Back with Jenny Kempton, LMSW, diving deeper into the shadows of shame from Troy Love's book, "Finding Peace." Jenny is a gift. <3
Emotionally Unavailable
Episode 29: Illumination
and I was like, and she just, I have to think through those things like I wouldn't be able to tell a client that that we have lots to help people get this because this is life changing information. But I, you know, try to function. It just wasn't working out. So this is the example that people resonate with. So this is why I'm using it. It's just like eat that whole thing of my screen by yourself. That's the first thing that's going to come out of my mouth is great. Now I have another thing to feel guilty for. I mean, if if they would just blah, blah, blah, then I wouldn't blah, blah, blah. You know, what is that? What do you call it? Welcome to Emotionally Unavailable, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of emotional availability and intimacy. I'm your host, Melissa Hepner, and I can't tell you how excited I am to have you join me on this journey of self discovery and connection. Whether you're navigating the complexities of relationships or exploring your own emotional landscape, this podcast is here to inspire, empower, and entertain. So get cozy and let's explore the depths of human emotions together. Hi, guys, we are back today with Jenny Kempton. We got to go a little more in detail about the shadows of shame. And it was just really impactful for me. And I know that it will be impactful for others as well. Jason, your word of the day, even though you'll never hear it, is glade. A glade is a grassy open space in a forest. She felt the most at ease outdoors, often taking delight in the peaceful glades. She came across on her hikes, identifying which shadows are popping up for me. The most has been very helpful. You will also hear that the episode ends kind of abruptly. And I'm about to talk to you about my pet's health condition. So if that is sensitive content for you, you're going to want to skip ahead just a minute. So my old dog, Kendall, he's, I don't know, I think almost 15, I don't even know, 13, 14, he had a seizure. And he was in my room, so I heard him, so I had to hurry and get off, so I could tend to him. And I cut like a minute or two of the front side of the episode, because wouldn't you know, I had some tech issues. So sorry, Jenny, thank you for your patience and grace. And you may blame Saturn in retrograde. And it might be helpful for all guests to understand that. Probably until November 15, when it leaves retrograde, you know, mama gonna have some issues just what we're going to do with. So you know, I learned a couple things today. So yeah, I don't really have a lot else to say. I know that you're really going to like this episode. And I want to find more ways to raise money for scholarships for the Finding Peace Masterclass, for others to get to purchase. And I'm going to purchase Troy Love's book Shadows of Shame. And we touch on that in this episode as well. So I'm excited and things are looking good. And I just appreciate the continued support. Enjoy this episode with me and Jenny Kempton, LMSW, as we discuss Troy Love's work, The Shadows of Shame. Did you have anything specific? I thought about talking about my lost wind and different things that I experienced going back to my blog. I looked at some different surgeries that I had. And I forgot how traumatizing it was. It's been a really long time since I've looked into that. It was pretty happy going through that. I'm trying to figure out how to say it without going into too deep a detail because that can bring some things up for other people. They had to do my surgeries when I was awake and that's the traumatizing part for me. I had a friend who was in, I don't know if I mentioned this last time, but she was in psychology. She was doing her bachelor's and she opened up one of her books and she's like, oh, if people have surgeries when they're awake, then it can cause PTSD symptoms or trauma for 18 months. And I'm like, oh, that would explain what's going on with me. And I'd been experiencing that for like, I don't know, a couple of years by that point. And I just had those shame-toms like you're crazy, Jenny, like we talked about The Shadows of Shame last time, which I didn't know that that's what it was. I just thought I'm crazy kind of thing. Like what's wrong with me? Well, especially because we have such a tendency to minimize our experiences. So if I'm sure for you, you've had a lost wound. So you have, I use the word death and dying intentionally, but I'm about to say it. So, you know, some people are not there. But if you've experienced loss by watching somebody die of several different things I could think of, it's real easy to tell yourself that what you are experiencing is not that big of a deal. And I feel like that's something, in some ways, that some of my old religious trauma is that I was just taught. Oh, I know, honey, but you know, you just really should be grateful for your blessings. So, you know, we're not really going to talk about that. We're going to focus on the positive, not the negative. That's why I hate toxic positivity, because I'm like, no, let's honor