Today, we are talking about how to embrace the AI revolution in your business and how to really make it work for you. My guest today is Lucian Heriot, and I'll tell you more about him in a second, so stay tuned. Welcome to the Smart Business Revolution podcast, where we feature top entrepreneurs, business leaders, and thought leaders, and ask them how they built key relationships to get where they are today. Now, let's get started with the show. All right, welcome everyone. John Corcoran here, the host of the show. You know, if you've listened before, each week, I talk to smart CEOs, founders, and entrepreneurs from all kinds of companies and organizations ranging from we've had Netflix and Kinko's YPO, EO, GrubHub, LendingTree, OpenTable, and many more. And of course, this episode brought to you by RISE25, my company where we'll help B2B businesses get clients, referrals, and strategic partnerships with Dunfield podcast and content marketing. And I'm excited today because we're going to be talking about this emerging technology of AI, which is a really interesting topic that we've been tracking really closely. What company has it, you have to be living under a rock if you haven't noticed it. And I put out a call to ask a group of entrepreneurs about who is doing interesting things with AI. And I came across Lucian. Lucian is the executive producer at Mechanism Digital. It's a studio based in New York City. They focus on visual effects, animation, innovative media and marketing and entertainment. They have an interesting mix of work because they do feature films and they also do corporate work. They have an interesting mix, and he's got a diverse background having worked in visual effects and creative work for many years, for 25 plus years now. Also, as a member of the producers Guild of America and based out of the SOHO neighborhood in New York City. And Lucian, such a pleasure to have you here today. And I love to ask people about what they were like as a kid and any kind of side hustles that they had as a kid. And you saw an opportunity when the gas crisis of the late 70s came across and saw people stuck in the heat of the summer, winning in line for hours to get their gas. And you saw dollar signs. Tell us about it. Fantastic. Well, thanks, John. I'm glad to be here and such a great list of companies. I exciting to be a part of that list. So, yeah, this is the beginning of my entrepreneurial adventure. But when I was about 12 years old, late 70s, they had the gas lines in New York City. And they would go on for like a quarter mile or a half a mile. And people were just waiting there for hours. And it was hot. It was the summertime. And a friend of mine and I, we realized that there was this opportunity to possibly sell these folks some sodas. So I had known a while ago, there was a Soho soda distributor. And I said, oh, I know where to buy sodas cheap. And we can walk around with a cooler device on a dolly and go to car to car and sell these sodas. So we went over there and we probably bought soda cans for like 15 cents a piece. And said, all right, what are we going to sell these for? And my friend Peter and I, we were talking a bunch. And we decided, you know what, the best soda machine that we knew was 25 cents a soda. And everybody wanted to buy sodas from that soda machine. So that's got to be the perfect amount of money to sell these sodas for. So we went got a whole bunch of them, got a bunch of ice. I learned what dry ice was. That was the coolest thing in the world. Just be careful with it. So yeah, we walked from car to car. And those sodas sold like hotcakes. People wanted them. So we realized, you know, a lot of people like Coke and Sprite and whatever. And selling them again and again, and then we ran out, we had to run back to the distributor, which is probably another half a mile away, ran as fast as we could and come back. And kept doing that for a day, maybe two days. It was hot, hot, hard work. And at the end, we started counting our money and realizing how much money we were making per hour. And I don't really remember what it was. But I remember that we were not excited about how much money we brought out of that situation. And realized that we'd only made about 10 cents off of each soda, what it all amounted to, and the amount of work, and the amount of hours. And that was a really good lesson for me about selling to value, you know, not necessarily what that product is. It's what we bring, you know, it was door to door service. And people were hot and they couldn't get out of their cars. And that was a super important lesson to me. So we didn't make much money charging the same amount as if someone walks across the building or the parking lot to the vending machine and gets it out of the vending machine themselves. But you're delivering it to them as they're sitting as they're desperate. They're hot. They would pay any amount for those cokes, probably. And we picked the cheapest machine that we could think of because that was going to sell the most, right? So we thought we were going to make it up in volume, right? So that was a good lesson. And I got to say, I've been in business now for almost 30 years, and I still try to give away everything. You know, I just love what I do, and I just want to give the best product. So there's always this little lesson that I need to continue to learn to sell on value. It's a win-win situation, right? What's it worth for them? What's it worth for us? And make the best situation out of it. So yeah, and you're a creative professional, someone, you know, people tend to be drawn to that because they have a combination of skill and interest. And then you kind of have to divorce yourself from that and put yourself in the position of someone who doesn't