MMA talk with my coach and pro mma fighter brandon who now has a professional record of 3-2 fresh off a win at Lights Out Promotions in Long Beach, CA.
Dreh_Talks
MMA Hour with @brandonahrndt_mma
- All right, we're recording, man, what's cracking? - Nothing much, man, just had a good day of training. Now just chilling at home, relaxing, getting ready for tomorrow as well. - You're training at the den? - Yes, sir. - You wanna tell everybody, well, first of all, you wanna tell everybody who you are, what you're doing, you wanna tell them about the den? - My name is Brandon Orange, I train at the den in Yorba Linda, California. Professional MMA fighter with the record of three and two, all wins coming by first round finishes. So, you know, that's always a plus. - Yes. - But yeah, I train under Ben Jones. And yeah, we've been on it terribly. - You know, I will say, you know, for anybody listening, not only do I work in MMA, but you know, I'm an MMA fan, so this last fight I worked and I got off before you, before you got on. And I was, I got to be K-side. And, you know, it's crazy because, you know, you hear, well, at least back, I swear I fought like from 2010 to 2012. And back then, you would, 'cause your opponent was from TJ, right? - Yes. - And so, back in, it's probably still like this, but back in the day, when you heard about dudes from TJ, you knew like there were guys that were like coming from the gauntlet, like, like I remember back then, they're like, oh, no, hell no, you ain't gonna go fight that guy in TJ, no way, bro, you know? And so, when I heard, I was like, okay, so this might be interesting, all right? We'll see what's up, you know? And right away, I could just see like, I could just see, I could just see a huge difference in the two of you, and then that knockdown was huge. And I was like, oh, there it is, there it is, man. Oh, dude, I was so stoked for you, that's dope. And then for anybody listening. So, Brandon, he mentioned he trains at the den. Great group of guys, when I can get out there, I do go train there for striking and Jiu-Jitsu now. And he's basically my coach, one of my coaches. So, him and Ben, and what's the other guy's name, Sergio? - Yeah, Sergio, great. - Yeah, yeah, I just, I just worry with him like a week ago. So, you know, those three are my coaches. So, it was really cool to get to see you, you know, get that WA, man. - Yeah, nope. It was actually, you were the, one of the first people I saw when I walked out of that gate. - Yeah, man, man. - So, cool to see you, cool to see you, get a little dap up from you. So, yeah, it was a good time. It was definitely, I was definitely expecting a bit of a longer fight. I wasn't expecting him to go out that quickly. You know, 'cause from what I know, you know, dudes, you know, from Mexico period are just tough motherfuckers, you know. But hey, that right hand connected and it was a wrap from there, you know? I wasn't letting that dude breathe after that. - Yeah, I see, man, I see that. And, you know, as I was watching the referee, I was watching you smother him. And I was like, okay. I was like, he's kind of covering up. I was like, but he's not really defending. I was like, he's gonna have to stop this pretty soon. - Oh yeah, and that's the funny thing is too, is like when I was on the ground hitting him, I was elbowing him and I was looking up at the ref, like, okay, like, are you gonna stop this? Like, is it over? Like, come on, he ain't doing anything. - Yeah, so, you know, I think a lot of the referees are in. I mean, I can't talk shit, I work for the commission. So, but I will say it's hard. I think it's hard being a referee right now because, you know, some of these guys, they get so much shit for stopping fights too late. Stop stopping fights too early, you know? Like, it's never good enough. And it's hard, man. Like being, you know, being that fighter in that cage, like, you either need a little bit more or you need a little bit less, you know what I mean? So, but, so wait, your last names aren't? - Yeah, yeah, it is. - Where's that from? - It's actually German. You wouldn't be able to tell by looking at me, but, yeah, my dad's a bit of a white boy, so. - Okay, okay. - Yeah, that comes from him, so. - What's your other house? - It's definitely spelled very weird. You wouldn't be able to pronounce it correctly if you saw it, but it's just like, aren't you, you know? - I, it's, it's simple. - Originally, I saw your Instagram. I thought it meant something, but then, but then I think I saw something else. I was like, that's his last name. I was like, yeah, it's interesting. - Yeah, yeah, I know. It's definitely has one vowel in the damn thing. So, so it's an awkward last name, but, you know, I wear it with pride, you know? - Yeah, man, as you should, of course. What's your other house? - I am also Mexican. - Okay, cool, cool. - Yeah. - I don't think I've ever met a mixed German and Mexican. This is probably the first-- - Yeah, I think I've met like one or two before, but it's not a common mixture, for sure. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm sure you get the best of both worlds, but-- - Yeah, definitely. - So, have you ever been to Germany? - No, never, actually. It's actually one of the places that's on my bucket list to go there. - That'd be dope, man. That'd be cool. - Yeah, definitely. - Yeah, cool. - So, you know, I just wanna come on here and talk to you a bit. You know, pick your brain, talk, you know, talk about MMA, you know? - Of course. - It looks like, you know, three and two, you know, to me, especially three wins by stoppages, you know? And then, you know, the two losses, that's just experience, you know, that's just, you know, especially like, you know, at the level where you're at, like that's experience, you know, that's learning, you know? - Yeah. - And so I wanna talk about, you know, how you got there, you know, I guess we could go ahead. - My first pro debut, it was, it left a really bad taste in my mouth. - Good. - I fought this dude, like, it was my first time fighting at 135 pounds. And then I get a call from Coach Ben Jones saying that this dude is not gonna be able to make 135 pounds. - Oh. - And at the time, like, I think I'm like, two, maybe three pounds off weight. And like, I was literally about to go to the gym and cut those last couple pounds out. Like, I was ready to go, actually, I was feeling good. Like, I was ready. And then I get that call like, hey, like, you're gonna fight at 140 pounds. - Okay. - And I was just like, wait, what? Like, and I still, actually the fight was gonna be held, I think at a limit of 145, but I didn't want to weigh in at that because I was scared the commission was gonna be like, oh, well, you weighed in at 145, you're not gonna be able to go in at 135 anymore. So I weighed in at 140, I think this dude weighed in at like 143 or like 144 or some bullshit like that. And I mean, all the dude really did was just like, wrestle me and hold me down and use