Spirit in Action
Strength for the Stuggle
There are struggles continuing within our country on so many fronts, often invisible to those in power or even in comfortable conditions, but badly in need of a cadre of those to faithfully walk with the beleaguered and afflicted. Then there's this book...
- Duration:
- 55m
- Broadcast on:
- 05 Oct 2014
- Audio Format:
- other
[music] Let us sing this song for the healing of the world That we may hear as one With every voice, with every song We will move this world along And our lives will feel the echo of our healing [music] Welcome to Spirit in Action. My name is Mark Helpes Me. Each week, I'll be bringing you stories of people living lives of fruitful service, of peace, community, compassion, creative action, and progressive efforts. I'll be tracing the spiritual roots that support and nourish them in their service, hoping to inspire and encourage you to sink deep roots and produce sacred food in your own life. Let us sing this song for the dreaming of the world That we may dream as one With every voice, with every song We will move this world along For me and for my generation, I think that the foremost inspirational figures around peace and justice work Are Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. And the civil rights movement has a special mystique about it Because it's a movement that was actually successful in radically changing the face of the USA So I'm honored to have with me here today for Spirit in Action One of the persons on the forefront of the civil rights struggle in Birmingham and Selma But whose witness and work continued on into urban ministry And inner city transformation in the city where I used to live Milwaukee, Wisconsin Joseph L. Wanger is author of Strength for the Struggle Insights from the civil rights movement and urban ministry Having been vitally involved in efforts within the church and in the community To embrace equality and respect for women, gays and lesbians, immigrants Those who have been incarcerated as well as the races Joe modestly shares his ringside role and witness To a number of the most important struggles and advances of the last 50 years Joseph L. Wanger joins us by phone from Milwaukee, Wisconsin Joe, thank you so much for joining me for Spirit in Action It is my pleasure I had a rich experience reading Strength for the Struggle Insights from the Civil Rights Movement and Urban Ministry You are the son of a preacher Or maybe you're also a grandson of a preacher It's really in the family, isn't it? Well, I'm not about a grandson of a preacher But I am a son of a pastor And actually he was a second career pastor after being a teacher for about 10 years So it's not necessarily DNA It's a real deep sense of calling on the part of my father that he became a pastor My understanding is that you grew up in the south, is that true? Well, part of my growing up, the first 11 years were in St. Louis, Missouri And of course, that's considered southern by some folks in Missouri and St. Louis Certainly have a lot of southern characteristics, but it's not usually considered part of the south And then from age 12 on, I did go up in Selma, Alabama, 8th grade Through high school college and seminary, home was Selma Well, this is the second time that I've had you on my spirit and action program I met you back, I guess, 8 years ago You were up visiting Eau Claire, helping us start Jonah up here The congregational-based organizing tool that's connected with statewide, with wisdom And nationally, with familial So you do have an active role continuing with wisdom I am very active, as a volunteer, I am not a paid organizer as I was from 2002 to 2012 But still very active, and especially in what we call the 11 by 15 campaign Which is a campaign to bring down prison population in Wisconsin from 22,000 to 11,000 By the year 2015 for safer and healthier communities How is that campaign going? Are we actually seeing a reduction in the numbers yet? There was a dip in prison population from 22,000 to 21,000 And it's popped up a little bit We're close to 22,000 again, so the needle is not moving very quickly And we obviously are not going to make 11,000 by 2015 But we consider this goal a kind of prophetic vision of what ought to be And we won't stop working, and we do hope to bring it down a little bit more in the next year I don't want to be in politics here, but that goal, I'm sure, was set It may have been an ambitious goal, but I would imagine that you did not see it as completely unrealistic What has intervened to keep us from moving more clearly towards that goal as a state? Well, I would have to say that legislators and staff of the Department of Corrections Have been locked into a mentality of lock them up and throw away the key We've got to be tough on crime mentality for so long that it is just extremely difficult For most of those people who are in decision-making position To change their way of thinking, much less their way of acting But we are making some progress, especially in support for the treatment alternatives and diversionary program This is a law that was passed back in 2005, but there was only $1 million allocated in the state budget for the program And so it was really minimally implemented for six, seven years Finally, for this budget of 2014-2015, the legislature voted on a bipartisan basis To increase the CAD funding and the treatment alternatives and diversionary funding