Spirit in Action
Singing, Fighting, and Mushing for Bristol Bay
Musicians United to Protect Bristol Bay have been spreading the call to step forward for the well-being of the people and way of life threatened by the proposed Pebble Mine of the coast next to Alaska's Bristol Bay. It's a hopeful time as we speak to several defenders of the land - musician Si Kahn, former Alaskan State Senator, Suzanne Little, dog-musher Monica Zappa, & Alaskan Representative, Bryce Edgmon.
- Duration:
- 55m
- Broadcast on:
- 13 Apr 2014
- Audio Format:
- other
[music] Let us sing this song for the healing of the world That we may hear as one With every voice, with every song We will move this world along And our lives will feel the echo of our healing [music] Welcome to Spirit in Action. My name is Mark Helpes Me. Each week, I'll be bringing you stories of people living lives of fruitful service, of peace, community, compassion, creative action, and progressive efforts. I'll be tracing the spiritual roots that support and nourish them in their service, hoping to inspire and encourage you to sink deep roots and produce sacred food in your own life. Let us sing this song for the dreaming of the world That we may dream as one With every voice, with every song We will move this world along We've got a real treat for you today for Spirit in Action. We're going to mix in a few people and some music with traveling north to Alaska, an area called Bristol Bay. You've heard about environmental issues in Alaska before, including the oil pipeline and the desire to open up fragile reserve areas to more oil drilling. But today, we'll be talking about the fight against a major gold and copper mine proposed next to Bristol Bay. And we're going to start out this just in advance of Earth Day special with a call to a longtime friend of and embodiment of Spirit in Action. Folk musician and lifetime activist Sai Khan. He joins us by phone from North Carolina. Sai, welcome to Spirit in Action for a special Bristol Bay episode. Mark, it's wonderful to be back on a great show and talking to a great interviewer and I am so appreciative that you recognize the importance of the struggle to stop the pebble mine and to protect Bristol Bay permanently. I so appreciate that you are part of this historic struggle. Well, given that Earth Day is just coming up, it seems so important to me to focus on the struggles going on right now and the achievements being made in terms of dealing kindly with Mother Earth. So, tell us about Bristol Bay. Bristol Bay is in southwest Alaska, lies north of the Aleutian chain and Mark, you should not be whistling sitting on the dock of the bay and taking about San Francisco Bay. You shouldn't be listening to Patty Page singing Old Cape Cod and thinking of Cape Cod Bay. This is a massive inland ocean. Bristol Bay is hundreds of miles across, hundreds of miles deep, and it is the source of almost half of the wild sockeye salmon left in the world. 46% according to the United States Environmental Protection Agency of all the wild sockeye salmon that we eat come out of Bristol Bay. Along the rivers that drain into Bristol Bay are Alaska native villages where the descendants of those who came over from Siberia on the land bridge 50,000 to 100,000 years ago still live among the only native peoples in North America who have not been removed from their original home places. So, this is a region of the earth that is pristine, that is valuable, that is productive, and that is threatened. The threat comes from the Pebble Partnership which wants to build the world's largest open pit gold and copper mine in the headwaters of the rivers where the salmon spawn along these banks, these Alaska native villages are located, it is a death sentence for the bay, and musicians united to protect Bristol Bay as part of a worldwide fight to protect Bristol Bay for all generations. You said it's a death sentence for the bay if the mine goes through. Is there an environmental assessment that says that, or has the mine just poo-pooed that possibility? Where does that information come from? Well, Mark, that's an absolutely fair question, and in fact, first there are two studies. One, there is the international history of open pit mining. There has never been an open pit gold mine or an open pit copper mine in the history of the world that has not destroyed environmentally speaking everything that lay down stream. It has to do with the production of sulfuric acid in the course of refining and the inability under modern technology to store that safely. The mine would create, according to the company's own figures, 12 billion tons of sulfuric acid-laced toxic waste. That's 12 billion with a B. So that's the first thing the first idea is that, over the course of many, many years, the Environmental Protection Agency has done the science on this mine, and they have said it cannot be built and operated safely. Among other things, Alaska is a wetlands. It's a collective wetlands. I was flown over the proposed site of the Pebble Mine, going 150 miles, flown, by the way, by the former Republican president of the Alaska State Center, who is now opposed to the mine, basically as an environmentalist, and as a humanist to somebody who believes in Alaska, who has changed from support to opposition. His name is Rick Cavalver, he's a wonderful guy, and one of the best push pilots in Alaska. And what you see is water, water, water. You see streams, you see wetlands, you see ponds, you see rivers, and you know that it's all unconnected, undergrads. The asset will leach. The company itself says, when we're finished mining, it's no longer our responsibility. We leave those 12 billions of toxic waste where they are, and it becomes a public responsibility. So that's untenable. The Environmental Protection Agency study took place over many years. It is a scientific study, it's not a political study. And although the company disputes the findings, it says, well, we think we can do it