Tune into this episode of the Top Floor podcast where Darren Kanthal chats with Lindsey Schultz, CEO of MRC Recruiting. Lindsey shares her journey from initially resisting the family business to embracing her role as a leader in the mining and resource sector. She's passionate about making the recruitment process more human, emphasizing that interviews should be a two-way street, allowing both employers and candidates to seek the best fit. Listen in for an insightful discussion on how finding real meaning in work can elevate routine business practices to exceptional outcomes.
For more information on MRC Recruiting, visit: https://mrc-recruiting.com/
Connect with Lindsey Schultz on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsey-schultz-mrc/
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From
The Top Floor Team
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Hello and welcome to the top floor podcast. This is episode two of the Denver edition. My name is Darren Canthel. I'll be your host and I'm especially excited today to speak with Lindsey Schulz, who is the CEO of MRC Recruiting because I too am a former recruiter and also the owner of a family owned business started. For me at least kind of by my dad and there's a story about that but yours is started by your dad. So welcome Lindsey. Thank you so much Darren for having you today and for the awesome introduction. I feel like we have a lot of points of sort of overlap in our background so I'm pleased to have a conversation with you today. Yeah, all right well let's start with the most important one which is it's 9 a.m. for us here in Denver. We're both drinking coffee. Cheers. Cheers. We're about in Denver. Do you live Lindsey and what's some of your favorite coffee shops around? That's a really good question. So I originally moved to Denver and I lived sort of in the low high area and there was an awesome little coffee shop right across from my apartment at the time and it's since turned into apartment buildings unfortunately but when I and now I live in Colorado Springs but down here there is a place that I like to go to and now I'm forgetting the name of it. It's next to the place I get my hair done and it's lovely and they have I told you earlier that I was drinking a chai and coffee blend and this is my new favorite thing so they called it a durru chai. I was introduced to this there and now I think it's the greatest thing ever so. Did I hear you correctly? Does the the place you ate haircut also serves coffee? No it's right next to it. So then I like a whole day of awesomeness. I like it to go get my like coffee chai blend and then like go get a haircut and like thaw out and it's a remarkable day. Love it. Love it. So you say when you first moved to Colorado or to Denver where did you grow up? New Mexico. Yes. So sort of a southwestern US dweller. So New Mexico and then Arizona I did my master's degree and then it got a bit hot so I migrated slightly north and found myself in the mountains which is a good spot to be. Yeah so for those considering an MBA or a master's do you recommend it? It depends on what you want to do. I think I've talked a few people out of MBAs and I think I've talked a few people into them so you know I think I have been well served by it but I think others there's so many opportunities for continued education at this point that I think it just depends on what you really want to do. Got to ask those hard questions. It's probably been six years since I left corporate America in recruiting and I do remember specifically in my last stint there were candidates that just because they had gotten an MBA expected more big titles more money only because of the MBA and I always thought that was a little maybe mismatched, misconstrued thoughts. I find that as well really with any level of masters and sometimes PhDs. Sometimes I find that actually PhDs will not make as much money over the longer haul because they top out because they wind up being too academic or they don't have management side and all kinds of other stuff but often individuals get out with the MBA and it gets the golden ticket to an increased salary and sometimes you still have to earn it right outside of education. Okay so before I get ahead of myself because I have a habit of doing that I'd love to give you an opportunity to say a little bit about your company. So at MRC recruiting as you mentioned my doc founded it about 40 years ago and we focused on a lot of the resource space and high tech and other areas and specialized for a while in HR across industry and so as we put more HR professionals into resources and specifically mining we became mining focused and so we are a niche recruiting firm focused on the mining of resource space providing top talent to our companies, our clients really from entry through board level. So it's really fun to work with full gamut of opportunities from finance, engineering, to geology whatever it might be because it gives us the breadth of having those funky conversations with all kinds of interesting people. So your mining advocacy moniker on LinkedIn has a dual meeting does it not? It does. Yeah nice job I like that. I do because I saw it this morning and of course I immediately went to the recruiting side but it has a much deeper meeting for you. It does. So mining for people, mining for the kissing if I can talk. Yeah I'm pretty passionate about the mining industry and what I can do for really our modern world and I think in the US particularly there's just generally a lack of knowledge from where our minerals and resources are coming from and so I spend quite a bit of time one educating myself about that not being a technical mining professional but two trying to talk to other students and other individuals you know in various backgrounds to let them know that there are some opportunities within that and responsible ways of doing. So it's my soapbox. I will only speak for myself in this story. I'm not saying this is you. When I was a recruiter my first job was in New York City and I worked for a retained agency that recruited