Zach Rubin is back on the podcast to share more details about how his time as a trader led him to success, but not at all in the way he imagined it would. Instead of learning how to pull cash out of thin air—as Zach describes his fantasy of the trading world—with successful thousand-dollar-a-day trades, he actually lost money. His losses led him to seek coaching from experienced traders, including Agnieszka. It was the powerful mind-shift methods that Agnieszka uses that led to Zach’s comeback career.
Zach credits his learning experience as a trader to his success as a business owner. Without learning to completely shift and reframe his mindset, he would never have developed the confidence to take the leap of faith to build the thriving business he has now. Zach’s biggest advice to new traders is to treat the profession as an athlete. Train consistently and hire a renowned coach like Agnieszka Wood. Zach hopes that listeners interested in trading learn from their mistakes and hire a coach right away rather than waiting until they fail to ask for help. And for those who decide trading is not their life’s passion, hopefully, his story of success provides inspiration.
About Zach Rubin
Zach Rubin is a successful entrepreneur, Architectural Designer, and Owner of Foundry House in Greater Atlanta. Zach discovered his passion for architecture while at Penn State University, where he excelled in drafting and architectural design. He continued his education at the Georgia Institute of Technology, graduating with a Masters from the College of Architecture.
Zach’s interest in trading was sparked during the COVID-19 wave and he started trading the Nasdaq and S&P Futures. After many ups and downs on his trading journey and making an incredible leap in his personal growth, he was able to achieve his long awaited dream.
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Contact Agnieszka Wood | Ahead Coach:
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- LinkedIn: Agnieszka Wood
Contact Zach Rubin | Foundry House Design:
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Transcript
Agnieszka 0:00
So today, my guest is Zach Rubin who you might remember from the very first episode of the Confidence in Trading podcast. Zach is a business owner, a husband and a father of two and a few weeks ago he shared with us the beginnings and the juicy details of his trading journey.
After many ups and downs and making an incredible leap in his personal growth, he was able to achieve his long awaited dream. And today he came back to tell us the rest of his story. And I can tell you that this is going to be good! So, stay tuned! And if you haven’t listened to the first episode yet, I strongly recommend you to do it, so you get the full picture!
Agnieszka 0:56
Hi, Zach. Welcome back!
Zach 0:57
Hi, Agnieszka, thank you for having me.
Agnieszka 0:59
Last time we talked about how much work and effort you have put into making trading work for you. And how challenging it was especially on the emotional level. So, can you tell us how did your journey develop?
Zach 1:13
I had a boss at one point. And we were driving to a retreat, which was a few hours away. And I just happened to be the one that was in the car with him. It was us two together, which was a bit of a, it was a good moment, right? Because I was able to kind of like, speak to somebody who was my superior in a confined space for a long time. And we got to the conversation of like, well, what do you want to do with kind of the, you know, what's your goals? What are your plans, and I kind of brought up to him, I said, "Well, I really wish I could have been, I really wish I could do architecture, you know, I mean, I just love construction and buildings." And I've worked in the construction fields. In fact, the company I was working for with this person, I was a facilities manager. So I was in charge of properties, and that required me to have a strong understanding of building systems and construction practices and whatnot, because I was constantly working alongside those people to to keep various properties around the country in operation. And I remember the boss, as he was talking, he said, "Well," he's like, "I'm sorry to tell you this Zach. But I think the boats, the boat has sailed for you on that." Because I was, you know, I'm in my late 30s have already gone to grad school. I didn't have a degree in any of this. But I had degrees that were associated with it just not the exact thing, right. So I kind of like, and this is something that I think I've had through my life anyway, when somebody tells me I can't do it, I suddenly get this gumption to say I'm gonna prove that person wrong. Right? It's just my nature.
Agnieszka 2:29
So, so familiar.
