Confidence in Trading

Following the Process

In this episode, Brian talks with Agnieszka about his systematic approach to trading that is helping traders to take control of their profits and make them predictable. Brian's unique approach is born out of his experience as a Quality Assurance Engineer and he puts emphasis on the importance of a proper trading system. Most traders fail even when they have well-planned trading strategies, and according to Brian it is because they lack the knowledge of how to do the job. Having a system that allows for consistent execution of trading strategy, skills and knowledge and an outside perspective are key to profitability.

Broadcast on:: 19 May 2023

Brian stresses the importance of having the system in place right from the start, as most traders develop poor trading habits during their first few months.This beginning phase is where every day is often characterized by impulsive, emotional, undisciplined, and haphazard trading. Jumping from one approach to another, lured by the prospect of making quick profits or experimenting with different indicators and strategies, seeking the next big money-making technique. For Brian it is fairly simple. If you want to be a successful trader, there's three things that you need: a good system to start with, the skills and the knowledge, and an outside perspective such as a coach, because most traders limit themselves.

About Brian McAboy

Brian McAboy is known as “The Consistency Coach” as he brings a unique, unconventional and very effective approach to getting traders consistently profitable fast, as in a matter of weeks. Brian’s background as a Process Engineer and Quality Assurance Engineer give him perspectives that are completely different from most trading educators. As a result, he will allow you to see your trading from a whole new angle, one which can definitely help you to be a better trader.

On Brian’s website you can check out “The Science of Consistency Applied to Trading” and also pick up a free copy of his wildly profitable report “The Proven Formula for Consistent Monthly Profits”.

Contact Agnieszka Wood | Ahead Coach:

Contact Brian McAboy | Inside Out Trading:

Transcript

[00:00:01.370] - Agnieszka Wood

I am Agnieszka Wood and on today's show, I am very excited to introduce my very special guest, Brian McAboy. Brian is a consistency coach and he's helping traders to take control of their trading profits and make them predictable. I ask Brian to join us today to discuss the importance of psychology in trading. A very hot topic these days. Brian, after working with hundreds of traders over the last 17 years, found that most don't have psychological issues, that there is nothing wrong with them, that they don't need to fix themselves, and they just have a lack of trading issues. And it's a matter of the right training for their success to come quickly, easily, and very naturally. And since I am a trading mindset coach, predominantly helping traders to overcome the psychological barriers that keep them stuck in failing cycles, I thought it would be incredibly insightful for everyone that is listening to talk with Brian about our point of view on the real issue that prevents most traders from achieving success. Welcome to episode number five, following the Process. Hi, Brian, and welcome to the Confidence in Trading podcast.

[00:01:25.540] - Brian McAboy

Well, hello, and thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here.

[00:01:28.270] - Agnieszka Wood

Brian, your background is in mechanical engineering, and being ASQ certified quality engineer, you understand processes, systems, and how to get consistent results by design. Right. And for over 20 years, you have been helping people to make their professional lives more effective and efficient so they can have higher quality personal lives, right?

[00:01:56.150] - Brian McAboy

Yes.

[00:01:57.430] - Agnieszka Wood

I find your approach incredibly interesting. I am a big fan of having routines that I guess are processes, in fact, because they assure that my days are efficient and my efforts are the most effective. But I also know that many people, not just traders, struggle to stick to their processes and routines. Why is that? What is your take on that?

[00:02:23.630] - Brian McAboy

Well, there are actually well, we need to distinguish between processes and routines. I look at routines as things that you do every day, regardless, okay, regardless of what the day is. You get up, you go to the shower, you get your coffee, brush your teeth, whatever. Those are your routine.

[00:02:42.540] - Agnieszka Wood

Right.

[00:02:42.790] - Brian McAboy

It doesn't matter what's going on. That's going to be it. Processes are going to be more specific to what's going on at the moment. For example, with trade trading, I like to use the metaphor of a football coach. Every play in football is different, and the coach doesn't show up with just one play to use on every down. Some plays it's first and ten, others it's second and long, maybe third and short. And depending on the circumstances, he's going to use a specific play for those circumstances. Now, each of those plays is a predefined process.

[00:03:18.910] - Agnieszka Wood

Okay. So it's pretty much based on what you want to achieve in certain circumstances. Right.

[00:03:26.950] - Brian McAboy

Same thing with the markets, because the markets aren't always the same. You might have a trending market, you might have consolidating market, right. Might have a reversing market. So the circumstances are different and there are very few strategies that you can use regardless of what the markets are doing. There are a few, but very few. And so you need to distinguish between, like I said, routines and processes. Processes are where you say, these are my circumstances, here's the appropriate process to apply.