that weight to his advantage. - Yeah. - So, I mean, that left a very sour taste in my mouth. And then a couple months later, I get the call from Lights Out. And got my first first round finish at 135 pounds. I mean, all my wins are against true 135ers. - Okay. - And I smash those dudes. - Yeah. - You know, like if you get, I feel personally, if you give me a true 135er, you know, it's gonna be a different outcome for most of these guys. - Yeah. - I'm a six foot tall, 135 pounder. That's not very common. - You're six feet tall? - Yeah. - Yeah, six feet tall. - I guess I've never noticed that. - Yeah. - Yeah. - What dude? So in 2011 at 145, I thought a guy who was six two, and I'm like five eight. So I know what that's like. On the, to be on the other end of you. - Yeah, I mean, it's, at the end of the day, like we got that advantage of that reach, you know, the leg reach and, you know, all that stuff, you know, that comes along with it, you know, like we can sit at our range and, you know, be super comfortable. - Yeah. - But, you know, when the whole issue of like making weight comes into it, you know, I've never missed weight once before in my life. And in my amateur career or my professional career, you know. So I feel like, especially now, like with certain things, some dudes like trying pitter patter that weight limit a little bit and like they'll take that 10%, 20% cut of their pay and be like, all right, like, yeah, you can have like some of my money and then I'll just take the dub, you know, like, I'll give a fuck. But, you know, it is what it is, you know, I'll take those on the chin and this experience at the end of the day, you know. But, you know, if I could have those Ls back, you know, I would take them. - Yeah. - But, you know, what can you do? - Yeah. - But, yeah, and that same thing kind of goes for that second loss as well. Like no disrespect to any of the dudes that I've fought, like that have beat me, you know, like they went in there, if they did their thing, they got their win. You know, that's that. But, those two losses are against dudes that didn't make weight. - Yeah. - So, you know, we're professionals at the end of the day, you know, you need to come into that and act like a professional. You sign the contracts, come in at that weight, you know what I mean? - Yeah, yeah, for sure, it's professionalism. - Mm-hmm, but hey, it is what it is. - It is what it is, yeah man, I had one of my own teammates. He made it to the UFC and he was a 135, right? And he had like a four fight contract or five fight contract. And somehow, like I think most of those fights, or maybe all of them except for like Sean O'Malley, he fought Sean O'Malley, but all the other ones. Yeah, he's like one of the one, he's like one of the only people Sean O'Malley who did not steamroll. - Oh, wow. - And my boy was a 135er and like somehow, like three of those fights on his contract, he ended up fighting at 45 and you know. - Yeah, well, like, he lost them, you know? - Yeah, that's not, that's, I mean, doesn't matter if it's like two pounds or fucking like, you know, anything off of that. You know, it's still a weight advantage at the end of the day, you know what I mean? Like it pays a price in that rehydration, you know, like it helps that rehydration so much more, you know, like you are putting on way more weight than what you thought you would if you were to weigh in exactly at 135 or 136, you know? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mentioned a few times on my podcast before, but back when I fought, I fought at 45 and you know, I wasn't the biggest guy, but I wasn't small either and I tried to cut to 35 one time and it was a decent cut, but like that fight, I kind of like, it was too big of a cut for me and so like that fight, like I didn't black out, but I don't remember the fight either. Like it went by so fast, like it was just, like I wasn't even there, I was on autopilot, you know, just so that it should, just yeah. So I don't know how you make 135 at six feet man, but more power to you, bro. - Bro, I honestly don't even know how I do it to be honest. Like it surprised me because after my amateur career was done, I fought my whole amateur career at 145. - I figured, I figured, yeah. - Yeah, and I would always weigh in for my amateur fights at like 142 and then like my coach Ben was like, you know what, like we're gonna put you down at 35 when you turn pro. And then like, we told the commission that I was gonna fight at 35 and they're like, whoa, like we need to see if he can even make that first. Like, and then I had to do a test cut and like the test cut, like I was even nervous, like damn, like, am I gonna be able to do this? Like this is the first time I've ever really cut that much weight, you know? And right when I hit, like I didn't even step in a sauna my first time. All I did was have my diet. I would, the last couple of days, I would wear like obviously when my sauna suit, go for a run, do all that. And then when we went back to the gym, I would get on that treadmill again and keep that sweat going. And then I took all that off, stepped on the scale. And I was at 136 already. And then my coach was like, oh, damn. Like, you don't even need the sauna. Like you're good to go. Like we sent, you know, video to the commission. Like, hey, he's, he's on, like he's on weight. He can make it like no problem without the sauna. He's good. You know, and then, you know, the rest was history. - Still, man. - Yeah, definitely. - You know, how do you, how do you feel? - Okay. So I don't, I don't think it's all states. I know it's a California thing, but this whole rehydration, this whole, I get it. They don't wanna put the fighters in danger of cutting too much weight and getting hurt, man. But like, I think, okay, so with California, you guys can't gain more than a certain amount of weight, right? - Yeah. I wanna say like, we can't cut like, gain more than like 10 to like 15% of what we weighed in at. I mean, that's not like really a problem for me. Like, 'cause every single time I have like done my rehydration weigh in, like I'm always in that bracket, you know? Like I've never had that problem. Like don't get me wrong. Like I'm not trying to overdo myself on the, on the rehydration. But like, I know like if I was like in Vegas or something to where they don't have that, like I would be going in at like 160 or like something like that, you know? Like easy, like I'm, I will go in on fight night, like maybe like 151 at most, you know? But like, you know, I know I could probably put on more. - Right. - You know, that's, that's, but obviously I also don't want to put on too much to where I go in there feeling like sluggish and like heavy. Like I go in there and I feel fast and I feel light and I'm good, you know? - Yeah, yeah. And you definitely, this last one, you definitely look fast. - So yeah. - And we're way faster. - But I mean, when it comes to that whole rehydration thing, I don't really have an issue with