Spirit in Action

Sex & Sexuality, Part 2

More insights & music from Peter Alsop on sex, sex roles, sexuality, & relationships, using humor and creativity to shine a light on our society's too-little-examined wounds, presumptions, and possibilities of health & balance.

Duration:: 55m
Broadcast on:: 17 Jan 2016
Audio Format:: other

[music] ♪ Let us sing this song for the healing of the world ♪ ♪ That we may hear as one ♪ ♪ With every voice of every song ♪ ♪ We will move this world along ♪ ♪ And our lives will feel the echo of our healing ♪ ♪ With every voice of every song ♪ Welcome to Spirit in Action. My name is Mark Helpsmeak. Each week, I'll be bringing you stories of people living lives of fruitful service, of peace, community, compassion, creative action, and progressive efforts. I'll be tracing the spiritual roots that support and nourish them in their service, hoping to inspire and encourage you to sink deep roots and produce sacred food in your own life. ♪ Let us sing this song for the dreaming of the world ♪ ♪ That we may dream as one ♪ ♪ With every voice of every song ♪ ♪ We will move this world along ♪ Today for Spirit in Action, we get to welcome back Peter Alsop to share more of his thoughts and music about sex, sex roles, sexuality, and related topics. He started us off last week with five songs and lots of insights. Peter is an educational psychologist and a folk musician of long-standing with wealth recordings for adults and even more targeting the youth audience. He is spoken and performed widely with educational professionals across the country, as well as for any group across the spectrum with a taste for captivating tunes and great lyrics, especially featuring humor that gets to the core of things without needing to beat us over the head with speechifying. I've had Peter on both my Song of the Soul and Spirit in Action programs before. Yes, I'm a fan. And the impetus for this visit was a recent benefit concert based on Peter's songs performed by a variety of musicians. You can get the full to our video of Alsop for Adults via his website, PeterAlsop.com. Right now, Peter Alsop joins us again by phone from his home in California. Peter, welcome back this week for Spirit in Action. Hi, Mark, good to be here. So, we had a lot of fun, or maybe I shouldn't call it fun. That's a word that has connotations for some people. When you're talking about deep things, it's deeply nourishing to me, but fun isn't the word that a lot of people use to describe it. But it was, for me, a rich opportunity to talk to you about your songs, sex, sex roles, sexuality. One thing that I'm aware of is so much of your past, what, 25, 30 years, really, has been working with either kids or with adults working with kids. And sex is such a taboo subject in our country. Somehow, you seem to have been a success at this. Do you want to hand out to the whole world listening, your secret for how you were able to talk about such things in a way that wasn't too invasive, scary, frightening, didn't touch people's buttons too much? As I mentioned the last segment that we did last week, it's only a wee wee, so what's the big deal? It seems like it should be a kid's song about gender, but it really is for adults in that, you know, I can sing it for kids, or I can sing it for adults. But when there's kids in an audience of adults, because I did a lot of conferencing where I get grown-ups, and then someone would bring their kid because Peter Russell was going to be speaking there. And I do it's only a wee wee, so what's the big deal? Well, maybe the parents are a little uncomfortable, and some of the other grown-ups nearby, if there's a kid there and they're singing, it's only a wee wee, so what's the big deal? And are we supposed to be singing this? And then the kids are going, "I'm not supposed to say that outside, and all these grown-ups are singing it." So it makes people uncomfortable. And so I don't do that songs in certain settings. So part of this is knowing your audience. Part of being able to deal with loaded subjects, whether it's about death, whether it's about chemical dependency, like smoking or sex, which, again, is a loaded issue. And people bring all sorts of their own issues and understandings and stories about where you do this and where you don't do it, and when it's appropriate, when it's not appropriate to the room. And you've got an audience full of a bunch of these different stories, so how do you be careful about that? So I also have to decide how I'm going to do something and what my agenda is. I spent a lot of time at the feminist men's movement. We've been doing that for 40 years, like I have been with my -- all of my first album came out in 1975, so I've been doing this quite a while. And I have a song called "hopelessly heterosexual," which I wrote, and I hadn't spent much time around the feminist men's gatherings. So I went to the -- I guess it was the fifth annual, and there were 20, or more than that, 30-40, and it's been a long, long time. And I went and I played my stuff, and I said, "Look, I haven't had any feedback on this, and there's probably at least 50% of the men were gay in the audience." And so I did this on called "hopelessly heterosexual." And I had a workshop, so please come to the workshop and tell me if I'm stepping on any toes here, because I just don't pretend to know everything about all of this stuff. I could use some input. And I got some great input. You know, there's one of the lines that I'll stay