Meet my new Okiehomie, KC Taylor! KC is doing great things! Here are some links to make it easy to find KC!
https://www.spirituncensored.org/making-peace-with-your-inner-shit-talker
Emotionally Unavailable
Episode 40: Spiritual AF
I create badass spiritual playgrounds for a reason. Welcome to Emotionally Unavailable, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of emotional availability and intimacy. I'm your host, Melissa Hepner, and I can't tell you how excited I am to have you join me on this journey of self-discovery and connection. Whether you're navigating the complexities of relationships or exploring your own emotional landscape, this podcast is here to inspire, empower, and entertain. So get cozy and let's explore the depths of human emotions together. Hello, everyone. Today's episode is with my new friend, Casey Taylor. I am going to give the links on Facebook and I will say them verbally in the closing part of today's episode because I don't want you to have a hard time getting to it if you need to find it again. I was having the most terrible day and was dreading recording because I can't show up fake. You know, I'm not good at faking it when I'm not in a good mood as you will hear when the conversation starts. Man, I felt so rejuvenated after talking to Casey, so I hope that you do as well. After just hearing, I don't know, just an energetic exchange kind of, and I had just a really good time. I don't know why my dogs have to drive me crazy, but there's a lot going on. You know, you're going to start to hear me talk more about my religious trauma and some of it is from the church itself and the messaging that I received and the issues I have with the theology that I was taught, which for me honestly translates to most organized religion now because of the way that I feel women are treated and instructed to be treated in those religions. The thing is, is that a lot of things were inflicted on me in the name of God. And so many hurts happened in my family. There's some umbrella of raising a child up as you're supposed to according to this law of Christianity. So anyway, I never want to be disrespectful of other people's belief systems. I'm very closed off to my empathy, I guess I'll say, or people who ascribe to Christianity. So I have a hard time engaging in those discussions right now because I'm still working through that trauma. So I'm just going to be more open about that and not be afraid to say it. I live in Oklahoma and there's a lot of people like me out there and so much of our narcissistic upbringing was intertwined with teachings from the Bible. And, you know, I don't want to hurt people with that, but that is what it is for me and for lots of other people. And, you know, I do think that that is not an experience everybody understands, you know. I feel like that's part of my truth and I've been so scared of offending people about it for so long. And I'm just not going to be anymore. I don't want to be intentionally offensive at all, but I'm going to be honest about how I feel. And when we continue to harm women based off theology, I just can't engage in a respectful conversation around that. And I don't find that most people can, honestly. I think that's why it's such a divisive issue. So I'm going to forgive myself for where I'm at on that journey. But anyway, the point is I've been afraid to talk about that and I've been afraid to talk about certain family members because of backlash and I'm just not going to be afraid to talk about that anymore. And I have to find the most equal footing that I can. And I'm trying really hard to do that. And I want and need to be in alignment with my purpose and to surround myself with people who are seeking alignment to their purpose. And that we are all helping each other reach our purpose. So I really, really, really want to meet more people like Casey who are just out there making their own futures happen. I want to make my own future happen like in a different way even than I have been. I want to believe in myself the way I believe in Casey Taylor. And I do believe in myself a lot, but when I think of someone in a third person, it's just a much different experience. So anyway, I hope that you guys liked today's episode. I really did. And I will make sure I give you all of their information in the clothes. So here's Casey. Hi. Hey, how are you? I'm doing really good. How are you? I'm having kind of a shit day. I'm not going to lie to you. I appreciate that about you. I love that I don't know you for nothing, but your authenticity and your language. I don't know if we have never had a conversation. But my, my center, my spiritual center is called spirit uncensored and you like totally fit our vibe. Yeah. Well, I'm not going to lie to you. I had to call Diana because of my shit day. I said, listen, I'm recording with Casey very soon. And she was like, she said, call me when that's done. Okay, because you're going to be better. And I was like, I already believe that. I was like, no, I'm so sorry. You're having a bad day, but no, it's going to be just funny. So anyway, yeah, you're, I looked at your site and it said, I was looking at the words whenever she entered the phone. It said something about bad ass something. And I was like, I'm not as worried. I'm not as worried. So I saw on your notes that you wanted to talk about addressing your inner critic or whatever. And I would love to talk about that. I think that that goes along really well with what we've been talking about a lot lately because I just discovered this and it's kind of changed my life, but about what Troy love calls the shadows of shame. So I think that this goes really well with that. And I'm really excited for even more information. Because this is the area I have identified a lot of wounds connected to, you know, like my core wounds really do lead back to so much shame, which has created a lot of really negative self talk. I don't struggle as much with criticizing myself anymore. I'm really good at determining that everything is everyone else's fault. If I don't want to deal with how I feel about it, you know, and so, okay, it's probably not their fault. I'm going to have to sit and figure out why I'm so pissed real quick. And then I'm like, okay, I'm just overwhelmed or, you know, whenever I have to deal with things by myself. It hits the neglect wound really hard. And it's always at the time of day when my husband is hasn't called yet to say like, I'm on the way home, should I pick anything up, whatever. So, and he does have a super consistent schedule. So I kind of never know what when to expect what, which is not very good for me, honestly. I'm just constantly like, every fucking time I need something, I have nobody, you know, so then I got to start, you know, just kind of lying to myself and telling, telling myself everyone in my life's a piece of shit or whatever. Anyway, inner critic. So I, my, my whole thing around, actually, like, I'll, I'll back up a little bit and just tell you a little bit about myself and how I even was inspired to create the making notes that talk or program. So I, I even like, you know, the experience of my ministry, I'll go all the way back. I will say like, for me, my experience, my identity of being mixed race and gender nonconforming has really made it so that I never fit into anybody. I wasn't born into a box. And that experience of being an American, not born to a specific box like even my dad was raised Jewish my mom was raised Baptist. They