[00:03:53.760] - Agnieszka Wood

Okay, so how does that apply then to trading strategy or a certain setup? Would you then say that if someone has strategy and for example, trade breakouts, right? Like I trade momentum stocks and I trade breakouts or breakdowns. The process for it depends on the market conditions. Right. I have to see like I mean, if the market is trending, that's probably not a very high probability that I get a breakout in a trend, not a trending market. What I'm saying, if it's in the range. Right. So does that mean that I would need another strategy for different type of market?

[00:04:33.430] - Brian McAboy

Yeah, because well, okay, as far as process applied trading, one of my favorite questions to ask traders is what is a trading system? And so if I ask you what is a trading system?

[00:04:51.390] - Agnieszka Wood

Yeah. So for me, trading system is my strategy. So what I trade and how I trade it. So I would define for myself, like, what do I need to see in order to enter what kind of parameters, in what kind of market conditions I'm looking for, my setup. So there have to be some sort of precondition if I'm even going to consider a certain instrument to trade, if it fits my parameters, and then defining parameters, where I enter, where I stopped out, and where I will be taking the profit and how I am managing my risk and how I manage my trade. Is that correct answer?

[00:05:32.170] - Brian McAboy

Okay, let's try this just for fun. What is a trading system in ten words or less?

[00:05:39.780] - Agnieszka Wood

Okay. How I do things, how I trade.

[00:05:43.710] - Brian McAboy

Okay, that's a good answer. Usually when I ask traders, they'll say, well, my system, it's my rules, or it's my rules and my indicators. That's usually the answer that I get. And the thing is, in truth, and looking at it from the quality assurance perspective, your trading system is what you do, right?

[00:06:02.710] - Agnieszka Wood

Yeah, because we have to do what we do consistently. Consistently.

[00:06:08.470] - Brian McAboy

The thing is, your system includes rules and indicators, but it's more than that, right? Because trading, if you think about it well, another question I like asking traders, what is trading? So to you, what is trading?

[00:06:24.350] - Agnieszka Wood

Yeah, that's a very good question. So trading for me is to look for opportunities and get the most out of them, out of the opportunities that the market gives me. So looking basically for yeah, it's a really good question. I think that's it, yeah. Looking for market opportunities and trying to get the most to make the most out of my money with at least possible risk. What is trading for you?

[00:06:53.090] - Brian McAboy

Well, the answer that I usually get when I ask people that what is trading? They'll say, well, it's buying and selling securities.

[00:07:00.150] - Agnieszka Wood

Yeah, that's shopping.

[00:07:02.390] - Brian McAboy

But it's actively buying and selling versus compared to investing, where it's buy and hold.

[00:07:07.210] - Agnieszka Wood

Right.

[00:07:07.790] - Brian McAboy

Trading is you're buying and selling for profit.

[00:07:10.420] - Agnieszka Wood

Right.

[00:07:10.920] - Brian McAboy

And the thing is, if you really think about it, the act of trading though, is it's a decision making process.

[00:07:21.630] - Brian McAboy

We're looking at the charts or the news or whatever, taking in information. We evaluate it against certain criteria and then we draw conclusions and make decisions based on that evaluation.

[00:07:33.830] - Agnieszka Wood

Right.

[00:07:34.530] - Brian McAboy

And it's just a series of decisions. That's all trading really is. It's not like we're physically going down to a marketplace and exchanging goods and money. We're making decisions and just clicking on stuff on the screen. But it's really important to look at things that way when we're talking about consistency. Because instead of saying, well, I see this kind of a market move, or I see that kind of a market move, my indicator is saying that and I want to jump on that because it's an opportunity. It's like, well, no, that's where a lot of traders get screwed up and they wind up with poor consistency because they're just chasing whatever they see.

[00:08:14.590] - Agnieszka Wood

So would you say that in order to achieve confidence in trading is basically a decision making process? You need to be consistently making the same decisions in the same situations?

[00:08:28.290] - Brian McAboy

You need to be consistent in how you make your decisions. Yes. How you make your decision the same, but you need to make them in a consistent manner.

[00:08:36.890] - Agnieszka Wood

Okay, so the how would be then the process, how you define the process, how you will be making the decision. Okay.

[00:08:43.530] - Brian McAboy

One of the biggest problems I've seen with traders is they're working with, well, another thing that's good to distinguish the difference between a strategy and a system. Because a strategy is not a system. They're not the same.