locked in the closet if you're not my opposite, which is one of the things about being hopelessly heterosexual. And it's a funny line and a funny concept, but it's not funny if you're a gay man and had to spend some very painful time in the closet when you couldn't be who you were. You couldn't talk to anybody. You didn't have any support from your family or any of your friends with the culture at large. It's really painful, and it wasn't funny or humorous to them to see a straight man sort of throwing that around in a funny song that was being playful with it in that way. You know, you've talked about what we started about to work fun. And so I said, "You know what? There's a whole lot of words out there. I don't need to use that phrase. Let's figure out another way to do it." It's one I love. Let's start off with Peter Alsop's song "hopelessly heterosexual." Listen, you're one of my oldest and dearest friends, but you have to understand, and you see that, well... I'm hopelessly heterosexual. I guess I'm kind of slow. The mom and dad, or all I have, that's the only way I know. So I'm hopelessly heterosexual. I'm stuck with being straight. It's a man to man I'll ask you not to ask me for a date. When I'm with you, I'm happy. When you're with me, you're gay. I love you like a brother, but not the other way. Now I'm not scared to try it, but it's not my cup of tea. I never even thought of it 'til you brought it up to me. And now that I consider it, I'd rather stay repressed. 'Cause I don't feel excited at the thought of you undressed. I'm hopelessly heterosexual. You know I'm not a tease. I'm a product of society, so don't be angry, please. I'm hopelessly heterosexual, and I hate to be a for. But I'd rather watch the Super Bowl and sit here and explore. I'm flattered that you asked me, but that's the way it has to be. Cupid's kind of stupid. He hit you and he missed me. But since we're on the subject, and you know where I stand, what exactly do you do? I guess use your hand. I mean, do you, how does, what if, where will, from behind? Oh well, I just, you know it was. Never mind, I'm hopelessly heterosexual, and I don't mean to open. So don't hold it against me, and I'll be your best friend. No, don't hold it against me, and please be my best friend. You still bar your car to me? Hopelessly heterosexual by Peter Alsop. What a great way to talk about such issues. I really love humor, like humor, humor that is not oppressive, that doesn't have a victim as a way of talking about things. And when I laugh at myself, that's the times where I am most enabled to take steps forward, and I think you help people do that with your music, Peter. What I did is, and I answered your question before we did the song, which is about how do you have one deal with some of these loaded issues, and so how do you use humor? Two things, one that you pointed out, there's no victim in the song, number one. And number two, I try to look at the human stuff that goes on and this stuff. And then this, it's the curiosity of a straight man who's kind of afraid of this stuff, but also very curious about what is it you actually do, you know, kind of thing. And so I worked that into the song, so there's some humanness and understandable about the curiosity, but I still like to be your friend, you know, and can I still bar your car tomorrow? And it normalizes a friendship that a lot of people, well, I'm not going to be around those people. I mean, it still blows me away. I just had a friend of mine who I just met, and I liked them a lot. We went to the store to buy something together. And the salesman was obviously out and gay, and he just was just, you know, just bright socks on. I love it. I mean, the word gay comes from a playfulness, and I'm always looking for playmates, you know, and I don't necessarily mean sexual playmates. You know, I'm talking about just the checkout stand at the grocery store. If you play with the person, you'd be silly with them. And some people are really in a place where they're willing to be playful, and other people that don't get it, and they go, okay, and they just pay my groceries and leave. You know, so I was just surprised because this new friend of mine was so upset. He couldn't even shake hands with this salesman who was delightful, frankly. Maybe we should follow this up with you. You ain't been doing nothing if they haven't called you gay. Let's do that one. I think that would be a good song to play after this. One day in school, a friend of mine sat all alone and cried. When I asked him what was wrong, he said his grandmother had died. He apologized for crying, and I said that it's okay, but when I put my arm around him, all the fellas called me gay. Well, you ain't been doing nothing if they haven't called you gay. If you show a sign of caring, then you know it's what they'll say, so you might as well ignore it, or decide that it's okay 'cause you ain't been doing nothing if they haven't called you gay. One day I saw my uncles looking at a magazine. There were naked women whips and chains and things I'd never seen. They said, "What you think of this one, boy?" I said, "I think it's sick." They said, "Boy, you must be gay if you don't want a poker check." Well, you ain't been doing nothing if they haven't called you gay. If you show a sign of decency, you know it's what they'll say, so you might as well ignore it, or decide that it's okay 'cause you ain't been doing nothing if they haven't called you gay. Then I went to college, and