Spirit in Action
I Ain't Marching Anymore - A Sister's Tribute to Phil Ochs
Sonny Ochs, sister to folk legend Phil Ochs, has helped carry forward the powerful legacy of Phil's music. On almost every topic - war, prejudice, immigration, etc - the songs are as meaningful today as back in the 60-70's. Just released, the documentary, Phil Ochs: There But For Fortune.
- Broadcast on:
- 25 Mar 2012
- Audio Format:
- other
(upbeat music) ♪ Let us sing this song for the healing of the world ♪ ♪ That we may hear as one ♪ ♪ With every voice, with every song ♪ ♪ We will move this world along ♪ ♪ And our lives will feel the echo of our healing ♪ - Welcome to Spirit in Action. My name is Mark helps me. Each week, I'll be bringing you stories of people living lives of fruitful service, of peace, community, compassion, creative action, and progressive efforts. I'll be tracing the spiritual roots that support and nourish them in their service, hoping to inspire and encourage you to sink deep roots and produce sacred food in your own life. ♪ Let us sing this song for the dreaming of the world ♪ ♪ That we may dream as one ♪ ♪ With every voice, with every song ♪ ♪ We will move this world along ♪ - For today's Spirit in Action, we'll be traveling to rural upstate New York, to the home of Sunny Oaks, as in the sister of folk musician, Phil Oaks. Through the 1960s and halfway through the 1970s, Phil produced a wealth of musical commentary on the issues of the day. Things like prejudice, war, immigration, international relations. In other words, the same issues that absorb us today. Given that Phil Oaks took his own life in 1976, we can't interview him, but we can talk to his sister, Sunny Oaks. Sunny has been carrying forth Phil's musical legacy, still stoking the fires of those passionately working to make this country as beautiful and as noble a nation as it can possibly be. One more note, this program originates in Wisconsin, and I imagine that you've been seeing a bit more of Wisconsin in the news than you're used to. What with the tens of thousands of people gathering in our state capital every day to protest Governor Walker's plans to decimate workers' rights and unions in this state. As I think of Phil Oaks and all the energy he supplied to the activists of the 1960s, I hope and I pray that we can draw on that same deep well of heart and hope to face injustice and greed today. And with that intention, let's talk to Sunny Oaks, sister of Phil Oaks, over in New York. Sunny, I'm really pleased to have you here today with me for spirit in action. - It's my pleasure to be here, Mark. - Do you spend a lot of time doing interviews and doing your radio show, all of this? Are you just constantly busy with this kind of thing? - It kind of comes and goes, sometimes yes, sometimes no. Right now it's very busy because of the documentaries that my brother just came out, and all of a sudden it is all kinds of interest. I'm hearing from people I haven't heard from in 30, 40 years. It's unbelievable. People are coming out of the woodwork and I'm really enjoying it. - What led to the documentary being created right now? I mean, your brother's been gone for 36 years now, 37 years coming up on. Why the resurgence of interest, why I document it now? - That's a good question. I actually had nothing to do with the documentary and its progress because my other brother, Michael was the one who was doing that. So I didn't get to really take part in it. But from what I understand, it took 20 years. They evidently got this idea 20 years ago. He and a producer of Ken Bowser, who was the one who actually produced it. But there was a, I guess, a financial problem. And all of a sudden they finally found an angel recently. So they're able to move forward with the idea that's been formulating for 20 years. - And what's the purpose of the documentary? What's the objective of it? Phil Oaks was a standard for many people who were activists back in the '60s and '70s. And after that, what's the thrust of the documentary? 