A lot of traders dream about trading and traveling the world as trading brings a lot of freedom. But is this really laying with a laptop on the beach with a tropical drink?
In this episode of The Confidence in Trading Podcast, we dive into the exciting world of trading while traveling with our guest, Peter Vandiver, a trader who dared to break the boundaries of conventional trading.
Peter’s traveled from his home country, the USA, through Europe, Asia, and even down under in Australia. And now from the other part of the globe, he will humorously dispel all the myths of trading and traveling for us and share his perspective on how it really looks.
Get valuable insights on how to prepare for trading in different time zones, tips for trading on the go, and factors to consider when choosing your destinations. Plus, find out whether internet connectivity and varying market conditions pose any challenges.
So, buckle up and prepare for an exhilarating ride as we venture into the world of global trading!
About Peter Vandiver
Peter Vandiver is a day trader from Charleston, South Carolina. He’s been dedicated full time to trading for 2 years now, with about 5 years of experience trading. Prior to trading full time, Peter spent about 10 years working for tech companies building products. Some of those products were for traders and investors, and it’s possible the trading systems you use today may have been worked on by Peter. He’s also an avid traveler, who is half way through a trip around the world, currently in Tbilisi, Georgia. He’s also a writer and a fitness junkie.
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Transcript
[00:00:04.170] - Agnieszka
Welcome back to another episode of Confidence in Trading, the podcast where we deep dive into different perspectives to help you navigate through this fascinating but challenging world of trading. I am your host, Agnieszka Wood, and today we have a special story to share with you. Join us as we embark on a captivating journey with a trader who has taken his trading to a global level. Welcome to episode Trading Across Borders. Today my guest is Peter Vandiver. Hi, Peter, welcome to my show!
[00:00:37.880] - Peter
Hello. Thank you for having me.
[00:00:40.110] - Agnieszka
Peter, you have been trading since five years, but full-time since two. And prior to trading, you worked for technical companies and you were building products, which some of them were for traders and investors, is that right?
[00:00:55.520] - Peter
Yeah, that's right. So I was working for a couple of different tech companies and sort of like tech adjacent companies, I guess you could say, some of them in the trading and investing space. And I worked on some of the teams that evolved the systems and products that people use to trade. So, yeah, you might use one, maybe. Depends on what platform you're on.
[00:01:17.690] - Agnieszka
That's cool. That's really cool. I am so excited to have you here today because you are currently doing what many people, who are getting into trading have been dreaming of for years, that is, trading while traveling the world. And you are originally from Charleston, South Carolina, but that's not where you are currently, correct? Can you tell us where you are and how did that come about?
[00:01:43.810] - Peter
Yeah, that's right. So currently I'm in Tbilisi, Georgia, which for those who are not up to step on their geography, it's sort of between Russia and Turkey near the Black Sea. Yeah. I've been traveling for, I think it's three months now. Prior to this, I was in Australia and Bali and spent a little bit of time in Dubai. Decided to kind of just pick up things and travel for a while. Kind of got bored of just like, trading in my house, more or less, so wanted to mix it up. I've done a lot of traveling through my life, COVID happened, didn't do any traveling and so now that I don't have. A regular day job, I just kind of decided to commit and get as much in as I could. It's been pretty eye opening to travel and trade. I think people often think of the bubble they're in when they're trading and how if they change little things about their environment, it impacts their trading. But it's intense when you pick up all your stuff and move it halfway around the world for a month, try to trade somewhere else.
[00:02:57.130] - Agnieszka
I cannot even imagine what impact it has on trading because for me, even if I change my daily routine at home, right, if for some reason, I don't know, I will go to a party and then get up later than normal and just kind of mix up my morning routine. I can already see the impact on how I feel and then how I stand in front of my computer. So changing completely your whole rhythm, your time zones, your environment, and not being in your own having your own setup and everything. It's even hard to imagine how that influences you. But we'll talk about it more in details before we get there. I actually have a question about at what point did you think, okay, now it's time to do it? Because many traders have this idea I want to travel, but then they are not consistent yet, and they think like, okay, I first have to make it. I have to first be successful in order to actually make that step. Was it also for you or you thought, you know what, this is what I always wanted to do and I'm just going to do it.