I studied modern dance. I went down to the gym with my tights beneath my pants, as I was working out. Some jock would whisper loud and clear, but the dancer loves his locker room for a man because he's queer. Well, you ain't been doing nothing. If you ain't been called a queer, you try out something new, well, you know it's what you'll hear, so you might as well ignore it. Your answer with a cheer 'cause you ain't been doing nothing if you ain't been called a queer. I like to work with kids and help them grow up strong and free, but when I became a daycare teacher, people said to me, "Can't you make the boys be tough and make the girls be cute? Can't you get a real match job? What's the matter? You're a fruit!" "Well, you ain't been doing nothing. If you ain't been called a fruit, if you work for sexual freedom, then you know they'll start to hoop. Just remember there's a hurting kid inside each cheering group, and you ain't been doing nothing if you ain't been called a fruit." Well, singing isn't my show, as everybody knows, unless it's country Western or you're wearing chain-link clothes, but if it's folk or opera or style they don't know, you can bet your yo-de-lay. You'll be called a homo. Well, you ain't been doing nothing. If you ain't been called a homo, it's been said about a lot of folks from Bronx to Paris, como, so you might as well ignore it or use it for your promo 'cause you ain't been doing nothing if you ain't been called a homo. Now I wonder why the things I do bring ridicule to me from rigid frighten people in a land that's brave and free as for me to be a real man. Means give up fear and hate to sing along with arms around our brothers gay and straight. That ain't been doing nothing if they haven't called you gay. If you work for gender justice then you know it's what they'll say, so you might as well ignore it or decide that it's okay 'cause you ain't been doing nothing if they haven't called you. Different pansy, friendly, faggot, very weird and wimp. Sissy, strange and sick and when they say your wrist is limp, just give a big smile and let 'em hear you say that you ain't been doing nothing if they haven't called you gay. Another gem from Peter Alsop, you ain't been doing nothing if they haven't called you gay. Again, the thing about humor, Peter, it's disarming for many of us, although I have to say that people have been wounded and a song that touches on those issues where the wounding happens or people who are on crusades, which many times that's been me, we're not famous for our senses of humor. I've tried to develop myself to see the humor and all of it. But again, humor I think is so much more helpful. Comedians get much further along whether it's a Lenny Bruce or whomever. They get much further with humor than just by giving a sermon. Are you tempted to give sermons? Someone else would have to label what I do a sermon and there'd be certain parts. Again, remember we talked about verbs last week and about how the verbs are important because they help clarify situations in ways that labels like that's a sermon. There may be parts of what I do that people feel are sermon-ish. Oh, I just wanted to bring up that that song was written by Ted Judd. It was more of a folk song. And I did the regular version with a couple verses, so that's why it's sort of my song too. Not a lot of people do that one, as you might imagine. It also is based on an old song called "You Ain't Been Doing Nothing If You Ain't Been Called a Red," which means for communist, and it's about taking action and doing something that's important to move the world forward. And people use epithets to label someone and dismiss them as opposed to looking at their behaviors and trying to say, "Oh, I see why they're doing that. That's a really neat thing." And so your question about sermons and feeling fired up about stuff is really important because it's the feeling. It's how one does what one does. Again, with the labels thing, if you ask my audience sometimes, "I bet some of you out there are Christians. They don't worry. You don't have to stand up. We know who you are. We'll find out in a minute." I said, "But raise your hand if you're a Christian, and you've ever seen another Christian coming your way and you wanted to leave as soon as possible." And people start laughing. I said, "Because it's not about the label. It's about how they do their Christianity." They come in and they just want to point out what you're doing wrong or what you ought to be doing differently and how wonderful they are. And it's not really about you or who you are in any way that's helpful and supportive, otherwise you'd want to be around that person. So verbs really help us figure out some of the difficult reactions we have to the world around us. So yeah, I think I try not to do a sermon. You won't hear me say "should" than anybody should do anything because I don't know what people should do. All I do when I do my presentations is I sing songs where I lay things out into some various sports and people can say, "I've had more than one parent come up and say, 'I don't know.' I was listening to that song and I was going, 'Geez, I do that, don't I? Maybe I ought to cut that out with my kid.'" So it's about how do you model stuff and put stuff out so people have some options. One of the options I'd like to pursue is getting a lot more of your music in this session. Again, sexuality, sex roles are all topics we're talking about and we just talked about names, labeling. And