'Cause I haven't seen it yet. I'm out here in Wisconsin and it doesn't trickle here that quickly. - The documentary basically is showing Phil's life and the times in which he lived. And it's very well done because it doesn't try to hide the blemishes. It's a very honest portrait of who Phil was. I mean, he was a great writer. He was a great, he had such a wick, such a sense of humor that was incredible. And such an ability to write beautiful songs. But he also had problems. He was manic depressive. He became a heavy drinker in his later years. Not that there was that lady died in the '30s. But as he went on, the manic depression kind of took over. So all of this is shown in the movie. They don't try to cover it up. It's there, it's very raw. - I think of him as an activist. Is that how he started out? I mean, folk music to some degree included, at least at that period, a strong note of activism. Was that what got him into the music or did the music get him into activism? - I think the time's gotten into activism. The time's gotten into writing about the injustices that he saw. And then as a result, he started really checking things out. He went down to Kentucky to see what the minors were dealing with. He went down on a lot of the marches in Washington. He went down in the south in 1964 during the heavy voter registration summer that they had. There was actually a caravan of folk performers from the city, from New York City, who went down to be a part of that. They were fighting the injustices. And it was pretty hard not to get involved if you had any kind of a conscience because we were seeing on television all of the horrible things were being done to people mainly. The whole thing started mainly with the civil rights movement. And when you see people being beaten by policemen and being snapped at by dogs, all of this is on television. And it really made an impact on this country. And a lot of people of conscience went down and were involved. - One of the amazing thing about Phil's music is how much it's persisted. How much those of us who care about these issues still actively sing his songs today. Would you like to give us some of the music may be related to the civil rights era? The stuff that he wrote from his first hand on observations, I think, about that. - Well, we could start with too many martyrs, which because of this awful shooting in Arizona, somebody said that I guess a couple of people have been playing this on their radio shows because the chorus was too many martyrs and too many dead, too many lies, too many empty words were said, too many times for too many angry men or let it never be again. I mean, that isn't enough at the top of this weekend, but I don't know what is. And it was written, of course, about the assassination of mega-revers. But if you take that chorus, it just, to me, it's such a powerful chorus and it really says a lot. In the state of Mississippi, many years ago, a boy of 14 years got a taste of Southern law. He saw his friend to hang in his collar was his crime and the blood upon his jacket put a brand on his mind, too many martyrs and too many dead, too many lies, too many empty words were said, too many times for too many angry men or let it never be again. His name was Medgar Evers and he walked his road alone. Like Emmett Till and thousands more whose names will never know. They tried to burn his home and they beat him to the ground, but deep inside they both knew what it took to bring him down. Too many martyrs and too many dead, too many lies, too many empty words were said, too many times for too many angry men or let it never be again. The killer waited by his home hidden by the night as Evers stepped out from his car into the rifle sight. He slowly squeezed the trigger, the bullet left his side. It struck the heart of every man whenever his felon died, too many martyrs and too many dead, too many lies, too many empty words were said, too many times for too many angry men, who let it never be again. And they laid him in his grave while the bugle sounded clear, laid him in his grave when the victory was near. While we waited for the future for freedom through the land, the country gained a killer and the country lost a man, too many martyrs and too many dead, too many lies, too many empty words were said, too many times for too many angry men, who let it never be again, who let it never be again. That was Too Many Martyrs, it's by Phil Oakes. Interestingly, the music was written by Bob Gibson, who lived in Chicago, he and Phil wrote a lot of songs, very often Bob would be melody and Phil would do a word in that case in point. - We are speaking with Phil Oakes' sister, Sunny Oakes, and she's out in New York somewhere, somewhere upstate is what I understand, a kind of a, you've been nurturing a community up there of artists and musicians and the like, I've just interviewed your neighbors, known as Magpie. - Sunny, are you the little sister of the big sister? Where do you and Mike and Phil all