[00:04:05.090] - Peter
Yeah. I think you have to weigh your financial circumstance first if trading is your primary stream of income and you don't have much of a cushion, then I think traveling could incur some costs that would definitely impact your thought processes while you're trading. I think I'm lucky in regards to having an alternate revenue stream that provides enough to make traveling. I can't buy champagne when I go out to the restaurants, but I can cover some of the expenses so that allows me to commit to. Traveling without being a successful trader. I'm still not, I'd say to the point where I'm making the kind of money I want to make from trading, I'd say I'm consistently flat trader. Yeah, so it wasn't hard for me to pull the trigger, but a lot of it had to do with the fact that I already had financial cushion and have a revenue stream alternative to trading.
[00:05:08.710] - Agnieszka
Okay, so alternative sources of income. I hear this coming back a lot with traders who are still building their career to successful trading, that it is really important. And from the mindset perspective, it is so key to have some other income, especially when you start, when you try to build your consistency so that you don't have that pressure of I have to pay my bills. And was that always your dream to trade and travel? Because you trade for a living for two years now. Did you always think about it or was it just more I like traveling and trading is something what I do.
[00:05:46.770] - Peter
Yeah. I think it's more of the second. I love to travel. Trading is something that happens a lot in my life. I don't think I'll be a permanent traveler. I think if you had to say I love something, I love not being tied down to anything, which takes the shape of traveling around a lot and seeking things like trading as a means of income. Yeah.
[00:06:10.150] - Agnieszka
And a day trading. Right. You're also not tied up to something for too long.
[00:06:15.130] - Peter
Yeah. Don't bring that swing stuff in. I don't want any of that.
[00:06:20.570] - Agnieszka
Is it not being bound for too long, or is it the immediate reward? Which one?
[00:06:26.970] - Peter
I don't know. We'll have to consult my mother. I think at this point, I'm not entirely sure.
[00:06:34.590] - Agnieszka
Okay, I hear some backstory there, but let's keep focus on traveling. So is the reality the way you have pictured it? Sometimes you see people trading at the pool and being on the beach and relaxing, chilling in a hammock and trading. Is this how you experience traveling and trading?
[00:07:01.180] - Peter
No, I'm pretty sure those people are just like trying to create a facade. To click on their Instagram story. I still need a quiet environment where I can focus that's absolute. And then during the week, I don't do a whole lot of vacation related activities. I'll go to a museum here or there, go meet someone for dinner but I'm not going out and partying. I'm still trying to keep my mind. Quick witted for when I do trade for a couple of hours in the evenings. And that has proved me well. I think initially the changes that come with a new environment impacted me pretty intensely. But I've been through a couple moves I guess you could say, and they don't really impact me as much. And I'm starting to wonder if that has created some type of resilience in me. I've noticed it in other kind of problems, area problem areas that I track that have dissipated a bit in recent months. So I'm wondering if maybe shaking things up, making my bubble, shifting my bubble and forcing me to go through that practice has, in a way, made me. Kind of get past a sensitivity I had. I would say I probably was more on the sensitive end. If you were to rank traders on how sensitive they are to environmental changes. I was probably very sensitive, I'd say I'm probably less sensitive, obviously now. And I think that's probably showing through. It's kind of hard to say exactly what causes the changes, the outcomes in your trading, but I think that's playing a role.
[00:08:46.190] - Agnieszka
So you build kind of immunity to changing the environment and different factors impacting how you feel.
[00:08:53.190] - Peter
Right, I think so.
[00:08:56.890] - Agnieszka
That's interesting. One thing that we talk about how the travel influences your trading, and now you're saying, I travel and I don't do much like the travel related stuff, like the like if you go to a different location, of course you want to see as much as possible, especially if you fly all the way to Australia. And I think you've been to Bali as well, right? So does actually trading influences your travel? Did you imagine your travel to look like that? Or did you think, like, oh, I will see so much of the country, and now you're kind of thinking, if I do that, then my trading is going to suffer.
