Jane Doe provides my cryin' ass some therapy in today's episode. Thank you for listening. Rest in peace to Logan Walker. <3
Emotionally Unavailable
Episode 36: Loss (Anonymously Unavailable with Jane Doe Episode 7)
because I think I'll be so much less afraid of loss at all times. Like, that's, you know. Oh, that was a drop in the bucket of the things that happened while we were recording, honey. That was nothing, but thank you. That's fine. Okay. Why am I spending so much time believing wholeheartedly that people are literally going to leave my house and call as many people as they can. People in my house is playing as fuck. Shut the fuck up. [Music] Welcome to Emotionally Unavailable, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of emotional availability and intimacy. I'm your host, Melissa Hepner, and I can't tell you how excited I am to have you join me on this journey of self-discovery and connection. Whether you're navigating the complexities of relationships or exploring your own emotional landscape, this podcast is here to inspire, empower, and entertain. So get cozy and let's explore the depths of human emotions together. Hi guys. Welcome back to anonymously Unavailable with Jane Doe. Today we are discussing some of our wounding. Really overall, I guess the theme is still just the shift within ourselves. I wanted to take a minute. A friend of mine heard the story that I told in the last episode and expressed, you know, that it made him feel angry and he didn't really know what to do with it. And another friend said something similar, a female friend, and I didn't consider that, guys. And he said, "Yeah, you can be warned that there's a trigger and still, like basically, said you still don't know what to do when you're triggered." So when I give a trigger warning from now on, I would encourage you to decide in that moment to stay present as much as possible and to understand that if you are triggered, what's happening is that you're being transported to a memory, either just in the physical sense or physically, emotionally, and visually, like, if you're a person who can visualize memories like that, then you're going to be picturing that. If you discover that you have disassociated off into a trigger and you're just feeling off when you come back, I mean, if you are a person who can control your triggers in any way, then, you know, just lovingly encourage yourself to come back to the present. And this is, I'm going to talk to myself the way I am encouraging you to talk to yourself. So if I discovered that something is triggering me and changing the way I feel emotionally, which causes physical changes as well, immediately I say, "Oh, okay, I need to come back to the present. Melissa, the person who's upset right now is not the current version of you. You know, you are good. You are safe. You are worthy. You are valuable. You are loved. Your contribution to the world matters. You're a good friend." And I just affirm myself. And then when this current self is calmer, then I go to the to the person who originally received that wound and I say, "Hey, we're here. We're good, okay? We made it. We made it and you're safe and you are so strong." And then I honest to God, just like if I'm still feeling it, I try to turn on music to reflect what I'm needing in them. And there are metronome apps just for beats that you can get. Like 60 beats per minute is what you need when you're down. And below 60 beats per minute is what you need when you're up. Please take care of yourself. If I give a trigger warning and for what the triggers could be, please understand that you can be triggered i.e. transported back to a very painful memory. And if you don't know what to do with that, you feel like shit afterwards. And you guys are hurting for this child version of me and you are hurting for the child version of you, but you're not doing either of us any good by doing that. When I say that, I mean, if you have any sort of control over your triggers, when you start to wander, you need to bring it back. Skip the episode. Start skipping 15 seconds if it's too much, okay? I'm sure I'm going to come up with more stuff to help you guys out with that too. So thank you, friend, for pointing that out to me. And the episode itself is kind of long. So I kind of want the overarching message because we touched on this in this episode to be lost. So there you could, me talking about loss could really trigger you to start to feel your own losses if that is something that has been kind of shoved away for a long time. So you know, just take the episode slow. If you need to, I think you guys need a little recovery period. So I'm not going to tell any more sad stories in this intro because I kind of tell a little bit of a sad story in the episode. But anyways, I just wanted to give you that information because I did feel guilty like, okay, honey, you're in LCSW, you do have a little more liability. And to just say, trigger warning. Now I feel like those were flippant and uncaring, but I'm not going to overthink it. So found out today that I have lost a friend and it was a casual friend. It wasn't, I didn't know Logan that well. We worked together for a couple of years. And for the first half of our first year together, we had morning car duty together. And y'all, no, I'm just so irreverent. And he was pretty irreverent. So, but I made him laugh so hard. And like you laughing at my jokes is my love language. It kills me when people don't think I'm funny. So he loved my jokes. So anyway, I made a Facebook post about it. I'm sure you saw it, but I just want to acknowledge him one less time out loud that I'm so happy that we had the fun times that we had. And I'm happy to know that he's not suffering. And is that peace? So thank you, Logan, for your friendship. I appreciate you. And I'm going to go because it's a pretty long episode. And I thank you guys so much. I appreciate you. There's a full moon and Capricorn on Sunday morning at 5 55 a.m. I will talk more about that in the closing. So just skip today's closer after the main episode. If you don't want to hear astrology talk, okay? Because I got big steps to tell you. Okay guys, hope you enjoy anonymously unavailable with Jango. I am finally starting to feel better. And it's not. So I've been playing Pokemon all day. How fun. It's really hot, but I walked like, I don't know, eight miles or something to go. No walking pneumonia up in here. The very end will kind of touch on the basics of what we're going to be doing for the book group. I finally just opened that a few minutes. I did like the checklist on abandonment. I was like, Oh, okay, this is making sense. Why so many things have hit that wound. Yeah, I didn't even realize how expansive that really was. And it's so funny, it's the lost one. It's like, who's died or whatever? Like for me, like some people have died, but no, but you've lost your mom. You've lost your sister. You've lost your brother. If you do, if you count that, yeah, you do. In all the grief groups, they count shit like that too, because you've lost, regardless of whether or not they're dead, it's still a loss. Or if you've ever even really had it. Yep. And then that would go to rejection and abandonment too. Right. Well, when I was going through it, I