have skill or interest in developing visual effects and what they would pay for that, what it value it provides to them, whether it's plugging it into, you know, a major motion picture, or whether it's in other case, other work that you do working with doctors and healthcare and creating education that's digestible. Yeah, it's whether we're doing entertainment for future films or education and corporate communications, like you said, for healthcare, it doesn't matter, we're telling stories. And us as artists, we love to tell the stories. And we would sit there and work on it all night long and not even count the hours, right? My employees sometimes are like, "I'm just going to spend a little extra time on it because I just want to make it right." Because we just absolutely love this stuff. And as the business by business has grown, mechanism digital has needed to add people. And although I started as an artist, kind of freelance jumping around different companies, and then I hired somebody to be an artist, and then I became more of an art director or producer or a creative director and wearing all these different hats. And now I hire people that are much better artists than I am. And just because the tools have grown, but what I need to continue to remind myself is to divorce myself from wanting to give as much as I possibly can to the point where the business is losing money. Even though I'm not the artist anymore, it's hard to not want to make it perfect all the time and let's just spend a little extra effort. So we have to find that fine balance, right? We want the customers to get the best product. But there is a point where we need to move on to another project. And so it's always changing and evolving. And you started your career actually working for you did animation visual effects for PBS, and then later worked for HBO, doing visual effects there as well. Two iconic movie companies known for quality of their productions. What did you learn from those experiences? What did you take away from that that maybe you apply today? Interesting. I don't know if that's good or bad. So I learned to attention to detail is super important. And when I worked at those places, we were often working by the hour. I actually still work for those companies, but we end up working as a vendor. But it's funny that I decided to start my company because these bigger companies had a lot of what I call corporate sort of that overhead and infrastructure, which seemed to take a lot of time and meetings and waste. And so I decided to start my own company because I wanted to get away from that, but then realized the bigger the company gets, the more you have to embrace this. And it's just about structure and about making it work. And the whole corporate, what I always thought was sort of a bad, not a bad word, but I just, you know, corporate is it all sounds so negative. But if you do it right, hopefully it's not taking the fun out of the situation. So I was just talking with my friend, Kevin Waldron, who just he introduced me to the book, The Emith by Michael Gerber, which that book is all about this story of this, you know, fictional baker who loves baking. So she goes and opens a bakery. And then she finds that she's doing everything payroll, bookkeeping, everything but doing the thing that she loves, which is baking, right? For you who was drawn to this industry, visual effects, animation, for your love for the actual craft of it. Now you find yourself running a business. How have you managed to balance those two to balance your original love with the fact that, you know, running a business, you've got to run the business, you got to do bookkeeping, you got to do payroll, all that other stuff. Yeah, good. You know, it's an Emith. I read that book and then I started, I was a convert and I started handing it out to everybody. And then I realized I didn't completely understand it until years later, then I understand it more. But it was a, what was it, a technician with an entrepreneurial seizure, yeah. So love the story about baking pies and the creative behind baking pies, but it really comes down to ingredients. And I still think about that story that Michael Gerber talked about and that you just have to create a system and then follow the system. And the creative is around the edges. The creative is sort of the extra stuff that we kind of figure out. But there's a lot of things that we do on every project, we set up projects, we have all these SOPs to make sure that they're all set up correctly so that if you hand off the project to somebody else, it's not a bunch of chaos. And we've learned to embrace and enjoy that because when all of the details are in order, that allows us to enjoy the creative stuff that when we take a project in a new direction and we invent something nobody's ever seen before, that's where that can be fun, where if we're so mired down in the chaos because it wasn't set up correctly or we didn't follow the SOP, then we don't get a chance to play and enjoy quite as much. So it's taken a bit to understand myself and then try to teach it to new people that joined the company. We built lots of interesting systems and databases. And now I find that my paintbrush is just bigger. Like when I was an artist, I felt like I never really used a paintbrush. It was all digital for me, but I used to create things. But now I can create things that are even bigger. And the business is also an extremely creative outlet for me, not just the content that we create. And what about for new team members that come in? Do you ever struggle to explain to them the importance of following an SOP? You get a new art school graduate and try to explain them, well, you've got to follow this system. Maybe I'm ignorant here, but I'm