safely, the science says no. So there's no doubt whatsoever about what will eventually happen over how many years that we can't say, but eventually, the sulfuric acid will leach, the copper will leach, and what life, human and animal exists below the vine will be gone. And so this is happening up in Alaska, and I know you've been an organizer in so many activities. How did you get involved with something up there? You're from the southeastern United States. Well, I've lived in work in the southeastern United States for 50 years. You know, it's a really good question work, but the answer is the miracle of the Internet. I got four years ago, just about four years ago, and he emailed through my website, Saikon.com. Basically said, my name is Dan Strickland. You don't know me, but I know your music. I'm a commercial fisherman in Bristol Bay. Here's what's going on. We have a great coalition to fight against it. You know, of the people who work the bay, who fish the bay, of Alaska natives, environmentalists, the fishing industry, people who fish for sport, great coalition, tough fight, and we don't have a theme song. He said, you know, I can't pay you to do this, but if you will come to Alaska, I can actually get you an air ticket. And spend a couple weeks with us. We'll give you all the homemade beer, all the smoked salmon you want straight to my Jewish heart. How could I turn it down? He said, you will write us a theme song. And you know, I don't know that I wrote the theme song, but I wrote enough songs for a CD. And along the way, I met many years ago, a wonderful Alaskan, whose name is Suzanne Middleay, former state senator, in a wonderful bluegrass position. And I was spending time with her, and Dan, the commercial fisherman from Bristol Bay, who invited me to Alaska. The three of us came up with the idea of building an international network of grassroots and community musicians to do something small as a part of this gigantic fight to stop the Pebble Mine and to save Bristol Bay. And that's what I've been doing for almost four years with Suzanne, with Dan, with many other people. I want to stress that musicians united to protect Bristol Bay. We're not the lead organization in this fight. We're not the major part of this fight. We're a very small part of a very large and very important fight there, organizations and people in Alaska in the lower 48 around the world, who are all working together to try to stop this. But we are doing our part, and we're using the magic of music, the emotional power that music brings to tell the story. And we're using the access to media, that musicians and other artists have. I am here on your radio show because of a musician. I know you have people who aren't just musicians on, but it's because of my music that I'm able to be talking to you today, and through you to the many people who love your show, listen to your show regularly, every musician has the same media access. So what we are built at Musicians United to protect Bristol Bay, which is, by the way, available at www. MusiciansUnited.info, what we are built is a network that functions for communication, for education, and for mobilization. We educate, we communicate, we mobilize. So through the more than 350 musicians who are a part of Musicians United to protect Bristol Bay, we can reach thousands, hundreds of thousands of people. When is time to take action? So for example, when the Environmental Protection Agency issued its preliminary findings, the same findings we talked about just a bit ago that said, "This is the wrong mine in the wrong place. It should have been built." They asked for public comment. We went to our members, they went to their fans, they went to their media contacts, and we helped spread the word so that people were able to tell the Environmental Protection Agency to not approve this line. You've been an organizer, community organizer. And a civil rights organizer isn't a union organizer. It's my nature. I've done this for almost 50 years. And you've also written about it, and I had you on previously, sharing at least one of your books, what is happening right about the community organizing to protect Bristol Bay? That's a very good question Mark. I think it's a completely brilliant campaign. Musicians United to protect Bristol Bay did not create the campaign. I want to be very clear about that. But many other organizations that will ask, and elsewhere, what I think is a really brilliant community organizing jump, for example, they persuaded some of the major gold users in the world. Tiffany's and Zales have both said that if the mind were to be built, they would never use the gold from it. They would view it as tainted. That's extraordinary. Some Liberty chefs around the world have created special Bristol Bay salmon dishes. That's a really creative piece of organizing. There are groups like Enough Al O'Kestai, which means Guardians of the Earth and Eupik, down on the Bay that have been to London to the headquarters of Anglo-American, which was one of the original partners, who have now pulled out. So there's great, great, great creativity. If you go to the last year's catalog for Orvis, the great fishing tackle manufacturer, the centerfold was two pages of protecting Bristol Bay. And so I think as a community organizer, I have such respect for the creativity, the diligence, the stubbornness of the people in Alaska who are doing a campaign that is, I think, as good as campaigns get. When musicians united to protect Bristol Bay decided to sponsor Monica Zappa, a young musher from Wisconsin, where you're from, work, who was qualified to write her first idea on this 975 mile last great race through the Alaska winner that just took place several weeks ago. When we organized Suzanne Little, the great former state senator who is a co-founder of Musicians United to Protect Bristol Bay, Suzanne organized a concert with bluegrass, with revivalist 50s music, and it was opened by an Alaska native dance troupe