both rejected their own, like, their upbringing around spirituality and around the time that that I was a kid, you know, they both have their own kind of clear spiritual journeys today but when I was a child, they were both like in that in the trauma of it all and really gave me the space and the freedom to define spirituality for myself and great about that is like, most Americans don't get that experience. You have this like, this is our faith and you have to identify whether you do or don't agree with whatever I got to really go through my own process and also like be exposed to Baptist Southern Baptist and Christian upbringing while being in a place like Chicago, where like, you know, you and I are having this conversation in Oklahoma City, but like growing up in Chicago, like, it is not a Bible about experience like there is a lot of diversity of expression of spirituality. So I really like had the freedom. I wouldn't say I was encouraged, but like kind of where I'm literally like, there's a church on the corner Lutheran church on the corner that I went to Sunday school on my own when I was eight years old and my mom would write me an offering check. I didn't know 18 even say it was for give it to him, baby. Yeah, that's what happened. And I would want that. Okay, make sure you give it to him. For sure. And what was so great about it is that I didn't have, you know, there were no parents. I got to go to church. Got to go to Sunday school. Yeah. However, you wanted to. Yes. And know that none of this information, none of these questions I'm asking are ever going to get to my parents or even knows who my parents are. So, that's the beauty for me. I'm growing up in the 80s, like the freedom that I experienced of like walking through the city of Chicago, going where I wanted to go. Yeah. Well, and I think too, you've, you've kind of offered me a little bit of solace, I'll say, because I have always felt a little guilty that I left the church when my oldest was probably like nine. And he's 21 now. And so the youngest at 10 has only ever been to a Mormon church with her grandmother. Like, I don't do church. And when she talks to I say, yeah, some people believe that. Yeah. That's how I respond to everything that anyone talked to some like, yeah, I mean, I'm going to honor whatever you want to believe in, but that's not my belief. That's exactly what my mom did, because my dad's Jewish like it was really like my questions were more about God and the God of the Bible. I was like, this doesn't make any sense to me. And the question I wasn't allowed to question. I was like, you know, Southern Baptist in Oklahoma was very much like you do not. That is, you are not acting in faith. And I was like, okay, well, you know what, never asking another mouth. I can question again. You're right. For sure. I was given that, that freedom and support. So they both would say to me when I would ask these questions about the God of the Christian Bible, Jews Bible to, you know, the same God of, you know, this doesn't look like what God feels like to me and for me. And my parents would say, that doesn't feel like this to us either, which is why we don't go to those things like you do you, but they, we don't want to influence you, but like saying that was it. So I really feel like just being somebody who was outside of the boxes that I had a perspective that was worth sharing and bringing and originally the idea was around television. I, as a child, I learned about Norman Lear and all in the family and Maude and all of these shows that really spoke about social issues and brought people together and brought understanding and clarity. So that was, I had this like dream since I was 11 years old that I wanted to be a super TV producer that produced companies or dramas like Shonda Rhimes. I think is another great example of our kind of modern day. Norman Lear. And so like that was the dream that I had in my heart and moved to Los Angeles on a leap of faith. I found the Center for Spiritual Living that your cousin Diana, that's how I know Diana is through the Center for Spiritual Living. And, and so I took this leap of faith and struggled to break into the television industry and my struggle. I started taking every class that the spirit centers for spiritual living had to offer and ended up a minister. That's what happens when you take all the classes. Yeah, you know what I know, I don't want to call us to this. For sure. And, and lo and behold, the moment that I completed ministerial school, my television career totally took off. I ended up as a creative executive at Viola Davis's production company, Juvie Productions. And just like, wow, I was living my best life. So the, the ministry thing, nothing that I ever expected to make any moves, you know, like I had no goals around ministry and all it's so ever. But the moment again, just like my career ended up skyrocketing centers centers for spiritual living across Southern California just started calling me and saying, Hey, can you come speak here on a Sunday. And I was like, how did you get my number. So I just ended up with this like, just opportunities to speak and had a whole brand and like, you know, had no sense of clarity as to what I was even doing as a minister. And I went to this retreat. It's called the next gen retreat still going on. That's four people in the centers for spiritual living community who are 18 to 35 ish and I was literally like 37 when I went to this retreat. And it gave me this vision of spirit uncensored, which is the organization that I, that I co created. So at this retreat on the second, the second year that I went. We did this meditation that was to go inside the deep dark recesses of our heart and feel the energy, the presence of this looming figure that's weighing on our heart. And at the very end of the meditation, you turn around and see who this person is. And when I turned around, I saw myself. And so, then there's this forgiveness practice where it's, it's similar to the ho, ho, pono, pono prayer. Thank you. I love you. Please forgive me. Something along those lines and variation of it, where we repeated with a partner, the name, and then I love you. Forgive me all that jazz. I'm taking one of them was, I'm sorry I gave you my power. I'm taking it back now. I'm sorry I gave you my power. I'm taking it back now. The K for Casey is Karen. So as I was saying this shit talking Karen just came to me. So I just affirmed that I was taking my power back from my inner shit through the process of this meditation. And that was in 2019. And over the course of the next few years, I just, and you've talked a lot about this on your podcast about how you've been on this trend of listening to your intuition and trusting that guide you. So I've been on that same, that moment was the realization that I really operated from what my inner shit talker had to say as opposed to my inner wisdom my inner guidance. And once I made that shift of creating the habit, it was not something I was able to do in a day. It's an ongoing consistent practice that I'm engaging in today of knowing the difference between the voices of my inner shit talker and my inner wisdom and listening to it, hearing it and then trusting as a guide, my movement, my choices forward. So I wrote a book called Making Peace with Your Inner Shit Talker. And I haven't like realized that. I, you know, I didn't tell anybody about it yet. I'm in the process of publishers and I created the 90 day program is inside of the