visualizing some comes in. I'm a creative. I'm an artist. I can't be constrained. How do you explain to them the importance of following a system following a process? I guess it's just, yeah, you'd have to try to explain it. And then hopefully everybody else in the company sets an example and does puts things in their proper boxes. You clean up your desk when you're done. And then it's hard to just teach. It's something that somebody will go off and on a tangent thinking they're helping or being more creative. And then it realizes that it actually causes problems for other people in the chain of command. And then we have to sit and talk about it for a moment. It's not a bad thing. It's just part of the learning process. And it's happened to me a million times and it'll happen to everybody who comes into the company. Our SOPs are not completely foreign, but every company has their own. And so everybody has to learn something a little bit new. So it is harder with the newer people coming in. Usually the new people don't think they're the greatest artists in the world. They're often very unsure of themselves. And the people who come in that know a lot about creativity and have been around bigger companies have always been around systems. So it's usually not too hard. Everybody wants to fight again that corporate sort of term. But we know it's a necessary evil to do good work. You've got this an amazing background of a lot of interesting things that I'm just going to reel off a few of them because they're a little mind boggling. All right, summer summers in nudist communities, that's plural. So I want to know more about that. Living you lived on a Tennessee school bus at one point, an Amsterdam houseboat, led a blind rudder through two marathons volunteered at ground zero, gone to Burning Man while I'm in Northern California. So that's not an oddball one. That's probably the most straight laced of all of them racing classic sports cars. I saw somewhere that you're a pilot motorcycle crashes scuba with sharks. I'm probably missing a few. But my question is other than that, obviously, just making for an interesting life, does that inform the work that you do? Or did you chase those experiences in part because it helps as kind of like a fuel that goes into the creativity that your company ultimately produces for clients? Gosh, I love that. They're kind of work hand in hand. So my dad was an engineer and I kind of grew up understanding how things work. And then there's physics and so some of the jobs that we work on, we do explaining technical, there's this company where we have, they have liquid rubber that they seal subway tunnels with and they're always trying to explain how things work. And we do this also with the healthcare. So how does that sort of work with swimming with sharks? I don't know. There's a lot of technical things that I love playing with technical toys. Scuba tanks and skateboards, learning to fly. Today I was actually working with one of my artists. We have a show open where there's an eagle flying and trying to help him understand when the eagle turns and how it turns and why. And then we started talking about airplanes and how when an airplane turns, it loses about 25% of its air under its wings. And so you have to pull up to keep it from falling. And so there's constantly this turning is not like a car. And so that it helped him. And then I explained it like a pendulum. So there's a lot of fun physics and I used to build recording studios as well. So that's kind of how I got into more technical stuff that was the technical behind the creative. And so all of these life experiences, I don't know how nudist colonies sort of fits into that. That was something my parents I grew up with. It depends on the assignment, I guess, right? Yeah, so I lived on a commune for a while and we did live in a school bus that had a pot belly stove to heat it. But and so yeah, that's just it's a colorful background. I try to draw on, so it's been fun. And we continue to try to do fun things. So well, I guess what I'm getting from it, you can reflect on whether I'm right or wrong about this, but there's a lot of left brain and right brain going on here. You've got a technical side, you mentioned engineering father got a creative side also. And both those two meld together. Like one of the things that you do is helping helping to create animated videos for healthcare and explaining really complex topics, but in a digestible way. Yeah, so the goal ultimately is teaching a broader audience, right? If so, a couple people know and it can explain something, we have to tease that out of the client. This could be a concept in we were talking about this film where all the oxygen has gone. And we had to explain that concrete falls a part of there's no oxygen on the planet. So the buildings fall down, but also the medical side. And our job is to take these complex concepts, whether they're entertainment or marketing or education, and then deliver them out to the masses to the thousands or to the hundreds of thousands, a million maybe in the course of a feature film. And I get very excited about not only understanding about the medical and how to explain that to the masses, but also helping the client to understand the process of animation and visual effects. So people come to us and say, well, we think we want this building on fire and we're not really sure how to do that. And then my job is to try to figure out what's the best approach to getting that done. So there's not just telling the story to the masses, but also helping the client understand their options, what some of the challenges might be of those options, the costs might be, and what might be some of the shortcomings if they choose the lower cost versions, right? Is