from $1 million to $4 million That's very encouraging because it means that legislators recognize the value of alternatives to incarceration And it's not terrible to help people get the treatment for addictions and mental health issues That they really need rather than send them to incarceration which will not answer their needs of itself This is very much apropos of some programs that I'm doing just recently About people who are doing some of those TAD, those treatments, alternatives, mental health court, et cetera Because we have some issues with funding of that right here in Chippewa Valley And things that are statewide have implications for our current courts So even though we've been leadership on this, funding is an issue in this upcoming election Absolutely, the mantra of the current legislators across the country these days Is not only do we not have the money to invest in such things as treatment alternatives And programs that would really benefit people in the system coming out of the system And keeping them from going into the system, not only do we not have the money But we need to cut back, we need to cut back, cut back, cut back Obviously, people don't see and don't recognize that we're really saving money In the long run, when we do treatment alternatives instead of simply thinking that we're going to incarcerate addiction And mental health issues out of people We can cover some of that, I do want to review a lot of what you included in your book Again, the book is strength of the struggle, insights from the civil rights movement And urban ministry by Joseph Elwanger, Joe is with us here today for spirit and action Joe, I was surprised in the book, you didn't start by talking about your experience down in the south Where you were at St. Paul Luther in church in Alabama I'm going to be a little bit more sequential than the book is because in the book You're talking about different foci, you're talking about different emphases of your ministry over the years And so you didn't start with your experience in Alabama, but I'd like you to start there I don't think you intended to be some kind of racial justice fire brand from the start How did you get led into this ministry which sees things much more widely about the mission of the church? Well, it really does begin not only with my ministry in Birmingham, but even before that My father was a pastor in St. Louis in storefront church And this was during the Depression, he was there from 1932 to 1944 And so growing up for the first 11 years of my life in a storefront church Among mainly white people living in poverty It was a way in which I began to see the world from down under rather than from above And so I've always had that interest and almost a natural desire to be involved with what I call today people at the edges Those who are financially not well off and all the other things that go with poverty But if you're asking how did I get to an African American congregation in Birmingham That was partly the result of my father being superintendent of the Alabama upper Florida field Of some 33 black congregate Lutheran congregations in central Alabama and southern Alabama And he was the vacancy pastor at St. Paul Lutheran in Birmingham The African American congregation there in southwest Birmingham And so when that congregation was without a pastor, needed a pastor The congregation voted to call a seminarian from the graduating class that was coming out And I happened to be in that graduating class of 200 from which the seminary committee that determines who gets what calls Looked at the 200 persons in the class And I was really the only one that had some experience, some knowledge and a great deal of interest in being in an African American congregation in the south And then from that setting of an African American congregation into being involved in justice issues as a pastor and as a congregation That is the result partly of history that the 1960s and 1963 specifically Was the time when the Southern Christian Leadership Conference especially and Martin Luther King were engaged in challenging segregation Not on economic basis so much as on the moral basis And on the scriptural basis that all human beings are created in the image of God and therefore justice Is something that people of faith and Christian specifically should be engaged in and should be involved with And so when the movement came to Birmingham in 1963 I did feel the nudge of the spirit to become engaged and then I became even more engaged When the voting rights movement was launched in Selma in January of 1965 There's one piece I wasn't quite sure about St. Paul, this Lutheran church in Birmingham You said is an African American parish Does that mean that it was all or almost all African American? When you as a white man standing in front was that a big color difference or how did that fit into the congregation? Well first of all it certainly was an African American congregation Which meant that every member of the congregation was African American except for its pastor That certainly was and still is a little bit unusual Of course we have some integrated congregations in the Midwest and the North and the East and the West and a few in the South Now but back in the 1950s and 1960s that was not the case So it was a bit unusual although the Lutheran church and the Roman Catholic church Did in a few instances have white priests and white pastors in