[00:08:56.510] - Agnieszka Wood

So what's the difference?

[00:08:58.330] - Brian McAboy

The strategy is how you plan to get in and out of the markets. Like, okay, I want to trade the trend. I'll get in at the beginning of the trend and get out when it's exhausted. That's a strategy. Your system is how are you going to do that 500 or 1000 times consistently?

[00:09:17.250] - Agnieszka Wood

Right.

[00:09:18.290] - Brian McAboy

They're not the same. There are tons of great strategies out there that are not good. But that strategy by itself does not make a good system. And that's what a lot of traders are working with. They've got like a good idea for a system, but it's a lousy system because the way their system is put together, it's not built for consistency, it's not built for repeatability.

[00:09:39.690] - Agnieszka Wood

That's so interesting and system because I always talk about to my students, I always talk about process and I talk in general about following the process. Do you see system as a process or are these two for you, different things?

[00:09:54.240] - Brian McAboy

Oh, no, absolutely. The system is a process.

[00:09:56.900] - Agnieszka Wood

Okay. So we just call them differently.

[00:09:59.050] - Brian McAboy

You ever heard of Edward Deming?

[00:10:01.070] - Agnieszka Wood

I have not.

[00:10:02.400] - Brian McAboy

He's a quality guru back in the 70s. He's the American that the Japanese automotive manufacturers hired to help them come fix what they were doing. Because prior to him going out there, the Japanese were still recovering from World War II. But as far as making cars, they had the reputation of making cute, cheap little cars and they were popular, but everybody looked at them as, yeah, they're cute, but they're cheap and, you know, okay. And that was their, that was their perception. And they were struggling with that because they were, they were also having a hard time making money. They were having a hard time competing in the, in the world marketplace. Well, Demi came over there and he taught them that just going cheap on your materials and your equipment and not investing in training and good materials for making the cars and good technology. He taught them that if you focus on the process and you invest in your people, you invest in the equipment, you invest in good materials, that you'll actually save money because you're not incurring so much scrap and so much downtime and so much inefficiency.

[00:11:10.010] - Agnieszka Wood

Right.

[00:11:11.830] - Brian McAboy

And that's how during the Japanese took over the global automotive space as the perception of, hey, if you want a quality car, you'll buy Japanese.

[00:11:30.280] - Brian McAboy

Yeah. It's a position they assume, and they've been able to maintain it very well. Matter of fact, if you remember Lexus, their big campaign when they launched the Lexus company, Toyota did their byline on their marketing was the endless pursuit of perfection.

[00:12:17.120] - Brian McAboy

So Deming was able to prove to them that if you want to make money and you want to have some security in your business yes. Focus on quality. And his whole thing was paying attention to the process because prior to Deming, quality was under the kind of mind frame of quality control where you have production running and then you have inspectors standing down the line, looking at stuff and kicking off the bad product and oh, this one's okay. Ship it. Quality assurance was Deming's approach, and he totally shifted the mentality from let's keep an eye on the product going down the line and just run to let's pay attention to the process and know that what we're sending down the line is good.

[00:12:58.760] - Agnieszka Wood

Got you.

[00:12:59.950] - Brian McAboy

And so one of his favorite quotes though, and that was the reason for the whole Deming story was one of his famous quotes is if you can't define what you're doing as a process, then you don't know what you're doing.

[00:13:11.630] - Agnieszka Wood

So in fact, just going by that very inspiring story you just said, it is really about sort of preventing issues at the front instead of trying to deal with consequences.

[00:13:25.900] - Brian McAboy

Right, absolutely.

[00:13:27.490] - Agnieszka Wood

So curing the source and not trying to get rid of the sickness on the other side, like just taking a pill because you have a headache.

[00:13:37.180] - Brian McAboy

Right, yeah. But with trading yeah, the whole thing I try to help people understand. In my experience, most traders, they're above average, just the population as a whole. I mean, if you think about it, in order to be in a position to trade, you kind of have to be above average, if you consider where average is. And so traders have already demonstrated that they have what they need. They've already demonstrated that they can earn money, that they can amass money and have money, they can deal with success and the self worth and just the fact that they're there in a position to trade with 20, 5100 thousand dollars, they've demonstrated that they have what it takes.

[00:14:23.410] - Agnieszka Wood

Right.

