like Scotty Barnes, hey, maybe one day he could be the face of it. Well, I mean, he's the face of this franchise right now, but will he be able to earn it? Will he be able to stamp that home? Is this guy going to be a multi-time All-Star? Is he going to be Kyle Lowry? Is he going to be Kyle Lowry? Well, if I'm going to do a cross sport comparison, I don't know, is he going to be Mitch Barnard? Like that seems like a lot to ask of a guy who is widely considered to be among the best three or four players at his position in the sport. And the Leafs have a guy better than that. We talk about Vladi's holy, almost MVP season, I've watched a guy have one in this market. And then another one that could have been the almost MVP season and what we just saw from Matthews this past year. So it's such a, it's such a conflicting kind of thought for me because on one hand I do want to sit here and appreciate that every single year that group is going to give you a chance. And what's the chance to do? Get kicked in the teeth by the time May rolls around. I know how this works. But you're telling me there's a chance. You're telling me there's a chance. But it's also, I understand the guy driving around in his car right now listening to this punching the steering wheel going, how dare you give these guys credit for losing in the first round every single year. But I watched this Jay's team. They would kill to be locked. Now part of it is playoffs are a little different, but I don't know, baseball keeps adding playoff teams. It certainly got easier than it was even a decade ago. So that's the thing I kind of keep coming back to is it's just the, God, it's like the duality of loving sports. It really is. And my thing too is everybody said, well, you're getting the opportunity to get your teeth kicked in in the first round. But find me this series where they have just been completely outclassed in the first round. Yeah. The Florida series that everyone points to. And that was the second round. But the point being is that they've been there and they've gotten to that point. Getting over the hump has obviously been an issue. But I just, Gunner, it's the same thing that we say all the time, winning cures all. And the team would be looked in a different light if they had been kind of inching around the playoffs and the scrappy group that they just can barely get in. But hey, they got in and they got to the second round and hey, things are looking different. It's just that they've been so, if they were just an above average team that's kind of sniffing around the playoffs, we would have more of an appreciation for being that scrappy team because they're just one or two pieces away. It's a totally different narrative because it's almost as if the chance that they do have is negated by the fact that everybody just believes that they're not going to win regardless of regular season success. >> This is a weird way to put it, but would we feel differently about it, if not if there was no cap, but just if the sport was kind of structured in a different way. Because obviously if there was no cap, the Leafs wouldn't look this way quite frankly, right? Like Zach Hyman would still be on the team. There'd be back-doring of like, hey, Connor, don't you dare. We got 20, 20 times, whatever you want, waiting for you right here in Toronto. >> Here's a half a billion dollars. >> Right. So I'm not saying it that way, but I just look at the nature of the sport of, you know, we talk about Vlad is one of the highest paid players on the team, but no one, like when he's going through it, and you know, bad year to pick this example, he hasn't really been going through it since the early parts of the season, no one sits there and looks at him as a 19 million dollar player, right? I think that is such a thing is that the nature of the sport that we just constantly are talking about the contracts and the top heavy nature of the team, that's what leads to the negativity as well, is that any time one of those guys, and again, like it's the way the sport's built, it's the way we have to talk about it. But any time one of those guys, and Tavares, again, I constantly remove him from this because I think he's just a different animal now, but when you have Matthews or Marner or Newlander, and they're not playing, and if they're not playing at the, you know, upper, upper echelon level, they're capable of, it's immediately becomes a referendum on how everything is built. When Beshette's going through it for two weeks, or, you know, the entirety of the season with injuries and everything, we say, well, you know, one of those weeks, one of those months, I think he's going to get it back, and I think that's the other thing that leads to so much of the feeling of frustration around that group versus, and obviously there's frustration in Bluejay's land right now, after his land as well, but it just feels like it comes across in such a different tenor, because of the cap and the way we talk about the sport. Like the budget matters in baseball too, which just matters in the same way. It just matters a little bit less, because any luxury tax money, you're like, well, it's not my money, so I don't care. But it's also, it's also goes with the expectations, like, I think a lot of Bluejay's fans were down on this team coming into this year. I wasn't. I thought that