it. - Yeah. - But, you know, if it does become, you know, to a point where it is an issue, you know, then, you know, we'll address it. But, you know, it's not a problem so far, so I ain't too worried about it. - Yeah, you know, you don't know what Cleo Rontree is? - Yeah, yeah. - I don't know, I don't know what Sadie was talking about. He was just talking about how there was a state where they were, they were making the fighters pee to check, to check how dehydrated they were during their cuts, during their way. I can't, yeah, he was just talking about an unrogance podcast. So like it was another state, like it wasn't necessarily California, because California, you just can't gain a certain weight, but this other state was actually testing your pee to see how dehydrated you were. I, you know, I guess, you know, yes, dehydration is an issue, but it's also been a part of fighting for so long. - Yeah. - Yeah. - You know, it's been, it's been a part of fighting for so long. You know, back when I first started working for Camo, I don't even remember when I started working for them, but there was one fight at Commerce Casino when it was up, do you remember when it was upstairs? - Yeah, yeah, I do, actually. - So when it was upstairs, there was one day where they made, where they had us give the fighters cups, 'cause we made them, they had a piss, it was like a test run to check like the proteins in their piss to see if, I think if they were like how hydrated or dehydrated it were, but it wasn't, it was just like a test run, you know, like just to see like what, you know, what results we got. - Right. - That's about it, but you know, it doesn't look like they've done anything since, so, you know? - I mean, when it comes to that, you know, like, obviously I never had to experience anything like that. That was probably a little bit more before when I actually started fighting, but I mean, we're, the way that we cut weight, you know, we're taking in, we're water loading, you know, too. So like, at the same time, like I feel like if that was to be a thing, like it would literally just be water, you know, like, I feel like that wouldn't really be like a good, accurate way of testing that, you know? - Yeah, yeah, and that's exactly what they were saying, that there's ways around it. - Yeah. - You know, there's ways around it. So, you know, there's so much that goes on in the sport. You know, it's funny because like, I mean, not that we're not concerned with like drug use or like steroid use at the amateur level, but, you know, right now we don't test for it, right? But the way I see it is, well, hey, if you're an amateur and if you wanna use steroids and you wanna use drugs while you fight, okay, cool. Do it, 'cause once you get to the pro level, like... - Yeah, that shit's... - You're not gonna, and all that fire, all that steam roll, you know, all that, you know, all that momentum you had is gonna crash and you're not gonna know how to fight, you're not gonna know how to fight like, you know, off cycle or on cycle or whatever, you know what I mean? - Yeah. - Like, like you, if you know how to fight, you know how to fight, right? But that recovery, that strength and all that, that extra stuff that comes with like testosterone, right? It's not gonna be there anymore, you know? So like, they might just lose their edge and they might have a horrible career, you know? So like, if that's the big thing that everyone, like when you saw that came into the picture for UFC, like, Al's are overing, bro, like, that dude was on all the juice and the ones he saw came into the picture. - Overing, yeah, overing, yeah. - Overing, yeah. - No, 'cause they have to call the move, like, yeah. - And yeah, that's the dude getting slept back and forth. - Straight up, straight up. - So, I mean, if you're on the juice, then, you know, when you get to the pros and they start testing you, you know, that shit's gonna show real quick of like, how good you really are, you know? - Well, and they're saying that, that's why they don't allow IVs anymore to rehydrate because you can mask, you know, steroid. I mean, I don't know any about any of that stuff, but from what I understand, people are able to mask, like, you know, steroid use and... I mean, from what I understand, people can take, like, apparently there's another way where, like, people can take testosterone gummies and it gives you, like, a quick, like, jump into testosterone. And then by the time you get tested, it's gone, you know? I don't know, something like that. But, you know, if that's a real thing, I doubt you can get those at GNC, so I don't know. - Yeah, yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, you don't really want to be known as, you know, a dirty fighter, you know? - Yeah. - So, you know, that just tarnishes some legacy, I guess, in that sense, like, even though, you know, John Jones is looked at as the goat of doing all, like, of all MMA, people are always gonna have that conversation of, oh, well, he popped dirty, or, you know, he was doing this, or he was doing that, you know? Like, that's never something I want to have connected to my name, you know, at the time, you know? - Man, yeah, you know, I like that guy, man, but every time I turn around, there's a new headline on him. - I don't know if you saw recently, they're charging him with something for threatening, I think a USADA agent or something like that. - Right, right, yeah, I did see that. Yeah, and I saw that, I was just like, bro, like, and like, I love John Jones, man, like, I love that dude. Like, I looked at, like, I have, like, before I ever started fighting, like, I went to UFC gym in La Marada, and that dude was there when he was gonna fight Daniel Cormier for, I think, like, this second or the first time. And, you know, it took a picture with that guy. Like, that dude was, like, freaking God to me. And then all of a sudden, all of these headlines, and I'm just like, ah, like, like, bro, like, it sucks, but, like, you don't get me wrong, you're still the go, but, like, how can I, like, you know, look up to a guy like that, like, if he's connected to all of this bad shit, you know? - Yeah, I mean, do I still look up to the guy? Yeah, but, you know, there's, you know, it's more of an example of what not to do, but, you know, also, you know, some things that you can learn from the man, you know? - Yeah, yeah, I met him in 2010, actually, when he was getting ready to fight Brandon Vera, this is, oh, like, oh, shit, yeah, bro. - Yeah, man, he was a kid back then, but he was a humble kid back then, too, man, you know? That was before, you know, that was before everything, you know? - Yeah, yeah, that was, I mean, for all we know, the dude could have been on the shit back then, too. - Maybe, maybe, you know, I mean, you know? - But I mean, if you look at it, if you look at it, the dude's never lost. - Yeah. - So, you know, who are we to, you know, to say anything about that guy? - Yeah, oh, yeah, man. Hey, that's, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's so good, man. I mean, hopefully we get to see him fight. - I mean, he could be fighting Steepay. - Yeah, that's what they're saying. So, the same Steepay and then whoever wins that is gonna fight Aspenal, but if I feel like, I feel like Steepay may be too young for Aspenal, I mean, too old for Aspenal, you know? I mean, but that's the thing, though, I think he's too old for John Jones, though, too, at the same time. - Yeah, yeah. - But then that's my thing, though, like, does John Jones get beat by that motherfucker when he, it comes his time, you know? 