fit in? - I am the oldest, filled with a middle child, four things, and Michael with the baby. - You've been strongly carrying on his music ever since. It's so applicable, just like you mentioned with that song, Too Many Martyrs. Unfortunately, the end of the chorus is, may it never come again, may it never be again, and yet, of course, it does keep coming back. We need these songs to remind us to keep us working on these things. You obviously could have your own life separate of your brother's music. You've chosen to carry the song. Talk a little bit about that. - Okay, well, in the early 1980s, I attended a party that was given to celebrate the completion of a docu-drama that was done about Phil back in those days by a guy named Michael Carlenko at the celebration party. I met a young man named Jim Price who had a radio show in W.F.N.U. in East Orange, New Jersey. He said he wanted to do a special doc, Phil, which he came out to my house and interviewed me for three hours, and invited me to come on his show in place on my favorite records. And that, to me, was so exciting 'cause I hadn't really been involved in that level. Long story short, I ended up having a regular show on his show, I had the first Monday of every month, and I was there for five and a half years at W.F.N.U. Through that, I got involved with People's Music Network, which is an incredible organization of political musicians, which meets twice annually. Once, in the winter, at varying cities, and once in the summer at a camp here in New York State, I was through People's Music Network that I met, said small and Charlie King and Pat Humphries, and Betsy Rose, and just a whole bunch of really incredible political writers. Also in the early '80s, because I was getting known by people in the political world, I was asked if I was interested in having a night of Phil's songs at the place called The Speake Easy in the Greenwich Village, and I said, "Yeah, that would be fun. "That was 1983. "Well, I've been doing it every year since then, "and it's become known as the Philoque song night. "You usually do it least exactly a year, sometimes more, "and it started out once a year, as I said in New York, "and then it moved to Stephen Boston and all over the place. "We've been to the Midwest. "We've been to Wisconsin three or four times, "and then we did a far west tour. "We've been up in Canada, "and all this fine singing Phil's songs. "I have a core group who travels with me." As you mentioned, Meg Pi, also Kim and Reggie Harris, Greg Greenway, John Flynn, Pat Wichter, has joined us fairly recently. Joe Chang has been involved, David Roth. Pat Humphrey is used to, which he's kind of dropped out when she moved to BC. But the point is that I have these people all over who are singing Phil's songs and recording them, and the frightening thing to us is that they are, all, well many of them, are still relevant, and that shouldn't be. I mean, he was writing these 40 years ago. - Well, could you give us another one that you feel is particularly relevant today? - Relevant today, okay. Yes, if you can't get more relevant than this, this summarize at a camp where it was a humanitarian camp, but they did a Philoque concert on the Wednesday night, and one of the people who is involved in the camp is a woman from Florida named Amy Carroll Webb. Amy Carroll Webb took the song "Bracero," which was written way back when, and added one verse to it, but just knocked everybody's socks off. It's on YouTube, actually. You can find it there. Amy Carroll Webb doing "Bracero," her additional verse had to do with Arizona, and a quick course that she put on the end was "Welcome to Arizona," with a local sheriff who'll take care of you. And if you hear the song, you'll understand how that fits in, unbelievable. ♪ Went into the river ♪ ♪ Through the rippling, shadow waters ♪ ♪ Still across the thirsty border ♪ ♪ To settle ♪ ♪ Come bring your hungry body ♪ ♪ Through the golden field of plenty ♪ ♪ From a peso to a penny ♪ ♪ Through the saddle ♪ ♪ Oh, welcome ♪ ♪ To California ♪ ♪ Where the friendly farmers ♪ ♪ Will take care of you ♪ ♪ Come labor for your mother ♪ ♪ For your father and your brother ♪ ♪ For your sisters and your lovers ♪ ♪ Through the saddle ♪ ♪ Come take the fruits of yellow ♪ ♪ Bring the flowers from the berries ♪ ♪ Purple grapes will fill your belly ♪ ♪ Through the saddle ♪ ♪ Welcome ♪ ♪ To California ♪ ♪ Where the friendly farmers ♪ ♪ Will take care of you ♪ ♪ And the sun will bite your body ♪ ♪ As the