they were probably like 85 to 87 wins, just because I thought the offense was going to be better. But if the expectations were higher, and Bob Beshette is going through it, then I think we're having a different conversation. But I think people have just seen what we've seen over the last four to five years, and they're like, well, it's fine. He's not going to stay here. He's going to get traded. I think that's part of it as well. But I've always hated this notion of, well, he makes this much, and we should, he should be a villain because he makes this much. I always point this out. If an employer comes to you and says, we're going to give you $8 million, and you say, you know what, nah, I'm only worth five. If you do that, you're an idiot, first of all. You should make your money wherever you can. The Maple Leafs didn't have to pay these guys. >> At least move me in. I'll take the agent fee. >> Yeah, honestly. It's worth. >> Yeah, just take it, and then I'll take the three a million extra, no problem. But it's always bothered me because the Maple Leafs made the decision to sign these guys. So the alternative is, you don't have them. And then you can't complain about them when they're not having a great stretch, but you also don't have them when they are going great. >> Yeah, the man, the cap just comes up all of these conversations about the guy. You're going to hear this a lot this year, and part of the reason we didn't hear it last year is there were just not points in the season when he struggled quite frankly, who was just transcending from more or less puck drop until they stopped playing hockey. But if Matthews has his and all goalscores do, his like six games without a goal, you will hear that's highest played player in the NHL. You'll hear that. >> Because nobody else in the history of hockey, not even Wayne Gretzky ever struggled in score and sixth straight game. >> Right, exactly. And we're going to see this all the time. I think the other thing that's going to be interesting is part of it is, and again, Matthews plays to such a level that I don't really think we do have these conversations. But Mitch Marner is going to sign a contract, be it at the end of this season, or heaven forbid an extension at any point in time, that I think that we're in this place right now where we're all waiting for McDavid to sign the deal, and that's the true kind of league cap, because there's been all these guys that are not on McDavid's level. But you could make the argument or in the neighborhood, right? Like, hey, Drycidal, like he is not Connor McDavid, but I don't know if I don't have a number one center, I might pay him like he's Connor McDavid, right? >> On drycidal, his next deal is going to, he's going to be the highest played player in the world. >> Right, Austin Matthews, same exact thing. Nathan McKinnon's in that club, you know, if Jack Hughes was coming up in three years, maybe we'd feel that way, but he's locked into one of those eight times, eight deals. >> What a deal. >> What a deal. Shelton Keefe is going to win like a Jack Adams this year and multiple cups in this time in Jersey. >> Yeah. >> It's going to suck. Not that I feel, not that I wouldn't want that for Keefe, just, you know, here. But I think the thing that's going to change the tenor of the conversation around this is that there's been no true cap on the league, because McDavid hasn't signed his deal yet. Once he signs his extension, be it at the end of this season, or if he goes, plays it through to open market, I don't think that's going to necessarily happen. I do wonder how we have these conversations about guys, because I think, you know, if McDavid was set at 14, two or 15 or whatever the number is, certainly makes the conversation with Mitch Marner or Leon Dreyseidel or any of these guys that need deals so much easier. And I think it'll be interesting to see if the conversation around like the salary cap and, quite frankly, the just endless bitching about it from every butt involved. Me who hates it, the people who hate the guys who make too much money, I do wonder if that gives us a like two year reprieve on all of this stuff. The only, the only problem is, and the only pushback that I will have is that it does feel like just in sports, it's not about who's the best, it's when you come up for your deal. And that's- >> Well, I think the NFL is skewing you a little bit. >> The NFL is- >> Because they're the worst, it's like any quarterback who gets a deal, it's like, sorry, I've taken a hundred snaps, make me the highest paid guy in history of the league. >> Baseball hasn't, because baseball owners just won't pay, guys. They pay the high paid guys, but then there's that, there's a big discrepancy from the high paid guys to the mid-range guys. >> The lack of middle class for sure. >> 100%. So, but in the NBA, it's about who comes up next, like Jason Tatum's not the best player in the league. But Jason Tatum's making a boatload of money. So I do think that, yes, salary cap is part of that conversation, but it really does feel like just in sports in general, who've just gotten to. It's less so in hockey because a guy who is the equivalent of Trevor Lawrence. >> Sure. >> So let's say the equivalent of Trevor Lawrence is maybe it's Jack Hughes. >> Sure, yeah, it's actually funny, that's where I was kind of going. It feels