black congregations So that was something that whites and blacks in the South were not accustomed to seeing Was something that was unusual for both groups to see and to accept But the interesting thing is that when a white pastor/white priest really is genuine and authentic in their walk with the people Blacks were much more willing and ready to accept a white pastor than any white congregation would ever be ready and willing to accept a black pastor And that says a great deal about the rigidity of white racism And it says a great deal about the ability of the black community over the years right up to the present To be more forgiving and more flexible in accepting whites than the reverse You point out several of the events that you were part of in Birmingham and Selma In one case I think it was the one white representative out of a group of 73 or 78 or so people marching Talk about that situation, how did that feel and how did you get included in that situation? The situation that you're referring to I'm sure is the march in Selma on Saturday March 6, 1965 And that really was 72 white Alabamians who marched on that Saturday morning And I was in the lead because I was president of the Birmingham Council on Human Relations Which was the organization that really sponsored and launched that march But I would have to add that the picture on the front of my book, Strength for the Struggle Is the picture of me from the backside facing three sheriff's deputies Right at the point that this march came to the county courthouse there in Selma On the corner of Lauderdale and Alabama Avenue, I know Selma, of course, almost like the back of my hand That march of 72 white Alabamians in solidarity with the voting rights movement in Selma Which had been all black and had started two months earlier Is unique in that to my knowledge it is the only march throughout the civil rights movement in the 50s and the 60s Of white southerners publicly marching to declare their solidarity with the civil rights movement And the rights of blacks to have in this case to have a vote and to be able to run for office It was after the Selma demonstrations and especially after the Bloody Sunday event Which was the very next day, March 7, that marches in the south became more integrated with more whites participating But almost always those were whites from other parts of the country, not white southerners So the significance of that march is that we wanted to show that there really were white southerners Who recognized and accepted African Americans as human beings who deserve equal rights like all the rest of us And we wanted to say that so it was clear that it wasn't a black versus white rivalry here But that it was something that affected both communities and that there were indeed whites who were ready to support blacks Who were of course the people marching and moving to gain their own rights You explain in the book as you tell these stories about the hierarchy of the church The church was not necessarily real clear in supporting you and maybe that's an understatement That the hierarchy had misgivings about it I'd like to talk a little bit about this Now again, you're working within the framework of the Lutheran Church and there's various branches to the Lutheran Church Which have morphed over the decades since then But is it completely clear in that St. Paul that the people at St. Paul Lutheran Church Your members there were completely supportive of your participation While the church hierarchy had its doubts, is that a fair statement? That is correct, the president of the district of the Lutheran Church that we were a part of The president in fact sent a telegram to the sheriff of Dallas County When the president heard that I was going to be leading this march in Selma He sent a telegram to the sheriff saying that the Lutheran Church does not endorse what Reverend L. Wanger is doing on this day That's quite typical of the white church leaders in all denominations that at that time Consider themselves moderates as they would describe themselves And definitely they would say we are not racist But their position that they took was that we favor dismantling segregation The segregated society and we favor voting rights for African Americans However, we do not agree with the methodology of Dr. King, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference Or in the case of the march that I led there on March 6 They would not agree with that, their position would be That the change should come about as the issue was brought through the courts By lawsuits and then if necessary decisions by the Supreme Court of the United States They simply could not accept nonviolent demonstrations as a method of bringing about change As an example of how deeply rooted this was across the denomination Dr. King makes a statement in his letter from Birmingham City Jail, a famous letter that is very relevant for today In fact, that letter was written to a dozen clergy across denominations in Birmingham Who had put an ad in the paper at the time of the Birmingham demonstrations Saying in effect that we agree with your attempts to get equality and fairness and justice But we do not agree with the methods, we do not agree with these demonstrations Because they are creating tensions and making the problem worse, not better That was their close-up analysis of what was happening and so they really opposed the efforts of Dr. King