[00:14:24.260] - Brian McAboy

And so it's like, all right, if personally it's not you, you're not screwed up, well, what's the problem then? And that's why I like telling them. It's like no talking to people, you don't have psychological issues, you have lack of training issues, you're trying to do a challenging job and you've not been given proper training for it. And have you ever heard of the book The Peter Principle? Yes, excellent book. And if you remember from the book the main finding of that, because Lawrence Peter was hired to study American businesses and see why there was so much inefficiency, he said, well, there's a lot of bad management decisions. But the main thing that came out of his book and later became famous as the Peter Principle was in any hierarchy a person will rise to their level of incompetence and then remain there. And I find that very applicable to traders because his whole point in saying that was a person, they'll have certain personal traits and abilities and that's why they keep rising through the ranks. Bob's over here and he's doing a great job, so let's promote him. He's still doing a great job, so let's promote him.

[00:15:33.340] - Brian McAboy

And then they're going to keep promoting him until he hits a level where he doesn't have the skills to be doing really good anymore and so stop promoting him. And so by definition, yeah, that's his level where of incompetence, where he's not doing so great anymore. But what most traders are in the position of is they've been doing well with their job. Maybe they're an engineer, they're a doctor, whatever, and then they kind of promote themselves into a new position of trading and it requires a skill set that they don't have, but they just kind of jump into it. And so they're struggling from the Peter Principle, it's because, yeah, you've got the skills that you've had before, but none of them are really transferable into trading.

[00:16:15.390] - Agnieszka Wood

Right.

[00:16:17.450] - Brian McAboy

But the thing is, that can last indefinitely because the markets and if they don't seek out the proper training, the markets aren't going to teach them. The markets are just going to rough them up. No, you're making another mistake. No, you're doing it wrong again. But that's all the feedback you get as a trader. Yeah.

[00:16:34.510] - Agnieszka Wood

And eventually you lose confidence in yourself and you start hesitating whether you actually are fit for that.

[00:16:40.990] - Brian McAboy

Right.

[00:16:41.180] - Agnieszka Wood

Because you say, okay, there's nothing wrong with you. But eventually, when you keep failing, people I talk to all the time, they come to me and they have hardly any self confidence left because they think there's something wrong with them.

[00:16:57.530] - Brian McAboy

True. Now, I'm not saying that there aren't psychological issues per se, there aren't psychological issues that they bring as a person. They might have psychological issues to deal with from their trading experience. Traumatic. Yes. The failures. And the other thing, and this is another one that I really try to impress upon people, is I like calling it the kiss of death. And that's where, at the very beginning of a trading career, it's when you place that first trade with real money.

[00:17:29.790] - Agnieszka Wood

Right.

[00:17:31.150] - Brian McAboy

If your sole experience prior to that is, okay, I heard about trading, watched a couple of YouTube videos, and I called up a broker and they opened an account and funded it. And they gave me the SIM account so I can their platform and play for two weeks, maybe jump into their trading room and try to figure out what they're doing watching their traders in the trading room. And then it's like, bam. They'd say, all right, I get it, and they go live. But they only know enough to be dangerous. They know enough how to place trades, but they don't really know what they're doing. And so as soon as they place that first trade, though, now they're in this emotional state. They're in a mentally unprepared state and they kind of know it. There's that anxiety. They're way outside their comfort zones and they start trading with real money. And it's the emotional ride and yeah, it's the euphoria when they hit winners and it's, oh, my God, I suck when I hit losers. But the thing is, they go through weeks, sometimes months, sometimes years of this.

[00:18:29.840] - Agnieszka Wood

I know, tell me about it.

[00:18:32.290] - Brian McAboy

What they're doing, though, is and they don't realize it, is they're training themselves during this time. It's what they're practicing and ingraining into their head. Their brains getting absolutely. Their emotional system is getting wired. Their emotions are getting wired in their nervous system. It's all this wiring and programming that's going on. And their perspectives are getting established, their emotional responses are getting established, their thought processes are getting established. And it's all this horrible normal that gets drilled into them. Psychological aspect. Yeah. That needs to be addressed. But it does have psychological aspects. But at the core of it is you're suffering from bad training.

[00:19:18.610] - Agnieszka Wood

So at what point? Because if you have a system, right? So let's say someone comes to you and they work with you and they work out their system, now they know exactly what they need to do, what happens then? Do they easily follow the system? Because I wonder if having the system in itself already guaranteed that people will follow it, what's your take on it?

[00:19:45.370] - Brian McAboy

Of course not.

[00:19:46.490] - Agnieszka Wood

So what is the reason why people don't follow or I mean, they want to follow, but they don't follow the process. What do you think?