that did a very spiritual performance recreating the lives of the salmon and the interdependence of themselves and their communities on the salmon, so sure. I don't think you can have effective political action without there being a spiritual rooting, understanding that in multiple ways. Well, Si, you know, I can't say enough about how much I appreciate your work, but I think I should talk to some of these other folks, perhaps right up there on site in Alaska. Who do you think I should talk to? Could you give me that information and then maybe we can play one of your songs and I'll give them a call? Absolutely. Well, first, Mark, you should talk to Suzanne Little, one of the three co-fibers of Musicians United to Protect Bristol Bay. She is a former Alaska state senator. She is a wonderful bluegrass musician and singer. Everything I've done, the many festivals I've played at in Alaska. Alaska, many concerts I've done. Suzanne and I have always done those together. So, yeah, and she has just an extraordinarily perceptive understanding of Alaska and of Alaska. She's really my ongoing political guide. You know, look, I'm a guy down here in North Carolina. What do I do over from Alaska? So, yes, absolutely talk to Suzanne Little. And then I would also suggest you talk to Bryce Edgeman. Bryce was raised on Bristol Bay right in the town of Dillingham. He lives there today. He is a member of the Curr Young Tribe, C-U-R-Y-U-N-G. He's an enrolled member, or as are his children. He fished commercially in Bristol Bay for 20 years. He can tell you about what means to fish this avenue of Bristol Bay, and he is the elected representative to the Alaska legislature, representing the Bristol Bay area. So, Bryce is completely involved in the struggle to protect Bristol Bay, a very fine musician. I have visited over the course of about 50 years as an organizer, many legislative and congressional offices. It's the only time I have seen a minimum of half a dozen guitars and mandolins in a state legislator's office was in Bryce Edgeman's office. You know Mark, somebody else who absolutely should talk to her at Alaska is Monica Zappa. First, because she's from Wisconsin, and I know you chief has liked to talk to each other, right? Oh, you bet. And we munch cheese while we do it. I know, you know, all those curves and ways. You're curious, curves, and you're curious ways. So, Monica grew up mushing in Wisconsin. I did not know this. I did not know that you were a state of dog sled racers, and eventually moved to Alaska. It's a wonderful story. I met her at Salmonstock, a wonderful music festival organized by people who are fighting the mine, where she had a booth that said "mushing for Bristol Bay." And it turned out that she was running the idea rod specifically to bring attention to the issue. And she's a very powerful, thoughtful young woman who just finished a 975 mile dog foot run through the Alaska wilderness not more than three weeks ago. So, yeah, talk to Monica Zappa. I do want to thank you for that. It's always great to talk to you, Sy. It's always great to talk to you. And, you know, I love the show. I love what you do with the show, and thank you for doing it. And I want to go out with some of your music. How can we finish this off? You know, let's end with a song called "Abundance." That represents the point of view. It's told to me of the native Alaskans who live along the rivers that lead into Bristol Bay. It says, "We've been here 10,000 years along this river shore. If there's any justice left, we'll be here 10,000 more." And the story behind it, I heard from a 12-year-old Alaska native kid sitting -- I was sitting the third grade desk in a Dillingham Junior High School. I'm pretty tall. You know, I mean, my knees have yet to recover from that afternoon. And he stood up and told me about some of the traditions. I was there with a group of a dozen young, meaning 10, 11, 12-year-old native kids who called themselves rebels to the pebble, and they traveled a state of Alaska telling people, "This is our home. These are our villages. These are our traditions, our languages, our cultures. These boats are our family boats. This fishing. This is how we survive. That, and by hunting and gathering, do not let some foreign corporation take this away from us." And that's why I wrote the song "Abundance." You speak true. Thanks so much, Saikon. We're going to play the song "Abundance" now. And while it's playing, I'll get some more folks on the phone. Thank you again so much, Saikon. Mark, thank you so much. Abundance. When you hear the words of assistance, you think of someone poor with an outstretched hand. To us, it means abundance. Living off the richness of the land. We've been here 10,000 years along this river shore. If there's any justice left, we're here 10,000 more. The first segment of the season, we always take and give to someone else. Any game we carry home, we feed others before ourselves. We've been here 10,000 years along this river shore. If there's any justice left, we'll be here 10,000 more. No power known can never force me from this ancient place that gave me birth from the richness of this river and the abundance of this earth. We've been here 10,000 years along this river shore. If there's any justice left, we're here 10,000 more. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Saikan Song, Abundance about the precious culture and people of the coast of Alaska, folks whose way of life and lives are threatened by the pebble mine at Bristol Bay. I took Sa'i's recommendation and I've contacted some other folks and will talk to them one by one. I'll surely have to offload some of the gems that they have to share to the NorthernSpiritRadio.org website. So look for the bonus excerpts on that site, but first up is Suzanne Little, former state senator of Alaska and one of the energetic Alaskan voices against the mine. Suzanne joins us by phone from Anchorage, Alaska. Suzanne, I'm really excited to have you here today for Spirit in Action. Good to be here. You served in the state senate there in Alaska back in '92 to '94. Why did you leave? Why didn't you just stay in and prevent things like Bristol Bay from ever happening? Well, actually I served until '95. It was a truncated one term. And I would love to have stayed, but I was unelected by my constituents. They preferred a more conservative person over me in the election. So while I was there, I think we did some good things for our communities. We advocated strongly for public involvement in development and local control over development so that you wouldn't have big corporations coming in and trying to plop something down around communities that didn't have a say. And actually that's one of the things that we're working hard on with Musicians United, is to help people most affected by the proposed Pebble Mine have a strong say in what happens around their community. And if your legislation had been more powerful, continued to grow in season, then maybe it would have prevented the dangers that they're having right now, I guess, in Bristol Bay. Well, it certainly would have given local people more of a say in what happens. Over the years, the public involvement abilities have been eroded by state legislatures and governors since the '90s. To the degree that in the mining, especially, there isn't much of a process. You know, a corporation applies for a mining permit and in the state, it's just sort of a rubber stamped approval. There is a NEPA process still, but that's a federal process. Our state process has been windowed down to not very much. I'm afraid that we have the same situation currently here in Wisconsin, where I live, with the election of Scott Walker, as governor, a lot of these rights and protections. They have kept our state a very picturesque state, as well as healthy, environmentally. A lot of that's been eroded, and then specifically, in terms of mining, he's tried to do away with the protective process. So I'm afraid the battle is being fought all around, and I'm so pleased that there are people from Wisconsin who are part of your struggle up there who are trying to help protect you. And one of the people involved in that is Stephen Lee Rich, who's here in Madison, Wisconsin, who's head of Musicians United. When you started, it was Musicians United centered there in Alaska, and where are all the members of Musicians United located? We have a lot of Alaskan Musician members, a lot of Alaskan non Musician members, and we have members from all over the United States and in Europe. So we are a broadly based organization. We don't really even have a center location. We're in the cloud, as it were, and accept members from any location on the planet. You said, Suzanne, that permits for mines are kind of rubber stamped these days. A company applies for them, and they get it. Why is it being different in the case of the Pebble Mine at Bristol Bay? Well, what I said was that the state process, the Alaska state process for mining review is not substantive. Fortunately, we do have other federal processes that are required, the NEPA process, the National Environmental Protection Act, the Clean Water Act. Those are federal processes that are required to be undergone for development of such a mine. So in this particular situation, knowing that our state doesn't have a substantive process, communities around the Pebble Project area ask EPA to come in and do a watershed assessment, in other words, to review impacts that the proposed project would have on the watershed, and therefore on the really important salmon runs that people depend upon for their very livelihoods. So what kind of actions have you taken? What's has been effective? Clearly, things are going a bit in your direction, and that's good news for the planet. Well, as you mentioned, Dan Strickland and I got together and raised some funds to bring Sai Khan up to Alaska so that he could sort of write a theme song for the struggle against the Pebble Mine. He ended up writing a whole album. He's such an overachiever, that guy. And we were able to produce and distribute this album to over 800 radio stations several weeks before. The public comment to the EPA's watershed assessment was due. We really feel that we played a role in achieving significant numbers of new comments on the watershed assessment that was eventually finalized by EPA. What are some of your other activities? Well, we put together a in-state tour just to get the word out in-state for a music tour. We've done that the last couple of summers. We've also performed, Sai has performed at Salmon Stock. We've also had a presence at folk festivals and folk alliances. In the lower 48, the International Blue Grass Music Association, we've been signing up members at every opportunity, spreading the word about this cause and why it's important to people even in North Carolina. And Wisconsin. And Wisconsin, right. What's the biggest group of people you've brought together related to this issue? One of the places where a lot of people gathered to advocate against the Pebble Mine was at Salmon Stock this last year, the third year of Salmon Stock. The concert was sold out. We had Brandy Carlisle headlining the show, and she's a person who really gets how important salmon are to not only Alaskans, but the rest of the planet. So that was really exciting. Salmon Stock. And how would that differ from Woodstock? Well, it's kind of the same concept, you know, bringing people together for peace, love, and salmon. Okay. It sounds wonderful. So what do you see coming up for the actions? Well, you know, a lot of action has occurred just recently. We're going to be in a position where we're going to need to kind of wait to see what happens. As you know, both investors, both major corporation and investors have pulled out of the Pebble Project. We just got news of the last one this week. You know, that's a big change. So the Pebble Project is going to be looking for new