one of the things I want to talk with you about is how language, how we think about things, gives them power or shuts us down. Again, you said that we're giving our power away when we have that, but often our language is how we get to a place. So there's one of your songs. It's called "A Good Time" that for a lot of people that sounds like, "Okay, well, that could be a pretty positive thing." But what led you to write this song and why did you think it was so important to convey? Because it certainly is important from my point of view. It conveys some of my own experience. A good thing came from a lot of different things, Mark Galli. When you're hanging out with your buddies, when you're 13 or 14, and you're having a really good time, and all of a sudden one of a girl comes over and one of your buddies just takes off, and dumps you. Well, I thought you were here. Now I'm going to go see Darlene's over there, whatever, Charlotte, whoever. And it's like, "Geez, what's going on here?" So when you go out as a young man, what you want to do is score. You would like to really have sex with somebody or be able to touch them in one of their private places, because that's what you really want to do, and you're going to try and convince them to let you do that. I mean, there's been so many stories and so many relationships that have been based on that, and so many feelings of rejection and anger and revenge and ownership and all the other stuff that goes with the romantic dance that we do in our culture. And I think ours has done another version of another culture, certainly. It's about, "Let's go have a good time." We're just going to have a good time, you know? And that's what this song is about. So I'm going to go out to have a good time, and no matter what happens, even though he might have achieved his executive, he's still wondering why he feels so lonely. ♪ I see that you're alone ♪ ♪ You look like someone I once knew ♪ ♪ I'm just a little drunk, but do you mind ♪ ♪ I hope I haven't blown ♪ ♪ My chance is here with you ♪ ♪ What I'm about to say sounds like a line ♪ ♪ Well, I made it this far ♪ ♪ I came out to have a good time ♪ ♪ And here you are ♪ ♪ I came out to have a good time ♪ ♪ And would you like to share a glass of wine ♪ ♪ 'Cause I'm alone in here ♪ ♪ And I came out ♪ ♪ To have a good time ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ This elevator goes so slow ♪ ♪ When you look at me that way ♪ ♪ Well, I'll ride up and see you to your door ♪ ♪ First you tell me no ♪ ♪ Then your husband's gone, you say ♪ ♪ Sure you slip into something else ♪ ♪ I can't think anymore ♪ ♪ When I've made it this far ♪ ♪ I came out to have a good time ♪ ♪ And here you are ♪ ♪ I came out to have a good time ♪ ♪ And even though the evening's going fine ♪ ♪ I'm alone in here ♪ ♪ And I came out ♪ ♪ To have a good time ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ I'm sorry if I hurt you ♪ ♪ Got your kiss like silk and velvet ♪ ♪ I'm dizzy and so light that I could fly ♪ ♪ You're really good, you know ♪ ♪ But I guess I better go ♪ ♪ Well, I don't know why it is ♪ ♪ Sometimes I cry ♪ ♪ When I've made it this far ♪ ♪ I came out to have a good time ♪ ♪ And here you are ♪ ♪ I came out to have a good time ♪ ♪ And even though your body's holding mine ♪ ♪ I'm alone in here ♪ ♪ And I came out ♪ ♪ Just to have a good time ♪ ♪ I came out ♪ ♪ To have a good time ♪ Good time by Peter Alsop. A very powerful song. I sense that that's a song, Peter, that's intended for men to hear. I don't know if women or, you know, 90% of women or whatever would find that particularly meaningful. It might be alien to the way their homerooms work or something. You know, of course, I can't speak about their experience. But I can say as a man, I recognize that as something I went through. Fortunately, I'm 61 now, so I'm not so much torn apart by those hormones and inner conflicts. Did you actually have to go through that phase in your life? Certainly. I mean, I think all of us do. At this point, I really go, "Why isn't this working for me anymore?" And, you know, it'd be interesting because you mentioned earlier when you were talking about spirit and action and how you like to get not only donations, which I hope folks out there will open their purses and help support what you're doing, but also, you like to hear from people. So, you know, we could throw out a call and say, "Are there any women out there listening?" They couldn't drop me a note or an email, not me, you, so you can hear about it. And I would love to hear what they said if you get some mail. But, you know, what happens? How did that song affect you? They said, "Did you go out for a good time to find out that it's hollow?" Or do you find out that you're with a man who was just looking for a good time and how do you deal with that? Are you tired of it? Are you, "How does that work?" Or, you know, I mean, I haven't done any research with women on that. I wrote it in 1975 and I haven't played it lots because I found that what happened more than anything else was that my kids' songs were just making people, people were turning out in droves to see my kids' shows with their kids and laughing because there's a lot of sort of covert parenting information in my kids' songs. And they're not all about sex or, you know, it's about a whole range of different kind of human behaviors. So I haven't played that song quite a while. It is on my new also for adults' concert that's downloadable for, like, 10 bucks