slightly disrespectful to Jack Hughes, just to be perfectly honest, yeah. >> It does, it does. But- >> We'll stick with him as the comp, yeah. >> In terms of first overall- >> No, no, no, you know what I'm saying. Limited playoff success. >> Is he Laffernier, I don't know, no, not quite, right? >> Laffernier does kind of feel- >> Who is Trevor Lawrence at the NHL? >> Daniel Jones right now. >> God, if this ain't the summer topic for you and I. >> Yeah, so I think that, I don't think that Jack Hughes would, if he were up now, I don't think that he would be the highest paid player on the league. >> Agreed. >> But whereas in the NFL, you do get that. So I think that's where it kind of, it does balance a little bit. >> I think the other thing is just that it's the only one that has a hard cap, right? Like the NFL, you maybe understand it more than I, it's like, man, it's fugazi, it's a waltz. >> It does not exist. >> That's what it is. >> I always say the salary cap in the NFL is a figment of our imagination. >> Right, and in major league baseball, there's a CBT, but really, it doesn't exist. In the NBA, it's a soft cap, and there's all these rules that allow you to- >> Which nobody understands. >> Right, just like, I don't know, LeBron gets to play with who he wants, is my understanding of the rules, and other than that, I don't really get it. I think that's the reason why we actually have these, and even hockey's hard cap is hard with the exception of LTR, which every team worth it's salt, and for using. But I think that's the reason also that we get so bogged down with the salaries in hockey is that in the NBA, it matters if you can't match a trade contract with somebody, but it doesn't matter if a guy makes 26 million or 30 million or 29 million, can you get them on the team? All right, great, then the math works. In the NHL, it does matter, like how many conversations have we had about filling the blank defenseman X who's playing on some second pair going, if he just made like 800 K less, you'd love him. >> Yeah. >> Why? Why do I have to have that conversation? >> I do hate that. >> You're in no other sport. >> It depreciates players. >> It really does. >> In baseball, we would never, you know what we talk about with relievers? Did they get anyone out? >> Yeah. >> You'd never sit here and be like, you know, Trevor Richards at 8-2, I don't know, maybe at 7-5 and feel better about him. The owner, I'm sure, has that conversation. When you're the accountant and you got to put it all together, yeah, maybe you'd rather have it, but it's just that's the thing is it's the only sport where we get so bogged down in these, like, remember when McDavid signed his first deal? He's gonna take 13 and then we all, well, not me, but I don't know who all you people were, who cyberbullied McDavid and to take 500 K less a year, but that happened because the 500 K matters. You know, an extra 500 K you can give to a van der Kain or in Connor Brown's bonus pool or whatever it is. And it's just, it is so infuriating that the problems are right there staring us in the face and there just seems to be, obviously, the players would love to nuke the cap and a heartbeat, but there's just no impetus from most ownership in the league to want to change it. >> So I'm curious to get your take on this, like, if Mitch Marner was at 9 million and William Kneelander was at 9 million and Austin Matthews is at 11 million. >> Sure. >> So there's what, an extra $4 million to play with something like that. Does that change the narrative on any of them? >> It doesn't, it doesn't now, like if they were just on those deals, but if Matthews on that last deal he just took came in at 11 or he's like, you know what, last number was good. Let's just keep it there. Four more years on to the thing, he would have been seen as a god, I think with Mitch Marner. And again, like the way it ended, the seeming nature of everyone in this fan base to want one piece of red meat has kind of complicated this. But my god, if Marner said, hmm, 10 million, let's do it, sounds great. He would be seen as somebody who finally took less. I think it would really change the perception in the moment. But I also think that we'd be sitting there and if he had, you know, five games of the point or something, we go, no, this bum, we're paying him 9 million bucks. Like it'll never stop being that way in the moments where players are kind of struggling, I think. What about you? >> I, I, I'm, it's so hard for me because in this city, they're just, they're, they're will always be the scapegoat and they'll find somebody like, I don't understand the hate for William Newlander. I really don't. >> I feel like it's kind of gone. >> Don't you? But there's always the people that say. >> The migraine thing, I think, like pulled those people out of the shadows a little bit, right? >> It did. The other, the other problem is, is that he's always going to be compared to what Zach Hyman does because they kept William Newlander over Zach Hyman. That was essentially the decision that was made. But I also look at it because everybody's like, well, Zach Hyman scored 50 plus goals this year. How we say is, is Zach Hyman scoring 50 plus goals on Austin Matthews wing? The answer is no. >> No. >> He's not, because he's not getting this, he's not getting the same looks. He's not going to have the, the same opportunities in the positions he does because, yeah, while Conor McDavid can be a shooter, Guy had a lot of assists this year last time I checked. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Yeah. It's kind of good. So he's a past first guy. >> Yeah. Two, it's just, it's so annoying because they're always, it feels like they're always going to be linked. >> I think it's funny because I'll be honest, like I don't, I don't think of it at all the two of them together. I think with Matt, with the job you're asking Hyman to do with Matthews is so different from the job. >> Totally to do with McDavid. And I'd argue I could make the argument now the Oilers sitting there with their loss in game seven of the Stanley Cup final maybe feel a little differently about this, but it's like the job that he could do for Matthews, more valuable, like nothing's more valuable than scoring goals, but that is a harder role to fill. Conor McDavid so long as he is upright in this league is going to be not turning guys into 50 goal players because I don't want to sit here and diminish what Zach Hyman does or his ability, his hockey smarts to play with the lead players. >> Totally. >> I think that's a big, big part of it. >> Yeah, that matters. >> But the job that you'd be asking Hyman to do or you did ask Hyman to do when he was on Matthews wing, it had nothing to do with tap ins in front of the net. It was all about go get me the puck and quite frankly give it to Mitch or Willie and then one of them will give it to me. That was just the way it worked. And I think that that's why the Hyman of it all, it's so hard to, and it was a mistake, flat out the fact that everybody got no moves, the fact that the no move is it seems like held it up, of course, but I think that's the thing is they were never looking at him as this could be an 80 point guy on Matthews line, they looked at him as a 60, 60 point guy. >> But it wasn't even, I don't even think when they thought about it, they thought about the points. >> It's not how many points he's worth, it's how many points is he worth, like how many extra possessions, maybe I actually think that's probably the way they would most have thought about it. Like how many extra possessions or extended cycles does he, Zach Hyman alone, get Austin Matthews or whatever skilled centerman you're going to put him with, whereas with McDavid is just a completely kind of different role. It is so frustrating that that's where we end up at, where we're sitting here talking about the Leafs going, we couldn't do it. They should have been able to do both, they'd develop the guy, they draft while they didn't draft him. They traded Greg McKeg for him, for God's sake, and they still were able to do this. And it's just those are the decisions. Teams should have to make hard decisions in sports, especially hard decisions to win, but I don't think it should constantly be jettisoning people, and that is what the cap has kind of led us to. >> Yeah, I totally agree with that. >> This has been today's edition of Brett Gutting hates the NHL's salary cap. I believe we're now on edition, sorry, Roger Lizwell, I've now done more of these shows than you were, I just complained about the cap endlessly. >> If you could take a guess, and I don't know the answer to this, but it wouldn't be funny to research, Zach Hyman's goals from the goal line total distance. >> Do they equal the length of the rink for this season? >> This season? >> I'm gonna say no. >> Well, it's just he had so many. >> I know. >> Are we counting playoffs? >> No. >> Just regular season. >> Just regular season then no. If we're counting playoffs and it's like the 70 goal man, then it's like, it's a little bit close. Sometimes a flood is 70, right? So yeah, I think you'd have a chance to be right. I don't know. >> Does it score very many outside the hash marks? >> No, he's not exactly like toe drag ripping it bar down from the top of the circle. It's not in his repertoire so much. There's a lot in his repertoire and, oh God, I miss you Zach, one day, we'll have someone who can muck around in the corners. >> Matthew, nice. >> No, that's the thing though. It's like even Matthew and I, you're like, nope, too good, I'm sorry, I don't want that for you. I want more. She like our big sexy power forward, which again is different than this role Zach Hyman did. It was such a kind of niche role and he will now fill the void of dads and hockey ranks for 20 years in this market of being like, you got to work like Hyman in the corners. Like, who's Hyman? >> Yeah. >> It's like, I played for the Oilers a long time ago. Why are you talking to me about this? It will forever be, it's like the ghost of hard work past basically Zach Hyman in leaf parts. It's a pointing day on the track for Canada, although not, not completely. The 100, the four by 100 V to relay team, both of them qualifying for the finals, men's and women's, although not the day Degrasse wanted in the 200 meters, talk about that a little more and some fun summer kicker topics. >> Good morning, show continues on sports now, 5 9 of the fan. I got my pies on and then I'm afraid to say anything about Jeff or our arm and neck because I don't want to offend anybody. >> I know Jeff is Maltese. >> I called him Italian yesterday. He really didn't like that. >> Yeah. >> That's exactly it. >> I'll