And yes, the President of my district did not support me on that day that I led the march in Selma Maybe we could say it even a little bit stronger and again I don't want to besmirch his name But he was undercutting you, he took an active role in saying don't listen to the sky That is exactly the way the members of my congregation in Birmingham saw it That he was really, as you say, undercutting my efforts and to stand that we were taking that day And he certainly was, and I think that's the way most people would look at it Unfortunately, the way he would try to rationalize and justify what he had done Is he would have to say, well, I have to serve both the whites in my districts who have difficulty with all these changes And so I'm trying to be, he wouldn't say that I'm trying to straddle the fence here But he would say that that would be my way of describing what he was doing He wanted to be able to say to the segregationist, the white segregationist in his district and his church body Well, at least I tried to say what I could to let you know that I don't totally disown you Well, that's worse than straddling the fence That is just refusing to stand up and take the risk that would have been involved If he had said that he supported what I did, I'm sure he would have had the outcry of many, many people in the district But he could have remained silent, he didn't have to send that telegram That's how deeply he had his own fears, I guess, of people in his district That obviously did not agree, even with the goals that we had in mind, much less with our methods I guess I want to talk a little bit about denominational divisions here That was Missouri Synod, Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod Later on, when you were in Milwaukee, first your church was associated with Missouri Synod Then, I don't know, the letters kept changing I'm aware of LCA and ALC, the American Lutheran Church, the Lutheran Church in America And what we have now, the ELCA, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America So there's denominational differences and emphases in these cases Your father was at a storefront church, was it actually Lutheran, or how did you get connected with Lutheran Church in particular Missouri Synod? Well, yeah, it was Lutheran, and it was Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod That was where I grew up, and that's why I was, you know, humanly speaking That's why I was in the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod, I grew up in that Synod That evidently also existed, therefore, over in Alabama Which, I guess, I don't think of Alabama as a strongly Lutheran place Was it a minority denomination where there really much more in the way of Baptist or Methodist around there, I'm assuming? Absolutely, in fact, there's a saying in the black community that if a black person is not Baptist or Methodist, then he's been tampered with And it almost say the same of whites, that the Baptist Church and Methodist Church were the two strong denominations in the white community And in the black community, and Lutherans and Catholics particularly were the least represented There were a fair number of Presbyterians and Episcopalians, but even they were in smaller numbers than Baptists and Methodists So, you got to be right there at the center, I mean, maybe not right at the beginning of it, because civil rights was going pretty well In the 1950s, and there were significant steps forward in the 1950s and up into the 60s But you got to be there at a crucial point, I mean, a number of times you traveled along, you were certainly part of a number of situations with Martin Luther King Jr Any come to mind in particular that were important for you? Well, that is correct, certainly, I was on the committee of 20 as it was sometimes called in Birmingham Which was a committee of pastors and business people, and I was the one white person on the committee That met with Dr. King, Ralph Abernathy, Andrew Young, James Bevel, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference People who were in Birmingham in 1963 for the demonstrations Fred Shuttlesworth, of course, was president of the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights Which is the Birmingham Affiliate of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference So I met with them on this committee, and that was certainly a wonderful experience And that's where I got my clothes wet, moving in the direction of participating in civil rights demonstrations Although I did not participate in any of the demonstrations themselves in Birmingham I did participate in the movement meetings in the evening on this committee of 20 that did the planning for the demonstrations And was really gearing myself up to actually participate In order to participate in those demonstrations, you had to be ready to be arrested and to face whatever would come as a result And so it took both a bit of courage and a bit of working out of coverage for your pastoral duties Because if you are not going to be there for the pastoral work for a week or two You need to have some kind of plan to cover So there were several reasons why I did not jump into the demonstrations Even though I supported them, participated in most of the nightly movement meetings that were part of the movement And then participated in some ticketing that fall When the businesses did not live up to the agreement that they had made