or something like that from my website. But I haven't played it in a long time. And so I haven't had a lot of feedback from women about that. It's a good question, I think. And what I'm hoping we're doing today for spirit and action is talking about a road to healthy sexuality and one of the reasons that I love that song is that it shows some introspection by the man to recognize the wounded parts in him. Like when he says, "I don't know why it is, sometimes I cry," that when we see our hurts and how we react to them, then we've got a chance of choosing a better way of being and acting. I think that song, just for a man to hear it, holds the promise of healing and healthier sexuality, thereby reducing the chances of passing on the hurt through unconscious sexual acting out. And I'm going to take over here and throw in one of Peter's songs that I think is so poignant, sad and powerful. A call for more personal consciousness and communication and attention to how we wound each other and are wounded. It's called ghosts. Slowly, slowly, I lifted my head. And you said that I could not stay. Line shined where your tears had run. All my magic was gone and the words wouldn't come. There was nothing more I could say. So goodbye. I won't burn you anymore. You cry when I say I still love you. So goodbye. I've been with someone else you know. I love without change, doesn't grow goodbye. I left you there in the home and ran to my bed where I lay and cried that our life had gone wrong. For you'd finally say what I've known all alone, but I've been each Sunday. You left me alone, going somewhere, too, too far away. So goodbye. You can't burn me anymore. You were too afraid to try. I love you so goodbye. A love like mine would only scare away a ghost who wasn't really there. So goodbye. [Music] Wind whispers flow through the empty house. Dust swirls from under the door. That day when I left you I wanted to stay. That day when you left me I wish you had stayed, but it's gone. Drift it away and only the ghost of yesterday. Eyes forever, eyes forever, eyes forever. [Music] [Music] That was "Ghost" by Peter Alsop. My guest today for spirit and action. I decided to include it today because I think when we face our wounding and wounds, we get clues about the way to healthier sexuality and relationships. As I've said to you before, Peter, you have such a gift for taking on big issues and touchy subjects in a way that can be heard beyond our limited thinking, a talent I really admire. You know what that brings up for me is maybe we ought to play a couple of the songs that have to do with people that have what I call out of balance of sexuality. There's a couple of them. There's one called "Man-O-Man-O-Man-O-Man-O-Man-O-Man-O-Man-O-Man-O-Man-O-Man-O-Man-O-Man-O-Man-O-Man-O-Man-O-Man-O-Man-O-Man-O-Man-O-Man-O-Man-O-Man." Maybe you could play them back to back and give people a real dose of this. What do you think? I think that's a great idea. Except that I'm going to go in with one disclaimer, Peter. There's no way I would call them bad jokes in "Man-O-Man." As we all know, a pun is the highest form of humor in the world. I think so too. It's one of the reasons I love you, Peter. So here it is, two of Peter's songs, prepared to have your boundary stretched a little bit with "Man-O-Man" and "My Secret." As a window dresser at Macy's, my future held nothing in store. Until that day in the warehouse, when I spotted you there on the floor. Oh, I knew when I saw you that you were the one, but you needed some parts for your arm. So I gave you a hand, but your blouse came undone. I still feel shivers from all of your slivers. Though you're rough with me, baby, that's part of your charm. Man-O-Man, I love you, man-O-Man, I can. Anyway, I can love you all day. It's not right the way I love you, man-O-Man, I can. Our love is not holy, wouldn't you say? Well, I know that you're bald, but I don't care at all. 'Cause I know how self-conscious you are. And you always have a smile for me when I call. I love kissing your lips, while they're missing some chips. I'm banging around in the trunk of my car. That blonde hair on my collar, you know that you found. Well, she's just a dummy I knew long ago. Now you're mad I can tell 'cause you won't make a sound. Must I tap little rhythms on you with my thumb? Ha ha ha, mom always said you'd make a good drum. Your eternal beauty will never run down. I won't let you warp or decay. When you're old, if you get bored, you can lumber around in my yard where the woodpeckers stay. They'll build nests in your head and keep termites away. Man oh man I love you man oh man I can. Anyway I can love you all day. It's not right the way I love you man oh man I can. Our love is not holy, wouldn't you say? [Applause] This is a song that's based on the premise that we are all equally sexually bizarre. Okay, and it's a sing along. It's called My Secret. I've got a secret, how about you? Let's tell each other what we do. I've got a secret, how about you? Let's give it a try. I've got a secret, how about you? Good. Let's tell each other what we do. Very normal. I've got a secret, how about you? Well Friday night I'm feeling right cause I get paid. Right back to my little room and I pull a shade. Off with pants and quickly on with that dress I made. Wig in place I paint my face and my arms with marmalade. Nobody knows my secret, nobody shares in my fun. I walk around in my night lawns cause I don't want them to run. Everyone hides some secret thing