Zach 2:31
Yeah, so um, you know, I was kind of listening when I'm like it just like, I mean, it rang in my head for days that like, "I think the boat has sailed for you on this, I think the boat has sailed." I mean, it was like a montage of just like his face saying this to me over and over and over again. And it man did it wear on me. And shortly after that, I kind of made the decision to pursue a different career for a different company in, that would bring me closer to that goal. So I started applying to jobs to be an architectural designer, which you don't necessarily have to have an education in. But you have to have a skill set in. And because I had so much experience working in construction and everything else and had a graduate degree in design, industrial design, which is product design. I felt like, "Hmm, okay, let's take a chance." So I started applying to jobs that were for an architectural designer. And lo and behold, I ended up getting one and I interview really well. So it went really great. And I started working as a architectural designer for a company. And then I got furloughed because of COVID. And that's ultimately what kind of led me into the trading thing. But that experience is what sort of was my first foot into this into this arena. And then it wasn't until after I'd, I was coming off a furlough, I was looking for a new job about to take another architectural design job. And I get a call from an old boss who I'd worked with before in construction. And he's like, "Hey," he's like, "I need somebody to help me out, blah, blah, blah." And I'm like, "Look, I'm about to sign a contract to work for this other company." And he said, "Well," he's like, "the pay is not going to be as much, we're not going to be able to give you any of the benefits that this other company will. But you..." at the time I was trading. And he's, I said, he said, "but I'll let you have as much time as you want to do your trading just as long as you get the job done." And so I was like "Done, I'll take it," even though it like literally was 25,000, maybe 30,000 less in salary per year it was it was with a company I'd worked for in the past. So to some degree, I felt like I was moving, I was still I was falling backward, right? I wasn't progressing, I was moving backwards. But I took the risk because I wanted to continue trading. And then that position ultimately led me into the new opportunity of the partners there, that company decided that they wanted to create a new company to do interior design and cabinetry. And they said, We want to make you a partner .I was like "I'll take it, I'll do it." This was like the opportunity suddenly comes and this was right in January of last year. So this was right when we were still working together. But it was about the three quarter mark or so of our program together. And so it was like suddenly like oh my god, I have the possibility to be part owner in this new business. So I take it. Then one of the other partners, for the reason why he was a partner was because he had broken out, broken up with a partnership he had with another company that did architectural design. So now I said well, why don't we just do architectural design here in this company, since I have an interest in it and you have the experience for it. Let's just do it. So we started doing architectural design and I started learning how to put plans together and I already had the construction knowledge now it was just a matter of learning the software to do the actual, you know, architectural plans. So we started doing that. And about 10 months, or no not even, eight months into that partnership. Partnership with four people can be a little bit challenging and it definitely causes some friction and when everyone wants to be a leader, you know, it's not always going to work out. So one thing led to another and, and the decision was made that I would take a third of that business, the architectural component of that business and just take it off their hands, I created my own business with it, the amount of confidence that it took me for sure to decide in that moment, like, Okay, I'm going to leave the security of a job, I'm going to, I'm going to release my my shares of this partnership that, for all intents and purposes, was looking like it was going to be very successful. And I'm going to instead just do something that I'm not going to own 100% of, but there is no guarantee that I'm successful at this, and there's no going back. It's not like I can be like, oh, sorry, actually, can I get back into that partnership that ain't gonna happen. So I take the leap of faith, I start my own firm. And because of the network that I developed over the course of time, and the confidence that the newfound confidence that I had, and mindset, money, mindset, all of it, we just hit the ground running. And from... this is August of last year, until today, the company has brought in, I mean, hundreds of thousands in revenues, we've had over 30 customers, we've I've now I'm now designing people's houses that from scratch, like new construction, I mean, just you know, somebody calls me up, hey, we want to add on a piece of land, we want to build a house and I'm like, sure we can help you with that. So and you know, this is all from somebody that never went to architecture school, right and always wanted to and and honestly, like I said, previously, when I was in school, I wanted to go that path but didn't have the confidence to pursue it. So still, life has brought me back to this moment. And I honestly credit, the fact that I spent that time working on my mindset and my confidence because of trading. That ultimately is what resulted in this outcome. And for that, and I'm thankful and grateful for it, even if I never trade again.
Agnieszka 7:24
That's a wonderful story. Thank you so much for sharing it, because it also shows how the universe has a plan, in a way,and kind of brings things onto your path. And all you need to do is just take it. Just take it and do it and you know, don't resist it. Sometimes it might be challenging, sometimes it might require confidence. But eventually if you do follow your your dream, because it was your dream at some point, right? You wanted to, you knew what you wanted to do. And there was not... trading wasn't as strong as that path. Right?