dust will dry at thirsty ♪ ♪ While your muscles beg for mercy ♪ ♪ Through the saddle ♪ ♪ In the shade of your sombrero ♪ ♪ Drop your sweat upon the soil ♪ ♪ Like the fruit your youth can spoil ♪ ♪ Through the saddle ♪ ♪ Welcome ♪ ♪ To California ♪ ♪ Where the friendly farmers ♪ ♪ Will take care of you ♪ ♪ When the weary night embraces ♪ ♪ So we bend shocks that could be cages ♪ ♪ They will take it from your wages ♪ ♪ To the saddle ♪ ♪ Come sing about tomorrow ♪ ♪ With a jingle of the daughters ♪ ♪ And forget your crooked colors ♪ ♪ To saddle ♪ ♪ Welcome ♪ ♪ To California ♪ ♪ Where the friendly farmers ♪ ♪ Will take care of you ♪ ♪ And the local men are lazy ♪ ♪ And they make too much of trouble ♪ ♪ Besides we'd have to pay them doubles ♪ ♪ Through the saddle ♪ ♪ But if you feel your folly ♪ ♪ If you find the pace is killing ♪ ♪ There are others who are willing ♪ ♪ To saddle ♪ ♪ Welcome ♪ ♪ To California ♪ ♪ Where the friendly farmers ♪ ♪ Will take care of you ♪ (audience applauds) - You're listening to the music of Phil Oaks today. That was Ross Sarrow. And we have with us here today Phil Oaks older sister. That is to say the wiser one in the family. Her name is Sunny Oaks. Is she sharing with us the music that speaks of the work that Phil Oaks was advocating back then, '60s and '70s, and which is still so very applicable today. Obviously the immigration issues, the way that we think of these foreigners coming into our country. To me it's when I hear these debates about immigration, it is amazing how much some people just do not recognize the way we really use and maybe abuse these immigrants for our own benefit. - And also it just drives me nuts. We are all immigrants except the Native Americans. - I understand they were immigrants at one point too. - I'm just gonna say, are they integrated over from Asia? I mean to say that we sang, when I was in high school we sang at our graduation. The song "Give Me Your Tired Your Poor." And that's from what's written on the base of the Statue of Liberty in Ellis Island. And you just turned our back now. Now that we're here, we don't wanna share the heck with everybody else. We've got ours and that's so wrong. That is so wrong. - Of course Phil was really good at honing in on what was wrong and what needed to be addressed. And he did, sometimes with humor. - Yes, as a matter of fact, that makes me think of something very important. He was very often write songs about individuals. He had a song about a prisoner named Paul Crump, who was slated for the electric chair and finally the governor of Illinois commuted the electric chair, he changed it and made me a life sentence instead. And I was curious, the other day I went on Google and I looked him up and Paul Crump is still alive and he served 40 years. And I guess fairly recently they finally let him go and he's living with his sister, but he's still alive and Phil wrote a song about him. Not like that was the first song I ever heard him sing on the radio way back then. And then he wrote about, well John Henry Floke, he wrote a song that was called "The Trial." But one of my favorites because of what it did was "The Ballad of William Worthy." Now William Worthy was a reporter for the Baltimore, both more, I've kept a name of the paper, but it was a paper in Baltimore and he had gone down to Cuba, which of course I'm not allowed to do. He came back and was arrested upon his return for entering the country without a passport or some such crazy thing. Phil felt this was so bizarre and he saw the humor in it and he wrote a song called "Ballad of William Worthy." Because of this song, which God sent, which he sang every concert he did back in his days, William Worthy was actually let go finally. When we did a song like 1988 in Boston, unbeknownst to me, I didn't even know this was gonna happen, some of the performers were Magpie and Martha Leder, got up and sang "Ballad of William Worthy." And when they got through singing, William Worthy walked out on stage and got, we had about 700 people in the audience, we had about a five minute standing ovation that people just kept clapping and clapping. And he got up there and he told how important this particular song was, how it had really affected the outcome of his trial. I guess Robert Kennedy who was then the Attorney General was going after him, the government lost the case and they didn't do an appeal, which is almost automatic. They just realized how silly they were looking and they just let it drop until William Worthy