[00:19:53.870] - Brian McAboy

Several reasons. First of all, the strategy or the system itself is not the key. It's not. And I can prove it in four words. No. The best strategy on the planet, best one ever invented. If you can follow this strategy, you will make money. Guaranteed, 100%. You ready? Four words.

[00:20:22.520] - Brian McAboy

Yeah. Buy low, sell high. That's the best strategy on the planet.

[00:20:27.710] - Agnieszka Wood

That was my very first strategy. The first time I saw the chart, I was like, this is what I'm going to do. I will buy low and sell high.

[00:20:37.290] - Brian McAboy

Every strategy, if you boil it down to its essence, is the same thing.

[00:20:40.930] - Agnieszka Wood

Right?

[00:20:41.680] - Brian McAboy

Just like every diet is exercise less or exercise more and eat less.

[00:20:47.390] - Agnieszka Wood

Right.

[00:20:48.180] - Brian McAboy

Every diet, fitness program, weight loss program, whatever, it always boils down to those two things. Move more, eat less, just simplify things. So it's not in the strategy. There are several things to it. The first thing you do need to have a good system. That's important. Just like with discipline. Yes, of course. You have to show up every day and not be just stupid about what you're doing. Just like when you get in your car and drive, you can't just randomly change lanes and go through lights and all that kind of stuff. You do have to have enough discipline to function normally.

[00:21:22.660] - Agnieszka Wood

Right.

[00:21:23.100] - Brian McAboy

But it shouldn't take some ironclad abnormal level of discipline. A normal amount of discipline is really all it should be.

[00:21:31.450] - Agnieszka Wood

But there is something in human nature, and I'm sure when you were working in quality assurance, that when implementing new systems into companies, for example, there is this reluctance to change and fear of change, or where people let's say within a company that you have ever worked or consult for were people very excited and say, hey, we have a new system, let's implement it? Or did you have to push it through? Or was there any resistance for people to actually be able to do that, to implement that new system and follow it? Because that is what I see. That's a huge problem. People have systems and then they don't follow it. They have rules, they don't follow it. There is something that kind of they might follow it. And I remember it from myself. I would stay disciplined for a period of time, and then my rules would go out of the window.

[00:22:27.330] - Brian McAboy

Why does that happen again? If you go back to your early days in trading, what were you practicing? What were you ingraining as your initial habits? I know for me, like my first several months of trading, I was practicing bad trading every day. That is true. Yeah, I'm seeing new stuff. Yeah, I'll try that. Oh, I'll try that. That looks like that makes money. I'll try this indicator. So I was practicing jumpy, emotional, undisciplined, random, scattered trading every day. And that's what I was practicing for months. So yeah. Is that something that's going to probably come back at a later time or maybe just persist, especially if I keep doing it? Sure. Behavioral psychology, you do something for long enough, it's going to be wired into you.

[00:23:18.990] - Agnieszka Wood

That's right.

[00:23:20.530] - Brian McAboy

It's not always easy.

[00:23:22.100] - Agnieszka Wood

So basically everything that has to do with psychology, with changing your habits and building the proper system, should come at the front of trading education. Right. So while you're learning how to trade and let's say the technical analysis and you learn about the market, this should just be logical part of it, right, to set yourself up for success just.

[00:23:46.750] - Brian McAboy

Like any other job.

[00:23:48.010] - Agnieszka Wood

Why is it not like this in trading? Because in my experience, there is really not, at least when I started, now there is much more talk about mindset. And actually, you are the first person that I have came across who is helping traders to set the system and not just sell some $1 million strategy to trade. And a lot of times still, when I talk to people, they go, yeah, mindset. Yeah. Now, everyone knows psychology is an issue. Everyone knows, okay, I do need a system, but somehow they put it away and they think, yeah, maybe one day I'll take care of it. In the meantime, losing money.

[00:24:35.770] - Brian McAboy

Well, and part of that, again, comes from just the traders who we are as a population generally above average, intelligence wise, success wise. We're used to being able to and you've experienced this yourself, where it's like, yeah, I'll give that a try. And you jump into it and you figure it out and you make it a success. And so as traders, that element of personal confidence that, yeah, I can figure it out. I'm struggling, but I'll get there. I know that I will. And so that's part of where that comes from. Now, there's also an element of false confidence that's a huge part of trading, and that isn't helped by all the shysters out there and brokers. Yeah, look how easy it is. The guy selling the strategies. It's like, look, the chart went up, and we entered here, and we got out here. We made all this money, and you can do it, too, right? And everybody's like, oh, wow. Yeah. I mean, the worst at this one. I still can't believe it. I don't know if you heard of Dean Graziosi.