was like, Oh, I was reading it. I finished. I read a bunch of it when I first got it last week. And then I finished it outside on the patio this morning with some coffee. And I'm like, Oh, I already do the assessment. I was like, this is going to be heavy. I cannot do this on the patio. But I know over there reading with me like, yeah, too, too vulnerable too much. Why is that? It's so funny in my quest to become emotionally available. There are things that have not gotten a ton easier yet. They've gotten a little easier. But like, today, perfect example, I'm holding Kendall and I'm in the living room. And I was like, honey, I want those kind of eye. And he's like, what? And I was like, Oh, no, it just looks so weird. So I said it like 75 times, because what I actually wanted was him to walk over to me and to take my dog and to check out what I was wanting him to see and all these things. He wasn't getting the hint. And finally, I said, I'm probably really just wanting you to kind of dress this for me without having to ask you, because you know, I fucking hate having to ask you to help me. And listen, I check myself every time and so many times I'm still not asking, dude, but I check myself. And wow, I feel so fucking unworthy to ask people for help. Like, that's the bottom line of it. I feel like I don't deserve help. And then I'm a fucking burden to everyone. I mean, that's just a lot of shame, I guess. But like, I don't want to ask for help, because then it's going to confirm to you that I'm too much. Because I'm hearing variations of I'm too fucking much my whole fucking life. That is so crazy to me. And I'm trying to like process that. So I will tell you, I'm the opposite. I don't mind asking for help, because in real life, I think I do like, I think I do more for other people. I'm not like a lot. I'm not too much. I'm very amenable. I'm nice to everybody. I pay my own way. I'm always like, and like, but to the point where it's like, not healthy independence, like it's for me to like actually want help from somebody else. Maybe that's like, I don't even. So if I do, I'm like, Oh, no, in my mind, it's like a bank account. And I've done these 32 things for you. So it's time for you to pay up. Yeah. And that's also not have that mindset, which I don't want to say as an assy thing. I feel like our relationship is comfortable enough to be able to say that to you. But that's probably something I used to think. But then I started to like reflect back. And that was something I really fucking hated about my grandma. So I've worked really hard to shift my mindset on that. But I guess to really clarify this, I think mostly anyone that I'm in a like intimate relationship with is who I'm afraid to ask for help because I don't want to be too much. But I don't like to ask other people like my friends for help because, well, so far in my life, it's been confirmed almost every time that I can't rely on anyone for help. So that's true too, which I totally agree with that. I feel that same way. And anytime we fight about stuff, I'm like, so clearly we're going to break up. Like literally every person I've ever loved has left me, like every single person, every single one. So, you know, you feel like that's your fault. Do you take responsibility for that? Like, are you is it a source of shame for you or no? For sure. For sure. I just wondered. Oh, for sure. I mean, especially because my work life and being around these people have these really strong deep families and like familial wealth and it's just like this whole thing. And people are always like, oh, well, what are you doing? Like, where's your mother? What are you doing for Mother's Day? I mean, your mom is so proud of you and blah, blah, blah. It's great. It's a strong independent woman and you're so beautiful. And isn't it like actually enough to think about me? Okay, it's so awful. But you can't say that to people because then they're like, Oh, gross, you're white trash, actually, you know, and so. And that fucking look of pity, you know what I'm talking about the you're so strong. You're that's when all that shit comes in. And you're like, I don't actually want to be strong. So that's actually not a good compliment anymore. I used to like that when I was like 20. I don't want to be strong. I want to be fucking nurtured. That's what I wanted to love me and take care of me and worry about if something's going to hurt my feelings. Yes. Like honestly, I think that's the piece I've been missing on this whole divine divine feminine energy is I'm so fucking ready to be held like that's for I've mastered fucking independence. I got that so far down. I I want to be vulnerable. And I want to cry and be held. And I want I know that my crazy the displays of it will be so much less and less and less the more comforted I am. And I'm ready for it. I'm so ready to be soft when I want to be soft and not walk around in this masculine energy all the time having to be the fucking alpha just to survive. I'm so open to new experiences with friends, with Brian, with anyone literally willing to provide me a little bit of fucking nurturing. Like so on this trip, I didn't get enough sleep the night before and I was a fucking psycho. And I mean, admittedly, I took every ounce of it out on Brian in a way that I'm I guess I'm still feeling pain over. Can't say it's all shame. I just hate that I hurt somebody like that. And I mean, at one point, I remember looking at his face and just being like, stop. You know what I mean? Like, you're hurting him so badly. Why are you fucking doing this? And I had no fucking control over it, dude. Like, I swear to God, I was identifying the shadows as they were popping up and then the rebel came up and said, I don't give a fuck. I'm so serious tonight. And I just leaned into that because it was the only control I had was to decide I didn't care if I was hurting everyone in my family by my behavior. You know what I mean? It was fucking awful and terrible. And you don't get to take that back when you hurt someone like that. And I kind of hate him for being a person who puts up with that bullshit. Because like, he shouldn't. It's not his fault that I'm fucking abusive when I'm mad. I mean, not physically, but I would be if he gave me an opportunity, I've had to tell him like, you can't be in my bubble. Or I would be, I would be physically abusive, too. The words that I say are so fucking mean, man. And I don't, I can say that I'm not going for the kill. Like, I'm not purposely like saying things, the word like, like, you know, every man wouldn't want to be told out of anger. Like, you have a small dick or, you know, like, I don't do shit like that. I don't try to make things personal. It's just a lot of like attacking his character. You know, and I'm not saying anything that I've done is right. It's just so hard because he's so fucking nice. But there's the anger is justified because I can say how many times he has fucking not taken my side. And it's a really big deal to me if somebody doesn't take my side when I feel like they should. And honestly, damn, apparently I need therapy today. But honestly, that's the recurring theme in my life is I don't feel like I have a team, like my side. I've never in my entire life felt like someone's going to