investors with the EPA's putting in the Clean Water Act action. It's going to be difficult for the Pebble Project to come up with new investors, I think. Absolutely, the fight is not over. We still have to remain vigilant, and this is still going to be a long-term battle as long as those minerals are in the ground in that location. Thank you so much for doing the action, and especially thank you for joining me today for Spirit and Action. I'm grateful to have been involved. Thanks. That was Suzanne Little, a member of the Musicians United to Protect Bristol Bay, and a former member of the Alaskan State Senate. Spirit and Action is a Northern Spirit radio production on the web at northernspiritradio.org, with close to nine years of programs for your free listening and download links to places like MusiciansUnited.info, a place for comments so we can build two-way communication, and a place for the donations that make this program possible. Also remember to support the incredible conduit of often neglected news and music called community radio. The gift your local community radio station shares is well worth supporting with your hands and wallet. So reach out and make a difference in your community. Saicon has been deeply involved with the fight to protect Bristol Bay from the proposed Pebble Mine in Alaska, and he's connected me up with several Alaskans doing the work on the ground. Next up is a valiant and dedicated worker for the cause, and a dog sled musher to boot, Monica Zappa. Cellular technology extends all the way to the outback of Alaska where Monica Zappa now joins us. Monica, it's great to have you here today for Spirit and Action. Yeah, well thank you very much for having me. So you and I have a couple things in common, not only a concern for Bristol Bay, but also the fact that you happen to come from Wisconsin. How the heck did you go out there to fight environmental issues when we need you here fighting mind problems that we're going to have right here in Wisconsin? Oh boy, so many questions there. Well, yeah, I grew up in Wisconsin for the first 18 years, and I loved it very much. My mom and dad had four dogs there, and so that's how I got introduced into the mushroom world. Then I went to college in Minnesota from New York City, and then also went on to graduate school in Northern Illinois for geography. And after going to school for many years, I realized that I wanted to get out of the classroom and just experience a little bit more of what nature had to offer. So I was ready to go to the extreme, and that's why I decided to go to Alaska and try my hand at dog-motion, which was 2010, four years ago. I moved up to -- to see off Alaska. I just took my bike and drove my bike from the integer report so you could see off where I had a position lined up to be a dog handler. I wanted to just kind of move from there. I've always been interested in environmental issues, and in a way that I've lived, I've tried to find a way to be somewhat active in issues going on locally. And when I moved to Alaska, the public mind issue was really starting to get a lot more media attention and whatnot, and it just kind of struck me as an issue that we really, really need to make sure that this mind doesn't happen because what Alaska has is salmon. It's really, in my opinion, they're most important renewable resource. And I think a lot of the people and animals in Alaska are very true. So I just wanted to be involved in making sure that these fish are protected. This was 2012, and we decided we wanted to work on the public mind issue and do what we could as far as from the mushroom perspective. So we arranged a road trip actually going back to Wisconsin and Minnesota and the Midwest and even Canada, where we brought the word about public mind, and also we organized seven different movie songs for the movie Red Gold, which is an awesome documentary. So I wanted to share that movie with the people of the Midwest and let them know what really is in Alaska and the beauty of it all. When you came back and were spreading the word that way, did you get a lot of resonance? Did a lot of people respond to it? Or was it just a case of, well, it's not in my backyard, so I don't care? I think that we had a lot of responses. A lot of it was actually what you had mentioned a little bit earlier. They kind of said, "Well, we have similar mining issues happening here in Wisconsin." And, you know, there was just the same kind of feeling of, "We love the area we live, and we know how valuable these resources are, and we know how fragile the ecosystems are, and we know that mining is not going to help these great big mining operations that are being proposed, and obviously they're still there, but still, at a smaller scale, I know all of it was Thompson too. So there was a lot of camaraderies, you know, just putting those issues together, and there was a lot of compassion for what we were doing. And there was also a lot of people, believe it or not, who had either lived in Alaska, even some people came to our events that had just been just obeyed. I understand that musicians united that they were your primary sponsor for the Iditarod, and this is a big production, so you need sponsors. Could you have made more money if only you'd sold out for despoiling the environment? That's a good question, I have no idea. If I could have bought, there was a few people early on, and I did start this campaign, and I did decide that I was going to run, I did a lot, and needed to raise roughly $20,000. It was my original goal, and they said, "Well, you know, you've been doing this, no problem, mine, they're both a big campaign, but I think you should drop it, because you're probably going to be able to get more money from the oil companies, whatnot, and that those are some of the main funders around this area." Some folks suggested that I take that route, go where there might be more obvious money, and then drop the political issues that I've been working