with the black community To hire cashiers and to take down the signs on restrooms that separated white from colored as they put it in those days That was the slow development of my participation ultimately In most of those events, the Tuesday after bloody Sunday And certainly the final day of Selma to Montgomery March, Dr. King, was very much involved in front and center And the relationship between him and me, of course, was not that deep in those events Because he was in the leadership position there, and he was the one who had to make all of the speeches and that sort of thing But there were occasions such as this committee of 20 in Birmingham In the funeral service for three of the four girls killed in the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church And occasions like that where I was quite close to Dr. King, where I did have enough of a relationship that he recognized me And I recognized him on a couple of occasions going through the Atlanta airport, for instance, and the like So that's where you started out, your nine years down in Birmingham as a pastor there And then you ended up transferring up to Wisconsin And if I can be so blunt, were you just tired of the warm weather? Is that why you came to Milwaukee? I wasn't either tired of the warm weather nor did I relish the cold weather of Wisconsin And I certainly was not tired of my work as pastor of St. Paul's and Church It was deeply engaged, loved the people, loved the work The one reason why I accepted the call in the Lutheran Church, the congregation calls a pastor And the pastor then has the awesome responsibility of determining whether he will accept that call or return the call So I accepted this call to cross Lutheran Church in Milwaukee It was a congregation that found itself in the midst of a black community or neighborhood In the course of about five, six, seven years the neighborhood had just flipped from white to black And to the credit of the congregation, they had begun to reach out to the neighbors and a few They had made what was a difficult decision for congregations here in Milwaukee Because of the racism that was simply part of the culture of our country, it still is It was difficult to make the decision, but they did to accept and even to truly welcome blacks But they also found that it was not something that happened easily And so they wanted a pastor that had some experience in reaching out to African Americans And that's why they called me, I'd been in Birmingham for nine years And had a very good pastoral experience in the congregation that grew from 30 to 300 And so they called me because they really wanted to reach out to the community, they said And so I came because I wanted to see whether it truly is possible for a congregation to become a racially integrated congregation For the church to lead the way in what our country was having such difficulty with And that is dismantling our segregation culture and laws and realities And become not only a desegregated country, but an integrated country And so that's why I came to Cross Lutheran in Milwaukee in 1967 And I just want to note for our listeners, Cross Lutheran, when Joe joined the church When he took on his pastor of the church, it was at that point what 95% white, but again surrounded by a black community That was in 1967, by 2001, the church was 75% black So this was a major transition that you were at the helm for a major change going on in that church I do want to remind our listeners that you're tuned in to Spirit in Action This is an Oregon Spirit Radio production on the web at NorthernSpiritRadio.org Where you'll find more than nine years for our programs for free listening and download You'll find links to our guests, you'll find a link in this case to lwangersbook.com Where you can find Joseph L. Wanger's book Strength for the Struggle You also find a place to post comments and we do love two-way communication So when you visit our site, please post a comment There's also a place to make donations or you can find an address to mail this one Click on the donate button But first of all, I would encourage you to support your local community radio station Local community radio stations provide a slice of news and music in the United States That we find nowhere else on our Verizon So please start out by supporting them both with your hands and with your wallet Again, Joe L. Wanger is here today He's author of a book Strength for the Struggle Insights from the Civil Rights Movement and Urban Ministry And I personally think, Joe, that you probably have written, you know, good 30 or 40 books Over the years with all of the experiences you have You encapsulate a lot of it in this collection I don't get the sense, though, that you really are instituting your own horn so much But there is so much history that's captured here One thing I would just like your perspective on if you could give it to me Is the way religion looked different in the 1950s When you started down at St. Paul Luther and down in Birmingham And the way religion looks now I grew up thinking Gandhi was a very religious person who was leading change in the world I think back to even abolitionist times back before slavery was abolished And that often religious people were leading us away from prejudice and slavery And to something better Certainly at the time that you were active in Birmingham I think that religion was a significant spark, a major spark