[00:09:40.730] - Peter
Well, so trading is my priority. The travel is great, and I'm lucky to have the opportunity, but for me trading is the priority. So that means on a day where I'm trading, that's going to dictate the activities for that day. Doesn't mean I don't like, go outside, but I'm going to get good sleep, I'm going to get some exercise, I'm going to eat well. I'm going to do some reading, maybe some meditation review trades. Right. The standard day where I trade, and that's the priority. And where space is available, I slide in which there's plenty of I slide in all sorts of activities. I go visit various places, try to meet up with people, see the sites.
[00:10:28.910] - Agnieszka
Okey, yeah. Because otherwise why would you travel? Right. If you would just stay home, then you can stay just home and do that, right? Yeah.
[00:10:38.430] - Peter
I mean, you're still only trading like a couple of hours a day, so there's still plenty of time. It's just a matter of what activities you pick and which ones are going to impact your trading negatively.
[00:10:48.470] - Agnieszka
So for our listeners, you're trading futures and options, is that correct?
[00:10:55.090] - Peter
Yes.
[00:10:56.470] - Agnieszka
So what kind of challenges did you encounter when you moved to the other side of the Earth in terms of the time zone? Because I think you actually had to switch your strategy. Right? Did you ever even think about it, that this will be the case?
[00:11:15.050] - Peter
No. So before I left, I was trading futures of the US Indices during regular market hours as well as options on stocks during regular market hours. Obviously, if I go to Australia, I can't trade stocks because the stock market is closed while I am awake, but the futures markets are open. So I spent some time running through data back testing. My strategy against overnight sessions, early morning sessions for futures, and the setup that I primarily focus on worked is there I did not do enough back testing over different market regimes. So an issue I ran into was volatility kind of got sucked out of the market mid-spring if you pull up an S&P 500 chart and, you can see there's a string of days in there where pretty tight average daily range. Right. And so that impacted how well my setup worked, even in the overnight sessions. So it was tougher than I was expecting. I was expecting there to be less setups, I'd have to be more patient, which I think actually had some other effects on me that were positive in. The long run, but ultimately things just were harder and it really just comes back to not doing enough back testing. And I wish I had somehow found a way to simulate trading in those overnight sessions before I went to prepare, because the way the candles move, the way the price moves is just different. I didn't realize how reliant I was on spastic. Movements of price to indicate a potential change is coming, or like a violent movement of a candle where someone's probably placing massive orders on the tape right. As those being kind of things. Maybe they were kind of like in the background of my head. I wasn't truly aware of them as being key to my setup reading. And now they kind of are. Now I can articulate them because I took them away and was going, oh my God, what's wrong here?
[00:13:28.370] - Agnieszka
Yeah, what's wrong with the market?
[00:13:30.290] - Peter
Right.
[00:13:32.550] - Agnieszka
So you were talking about switching your strategy, but also when you switched the time zone, how did it affected you personally, physically? Were you as effective and efficient and did you feel the same way when you were trading?
[00:13:48.830] - Peter
You know, once I got past the massive jet lag that you experienced from flying from the US to Australia. Which took a while. I did feel pretty normal though. Trading in the evenings is different than trading in the morning. I think it took a while for me to get used to that. I don't have as much of attention span in the evening as I do during the day.
[00:14:15.490] - Agnieszka
Did you know that about?
[00:14:17.190] - Peter
No, no, I had no idea. And then I think also just not like knowing what's going on, what the big moves are happening without just checking Twitter or whatever to the news. Right. Not being as tapped into that had. Some sort of residual effect on my confidence. I don't think it actually had any material effect on my trading, but it was something I was used to. So it just made me feel like. I wasn't aware of where the market was at.
[00:14:49.840] - Agnieszka
Like you were out of the loop..
[00:14:52.140] - Peter
Right.
[00:14:52.880] - Agnieszka
Any other challenges that you encountered while you were overseas? Like maybe, let's say the technical setup. Normally you have your desk, you have your chair, and now suddenly you are in a rented apartment or a hotel and you have your laptop. I think I can imagine you taking an extra screen or something.