on, and I really didn't want to do that. At that point, it was early August of last year, and it was salmon stock, and salmon stock is a music festival that is all about celebrating the salmon and about the bubble mine, about getting the word out, you know, after, and it's a music festival that brings people from all over the country. That's where I met Saigon, and I had a little booth, and I had a song from teachers, and just, you know, talking about Iditarod a little bit, and I met him, and he was so excited about the possibilities of, you know, incorporating the Save Bristol Bay campaign with Iditarod, and he wanted to be in on it right away. So, he was with his group, Musicians United to protect Bristol Bay, and did some fundraising online and whatnot, and they ended up being my main sponsors. Yeah, they sponsored $8,000, which was a huge chunk of change, and I couldn't believe it really, that I was able to get, usually you might get one or $2,000 from people here and there, and some organizations and companies, but that was a big one. So, we were really involved in the whole process, and then Saigon came up for the race, and it was one of his lifelong dreams to be able to see the Iditarod, so it really worked out really beautifully. I actually felt that Musicians for Bristol Bay, I think that it got a lot of people just passionate about the environment, passionate about dogs, it really was a great attention grabber, and that was one of the reasons that I wanted to much more cause in the first place, is because as a Musician, you're taking a lot, you have to ask for money a lot, because there's obviously no way to have a full-time job, and be able to manage a terminal of $50, and be able to train them properly, and also be able to just get all your equipment together. It is so intense, and the training takes $8 a day, months before the race. Anyway, so what I'm saying is, I wanted to much more cause, because I didn't want to just be taking from people, I wanted to be able to give something back. So I wanted Musician to be a way to write a word about this issue, and so I felt that that was a way to be able to give something back, to the land, to the state of Alaska, to the people of Alaska, that was my major inspiration for Musician for Bristol Bay. Well, you're clearly world-class in terms of your work, your motivation, your dedication, wow, just so impressive. I'm very pleased to know that there's a Wisconsinite up there on the scene making a difference for Bristol Bay. The good news, of course, this past week that the other investors pulled out, so I think that it must be because of you that that happened, because if Monica's mushing for Bristol Bay, no way we can fight her. I love that. I really like to think that I did maybe have a small part to do with, but we had some tail pulling out, and the funny story behind that was the trip that kicked all this off that I was telling you about in 2012 down to the Midwest with a tour of studying the word about Bristol Bay, we also incorporated some dog racers into that tour. So we went to the UT 200 in Marquette, Michigan, once you know it, the main sponsor of that race was Rio Tinto. So we had the opportunity to put ourselves out there, and we were really decorated, and at the awards ceremony, we invited everybody to come to our presentation and movie show, and we represented it from Rio Tinto's did show up. We watched the Red Gold movie, and we had a little bit of a conversation about it, and he was really kind, and he wasn't mad about what we were doing in any way, and you know, as far as a personal view was it, yeah, this is not a good idea to totally jeopardize this massive salmon run. I thought that that was huge in kind of getting right to the source. So I know for at least the past year, Rio Tinto has been talking about withdrawing in one way, and they finally did it. So I'm sure it's difficult to come to that decision with only a million dollars on the line, but they finally did it. So I did feel like that we maybe did have a little bit of something to do with that. And the fact that they did it after I did it, after I was out there continuing to bring this cause, maybe to a larger international scale, you never know. That could have saved their decision. And having gotten to know you now, I'm sure it did. Really, I'm so impressed with your work. I moved by your effort, your dedication. Thank you so much for being that kind of witness, and thanks for joining me for Spirit in Action. Yeah, well, thank you for all the kind words, and I hope you get back to Wisconsin one day and enjoy the amazing outdoors that are there too. We're going to end this interview with Monica with a song that Saikon wrote for her. It's called "Mushing the Bristol Bay." What's that covered around the mountain? ♪ Kicking up snow in their tracks ♪ ♪ It's Monica Zappa and her team of uskies ♪ ♪ They're running and they won't turn back ♪ ♪ Out on the idea of trail ♪ ♪ The dogs are pulling on the lines ♪ ♪ A strong young woman stands on the runners ♪ ♪ Mushing to stop the pebble mind ♪ ♪ A cold woman rises at the edge of the world ♪ ♪ The sky has nothing more to say ♪ ♪ No sound to be heard but the creaking of the snow ♪ ♪ Mushing to save Bristol Bay ♪ ♪ Mushing to save Bristol Bay ♪ ♪ It's 20 degrees below zero ♪ ♪ That's your bottom dollar that's cold ♪ ♪ We're running up the frozen Yukon River ♪ ♪ And I hope that the ice will hold ♪ ♪ Out on the idea of trail ♪ ♪ The dogs are pulling on the lines ♪ ♪ A strong young woman stands on the runners ♪ ♪ Mushing to stop the pebble mind ♪ ♪ A cold woman rises at the edge of the world ♪ ♪ The sky has nothing more to say ♪ ♪ No sound to be heard but the creaking of the snow ♪ ♪ Mushing to save Bristol Bay ♪ ♪ Mushing to save Bristol Bay ♪ ♪ We'll race from Little to White Mountain ♪ ♪ We'll run from White Mountain to Nome ♪ ♪ Our courage will take us there safely ♪ ♪ Like the salmon we'll find our way home ♪ ♪ Out on the idea of trail ♪ ♪ The