take my side just because they fucking love me. And I don't know if this is unreasonable. But you know, like, even if I'm wrong, I feel like if you love me, you have my back in the best way that you can show up as your most authentic self, like not to bend your own values or whatever, like if I was being mean to Brian in front of you and you were uncomfortable with that, you know, maybe you would go take some space or something like that, which doesn't tell me you don't have my back just says this makes me uncomfortable, you know, but you're going to deal with that on your own thing. But you're not going to say it to me who's in a very dysregulated place and doesn't need anybody else to make me feel like a giant piece of shit in that moment. You know what I mean? I don't know. I think I would say something to you. But I think I would say it to only you. I think I would say something to only you. And my thing would be like, Hey, what is happening right now? Like, what is happening right now? What do you need? Like, you're having a hard time. What is happening? Like, we can figure this out? You know what I mean? Like, yeah, like, hey, are you okay? What are we doing? Yeah, exactly. Like you don't act away. I don't want to act that way. And you fucking need that. This isn't me making a choice to me to somebody. This is me in a very bad place. So what do I need? Do you think one person asked me that? No, they didn't. And either I needed to say more what I needed. But what I need is to feel chosen all the time. That's a big wound for me. And I'm not saying you have to agree with me, but you have to fucking love me. You know what I mean? Like, and I just do, I feel so alone in the abyss so fucking much because, you know, I really struggle sometimes with the idea that I'm only put in people's lives to help them. You know, I don't, I don't, I don't feel like I'm really a part of anybody else's thing ever, you know? And it's easy to be like, you're my person or whatever, but I don't actually feel like I'm anybody's person. Maybe now I'm starting to fill that with Brian, honestly, which is weird for me. Because, you know, for 15 years, that hasn't been the case. And I never felt like a single fucking priority to him. And we're in a weird shift with that where I don't even know how to accept the type of love he's trying to offer now. You know, like, it's a little weird and I'm adjusting. And I'm like, I mean, I had my heart set on getting a divorce in a few years. So like, it's weird. It's a total paradigm shift. And I'm leaving that in. He knows that. But yeah, so wow, that was really emotional. But, yeah, I just want, I just want somebody to take my side. And I don't think that's what you say to him. Maybe that's what you say is like, Hey, I like, it perpetuates it. And you think you're helping me, but it's like the enabling thing. You know, I mean, you're letting me act this way. And it makes me feel bad. So if you don't care about you, and you think that by just not saying anything and not rocking the bow, that you're showing me that you love me, you're actually showing me the opposite. So like, I need you to say like, whoa, you are real mad about this. Like, you're big mad. Like, let's stalk the car. Let's mean you go hug this out and like, figure this shit out. I love you. I don't want you to be upset. You're clearly upset at me. I have done something to offend you. Like, let's figure it out. Because honestly, I had a minute to get out of the car together. We get out just stuck here. I'm sure it didn't occur to him. But yeah, it's not because you're in it. That's the other thing you're in it. And when you're in it, you're spiraling, you're in it. And so maybe that's like where you could tell him, like, okay, here, this is your toolbox for me. This is what I need you to do. And when I start being psycho, I need you to be like, wait a minute. I mean, I have, I've had life's not psycho. Something is clearly wrong. I mean, I think that that's part of the problem is that he has become incredibly empathetic to me. Like, I don't know if you listened to the two episodes we did together on vacation. But you know, that's, you know, hearing him say that it hurts him to think about the things that must have happened for a joke. You know, like, he is incredibly empathetic to a fault now. And I've said, like, so many times, like, I don't need a yes, man, I need to know that you are living in your truth, or I can't trust you. And I'm still having so much trouble being vulnerable with you because I can't know for sure that what you say in response is your truth. And I'm struggling because I don't trust you yet. And you have to set boundaries with me. I need boundaries. It's like everybody else. Let me run in the street and get hit by rope. I'm not hoping you love me. It was just a lot. And, you know, I learned a lot about myself, but I just feel so bad after I do that. Like, so completely bad. It was so bad. I couldn't even let myself because it was like, if I go down the shame spiral with this, I'm not coming back during this trip. So I'm gonna have to just be like, I was in survival. And I'm gonna have to forget that for now and then discuss it with myself later. And that's basically what I had to do. Probably me crying today is because I haven't really addressed any of this internally. But also I'm letting myself feel shit, you know, like, it's a first to cry in front of people like that, but whatever. I guess I feel a little hopeless about relationships in general, because I think I'm afraid I'm never going to stop doing that completely. And it's only intimate partners that I allow myself to get to that level with. But I what I learned on the way home when I was thinking about this, because it's a long drive, I definitely connect my parent wounds with with my intimate partners. Like, that's where it's all coming out. So, you know, like, we discussed the abandonment fears get really strong when you start to act like an asshole, because you know, they have to be fucking left when you're behaving that way. And so you're just go ahead and go, you know, for broke. So there's that, but also just the neglect and loss and rejection, all of those things, the people I'm close to are the only people who can hit those things. I'm glad at least that he is understanding where I'm coming from now. But I think I feel a little sad because like, yes, we can get like better and better and better. But the problem is, is that some of the things that trigger me the very most in consistency and reliability, they're not going to go away for us, because that's who he is. And I'm learning that those are the most like, those are the most important things to me. Like, I need to be able to trust you, and I need you to say what you mean, mean, we say, and do the shit you say you're going to do. And so maybe that's a thing too, where he's got to figure out, like, don't agree to something you can't do. Just say no, like, he has to get okay with saying like, no, manage, I tell everybody all the time, this is so crazy. It really is all about managing expectations. If I say I'm going to do something and I don't know, I've disappointed you. If I would have just said no from the beginning, it wouldn't even be a big deal. Like, yeah, do that. You