Agnieszka 8:08
I remember when we started working. You were saying, "Yea, this is always what I always wanted to do."
Zach 8:10
Yeah, exactly. Like if I was still trading today, I would possibly be still dreaming about being an architect and doing architectural design. Right. I mean, there's no doubt. So it's a, it is a remarkable thing of how it kind of worked out. And I don't think it was by accident. I think that this this ultimately happened because of the positions I put myself in because of the work that we did. And it you know, it's hindsight, they say "Hindsight is 20/20" but I think that you can look back on things and real and also make the realization that I would not be the person today capable of achieving that success. And literally getting to the place I always want it to be if it weren't for the steps that I took previously. And I think anyone is... I think this is possible for anybody, regardless of what, whether it's trading you want or something else, I think the important thing is, is to learn and know yourself. That's probably the number one thing even before you trade, try to spend time figuring out who you are, what you like, what drives you, what are your motivating factors, and not be afraid to pursue the things that maybe the boat has sailed on, or that you perceive the boat has sailed on. Because there's, there's no, that's only what somebody else may say, that's not necessarily the reality for you. You don't have to let it be the reality for you.
Agnieszka 9:27
Yeah, yeah, totally. And that's, that's what I always call a strong "Why". You need to have a strong "Why." Why are you doing things? Why are they important to you. You have a vision. You have a mission in your life, because all those things will contribute to where you put your energy and effort and wherever you put your energy into that will give you the results. So after you went through this whole process, and you got through your emotional journey, how did the trading change for you?
Zach 10:04
So, um…
Agnieszka 10:07
Or I should say maybe how did trading change your life at that moment. What happened?
Zach 10:12
What happened? Yeah, so what I came to realize, I think was that... At first it gave me confidence in who I am. It gave me a better grounding. In that kind of money mindset, the manifesting success type of thing. I worked on that a lot more I started to visualize and understand like, you know what, what's possible for me what's the future gonna hold. But ultimately, it resulted in me taking a major step away from trading. As much as I love the idea of trading, as much as I love the potential of what it has to offer to you. And the freedom that comes along with that, I slowly began to realize, while I took a break, like I should say, I first took a break more from a position of necessity, because if I continued down the path that I was just going to continue either revenge trading, or I was going to continue to, you know, just build this, this monster out of it, right? This thing that I'm constantly trying to overcome and really struggling to, to do so. And so I needed to take a break from it, because it just even through all the work that I've done, it just wasn't clicking as much as I wanted it to. So I take a take a step back. And through that break is really, I think, where I came to some new conclusions, which was that the work that I done working on my mindset, and all of that started to change my life outside of trading far more than it actually changed my life in trading. And that resulted in opportunity, new opportunities coming up in life and in business. And the way that I approached those opportunities changed because of this newfound sense of calm and this newfound sense of confidence, such that I was able to not only, I think, attract those opportunities, but I was able to capitalize on those capital opportunities. And now that I'm, I've not been trading now for, what, almost a year? Has it been that long? When did we Yeah,
Agnieszka 12:14
Actually, you finished the program last year, end of January.