[00:25:40.120] - Agnieszka Wood

Oh, yes.

[00:25:42.110] - Brian McAboy

I get this mailer. He's got a thing going on at a hotel, a live seminar, and he's talking about the 37 habits of successful people. Well, I get there nothing to do with habits. It's a pitch for a trading program. There's this guy comes out in the front of the room, and he's got this charisma about him. And he's talking to the crowd, and he's just getting to know him. And he's kind of telling his story, his personal story. Not nothing to do with trading yet, but he gets everybody all warmed up and then he's like so who likes to make money? And can you click on green? Can you click on red? Do you think you can do that? And it was literally that simple, not even showing a chart, but just, like, a green triangle and a red triangle up on the paper on the screen behind it. And then he's back to just kind of schmoozing everybody, and then he's like, do you think you could do this? At the end of, like, 60 Minutes, there's this huge table rush, and everybody's running to the back of the room to buy his $1,000 trading thing.

[00:26:44.050] - Agnieszka Wood

Oh, wow. That's incredible.

[00:26:46.310] - Brian McAboy

Kidding me? Not only did he not explain trading at all or even what the hell they're talking about, it's just can you click on this? Can you click on that $1,000 running back there to sign up? So I walked around the rest of the afternoon, just handed my car to people saying, go get your money back. Call me. Don't do it. Lose money. Seriously. I'm watching them, and I'm looking and I'm looking around the room, and everybody's got their glossy eyes smile on their face and their mouths. Oh, yeah.

[00:27:16.810] - Agnieszka Wood

This is so sad. I find it really sad because one of the reasons that I'm here and doing what I'm doing and helping people to get out of that mode of, first of all, I need to trade. I need to make this money, but mostly of the mode of losing money, because there is I mean, you work so hard for the money that you then put into your trading account, and you just give it away, just like it would be much better to just to give it to charity, right?

[00:27:55.510] - Brian McAboy

Well, you think that's bad, go talk to somebody. And I know this is going to sound terrible, but it's true in my experience. Anyway, the younger generation, like kids in their 20s, right? They're learning to trade on Reddit and with cash app on their phone, and they're calling and trading. Oh, yeah, I'm in a Robin Hood and all that. And I'm like, oh, my God.

[00:28:20.340] - Agnieszka Wood

Yeah, that's a new generation. And you know what?

[00:28:23.430] - Brian McAboy

They're throwing tons of money into it.

[00:28:25.670] - Agnieszka Wood

Yeah.

[00:28:26.290] - Brian McAboy

This one guy, he's lost over 20 grand. He's a young guy, he's already lost over 20 grand, and he's still putting money every week. And I'm like, Dude, stop.

[00:28:36.060] - Agnieszka Wood

Well, I think at some point I'm thinking there is probably also they have different mentality, and maybe their mentality, in a way, they're not worrying that much about money, which can be blessing and a curse, because a lot of times when you do worry about money and you trade, it sends you basically no way, right? Because now you're trading out of fear.

[00:28:59.070] - Brian McAboy

Yeah, that doesn't work.

[00:29:00.300] - Agnieszka Wood

But if you don't care about money, especially if it's not your money, if you get it, I don't know, maybe from your parents to find your account just to play. Because I don't know, I'm not sure where young people have that amount of money. Unless they made it in bitcoin. Because there's a lot of Bitcoin millionaires, right? But regardless how much money they have, there's no reason to throw it away for nothing, right, unless they learn from the mistakes. Expensive lessons.

[00:29:35.210] - Brian McAboy

Yeah, true.

[00:29:36.350] - Agnieszka Wood

How did you even start trading? Because you came from the quality assurance. Did you think, like, hey, I can use this in trading, or were you always into stock market?

[00:30:05.070] - Brian McAboy

But as far as trading, back in the days when the Internet was like brand new, mid 90s, just taking off, you see the billboards say www and that's all. And it's like back in the days when you still place trades by picking up the phone and calling your broker to place a trade.

[00:30:22.410] - Agnieszka Wood

Right.