can't. But see, this is not even what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about over promise under deliver. I'm talking about not remembering important things. Those things matter to me a lot. And I think what I'm discovering the very most is I'm a little tired of trying to fix myself so much to accommodate everyone around me. Yeah. And so much of my self growth has been to be able to be better at accommodating everyone around me. And one of the intros that I did while on vacation was, well, I've just decided to put my full crazy on display. And I did several times, not that it was really a choice. But, you know, there's been times in my life that I would have waited for a more private moment to be a crazy ass, you know, but I was like, no, I'm work on do it. And I'm okay with that. Honestly, I mean, it's not nice to meet somebody in front of somebody else. But at the same time, like, I'm tired of like, if I'm only not doing it because of you, then I'm just going to do it. Like, I don't care what it is. Like, I'm not going to hide anymore. And I do think that I've swung this pendulum really far and eventually it's going to come back to the middle where, you know, I'm able to embrace fire, utilize fire, but like temper the fire when needed, you know, and there are times when I need to do that. And I can't. But in a very, very, very escalated, dysregulated states, not the time to try new things or to come at me sideways. Because I'm certainly not in a place to be able to handle a conflict well in that moment. But I, you know, whenever I got to that place in that episode embracing my fire where I said, I mean, no, I'm not perfect, but I'm pretty good, you know, like more and more, that means something new to me every day where I'm like, what if, what if I just accepted that instead of hating it? I feel like if I just allowed things the way I'm allowing feelings now, that they would get better instead of her and using my role and my judge to hate everyone and myself, I'm just going to be like, yeah, I mean, no, that really sucks that I did that. It really does. And it, and it, I do feel remorse. I hate that I hurt him. And my kids hurt when they see me do that, you know, but the appropriate amount of remorse says to me, feel it, apologize, and then release it and do better. Like, that's all I need to know about it. And that's literally it. So one of the things in the book that I read, you know, I read the first part of it, and we'll talk about that later, but it was talking about the different wounds that we have and that we don't always know, you can be going along and going along. And it's like, when you have a sunburn, and you can have a terrible sunburn, and you can wear clothes over it and you can do all of the things. But then when somebody comes along and they slap your back and you hit them or you freak out, because you're like, you know, it's that same kind of way with your wounds. And I was like, wow, that is actually like just the best analogy, because it's like you have to be close enough to be able to hit it. Yeah, it's not like you hit it. And then I make a choice about how I'm going to respond. That's the thing that I keep saying. I'm like, when I'm crazy like this, it's happening to me too. We are discovering this at the same time. This is not some premeditated like, I'm going to try to hurt your feelings. This is like a huge reaction that I wish I could figure out how to get rid of too. I don't even know that mattered to me. Right. Like, I, okay, you know, and also now that that's a thing, I also recognize when he does the exact same thing. And I'm starting to pick up what his triggers are, even though he doesn't believe in them, but he has them. And I'm like, I'm doing that that Brian. I mean, I do believe that the reason he's taken the emotional work so seriously is because he knew that I was serious when I said that when Charlie's 18, like, that's it. Like, I was serious about that when I said that. Thank God that was enough for him to care enough to like really go into the shit because he was a lot like John Doe, a lot like him. And, you know, that I can't be in the intimate relationship with that. I have to be able to share. Yeah, it's not a thing. Well, we're just excited and at each other and living in a parallel way. We're not going in any way. And, you know, we're still discovering so many things in the ways that we've avoided shit and whatever. And it's so fun now to have those kind of conversations with him because he's speaking my language and that's all very promising. And it makes me really happy because he is understanding in that moment. And he, while he, you know, is still having a little trouble determining at what point I'm okay with physical, you know, affection, he gets, he gets that it's not me rejecting his physical affection. And it's literally just a terminology. It hurts when you touch. Exactly. You know, I like that better even than the feral cat. You know, although that is how I feel like a drowned little, you know, feral baby kitten that, you know, screeches when you try to help it because it doesn't know what that touch feels like. And it's very, and it's painful. And that's how I feel on the inside out when I'm in an escalated state, I feel electric, I feel magnetic, and I feel awful. My heart hurts, my stomach hurts. I'm so tense. My back hurts. Like, I don't want to be living that life either. And I'm very grateful that he gets that now. Like, he's like, what do you need? You know, if either of us had understood what was happening really in that car, I'm sure one of us would have said, let's pull over for a minute. Because I know that most of my constraint was the fact that I was surrounded by people, and I need to be away from people when I submit it to yourself. Yeah, I should have put my earpuds in and gone do it into a station bathroom. And now I'll know because we have a conversation, and I'm a tell Brian too, so he can help me stay accountable. I mean, it is fucking, it felt, I don't even want to say this out loud, but it kind of felt like, like a reverse progress. And that was the upsetting part is like, man, but that's what healing is. It's not linear. And I'm always out. But you know, outside of that for a little bit before I could like understand any of the shit that happened to me. Yeah. And the difference is here thinking about it and you're processing it and you're trying to be different. And that's all you can do. That's right. That's all you can do. Every day I'm trying better, you know, I'm just trying. I just, and I'm even having, I think I had to get to this place because sometimes if I get just a little bit too snappy with Charlie in front of other people and they like give me the look, I, you know, obviously my shame pops up, but it's always my royal, you know, like fuck you bitch, blah, blah, blah, kind of thing. Like I'm so pissed at you for acting like I was mean to her. But you know, like I know what that actually is. But I'm getting to where like I silenced the shame even in those moments. I'm like, I did what I did. And granted, I've never done anything like crazy mean to her in front of somebody who's not like really, not that I do like crazy mean shit. But I mean, I'm not always good. You know, I've costed