'Cause Aspenal is a bad motherfucker, dude. Like, he is, he's a bad man, that guy. And he's young and he's hungry. Like, I mean, weirdies have seen, like, a very controversial fight between Don, but with him and Dominic Reyes, you know? Like, and I think, especially for what Dominic Reyes was compared to Aspenal, Aspenal now, like, I think Aspenal's miles ahead of what Dominic Reyes was. And, you know, we'll see how that one goes. That's gonna be an interesting one for sure. That's the big money fight right there, you know? - Oh, 100%. 100%. - As good as John Jones is, unfortunately, I don't know that every fighter has their time, you know? Well, maybe not every, 'cause like, what's that? Khabib, Khabib, I think Khabib got out before it was too late. I think he was-- - I think he got out at the right time for sure. - Yeah, he got out, like, not because he would've lost, but maybe he knew like, hey, I can't do this forever, you know? And so, you know, he was like, maybe he was like, I don't want to end up like Anderson Silva or any of the other guys, you know? So, like, my idol growing up, and he's still my idol, Jose Aldo. And when he lost, when he lost to Conor McGregor, bro, my heart broke so bad, I'll never-- - I mean, I loved Aldo as well, but like-- - He was hanging out, man. - It was just something about McGregor, to what I just saw, and I was like, bro, dude, like, this guy's, this guy's gonna sleep Aldo, like, and, you know, obviously, you know, it happened, you know? So it was definitely heartbreaking to see Aldo go down that way, but at the same time, you know, like, when it happened, I was just like, dude, like, McGregor's a bad man, like-- - Yeah. - That dude is on another level, but then again, you know, there's also shit going on with McGregor to where we don't even know if we're gonna see that full again. - And it's crazy because Aldo's older than McGregor, I think. - Oh, yeah. - McGregor is possibly out of the mix right now, and Aldo's back in the mix at 135 low-key, you know? - Bro, when I saw that dude come back into this shit again, I was just like, dude, like, what are you doing, man? - I, you know, I would, I don't want, I would hate to see him end up like Tony Ferguson, bro. - Oh, man. - That's another one. - I mean, Ferguson is, I just think, a whole different ballgame, like, he's a super nice guy. - Yeah, I just saw him, man. - I've trained with him a bit, you know, like, I've had my little glimpses, and I've seen, you know, how he trains and certain things, but, you know, like, you can just tell, like, when dudes are out of their front, you know? Like, when it's time, like, just to hang up those gloves, and I mean, he did, you know? I feel like, I feel like the only reason why, though, that he did hang up the gloves is because his next fight after this most recent one, it wouldn't have been in the UFC, UFC would have cut him. So he counted his losses, and he was like, all right, like, I don't wanna fight anywhere else by here, so I think it's, you know, it's my time, you know? So, I mean, it's definitely, I mean, it would, I know it'd be hard for me to hang up the gloves when it's my time, but you also have to, you have to know yourself, and know what you're capable of to be like, all right, like, this is my time. - So, I don't know if you know, okay, so I hadn't fought since 2012, right? And I was working a show that is now, I was working a show that was like, what do they call it? They called it Combat Sparring. One of those Combat Sparring shows, and I was working a show-- - Oh, like, yeah. - Like, combat jujitsu? - No, well, this one's like, like, they fight, but they weigh our head gear, right? So, there's still judges and referees, right? So, I'm reffing these fights, and they're, I guess, I don't know, one of the fighters didn't show up, and I hadn't fought since 2012, and they're like, "Andre, we need to fight," and they know I'm game. I'm just one of those game guys, just like, although, you know? I'm nothing close to all, I'm nothing close to all, though. - They'll get me wrong, right? I can't even compare. But, and this guy was like, you know, I back, I, you know, back in the day, I fought at 45. This guy was like, I don't know, 6-1, 6-2, 1-85, and I'm like, all right, I'm like, let's go. And he didn't like, mop me up. We had, it was, it was a good first round, and then like, he started to like, you know, he started to like, he was younger. His, I got a little tired, right? So, it was cool. We went off three rounds, right? You know, I lost, but, but now me and my boy, we wanna, we wanna, one of my old training partners, we wanna fight one time. We're like, let's go, let's just do it one time. Why not, you know? - Yeah, yeah. - Like the, all those things, the Tony Ferguson thing, like, I get it, man, 'cause like, I hadn't fought in, you know, 12 years, and I'm still like, man, throw me in, coach, like, I'll do it right now. - Yeah, like, I can do this just still, come on, man. What the heck? - Go. - Yeah, but this next one, this next one, I'll have been training with you guys for a bit. I'll, I'll probably cut to like, 170. And, you know, it'll, you know, it'll be, it'll be cool. But, you know, me and me and my boy, we're taking our time on that. You know, we'll probably make it happen later this year, or something like that. But yeah, that'll be cool, that'll be cool, man. - No, I did, definitely gotta let me know when that is. I wanna come see that shit. - Yeah, I already know, you already know. - Oh, you know what? I will say though, the venue will probably be at, Ben doesn't like that guy. - Oh, really? - That guy, Master Sean, from IFS, I don't know if you've heard Ben talk about it. - I think I'm, - Ben Fuffers, Bell, or he was supposed to fight for his Bell. - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's talking about that. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I'll let you know, he might not go, but if you go, that'll be dope, bro, you know? - No, yeah, I'll come and check it out for sure. - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, how long have you been training? - I have been training since I was 17 years old, and I'm 27 now, so like 10 years now. - Okay. - Yeah, I mean, I haven't always been obviously competing, you know, but like the way like it started out is, like I was a high school football player, you know, I did karate and shit when I was a kid, I wasn't a fan, you know, 'cause it was, you know, I'm not hitting nobody, you know, I'm not doing any of that, like I wanted to hit people. So, you know, when it came time, you know, to be in high school, you know, like obviously did football, didn't really go anywhere with that. And then right after high school, when I graduated, my buddy was just like, yo, like, you did karate when you were a kid, like, you've always had a knack for that, for combat sports, go to a UFC gym and just start training. And went to a UFC gym, started, you know, training, doing my thing, and, you know, the UFC gym that I was at wasn't one of the best UFC gyms in the world, it was more of a private-owned one. And, you know, I had my basic sound and I looked good enough to where they looked at me and, you need coaches here, like, you want a job? - Oh, yeah. - And I was like, all right, cool, yeah, no problem. I'm like an 18-year-old kid at the time, like teaching all these grown-ass adults, like how to fight with me barely knowing how to fight. But I also met, you know, people through that whole process that, you know, connected me to Coach Ben. And once I met Coach Ben, you know, it was, like, a process from there, you know, like, I started training, like, every day as much as I could, like, don't get me wrong, like, I wasn't always the most punctual when it came to actually doing all the training and staying consistent and doing all that stuff. But once, like, I was like, all right, like, it's time to, like, you know, take it serious. Like, I really, like, dug into it, you know? And then, like, once I really proved myself, like, I think, like, six months after that, like, I had my first amateur fight and it was a kickboxing fight. And, like, to me, like, in my eyes, I'm not sure if, you know, Coach Ben would confirm this, but, like, it was a kickboxing fight. And I feel like that was a test to see if I could really do the shit, you know? Like, like, see if I could handle myself, you know? And I ended up winning. I ended up winning from, from, you know, a second round TKO, like, the dude didn't want to come out for the third round. And I was just like, all right, cool. Like, and after that, you know, I was just like, yeah, like, I'm doing this now. Like, this is, once you get your hand raised for the first time, it's feeling like, you don't have your experience before, you know? So, I stuck with it ever since then. - That's the old man. I mean, so, okay, so 10 years in, 10 years in. You know, it's funny 'cause, like, you know, a lot of, I, well, I'll say, I guess I'll say us. Like, a lot of MMA guys, like us, like, you know, like, you hear about, like, boxers, boxers, like, maybe at the highest level, you know, they've been, they've been boxing for all of their lives. Like, literally, you know, since, like, they're, especially the Mexican ones, since they're, like, - Yeah. - Like, six, seven years old, right? Matter of fact, I just, my, my kid's nine. I just bought him some, some gloves, and I bought myself some mitts. - Oh, yeah. - Like, it's like, so, I started getting to get an anyway, man. And, you know, it's crazy because one of the things that I love about MMA is that, like me, I trained for, like, I don't know, I trained for, like, a year, and within the span of two years, I fought 10 times after training for, like, a year, right? - Oh, yeah, both, right. - And, like, in MMA, not that you, you, yes, you have to be good to compete. You have to be good, you have to train hard, you have to be dedicated. But it's like, so, because of all the mixture of, like, the different, like, techniques and all that, like, you don't have to have been training for 30 years to be a champion, you know? - Oh, yeah, 100%. - And it's just one of the beautiful things about the sport, you know? - Oh, 100%. 100%. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's a fight at the end of the day, you know? Like, MMA is so much different than boxing to where, like, you know, if someone's been training all their life, just to block these and throw these. - Yeah. - You know, they're gonna know the ins and outs of what to do, but, like, for sure. Not everybody's gonna be equipped, you know, to handle getting hit by an elbow, or a kick, you know what I mean? So, everyone always has, in MMA, has that puncher's chance. - Yeah, yeah, that's for sure. - Like, I've seen some dudes, like, at "Spar Star", I mean, in my head, like, thinking, like, I see them hitting mitts in the backing shit, and I'm like, "Bro, like, who is this guy?" Like, "This guy ain't got no business." But then they end up fucking winning, and I'm just rushing in all the time. So I'm like, "Bro, like, all right, like, that's what's up. Like, hell yeah, good for you, you know? Like, that's the stuff I like seeing, you know? Like, I love when people underestimate me, so I can only imagine how they feel, you know? So that's, I'm sure that's a great feeling for them. - You know, what you just said right now, I've been noticing that a lot lately, right? And so, I'm starting to wonder if, like, some of these guys that are, like, hitting pads in the back are, like, not putting on a show, but are kind of, like, like half-ass in it, so people see it, maybe, and they're like, "Oh, this dudes ain't got shit." You know, this guy ain't got shit, you know? And then they come out and they just steamroll the other guy and you're like, "Where the hell did that come from?" - Exactly, exactly, you know? - What's that adrenaline hits, man? Like, just, like, a different beast comes out, bro. - A adrenaline is one hell of a drug. - Oh, hell yeah, hell yeah. - A hell of a drug, man. - They say, you could do a lot of things with the adrenaline. - Oh, yeah. - Oh, yeah. - Oh, yeah. - So, training for about 10 years, you're, you know, you're right around, I feel like you're right around, you're right around, you're at a good point, you're at a good point. What are you working on right now? - Well, I've been, you know, honestly, like, I've been trying to just work on everything that I can, you know? Like, I don't want to be weak at anything, like, especially if I'm, if I'm to get to the UFC one day, like, especially nowadays in this game, you can't be weak at anything. Like, don't get me wrong, like, you can be like a top-notch striker, but then there can be this dude who's a fucking animal on the ground and just take you to the ground and take you into deep water and fucking drown you. - Yeah. - Like, that's, like, and that's happened to me before, you know? Like, don't get me wrong, like, that was my pro debut and the dude had, like, fucking 10 pounds on me, but like, it's one of the worst feelings in the world just to be laying on your back and not be able to stand back up. - Like, you know what's worse? You know what's worse, laying on your back. Okay, so like, I know exactly how you feel right now, 'cause like, I had decent hands, but some of the guys I lost you, they were all like wrestling since