book. So I can just take this from the book, offer it. So starting on August 7, I'm offering a accountability space for people because I've noticed like I can send out this 90 day program as much as I want to but like having a date and having other people who are doing it with you really helps. So I won't have the discipline to do this kind of work myself so I find that accountability spaces are really valuable. And so it's 13 weeks, 90 days, and it's $250 or pay what you can. So I don't want it to be something that, you know, somebody who's struggling with their inner shit talker feels that they can, you know, submit can't provide $250 investments in 13 weeks, but I don't want to limit or prevent anyone from engaging in this work and receiving the support for financial reasons and so more info is on our spirit uncensored.org website on how to register and receive a copy of the program. When you put in the chat so that I put all of that shit out. I was thinking about that because, I mean, it sucks whenever you want the value that you put into something, you know, and, and you know what a program is worth. But man fucking inflation is real and I don't have a job, you know what I mean, everything so damn expensive now. But I do want to tell you this, if you and I have no doubt that you can get picked up by a traditional publishing house if you pursue that. I have no doubt, but if it becomes a little too out of your emotional capacity to deal with for a little bit once you start that process. I have self published all of my books so I'm like a master at it and can totally help you. I appreciate that very much I felt like, you know, it's my backup plan I want to focus on the traditional publishing route first and I've got great rights. And I didn't have the emotional I just couldn't like it was too overwhelming. I was like, maybe later, but I don't I didn't have the heart for rejection, especially because my first book was my personal story. And so I was like, well, I'm doing that for me. And so we'll just have to see and but now like the further along I get into putting my shit out there. I'm like, and also I'm pretty okay with people rejecting me now in this area because I'm like, I'm either for you or I'm not let's not spend time arguing about it you just move on quietly please you don't need to announce your departure we are not at a fucking airport. You just do you be, but I don't need to hear about it. The piece that I've made with my inner shit talker has helped me a lot with rejection. I definitely used to take it personally super. And what I've really learned is that like whatever is for me is for me, like what you're saying about, you know, the rejection is that anytime I'm rejected, that means that that's not the right creative partner and that's not the right. And it's really nice. For sure. And I appreciate having learned and it doesn't even feel like reframing like, you know that the story I just kind of shared briefly about ending up as a creative executive. I had applied for a job at Oprah Winfrey's network six months before that and I was devastated by not having gotten that job and I got an opportunity to get to know the person who ended up with that job. And, you know, I ended up as an executive within less than a year of having been hired at juvie and there was, there was not a path for executive from the Oprah Winfrey network with that person in particular. And when we shared our about our experiences, it was so clear to me that juvie was the absolute right place for me so it was so nice to have a conversation and really see the job I didn't get and end up in the right place six months later. And just know, like, yeah, I was so sure that was where I was supposed to be and I was devastated. And some, like, you know, handles you a little bit too, but, but also you're just like, all right, I'm sorry, like, I guess I needed one more lesson in how I don't actually know everything. Sure, the evidence that I needed to trust the universe and trust in the environment. Well, it's funny that you say that because today the little things have rubbed me the wrong way. And, you know, when you surround yourself your whole life with emotionally unavailable people. And you put yourself in a position to pretty much only accommodate everyone around you. You don't land in a spot that feels super supported, you know, and my support network is so fucking limited. And I guess I'm like, sometimes I'm just really hit with that, like, my son is moving home this weekend and we literally have us to move him while I have a funeral to be at in Lawton. So it's like a little too much today. And I'm like, man, if I didn't have a single problem asking people for help, I still wouldn't know who the fuck to ask for help, because I can think of one couple. But I have this problem when I know that people don't have good boundaries. And I know that they say yes to shit that they don't want to do all the time. I can't, I don't trust them then I can't ask you for something and know that it's like not going to create some weird resentment. And even though it's not my place to feel responsible for that or anything. I just, it's just a feeling of unsafety. Like, I don't, I don't trust you if I know that you don't have good boundaries because you're lying to people when you say yes I can do that when you didn't have the time, energy or resources to do it. So that being said, I let it take me down a little pity party for about five minutes earlier. And, you know, just the whole what the fuck are we even doing like, you know, nothing I'm doing is making money, nothing. And school money runs out like at the end of this month, I'd no longer get a paycheck and, you know, up till now and most days, 99% of the time I have the utmost faith that I am doing exactly what the fuck I'm supposed to do. And we'll, it's taking me down a path and that path will open up even more opportunities and faith, right, and all that. But then, man, fuck the doubt comes in whenever you're like, yes. Well, so I've been in real patient and in my head, I've always thought August would be the time because my money goes away then and I, the feeling I've always had was it was just kind of like that money goes away and then the next step was just going to be the next money. You know, like that it was just going to be fine. And I, I don't not have that feeling, but I also don't have any fucking evidence, getting a little tired of it. So it's funny that you talked about faith and timing because I do believe in divine timing a lot, but I need the divine timing to be just a smidge closer to the timing that I would prefer, you know, I do. And I feel like one of the things I've learned about these circumstances is as you're talking about with this concept of faith is that, like, to be somebody who believes in it means that we have to be challenged by those beliefs every once in a while, but nothing but challenges. I hear you. I hear you. Yeah. I'm just being dramatic. I just, you know, it's, it's, it is uncomfortable. And at the same time, like right now, as of today, you get to know that your needs are being met as you're asking those questions around like, where's my support system. I don't feel like I've got a clear support system, especially like, I hear you with what you just said about the lack of clear boundaries is something that I've experienced more in Oklahoma than anywhere I've ever been. Um, the, the, um, inauthentic. Yes. Yes, it's like a cultural value. People. And this