Zach 12:18
End of January. Wow. So it's been over a year. Yeah, exactly. So, I ended up, so I put trading on pause, which was supposed to be a temporary pause and it turned into a more permanent pause. Partially because the rest of life started to improve, other than I had new, a new job opportunities, partnership opportunities with businesses that I was involved in, and then those partnership opportunities ultimately turned into me starting my own business, and ultimately creating the exact life I wanted. It just didn't involve trading. So who knew, right? And, you know, surprise, I ended up not becoming a trader. Now, I still carry the dream inside of me, if I'm being honest with you, I still think about trading periodically. I actually, at some point in the last year, I invested in a different trading platform that was making use of different type of chart style was a few $100. You know, I gave it a shot because I was like, kind of trying to keep the dream alive. The reality is, though, is that because of all these other successes outside of trading, my life has gotten so busy and so full that trading is become something that is almost unrealistic at this point. It's funny, because I'm like, my Work calendar, I still block out an hour and a half every morning from nine from nine o'clock till 10:30 for trading, it still says trading and every day I see a pop up on my calendar, like traded reading time. But I don't I don't trade because I have so much going on with all of these other businesses that I'm working on. And the success that I'm seeing in these areas is so rewarding to me, possibly more rewarding the trading ever would have been even though trading might have certainly how to become truly successful at it would have no doubt awarded me far more income. I mean, I'm still doing better than I ever have. But I mean compared to trading, which has massive upside potential. It's it's not even a comparison. But the value that I'm getting from the businesses that I own, and the the confidence that I'm building in myself, because I'm not only owning my own company and doing incredible work for the customers that I have and the product that we create. It's fulfilled me in ways that I think trading, I don't know the trading ever would have because at the end of the day, yes, being good trader will give you a lot of confidence and a lot of gratification, especially when you get to spend that money and drive around in your Lambo. But it's like it's the difference between being really good at something and being proud of that versus creating something that's much bigger than yourself that maybe has the potential to live beyond you. And I think that's where I'm at right now in life is I got this business, we do architectural design for customers, and it's related to the industry that I was had started in years ago, but have kind of worked my way into this new place and have a business now that is you know, doing doing incredible and is awarded me not only the freedom that I wanted, I mean to some extent I mean, like I spend an hour and a half working a day and then spend the rest of the day spending my money. It's more so that I have the freedom that I don't have a boss. I don't have a... if I want to take a vacation, I can take as much time as I want to as long as the work is still getting done. So, I, I've been able to capture a lot of these things that I think I always wanted. And I think that this experience of trading, struggling to learn how to trade working through my mindset and my confidence, and then coming out the other side, only to realize that maybe trading isn't exactly what I want to do with my life has still created the life that I ultimately wanted. And it's a remarkable thing.
Agnieszka 15:45
Congratulations, I'm really so happy to hear that. And you know, I exactly remember the moment when it all started to kind of show itself in your life, all these opportunities, and the moment where you came and you said, this is incredible. And, you know, I got this offer to become a partner, and then things just started to roll from there, and you're so much more grounded and confident to actually go for it. And you know, not question it, but just take what the universe was giving you.
Zach 16:21
When you you know, the, a lot of the work that we did together ultimately helped me to learn how to manifest the future I wanted the life I wanted. And trading is sort of a means to an end to some degree, it's a, it's a, something that you do to be able to make a ton of money so that then you can enjoy life, right? It's one of the it's like a step on the path to your actual goal, which is to gain freedom or financial wealth, or private jet or whatever. But most people who I see who end up trading, ultimately don't do it for the rest of their lives. They do it for a part of their life, maybe they build a bunch of capital, but they almost always either invest that money wisely, create passive streams of income, buy businesses that they operate, and it ultimately becomes a means to an end. It's rare that you find somebody who gets into trading and it becomes their lifestyle, their life and their business. And that's all they do. You know, there are definitely people like that and all the power to them, if you can, you know, I always equated trading to like, it's as if there's a stream of money that's floating above your head in this cloud. And if you're good enough at it, you can just reach up and just grab stacks of cash, just like just grabbing stacks of cash. It's unbelievable. That was the thing that ultimately attracted me to it. I used to say that all the time, like it's magic. It's like money magic, right? And that's great. But the fulfillment end of it, you know, yeah, it's you and the computer. And I think for me now, like I have this business, I've got, now, ambitions that are like, wow, what if I create this business and open up different cities, and I'm able to start building a much bigger brand. I mean, I just the other day bought the web address for my business for $2,000. I never thought I would buy a website, even my wife is like you spent how much on what? On like, something you can't even hold. And I'm like, Yeah, I know, it sounds crazy. But, and like, the me a year and a half ago, if you said like Zach, a year and a half from now you're gonna spend two grand on a URL, I'd be like, there's no way, like, who makes a decision like that? And now I'm doing it with like, not only like, this is an obvious no brainer, because this is how I, I'm going to, you know, launch myself into this new direction with this business to turn it more into a brand and more into a, into a larger company that that maybe one day I can sell for, you know, 10 or $20 million, maybe, I mean, that's sort of, that's where my head's at now. Whereas before, it was just, you got to learn how to trade so you can make three grand a day or whatever. And now it's like, you know, these new horizons that have I've never thought of before, and it's a different experience, but I'm so grateful for the fact that I got involved in trading, not only to learn about markets and learn about trading is just a as a skill set. And as a technical element of it, it's been, it's been educational in so many other ways. But also, more so really, that mindset, self control, discipline, all of that is connected, you know, and it's affected me not only in the sense of, of my career and business and all that but it's affected me in my health, I've changed the food I eat, I have more confidence in and more confidence in my level of discipline that I can attain for myself. And you know, I mean, I'm, I've lost weight, I've increased my salary I've been, I'm building a machine now like a business that has the potential to grow and expand for the future. My family life is better, you know, I'm able to work from home all the time now. So I get to see my kids multiple times a day, but sometimes it's too much because they're, they're five and two. So, you know, once I see them, I can't like pry them off me so I can get back to work. But I get to be with them a lot. And I don't have to go into an office anymore. And this is all tremendous. You know, this is I have the life I want because of trading, but ironically, it did not include trading. So.