it all. I'm really excited that this was the area that you still wanted to touch on, because first of all, I've gotten even more messages just in the last three days about how helpful that episode was. I was thinking about this yesterday, and I'm like, you know, labeling my, I'll say, anger, even though most of my quote unquote anger isn't anger, it's just a triggered response that I haven't, you know, managed my reaction to. But it's helpful. You know, I have PMS, I'm very close to starting my period right now. So I have PMDD. I'll be honest, yesterday was the first day that I've had any super negative symptoms from it this month. That's been really nice. Boy, when it hit, it hit, and I was thinking, okay, if I were to apply that strategy to these two things too, because I had to again say, you are thinking not feeling, what are you feeling? And the feelings were, you know, it seems stupid to me, but I was like, but we're gonna honor them anyway, you know, because you're not angry, honey, what's going on? You're not feeling that's why you feel like this, you know, I had a bunch of my back is hurting, you know, what's going on? And so I was like, okay, yeah, let's honor that. What are you here for? You're trying to protect me from feeling this. Okay, great. That was great. And I mean, I was able to release and move on with my day, you know, like, it came up again later. And so I called a friend and I cried, and then I let it go. And that's been it. I mean, you know, there's stuff that happens, obviously, and thankfully I'm in a much better place to be able to like understand, it doesn't mean that, you know, real catastrophic negative stuff that my brain loves to tell me during PMDD period. But I'm telling you, that is such a good strategy. I'm so thankful to you and to Troy, because I mean, yes, we have to get scholarships for this masterclass, which by the way, I want anyone listening to understand it's not an expensive class at all. I look at these all the time, so I know what the cost of an average mass format class is. So, you know, I'm not going to say the cost just on Eric's. I know how that strategy works and whatever, but it's portable. But I know how we tend to value and prioritize growth. And I know you're going to go rather spend that money on something else when they really need to buy this. If I can provide any sort of offer, I mean, Lord knows, I'm going to have to sell one of those dang charts at some point to help. But if I can, I want to. And then before we continue, I wondered if you had a very good quick reference guide to something that you were mentioning in our last, this you, you were just talking. So you mean, but the thing that I really like is it seems like you have a good chart somewhere. Yeah. If I'm this, then this. And I thought, I don't need to reinvent the wheel for everything. That's a resource you're willing to share. I sure would accept that from you. But I just want to say it again. Thank you for the work. Yeah, I love it. It's been different because it's helped me so much. And that's the giving back part. I love talking about it with whoever I'm trying to think if there's any other place, but just the Finding Peace book, there's a part in there where it has the simple, it's like cart, the Finding Peace chart, we call it the hop, like hopscotch chart too, where you can kind of go around. So you can, you have the facts, but then you're talking about the motions and then you're like, oh, I had this numbing behavior. So it doesn't have to go necessarily in order. And then we're like, okay, we'll jump back to the shadows of shame. And what are they saying? Because you notice that you were feeling like, you know, whatever your numbing behavior is, like you're smoking. And so like, so what's that rebel saying? Just like, forget all this, and we're just going to go and, um, or whatever. So it's like, okay, well, what emotion was coming up is really angry. Okay. So your royal was coming out. Like, how dare this person do this? All right. So let's feel that anger and honor that. Like you said, hold space for it. And for our experience, because not holding space, like the judge that's saying your experience isn't as bad as so on so, and then that's just putting salt in the wound there. The judge, see, this is okay. I'm going to marry Troy in a different life. This is just so like, Brian, I was just kidding. I don't mean to like that. I just mean, like, I'm pro in love with this book and just all of this. Well, I forgot that I was going to buy the book. So now I'm putting that on my to-do list. Now that you're saying it's in there, I'm like, Jenny, I'm so stoked. That was a thing. I've mentioned it even in an intro to a different episode the other day. I'm like, she just so easily was like, well, if I'm feeling, you know, this, then I probably just need a little attendance. Or if this reassurance, this, and I was like, and she just, I have to think through those things. Like, I wouldn't be able to tell a client that that quickly. And I was like, okay, this finding piece, we got to get this on people's hands. We have lots to help people get this, because this is life-changing information. And you're doing great. I appreciate