just tell the story I was telling. This is from the Olympics, well, I'd say two years ago, because it was like two or three years ago. But whatever we're calling the 2020 games, I guess it's that. And there was a guitar guy and an Italian guy for the high jump final, and they kept going and they moved the bar up like a millimeter. They were tied. Neither one of them could do it. So they just agreed to share, go share these on the gold medal. And then here's all I needed to know about who the real Olympic champ was. The guy from Qatar is like, all right, he daps up the Italian guy and the Italian guy just goes full. He's like pulling out his hair and I'm like, okay, that guy's the loser, sorry. That actually should have been the test of like you're way too happy to get gold. You get gold. You get silver. But yeah, I was like telling this story and I'm like, sorry to do this to your pizana as a party. And he's like, fine. Get out of here. Where's your, what's your background? I was going to guess. I was going to guess that. But then I was like, I don't think we won. We had Vic and now now we have arm. Yeah, I was going to guess that. But then again, I don't want to offend anybody. All right. So now that we have safely talked about everyone's nationalities of the show without getting our self-fired, I think we can move early. It is early. It's only six thirty. That's right. A boss may yet listen to this and drag us into an office. But I think if we survive today, we're okay because like who wants to do who wants to work on a Friday? Right? No, no, we'll be here. But bosses. There's a joke. Yeah. I was going to say there's a joke to be made here, but you just made it. Yeah. No, it's fine. It's all jokes. All jokes. The best ones anyways are true and that we'll just leave that there. So Olympics wrapping up or at least starting to kind of come to a close. For me, the unofficial halfway point of the Olympics is always go, when we go from the swimming Olympics to the running Olympics, that's like, okay, I don't know if that's the official halfway point, but that's like much like the all-star game is never the official halfway point for any of these seasons. Like get out of here with that. That is the halfway point. As far as all of us are concerned, now that we're running, we're officially in the halfway point of the games. Of course, you know, plenty of stars. I think we, there's the beauty of the Olympics, right? As you'll always have people kind of come up out of nowhere. We have the hammer thrown, Kathburg, and there's been plenty of great kind of stories. But I think we're all primed for a sprinter, right? And we understand the grass and kind of struggled a little bit coming into this Olympic games or hope. And he'd be able to kind of have his moment ultimately, not now, as I said, he still has at least one more really important race to run in the four by 100 meter final, which men and women qualified for, which is awesome. The women set a national record to do it. But yeah, this is the, for me, the prime time of the games. Like I've said it before, I love the team sports, but the thing of the singular things I'm always looking for, the one off events are always track related. And yeah, we've had the 100 meter, we're going to have the 200 meter final. It's just, it is always funny, there's kind of a hard and fast flip from week one to week two of the games. Yeah, there really is. And we don't have that in the winter. Although maybe we do. I don't know. Do we go from skiing to skating? I'll have to keep my eye out next time, I don't know. I'm assuming that they do, but it's not, I don't know, it's not as drastic, but you talk about the speed. I mean, you've kind of hit the nail on the head. It was, it was disappointing to see digress, not qualify for his signature event because I know a lot of people like, oh, you know, the 100 meter, the 200 meter is where Andre digress really. Yeah, Donovan explained, Donovan Bailey explained to us yesterday, like why he's so much better at that. Just the nature of him. Yeah. So that's a shameless plug to go check out that interview from yesterday with Donovan Bailey. And do you know who else would want us to plug that Donovan Bailey? He got to say very nice things about himself in that interview. And I just had to sit there and go, Hey, you're probably right, man. Yeah, God, you can dunk a ball. I'm not, I'm not going to tell you you're wrong. But the other thing is to is this guy's 29 years old. Yeah. And I know that people like, well, he's, he's 29 that thought in sprinting, that's, that's kind of old. And the fact that he was battling an injury also doesn't help, like it was just the worst possible storm for the Canadian sprinters, sickness that went around, like it was just, it was the, you know, the worst case scenario for all of it. But there's still an opportunity here. The only thing is, is that you got to feel for Andre digress because he knows he's not 100%. Yeah. And he's probably running the anchor in the four by 100. Yeah. So I mean, it come, it may come down to him in this. I think what it's done when Andre digress is not qualifying for the finals in each of the 100 or 200 million or something that he has, yeah, he hadn't failed to do in previous Olympic experiences. I think it just has set the bar where it's like, okay, if they metal here, it's