Agnieszka 20:07
Yes, that is wonderful. That's pretty amazing that you actually, you can say you achieved that with trading, but not with the money you made from trading.
Zach 20:20
So in a way it still was a means to an end. It just wasn't the end I had in mind. So I think it's important, I think, as people listening to this, is, first, do your best to try to be a good trader, right? Do do take all those steps because I wouldn't have what I have, if I didn't go through all the steps, right? I wouldn't, I wouldn't be where I am, had I given up on trading, I'd probably be still working a nine to five in some office somewhere with a boss who I couldn't stand and the freedom I didn't have, right. So I'm glad that I went through that process. And, you know, I invested a lot into it, not only the money that I ultimately lost in the market, but the money I spent on great coaches and, and books and things to read. And that was all part of the part of the plan in a way, you know, and it ultimately got me to where I am now. So I recommend that you still focus on that. But most of all, focus on your mindset. Because even if trading doesn't work out, your mindset is something that changes, the rest changes you for the rest of your life. And having that experience will is fundamental, it will fundamentally change who you are and how you interact and the people you surround yourself with and, and that ultimately relates to the kind of success that you'll have, whether it's in trading or not. So pursue it. Regardless, just be careful. Don't put all your eggs in one basket, be willing. And I think also you mentioned this, be willing to see the trading might not be for you. But still, don't be depressed about it still see the value. And this took me some time to kind of like get here to still see the value of that experience. Because it's very easy to fall into that despair, once you make that final decision. Like, okay, I'm putting down the, I'm putting it down, I'm not trading anymore, you will feel that overwhelming wave of I am a complete failure. I've wasted how much money you know, and you start doing the math it becomes depressing. But just know, yeah, it's not the end of the story. You know, you can continue on and the skills and mindset, you know, that you've now developed over the course of this has truthfully changed your capability for success.
Agnieszka 22:20
So in a way it is, it is realizing your dream, not necessarily a dream to trade, which again, not many people have a dream to trade, but they just want to realize their dream. But then somehow it gets all mixed up into “my dream is to make money.” That's where it goes south.
Zach 22:37
There was a moment when... I want to explain what it felt like to finally make it to the to the point of success, because this is I think the part that keeps people's dreams fueled, right in the same way that sometimes some of the content on YouTube regarding trading, sometimes alludes to. There was a moment where you know that like when you're like a the the idea, the image I get in my head is like when you're a kid and you're looking through the glass window of a storefront and you see maybe it's a toy, or, you know, cakes and pastries or something that you just can't you want to want to have. Yeah, but maybe you're you're you don't have the money, you don't have, you know, the means whatever, for whatever reason, you can't access what's on the other side of the glass. And there was a moment when, you know, my wife and I were sitting down at night, and it was after we'd created the business and we started seeing some initial success in the first few months. Like in the first three months, I think we already had, you know, 15 projects or something. And we'd already collected $100,000 or something and just a few months and it was just like wow, like this is incredible. And we were actually paying ourselves like salaries that were greater than ever before and, and doing all that and I remember looking at my wife and I said it just like struck me and it just I just said to her, I said "I'm on the other side of the glass." I said "that's what I feel like I'm on the other side of the glass for the first time right I'm there, I'm there. I've got it in my hands like the freedom that I always wanted. The ownership of my own means of resources is now there. I have it all, right? I've gotten there, I've got I've made it to the other side of the glass." And I mean, I started crying for us, because I was just like, oh my god, like, I've been wanting this for so long for so many years. And, and here I am, you know, and that feeling, it just washes over you and you just feel like, wow, there it is that, you know, all of those years of struggling all those years of uncertainty, they're finally here. So keep that in your mind.