primarily for Deutsche Bank so big investment bank and what I always marveled at is I was using words, financial products that I really didn't understand but I could use them in sentences and sound like I knew what I was talking about and I always marveled at that like the fact that I really was really quite dumb on the what the technical thing meant but I sounded smart enough to be in these rooms to use these words and sentences. I was always found that fascinating. It is a fascinating thing and it takes time to do that. I think that there is a skill in just even trying to get there and I think that I noticed a lot of recruiters don't even try to do it and for me the first time it was relatively early in my career and I just finished my MBA and mining was really taking off and that's when I sort of jumped into this area with two feet but I felt I really struggled with imposter syndrome at this point because I was female in a male-dominated industry. I was not a technical mining professional and I was 24 years old and so all of those things in the mining industry were sort of like three strikes against me from my perspective and so all I thought was let me go and figure out as much as I possibly can and an individual that is a friend of mine now. I actually texted me oddly this morning so funny how the universe works. He said look come to the mine that I work at and he was a metallurgist and he said come to the mine that I work at it will change your perspective on everything that you're doing forever and you'll get to see the equipment and the mill and the processes and all the big trucks and how this all works and it happened to be one of the largest copper mines in the US so this was a real treat and literally I to this day know what all of it looks like you know there are variations but now I go to the mine sites anytime I can for the exact reason that you're saying like sometimes you just got to go and see it so that you can talk about it. Well as a shameless plug if you ever get invited to another one and you're looking for a guest I would love to go. Okay I'll take you. Okay I will I hope that got truly I love that. There are some really cool ones here in Colorado so we can totally do this we can have a future. Yeah so you talked about jumping in with both feet just to expand a little bit for my curiosity is jumping in with both feet was not just about the industry the three strikes against you but it was also the family business which you had told me previously was not necessarily what you thought your path was going to be and I'm curious a little bit about how that path came to be for you. Well now I can call it serendipity I guess but I don't it was not the plan. My background although you know aligned with what I do on a daily basis my undergrad was in human resources and I truly thought I was going to go and be an HR person perhaps a consultant and do some cool stuff and travel and you know be like somebody on TV I had a very glossy version of what this life was going to look like and you know we're suits to the office God forbid and just I sit here in my yoga pants and so I got out of school at a time period I think it was 2005 or so and the market was not wonderful. I got a few job offers that were HR focused but every single one of them would have required me to sit in an office and sort of be a paper pusher and be the bad guy and I didn't really want to do that and so I thought whoa what have I done what sort of my first reaction and how do I maybe undo this or figure out how to make this a longer-term viable option for myself so my dad said hey you know until you really figure this out why don't you come and work with me and I joke you know every year was 15 years later than 18 years later so no I like almost 19 years later here I sit running our organization and I've really never looked back I totally did jumping with two feet and I really initially the first two years focused on HR stuff and I tell the story you know I couldn't place any more HR people in roles that they called me and were like oh my god what an awful situation it just was confirmed why I didn't want to do that and then when my dad said hey join on the lining side of the business we have a very distinct and separate at that time that was that was the two feet moment and then it was before the virtual crisis and I have a whole lot of different lessons I had to learn but it's been a really awesome scenario to find myself learning from my dad who's my mentor and somebody that I obviously respect and enjoy working with and we have all kinds of family jokes about how we can't live in the same state work together but it really has been an experience unlike any other I think was there a was there a moment in that transition if you will from not wanting to join the family business to now being the CEO was there a distinct moment where where you found yourself leaning more in um I think motivation ebbs and flows at any given point right and so I think I found myself leaning in a lot of different times and then perhaps retracting but I think probably most notably for me was in the midst of COVID I had a baby in January of 2020 um and COVID was just sort of emerging I was literally sitting in the NICU with my kid and watching the news about COVID in China and thinking like oh this is gonna affect us and here we are several years later and it's still affecting us um but it was sort of at that point where I thought this is a good time to perhaps sharpen our talents and look forward and where I can do what I am good at but in all the ways that matter to me because I had less time for any of the nonsense um and I wanted to use the time that I had to be away from my kids or my husband or anything like that to do something that really meant something to me um and so that sort of is leverage me to lean in even further um and figure out what this business really looks like for myself and the others that I get to lead yeah all right so I know we talked about this maybe just as a reminder for you and anyone listening what we're hoping is that our