Maybe the biggest, most noticeable spark that was active in helping us fight racism I don't think that that's so clear today And yet this has been a burning fire that's been at your base throughout your pastorate And even since then That religion today, if it's considered by young people at all, is more likely to be in a conservative direction What's been your experience over the decades that you've been serving in that way? Well, I would have to say that it's true that most people in the organized church Do not see working for justice and for justice issues Like working on mass incarceration, working on the joblessness Working on the racial disparities in school outcomes, academic outcomes And the like, people in the churches do not think of working on these justice issues As part of their faith and part of their witness to the gospel The majority do not And that is really sad And in a very real sense, even back in the 1950s and 1960s Even though it was seen that the black church was leading the way in the civil rights movement It really was, even then, the minority of black pastors and black members Who were out there risking their lives and in the leadership Although they had the support of most of the black community for this It was then, and it is now, that it's a minority of congregational members That really see working for justice as an important part of their faith life There is a very active movement around the country of church members And congregations getting involved in justice issues The congregation based organizing movement in Wisconsin, its wisdom And Eau Claire, it's Jonah, in Milwaukee, it's Micah Those are congregations with a few people who are ready to work for justice And in a certain sense, they're carrying on where Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement in the south left off We had a lot of work to do, it's a small minority of folks and of congregations But I guess it's what always has been It takes leaders and it takes some vision and courage For people to step out of the box and really work at doing justice Micah 6-8 is a powerful passage which Jesus referred to in Matthew 23-23 It's that passage where the prophet Micah says So what is it that God requires if you will man But to do justice, to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God So doing justice is right there in the front of what God expects us and calls us to do But you're right, it's a minority of churches and of church members that really take that seriously I think that a number of young people and not just young people or many generations of people Have doubts about the integrity of the church That the church is serving its own needs instead of serving the needs of the people You've obviously been a faithful member of the church and trying to lead that in a better direction for decades Are you just impossible to discourage or have you just seen that much positive direction that you've kept hope alive? Well, I am a person of hope and I truly believe that even when we do not win the battle or the hate to use the imagery of war But as a campaign when we do not win in the first year, the second year, the third year, for instance Of the 11 by 15 campaign to bring down prison population I'm not about to give up for a couple of reasons, for one thing as long as the injustices are there Our calling is not to be necessarily successful immediately, but to be faithful in our witness to trying to bring about change But secondly, I do truly believe that change, which usually comes slowly, has come some amazing changes We look back on our history that are moving toward justice and a more a nation of more equality than before Martin Luther King used in several of his speeches the image of the moral arc of the universe, which is long But it bends toward justice and we really, if we believe, God is definitely bringing in the kingdom of justice and peace, and we're part of it, we know the direction in which this is all going, all be it very slowly You talk about a number of the ways in which the congregations you've been associated with, been pastor of And I guess with Heffitha that you're just a member of the congregation, in that case you no longer leading as pastor But in these congregations you've talked about a number of the ways in which, in the phrase you use frequently, is you walk with different people And so some of the issues that you discuss in your book, Strength for the Struggle You talk about overcoming sexism and about race issues and gay and lesbian ministry and accepting in refugees and working with those in prison and treatment and helping those who have been incarcerated First of all, talk about that phrase walking with, I associate that more likely with Evangelical Christians than with Lutherans Because you've been part and leadership in church, which is largely African American, has that changed your vocabulary? Does that make you a different kind of Lutheran than many other Lutherans? Well, I'd like to believe that all Christians could and would describe their relationship with people in the world and especially people with special needs, people at the edges could describe their relationship as being a relationship of walking with But you're absolutely right, even the nominations that maybe have picked up on that way of talking do not necessarily live it out that well Because walking with people means that you really see their value and you do