they've done. So if you're strange don't make a change. Spread your jam and hug your lamb and let your vibrator hum. Come on. I've got a secret, how about you? Let's tell each other what we do. I've got a secret, how about you? Now all week long I drive a truck, I'm kind of shy. But I replay Boy magazine like a normal guy. And I love eating my mom's homemade apple pie. But she don't know her marmalade goes in the panty hose I buy. Nobody knows my secret, nobody shares in my fun. I spread jelly on my belly, I spread it on my buns. I'll tell you if you'll tell me. Do you get hot with your bathroom locked while I cool my nerves with mom's preserves? It's just a difference of degree. I've got a secret, how about you? Let's tell each other what we do. I've got a secret, how about you? Thank you, thank you very much. Good night. Peter Alsop. Two wonderful songs by Peter Alsop. My secret, and before that you heard Man-O-Man. And that's back when Peter Alsop was wild and woolly and got played on Dr. Demento a lot. I wonder why. I wonder why. But my guest is Peter Alsop here today for spirit and action. We had him here last week as well. We're talking about sex, sexual, sexuality, healthy sexuality, unhealthy sexuality. Maybe that's how some people would like to label what we just heard. But I think it's so important to have the conversation and that's why I have Peter here today for spirit and action. A Nord and spirit radio production on the web, Nord and spirit radio.org, ten and a half years of our programs are there for free listening and download. There's a place for comments and, again, two-way communications where it's at as far as I'm concerned. So please comment when you visit our site, a place for donations. It always helps. That's how we get through this year. Myself and my assistant, that's what's going to pay our salary for this year. And more important than that, though, is to support your local community radio stations in valuable sources of alternative news and music. If we want to have it on the air here, we have to support it. So start with your donations of your hands and from your wallet. Peter Alsop is here. His website, PeterAlsop.com. There's a wealth of music for adults and for children there. And I also want to encourage you to check out Alsop for adults. That's on Vimeo. You'll find a link from Peter's site. And it's two hours of a number of different people doing Peter's music. And it's all these songs that we're playing last week and this week and much more. It's really a wonderful source of information. It's so wonderful to see it coming out of other people's mouths. Although I have to say, Peter, you could teach a few of them. You might want to work with them a little bit more on getting this songs right. I think the buddies was the one that I noticed was the furthest off. Well, I mean, they were in tune and stuff, but it was just people want to do it their own way. And sometimes they say, "Well, I don't think I want to do the bridge in there." And of course, I wrote the song in performance. So I like hearing it the way that I did it, but it's fine. That's part of the folk tradition. You're passing on and people make it their own and however they do it. And there are some people that just needed to read that they hadn't memorized it in different songs. But mostly it was just delightfully funny and relaxed evening. There was nobody passing judgment on anyone about any of the stuff. There were a lot of laughter and some tears and some of my poems that have never published it or what people were doing as well. So the last two songs we were talking about, you called it unhealthy. And I was thinking about that because, you know, health is like, I feel comfortable labeling things for myself. Like I can say, you know, that feels unhealthy to me. And the other word that I prefer to use, but it's the same kind of thing, I guess, is it feels out of balance to me. The last two songs I mentioned that I've played good times we did "Man on Man I Can" about a guy that falls in love with a mannequin, which I think is a little out of balance. And, you know, it's a humorous concept. And yet it's still bittersweet and sad that someone's so unable to deal with a real live woman that they have to go out with a mannequin. Because they can't feel like they're out of control and all sorts of the kind of things that you chuckle, but it's also sad at the same time because there's some truth in it. That there's men who feel that way, that they don't understand women and they don't get it, but they're still attracted to them. But they want them to just, you know, being, well, my mom used to do that. You know, how come nobody, everybody's all being feminist today. You know, I said, there is something funny, but it's also real tiresome to have be labeled and dismissed as a feminist and laughed at. You know, there's a reason for that. And how do I put myself in someone else's shoes? And the way that we do that is by having, I mentioned having a feelings vocabulary. I mean, you know, if I know what happy, sad, scared, and angry are, and I can exercise them in some way that I'm not putting them on other people. I'm not just angry and blowing up and out of balance. I just know when I'm angry and I look around and say, I'm feeling really angry because I want to cross one of my boundaries. I need to take a look. I used to do that when I first started, I had a very controlling dad, so we didn't get to practice our emotions much. My dad was the one