great, whereas I think a lot of people maybe didn't expect it, but they were very hopeful for it. I think that hope has really diminished now. Yeah, it's interesting too, because, you know, generally speaking, obviously sprinting is such an individual sport. This is the one time when it becomes a bit of a team sport. This is where you would look to say like, okay, Andre digress is, and I don't want to diminish what any of these other guys have done, but it's like Andre digress been the star of this team for a while now, you would love to see a world where they're able to pick him up. But the part of the problem with that narrative is like Aaron Brown's been doing this just as long as Andre digress is he's been in all these same Olympic games. Uh, as well, you'd love to see it. And there has just been a ton of disappointment, not, I don't, I don't be disappointment results wise, but just the way it's kind of happened. Like Brown got disqualified in the hundred on the false start there as well. You do wonder if he's going to kind of have anything extra in the tank. The other thing I was thinking about regarding the, the running events is so no liles. He obviously qualifies for the 200 meter final. It's always funny. We think of the hundred as the gold standard for these guys and it is the one that we always think about the most, but for like at least half of them, the 200 is the race they prefer. It's the race they're better at. No, I'll certainly falls into that camp. He has, you know, we had the conversation yesterday, but if there's been a true kind of breakout star of the games and you rightfully pointed to it's not breakout, no, no breakout about it, but it's been Simone Biles Olympics. But is there a world where while a liles picks up double gold and it kind of changes anything? I don't, I don't know how much it changes. He won the one we care about the most. I don't know how much, you know, America, I suppose will hold it against him if he doesn't win the double gold like he wants. And then I'd imagine he wants, you know, four by 100 as well for triple. But I do wonder if he has kind of had the crossover moment for the rest of the world at large and obviously he can maybe add to it with double goal, but I don't know that he's in a position where he can kind of lose it if he doesn't come through. Yeah. I don't think he loses anything if he doesn't come through here though. The one thing I will say is if if he had one in more convincing fashion in the 100 meter then I think it would take on a different life. But the fact that it was so close, yeah, photo finish, like literally, what was it? One, one thousand for a second. It's literally a hair. That's what it is. And so I think that I think that's part of the narrative here. The other thing is too is like, unless he goes and sets a record in the 200 meter, it'll be a great story. But I don't think it's going to be this thing that's overblown or or whatever. Not like a Usain Bolt who wins in convincing fashion and still holds the world record and all that stuff. So I think that's where, and Noah Liles has a personality, no question, but it just doesn't feel the same. You know what I mean? It just doesn't feel like any of the previous printers who just had that different type of personality he does, but it just doesn't feel like any of those other guys. Yeah, I think what it would feel like, what quite frankly needs to happen is he needs to do it again for years from now. Like that's what allows you to have it now. Bolt was a different animal, but like, guys, we have to, you and I as hockey guys are probably the ones who most need to be reminded about this. Generational doesn't mean every generation gets one. It means they were truly stood out among their peers, but it doesn't mean that they're like, again, we've been blessed by this and that it's all right, Wayne and then okay, little, time off, you know, after Wayne and Mario, but then it caused me right to McDavid, right to Baddard, Gavin McKenna coming behind them. It seems like there is one of those guys. There's not always, you know, like sprinters, there will always be a fastest band in the world, but I think about the fastest band in the world, much like I think of the heavyweight champ of the world. There always is one, but there's, you know, the heavyweight champion in the world and the heavyweight champion of the world, like when it was Mike Tyson felt a different way, even when it was, I don't know which one, right, all even go a little more like, not too recent, but slightly it's like whatever Klitschko it was, he felt like the heavyweight champ of the world. Okay. And it just doesn't, it doesn't always carry that same way. That's exactly how I feel about this fastest man in the world thing. The thing about Lyles, it's interesting is he has the personality. It's just that I think our threshold for not caring because we'll always care about that event. Being amazed, I think in a decade we'll have a different threshold for it now. We're just so close. Everybody who's watching these Olympics, unless you're 12, remembers what it was like to watch truly the greatest to ever do it. And I just think that if no Lyles of this performance, if this personality came along a decade from now, and guess what, it will. There's going to be some American sprinter who's great saying, oh, they shouldn't