not put yourself above that person but you put yourself alongside of that person if someone that you recognize you have something to receive from them and by the grace of God you have something to give to them But I see this as a very basic way in which we must describe our Christian life and our Christian vocation this walking with, that's why the first chapter of the book is that you'll notice the title is accompaniment as lifestyle and accompaniment is just another word for walking with people The more we see people in prison, people coming out of prison, former offenders, people struggling with addictions, gay and lesbian persons refugees, immigrants, the more we see them as people created in the image of God and redeemed by Christ and people with whom we have everything in common except maybe some of the disadvantages that they experienced but the more we see that, recognize that and walk with such people, the more we are living out the gospel and living out through the lifestyle and example of Jesus himself who I think the way you'd have to describe his life here and his ministry here on earth was a walking with the people and particularly, particularly those at the edges the workers, the tax collectors, women, prostitutes, those were the people with whom he made it a point to walk and certainly that should be our calling today if we're serious about living out the gospel Can you tell me one or two of the stories about your experience? I think particularly when you were head of cross Lutheran when you were pastor there, stories about some of the ministries that your church undertook and the real people, the real experience of you know when you're engaging with issues like sexism the church superiors again weren't on the same page as your congregation allowing women or inviting women into areas of ministry could you talk about a couple of the stories, how this really played out that or with gay, lesbian, ministry or prisoners you flush it out so that we can see what it really is like for a congregation to step forward well you're of course opening me up for the possibility of dozens of stories and to choose one or two or three is not easy so I would say that people need to read the book because I agree, strength for this struggle, they should be reading it insights from the civil rights movement in urban ministry by Joseph L. Wanger again there's a link on northernspiritradio.org and you'll find your way to the book but pick out a couple good tidbits to get them motivated yeah I'll pick out one story because I think this really warms my heart you know for instance of a woman in the congregation who would be looked upon I'm sure by many many people in the business world and the rest of the world as someone who has very little to offer to a business or to the church or to the world she's not a college graduate and in fact not even able to read that well but a really strong woman who really worked hard all of her life raised her children and three of her grandchildren and was so faithful in her life and witness in the congregation that congregation voted her on to the board of elders which is in the Lutheran tradition those are the people who assist the pastor in serving communion and reading the lessons and visiting the sick and the like you know they're literally next to the pastor in terms of work and role and here she was someone who was living it out living out the gospel in spite of being someone who had very menial jobs and very little education but her witness in her life was just so authentic and so real that people accepted her from her one of the reminders of how deep her life was in Christ is that on a Sunday morning she often had to work Saturday nights you know she'd get off at seven o'clock in the morning and she would bring her children or in later years her grandchildren to church because that was so important to her and of course having worked all night she was dead tired and she would sometimes nod in the church service anybody who did not know her and what her background was would probably see her as a real cue polisher or somebody who's not very serious but it's very opposite and I guess it's just an example of how if we're walking with people with the openness to receive their gifts we can recognize some of the streets of people that the rest of the world would never never see to me she is still someone who she's a friend and a supporter of the work and the life and the ministry and the gospel to this very day I would like a couple of your comments if you would about the steps forward again Cross Lutheran in Milwaukee was associated with Missouri Senate and at a certain point because some of the steps you were taking recognition of women's role and other things were not acceptable to that church structure you affiliated with different groups of Lutherans who created them and I think Cross Lutheran is currently ELCA if I'm not mistaken could you give me your perspective on going through those transitions was it a case of the local congregation evolving in a different direction or how did you perceive that change? that change was something that was very deep and very profound and from my perspective came precisely because we were trying to live out the gospel and not in spite of the gospel but because of the gospel in spite of our life together as a congregation that because of that life and because we were so determined to have the gospel at the