[00:15:12.900] - Peter
Yeah, so I have a laptop and then I fly with like a smaller screen that I can plug in that hopefully doesn't get busted up by the airline crews who moved the luggage around. But so far it's working. It's got a little crack in it move, but it still works. So fingers crossed it'll make it the rest of the way. Yeah. So that's less screens from what I was trading before so I had to kind of mix up just like what my setup was. For monitoring price action while I trade, which hasn't been as challenging as I was expecting. That's been pretty straightforward. I think one thing that came to light is I was expecting it to be easier to trade other assets from other countries. So I had done research, done some backtesting, analyzed other major Indices, the Hang Seng, the DAX, the FTSE, and was more or less ready to trade those. But it's not as easy to get hooked up to trade as it is in the States. The brokerages are far more expensive elsewhere as well as the volatility is just not as good. And I think the takeaway there is I just didn't realize how much better just trading is in the US. It's just a better environment all around.
[00:16:41.330] - Agnieszka
Speaking of better and something what I think we take for granted, how was your internet connection?
[00:16:47.810] - Peter
Oh yeah, forgot about that. That was a big one in Bali. It was crazy. It would just stop. There would just be no internet or no cell phone for like 3 hours. Just spontaneously it would just stop. Yeah, that happened a number of times. Luckily, never while I had a trade on did things cut out. But there were times where I was like, I don't know if I should be trading right now. The data is not refreshing very quickly. So yeah, that was a little hairy. But that was definitely the worst of it. Outside of that, haven't had internet issues.
[00:17:26.110] - Agnieszka
Okay.
[00:17:26.830] - Peter
Something to watch out for if you're going to travel, for sure.
[00:17:29.380] - Agnieszka
Yeah. And now you are in Euroasia, actually on the border in the country. Is that a little bit easier because now you are closer to the US. So also different times. Do you notice any difference in your trading results since you moved from Asia?
[00:17:48.600] - Peter
Yeah, so once I moved from Asia to Georgia, Georgia puts me close enough to the US. To where I can at least trade the morning hours for the US. Market. So I'm back to trading regular volatility. And yeah, my stats went way back up immediately. Once I started trading these normal.Sessions again, it was kind of wild. Like, oh my gosh, I forgot trading was this fun and easy. This is why I liked trading to begin with, right? Yeah, it was eye opening.
[00:18:25.330] - Agnieszka
So many traders want to travel and trade. I hear it constantly. It's one of the biggest goals. Right? I want to have freedom and I want to travel the world and trade. Were you able to keep your regular routine in the traveling sense? Because I put a lot of focus on the routine in your trading to make sure that you have consistency in your routine because that builds discipline and discipline gives you consistent results. How was impact on your routine while traveling?
[00:19:00.760] - Peter
Yeah, so routine obviously shifted quite a bit, but I'm pretty adamant about a couple, I guess facets of my day no matter what I'm doing, which is getting good sleep, getting some meditation, eating healthy, eating well and getting ample exercise. And so no matter where I go, that's always going to be a part of it. And as long as I can kind of try to fit them together so everything works smoothly for the day and I have some time to relax before I trade, it kind of works out pretty smoothly. I think if I didn't have that, if I couldn't figure that out. When I got to a new place, I think things would be pretty ugly. But I've been lucky enough.
[00:19:43.840] - Agnieszka
Did you plan on that before? Did you on purpose choose places where you thought, okay, I need a place that will be close to the gym or park, where I can walk, et cetera.
[00:19:55.640] - Peter
Yeah, absolutely. That's usually what I'm looking for, is an area that's not too expensive, where there's a gym, I can find good food. I can cook some meals myself. There's some green space nearby. Try to find a place that's not too loud. Yeah, I think that has made a big difference if it wasn't for that, things would be difficult.
[00:20:18.760] - Agnieszka
Okay. And one more thing I wanted to ask you is about the social life, because life of a trader is pretty lonely, and unless you have friends that you can talk about trading, it's pretty much you. And maybe some chat rooms that you can hang out with other traders to share your experience. While you were on the trip, going through all these challenges, did you find anyone that you could talk to about it? Or were you, like, calling friends from home or maybe you found some friends that were asking you on the trip, what are you doing? And you're like, I'm traveling and trading. Living the dream.