got off. The power of one song, it's just amazing. - Let's listen to a powerful song, "Ballad of William Worthy," my Philoaks. ♪ It's of a bold reporter, a story I will tell ♪ ♪ He went down to the Cuban land, the nearest place to hell ♪ ♪ He'd been there many times before but now the law to say ♪ ♪ The only way to Cuba is with the CIA ♪ ♪ William Worthy isn't worthy to enter our door ♪ ♪ He went down to Cuba, he's not American anymore ♪ ♪ But somehow it is strange to hear the State Department say ♪ ♪ You are living in the free world in the free world ♪ ♪ You must stay ♪ ♪ $5,000 or a five-year sentence may well be ♪ ♪ For a man who had the nerve to think that traveling is free ♪ ♪ He should have listened closer when he heard the experts say ♪ ♪ This modern world is getting so much smaller every day ♪ ♪ William Worthy isn't worthy to enter our door ♪ ♪ Went down to Cuba, he's not American anymore ♪ ♪ But somehow it is strange to hear the State Department say ♪ ♪ You are living in the free world in the free world ♪ ♪ You must stay ♪ ♪ So come all you good travelers and fellow travelers too ♪ ♪ And travel all around the world, see every country through ♪ ♪ I'd surely like to come along and see what may be new ♪ ♪ But my passports disappearing as I sing these words to you ♪ ♪ William Worthy isn't worthy to enter our door ♪ ♪ Went down to Cuba, he's not American anymore ♪ ♪ But somehow it is strange to hear the State Department say ♪ ♪ You are living in the free world in the free world ♪ ♪ You must stay ♪ ♪ Well, there really is no need to travel to these evil lands ♪ ♪ And though the list grows larger, you must try to understand ♪ ♪ And try hard not to worry if someday you should hear ♪ ♪ The whole world is off limits, visit Disneyland this year ♪ ♪ William Worthy isn't worthy to enter our door ♪ ♪ Went down to Cuba, he's not American anymore ♪ ♪ But somehow it is strange to hear the State Department say ♪ ♪ You are living in the free world in the free world ♪ ♪ You must stay ♪ - Another gem from Phil Oaks. We have his sister here with us today, and Ballad of William Worthy was one of the songs she picked out as influential, as symbolic, I guess, of some of the work that Phil Oaks did in his lifetime and which carries forward. I'll mention, by the way, Sonny, that I was just to Cuba back at the end of October, beginning November. I went legally, I got a license, they call it, from our country, because I was going on a religious venture. So I could get a license to go, though most people still can't. And I am amazed at the immense ignorance that we have on our side, the amount of knowledge we don't have of what happens just 90 miles from us out on that island. And there's no greater friend of war and of hatred than lack of mutual knowledge. - The poetry. - And so it was very useful for me to be there. I saw a horrible economic condition there in, and I don't think it's because of our embargo. They've got some very good trade partners. They just aren't producing enough. It's an inefficient form of running their economy. But they're wonderful people. We had a wonderful experience, and if we dropped the embargo, I have a feeling there would be a change in their economic system, their government. I have a feeling that both countries would prosper under the new friendship. - I agree totally. Well, Phil, we're looking at some of the negatives here, but I'd want to look at a positive now. Song, "Power of the Glory." And it's really funny because it was one of his earlier songs. It's amazing how many of his famous ones he had written already in the first few years of writing, just the stuff just poured out of him. One time my mother and I went to visit him in an apartment in Greenwich Village, and we walked in and he kept playing this sequence of four chords over and over and over again. I did the first four chords of the song, "Power of the Glory," as it turns out. But at that time, he kept playing it and playing it while we were talking to him. He didn't put his guitar down. He kept playing the four chords. And finally, I said, "Phil, what are you doing?" He said, "I'm playing the greatest song I'll ever write." And I said, "Okay, what are the words?" He said, "I haven't written them yet." (laughs) So I said, "How do you know it's going to be the greatest song?" He said, "I just know." And then he went on and he wrote this song. Now, the interesting part two of this story is just a few years ago, maybe five years, six years ago, somebody sent me a tape of songs