conversation is helpful to other business owners, founders, CEOs, presidents, etc. So you just talked about a definable moment in 2020 where I think your words were sharp in our talents and I forgot what you said after but I think it was something about growing I think um so as we think about irrespective of anyone listening for you and MRC what were those talents you were looking to sharpen? Have a unique lens I think on recruitment having grown up in a family business that was run from our home it's evolved rapidly um and and so much has changed in the pace of what it is that we do and the expectation of its outcome and how how far reaching it really is and I think that from my perspective I was a kid and would get resumes in the mail on beautiful letterhead and like it was my job to unfold them and put them on whoever's desk or you know as that evolved it came in my facts but facts paper if it's at the end of turn black and so you have to copy it and then you put it on somebody's desk you know and so like it took longer for stuff to happen at that point a company would call and we need xyz and then we would put a three sentence add out in a newspaper somewhere and call everybody that you know the group new and network and do everything you know they didn't have computers they had the lean cars that they worked off of and so like having grown up seeing that and then by the time I actually joined the company we had like a formal database and all the rest of this stuff um and also the expectation of success and placement and everything else was happening much faster so by the time we had covid we're using a tsss and we are very formal in terms of processes and eos and like all the stuff that you have to live here to and they thought how can we sort of humanize recruitment in a way that you know doesn't make it feel too stale you know that everybody's just going through a computer system I want to be somebody that is in their back pocket even if they're not looking for a job they can call and say hey Lindsay I had a rough day and I'm thinking of looking for a new role talk me off the ledge or like what's out there like what's going to make this a little bit rosier and so for me creating meaning rather than just creating process became more of where I found alignment and and perhaps differentiations from others that were out there perhaps not and I just want to think of that as unique um but it still is like one of the big pillars for me is making this a very very humid process and they talk a lot about how candidates and hiring managers and companies have to show vulnerabilities so that they can find good fits and matches and everything else because without that we're just going off a checklist we can fill that checklist almost a hundred percent of the times as long as it's reasonable but there's so much more to it and without really digging into the human side of it it's it's sort of a boyfriends and never that was a really wrong answer no no it's a great answer I have three or four points if I remember the first is I completely resonate with the humanization of it when I coach job seekers one of the things that I lean into is we want to quote-unquote humanize the job search and I don't know about you but I've been on the interviewing side and getting these robotic answers that I think they can is saying what they think I want to hear and it's not very effective very ineffective I would say um and like you know a canned response or what what they think you want to hear doesn't doesn't make a good match for them either and so I would go as far as to say that most interviews are you know too cited the candidate should be interviewing the company as diligently as the company is interviewing the candidate because you know maybe I think sometimes candidates especially more junior candidates are programmed to win like if I come to them with a job and I say hey aren't even interested in being a geologist for ex-company you're like that one's ever called me about a job before this is really flattering oh yeah but like of course I'm going to pursue it right even if they have really no interest in sort of like uncovering the interest and uncovering all that is important but I tell them like you don't have to win it you can ask questions you can be you know as investigative of them as they are of you and I would suggest it do all of your homework ask ask me questions ask your friends questions like this is all really important because sort of you know out of the pot or out of the pot and into the fire is a real saying and uh and it happens all the time if people don't find their right match and so I think that um giving the employer all power is is totally wrong I mean it does highlight the saying that candidates should be interviewing the employer as much as the employers interviewing them I don't think a lot of candidates do that yeah I don't think that they feel like they can right and sometimes they'll ask me like hey is it okay if I talk about xy or z or should I let them know about you know my husband or wife or kids or that or whatever and my answer is always like you can let them know as much as you feel comfortable right and everyone will will take in that knowledge differently but part of that is revealing do you want to work for a company that's like oh or else you have a family with a life outside of work like if that's important to you that doesn't align right and so you know we use sort of four big questions and and they try to reveal what do you want where are you growing what do you want to do you know more of and growing and what areas are you great at perhaps never want to do again and so those questions help me to get candidates thinking who perhaps sometimes haven't had the moment to be introspective and say what they want to do over the longer haul and so you know we've got a worksheet and try to kind of push them through it and I'm sure you would be much much better at it as a coach but you know it's sort of some very very basic things and when you don't when you're just plugging away every day and something