Agnieszka 24:39
You gave me goosebumps.
Zach 24:42
Yeah, I know, well, it's powerful. Because it's, we all have that I think we all have those things in life that we want to, that we dream about, whether it's trading or not, there's all this dream of what life could be. That's the dream is always seemingly on the other side of the glass. But one day, you do make it there. If you play your cards, right, and you work on yourself in the right ways, and you keep pursuing the opportunities as they come, you'll get there. And when you do, you'll find yourself on the other side of the glass. And the feeling is remarkable. And it doesn't mean that everything becomes easy all at once. In fact, maybe your stresses are greater and you've got more responsibilities. Now I've got mouths to feed, right? I've got employees who are relying on me to continue the business and to grow it so that they can also see success in their lives. And that's a tremendous amount more, you know, stress and things to worry about and concerns. But I'm so grateful for, for the fact that I'm here, able to do what I'm doing and to have to have access to those things that I've created.
Agnieszka 25:43
Tell me. Tell me with all the responsibility that you have now do you have more sleepless nights than when you had when the trading wasn't working out?
Zach 25:52
Great question. So in addition to working on mindset, and other things, I've also worked on my health and my sleeping abilities and stuff, you know, my wife is really has a lot of she has a lot of responsibility on this for me, because she pushes me, it's almost like I have a full time coach as a wife, because she's constantly getting me to focus on on on these other things and constantly pushing me toward getting new coaching. Like I'm currently with a coach right now for fitness and nutrition. Like and, you know, I just, I think part of it too, is because of all the experiences I've had working with you and other coaches, it's made me realize, like, there's nothing better than having a good mentor and a good coach to work with on anything that you might be tackling. And so yeah, so I'm working through that. And so I'm sleeping better, maybe, maybe not so much because I have less stress, I think I actually probably have more stress in my life, different kinds of stress. But I'm sleeping better because I've worked on those things worked on habits and I've also worked on or I should say, having, knowing that I've attained those things that I've wanted to do already gives me some peace, right to know that like, Okay, now I've kinda like I've gotten onto the track I've always wanted to be on now it's just the journey, and enjoy that ride and keep going forward and see where it takes you. The mindset work is everything, you know, it really is because you cannot be successful without adjusting your mind. It's, it's everything, it's the beginning and end of every moment is your, is in your mind. And you know, and your emotions are very heavily connected to that as well. I think that trading was a much more emotional thing for me than my current businesses. I don't have that kind of same emotional roller coaster, though I do have moments and days where I've got a really difficult customer or we've got a deadline that we're about to miss and I feel really bad about it. And you know, or if we get sometimes we get comments back from the permit offices about our plans, and I feel a little bit like shattered because it's like, man, like I'm trying to sell that we've got really good plans that are going to, you know, be very thorough and good. And to still get comments back from a permit office. It's like kind of like, it's like getting a test paper back from a school teacher and it's got a big, like, D-minus on it, you're like, gosh, you know, no, they're supposed to believe that I'm an A+ student, not a D- student. Right. So there's a little bit of that, but it's not the same as the emotional rollercoaster of trading because trading is just these ups and downs. And you know, and the other thing and we didn't really talk about this and and maybe one day in the future, but you know, the emotional side of it that resulted in some serious darkness, right and some serious like self doubt. And that's the part where looking back on it. I think it makes perfect sense that trading is maybe not right for me, like I don't know that I had the right mentality for it or the sensibility for it. But I do, I do have the right mentality and sensibility for what I'm doing right now. Like, like in you know, in spades, right? I mean, I've got the level of trust that I can build with people when I'm first talking about their homes and about the ideas that I have about their struck the structure or whatever. I know that a lot of why I'm being successful here is not just because of the network I've created, but also because of the, of my sales ability, right? My ability to kind of like meet people where they're at and speak to them about their home and not only give them ideas that they never would have thought of but also give them a confidence that Oh, this guy knows what He's talking about and he's, I'm gonna be safe with him. You know, as I joked one time with one of the contractors I work with, I'm like, I must have a trustworthy face because people people keep wanting to buy from me. But it's it's true, it goes a long way to be able to do that. And I wouldn't have that, that I wouldn't have that opportunity to use those sides of myself. If I was just sitting behind a trading computer all day.