it. Yeah, I want to get that work out more because I'm like, oh, how do people not have this? How do they function without that? But I, you know, tried to function. It just wasn't working out so well. It was, it wasn't. Yeah, I think that's, that's really helpful. And also, I think a lot of people have a hard time with that self-compassion part. So try to just have a book. They reached out to him, the book, and they asked, hey, can you do one on self-compassion? So he has 365 days of like self-compassion, but like a self-love, you just look up, you know, self-love, trial of. And so I read one of those every day, and it's like fast coping skills, or like fast, you know, just like a little quote, or an activity, both with my clients too. So that's something they can do, you know, it just takes one or two minutes. And so it's not like, oh my gosh, I have to learn all that. Self-compassion piece. People aren't understanding, and that's why I push the mantras and the affirmations and the fake it, tell you make it because your brain's complete, whatever you tell it. And that shame, shadow, is directly related to the amount of compassion you are willing to demonstrate for self. And if you are not being intentional about this type of growth, you don't even realize you have shadows of shame. We remember how we talked about people who identify as sex addicts. I was speaking to somebody this week who is a recent widower, and they've been married for 64 years. And in speaking, this person apparently, you know, the way they would put it at 85 years old, is I've always had a very high sex drive, blah, blah, blah, but she was, you know, really accommodating. And you know, we were very compatible in that way, even after 64 years of marriage, blah, blah, blah. So I said, well, I'm not going to lie to you, that actually tells me a lot about you. Like, you were probably very impulsive. And you know, this is, because I'm like, well, you regulated with sex. I mean, period, that's not sex drive. I was like, okay, well, you know, it feels like you're applying morality where it really doesn't belong in this scenario. And I can definitely understand why you're there. But we, you know, talk through it or whatever. And he was like, man, you were the perfect person to call today. Because it's a taboo subject. It can be. And especially for that generation, you know, and the amount of empathy I felt for him, just like, oh, imagine going through a major traumatic loss. Right. And now you're feeling guilty for normal human responses. But that's what we do, Jenny, we feel guilty for being human. And what is that? Yeah, I mean, there's like, what the shadows of shame are, which is what family and our society has taught us. And so, yeah, we feel that way. I mean, we didn't originally when we were like little kids, and then people started saying, no, that's not okay. I'm not okay. Like, and like as a child, yeah, like we start to make it about ourselves. And so it's not about like the behaviors. It's about like, Oh my gosh, you were doing this. Oh, I'm a bad person. And then we start to absorb those negative core beliefs. You know, I'm not enough. I'm a bad person and, you know, gross or whatever it is. And it's interesting that that's the topic that came up because Troy does sex addiction groups. And that's kind of one of the specialties. Yeah, he works with men. He has one that he does online. So he has a program with that. And then he does one that's in person. And so they meet two times a week, I think, for the online sex addiction group. And he helps with betrayal partners and different things. So you have websites for that. So anyway, anybody who's interested in that, that's kind of a special piece there. And then yeah, it's looking at, okay, that's the band aid. What's the wound underneath? And I've talked to people who have been in this group when they're like, Oh, I've done lots of different work. And this just something about it being able to focus on. There's a wound there like what thing that I'm trying to numb there. And we're working on that healing process and reaching out to other people. And it's really cool to see that breaks it down. That that breaks the understanding of any addiction, honestly, down to a more manageable level. And a more personal level brings more understanding to what addiction actually is. And it is numbing behavior. It is avoidance. It is this, it doesn't mean, in my opinion, addiction is not just this really small box that I was raised in around, you know, attic parents, I attended tons of AA and NA meetings with my mom as a child. So I know that whole system pretty well. And I'm just like, okay, that's cute for like a piece of it, but there's so much more to this. And as long as we're just, you know, don't do it, don't do it. Well, we're not helping anyone. I mean, I don't, it doesn't help anyone to sit in a room talking about how badly you wish you could do something that you can't do. Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah, that's like they don't touch the pink kind of thing. Like, like, okay, don't do it, don't do it. And then we also talk about, I'm not like, as competent as I want in this field. So I don't want to tap on things that I'm like, yeah, yeah, so I'm just kind of sticking to the parts that I do know. And yeah, I'm just thinking of what Trish told me before, like, people will set goals and they'll say, okay, I'm not going to do this. And for seven days, and they make it six days, and then their judge is like, oh, you messed up, but they made it for six days. And so like, making a focus on, okay, well, what was coming up when, you know, like, oh, like, was I happy, was I excited or like, or was somebody bullying me at school or what was coming up around that? And so we're addressing that and also making goals around other things like, we're going to, we're not going to make goals on, you know, let's make it. No, we're good. Like, okay, like, I want to exercise more. And so I'm going to move around that. And, you know, I'm going to do whatever you want to do 20 pushups a day. And I'm focusing more on that part. And then we're also looking at like the mindfulness part of like, okay, what was what was hit there? Okay, what does this bring up for me? Or like, what, what do I think of from my past? So just thinking, okay, what comes up for me? And when I say what comes up for me, it's like, what does my memory go back to? And I think of this, when have I experienced this emotion, this feeling before these, you know, like, okay, yeah, like, somebody like these kids rejected me in school or somebody like abused me or people weren't showing up for me. And pornography is always going to be there for me. They never abandoned, you know, it never abandons me. So like, my numbing thing. And so the brain attaches to different things that feel like no understanding of what your, you know, positive, you know, your pleasure center, yeah, dopamine serotonin releases that you get, especially the first time you view material like that, yeah, creates a sensation that you now attached to it, you're now chasing that feeling forever. But in so much part of that, being this savior to you, as much as it is anything else. And I really like the idea of harm reduction. I feel like this is a perfect, you know, space for harm reduction, because, you know, it really is about reinforcement. I want to see more of this, and I want to see less of this, how can we get those two kind of together? And just to a point that you made a second ago, when you were clarifying, understanding what's coming up, I have been trying to tell myself and others as well, what was I thinking about when I started to have that sensation? Because for people like me who are not accustomed to experience in their feelings, I believe if you start feeling that way, I don't know what's I mean, you know, so the other day, like, well, what was I thinking about when that started? Oh, okay, yeah, that's what the feeling is hard if you're not used to it. Yeah, and there's some charts that I'm thinking about that are in the finding piece book, and it's like, okay, I participated in this numbing behavior, and then noticing what was going on around that. And it's really backtracking, because I will talk to my clients a lot where I'm like, I think where you might have talked about this last time, they're like, oh, I'm having a panic attack, I'm way up here. And then like, like 30 minutes ago, something happened here. And it's just practicing that mindfulness. I was at the store, and I, and something happened here. That's really hard for people to backtrack. Like, I have no idea. Like, it just really wasn't there. So it feels a lot of the glue. Yeah, yeah. So it's a process. And I think being patient with ourself in that process is an important part. It's that self compassion aspect. So I'm learning one piece of this at a time. It took me years to get down to like, yeah, like, okay, I see, I see. And I still, I'm noticing, I'm like, hmm, like, I'm really angry. Okay, what is going on here? Like, what just happened? And then I just like, pause my time. I can tell that my brain is starting to pick up those things a little bit faster. And I work all day with people doing this. And so my brain keeps there. Yeah, worked with a forefront. It's easy to be mindful, because you're using that vocabulary all day. And I mean, good for you. And that's what people need to understand is, forget imposter syndrome, because you are sitting here looking me in the face. And I'm sitting here looking you in the face, saying we have the credentials to help others. And yet we're still having to help ourselves. And that's okay. We don't need to say anything negative about that, because I feel like there'd be a lot of negative things to say about two people trying to help the world. If we felt like we were perfect at it, you know, and any of this stuff, I believe in my heart, a stigma for mental health professionals, where they feel lost and scared and don't always know how to reach out or admit their own stuff. And I loved just in case I didn't say this at our last meeting. I loved how you said that you share some the appropriate amount of things of your struggle with your clients, because that's who I am. I can't do anything without letting you know how like my personal experience or share a story or an anecdote from my personal life. Obviously, I'm not going to get into