changes and as a catalyst for you to seek something else news you haven't had a chance to ask yourself those hard questions yeah there's something else I want to comment on about your literal upbringing with the resumes in the mail the fax machine the early advent of computers as it related to recruiting like you literally grew up at the speed of technology it seems to me do you mean you're real old no that was not my intention but I get it you know because right there used literally a lot of recruiters and business people had a literal roa decks yeah a literal we had multiple literal yeah and in fact I had we had so many lead cards and this sounds ridiculous we had them for years I was probably in middle school high school doing like science test and like they had like really faint printing because they came in like these rolls and you had like break this side out because it had bowls in it it would go through like this funny little printer and so then when they were done with them or like when they finally got put into a computer then I would wind up with stacks of basically like three by five cards that I used for flashcards forever so I would just write over it like marker or whatever and I use those for flashcards because it would like an avid recycler so it's like don't throw them so I use them forever I love it but yeah it was an interesting thing to and I've actually read several things about millennials right and I fall into the elder millennial category and so they're like you knew what life was like without the internet right and and like how it's all evolved into now everything is literally at our fingertips on our cell phones and it's a really interesting thing to see because like even my four-year-old knows how to use all of the technology where as a kid you have to like type in commands to get to like your video game on a computer so yeah it's been technology is our prime for sure well to help help you feel younger I started recruiting in 2000 and I was primarily in the financial services space and some of the biggest banks Merrill Lynch Bear Stearns when they were around JP Morgan some of them didn't even have a website in 2000 yeah and if they did it was real rudimentary basic yeah well I mean the website end of the game has changed so drastically and and continues to do so and I totally geek out on our website I'm not I'm not even gonna not bring that up but I love it and I love seeing how it works and if it draws attention and like all the stuff and I have a great marketing person who takes very good care of us in that aspect but our first website was pretty rudimentary I wish I still had a copy of that I bet the internet does somewhere somewhere somewhere I've heard some people talk about today's website acts as yesterday's business card and I'm curious is you network and you go out and about do you have business cards what do you do for that yeah um this is also evolved and I think it's really fun um I have a business card um it has a QR code on it though okay and I think that that happened several years ago and it just points them to a specific page on a website or we can track it and other stuff which is fun um but I also have a little QR code on my phone so I've learned that basically like somebody can scan it um and then ultimately I pop up in their phone I feel like I might be a little old school and I think that's a little invasive like I probably don't want everybody I need to be in my cell phone um and so I would hate to assume that it really wants me to be in their cell phone so if they ask for it I have it um but sometimes I'm like look here's a card and it's your choice to get in touch right yeah so I think the business card thing is very interesting I also have this like little thing on the back of my cell phone as I look at it you can't see it um it's like a dot and so you can kind of like touch phones oh yeah and then it also gets you the information but I don't like that one either so I'm I'm old school business cards all the way I've noticed just in the last maybe six or twelve months I've had more people ask for a business card than I remember in the last five or six years prior well that's just because you're getting fancier maybe maybe well you know I think I have a stack of business cards on my desk and sometimes like after I meet somebody or whatever I like break notes on it so I don't forget um because life happens right yeah I think business cards are literally a tangible reminder of whatever it is and some of them are actually really really cool yeah I want to come back to uh you talking about humanizing the job search okay but I want to remove the job search I am curious as you're at the helm of your company how are you how are you humanizing your company and I and the next piece to it is I think about employee engagement satisfaction I don't think too far from there is uh the psychological safety of speaking up and debating disagreeing so I'm curious about that humanization of the firm yeah um I appreciate that question um and it's something I think about a lot um I think the HR background helps with that but you know it's one thing to expouse that others do it it's another to do it yourself right and so as a small company I think that sometimes you can absolutely and we've we've fallen victim to this you know over the course of years as well or certain cycles of business where you're surviving rather than thriving and and you're sort of just pressing along doing work or you get so busy that you forget about the rest of the stuff that should matter right um and so in terms of humanizing our own organization for me part of the motivation to do what I do every day is that I get to work with an amazing team and so I want them to feel amazing which means they get to work from home and that you know if they go to a conference or have meetings with clients that like wear something that makes you feel good I don't care if you're in a suit go and put your best face forward right and and however that exudes from you and is authentic to you where do it say we have a flavor we have a