Agnieszka 29:37
The face wouldn't help there, no matter how friendly.
Zach 29:40
No, yeah, so I think it's really, I'm really grateful for where I'm at now. And even if, even though I still, I mean, even still, there's still this little shred of hope that maybe one day I'll get back.
Agnieszka 29:55
So, what is that little hope? Like? Hope for what? That you will find time or that you will make it work, what is it? Because you know, that part when you stop trading and you say, "Oh, I invested it." So, because that's what a lot of people say, "I invested so much money, I cannot stop now." But if you think about it like, you throw it away-that's one thing. But if you think "I have learned all these things, so I didn't really waste it. Right now I'm just taking the lessons with me." So, what is that hope?
Zach 30:24
Yeah. So, well, first off, you were talking about the gamblers dilemma, right, which is like you've put so much you've invested so much money in something so much time and energy and effort that you feel like you can't, you cannot give it up now because like you've just, to throw it all away right? So, that's where that initial wave of like, dissatisfaction and disappointment and anger really comes into play. But it's a, I think, for me, it's also like, there's an element of I don't like to leave a stone unturned. Like I this is something I went out and tried to do, and I still want to be successful at it, you know, there's a little bit of that it's almost like a self-contest. But it's also because there is a, there is a glamour to that lifestyle that, like, even owning my own business and being successful as I am, I just am not... you don't get the same kind of level of like, "Oh, I have the ability to magically pull money out of the air, like whenever I want it." I mean, you know, my former coach, who I worked with prior to you, he still does it nice. Occasionally we'll see a clip of him doing something online on YouTube. And I'll just see, like, you know, he's like, you know, even sometimes I just see the title on his on the thumbnail, and it's like, $6,300 in the first 18 minutes. And it's just like, that's crazy, you know, that's so much money. And like, so that still works on me a little bit. But you know, at some level, that's a little like the Pavlovian dog, right? It's like a little bit of the bell ringing in me, like my mouth starting to drool, right? Like, that's really what's happening there is that I'm seeing this, somebody who's like, able to has that ability to just manifest this money right out of thin air. And it's magical. And there's part of me that still like is attracted to that. But I think a lot of it is that kind of psychological thing where you're just like, "Man, wouldn't it be amazing if I could just, you know, drill up some money like that, and go buy a brand new car." I mean, you know, the business I have now as much as I love it, and it's great. It's definitely a longer trajectory. I mean, I'm making a good living and but it's, it's not like we're not talking $6,000 a day, you know, that's, that's a different thing. And maybe one day, if I build this machine to some crazy thing, I've got multiple cities I'm doing maybe I've captured the whole Southeast, and doing plans in multiple states, I've got partners in various cities, maybe then I sell it for millions of dollars, right? I kind of mentioned that before. Great, that would be that would be awesome. If I can do that, then awesome. And that's sort of where my focus is now on it. But um, you know, there's still something magical about just being able to reach up and grab money out of thin air, right, like right through the computer screen. You know?
Agnieszka 32:56
I sometimes wish that there was no videos like that. Yeah, you know that because it really creates such a wrong picture of what trading is, and brings a lot of people into trouble. And I always see, you know, coaching people as urgency because they have those dreams that they want to achieve, and then take their money... and they take their money and they put it into an account and then they lose it. And then now they're further from the dream that there were even before. And that's where I feel so much urgency of, you know, helping them.