[00:30:22.900] - Brian McAboy

When I got started and anyway, there was this guy who had a direct mail service, Ken Roberts. You get this sales letter and you read through it, and it's a story about how he ran across these guys, telling him about the best business in the world. You get to the end of the end of it, and he's selling a book called The Best Business in the World, and it's about futures trading. It's a great direct ad, direct mail campaign. It's a huge success. And he got tons of people into trading, me included, and that's where I got my start and the interest in it all. So as far as a business to pursue, it's like, yeah, sure, it. Sounds great. Get out of the corporate job. So that appeal and that whole path to being able to leave the corporate world, have control over your time, have some freedom, money, all that kind of stuff. Sure it's got a big appeal, but that's where I got started. And it was funny. It wasn't until 99 when I first actually started actively trading, I just dabbled a little here and there. But yeah, that's how I got started, was actually working with a broker over the phone and placing trades that way and eventually moving online and all that.

[00:31:28.780] - Agnieszka Wood

That's just totally different world. I've seen it only in a movie with Leonardo DiCaprio.

[00:31:36.580] - Brian McAboy

Oh, the Wolf of Wall Street.

[00:31:38.010] - Agnieszka Wood

The Wolf of Wall Street.

[00:31:50.640] - Brian McAboy

No, actually no. I even got Jordan Belfort's book, The Way of the Wolf. Yeah, his whole thing was he was a great salesman.

[00:32:01.360] - Agnieszka Wood

Yeah, definitely.

[00:32:03.080] - Brian McAboy

He was a great trader. He was a great salesman.

[00:32:05.180] - Agnieszka Wood

So how did you started to work with traders from trading to actually helping traders?

[00:32:12.210] - Brian McAboy

Well, I left the corporate world in 2005, just got a new boss that I just couldn't work with and resigned and was actually going to start a mortgage company. I was in the process of starting it. And I had run an ad for Originators, and this one gal who applied, I'm interviewing her for the loan originator job and she's telling me about how she had just gotten her certification as a life coach.

[00:32:35.210] - Agnieszka Wood

All right.

[00:32:35.840] - Brian McAboy

With specialization in emotional intelligence. And I'm like, well that's cool. I've been through that training where I work emotional intelligence training for managers in the workplace. And so we're talking about emotional intelligence and stuff, and I'm asking her about the training. It's like, heck, I didn't know they had schools for this certifications and everything. And she's like, yeah, it's actually a formal school and you can go there and get different certifications and specializations. I'm like, wow, so how do they teach you to get clients as far as your business, your practice now, right? And are you going for corporate contracts? And she's like, yeah. And I'm like, oh, that sucks. Corporations love abusing vendors. And it's like, no, I said, you really need to be over here talking to traders because you got a whole pile of people that their biggest problem is keeping handling their emotions to keep from making bad decisions, taking a financial beat, right? And so she's like, okay, well, and that sounds a whole lot better than beating my head on the corporate door. And so we talked about starting a company together where I would help her customize her coaching for traders, right?

[00:33:42.630] - Brian McAboy

And also do the marketing, introduce her to the trading world. And so we filled out the articles of organization, formed the corporation, got the bank accounts open, and we're ready to go live and she backed out day one and just got cold feet. And I'm like, You've got to be kidding me. Fine, I'll do it myself because I've been through the emotional intelligence training. I know what it's like to be a trader.

[00:34:36.950] - Brian McAboy

And I'm thrilled that it happened because at the same time the mortgage industry was taking a turn and it's like cool. Great. And love trading, love working with traders. It's been an adventuresome ride, of course. Definitely lessons learned along the way, some ups and downs. But I've had the opportunity to meet some really excellent, excellent people when I was first starting out. Ran across a few guys who at the time were pretty prominent and well established in the trading space and they were extremely helpful to me. Me being a nobody and being brand new to it all. Shout out to Mark McCray and Norman Hallett, a couple of great guys who were again, very gracious is the best word I can find for it because they had no reason to be helping me out aside from just the fact that they were good guys and it was excellent.

[00:35:30.260] - Agnieszka Wood

That is so wonderful. And that's exactly also my experience that I have entered the trading market as a coach three years ago and I have had met so many angels, I call them my angels on my way, that it's just incredible how helpful people are and without any expectations, without asking anything back for it. And it's just the will to help within this community when you meet the genuine people, you know what I mean, because there's also a lot of people that are trying to sell you something, but you can see them from far coming up. But in general, the community is absolutely heartwarming and I love to be in the circle because the trading world is pretty harsh. Right. It's like when you are a trader, you are there on your own and it plays on your emotions and you have to stand really solid in your shoes. So all the support you can get is really important. So where the traders can find you, if you say okay, if someone says okay, I have a strategy, but I know I have to focus on my process and I'm getting my mindset side now.

[00:36:48.120] - Agnieszka Wood

All good. But I still feel like there is still something that I need to improve from the process point of view where they can find you.