culture we have a way that each of us can talk and that brings in clients that are loyal because we're authentically ourselves and so I'm going to that psychological safety component I don't want to have a team that that fears me or things that they have to conform you know there are processes and things that we do to just maintain integrity and make sure everybody is treated appropriately as candidates and as clients but they get to choose ultimately how they how they run that and I think having that freedom and also telling me I don't want to work with that company or whatever that might be having that right of refusal if they don't align in some way I think is is also an important factor that I always consider and we have team meetings on a weekly basis where you know sometimes we talk about our kids and our families and whatever is going on and sometimes we talk about the searches that we're working on or any blend of those things in between but you know I think not wanting to have conversations with your with your boss your mentor your your colleague whatever that looks like that's not the kind of culture that I want to have and so I work really hard to make sure that everybody wants to be on our weekly fall and share stuff and feels comfortable to do so so that evolves and sometimes you know we at busy or it's crazy and it looks a little different but even knowing that you've got support from others so that you can figure out the right answers or figure out path forward is important because I think that as I've gotten you know to be an adult which is still weird to think about I think you're 41 or so the more I realize everybody's sort of winging it right like we're you do the best you can with what you know and I and when you know why you do better and and the same thing is being a leader and so being willing to admit our flaws or mistakes you know how we could do something better I think is inherent to being you know a person that's receptive to growth and so I try to do that and I try to lead that way so that my team feels comfortable doing this thing you use the word adult and as you're talking until you use it I was I was thinking to myself you're an adult treating other adults as adults what what what a shocking theory and practice right right well you know micro managing takes too much effort it's too much and you don't want to work with people who are acting like adults even if we're pretending to act like adults just you know maybe you know walk the walk yeah you talked about a lot of people winging it I think this is an important topic or point I'll make a statement that I'm curious what you think about it so my walk of life not just as a coach these days but as I think about some of the executives I support on the recruiting side some of my colleagues etc etc what I have heard more often than I like from senior leaders is some self-image that they need to be all knowing as in they have to have all the answers saying I don't know is not an option etc I think those are the two points being all knowing and not being able to say I don't know and yet we're all human and when you really break down the barriers and you have vulnerability and human humanization people do say I like what do I do I'm winging it just like everybody else yeah what do we do with that what do you what do you make of that it's hard right and I think sometimes ego puts in the way of being able to say I don't know sometimes it feels too vulnerable to say I don't know and I've probably had a hard time with it until the last two years um I'm asking for things is hard saying I don't know is hard you know being uncomfortable and and not knowing how to progress in a way that may render success or may not right like those are all big scary things in our world and I think that in leadership roles and management roles as individuals running a company or who are supposed to be responsible for providing work and income to others it's it feels weird to say I don't know or I feel unprepared because you want people to trust you and so I think that it's sort of just been you know or even as a parent I mean I think that all of this ties in for me as lessons I've learned from being a parent I don't have all the answers I'm not going to figure everything out on the first go this is all a bit of trial and error and I think that being a parent gave me the permission to feel and think that way where I probably wouldn't ever have said any of those things before I had kids um and so I would encourage others to find individuals that they can be vulnerable with whether it's a coach or a group that they get to go to because learning from others accelerates your ability to not make those same mistakes yourself right and accelerates you to say it's okay to not know everything and I can learn lessons from other people which is why I think podcasts and books and and all of these other avenues of like injecting sort of knowledge to yourself you know outside of doing formal education are really really powerful tools but it's okay to not know and to not have the answer because even the ones that think they do probably still question that right I remember when I was younger oh sorry I just cut you off I didn't hear you I just don't want to tell you about it yes right yeah you know I was thinking about myself when I was younger there was there was a there was something about being knowing and I tied that to my sense of self-worth and as I've aged and become a little more confident and a little less insecure I almost feel like I've been welcomed into some secret club which is most of us are winging it and most of us don't know and it's perfectly okay to say so but there was like a very definable threshold that I crossed to get there it's so weird so for you was it saying like I I'm just winging it too it was even more profound than that is um I went through a program called positive intelligence and uh it just happened I started just before the world shut down in 2020 and through the teachings it really gave me a window into the archetypes or the voices or characters that