Zach 33:34
You know, when, when I remember, I was sitting in the car, and I sent you a voice message because I traded that day. And it was after our work together. And I had... it was like, I was doing pretty good for a couple weeks or something or maybe a week and a half, and then I had one real bad day where I just blew up my account. I was it was all simulated, but it was still I think I blew up my trading, you know, the gauntlet thing, right? And I send you a voice message and I was like, you know, man, like I don't know, this is so frustrating, whatever. And you, your response to me was, I don't remember exactly what you said. But it was something like take a break. It's okay, you know, and you gave me permission in a lot of ways to like, let it go for a little bit, I didn't realize at that moment that I was really letting it go for a much longer period of time. And, you know, like I said, Since then I've gotten back and I did a little bit more sim-trading, I had a new platform I was trying to get working and stuff. But, you know, as I guess, got busier and busier with the business, it became less and less of a reality to keep focusing on it, you know, and at some point, I just the stuff for the business became so big and important for me to focus on that I just really don't have time to trade is where I'm at now, but you know, that you gave me not only confidence through the trading course, but you also gave me confidence to to let go of it too, which was, maybe the more important part, you know, and so to what you're speaking to, that, you know, about helping people trade and stuff, part of what you're, you're doing, as well as helping people to realize that it may not be for you. But that doesn't mean it's the end of the world, you know, that doesn't mean that it's that all is lost, that you're you have the ability to take these skills and whatnot and transition it into something else. And that's possibly more important than just teaching somebody to become a successful trader. Because the reality is, I mean, being a successful trader is almost akin to being a professional athlete like that, you know, 99% of people fail at being a professional athlete. And most because they're not even capable of it, at least with sports, you kind of recognize if you're out of shape, or, you know, if you're only five foot three, and you wanna play basketball, it ain't gonna happen. But, you know, if you're a, you know, with trading, it's a little bit harder to see that because you it seemingly, anybody can do it. But the reality is, there's I think a very narrow spectrum of human beings that, where trading comes naturally and an even when the that's a very narrow spectrum, and maybe a slightly wider spectrum of people that if they do the right work, they can become good at it, you know?
Agnieszka 35:59
That's a great metaphor by comparison, by the way, because when you want to become a professional athlete, you will definitely get a coach, right? People get into trading, and they think they can do it on their own. Or maybe they will read a few books and watch some YouTube videos, and then they become a professional trader. Isn't that interesting?
Zach 36:18
Yeah, I know. And in fact, look at thinking back on it. I am shocked at how like silly it is to even believe and that I fell for that. Right. I mean, it's like, if there's anything I failed, that it was not seeing the forest for the trees in that way. But I'm still grateful for the experience. And, you know, sometimes you have to learn those lessons the hard way, but I don't, again, I don't consider any of my time trading as wastefulness. Like, yes, it was a lot of money. I mean, there was a lot of money lost 10 plus maybe 15 plus thousand dollars. And that's that was a lot for me at the time, especially. But it's, it was well worth the education, it was well worth the mindset shifts, and I wouldn't be where I am today, if it weren't for that. So it's, you know, it's all it's all good.
Agnieszka 36:57
Thank you so much Zach. I hope that showing that there can be many different ways that trading contributes to your life, was beneficial to all of you who are listening and maybe even release some pressure that many of you might feel every day at the trading desk.”
Zach 37:15
Sort of imagine what it must be like from your perspective, because like, obviously, we we chat here and there, but not often, maybe not as often as we should. It's sort of like when you when you see a relative, like a child who's growing up and then like you see them a few years later, like, Oh my God, you've turned into a man, you know, it's sort of the same sort of the same thing. Like, you know, that you've kind of gotten like these snapshots of my success story. And yeah, it's pretty cool. And I'm grateful to have the opportunity to share that with with others just because I you know, I'm proud of it. But also, I know what it felt like to be there on the other side, the other side of the glass, you know, and it makes me, I know that I always was fueled by those kinds of inspirational things, you know, and even though I'm not even where I really want to be eventually…
Agnieszka 38:02
You are an inspiration already.
Zach 38:04
Yes, exactly. And even an inspiration to myself because there's some days that I look at what what what's how this is all formed in just a short amount of time and I'm, I find it remarkable. So, if I find it remarkable, maybe others do too.
Agnieszka 38:16
Well, that brings us to the end of this episode. Thank you so much Zach, for joining us.
Zach 38:22
It’s been a pleasure speaking to you again and spending so much time with you. I cherish it. So, thank you.
Agnieszka 38:28
Thank you so much for listening to the Confidence in Trading Podcast. If you enjoyed my show, please rate and review it on Apple podcasts. And be sure to subscribe, so you can come back for a real conversation in the next episode. Until then, this is Agnieszka Wood from Ahead Coach. And don't forget you too can realize your dream without losing yourself and your confidence in the process.
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