is, this is very strongly encouraged in the churches here in Oklahoma. I'm not playing. I'm not surprised. The number one value in the churches in Oklahoma. And it doesn't matter. We were, I was talking to my husband about this. It doesn't matter if it's Baptist Lutheran. It is all about fucking servitude to your own demise at all times. I don't, I don't, I've never lived anywhere else that was Bible delt beyond Oklahoma, but this, this concept of saying yes to something that you have no intention of following through in any way. Or even then just that they do it. And it ends up being like so tense and shit because they're harboring resentment. Yeah, I don't want to. Or whatever it may be. And it's a cultural value. So I think, you know, one of the things that we're finding is what divine timing often means is that when we're in a culture where the norm is something. And we identify the fact that this norm is destructive to who we are that you are this, this voice that's been perfectly placed and you're using your voice. I think, you know, maybe in regards to the best ways to get your voice out there and the best ways to attract clients or whatever it may be is a journey that you are currently on and that experience of faith. Like you mentioned your friends. Your friends are the people who hire you. The people who hire you are the clients that are out in the world that that needs this kind of thing. And so identifying the best way and it looks like you've got tons of content like you made lots and lots of episodes. You have all of this content to use and post and market. And it's just a way of figuring out the best way to market the clients that you can best serve and being somebody who's able to identify this one specific challenge of what it means to be an Oklahoma like you live in Oklahoma. You know what it's like to live in a world of inauthentic gases and it feels as if you have been divinely appointed to help create a shift in the cultural consciousness of your own community and you just haven't identified the best way forward but spirituality knows and spirit will make that way clear for you. Well, and that's why I'm trying. You know, I am pretty socially awkward in terms of like this I can do all day with anyone. This is this is what feeds me. But if I were to meet you in a room, you would have to come talk to me first like I cannot. But I'm not going to say cannot. I do sometimes fake it till I make it whatever but most of the time I just don't even try. But if you come to me. Great. We're going to have this type of conversation or I'll just be sweet and listen to the small talk to that's fine. I don't like to enter or exit conversations. It's both are very weird for me. But I've been like, okay, if my quest is supposed to be to identify friendships or just relationships that deviate from the type of past relationships. What the fat and like I've been talking to Diana so much about like going to the center or whatever and I'm like, I just, I can't man. I can't yet because there's people there. And I just, I was really nervous. She had to really talk me down because I was like, I can't do ceremony or any like it's all very fucking triggering if it feels like church. I can't do it. She was like, well, you know, she's just like, I mean, and I respect that, but it's not like that. I promise. And I'm like, okay, I mean, I believe you because she has the same shit I have. So I'm going to believe her, but I'm like, okay, opening up publicly about my spiritual journey. That's been the call for the last couple weeks where I'm like, all right, I'll fucking hear you where that's the direction I'm supposed to go very authentically very publicly and it's hard for me in Oklahoma. Like, I didn't even want to tell people I read tarot, you know, and so it's not like I'm doing crazy shit in my beliefs. But like, if my grandma were alive, she sure the hell would be, you know, rebukin demons out of me. So, you know, potato potato in my world. What I'm doing is just fine. I'm just living in a light, you know, but if it's not Jesus is light in Oklahoma, you can be shunned pretty quick. And I don't worry about cancel culture because there is a space for the things that like you and I believe in here in Oklahoma. But I've just decided I'm not going to try to grow an audience that doesn't accept that. And so I think I had to start opening up a little bit more. And that's how I'm going to find my people is going more towards this direction, but it's all very like nerve wracking because I don't have a lot of good experiences with any kind of relationship, you know. Well, I am the assistant minister at the United Life Center for spiritual living here. It's literally where I am talking to you from right now is within my office, and I hosted events on Sundays at 1230 called spiritual AF. That is designed for people just like you who don't like that feel of church that the Sunday morning feel even like you talked about getting up. Well, there's no I wear shorts and stuff usually on stage t shirts. I try to like make it as disarming as possible. But there are some people who like the idea of sitting in a pew and like listening to something happening is not for them and you're making these faces in force being forcing that so spiritually F was created as that place that doesn't have the ceremony that's all about interacting like spiritual connection and like last week we had somebody talking about African traditions, traditional religions and she said a lot of the things that you just said about her experience of, you know, her spiritual connection and the challenges that she has with her family and what a big deal it was for her to say that not only was she going to church but that she was presenting for us last week, and this week we've got Clarissa Castillo who owns Molly's tamales which you might have had in the collective if you've ever been there. All right, like her her her tamales her food is is next level. And so I love that we get to like sell food to support her business she's a very speaking to and a lot of what you're saying I think you know you'd really vibe with the people who are there so the space already exists in Oklahoma City. You now have met me right is a friendly face and it's designed so that you don't have to have that awkward situation of like entering a conversation or speaking up or even you know feeling like you're not. It's designed for it to be like you participate as much or as little as you want you get to warm up to it. Before you want to talk if I even say like there's some people who just want to have their headphones on and like lay down in a corner like you just want to be around the energy. Spiritually after reason, but to your point about Oklahoma City, we put spiritual a F on the marquee in front of the design and the front of the building and somebody tore down all the letters from spiritual a F and made it say as if. So days at 1230 like and we to your point like there, there is resistance, but there's definitely a lot of people like you for the spaces for community so I'm grateful that we're doing that here. I'm grateful just to affirm what you guys are doing because I don't feel lost at all on my on my journey. I feel just fine, where I'm wanting is connection and I do want to learn more, you know, and grow more in this area. But safely, you know, I just I require a lot for safety just because of my history of trauma. So I don't love new situations, but it does sound very up my alley. I just have