it going to be a motion capture? Is it going to be a green screen? So we start using AI, right? This is so I love the opportunity to teach, I guess. And that's whether it's within my employees, with the customers or the ultimate audience. Yeah. And you touched on AI. And we're recording this in beginning of 2024. But last year, 2023, there was an actor strike and a writer strike that affected Hollywood and a lot of the production that actually affected your business. And a lot of it had to do with AI had to do with this, you know, oncoming revolution in AI that's happening. But you actually have embraced it, even though, you know, some might think from the outside that you're in an industry in a profession that could be dramatically affected in a negative way from AI. So take us through that. Why have you embraced it rather than running away from it? Great. Yeah. There's a lot of mixed feelings about AI in our industries, especially as an artist, because we as artists feel like it might be taking away some of that creative power or fun that we've had. So it's really changing a lot of the way we work. I'm looking at it as a new tool or it's not a tool in itself, but AI is now seeping into all these other tools everywhere. And if I could just, you know, jump to the end is that if we don't embrace the AI, we're going to get replaced by it sooner. And I don't think there's any stopping AI. There's a lot of moral questions as to whether or not they're training it on somebody's copyrighted material. But ultimately, I think it's an extremely powerful tool, whether we're creating imagery or video or text or marketing concepts or writing emails sometimes. It's an amazing tool in everybody's industry. And there's a lot of, again, a lot of artists that are worried that it's going to take away. We do a lot of brainstorming with it. So at the beginning of a project, we had a film where a client wanted to see what New York would look like. I mentioned earlier about no oxygen, no water, any longer in the river. So under the Brooklyn Bridge, it was all going to be dry. And we were able to type in a few prompts. And this is a year ago, this is fairly early on, and generate a bunch of images. We used, I don't know, mid-journey or dolly or stable diffusion, and we generated a bunch of images which he could react to and decide what he did or didn't like about different sort of conceptual ways to show the city falling apart, New York City. And after we got a direction, we were able to start building 3D models and sort of building out what was necessary to animate this. So it gave us the opportunity to leapfrog over one of the steps. We didn't jump over it, but we got through it very quickly. Now, this might be a problem for people who do mood boards or conceptual art. And I can see that this is going to be an issue. I mean, this has always happened in every industrial revolution or every big change in industry. Somebody often is replaced or they have to switch their job to something else. And we're seeing, we never expected it to be artists. That was the thing that we thought creativity was really kind of a surprise. A lot of people thought that creativity would come way later and it's come much sooner. Yeah. Sorry to say this, but we thought us humans were very special in our creativity and realizing maybe we're all that, right? Or we've been working for decades or 100 years trying to build computers that could replace a lot of work and all of a sudden it happened and we're like, wait a second. What happened? Who would have thought these computers could replace humans, you know? We've been working towards them for 30, 40 years. Yeah. And then the other interesting observation is just that there's no killer app with this revolution. It's many different apps or rather like what you said is that this it's like every software that you use is incorporating AI into the back end. It's not just one thing, although there are ones like mid-journey you mentioned or dolly or something like that. But it's rather like every different tool out there is incorporating AI in some way. Yeah. There's our 3D animation software is now you can type in that you want a particular texture. Like if we wanted a brick texture on the side of a house, we used to go find a photograph. Now we just say, make me a brick texture. Oh, that's a little bit too red. Oh, the bricks are too big. Oh, make them a little bit irregular. And now we can adjust things and that's built into a 3D animation software where there's some other sort of almost like motion capture softwares and finding that they're all in browser. So that's actually a big shift in a lot of software. We said download these really big packages and have them on our supercomputers. And now we go to the browsers and we can open up these tools in the browsers. And there's many, many tools all over the place, whether it's hugging face and you have to get yourself a discord account or it is you just log in and you pay $5 a month and you use it. So we're constantly pulling from one browser tool and bringing it to another one. So actually our creativity now we're finding is finding the tools and putting them together in interesting ways and always keeping our eye on what the new tools are that are popping up. So it's like our toolbox is all of a sudden getting all these interesting new tools that there used to be the you could saw something and you could nail together. But now they got this thing that saws and nails at the same time. And we're like, okay, well, that sort of shortcut is a step. But now we can actually build things upside down because you used to have to build it all on the bench. So it's new ways of working. And that's really exciting to me. It's really a lot of fun. Yeah. Now another one