like stuff that's inappropriate. But that's how you connect. That's how you trust. But also, I feel like there's this moment where you really are kind of mirroring each other, you know, and you're understanding each other. And I think it doesn't have to be all that for people to receive assistance from somebody. But I also think it's okay if we do this work in the way that we are doing it. So I just I just want to say that intentionally so that the audience can hear that because I have mental health professional friends that will listen and I want them to understand that nobody's thinking they have it all together or that they should have it all together because none of us do. Yeah. Yeah, it reminds me and I'm like, okay, I cannot remember the book. I just want to run over there and grab it. We were just talking about it to day and my final finding piece certification class and Troy says he buys it for all the employees when they first start. I'm like, I could look it up on my audible but I remember reading that like way back and it's this therapist who's practiced for the 30 years and it's like a letter to therapists and he talks about being vulnerable. And this one therapist who hadn't shared with his clients, he's like, I haven't shared anything for 30 years. And he's like, that's like, that's really sad because he just felt like that's what people need. They need to be able to hear our stories and connect. And this is like the life stage. And when I share with somebody, I just I just see like them kind of drop like that wall like, Oh, you're a person too. I was just talking to an intern about that and just saying how those little pieces of being able to say, yeah, like, you know, on these skills with communication with my husband all the time, like we, you know, we hit each other's wins. We live with each other, you know, it's, yeah, it's not a perfect journey. And how would it be like, we're, we're just learning, we're like, you know, kids, and we just continually are learning different tools. And so it's just as we go along that journey, where we're just helping each other and I went to a conference and there was a therapist who says he has this picture of the blind leading the blind. And I didn't realize how true that is. And how really that into the film. I love that. Yes, like the more I learned, the more I realized, Oh, I didn't know. And then how much I still have to learn. And then working on this journey, I look at different trainings and I'm like, whoa, like, there's so much out there. And it's just finding the tools that work for us really well. Right. Yeah. Well, that's why I love everything I know so far about finding peace. Because truly, you do find peace when you are working in these areas. But it's so simple. I mean, this whole thing, and it goes together so well. And like you were talking about, oh, it allows that. So just that boy knows he's going to be cited in my zero symposium session. Oh, let's let's all be included. I'll make sure he's this is information that people need because, I mean, I feel really educated in pretty like far out topics, you know, like, I'm pretty open to stuff. And this was like, okay, but how did you know I needed this? This is exactly my life, you know, like the final piece to like bring all my learning together, you know? Yeah, I love that. Yeah, that's what I love about it is. Yeah, it's many methods that are just like the perfect pieces coming together. So I was thinking of, oh, I could do a chart with you. And I'm like, oh, actually, there's one on the finding piece that I did with Troy about my loss. So if you check that out there, then he goes through one of the charts with me. And he actually does a season of people going through the chart with him. So they bring up something that was, yeah, they're whatever wound it was, neglect, rejection, abandonment, and then they go through it. And yeah, it's just a beautiful process. And it's different for everybody. And there's some people who I like one person's a therapist, and I'm like, mind blown by like, whoa, they have a different kind of method. And then I see people who like do not know the method and Troy's able to bring them through that. And I'd say I was kind of like in the middle there a little through that art with him. And yeah, it's just beautiful to see how he's able to lead me through it. With the website. And I said, hey, we need to go there because I need to meet Troy, and we can see your family. And it'll be good. It'll be good. And I can learn stuff. What do you think? He's like, okay. Yeah. Yeah, the husband's get there like, okay, you're happy. Yeah, whatever you need to keep your sanity. That's like, I'm just glad you're not crying anymore. So what he told me how to keep that up, please. Yeah, if you have any questions about the method, or what do you feel like would be helpful? Well, the part that people have resonated the most with is, well, the simplicity, like, you know, talking about it was real. I mean, the shadows of shame. That's the part everybody. That's why I was so excited because I had just learned about shame that I had it, you know, and we talked about it and it was life-changing for me. So it's starting to like, roll