to, you know, I just needed to know first like, because I cannot, I cannot do anything church related. But yeah, so sorry. I mean, there's no reason he sorry I create bad ass spiritual playgrounds for a reason. Nothing I do ever feels like church, but like I'll show you know I'm the assistant minister of this organization operated in this more traditional way. And I I'm grateful for the fact that they let me cross on stage and wear shorts and a t shirt and try to take my my title for me or say that this isn't appropriate. Like I've only been celebrated and encouraged. Yeah, you are definitely at the right place. And, you know, I guess just a circle back for one second. It's so funny because your whole life really could have been so much different in this way, like the lack of acceptance and whatever from the people that you've had, you know, kind of be in your inner circle. Yeah, because your parents could have been real dicks and they could have been, you know, and, and the other people that you've come across like you're just your fucking path is so divine that it's like so obvious, you know what I mean. I do, I will note like despite the fact that my parents aren't dicks. They were not prepared to raised a mixed race child and you wasn't in the 80s baby no exactly not really but the 80s were a fucking terrible time for that. So I don't blame them for any of those things we've had a lot of these conversations after the fact around like, you know, how come we never talked about this how come we never talked about that and they were both in this like I just didn't think of it. We're just trying to live. We're just trying to live. My, my brother is my mom had my brother with, with another black man so my brother didn't have that same and what was interesting you asking me that question is my brother's 10 years older than me. And as a child, we never had this conversation like he was never like I have a different dad. We did not mix like that was not we didn't have a conversation, but I knew inherently, not just based it wasn't like that my father treated him any kind of way, but it was that there was something about my brother when he didn't seem like he was struggling with his identity at all. And as a baby, it was something that I knew. Well, I was the only mixed race person I knew I didn't meet another mixed race person until I was nine and I'm telling you, right in Chicago. I went to day camp. Really weren't different shit. I went to day camp in Evanston, Illinois and Evanston is known as one of the more racially diverse, not even one of the like the most racially diverse ever. So it makes sense that the first mixed race person I ever met was at nine years old at this day camp. Just one. I didn't meet another one so I was like 16, 17, you know, like I can count who they were and when they still remember. And it would suck if you didn't like them because you have to like like this is your camaraderie like we're bonding but like you're annoying. I didn't even get to get that far because it really was like, you know, we and that other person had not known what it was like to have these kinds of conversations with somebody else are age. And so that experience of like just being knowing for there to be someone who knows what I'm experiencing and how rare it was to find that. There was this like this connection that automatically took place and, and when I was Oklahoma, I started going like my first, like place of community is this bar called alibis, which is reopening super soon. That there were four five mixed race people, women of color or people born as female mixed race at this bar that and sometimes like all five of us would be at the bar at the same time. And I was like, no part like there's nowhere else in the world I've ever been where there'd be four other things people, aside, you know, at birth, all in one room at the same time without it being like a convention or an email, you know, something you signed up for. Are there gonna be mixed race people there? Okay, I got stuck up to go still trying to get a little identity. I don't know. Sure, sure. I love it. Well, did you, did you feel any weirdness off of your brother because like to your point about the friendships that you made those couple, you don't have a fucking vocabulary to even like it is so I can see where you're not like in five minutes, tell me the worst things that you've experienced as a mixed race child, you know, because you're not even that's not even you're not understanding that that's why you don't, you know, you're having trouble figuring out your identity you're unable to kind of put the pieces together but did you feel any struggle between you and your brother? I appreciate you asking that so much and especially noting how in the 80s that language wasn't around. I discovered Mariah Carey at nine years old and I discover her like her literal, her first single came out when I was nine years old and I was obsessed with the song Vision of Love before I even knew Mariah was mixed race. It happened to rent a video from Blockbuster like my mom noted that there was a video about Mariah Carey and Blockbuster so we rented it and I watched it and Mariah gave me that language. We got the voice. Yes, yes, so you know I was a Whitney fan before her so like it made sense Mariah just made sense and for her to actually talk about how it felt to be a mixed race and use the language. She's been called mixed before mixed race was not a thing by racial was not a thing. And so having language and hearing somebody who was a grown up, you know, she was 20 at the when I was nine she was gorgeous and talented. So, and you know as a kid too like I had no way of knowing Mariah's career would have the longevity that it has now like performing in Vegas right now. So like to have this like connection with somebody at nine years old and for me to be 43 and this woman to still be performing and making new music she's got this great remix with Ariana Grande called yes, yes and I love it. It is so good. And it's basically like I am my own fucking best friend like you would I'm sure you would love it. So I'll be downloading that shit. She's still like making music that inspires me so like the question about my brother like I actually, I haven't had any zero zero issues with my brother. These have been challenges around my black identity have been with my white family and all of my challenges with my lesbian identity has been with my black family. So, I have my fair share of identity challenges. And you said, you know, well let's bump that up a notch. My dad, I got to make sure I'm fighting. It's wild too because like you know like I'm having these challenges with my dad and I really felt like growing up as a child like none of my challenges with my father were racially driven. Or even like the end of my their marriage of my parents marriage they got divorced when I was 18. None of it had anything to do with race. My dad moved to Thailand like I want to say around 2010 maybe. And since he's been living overseas like he's done this like deep dive into like Q and on and just says like anti black lives matter, you know like so we've been having like really challenging conversations and my dad's family. His brothers and brothers and sister had a like when I was born. Well, I should say this that when my parents got married, his his family sat shiva for him declaring him dead because he had married a black woman. That's how serious the racism ran at that time. When I was