they were like kids, right? So, you know, they would kind of like, not lay and pray, but they would take me down, they wouldn't really land shots, right? And so I feel like what's worse is like getting taken down and not really being able to like, reverse, but like also not taking damage. - Yeah, yeah. - And losing a fight where you didn't take damage and maybe, maybe you, maybe you touched the other guy up on the feet, they're bleeding, you're perfectly fine, but they just kind of laid on you and the advanced position a little bit, but never really landed anything, you know? And then you still lose. - And that's my biggest thing too, that goes towards the judging, you know? Like, no matter what, like, if you're on your back, like, that look just looks bad. - Yeah, yeah. - You know, like, you can't be on your back. Like, if you're on your back, you're losing, like, that's, and it may not, you may not be losing because you may be cracking that dude from your back and splitting that dude open, God knows what, but to those judges, no, bro, you're on your back, you're losing, man. That's not winning a fight to me, but, you know, that's, you know, that just goes for, you know, the judging, you know, like, we can't really change how judges look at certain things, you know? - Yeah, you know, I think one of the, you know, I took Herb's class, I think I told you, it's one of the things, one of the reasons I've been doing Jiu Jitsu is 'cause I need to, you know, I need to brush up so I can go back to his class and pass that Judge Ref portion, right? And so one of the things I appreciate about myself is, you know, I fought, you know, I lost the wrestlers, I know what it's like to be on my back and to not take damage. So I feel like, not that I would plan, not that I would give a winning score to a guy that's on his back just for punching the other guy a couple times, but it gives me more of like an insight to be like, okay, like, is he really in danger? No, is he taking shots? No, did he do a lot more standing up on his feet? Yes, you know what I mean? And so like, and so, you know, I feel like that's gonna be a good thing for me. You know, I hear a lot of, I hear, it's crazy because I hear a lot of people talk shit about the judges. I'm not saying you work, but like I hear people talk shit about judges, right? And so then they're like, oh, it's so easy to be a judge. Anybody could be a judge. And I'm like, hold up. I'm like, I used to fight. I took Herb's class. I know, I know basic jujitsu. I know what the moves look like. I might not be able to do them all right now, but someone who fought, someone who knows and trained, right? If I can't pass the judge in portion, do you think some random Joe off the street is? No, probably not. Yes, I mean, that's a good point. In California, at least, I don't know about the other states, but in California, and maybe it wasn't always like this, but as of right now, the way it looks like is like that Herb Dean facilitates it so that like you got to know some jujitsu. You got to know some striking. You got to know how to move, you know? Like one of the things they had us do was like, you know, the warm up drills for jujitsu, that we're having us do those to make sure we were mobile enough to even do those, like in the cage, you know what I mean? And that's the thing though too. Like that's like, you make a really good point. Like the judges, especially for MMA, like I feel like I'm not sure where I heard this from. Like when MMA first started becoming like a mainstream thing, like the judges were the judges for boxing fights. - Yeah. - Like people who have never seen jujitsu before in their life, you know? So like, you know, I'm not sure if that's 100% true, but I just personally feel like if you are going to be a judge for MMA, you need to have some kind of fight experience or jujitsu experience, you know? Anything that is related to MMA, you should have a bit of experience. And, you know, because if I'm on my back and I'm throwing up submissions on a dude and this dude's not doing anything back to me, like I personally think I'm winning. You know, I'm throwing up all these submission attempts. I'm doing, I'm moving, I'm advancing the fight. You know, like, you know, it is what it is. If judges do have that experience and if they don't, like, at the end of the day, I don't want the fight to go to the judges anyways. So I'm going to do everything I can in my ability to not let it go to that point. - Yeah, you know, and that's why they tell everybody, hey, worst case scenario, don't let this fight go to the judges, you know? Don't let them, you know, don't make them do their job. You know, you know, obviously we know that in a fight, it's a lot harder to knock someone out or submit somebody than it is to say it. You know, it's way harder, but, you know, that's, you know, for those out there that don't really know the sport or think that, you know, judges and refs are bad, like, hey man, like, you know, if you want to fight and you got it in you, then, you know, go out there, lay it all out on the line and, you know, and make sure that win or lose, you know, you know, you did your thing, you know? - 100%, 100%. - So, okay, so do you have any future fights coming up? Anything? - You know, they, I know that there was, there's something going on for, for "Spar Star" on September 14th. - Yes, there is. Yeah. - You know, we haven't really gotten an opponent yet, you know? - Oh, we're going, oh, oh. - We'll see if, if that happens, you know? So, you know, I'm not gonna, you know, say any specific names or anything like that, if the names come. - Right. - So, I just want to say this. So, look, so I'm good friends with Tony. I used to be on his cage, right? I kind of know the get down of that show, right? And I kind of know that there may be a few fighters that were introduced at the last "Spar Star", right? And I, from what I understand, they're only going to have like three pro fights. - I have more. - Maybe more. Maybe more, I don't know. - I have no idea. - We'll see, as of right now, as of right now, without saying too much and without saying anything names, I do know there is one other 135 that's supposed to fight as "Spar Star". So, we'll see, you know, as things go forward, we'll see. - Hey, bro, we'll see. - We'll see, right? - I'm not gonna give out no information. - I know, you know your side and I know my side, you know? And, you know, at the end of the day, like, you know, all that matters is that both of you guys go out, whoever it is, both of you guys go out there and do your thing, put on a good show and, you know, get to go home safe and sound and know that you did your job. - Go home with some money. - And, yeah, go home with some money, dog, you know? - Yeah. - Dude, I'm excited, man. You know, you know, they say back in the day, Tony was doing pro shows and, you know, it was just a little too much back then, but now that he's like, what? Like, 53 or 54th "Spar Star" is in, you