center and not to simply be a congregation that does the Sunday morning ritual and does everything to try to stay in tune with the world and its expectations are even the church hierarchy and their expectations but we really insisted on being true to the gospel and true to the people with whom we were walking and that was the basis for our insisting on continuing for instance to accept women on the board of elders even though we were threatened with being dropped from membership in the Missouri Senate if we did that and likewise working and walking and even worshiping with people of other denominations this was another issue that we were frowned upon and threatened by the church authorities because they had a different view of how relationships between denominations ought to be lived out so that change from a church body that was so constrictive to a church body that was much freer in terms of permitting and encouraging congregations and pastors to live out the gospel was not difficult it was almost the natural outcome of that struggle to be genuine and authentic in our walk and our life in the gospel as we saw it and as the spirit led us to see it sounds to me like it's a transition from living by the letter by the law and a transition to being led by spirit and that was actually being put into action by the people in cross Lutheran or Hepha as well that's a great way of describing it exactly in other words we really insisted on putting the gospel which is both freeing on the one hand and compelling and challenging on the other hand to let that be the center of our life not a set of rules or even of doctrines unless it's a doctrine or a teaching that is very specifically connected with the gospel itself you know there's a whole lot we could talk about you but I did have to ask you one question you grew up with your traditional Lutheran hymns and one of the things you write about in strength of the struggle is the music that was more native, more indigenous, more enthusiastic for the people there are your favorite songs still the old hymns you grew up with or have your bones changed and found space for different kind of music that very definitely there is a new song that I learned to sing and that we as a congregation learned to sing and you know the songs that are on my mind and my heart are the songs coming out of some of the gospel traditions and even some folk songs you know everything from there is a bomb and gilead to songs such as "We Shall Overcome" even the Black National Anthem which is not exactly in the gospel tradition but to lift every voice is a powerful powerful hymn those are songs that we learned to sing that the choirs sang but then the congregation sang and we even developed a hymnal supplement at Cross Church with some of these songs because we recognize how important they were we were going to walk with people for whom these songs were so important and in fact conveyed the gospel so beautifully and we need to be using those songs in our Sunday worship so we developed what we called the urban hymnal supplement and used it for years in fact it's still around and definitely filled a niche for several urban congregations here in Milwaukee and it even got picked up in urban congregations elsewhere in the country sounds like a wonderful process of enrichment I know Joe that you have to move on to some other things I do appreciate so much you're taking the time to be with us again we've been speaking with Joseph L. Wanger his recent book "Strength for the Struggle" insights from the civil rights movement and urban ministry and you'll find a wide range of stories and experiences witnesses to church evolving changing finding the strength to walk with people of all sorts that none be left outside the beloved body of Christ Joe thank you so much for your work on all of the issues but also the way that you've been part of nurturing Mica congregational based activism there in Milwaukee and wisdom nationally you even helped us kick off Jonah here in the Chippewa Valley of Wisconsin I really see your life as a low-key high-octane effort to really make the spirit come alive in all the ways that we do things and so thank you so much for that work and especially for joining me for spirit and action today well thank you for listening to the story sharing the story and being a voice for that kind of openness there in the Chippewa Valley toward change and toward honesty and authenticity for people of faith so thank you very much thank you Joe the theme music for this program is "Turning of the World" performed by Sarah Thompson this spirit in action program is an effort of Northern Spirit Radio you can listen to our programs and find links and information about us and our guests on our website northernspiritradio.org thank you for listening my host Mark helps me and I welcome your comments and stories of those leading lives of spiritual fruit may you find deep roots to support you and grow steadily toward the light this is spirit in action with every voice with every song we will know this world of love with every voice with every song we will know this world of love and our lives will feel the echo of our healing You
There are struggles continuing within our country on so many fronts, often invisible to those in power or even in comfortable conditions, but badly in need of a cadre of those to faithfully walk with the beleaguered and afflicted. Then there's this book...