my kids. I'm not lying that, but you know, I'm not like abusive to them. But I'm just getting to where I'm like, it's fine. You know, like I don't care what they think. What I care right now is this, because the harassment would get me like 10 times higher up in the cycle. But yeah, I mean, it's, whoa, it's a lot. It's a lot. But I mean, I feel I've rested as much as I fucking needed to since we've gotten home. And that's helped. I just didn't get a long sleep, which didn't help anything. I was just really committed to don't anticipate anyone else's needs. Don't read between the lines. Like, if somebody needs you to know something, that is their responsibility to tell you. And I just, you know, tried to as much stay in that vein as possible. And you know, like I said, I've just learned a lot about what I need to function. But like, so that's the type of shit I'm just doing with people. If you feel like it's your job to comment on how I respond to a trigger in any way, shape or form, then we're going to compare trauma. That's what we're going to do. Because if you can't say any of those things happen to you before the age of three, then I guess that's probably why you don't fucking get it. Just like when you're wondering why someone's still crying about a death for so long, I guess you wouldn't understand because you haven't had that loss. I'm just kind of like, okay, well, here's what I know about myself. And I'm just going to keep trying. Like, that's literally all I can do, you know. Like we talked about earlier, I want to hear what other people in the book group learn about attachment. But I I don't think that my views on attachment are any more superior than Troy's at all. But I'm not interested in learning more about attachment because I feel like I have a really solid base of that. But I am interested in hearing other people learning about it. But like I told you, having said that I was in the workbook, there was this list on each little wound like abandonment, loss, rejection, and it gives you like a checklist. You know this, I'm telling this to the audience. It gives you like a checklist of things that might have happened to you that fit into that category. And we discussed how the loss wound was really activated in a way that we didn't always know. That's the wound that things are hitting. And so I really think that you and I both the second we feel ourselves being people that we shouldn't be, we're like, oh, it's it in the lost wound already. I'm already rejecting myself. You know, like, I'm telling myself, hey, go leave you and you deserve it, bitch. You know, like, okay, how are we gonna deal with that? You know, like, this is what we're doing. So yeah, man, that loss wound. I did not even fucking realize that is I knew it was big. It's even bigger than I thought, because that's where everything goes that doesn't fit abandonment and rejection, which are my biggest, you know, besides neglect, obviously. So yeah, that's actually abandonment, neglect, rejection, loss. Those are my four biggest, and I don't know that one holds more weight than the other because they're all very significant in my life. And they all are triggered all day every day. I don't think that I've ever stopped. One of the things that I've pushed aside for a lot of years and loss is, for instance, in when I was eight years old, this was a really big deal. It didn't happen before this and it's never happened since, obviously, but eight years old, my dad decided he wanted me to come stay the night with him for my birthday. And my little sister, my stepmom was pregnant with her, Sarah, the oldest. I was getting to meet her for the first time, you know, Cheryl, all this stuff. And it was a really big deal. Like, my dad just did not do shit like this, and I didn't even allow myself to get my hopes up because he was such a fuck up, you know, but he showed up and I went and I got his car. I mean, I remember it all, right? And got me, and this is 1988, so you know, it was a big deal. He got me this big boom box and it was like a double-sided recorder. Like, there was a bunch of shit on this boom box and maybe even had a microphone. That might have been a later one I got, but I don't remember, but it was a big deal. He really fucking celebrated my ass. And I think that's because he knew he was a dick all those years and had money here and here, but I was in the middle. So, you know, that one year was so fucking special to me. So, I'm telling you all that in great detail because my loser fucking mom abandoned me in a house, not very long after that. And so, what happens, Jane and audience. So, authorities show up when neighbors notice that children are left alone and then no one wants all your shit, right? So, all of the stuff that I've ever had has been lost in lots of homes. Like, yes, I didn't have the typical foster care experience. We were traveling with a trash bag, but I sure the fuck felt like that a lot. And all of those little losses when thinking back about them, they hurt me so much still to this day, but I never identified that like I was feeling lost in those. And so, I think that's a really important thing for me to implement moving forward is to start acknowledging all of my loss, because I think I'll be so much less afraid of loss at all times. Like, that's, you know, if I'm dealing with my prior losses. It's a theory. Who knows? No, I think that's such a good point too. And when you think about it, you know, that goes back to our conversation earlier where I have the shame because I don't have a family and I don't have that stability that I could have done anything about it. But, you know, you see people where people are like, oh, hand me down clothes. And I got this. And this was my mom's and this, whatever. We don't have any of that stuff. My mom would give everything away. Like, we didn't have anything consistent, you know, we never got anything. And if we got it, then it just like left. It was the same thing. We were like transient, you know? Yes. So like, you didn't like, I didn't have anything. Like, even so now people like hand their toys down to their kids, like play with dolls from the 60s the other day over at John Doe's grandmother's house. And there's like five pictures of me as a child. That's it. That's all you're to. Yeah. I don't even have them anymore. I don't know where they are. But yeah, I didn't get pictures. Any of that stuff. Right. And I know there are people who did, you know? So yeah, I think all of that is lost. And let me just address what you said again, because I just had this thought. Like, I can't understand the shame that you have with that only because my entire brand for my whole life has been, I had a fucked up life and I overcame it. You know, like everyone who's ever known me knows this. I have a passion, I have a mission, and I'm on it. None of it's ever changed, Jane. Like, you've known me since a lot of people. I'm the same. I'm on the same fucking path I've always been. I want to change the world. And damn it, I'm doing my best to do that. It was starting with myself, my world. That's always allowed me to be very open about everything that I've ever gone through. But yeah, that's not your brand, your brand in the back of this bitch. Yeah. No one knows where the fuck