know? Now he's like, let's go, I got this, you know? - Yeah, no, yeah. - Yeah, 100%. And like, that's, like, that's my thing, though, too. What I love to fight on this "Spar Star" card, 100%. Like, that's, that's almost like home, you know? Like, I fought my whole amateur career there. Like, there'd be nothing better than to be there, you know? Like, I would love it. But, you know, it's all about, you know, having everything lined up. - Yeah, the timing. - You know, it's the timing. I don't wanna, you know, it's my pro record at the end of the day, you know? Like, I ain't trying to, you know, just jump into a fight just because, you know, the money's there or, you know, like, or any, for any reason to that fact, you know? Like, I'm trying to, to keep everything the way that it should be done. I wanna done the right way. I ain't just gonna jump into some shit, you know? - Yeah, that's a smart way to do it, you know? Especially when you consider like having longevity in the sport, you know? - Oh, 100%. - Yeah. So, that's smart. I wanna say real quick, I'm used to seeing you with the haircut, man. (laughing) - Yeah, man, I grew up my shit, bro. I grew it all night. - Are you going out? - Yeah, no, no, I'm not growing it out long, but like, I got, I got over the buzz cut for a while, like, and I'm just gonna do something new. One of these days, man, you're gonna have to let me cut your hair one of these days, man. - All right, bro, all right, bro. You gotta give me a nice, slick fade, bro. - Yeah, yeah, oh, I'm the, I'm the, I'm known for my fades. I'm known for those fades. - For sure. - I'm known for both kind of fades, you know? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - That's what I mean. So, before, I don't know much time left to you guys, but before, you know, I don't wanna take up too much of your time, before, you know, we log off. Where do you see, where do you see, where do you see MMA going right now? You think it's going into a good place? - Oh, 100%, man. Like it's, there's, there's so many different avenues that you can go down, you know? Just in the fight game period, you know? Like, don't get me wrong. Like, you want to get to the, you know, the premier fucking league, you know? You wanna get to the UFC, but, you know, say, you know, you can't get to the UFC or the UFC doesn't want you. You know, you got fucking, you got one championship, you got, you know, the PFL, you got all these other fighting leagues that will pay you, you know, good money. - Yeah. - You know, like, you can make a decent living off of all this, you know? I think, you know, MMA is headed in a great direction. Like, don't get me wrong, I love boxing. Boxing is, you know, it's a beautiful sport, but, you know, MMA is just, you know, taking over, you know? 'Cause like, it's, at the end of the day, it's a true fight and people want to see that true fight. Like, as if, you know, like, it's no disrespect to boxing or anything like that, but it's, with boxing, you're only getting, like, one eighth of a fight, you know? Like, you're only getting the hands, you know? Like, MMA, you're getting everything, you know? Like, that's the closest thing to a true fight that you're ever gonna get to. So I think people just really want to see that in itself, you know? So as far as MMA goes, it's heading in the perfect direction, in my opinion. - You know, it's kind of like, it's kind of, it's the closest thing to, you know, I think, you know, for the people who love it, you know, I think, you know, down deep inside, like, when you think about what MMA is, and I think I've heard this reference before, it's like the closest thing you can get nowadays to like, an old school gladiator fight, you know? - Oh, 100%. Like, and that's something that my girl always tells me too, we were watching, like, we were watching the movie Gladiator and she was just like, you know, you're like a modern day gladiator. And I was like-- - That's right. - You bet you're at S.I.M. Like, I'll take that shit any day. Like, that's what you want to be known for, you know? You want to know that you can defend yourself at any given moment in time, you know? - Yeah, man, you know, especially, you know, especially nowadays, man, like, I think this world is so crazy, you know? The root that this world is going, the, you know, the root that, you know, some of our population is going, you know, our younger generations are going, you know, the root that are, you know, that our men are going. And like, it's just, you know, I feel like, you know, MMA and like, combat sports is what keeps, you know, the real ones, like, you know, where they need to be, you know? - Yep. - You know, I feel like, you know, I feel like, I don't know, honestly, man, I don't, you know, even after not fighting, you know, the reason I don't find any more is from that, because of a bad accident I had, like, in 2012, motorcycle accident, and even after that, I was still obsessed with MMA, man. If it wasn't for MMA, if it wasn't for MMA, like, I don't know where my life would be, man. Like, you know what I mean? - I can completely relate to that. Like, MMA has made me a much nicer person to be around. For sure, like, I had all this pent up anger, resentment, and all that shit, but once I started getting into this sport, it was so much easier for me to, like, let all that shit go. Like, it is so much easier just to go into the gym and just be like, ah, like, all right, like, I get to punch somebody in the face right now, and it's gonna be a ton of fun. - Yeah, right, and we ain't even doing it mad. - No, it's like doing it mad, you know? Like, I get, like, coach Ben, oh, which tells us, like, bro, like, you guys are, like, borderline psychopaths. Like, you guys like to come into the gym every single day and punch, kick, and wrestle each other. And you guys have a good time doing that. Not very many people like doing that shit, like, other people will, like, come into the gym every now and then, like, while we're training, and look at us, like, we are crazy people, like, oh my God, like, these dudes are just fighting each other right now, and it's 10 o'clock in the morning, like, what the hell? Like, this ain't normal, you know? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, I wouldn't want to do anything else, you know? - Yeah, I don't know, man. And Coach Ben, and he is one of the most intense people, intense people I've ever made in my life, bro. - Oh, yeah, man. - Yeah, he is, that dude is honestly just, literally the most loyal person that you could ever have in your corner. Like, if I called that man, like, if I was at a bar and these dudes are about to come and jump me, I could call this dude, and he would be there ready to fight with me. - That's right. - Like, that dude is ready to go for any one of us at any given time. - That's right, that's some man. That's tough, that's a good coach, yeah? He's a good man. - Oh, 100% really good, yeah. - He's a really good guy. You know, I feel like, I think, you know, I see, like, I know he gets frustrated a lot with, like, the commission, camo officials, you know, and to see this other side of him, like, it's really helped me, like, understand, like, who he is, you know, and understand, you know, like, at the fights, like, what's going on, you know? - Yeah. - You know, 'cause, like, even back, man, back when I met him, like, I don't know, a couple of years ago, like, you know, at first, like, you know, he doesn't, he takes a while to warm up to people, you know? - Oh, yeah, yeah. - But once you get past that, every time she ate, what's up, man, how you doing? - Oh, yeah, I'm gonna say. - So, you have to, I don't want to say, earn his loyalty and respect, but, like, you got to show him, like, that you're down for him as well, you know, like, you can't just go into it and just be like, you know, like, I want that treatment as well and not have anything to show for it, you know? - Yeah. - Like, you got to earn it, you know? - Yeah, yeah, for sure, that's, you know, that's what, when I started looking for a gym, I don't know who, I might have been Dave Dinkin' that I was like, hey, man, I live in Irvine, like, I need to find a gym close by. And there might be, there is a gym closer to me. You've heard of Rounders. - Oh, yeah, I know exactly where Rounders are. - But, you know what, I went there once and it's not, it's not me, it's just not for me, you know? - Yeah, man, I mean, it's, you know, you'll find, you'll find your city, you know, where you're still comfortable, you know? - Yeah, man, so, you know, I love the den, you know, when I get to go out there, I'm so busy, like, I don't get a lot of chances, you know, but, you know, like, I'll probably be, I'll be there next week, I'll be there next week, you know? And, you know, it's a good spot, it's a great, it's a great location, great place, it's a good vibe, you know? And, you know, it feels good. - The MMA isn't about the belts and the medals, you know? But just being able, like, just knowing that you're training with the room for the killers, like-- - Oh, yeah. - You know what I'm saying? - Yeah, we, when we come, when we go in there, man, we go in there and we bring it, bro, like, we, we don't fuck around up in there. - Yeah, that's what we like to be known for. - Hey, as you should. Before we sign off, you know, I wanna see if you got, you know, any words for, like, aspiring fighters or, you know, any, any, any type of inspiration or motivation you wanna give to anybody. - Uh-huh, my biggest thing is, you know, for anyone that is, you know, trying to get into the sports, you know, don't let anyone tell you that you should not be doing it. You know, I had everyone, when I told people that I was, you know, thinking about doing this or I was going to do it, everybody shot me down. Everybody told me, like, nah, you can't do that. You're gonna get mopped on, you're gonna, you ain't gonna make it. As long as you're able to have that self-belief in yourself and, you know, you are willing to fully commit to doing it because it's a lifestyle. It really is, like, you can't go into the shit half-assed. Like, if you're gonna do it, do it with everything you've got and just don't let anyone else change your mindset. If you got a mission, you gotta stick to that. That's my biggest piece of advice. Don't let nobody tell you that you can't do that because as, this is gonna sound super cliche, as Kobe Bryant says, like, we can all be masters at our craft. Yep. All you have to do is just be willing to put that time and sacrifice the time of going out and, you know, going and having a good time and hanging with friends and, you know, just bullshit. Sacrifice that time for being in the gym, you know, learning and, you know, making yourself better 'cause at the end of the day, even if you don't fight, combat sports is good just for your mentality, you know? It makes you a better person in that sense. You learn a lot about yourself. You learn a lot about yourself. So, yeah, my biggest thing is just, you know, believe in yourself, believe in yourself. If you think you can do it, don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. Oh, yeah, man. One more thing, what do you think about everything that's going on in the world right now, specifically in our country? (laughs) I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer, but I gotta ask, you know? Bro, it's crazy, right? It's crazy, man. It's crazy. Like, I'm not like a huge political guy or anything like that, like, but I know no matter what happens in, you know, the election or anything that's coming on, coming up, shit, it's going to get fucking wild. It's going to get wild. It's going to get fucking wild and, you know, no matter who fucking wins or, you know, what goes on, you know, abroad or anything like that, things are going to get crazy in my opinion, so. As good as the matter of-- Just trying to stay ready. Yeah, right? As a matter of fact, not saying I'm for or with or against anybody, I was with Ben and, what's his name? With the curly hair? Kyle Pierce? I was with Ben and Kyle as, I think either lights out or a spar star when Trump got shot, I was with them. Kyle was like, "Hey, look, Trump got shot." I was like, "What the hell?" And we were right there, like, we were like going through our phones, like going out throughout the news and then. I'm like telling everybody, "Hey, Trump got shot, bro. We'll check this shit out. This is crazy." And everybody's like, "Oh, what the hell?" Like, yeah, we were, man, you know, we're all right there. That's connected to that whole fucking thing. Like, that's far wild in that sense, too. Yeah, there's so much shit coming out about that. But, you know, I, yeah, we'll see what goes on. At the end of the day, political should decide, I just hope that at some point, we have someone that has the best interest for our country and fucking help us. Fucking, you know, give back to me. - Not even running for the country, just for the people, man. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. 'Cause at the end of the day, that's what makes the country, so. - Yeah, yeah, so, you know, hopefully we can, we can all make it out of this alive and, you know, and, you know, together. I really appreciate you coming on here and giving me some of your thoughts, man. And I know you, I'm sure you're tired from work. - Ah, man, I'm cool, man. I'm good right now. But I get a few, a couple bites to eat and just chill and, you know, watch some fights or some shit. I don't know. - Yeah, bro, yeah, yeah. And I'll probably be seeing you next week, all right? - Yes, sir. - All right, Brandon, thank you so much, man. Tell the people where they can find you on Instagram, so they can follow you. - You guys can find me at Brandon Orange to underscore MMA on Instagram. And TikToks is pretty much the same thing. Brandon Orange, underscore MMA. - All right, man, thank you so much. Have a good night, bro. - For you too, brother. - All right. [BLANK_AUDIO]