dogs are pulling on the lines ♪ ♪ A strong young woman stands on the runners ♪ ♪ Mushing to stop the pebble mind ♪ ♪ A cold woman rises at the edge of the world ♪ ♪ The sky has nothing more to say ♪ ♪ No sound to be heard but the creaking of the snow ♪ ♪ Mushing to save Bristol Bay ♪ ♪ Mushing to save Bristol Bay ♪ ♪ Mushing to save Bristol Bay ♪ ♪ Mushing for Bristol Bay by Saicon ♪ ♪ Off of a recent CD by Saicon called Bristol Bay ♪ ♪ Remember that there will be bonus excerpts of these interviews ♪ ♪ That I can't fit in this broadcast ♪ ♪ And you'll find them at northernspiritradio.org ♪ ♪ Saicon connected me up with Monica Zappa ♪ ♪ Who is the musher in the song we just heard ♪ ♪ And now we go to one more person very involved in the struggle to protect Bristol Bay from the pebble mind ♪ ♪ He serves in the Alaskan state legislature ♪ ♪ Bryce Edgman is squeezing in a call in the midst of the super busy end of legislative session in Juneau, Alaska ♪ ♪ Bryce, I'm thankful you could join me today for spirit in action ♪ Yes, it's my great pleasure to be here. How involved is the state senate and the House of Representatives and the governor? How involved are they in decisions about what's happening with respect to Bristol Bay? Well, it's an interesting question because Alaska, first and foremost, is a resource development state. And second of all, we have many legislators who reside in the middle part of the state where the brunt of the business community comes from. And so you have legislators who are very much interested in the pebble project going forward regardless. And then you have other legislators, particularly those representing the small communities in Alaska, perhaps along the coast or off away from the center of the state to Anchorage and Fairbanks and so forth. That are more conscious about the renewable resources side of things. So I would say it's very much mixed here in the legislature. But again, we're a conservative leading state. We do have a lot of, I would say, probably a predominance of pro-development legislators. And, you know, if the issue were to come to an up-and-down vote, then any matter, which, at this point, it really isn't a need to do that, it would probably be in favor of development over any type of conservation effort. I just end up finding it kind of humorous when those who are supposed to be conservatives aren't interested in conserving. What are your viewpoints on Bristol Bay? Well, I'm born and raped in Bristol Bay. I was born in the town that I live in called Dillingtown, Alaska, all about 2,500 people or so. You can picture where the pollution chains intersect with the mainline of Alaska right in that corner of the southwest part of the state is where I'm from. And it also encapsulates the legislative district that I represent. But to me, the pebble is more than, and I argue this with a lot of my peers here in the legislature, it's more than just a resource development issue. It's a matter that is so complicated and so above the understanding of even our best policymakers in terms of our resource development agencies, that it's something that should be set aside and looked at more in a longer-term perspective. And I think we've made some progress in convincing people about that, but we still have a way to go with others. I understand that you used to be a fisherman, and that's how you made your living for some years. I was a die-hard fisherman for many years, and what I lived and breathed for was getting on the boat in Bristol Bay. And fishing is hard and is fast and is long, and spending the entire summer out there catching fish in. I don't do it anymore, but I think about it all the time, and I certainly can relate to the importance of the fishing industry. The commercial onto things is a fisherman, but also to our first people, the Alaska native, who depend on the fish for the subsistence or the cultural way of life. And so preserving the fish in the Bristol Bay area is just absolutely critically important going forward. Is your viewpoint common amongst people who are fishing? So is this a difference in terms of livelihood, I guess? Well, I think it absolutely is. And, you know, to get out to Bristol Bay or any of the other remote communities in Alaska, you have to fly out there. So you have to take our two-hour plane ride, or perhaps even more. A lot of my colleagues here in the legislature have never been in Bristol Bay. They don't know about the value of the largest sockeye salmon fishery on the globe, and they don't know about the pristine nature of the watershed out there, or the fragile nature of all these rivers and streams and lakes and water bodies that somehow, through some miracle from above or wherever it might be, every year produces just as record amounts of salmon that, again, provide everything from the commercial livelihood to inputting food on people's tables. And as a objective viewpoint as you can provide, is it very clear that if this mine were to go through, that it would be very damaging to the salmon production? You know, I think it is, but the trick is just to get them to seat up close and to get informed about putting a mind of this scale and of this size right virtually in the middle of this very productive watershed area would do over any period of time. It would not only physically destroy the area, and I think that's been documented many times over. But in terms of our ability, you know, as Alaskans, we would pride ourselves on being able to brag about the wild, untainted quality of our seafood products and everything up here in Alaska. By all, if you were to have this great big poisonous mine with tailings, ponds, and other material akin to battery acid right here next to these rivers and streams producing salmon, if they were still producing, we wouldn't be able to say that for the Bristol Bay salmon fishery. So the region would no longer exist. The character, the heritage pride that we take in being who we are. By the way, I am part of the