born. That that Jewish people would beat that fucking racist right it was it was a thing and my aunt like told me the story about like when my birth announcement came in the mail how she threw it away. And what happened which shifted everything was when I was two years old. My grandmother was dying. And she said she made a decision to forgive my dad and to bring the family back together. Because I was too. And I remember like the fact that I even remember this like I ask these questions as a two year old of like where has she been I was like. Right. And so, and they said and it was true though like she's she lives in California. So she's she's in Illinois right now visiting so like. Okay, like but they were going to be like she's racist and that's why we haven't you don't say that year old you know. And so because I remember like specifically going and I have this like memory of my cousin six months old in this little like carrier thing so like the fact that I have this just very clear memory. And I'm a year and a half older than him which is how I know I was too. And you know I remember like being in the living room and like feeling the energy of like an awkward family connection. But it didn't feel odd to me one because my little two year old brain how advanced could I have processed? You don't even know about tension and awkwardness. You're just like. For sure. But I felt it. Yeah, you're like I mean they're not active right but I'm sure it's fine. And nobody said anything like as a child growing up they weren't like FYI these people used to be really racist and FYI the fact that they let your mother stay in the room at this time. It was a really big deal. I had no flu. So my father like sat me down and told me all of this when I was 17 which is a very appropriate age to be telling your kid hey FYI they used to be racist. And at that point in my life like there's been very super small things like my my aunt was like you've got to meet this guy Keith you're really going to love Keith he's so great and I'm like what is it about Keith that's like. There she thinks that I'm the right person to be meeting him and keep his laugh and I was like. So like this tiny little microaggressions okay you know little bit you know but you know I always felt welcome and love. But just like a little crazy kind of that you can make that big of a switch. Yeah for sure and so like they we've had some like really healing conversations within the last five years like social media I learned a lot about their beliefs. Systems and and it's driven a wedge between me and my uncles to my uncles, one of them in particular like just literally uses the words hate to describe how he feels about me. And are you serious because of your race. Well is your lesbian. What's wild about it is that him and I had a conversation we had a I would output this link in your chat to. Yeah. We did we had a conversation on on like a streaming conversation on zoom that other people were invited to about what was happening and you we call it America unity and civility and had a conversation from our different political perspectives about you know what was going on. And I thought like for me like having the black side and my white side together have a conversation about like politics, never had happened before. My black side walked away very, very good. Say it again. It's a probably for a reason. Oh yeah that's what I'm saying my black side walked away really wounded they witnessed the experience of racism like back at the forefront when they when my when his family didn't accept my mom so they had they experienced all that. And then they are seeing racism 2.0 21st century racism here and now and level shit honestly. I mean you know it isn't you know like it's it is challenging. I wouldn't call it next level because you know what we're talking about in the 80s is that my white family wouldn't even be in the room with my mom where today they they're like I love black people here's a list of all of the black people that I love. Clearly I'm not racist because of because of that. And that's where they're operating from so it is it is a next level version. I was like grandma dude she was such a racist bitch but like would get so pissed if you're like but grandma you're racist. She's like I fucking am not and I'm like okay what what do you call what can you tell me the word you'd use for I will just own you if you bring a black person home. Because I call that racist and then she would say other things. I'm not going to repeat obviously but some of the slurs she would think we're hilarious and I mean I have to strike her fucking down with my voice in front of God and everybody when she thought it was okay to say something like that in front of my oldest kid. I was like two and I was like okay I'm not fucking raising him like that so do not ever talk like that again in front of my children because I'm not racist my children are not going to grow up in a racist household. So if you want to be a part of our lives you better get your shit together. I appreciate you being somebody that does that not everybody can. I was probably you know rebellion a little bit but I was also in the school social work by then I think so you know I was at least I was gaining some momentum in my ability to advocate at least for others if I could not advocate for myself which I you know took years to get to but I was like okay I do have a voice and I can use it to help other people so that's you know where I started and Bryson my son and I were talking about this the other day. I'm being pretty anti racist and how grateful he is because he grew up in the Putnam city school district because that's where we lived forever. And he's like yeah I can't really I meet people from some of those like small suburbs and I'm just like what did your teachers teach you because it's like they don't have anything of substance to talk about. Well sorry honey but you know I'm going to take just a smidge of credit because I remember buying you all them damn Martin Luther King rose apart books like I didn't know what the fuck I was doing because. Well, I can't think of a single black person that was around me at the time like except for maybe people that I went to college with but even then sadly even in the school social work. And it's for diversity but it really you know wasn't all that diverse. And so I'm just doing like I'm like I'm a by the books. Let's hear stories of amazing people in history that's all I've got for you at two years old Bryce. But he's like I am glad that you did that. Yes and I appreciate the fact that you you you commented on the the Barton Luther King Rosa Parks books because like that's essentially what black history education was for for all of us. And so I don't care what you know I can name that so you had to have like you know either take an African American history class which I never have or have a parent that was like really dedicated to ensuring that you knew and I didn't grow up with a parent that like that made sure that I was learning about black history beyond Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King. I've been engaged in a lot of this education like really for me it's been post 2020. When we started having a conversation about race collectively as a country and I got to see how racist the people around me were like I didn't know, you know there were so many people. And you have an event. Yeah, that you people are divided and you have to pick a side and you start to see