in as people hear like me too. But I think also, there was a couple people who like me were like, so impressed with your ability to be like this, you know, if I don't know what Troy allows or doesn't allow, but maybe the whatever you're allowed, like, you've kind of mentioned the labels a little bit, like the judge talking about as much of that as you're allowed to. Yeah, the things that you've said so far with those have really resonated with me. And so I feel like that's something everybody could benefit from. Yeah, I actually go into detail explaining my shadows of shame on the podcast. And yeah, I can go through that really quick. And it is in the book, but it took me quite a while to figure that out. But the judge, it's anything that a like judge, you know, somebody judging you like, you know, don't should on yourself kind of a statement. So, you know, you should have could have would have like, why didn't you do this judging you kind of comments. And then we have the royal, which is judging other people kind of comments. And so that's the, did we talk about the last time where it's like, okay, so somebody's trying to park in this parking spot. And it's your parking spot. And so you're like, oh, you know, the royal, the royal. Okay, so this is why we use this example, because this is like, this is, this is the example that people resonate with. So this is why I'm using it. So so many of us can be like, yep, been there or like in traffic or something. But the, yeah, the royal. And so it's like, oh, how dare they like park in your spot? Like, you know, who do they think they are? Yeah. And so then, well, and then the judge will come back down like, yeah, why are you afraid of your spot? Like, you know, you rude person, you know, to, yeah, the judge will be saying that to us like right after that. But the royals like, don't look at that person. Like, they saw you coming. That was your spot. No, I don't know this park. I don't own this parking lot. Okay, thanks, royal, for trying to show up for me. I see that you're trying to help me get my needs met that hit my projection wound, because they, you know, they saw me or whatever wound it hit, you know, like, you know, I don't feel like it was enough or whatever. Or beliefs are that it hits. So it's kind of got to hit that hit that pain. And then it hits whatever wound that rejection core belief that's attached to that the negative core belief, like I'm not enough or I'm not worthy of whatever, you know, and then shuttle the shame come out to like protect us there. So that's the example there. And then the martyr for me, and it's different for everybody, it can be like a thing, it can be a person. Some people are like, it's a loud microphone or something like that for the judge. But like, for me, they're people that not people that I know, because it's literally not them. And you know, some people be like, Oh, it sounds like my mom or dad. And I'm like, or that's changed that up a little bit because we know that's not them. And you know, it's, it's just about taking these thoughts and we're dismissing them. We literally know it's not them. And, you know, make them older, younger, change the tone of voice. The martyr for me is like a woman from the 50s. And it's like, be the doormat for other people and whatever they need, you know, I'm clean up everything. And then that's how you gain your sense of worth. Like, I'm enough because I did this kind of thing. And then that might team up with the politician, they kind of hold hands together sometimes where it's like, and then your husband will like you or and then all those ladies. And then all those ladies that don't come to your house will like you because your house is clean. So impressed. And they're going to be jealous of all the things you have to. Yeah, and be perfect to look perfect at it all together. Politician, I like to explain to my client says like, just imagine a mask and all those things that like write those things on the front of the mask that you want people to see, like you got it all together, you're perfect mom, you know, like your mental health together, all this other stuff. And then on the back, yeah, like write down those things you don't want people to know. And then I'm like, we'll show people that. Okay, that's what the politicians tell you not to show like people, like, don't like that. Oh, Mark doesn't like fear in me. Like in the back of the mask. Yeah. Yeah, especially when I do this activity myself and I'm like, okay, this is not okay, I would be like, I'm feeling unsafe. Can you make sure that you're not looking in my direction? And then I'm writing it small and tiny print, like the especially the ones that I'm like, nobody looks like that, like that's, but that's like my politician. Okay, nobody looks like kind of high that little bit there. And hopefully don't ask us to share this and we're doing activity or whatever, especially foreign group. And then we end up sharing those things like in different groups and like just yeah, a little bit like at a time. And then we find out, oh my gosh, like other people are like me or, you know, maybe in different ways, but they're, and that's where we're able to have the connection. And