[00:21:03.830] - Peter
Yeah. It's funny you bring that up because one of the people I've been spending some time with here in Georgia is a crypto trader but is wild we have very different ways of trading, and I'm not going to be taking any of his advice, though he seems to be doing pretty well. So yeah you never know you're going to run into for sure when you're traveling. That's funny. Outside of him, I haven't run into other traders. It has been easy to meet people. I'm shocked at how many people are similar to me. They're just, like, traveling around, even, like people who are a little bit older, not like backpackers in college.
[00:21:51.840] - Agnieszka
Right.
[00:21:52.850] - Peter
There's a lot, and everybody just wants to meet up, get a coffee, go for a walk, grab dinner. It's pretty easy.
[00:21:58.890] - Agnieszka
That's cool. So a lot of people are traveling and trading, or they are also doing other things while traveling.
[00:22:09.290] - Peter
I don't know where the traders are. I mean, I see them on Twitter, right? They all know the Lambo by the cappuccino spot in Rome, but I haven't seen that guy yet.
[00:22:21.630] - Agnieszka
Are you going to Rome eventually? Maybe you meet them!
[00:22:25.870] - Peter
Yeah, there's a chance.
[00:22:30.190] - Agnieszka
So can you tell us a little bit about where are you with your trading? I'm asking because if you had a chance to start this global journey all over, would you do anything differently? Do you feel it was a good moment for you to do this trip in terms of where you are with trading?
[00:22:50.150] - Peter
I think if you had asked me that a month ago, I would have said, bad idea. But now that I've had some more time to progress as I've been traveling. I think it was a very good idea. I think definitely damaged my stats for a little bit. But now I can kind of see that things my practice has changed a little bit because of the traveling. And when you just shake things up, you discover all sorts of weird stuff. I think a good example for me that is pretty obvious to most trade or they could relate to is a problem I used to have is like blow ups, is I would trade really well for like, two weeks, three weeks and then one day, just wasn't trading well. Just couldn't get synced with the market and would place a bunch of bad trades. And you look at the record over three weeks like, well, it's not a big deal, but didn't matter. It would shake my confidence so much that I wouldn't be able to trade for a whole week, right? It would throw me for such a loop. And those have kind of gone away. And I think there's two reasons one is shaking my bubble up, so having the environment shift and having to change the environment over and over and over again. But then also a lot of analysis, self analysis about how I'm thinking, how I'm feeling when those days occur, before those days occur, showed me that it had a lot to do with being tired or my system was too revved up. And so I would force trades a lot on the market. And I found another way to measure this, as opposed to just like trying to guess whether I'm in a good headspace or not. And I did it because I was playing this stupid little chess app on my phone while I was flying from the US. To Australia, where clearly my mental ability was, like, decreasing as the flight, the 17 hours flight went longer and longer, and I could see I could compete with worse and worse. I was losing to worse and worse chess bots. Like, oh, I'm going to start playing. I'll play a quick game of chess before I trade, see where I'm at.
[00:24:57.140] - Agnieszka
Oh, wow.
[00:24:58.670] - Peter
And I could be like, I'm in that state where I'm going to place bad trades. So that's where I started. I was like, all right, I need to chill out. I need to go for a walk, take a break, or maybe not trade today, right? And that had an impact. And then the next crazy thing happened is I would be playing chess and be like, I'm in that bad space. And then I could force myself to think better while I was playing chess and get myself out of the thinking process. And so now I just play chess before I trade. And it's like a game changer. It's weird, but I never would have discovered that. I would have just stayed at home and kept thinking, well, I just have these days I need to deal with them. I would have never stumbled across this weird little pattern to potentially get out of it.
[00:25:41.070] - Agnieszka
That's so cool. That's so interesting. You see how sometimes we think maybe it's something random, but then it has a purpose and then it serves us to our advantage. This is really cool. So when you said you are able to get yourself into a different headspace, is it like by doing something or just by changing your thoughts?
[00:26:03.370] - Peter
I think it's because when I'm playing the chess app, I can see me making bad decisions more clearly. They take my queen and I'm angry. So then I make a bad move after, it's more visual, it's more obvious and be like, stop doing I can get mad at myself. Stop doing that. Start over. And if I do that enough times, it can kick me out of this lazy, exhausted thinking cycle, which I believe is what is ultimately causing those blow up days.