affecting your industry is VR headsets, which of course, we're recording this in February 2024 and the Apple Vision Pro just came out. And it's really interesting seeing some of the actual real world reviews that are coming out of that product. I a friend of mine who I respect very technologically savvy was basically comparing it to the iPhone. Like you said, I remember first trying the iPhone and being blown away. And he felt like it was a similar experience. Do you see that product having a big impact on your industry? Yes, I mean, we've been working in VR, AR, XR, next gen, whatever you want to call it for many, many years, it always depended on what it was like we were creating apps in 2006 on the Apple phone. And that was the new interactive. And the VR in the 360 has been something I've enjoyed. We still have special tripods for it. Now there's cameras that you can just take a 360 photo, no big deal. But the headset has always been an interesting way to be in the middle and view something. And so that's been a fun thing. But I know that we're going to get these phones out of our pockets. And we're going to be putting them on our faces and as goggles. And that's going to happen. And it's going to happen pretty soon. Because it's silly to always having to pull your phone out of your pocket and look at it. And we're going to start having Google Glass try to get this a while back. And then maybe a little early. They have a use case. And I think they're actually selling quite a lot of those to a very specific bunch of folks. And then the quest came out, Facebook. And that was more game centric. And now Vision Pro, I think they finally realized the way to get everybody is to figure out what's that killer sort of operating system, if you will. And you can, I understand you plug it in and your Apple accounts and all of your apps and all of your information shows up. And so now you can be watching a video. And while you're doing a text, while you're communicating with somebody else outside of the park. And that sounds a little wacky at the moment. And I've seen people walking around New York with them. But that is going to be something that we all do is that you're going to be out someplace and your computer is going to be with you. And it's just not going to be in your hand. You'll always be seeing it. And you walk up to somebody at a party. And you don't have to remember your name, because it's going to tell you, did you do that? That's John over there. Say hi, right? Or be helpful. Where's the bathroom? All of a sudden, there's going to be this augmented reality arrow arrow that shows you where the bathroom is, or it's going to be a heads up display for all of us. And it's the future. And I think it's early right now. And so it looks a little odd, but snapped to 10 years from now. And it's just going to be in our glasses. And everybody who doesn't wear glasses will start wearing them because they're just not going to want to pull this thing out of their pocket anymore. Yeah. Yeah, I heard someone say the crazy thing about that particular product is this is the worst it will always be. This will all be the worst version of it. You know, it's just going to get better. And it's already pretty mind blowing. Yeah. We say that about AI too. This is the worst AI is ever going to be. Yeah. Yeah. And anything, everything, right? So yeah, big changes this year. It's it's an exciting time to be alive. That's for sure. What else any other tools or developments or trends that you're excited about in the industry? Gosh, I can't stop talking about AI, but I don't want to make this an AI show. No, it's totally fine. I mean, it is affecting everything. So yeah. So in the AI, we use mostly imagery, but the text AI is happening. You know, chat GPT is now just become a regular thing. And now Google is being really threatened with what's the new one? Being chat or no, no, no, it's perplexity, perplexity, no, look out, Google, perplexity is the new Google. So it's it's just they've they've embraced the AI portion of things better. And it sort of works with you and asks you, what do you really need? So there's going to be a lot more back and forth. I think we're going to see, you know, the movie her, we're going to see some things that are like that, where you're going to be communicating a lot more with your personal assistant. It's going to a lot of the overseas work that was the redundant, what for us, it's a lot of rotoscoping and tracking and that stuff. They're going to lose a lot of that work because AI is just going to start to do that. And hopefully all of us end up elevating, right, the the the rising tide elevates all boats. And we won't have to do the redundant stuff anymore. And we will become more creatives. The we're going to we're more going to be quality control, less creative, and more sort of helping the direction of something. So we still have a while to go. I mean, AI will make a beautiful image, but is it really the image that you needed for the job, right? It might be fun to cool and beautiful. And maybe you'd want to put it on your wall, but did it really help you in our case to sell toothpaste or just to help a doctor understand a concept more? So that's that hasn't replaced us yet. And that's going to be a little while. Yeah, it's moving fast. It's funny because the one that I have stuck in my head is the idea of like an elevator operator. Like before we had elevator operators, you know, when it was considered a safety matter, like no way could we have humans press the button themselves. We had to have a guy who stood there. But imagine how mind-numbingly boring that was for that person. And I'm sure there was an elevator operator's guild that was up in arms about the idea of automating that or replacing