call themselves the world champ. So that's going to happen. And we're going to feel differently about it then because we're not so close to the, quite frankly, the guy who's going to be the standard bearer for an incredibly long time. Yeah, it's, yeah, the show me again thing is a very accurate point there. I do agree with that because there's something about, there's something about longevity in the Olympics because, you know, we were joking, like, you know, they haven't done this in 2016. And it's like, well, those two Olympics ago, like it really wasn't that long ago. But when an athlete does it at a consistent level for multiple Olympics, that's when they take that next step into, you know, Olympic greatness or athletic greatness. So I think that's a, I think that's a very fair point. And Lyles could absolutely get there, but, you know, we have to wait four years to kind of find out. Yeah, we got to see. And then I do wonder again, you know, some of you's going to, like, say something outlandish, but even one's gold again, the new wins goal, if the triple gold, I do think that would kind of put him, but I don't know that it changes things for us. I think that changes things in America. I think that changes, like, the summer of Noah Lyles, and he's going to be, I don't know, I was about to say throughout the first pitch, but they don't do that at the US Open in New York, right? Like, whatever the equivalent of, like, being honored at a tennis matches, he's going to be there and all among those things. The other thing I think that it's, we talk about this in other sports, we certainly should talk about it in this one. How do we feel when the gold standard isn't there in the final? Now, I'm not going to pretend to be, like, a track hard-o, but not having Jamaica in the four by 100 meter final. That feels pretty. It's weird, right? It feels weird. It's like, we've seen this in the past, where the juggernaut gets taken out early on or in the second round of the playoffs, and then we have, oh, what was our, was our anti, or was it anti-nammy versus Michael Layton, who's all attending in the finals when it's, like, the flyers in their hurricanes or something along? I think that was the magic. A flyer. Oh, in the, in the final? Yeah. Fliers black cars. Michael Layton. And, yeah, anti-nammy. No, we shouldn't disrespect the black ox in that way, but it's like, occasionally you get it to seem like the flyers in there and you're, oh, what are we, what are we doing here? And it just feels a little different. Both of those goalies that we're playing, that, that's all you really need to say. But yeah, it is, it is, it's almost like Jamaica should just have an honor or spot in the final. It does feel that way. Like, you know what, I actually, we, we need more of these exhibitions, whoever wins gold, I want to see them race Jamaica. I would like to see that. Why not? Why not? We, we've done this before the idea of their being a breakthrough. I, I just, I think we're going to do this every Olympic cycle until I'm dead. I was going, wow, sprinting. So exciting. We should watch more of it. And then people go have diamond leagues this. You can. I, I just think that this is the way this sport is. There's some sports that the pinnacle of them is the Olympics. It's always going to be that way. The sickos will love it, but I, I just, I can't see a world where you change the track world, like do a complete 180 to kind of cater to having a more like, I don't know, like a formula one schedule or something like that. We do this every Olympics of, wow, I love this event. How can I watch more of it? And it's never going to change. And honestly, I'm fine with that. Like, I don't say that is a problem. I say that is a let this sport be what it is. And then let all the super casuals who come in for the Olympics enjoy it every four years. It's, you know what it has to be? It, there is, and there is a show, um, because somebody had mentioned it and I was like, oh, I didn't. To spread. Yeah. And that's the thing that kind of takes it into the next level. It did a bunch for Formula One in North America, I would say. I also believe that full swing did a lot for golf. That's the type of thing that really, because then you get to know the personality. That's where I think things start to change. Yeah. It's always so tough with that. Cause it's, you know, like I love golf and I was locked in for the first season of full swing and did not watch the second cause it's like, no, no, no, you're hard. No, it's all right. Exactly. It's hard to, it's hard to kind of wrap my head around. It's always who is, who are these things for? The NHL is going to do theirs this year with the, you know, it's a little different. It's not a team. They're following around some of the kind of key principles. I think Neelander's involved and, you know, I forget who else, but, you know, all the names you would kind of want to see there. And it'll be interesting to see if that changes anything cause I think so often that is the, you know, you'll always hear, you know, like, you know, you'll hear these like American kind of generalists who don't talk hockey, but they're always like, oh, you know, I have like run in with some hockey guys, and they're the best. You always hear these stories. I do wonder if you'll be able to kind of get that through. But I think