play a role in my brain and how prominent the negative voices were and how muted the positive yeah and it it just gave me a window into that and then from there mitigating your coping mechanisms or practices to kind of reverse the stage quiet the negative um turn up the positive but also recognizing when that negative voice is starting to whittle away recognizing it and being able to be like you know my New York way shut the fuck up that's exactly right and you have to like literally it's something that you have to say in your head right and and I mean I appreciate you're sharing that because I think it's important to recognize like we all have that chatter right and and figuring out ways to quiet it and mute the negative or the self-limiting beliefs and all that is part of being willing to be vulnerable and share that you don't know that you need help that you need to ask for something or whatever that might look like um but the more you do it the more comfortable it becomes and really instead of it feeling like a limiting factor at least for me it's felt like now I have three sources and that has been like the you know propelled me to do it more and more um and so but it is practice and there are moments where you're like no book you and do that or I hope that's not a safe place right and recognizing that is a different skill um at least I think. May I ask what are some of the practices or things you use to quiet that negative and embrace the positive? I think that that's a good question and um so I love podcasts. It's the reason I said yes to doing this. I just think it's fascinating to learn from other people and sometimes you find books or sometimes different resources or whatever um but for me it's a really accessible way of understanding myself rather than like sitting down and reading because sometimes it's just like the gateway to falling asleep from the car and they can absorb this new knowledge um so I love podcasts and I love learning from them and so over the last really probably five or six years um I've listened to an array of them um and sometimes that has gotten me to think a little bit differently about how I talk to myself and also utilizing a coach um so I've used two executive coaches one to help me kind of get through that transition of becoming you know the leader of our organization and what I thought that was and what it really turned out to be um and how to reconcile those um but they gave me sort of the permission the confidence the tool set to say some of these beliefs are not serving you how do you get rid of them how do you talk to yourself how would you talk to a friend and give them advice and one of the things that I I remind myself routinely when I'm being hypercritical of decisions or a path forward or whatever that I've chosen I can't undo that path right I can learn from it I can figure out how to make it better from there um and I don't I'm not really a person that kind of has that like moment to like regret I'm sort of like well I'm on this path let's make the best of it um but but one of the coaches that I use said you know talk to yourself like you're the hero of the story and solve it from there so like if you got to rewrite this and sort of narrate it in your brain how would you be telling this story how would you be making this positive for yourself so that you can go through it in a way that doesn't feel so like heavy and awkward and weird and all of that and so that's one way the other is I literally brand new for me um I was listening to a podcast who was called Hidden Brain I love that one and Shopper Fledante I think is the the host and he was talking to a neuroscientist and he said like we all have what they call chatter and the best way of making it go away is by literally talking to yourself in your brain as weird as that sounds they were like wake up in the middle of the night you have like these spiraling thoughts and you're going around and around because you have to tell your brain stop because you won't find an answer to it in the middle of the night but we have chatter all the time and so figuring out ways to manage that chatter is important but they went as far on this podcast to say that this woman had a stroke and the chatter went away and she hated that she didn't have chatter and so it's important also because it gives us that moment of reflection to say like to check in and say how are we feeling what do we need what are the things that we're not willing to say out loud yet um and process those and so I kind of just try to keep a fairly good read on what my chatter sounds like and if it's productive or not. Don't quote me on this stat but I've I've looked up about those of us that do have internal narrative chair, chatter, dialogue, whatever, inner critic, etc. And depending on what stat you look at some suggest up to 50% of the population does not have internal narrative. Interesting. I'm blown away by that. I mean like I said on this they were like is that good or is that bad? This lady was so used to it. It was it was like really striking that she didn't have it anymore and I think I feel the same way like if my brain wasn't doing this at the bathroom it'd be like it's awfully quiet in here. So we are just about at time Lindsay. Any parting thoughts before we conclude? I appreciate being here and having a chance to to sort of chat and I think that for me at least on this forum that I think it's just really important for for leaders, CEOs and others to probably like my number one takeaway as I try to figure out what I'm doing is that you don't have to have all the answers right and that like finding the resources whether it be books or coaches or otherwise podcasts etc that it's a very empowering moment when you can say like okay I have others to rely upon and I have other resources and so I think that's a powerful moment when you can look at others and say let's work on this together. Love it. Love it. Well thank you for being here. Thank you for coming. Lindsay Schultz the CEO of MRC Recruiting and we'll see you next time. Thank you Darren. Bye bye.