that got to do the anger in our family. And so as I got older and I started trying to relearn some of this stuff that I didn't get as a kid and didn't get the ability to do that or the permission, I would go, I'm really angry. I guess my wife crossed one of my boundaries and I'd look and she hadn't. She just wasn't doing what I wanted her to do. Is that crossing one of my boundaries? No, I'm just angry. It's like a little kid. I'm not getting my way. I'm angry. They went, okay, so this isn't her stuff. This is my stuff. And so learning about doing that means that now anger can come up and I can feel that and look around and I know what's appropriate, how to manage it in some way so that I'm not just flying off the handle with my anger. And it's not too huge for me. It feels okay. If I tell somebody three or four times when you do that, I feel angry and they keep doing, I have some new information. They don't seem to care how I feel. And I need to decide whether I want to be in relationship with this person. They don't care. So when I have a healthy feelings vocabulary, I can be in the shoes of somebody else like that feminist person or a person who's doing something. What are they doing that's making them a feminist? I'm much more interested in the verbs why someone's calling them a feminist. If it's to dismiss them because they don't like what they're doing, it's one thing, which is often what happens. Or if it's you're doing something to be helpful for kids and families and people and have a more caring world, then why would I want to make fun of them and dismiss them with a label? I want to join them. And it's the same thing with this out of balance ways that men deal with women sometimes in the last two songs. Man, oh man, I can't worry. I prefer an inanimate object to a real living and breathing woman and all of the growth that's going to need to happen if you're going to have a relationship with someone who's a self-actualizing woman. And my secret, which is men stay and rub jam on their bodies and sort of are in closet cross dressers and trying to figure out what's going on with that. I mean, the songs are humorous because of a lot of the word play, but it's also there's a sadness involved with it. And it comes out of some of the severe abuse that happens. There's one out of three young women sexually abused in this country by the time they're 18, and there's a lot of incest. And I had somebody ask me if I would do a song about incest, and it's not a funny song. And I did it. I knew it was really powerful. And I played at one time at a college conference, and you could hear a pin drop in the room, and I sort of went, oh crap, what do I play now? I didn't have anything to bring them out of the place they took them because it was such a powerful place. And I wrote a song called "Love is the Only Medicine" that I always do after I play "Look at the Ceiling." Yeah, before I play them, I just wanted to comment, I don't remember if this was in concert when I heard you in Milwaukee 30 plus years ago, or if I'm filling this in from my pure imagination. But I believe that "Look at the Ceiling" came from actually writings of children who had been through abuse, and it was, you took phrases from their writings, is that correct? I was working with a group called PACT, which stands for Protecting and Caring Together, that were trying to keep families together after the abuser got some treatment. Because what happens is the whole family gets blown apart, and then the victim feels like victimized again, because she generally is older male, younger, female. She doesn't have the mother blames the kids for blowing the family apart and telling them the dad. And also, just stuff can happen that revictimizes the victim. And so this group was trying to keep people together, and they asked me if I'd write something and bring that stuff up. So I read some of the letters, absolutely, that they were getting, and some of the stories that they told me about people they were working with in actual real cases. And that informed a lot of my writing and the song. Yeah. And if I recall correctly, again, I'm not sure if this was you. Again, this is 30 plus years ago in the past. But I seem to recall that one of the greatest successes they had in helping men deal with their sexuality that's out of balance is assertiveness training. Sure. If you don't know how to speak up for yourself and set boundaries and say, "Honey, when you then I feel, if you don't know how to do that," it's like, what's the point of bringing this up? She's not going to listen. Who cares? I'm not happy with what's going on in a relationship with my wife isn't doing what she's supposed to do. So I need to go somewhere else. I've got all this testosterone happening, and look at my stepdaughter here. God, she's taking showers in front of me, and I know she really wants me to have sexual therapy, so I just have to be assertive. And that's not assertive. That's about being selfish. If you learn how to be assertive instead of aggressive, you know how to speak up for yourself and talk about some of the kind of things that are going on. That are upsetting, and you need to have a safe place to go for that. A lot of men do not know how to find a safe place. A lot of times our friends, and it's so changed in the last 40 years that so many younger men and people are aged too as well. I mean, our dads didn't hug a lot of times because you weren't supposed to touch another guy like that, you know? And