that came from. None of those things. Like, I am just like, have to be very closed off and just hide all of that stuff. You know what I mean? And emotionally unavailable. That I made like with my first marriage and like, you know, I don't, I don't, I can't, I lose credibility in my work if I don't have that and all these people are so kind of messy. You know, and then some of the time I'm like, okay, I want to just like be able to be authentic and say like, hey, you know, I have my own lived experience. I'm pretty sure like I've got my a score is like almost perfect. Like, you know, and so it's like, but I can't be those things. So my shame, I'm mostly like always trying to hide that and I wanted to hide that from my children and I wanted to make it not messy for them. Am I doing that? I made it messier, you know, and I hate all of that. I hate all of that. I don't know how to, you know, so part of like what I want to get out of this workbook is that I'm really like, how do I get to have that authenticity? And how do I make sure it doesn't compromise like my relationships, like professional relationships? What you feel like too though, even even personal and professionally, don't you feel like having to stay in that masculine energy is affecting everything around you? It's awful. I think it's why I'm just now started to be able to be vulnerable, even in my intimate relationships, because now I'm starting to believe like, okay, even if people, so before I would be like, no, nobody could know this about me. Nobody, your whole vision, social. That was your biggest ruler. Yes. Oh, 100% like you know, this about me. Yeah, we're just not going to talk about this. Like, no, everything's great. And I made perfect. It did all the right things and I'm pretty. So it's like fine. Everybody's fine with it, right? And then it's like, okay, now I'm starting to believe like, okay, I've proven myself enough that maybe I can be a little bit that, and maybe I don't care what anybody else says. Maybe didn't make a difference, you know, you're not my bone coming out until you fucking let it go. Right. So much that is perceived. I don't know your business. I do, and I don't want to dismiss what you're saying, and especially when you were climbing up the ladder that you did. You're right. You are right. You are so fucking right, Jane. I'm serious. Like, I want you to know I'm with you and though I don't understand it fully, I can empathize with it. I really can because there's been times where I have struggled like, do I tell him that? And I'm like, I'll tell him, you know, like, I do think at this point, you're it's really probably more a fear of loss than anything because you're like, this is the only thing I've been good at. So I can't make that go away. But now here you are really good at this thing. But does it make you happy? You know, well, I feel like for you that your I see it all happening as an outsider of your world, I can see it coming together, honey. I really can. And I don't want to say that in a way that feels like dismissing any anything in your journey. But as an outsider, I'm privy to things that you're not because you're emotional. You know, you're in the emotions of it. As an outsider, I'm like, baby, this is your purpose. You're finding it and you're finding a way to align it with your strengths. Because God damn, you are fucking badass bitch. You know that, but I'm gonna say it again, because for real, you are fucking like magnetic and powerful and you are doing the damn thing. But you will be happier when you align the badass victory with something that makes you feel more authentic. I don't know what that means, you know, but I know it's coming. I know you're finding it. I just know wearing a mask is so exhausting. It is just so exhausting. And there's that like fear that people are gonna know stuff. And I'm like, whoa, my God, what is that? Okay, this has been my number one thing. I've started thinking about this. Thank God for Jenny Kemp and enjoy love seriously. And thank you for my intuition and said message her. She's gonna change your life. I love her. You know, I love her so much. She sent me something the other day. I was on the road home and I was like, why are you so cute? And after the last episode where I'm like, baby, I gotta go. My dog's having a seizure over there. She's like messaging me later. Like, I'm so sorry. You know, like all these, I was like, oh, that was a drop in the bucket of the things that happened while we were recording, honey, that was nothing. But thank you. That's fine. But the politician boy, that's ruled my brain when it comes to anybody coming in my house. And I've tried so hard for years. And I think her giving that label and me identifying something on my life is forever transformed because it always was they can't know that like, right on pissed on that ottoman and you can't get the stain out and that your dog pissed on this. And you can't like, because I live in a world where I want everything to be perfect and organized, clean and very aesthetically pleasing and like sent twice, like as a Gemini and nobody else to fucking believe in that shit, but I do sent an aesthetic real big deal to us. Okay. And then as an areas rising organization, very important to me. I live in a fucking world with people who destroy my organization on a daily basis and I can't fucking take it anymore. So no doubt. But I'm like, okay, why am I spending so much time believing wholeheartedly that people are literally going to leave my house and call as many people as they can to talk about my house. And it's the talking about and I know that that was programmed in me because my grandma was so weird about it. But what is that? Like, oh, God, I can't even tell you that was my biggest fear and life for so long. I measured everything about myself because I didn't want anyone to talk about me. I didn't even have to know it was happening. And I would fret for hours like they're gonna be talking about me. They're gonna tell so and so. Okay, learning now, that's just a shadow of shame. I'm like, okay, you know what? I'm gonna invite someone overseeing. Oh, I'm letting my daughter have friends over. I've been letting her for a whole year now. And I make her clean up if she's gonna have people come over, but not like perfect. I don't. Seriously. Yeah, girlfriend who lives in a house that looks like it's not lived in. She's got a little OCD. And I'm like, I will never be that. But we do the best we can. And I am generally like a people in my house is clean as fuck. Shut the fuck up. It's usually, well, so, you know, that's one of my things that was my like nature. So gross growing up and we had bugs and we had all the weird, you know, you know, yeah, it was like, yeah, I'm not going to be that. So I went the other way. And but I see things. I just see things in my house different. Like, I need to feel safe in my house. Yeah, I need to feel safe and secure. And those are all things that I told the kids growing up too. It was like, so this is a need for me. Yeah. And that's what I've been trying to tell my family. Like, I can't mention in a house that I can't do it. And I, I'm sorry, I'm being ugly to you, but I need us all to take like 15 minutes. And I can't, I'm not going to do this by