[00:36:58.500] - Brian McAboy

Well, created the site Inside Out Trading a long time ago and yeah, that's where you can find me. And as far as what the traders, I mean, really to me, it's fairly straightforward and really it's this simple. Basically, if you want to be a successful trader, there's three things that you need. You do have to have a good system to start with. Not just a good strategy, but a good system. You got to have skills and know how and knowledge so that's your competencies. And then you really need outside perspective because what I find for most traders is you're your own limitation. They're not knowing. You can't see what you can't see and you don't know what you don't know. And again, the markets are not going to tell you. They'll just take your money and keep telling you that you're screwing something up, but they're not going to tell you what.

[00:37:48.600] - Agnieszka Wood

Right.

[00:37:49.080] - Brian McAboy

And so until you get that outside perspective, it can take years to figure it out. It's just this is not an occupation that lends itself to being figured out. It's not.

[00:37:58.760] - Agnieszka Wood

And when you say outside perspective, what do you mean exactly with that?

[00:38:03.050] - Brian McAboy

Hiring a coach, somebody that you can talk to and get the verbal exchange and the feedback and ask questions and they can ask you questions to find out where you're at and find out what you're missing and maybe where you've been seeing, maybe where you've gotten some bad information along the way and help you correct that. Because again, if you're not getting that outside perspective, you can't see it and you're not going to be able to do anything about it if you don't even know it's there. And maybe you do recognize it, but you don't know how to fix it, right?

[00:38:34.050] - Agnieszka Wood

And that is so in line actually also with if you talk about mindset, because I always say mindset is you set your mind on something and then you are just in a tunnel vision. So you need to get outside perspective and look at other ways of doing things. And you have to look at yourself from outside so you actually can see what mistakes you're doing and the behaviors and everything. So it's all about getting that other perspective and being willing to look at yourself in the first place. Right.

[00:39:09.440] - Brian McAboy

Well, the other thing with the outside help though, again, there are skills that this job takes, right? It's not just am I able to place trades, there's a whole list of other skills that you need to be really fully self sufficient and truly independent as a trader. And again, these things, they're not easy to just figure out. You can if you don't mind investing years to figure it out, it's a whole lot more sensible to say I want to get some help from somebody who's been there and figured it out already and I'm glad to pay them because they're going to save me years and tons of time and money along the way. It's just like people go to college. I mean, I went to college and the whole point is you say all right. I'm going to invest four, six or eight years of my life and pay a ton of money for it because I know that when I come out the other side, I'm going to be in so much better position to have the lifestyle that I want.

[00:40:14.140] - Agnieszka Wood

Right. And a lot of people cut themselves short with trading, right. They say, okay, I want to make, I don't know, $10,000 in a month, but I don't want any help. I don't know how am I going to achieve this, but I also don't want to invest in myself to learn how to achieve that. So you're setting yourself up for failure in that case, right?

[00:40:41.690] - Brian McAboy

Yeah. And part of its perspective on oneself, self image and beliefs. Totally, yeah. Am I worth in investing in?

[00:40:50.950] - Agnieszka Wood

Yeah. The self worth is a huge issue for a lot of people a lot of times. Also, market will contribute even extra to that self worth. And the fact that people are used to judging their self value by what they have and what they possess, that is an extra trigger that market gives you because when you lose money, it takes away from your self worth. So this whole mix of things is just taking away a lot from your confidence and it's just slowing you down incredibly well. Thank you so much, Brian. This was such an inspiring conversation. And thank you so much for sharing your views. And I'm sure that this have created so much clarity to the audience and to people who are trading and still wondering what is the process? I have a strategy or I trade bullish flags. Is that my process?

So that brings us to the end of this episode. Thank you so much, Bran, for joining us and for this candid conversation today. It was a true pleasure to have you here.

[00:42:08.270] - Brian McAboy

Likewise. Yeah, thanks for having me. I very much enjoyed it. I love chatting with you. It's always fun.

[00:42:14.410] - Agnieszka Wood

Wonderful. I hope that it will help traders who are listening today to get some perspective and ideas to go back and review the way they trade, find the bottlenecks and start taking measures to make their system more efficient and more effective.

Thank you so much for listening to the Confidence in Trading podcast. If you enjoy my show, please rate and review it on Apple podcasts and be sure to subscribe so you can come back for real life conversation in the next episode. Until then, this is Agnieszka Wood from Ahead Coach. And don't forget, you too can realize your dream without losing yourself and your confidence in the process.

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✉ Contact me: launchyourlife@aheadcoach.com

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