it's the thing we talk about with the personalities of these guys are guarded to a certain extent, but they also just are who they are to a certain extent, right? Like it's not to say that there aren't the, you know, again, God, have a current reference. Not say there aren't like the PK Subans of the world who do want it and are front facing and everything. But I also don't think, I don't think Austin Matthews is a little quiet at times because it's the crushing nature of being a leaf. I think it's just, yeah, that's kind of his personality is pretty laid back. Now do I think maybe like somebody like Mitch Marner has had a little bit of that kind of quieted down in him? Sure. I think there is an element to that. But yeah, it's always kind of fascinating. We, I think the problem is, is it one something works for one sport. We just assume we can work, copy and paste and do it for everything. And honestly, did it work for F1 is kind of my prevailing take on this? Like we all had a moment it struck at the perfect time in the pandemic when we had nothing else going on. I would love a number of how many people consider themselves F1 fans right after that happened and how many people still consider themselves because my, like my wife, she was locked in watching the show with me. We'd be there every Sunday morning like, all right, let's get the races on. And then after six weeks, it's like, I couldn't tell you the last time I watched a race. So I'm also curious of how much can you kind of take that and actually move it forward. Yeah, I think that there is some truth to that. The one thing I will say about F1 specifically is I hear way more people talk about it than before. And I'm not, I'm not a car guy. No, it's funny. It's funny. It's funny. Like I have a, I have like a fake team. Like I joke that like I'm a Ferrari and Charles Leclerc fan and like a follow them on Twitter and you know, give them the, give them the like when it happens. But I don't know. Ask me what happened in his last six races. I got no clue. I think that's part of it. Is it just kind of, you're right. It kind of like worked its way into the lexicod whether people are like watching or following. It's the cool thing to do even though it's not the cool thing to do anymore. And I also sometimes think we get so warped in our understanding of these things as well because we're so locked in. It's like how many people do you end up having a conversation with at a, you know, a birthday party or a barbecue or something and the guy's like, Oh yeah, like I like watch the J's. It's like, you do? Yeah, you know, like 15 times a year I watch the J's and that's just what sports is for a lot of people. I think there's a lot of money to be gleaned out of those people quite frankly. So yeah, it's always interesting the way we, we get kind of bogged down in that stuff. A lot more on the Olympics coming up after 730, coming up after seven Charles Davis, but right now, of course, of course, of course, it's time for the Canadian football report brought to you by Securian Canada, the official life insurance partner of the CFL. We're nearly halfway through the 2024 CFL regular season. For the first time all year, everybody's got a dub under their belt week 10 starts up on Thursday night with the five and three Saskatchewan Rough Riders in the nation's capital to take on the five and two red blacks returning from a bi week to play at home and riding a three game win streak. The red blacks are feeling good sitting second in the East. They'll play a Rough Riders team that failed to take over sole possession of first in the West last week and week nine. They'll be, they are dealing with a numerous key injuries. Second part of a back to back meetings with the four and four Argonauts hosting the four and four stamps. Toronto was looking for revenge on Calgary after the stamps scored 21 points in the fourth quarter to pull off a late comeback win last week. The good news is the Argos are a promising three and one straight up at home this year. The stamps have yet to win on the road this season on Saturday night. It's the top team in the East, the seven and one als hosting the last place two and six tabby cats, another back, the home and home series in the first game Montreal overcame a quiet first half to recruit and beat Hamilton 33 16 for their sixth straight win over the black and gold worth noting with nothing clicking for the tie cats this season with home crowd behind them. The outs this week, expand Montreal's league leading offense to hammer Hamilton's league bottom defense at Molson stadium. The final week of the final game of week 10 has the Edmonton elks host in the BC lines in a battle of the top teams going in opposite directions. The elks definitely have momentum on their side in this game. Meanwhile, the Lions lost their QB and MOP favorite Vernon Adams Jr. They're coming off a week where they went scoreless losing 25 nothing to the blue bombers. The week 10 by comes at a bad time for Winnipeg who just started to put things together and picked up their biggest win of the season last week. That was the Canadian football report brought to you by security in Canada, the official life insurance partner of the CFL. As I mentioned, your friend in mind, Charles Davis, the football talk continues next fan morning show on Sportsnet five nine to the fan.