how many fucking people are picking the other side you're like damn why y'all even my friend. Well, it wasn't even so much as picking sides as just beliefs that that were were just the opportunity hadn't presented themselves to be. That's a fair statement. So they did so I got to learn things about people around me that that was really uncomfortable and I was looking for wisdom and guidance and education. And I went to my bookshelf and realized just how how my personal library was lacking in diversity and you mentioned this earlier like this experience of making peace with my wheelchair talker. The shame that I experienced of recognizing that at that moment I was 39 years old and my library was filled with white men that was just like what the fuck is wrong with me. And, and I got to look at it and the experience of healing it is something that that's still ongoing that four years later. In this work the, it was really hard for me to learn and, and heal within the first few months I really did like some deep therapy type things I wasn't a lot of different support spaces and really like really dug in and, you know, good year or two later I was able to start to start reading these things because I would read a sentence of something and it would just unravel me all the way and now I'm in a place where I can finish a finish a chapter. Like, you know, finishing entire books I've been reading elyssons and the invisible man for like the good two years now. I don't know where I'm going. I'm going. Malcolm X is auto but Malcolm X is biography by Alex Haley. So it's one of those that like a sentence of that just like revealing so much. Like, sit with it. Yeah, I can, that's been it's so refreshing to talk to people who kind of like get me in that way because I mean I don't know if you how much you've listened but in the earlier episodes. I was really fucking transforming very rapidly like every day I was completely changing from even the day before because I would have a new shift in my paradigm and a totally new reality every fucking day to where it got to where I was like. Okay, on one on one hand, I believe that all of this is happening fast to get me to where I need to go because the rewards are going to be fast, you know, like it's like if I'm on this path, this is how it's got to go and I got to get rid of all the toxic shit before I get there. And then the other side of me is like, am I schizophrenic because like none of this shit is anything to anybody I know besides Diana, you know, well, more and more people are about it than I even thought but like they're like me to where we're like, you're not going like crucify me. Are you well and you know, I don't want to get off on a tangent with this but I used to be kind of anti feminism I'm embarrassed to say that but I had a very different belief of what that was. And mostly I felt like, I guess I probably felt like what I was doing in my current life at home mom blah blah blah, probably was like not affirmed by feminism, that perception I had. And I just and I thought it was a militant I hate men thing, you know, I was pretty closed off to even like exploring it whatever I think name and I think the biggest reason was and, and I don't know if I have changed a ton in this way. But I would think like, but I didn't, I have never identified my strength and survival coming from me as a woman, like I was not like, or even as a feminine, like whatever I was just like, I mean I was a badass but that to me it didn't have necessarily anything to do with being born a female but then the way I've probably shifted the most in any of that area was there is a lot of internalized misogyny. And I think that was probably the pinnacle of fuck this religion because you and I could never, could you imagine in this present day being in front of whatever you want to call congregation whatever right and talking about whether or not you should fuck somebody if they're on their period. And that being a religious cause, I was raised very explicit conversations conversations around whether or not you are to be touched at all when you're on your period. And I'm like, let me get this fucking shit straight, you're telling me, anyone fucking cares, if I fuck somebody when I'm on my period I'm sorry I'm out on that bullshit I'm out on that bullshit. It's things like that over and over and honestly this is kind of embarrassing to say but I think it took watching the crucibles and like live action because my damn son was in fucking theater. And, you know, Choctaw, that's not where he went but they do, they do fucking theater like hardcore okay so when we were at a one up one at competition they couldn't watch that one because of the schedule so I was like I'm a watch you know and I was like good fucking. I never I never knew anything I really have never even knew knew that much about the Salem witch trials because I did not pay one ounce of fucking attention from elementary through high school like I graduated with a 1.75 Okay, trauma brain was like so we're gonna try to live. And also just maybe try not to drop out like that that's probably our goals and if we can graduate that's fine. But watching the crucible that really changed my perspective because I'm like God, they fucking pit these women against each other to lie just to get like something off of them and blah blah blah. That was the beginning of it wasn't the beginning of my end of church I was already out but I what it really I started to like have this ancestral pool almost like to learn more and it's not like I've done a deep dive or anything it did change me and and that shirt that says or there's a saying I have a shirt but it's like they weren't burning witches they were burning women and I'm like oh y'all you don't even get it they really were those motherfuckers whether they were witches or not whatever like because they deviated from that sex on their period oh my god let's burn them you know like yes so all of that to say it's all been any social issue has I was raised by a very white woman a very racist white woman and somebody who fucking hated herself more than she could ever hate anybody else and she put that hate on to everybody you know and so I was a person who would say the ignorant shit about black lives matter the first round you know like where because I did not get it I did they weren't saying it in a way that I could hear it yet because I felt like it was to create more of a division that was honestly my perception I don't hate anybody for I hate lots of people I'm not going to write about but it has nothing to do with race or sexual orientation okay but like I don't that's not who I am I would never so it was a very confusing time because I'm like I'm fighting with people I love and I don't know why and I don't know why I felt so misunderstood too because I'm like I'm open I want to learn about this but I'm being shut down the first second that I say something which I also understand because if you trigger the fuck out of me we're going in the conversation I think I'm not going to be respectful anyway you know but the second round was the first time I heard we're not saying only black people matter I'm saying black people matter too and I'm like okay I fucking hear you now okay I am so sorry I am so fucking sorry that I was a part of that problem because that's so sad to me that you're having to even have a cause to say we matter just a fucking little bit here and if I feel that way as a white lady with pretty privilege