myself. Everybody's going to do it. Yeah. Why would you have to be right now? Why does it come out of nowhere? I don't know. Well, that sucks, dude. It's like to me too. All this fucking time, man. Yesterday, even I was in such a good fucking mood because I slept to like 11 and got up and did shit. And I went to do something that, oh, I finally, we say in the Airbnb. So like, I didn't come home with any laundry except for like one little Walmart sack, you know. But I did have to put it all back away, right? So I was a little overwhelmed by that. I go to put shit away in Charlie's drawers and who could not because they were fucking all fucked up, pissed me off real good. So I did not allow myself to fly off the handle, but I was a little bitchy about it. But then I came back and I was like, I'm sorry about that. But I just need to walk away from the project because usually I'm not good at that. And I, I don't usually self-soothe well either because then I start to look around, you know, and I could see a hundred things that can be done right there. I think the part that hurts me the most and makes it so overwhelming is it's just, it's not fair to me that my family is so fucking messy. I just, I just don't think that's fair. And I also don't think it's fair for people to come behind me and ruin organization. And the part that pisses me off about where I'm not like accepting that he does that is that he'll bitch about like if he organized his little van for work and then the person who uses it, he wants that thing organized a certain way. So if a person comes and then uses it and fucks it up, he's pissed rightfully, right? He does not see the things he does in this house as that. And I'm like, well, it's the same, I promise. And I bet you that van that you're never in doesn't affect your mental health the way this house does me. And blah, blah, blah. But I also realized that so much of that is me feeling ashamed that I'm living in a house that like we we actually did battle roaches a few years ago because when my grandma died, she had had a lot of roaches and we did our very best for the few items that I brought home of hers. And it wasn't enough. And at the old house, it was so cluttered because we didn't have enough room for Charlie, you know what I mean? And so there was just it was just a breeding ground for roaches. Honestly, I mean, it just got worse and worse. And I was real depressed because that's a trigger for me to see shit like that. You know, I mean, it's like the one thing I'm afraid of. I has it's humiliating when you're I didn't experience this, but my cousins did, I'd go to my aunt's houses and you know, you'd move a calendar and a hundred roaches matter. Yeah. Well, then I got to live with that with my kids inviting like Bryson had friends over one time because they they moved with us and we couldn't figure out what to do. And finally, I got on YouTube and thank God I found this. Hey, anybody struggle with roaches? Go look on YouTube at Green Acres pest control. I'm not kidding. He has a whole Amazon store. We bought the products he recommended and they were gone in two weeks. But and I'm talking infestation. And the humiliation I was walking around feeling at all times because like, you know, I'm driving a Lexus and whatever in my house is full of roaches. You know what I mean? Like, oh my god, you know, all these things, whatever. It was bad. But my politician is who's like, oh my god, you cannot tell a single fucking person. Even though more I tell people, no one's like, you're a disgusting bitch. They're like, Oh my god, that's awful for you. You know what I mean? I'm like, you're doing for me, you're not like Melissa, you're a piece of shit. You know what I mean? But that's how it felt. And I look at your kids with headlights. It's the same way I'm like, yeah, they're like, your kids have had advice? Yes. And so am I like, Oh my god. Like pink eye for me. I just get it anytime a kid gets it. And yeah, it's cool. I don't know why my kids aren't dirty. Like, it's not, you know, my mom was the same way it was like, people are going to think here, blah, blah, blah. That's all we heard was you can't tell where this and you don't tell people that we don't whatever and people need to know like you have to take a bath every day or people are going to know how dirty you are. Well, the only thing I have said, and I don't even know if this was right or not because I'm doing so much to not, I'm not talking to her about reputation. I'm not talking to her about any of that because I think at a young age, you can internalize the wrong message. And I'm like, maybe you be you, you're fucking great. And like, I don't allow people to talk about weight at all. Do you remember in the eighties and nineties, it was a sin to be fat. So oh yeah, I mean, like, that's one of my things that I'm so weird about, like my stepdad saying and meaning it like, Oh, you're about to be felt like your mom, another like terrible trigger. And well, because your mom, she kind of embodied that don't give a fuck about my kids lazy ass gonna like, smoke cigarettes out on my friends, you know what I mean? Like, she wasn't cleaning, she wouldn't take care of herself. It's so funny that she even walked around. She was the shit because I was like, honey, what is wrong with you with so many people? Like, how are you sleeping with so many people? Like, I've gone on my hand the number of times you've worn makeup or like, tried to do something with your hair. Right. Like, what did people attracted to this? Well, I mean, did you see who she was fucking though? Yes. I'm sure that they were. Yeah, I don't, I don't talk disparagingly about myself in front of her. Nothing, because I'm like, determined to not make her sole purpose in life to be to care what everybody else. And because that was me, everybody else. And then it's funny to me how many people like in my friendships have been like, you can't, you shouldn't worry about that blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, but you're perpetuating it. You're doing it too to me. Like, you nitpick me, you make your little teasing comments. You know what I mean? Like, I'm, it happens all the fucking time. And so, I'm like, well, uh, all I know is I got this one daughter. And I do feel like I fucked up a little bit in this way with the boys because it was you that taught me boys care to. You know what I mean? You have boys older than mine helped me. I mean, I'm so dumb because my oldest, when he started getting like his little chunky, we started running together. I wasn't ugly about it, but I was like, Hey, I care about your fitness and nutrition and whatever. Same with the middle. Well, then, you know, the last does not have those issues. Not at all. I was constantly like, you need to eat. You need to do this. You're too skinny. And I remember one time we were running and you were like, okay, I'm going to say this in like the nicest way, but also like your body shaming him and you're giving him whatever whatever. And I was like, I because I've never struggled with that. I didn't even think about it as a struggle. And I was like, Oh, I only do because I have a friend with that. Yeah, never even thought about it. And now like just the other day, we were in the house and