healing, that's where we see the groups really come alive. And the feeling like it's beautiful to see people say like, oh, you too. And you're experiencing, even though it's different, they're like, oh, you understand what it's like to be in that place. I'm not the only one. It's like the connection. Yeah, royal, martyr, politician, rebel, like. You want my rebels real big? Yeah. And well, because I got a real good self sabotage situation, you know. Yeah, well, there's nothing about the needs like with them and or, you know, ourselves even, you know, just like eat that whole thing of ice cream by yourself or whatever it is. And so no matter what you can resonate with that one. When we engage in numbing behaviors, which shadows of shame commonly show up? And it's interesting to see we have an activity that we do when we check mark. And which ones do you think show up most for you? What what kind of comes to mind if you think of different numbing behaviors? I mean, there's the rebel that is definitely like like saying, hey, do this. Well, I would say probably I fight myself between the judge and the royal. I mean, really struggle with having this reaction. And then I've got this whole other person over here talking to me about this reaction and it is shame. And so yeah, hearing you call it the judge, I'm like, oh, okay. That's why that's happening. And just in that five minutes, I feel so much less crazy having a name for this. You know, that it's okay that I'm not schizophrenic if I have multiple things happening in my brain at once. Everybody understands that whole thing because they haven't been able to pinpoint or identify what's happening to them. Yeah. They just get it, but I feel kind of isolated about it sometimes. Because you say it and people just look at you like, I mean, I'll let you, but no, no clue what you're talking about, honey. And you're emotionally unavailable. I don't know what you're talking about. I mean, but yes, that thing that happens where I constantly just judge myself. Like if I lose my temper, the first thing that's going to come out of my mouth is great. Now I have another thing to feel guilty for. Awesome. I say that all the time because I mean, I do feel guilty. I do not want to make those types of mistakes. I hate it because it impacts the people I love, you know, like even being terse with Charlie because she's insisting on me opening a popsicle wall. I'm in crisis with a recording, you know, and I have to go freaking apologize to her. And I'm annoyed about it because she shouldn't have been in my bedroom. And then my dog wants to bark in the corner a little minute. So, you know, it's, I feel guilty all the time for being a human. But it's just because I know my humanness is ruining my daughter sometimes, you know, like I just really feel the impact of my actions all the time because I'm a daughter who suffered greatly at the hands of her parents. And it's really hard not to transfer that a little bit, you know. Yeah. Yeah. That's a client like that I was experiencing that. Okay. So what shadows a shame we're showing up for you and what were they saying and how are they trying to protect you or the ones that you love? Like you mentioned, they're trying to help you not have that, you know, same experience that your children have the same experience. So it's also, you can also say, it's helping someone I love. Okay. Yeah. So like it's saying to the shadow of shame, like, why are you here? Oh, to help make sure that nobody gets hurt again, like I did. Or, yeah, or oh, it's such an unrealistic tradition. Well, I mean, just being careful with like the judge, you know, showing up and coming back on you like, why would you make that a big deal or whatever? Right. Well, I really mean that more with self-compassion. Like here I am again holding myself to perfectionist standards and continuing to see how that pops up in my life and didn't even realize it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I love that you're able to look at that from a self-compassion kind of standpoint and be like, oh, okay. Like I see that that's not me. That's not what I want in my life. And what I do want is I want to do that, but I want to do it in like a healthy way. So I'm going to say thanks, shadows of shame. And I'm going to say, okay, how am I going to do that? Well, what's the healthy way that I can connect with my family in that way? And maybe, you know, it's drawing healthy boundaries. Like, oh, I'm not able to help you right now. I love you and, you know, from with love, like, and I need to do this for right now. And it's okay to say like, and, you know, I'm frustrated. I have some things that are going on right now. It's probably in that moment because it's like the amygdala kind of thing. And we said the the royal comes up with those different numbing behaviors and the judge. And so it's just watching that pattern because yeah, sometimes I'll have like the judge that comes up and it's like, Jenny, you have to be perfect. You have to do that, which perfectionism can be the numbing behavior there. And then, but then it's like, I'm doing so much like with the judge. I'm in that fight or flight for so long that my body is like, oh, you need