a lot of us hug, and we show up, and it's so much healthier, and we're also in a rarefied condition. There's still lots of people that don't do that, that are still homophobic, and don't touch each other much. It's still going on, and there's still, you know, unfortunately we've had some more evil rights kind of things happen for gay people, which is delicious and surprising. But it's also we're in a rarefied atmosphere here in the states where you look at the rest of the world, and there's still women are still much more than second-class citizens who are way shut down. Little kids and gays can still be countries in Africa where you're cropping gays to capital punishment. So we still have a long way to go, and the way that happens is by us being more caring human beings instead of being brutish by shutting down our feelings and showing up for people because we have a good feeling, healthy feelings, vocabulary ourselves. And we can know what that feels like, and we can put ourselves in this victim's shoes, we're much less likely to victimize someone, and much more likely to be a safe place. There's so much more we could talk about, Peter, but we're going to get to those two songs directly. Again, I want to thank you for the pioneering work, from my point of view that you did, a sleep at the helm, and uniforms, and all the ways with all of your music in the past 30 years, if you're written for kids, and for adults, your albums like Disciples of Perfection, River of Life, and Growing at Home is the new one that you did for kids a couple years ago. The entire span of it has helped us make better choices, look at things better more clearly, and these two songs will. And the first one, again, being painful, the second one being less so. Again, I want to encourage people to go out to peteralsop.com and download and buy, download your video of Alsop for Adults. It's quite a gem, folks, but right now we're going to end with a look at the ceiling. I love the ceiling medicine. Peter, again, it's so great to have your music, and just to have you. You're such a treasure to get to know. Thanks, Mark. I appreciate it. And we'll do this again sometime. Thanks to Andrew Janssen for Production Assistance today. We end with Peter Alsop's songs, "Look at the Ceiling, and Love is the Only Medicine." And we'll see you next week for "Spirit in Action." Look at the ceiling, the shadows are bare. I wonder what's on the TV. And daddy's hands rub me all over I wonder. Two leaves in the creek find their way to the sea. My mesh is potatoes and pores in the milk. Silently smoke cigarettes. I wish she would hug me or look at me even. I'd trade my allowance for that. Billy plays tag with me all the way home after school. Boy, he's really a brat. But we didn't do nothing, and it's not fair for Dad. To make him go home just like that. Look at the ceiling, the shadows are bare. In hurricanes where the birds hide. And daddy's hands rub me all over I wonder. Where butterflies learn how to fly. The county fair once had a merry go round. I loved to watch mom and dad ride. We used to laugh and they used to hold hands. And neither of them used to cry. When the spider scared little miss muffled away. How did she know where to run? Oh, I'd love to sleep in the bathtub all night. Wake up as clean as the sun. Look at the ceiling, the shadows are bare. Oh, I'd do bees die when they stink. And daddy's hands rub me all over I wonder. Where do balloons go when you cut the stream? When you hurt, you hide it away. You carry the pain where it rains every day. I'm lost so deep inside, where no one can see. When someone hurts you, you don't trust nobody you need love. It's the only medicine, love. Makes you feel better, my friend, yeah. It's the only medicine, love. Makes you feel better, my friend. We suffer abuse from someone we love. We stay even though we know push turns to shove. We hold on to long, sustain injury. No we should go, but sometimes we don't see we need love. It's the only medicine, love. Makes you feel better, my friend, yeah. It's the only medicine, love. Makes you feel better, my friend. When you hurt, you hide it away. It's the only medicine, love. Makes you feel better, my friend, yeah. It's the only medicine, only love can heal you. Only love, love. Love can heal you. If someone is me, we know right away. That one has a wound, yes. That one is in pain, that soul has a wall. They're crushing the heart. They pass on the hurt, and again it will start. They need love. It's the only medicine, love. Makes you feel better, my friend, yeah, love. It's the only medicine, love. Makes you feel better, my friend, yeah, love. It's the only medicine, love. Makes you feel better, my friend, yeah, love. It's the only medicine, love. It makes you feel better, my friend. The theme music for this program is "Turning of the World", performed by Sarah Thompson. This Spirit in Action program is an effort of Northern Spirit Radio. You can listen to our programs and find links and information about us and our guests on our website, northernspiritradio.org. Thank you for listening. I am your host, Mark Helpsmeet, and I welcome your comments and stories of those leading lives of spiritual fruit. May you find deep roots to support you and grow steadily toward the light. This is Spirit in Action. Every voice with every song. We will move this world alone. With every voice, with every song. We will move this world alone. And our lives will feel the echo of our healing. [MUSIC PLAYING]