that human with technology. But I'm sure it freed up those people to go do more interesting work rather than just being opening, closing an elevator door and taking people up and down all day long. Yeah, I think there's going to be an uncomfortable a few years here where the people that are being threatened, and this will be more and more of us as AI and machine learning starts to get better things. And we're all going to sort of lash back and try to defend our jobs. But I don't think we can all have a union that forces everybody to use humans if the machines can help us. And again, I don't know, do we all go on vacation and get universal base income? Or do we all, you know, find other things to do? Yeah. And I don't know if I mentioned this before, but if people ask me, you know, how should I learn more about AI and all those images are cool? And I think it all depends on what your specialty is. So don't just go learn about mid-journey because you heard that AI is the new thing unless you're into creating imagery, or that's a personal interest or professional interest. But I think the best place that all of us can be is to learn about AI and the cross roads of AI and what you know as a professional, as an expertise, because AI doesn't understand the expertise. So we had this happen with a voiceover artist. So we can just type in and have AI create a voiceover. But there's a lot of inflections and different sounds that should happen at the end of a sentence or on a particular word to build trust or to make it sound like it's fun or make it sound like it's important. And the AI doesn't understand that. And the tools actually aren't good enough to direct it yet. But when they are good enough, the people who understand the inflections and why this inflection was used, whether that's a director or probably a voiceover artist themselves, that's going to be a good place for them to be. They should learn about AI voiceover work. Yes, it's replacing them. But if they can work and grow with it, they can be the content expert for that particular crossroads. They know what dials to twist. They know how to adapt and everything. And by the way, if they have a week where they're sick, they have a cold or something like that. Otherwise, they couldn't have worked before. Now, maybe they will be able to work through something like that. If it's Arnold Schwarzenegger, then you're not allowed to use his voice unless you pay him the money for it. But if you're just the average unknown person who does the radio spot and you don't have a well-known voice that's locked down, then you need to learn, use it as a tool. It's a fascinating time to be following all this stuff that's happening. I want to wrap up with a question that I love to ask. I love to ask people about really others who they admire and respect who really help them along in their journey during their career. When I ask about that, I love to ask about particularly peers and contemporaries, and I know that you've been involved in EO, Entrepreneurs Organization, which is how we connected. Sometimes people will default and they'll just mention their family or friends or teammates. But I especially love to hear about those kind of unacknowledged peers, contemporary friends, other entrepreneurs out there, other business owners who've helped you in ways large and small. Anyone who comes to mind when I describe that for you? Well, EO in general has been amazing. I've been a member here in New York for about five years on the board and just drinking the Kool-Aid. Everybody's constantly helping each other, and even though they're not in the same business as I am, there's so many parts of business that are similar in the same. We all have profit loss statements and the concept of marketing and HR. I've been bumping up, trying to grow my business for decades, really, and learning from different business programs. Then I joined EO, and then people started talking about traction and EOS and these operating systems, entrepreneurial operating system, which again is back to that corporate structure that I kept thinking was so evil. And the folks at EO were always so open about and talking about and saying, "Why don't you come to one of my meetings? You can see how this is done and I'm thinking these people must really be onto something." And so I think the organization has been amazing to me and to help to grow the business, to scale the business, to make the business scalable and understanding SOPs. I wish I could tell you more on the creative side who that would be. It's the first thing I ever saw that really clicked for me was the Pixar Lamp, the Luxo Junior that hops along. I saw that as the original. So maybe John Lasseter probably was part of that. I never had him particularly as a hero, but I saw that geometry and math and engineering could be applied and make pictures and tell stories. And that was just the cross-section that I wanted to be. And my mother bought me a book about visual effects and movies. And she was like, "You can do anything you want." So I got to give a lot of credit to my mom, but just got lucky. And my parents were tremendously influential in sort of saying, "More the technical, more the creative." And I was like, "I'm going to figure out how to make these work." So yeah. Lucian, this is great. Where can people go to learn more about you and mechanism digital? Great. Mechanismdigital.com. That's our website. I'm also fairly active on LinkedIn, Lucian Harriot. I often do a lot of AI concepts and talks and articles, but come check us out and let's learn together. Excellent. Thanks so much. Thank you, John. Thanks for listening to the smart business revolution podcast. We'll see you again next time, and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.