and all the privilege that I have and I'm feeling non-stop on the periphery of my relationships and isolated and lonely and misunderstood I can't fucking imagine actual real life bullshit associated with any of that and your life being in danger too I mean especially in Oklahoma let's not fucking play down yes for sure for sure especially you know like the drag shows being vandalized when we're just advertising that it's happening you know like can honestly say for me I haven't experienced significant as significant challenges in Oklahoma as I have in other places which is why people would think Chicago and LA like that's where I came from before I moved here that those would be the places I mean I've had challenges and you know even like the concept of police interactions which I've got plenty of stories I'm not going to get into like you know my very first job my boss told me in my first job that slavery should have never been abolished and to be at work and be told that the person who not so you know signs my paycheck is saying that I don't have more to be at work I was very first job of like entering into the workforce like it's like I didn't even see it as traumatizing because like when it was my first experience as an adult I dealt with so much racism and so much ignorance by that time in my life that like I was concerned by my safety in the sense that this man said this to me in a movie vehicle in the middle of nowhere Iowa like I was concerned that he was saying this to me like on these roads that you know I was just like do I need to open my door and roll out of this vehicle at 60 miles an hour like God I can't even imagine that you know but like no part of me you know so I was like just ripping the door on the way to back to the office like just hoping that I was going to make it and I did and it was just a philosophical conversation about slavery and why it should still exist versus me and my job slavery should have never been abolished you like the fuck what's up? I mean I appreciate the fact that you mentioned the impact that the crucible had on you and that concept of story being the thing that really opens our eyes to what's going on in our world is what's always driven me to story and even though I haven't you know I got to the executive level but as a writer haven't broken through to getting staff or anything I've written actually make it to air but the healing experience of utilizing this art form and knowing that this is this is I'm doing my best as we talked about we talked about divine time you're not out of trust that if I ever meant to be a TV writer screenwriter that the situation materializes in the perfect way the perfect time and I'm just believing I'm writing and allowing myself to be guided no doubt that within two years you're going to be all over everything I have zero doubt but it is nice to know that even with all those connections you have roadblocks to you know I have none I've got none connections and I mean that's not true but nobody nobody in that vein but also I've always had a problem with like I don't want to like reach out to people I haven't talked to in a long time to ask them for something and then also I don't like to ask for help at all so it's very difficult for me to get on Facebook and be like what these challenges do is they help you identify the best ways to communicate who you are to people who don't know who you are true that well and I mean honestly you're so fucking right when you said that's not like who's gonna buy your shit like that's not and they're not even who I'm trying to reach I mean I would love I would love love love if the people who knew me on any level listened and joined on this movement because I don't just want us to become more emotionally available I want us to fucking pursue our passions and ourselves and I believe that a group of people heading in the direction that says joy and purpose and passion all together we make a big fucking difference because we have a network now first of all of people doing what they love nothing they do feels like work because honestly most of the time I'm kind of chained to a chair these days but you know some of that's because I can't afford to pay somebody to help me with all these little things that I'm doing and that's become more manageable now anyway but it doesn't really bother me except for in the physical sense at the end of the day I can tell like I need to move you know things like that but most of what I'm doing feels so good all the time I just I just need my pocketbook to feel a little good you know I do I love it I have a lot of jobs and the beauty of having so many jobs is that most of them are completely self-guided I decide how many hours I work and which hours I work and it's all work that feeds me and the few job I have one job in particular that expects me to be somewhere at a specific time and it's one to two shifts a week and every other shift is optional because I'm a floater and what that job is is I'm working it's called a youth care coordinator at CSU services which is a LGBT+ program in each other so I'm saying all this to say that I got a run okay well I'm gonna definitely let me copy this really quick from the chat and I appreciate you so much thank you so much for meeting with me today yeah I had fun with it I'm glad that we got an opportunity to meet in this kind of contact it's my favorite way to meet someone for the first time recording a podcast like to me that's the coolest thing ever yeah I love it because I don't know I get to ask you exactly what I want to ask instead of like little details I don't give a shit about you know I slept again I would love to if you want to sign up again it would make my heart happy but I would love to hang out sometime and I'm gonna you know maybe I'll make a friend join me for the spiritual AF shit I don't know we'll see okay well I'm gonna let her know that I'm in a better mood. I'm here for that. I love a great rest of your day. Thanks you too. Bye bye hey hey hey what do you say listen if you want to support the show please rate like and share from whichever platform you're listening on please also like comment and share on any social media posts that you see for me on Instagram or Facebook or TikTok please follow the podcast Facebook emotionally unavailable podcast you can shop my foot online store or schedule a one-on-one with me emotionally unavailable podcast.org I'm offering what I'm calling non-traditional counseling astrology readings and other woo-woo stuff and self-policing services and thank you so much for listening to the emotionally unavailable podcast Okay, I hope that you liked that episode with me and Casey. Here is the information that I want to make sure you guys have. So if you're interested in the making piece with your inner shit talker program, you can go to www.spirituncensor.org/making-piece-with-your-inner-shit-talker. And then there is America, Unity and Civility, which is a YouTube video that they recommended to us. So that's... there's no way to give that. So I will make sure that these links are posted in the episode notes as well as on Facebook so that you can find those. Casey's making piece with your inner shit talker program sounds amazing. So I'm really hoping maybe for some sort of future collaboration with that. So anyways, again, I hope you enjoyed this episode. Give Casey a shout out, follow on social media. I know they would really appreciate that. And until next time, that's all. Just keep swimming.