[00:26:36.910] - Agnieszka
So basically you do kind of a pattern interruption doing that and then put yourself on a different path.
[00:26:44.620] - Peter
I think that's what it's like. The chess is like, you see more granular actions that you're taking, whereas with trading, it's like sometimes you get rewarded for bad behavior, you get punished for good behavior, and that can make it difficult to really see what's going on and that confusing feedback cycle is always on.
[00:27:02.150] - Agnieszka
Got you. Yeah. Plus, in trading, you can always talk some things well to yourself. Right. Especially if you get saved. It's like, okay, yeah, it's fine, it's fine. So this became part of your process now that you play chess every time before you trade.
[00:27:17.470] - Peter
Yeah, I just pick up the app. And in the 20 minutes where I'm kind of just relaxing, looking at charts before the market opens, I'll play a couple of games of chess, see where I'm at mentally. And if I'm really losing the bots that I normally compete with, I'll make, sure I can at least get a good game in. And if I'm concerned about the decisions. I'm making, like I'm being vengeful against the bots, if they beat me and I start making really stupid decisions, then I know something's up and that's when I have to take a step back and assess and try to get myself out of that.
[00:27:55.640] - Agnieszka
Guys, this is a really cool idea and if any of you like playing chess, maybe worth trying. Who knows, right?
[00:28:05.290] - Peter
Yeah.
[00:28:05.800] - Agnieszka
Is there anything else that you could share with us that you think would be helpful to know or maybe how to prepare before people will venture on a trip? Like that something that you wish you would have done before you went on a trip.
[00:28:29.410] - Peter
I think if you're going to be trading in a different time zone where you're trading different assets or different sessions, try to find a way to trade those before you go just so you really back testing is not the same as live trading. I think you got a live trade. That was a big mistake I made. Hopefully others can avoid it.
[00:28:54.430] - Agnieszka
All right, cool. And what's the next stop of your trip and how long are you still going to travel for?
[00:29:02.590] - Peter
Yeah, I'll be in Athens starting this weekend for it's probably going to be a month. There's a chance I'll venture down to the islands as well. Still not sure about that. And then after that, either southern coast of Italy or Barcelona, I'm not sure yet.
[00:29:25.620] - Agnieszka
Very nice.
[00:29:26.300] - Peter
And then I think I'll be in europe probably through early fall to mid fall, and then I need to come back to the States for a wedding. And then maybe to Mexico for a little while. Not sure yet.
[00:29:43.530] - Agnieszka
Oh, wow, that's quite a round trip. So it will be almost a year because when did you leave?
[00:29:52.590] - Peter
It'll probably be like eight or nine months when I make it back to the States.
[00:29:56.830] - Agnieszka
Wow, very cool. While you're in Greece and you consider some islands, I highly recommend Corfu. It's a really beautiful, very small island, but it's really nice. A lot of movies recorded there, very picturesque.
[00:30:14.730] - Peter
I will check it out.
[00:30:15.900] - Agnieszka
Well, that brings us to the end of this episode and thank you so much, Peter, for joining us and sharing your experience. I'm sure that your story has answered a lot of questions that many traders that are dreaming of trading from all over the world might have been asking themselves. Remember, be careful what you wish for. Sometimes what you imagine and expect does not turn out exactly as you thought it would. So always be prepared. And as trading as a business, before you start thinking about conducting your business from elsewhere, make sure that you know it is possible and that you have all the tools and everything in the right place so that your business will not suffer and that you also can thrive and enjoy the process. Thank you again, Peter, for your time today and I wish you a great continuation of your journey and of course, a lovely summer in Europe.
[00:31:19.430] - Peter
Thanks for having me. That was fun!
[00:31:21.480] - Agnieszka
Thank you for listening to the Confidence in Trading podcast. If you enjoy my show, please rate it, review it on Apple podcasts and be sure to subscribe so you can come back for real life conversation in the next episode. Until then, this is from Ahead Coach. And don't forget, you too can realize your dream without losing yourself and your confidence in the process.
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