Alaskan native, so I say this certainly with conviction. All that would simply go away. I don't think the region would be any but a bunch of ghost towns, maybe summertime fish camps or places where the seafood processors operated out of, but the spirit of the whole area would simply just vanish. You know, you don't need to just talk to me to know that, go out there and talk to anybody on the street, you hear the same message, anybody who's ever lived out in the region would say the same thing. Once you get people to look at that and they get the opportunity to go out there, they see the picture for themselves, they begin to get it. So we've been able to really, you know, convert some folks here in the legislature and keep working on it. At this point, it's looking pretty good, at least in the short run. It looks like the investors are not there for the mines. Did you have a role in this that you know of when you're in the minority in legislature? Sometimes it can feel, imagine, a bit powerless. How has it felt to you and do you think you've been able to make a difference? Well, I've never felt powerless regarding this issue because I always knew that I had the facts if you were on my side. I've always approached it with a lot of diplomacy because again, there's a lot of legislators here who needed more than one or two sessions to sit down and kind of learn about what really was happening. You know, my role overall, I'm 30 modest. I would say that I've played some role along the way because I have focused on the issue as a legislator. I've had many personal, many group conversations. So I wouldn't characterize myself as having a driving influence in the whole thing. But a long way, I think I've been able to do my part as small as it might have been. I understand that you have guitars in your office. I was told this by Saigon and so I know it must be true. Have you written any great songs like Saigon has that have swayed the population? Well, I have written several songs about Pebble. And I actually might have been maybe the first person ever who wrote an anti-Pevil song. I wrote it back in 2005. Song builds around the refrain. Well, our children's children ask about the time, what was it like before they built the mind? I guess you asked a moment ago if I had any role. And I know when I first played the song at a couple of coffee houses out in Bristol Bay, a lot of people were listening. And a lot of people were nodding their heads and shaking my hand afterwards and saying, really, you know, glad you wrote that song. I'm glad you helped us better understand the significance of all this. Well, Bryce, how would you feel? Is it okay if I share that song with our listeners? I'd be delighted. I've been a musician for many years. I've written a number of CDs of original music. I don't claim to be great at anything I do, but the song, it's a very personal song. Every time I've played it for anybody, it has really been a song that connected with them. And so I'd be delighted if you could do that. I'll be very happy to share with our listeners our children's children. It's by Bryce Edgman. He serves in the House of Representatives in the state of Alaska. He's been with us sharing here today for spirit and action. In the movement to protect Bristol Bay from the Pebble Mine. That's good work and good music. Thank you for sharing both of them with us and taking this time today, especially at the end of your busy legislative session, to spend time with us today for spirit and action. Thank you so much, Bryce. Thank you, Mark. It's been a real pleasure. It might be a guest on your show. Go to nerdinspiritradio.org for bonus excerpts from this interview with Si Khan, Suzanne Little, Monica Zappa, and finally, Bryce Edgman. We'll end today's program with Bryce's song, "Our Children's Children." We'll see you next week for spirit in action. ♪ ♪ I've always been careful minding my way ♪ ♪ Standing in the shadows while yours had their say ♪ ♪ But I cannot hold silent anymore ♪ ♪ For if they build that mine there's no telling what's in store ♪ ♪ In my younger days how the wild winds blew ♪ ♪ I had to be near the edge to feel the river coming through ♪ ♪ But I'm older now and as I look around ♪ ♪ I know that someday I'll be part of this ground ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ She glimmers like jewelry on this fine day ♪ ♪ Sparkling in her colors that lift as it sway ♪ ♪ Alone in a wilderness she will not disclose ♪ ♪ But there's something that her solitude tells me that she knows ♪ ♪ So here I'm standing, knowing down deep ♪ ♪ Far below the tundra, sob beneath my feet ♪ ♪ Well my children's children ask about the time ♪ ♪ What was it like before they built the mine ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Well my children's children ask about the time ♪ ♪ What was it like before they built the mine ♪ The theme music for this program is "Turning of the World" performed by Sarah Thompson. This Spirit in Action program is an effort of Northern Spirit Radio. You can listen to our programs and find links and information about us and our guests on our website, northernspiritradio.org. Thank you for listening. I am your host, Mark Helpsmeet, and I welcome your comments and stories of those leading lives of spiritual fruit. May you find deep roots to support you and grow steadily toward the light. This is Spirit in Action. With every voice, with every song, we will move this world along. With every voice, with every song, we will move this world along. And our lives will feel the echo of our healing. You
Musicians United to Protect Bristol Bay have been spreading the call to step forward for the well-being of the people and way of life threatened by the proposed Pebble Mine of the coast next to Alaska's Bristol Bay. It's a hopeful time as we speak to several defenders of the land - musician Si Kahn, former Alaskan State Senator, Suzanne Little, dog-musher Monica Zappa, & Alaskan Representative, Bryce Edgmon.