John Doe was saying something about like, Oh, I can't shop at that place. You know, they only make skinny people clothes or whatever. And I was like, we don't say that. And he was like, what? It's okay. I said, skinny. And I was like, okay. Well, if he was fat, would you say like, Oh, I can't shop there. They only make bad people clothes. And he was like, Oh, I guess not. Right. Don't say it then. Like, it's just the same thing. No comments about bodies. Like, why are you saying that? Like, you could just say like, Oh, they're close with me. We're that sucks. I love them. They're really cool jeans. I do a lot of, you know, little, little things like that. Like, I actually when well, it's very hard for me. I let Charlie wear bikinis. And I have a very hard time with that because I don't know what my deal was with modesty because I don't. That's the one thing I can't say came from grandma because she was always like, Oh, I feel a little bad. A lot. I'm like, Oh, God, you're weird. Because I had boobs and she didn't. Anyway, so when I hate bikinis, like on kids, I think they're gross, but that's just, it's just me. It's just me being weird, whatever. But when I don't know, wait, it's not like a weird church thing that we got or something possibly possible. I'm the exact same way. I think. Yeah, of course they also don't have a daughter. Right. We want it. It's our responsibility to not be tempting to many. So that's everything to do with church. Yeah. Because you know, men can't be responsible for themselves, honey, avert their eyes. You got to make sure that whatever you've gone on is not displeasing to the higher powers. Yeah. But she was kind of young the first time she reached for bikini. And I was like, I'm a letter. You know, it was funny though, because she put it on and she was like, is this supposed to show all this? She did not realize that she was doing it. I was like, yeah, she's like, eh, I think I'm going to wear that one. It took her a little bit to get brave enough. And I was like, but like, people don't understand when they say, can you tell I've lost weight? And I'm like, I can. I just don't make comments on people's bodies. But since you've asked, yes, I can tell. And like, I don't want to say who someone I know has lost some weight. And I don't say shit about it ever. They said when people make a really big deal about it, which I fully understand this, it just makes me feel worse. Because all I think is, Oh, I did look as bad as I thought I did. Okay, great. I remember when I lost a lot of weight and John Doe and several other people like thought it was really sweet. Like I'm being serious. This is what they think is a compliment. You don't even look like the same person. And I'm like, that feels good. You don't mean, but I think it kind of irritates people's spirit now that I'm like, listen, body dysmorphia in the best way now because I feel hot as fuck. I don't give a fuck. I really don't. My stomach will get bigger and smaller. My weight fluctuates at all fucking time. I don't give a fuck out. Can't tell me shit. Do I have an occasional once a month day where I'm like, damn, my skin is not it or what? Yeah, occasionally. And then I just go, Oh, today's the day we avoid a mirror because we do not talk to ourselves like that. And I get the fuck out of there because I love feeling this good about myself. I'm like, finally, you know, it wasn't just perception. I mean, was not a cute kid. Was that a cute teenager? Well, by high school, I was pretty cute, but I didn't really know what to do with it. I was not cute either. This hair was a lot. And fucking every dude wanted you. Well, not until like high school, whatever, before that one of those boys, we had a crush on a church, had a crush on you. Well, I'm a good time. You are a good time, even if I wasn't a good time like that for years, lots of years, modest, very modest, within a relationship with the Lord. This is a true story. My battery is at 3%. Okay, lovey. Okay, thank you. I hope you have the best week. Okay, I'm hanging up. I love you, bye. Hey, hey, what do you say? Listen, first and foremost, please make sure that you have provided this podcast with a five star rating on whichever platform that you are listening. If you want to support the show, please rate, like, and share. Also like, comment, and share on any social media posts that you see for me on Instagram or Facebook or TikTok. Please follow the podcast Facebook, emotionally unavailable podcast. You can shop my foot online, store, or schedule a one-on-one with me, emotionally unavailable podcast.org. I'm offering what I'm calling non-traditional counseling, astrology readings, and tarot readings, and self-publishing services. And thank you so much for listening to the emotionally unavailable podcast. Hope that you liked that episode with Jane Doe or the astrology people. The full moon in Capricorn on Sunday morning at 5.55 AM is closing out a humongous cycle. Pluto is leaving Capricorn after 18 years. So whatever themes were happening in your life in 2008, that cycle is now ending because it moved into Capricorn 2008. And I've been trying to fit. My Saturn return was that year. Google that. And my divorce was initiated that year. I know that some, the major theme that I started to see in 2008 was my reliance on others for self-worth, particularly whether or not a male found me attractive. So I think that was a part of a bigger theme that all of my self-worth and value and self-esteem came from external validation and not internal validation. So that's the thing that I've been forced to work on because I'm not going to lie. I was abandoned by a lot of fake during my dark days. Say that was cute. Anyway, so be thinking about your overarching theme. One question that I was told to ask myself is how do you handle when people don't meet your expectations? So Jenny Kimpton and I are going to talk about that because this is something that I really struggled with and it struck me down like it was the message from the Lord himself. I was like dang because yeah, that's a big piece. I still got left to work on. It made me mad. I don't want work on anything else. Who knows? But so that's a theme and you should ask yourself that question. What do you do? How do you handle it? Are you handling it well? Is that something you need to be working on? Are you getting your self-worth from external forces and not the things that you do to fill your own cup? Are you setting boundaries with people? Are you holding boundaries? It's a time Pluto is then going into retrograde in Aquarius and this is the time for us to receive our bounty if we have been putting in the work. So lady on TikTok, Alexie, A-L-E-X-I-E, Gigi G-I-G-I. She is on TikTok. Be careful. There's a lot of imposters. She has 444 in the profile picture. She's gorgeous but the only account that's really her has a fuck ton of followers and she's got a link tree that will take you to these workbooks that she does for like each full moon and stuff. It's 1555 for this workbook. I bought it. I'm gonna do it. So you know if you're interested and you can't find the link just let me know and I guess that is it for now because I am tired so we'll talk about more important stuff later. Okay until next time let's all just keep swimming.