to take it down. You know, like, you need to go into shut down because we can't maintain this. And that's where we're going into like the numbing and then isolating. And the royal is like, you deserve this. And and then the royal is actually one that's pretty sneaky. And people don't notice that one is much like, oh, you know, is there somebody that's getting judged there? Okay. And also, I have shame about the royal showing up and the politician will come in and be like, tell people that you think that about somebody else. Yeah. And so it's good to talk about these things because it's like, oh, I experienced that. I think we got all of them, but those are the shadows of shame that love to show up. Oh, and the impotent one. Yeah, that's like yours embodiment and personality. Like, you know, it's always going to be this way. It's never going to get better. Never going to work out for you. You're never going to overcome OCD. You're numbing behavior, addiction, whatever. Like, and might as well give up rebel intro. That's why they find so much. Okay, that makes me happy. Honestly, now I understand why they're all fighting each other. And that just makes me feel 100% less crazy. I feel really good right now. Yeah. So the people will be like, I'm always in my head. And I'm like, take that out because that's not you. Give this shame a name like you're talking about. And that's where we're shining the light on them and I'm like, hey, I see you. Okay. And then, okay, what are you trying to help me do? Okay. How can I get made that? You don't need me in a healthy way there. So, yeah. Well, just off the top of your head before you go. Because I know we're ready to play and it's my fault. I have this tendency. I'm wondering if you can identify which shadow this is. I have this tendency to, this was why I was even having to, you know, disseminate yesterday. But I like to, when I'm really upset, not accept accountability for things and start blame in my mind. I don't say things to people. But I'm like, I mean, if they would just blah, blah, blah, blah, then I wouldn't, blah, blah, blah. You know, what is that? What do you call that? Would I want you to address the actual shame? So, I start to blame everyone around me. Which shadow is that? Okay. So, I'm going to take it outside of yourself. And it's saying it's judging other people. Like, I can't believe so and so. So, you're putting it into a person. I can't believe so and so is doing X, Y, and Z. They should be doing it this way. Like, why are they doing it that way? So, that's what I'm hearing you say. It's that kind of, okay. So, which one does the, you know, like, pointing fingers? So, the judge judges you and the royal judges other people. So, okay. Yeah, I'm real good at that. Thank you so much for your time today. Troy, okay. We can be posting a picture of that book on my site. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's good. Well, I'm going to talk about it. It was great talking to you. All right. Yeah. Well, you're good. It's life. So, that's what we're doing, you know. Hey, hey, hey. What do you say? Listen. First and foremost, please make sure that you have provided this podcast with a five-star rating on whichever platform that you are listening. If you want to support the show, please rate, like, and share. Also, like, comment, and share on any social media posts that you see from me on Instagram or Facebook or TikTok. Please follow the podcast Facebook. Emotionally unavailable podcast. You can shop my foot online, store, or schedule a one-on-one with me. Emotionally unavailable podcast.org. I'm offering what I'm calling non-traditional counseling, astrology readings, and tarot readings, and self-publishing services. And thank you so much for listening to the Emotionally unavailable podcast. All right, guys. All my dogs have done last third damn mine in the last five minutes. So, you know, if you're barking, you're just going to have to let it go. I hope that you loved this episode with Ginny Kempton, LMSW, as much as I did. And she actually sent me a bunch of resources to give out, like online stuff. And I want to, but I don't have time to be able to give you a thorough explanation of those right now because I had to do a quick turnaround from record time to post time. So, I will put those on my Facebook soon. And I hope that you guys are doing well and taking care of yourself. Remember to feed your mind, body, and spirit. And you've got to get out in nature, take a hike, go for a swim and a pond or a lake, and make sure you're getting the sun on your body, drink your water, and get physical contact with people. Do hugs for a minute, if you can. Make eye contact. Say how you're feeling and what you need. And take up as much space, man. And by God, if I had a steady income, I'd be getting myself another woo-woo tattoo right now. So, okay, I've rambled long enough. Thank you for listening, guys. I really do appreciate you. And thank you for your kind words. If you have not gotten a chance to look at my website, please do that. Thank you again. I'm serious. If I forgot anything, I'm sorry. And until next time. This all just keeps swimming. (Music) Emotionally unavailable. I-N-D-E-P-E and CUT.