that Phil had made when he was visiting Wibblestock, New York. He went into a studio there. This was May 8th, 1963. And he laid down a whole bunch of songs on this tape, including "Power and Glory." And it was a verse in there that I had never heard before that he had never recorded. And this was during the Bush years. And of course, my dislike of President Bush was boiling over at that time. And the last verse was just so perfect for our time. And so we've been including it in the song nights. And the last verse, which is not on the recording, is our country is still troubled by those who have to hate. They twist away our freedom. They twist away our fate. Fear is their weapon. And treason is their cry. We can stop them if we try. And I thought, "Wow, that is so powerful." And it's so true today. So as I said, we have been including women all of the song nights. "Power and Glory" by Phil Oaks. ("Power and Glory" by Phil Oaks) ♪ Come on and take a walk with me ♪ ♪ Through this green and growing land ♪ ♪ Walk through the meadows and the mountains and the sand ♪ ♪ Walk through the valleys and the rivers and the plains ♪ ♪ Walk through the sun and walk through the rain ♪ ♪ Fear is a land full of power and glory ♪ ♪ Beauty that words cannot recall ♪ ♪ Over power shall rest on the strength of her freedom ♪ ♪ Glory shall rest on a song ♪ ♪ From Colorado, Kansas and the Carolinas too ♪ ♪ Virginia and Alaska from the old to the new ♪ ♪ Texas and Ohio and the California shore ♪ ♪ Tell me who could ask for more ♪ ♪ Fear is a land full of power and glory ♪ ♪ Beauty that words cannot recall ♪ ♪ Over power shall rest on the strength of her freedom ♪ ♪ Glory shall rest on a song ♪ ♪ Yet she's only as rich as the poorest of the poor ♪ ♪ Only as free as a padlock prison door ♪ ♪ Only as strong as our love for this land ♪ ♪ Only as tall as we stand ♪ ♪ More and here is a land full of power and glory ♪ ♪ Beauty that words cannot recall ♪ ♪ Over power shall rest on the strength of her freedom ♪ ♪ Glory shall rest on a song ♪ ♪ Come on and take a walk with me ♪ ♪ Through this green and growing land ♪ ♪ Walk through the meadows and the mountains and the sand ♪ ♪ Walk through the valleys and the rivers and the plains ♪ ♪ Walk through the sun and walk through the rain ♪ ♪ Here is a land full of power and glory ♪ ♪ Beauty that words cannot recall ♪ ♪ Over power shall rest on the strength of her freedom ♪ ♪ Glory shall rest on a song ♪ ♪ On a song ♪ - One of the finest songs ever written by Phil Oakes, "Power and Glory." And I agree, it should be our national anthem. It really hits all the bases. - I guess who recorded it, way back when. It was recorded by Anita Bryant. - Really? Anita Bryant, famous orange juice woman? - Yes, very anti-gay, very super, super patriotic. And it's on an album called, "Mine Eyes of Fame, the Glory." - One of the things that that song does that makes it so special is it talks about the wonderful character, the potential, the glory that is all around us, and it talks of what we need to do to get there, to make it good. I mean, it's not an inanimate thing, the power and glory. It's something that we have to work at and improve constantly. And Phil, of course, was doing that through his music. - If Phil was accused of being anti-American in this magazine wasn't, Phil was a patriot. Phil grew up watching John Wayne movies and listening to Johnny Cash and Berlin Husky and web peers and all of those country singers and moral haggard. But Phil's thing was, he loved this country, but his thing was, and I agree with him 100%, this is a wonderful country, but it has very large flaws. I mean, if you look at the conditions of some of our people who are living in, even today, and his thing was, yes, it's a great country, let's praise it, but let's fix the things that are wrong, let's make it even better. Let's make it even greater. - It's an obvious condition, you know, if someone is sick, has a disease, they could be a wonderful person, but they've got this disease, you wanna get rid of that growth or that infection or whatever it is, you have to address it, and if you don't address it, it kills the host, and that's what we don't wanna do, of course. So, of course, we have to do the work to improve it. And Phil Oakes' music is just such a great medicine for our country. One of his songs that I hope you'll include, it talks about one of those illnesses of our world, and I think of it, particularly with respect to Iraq, the fact that we felt like we had to go in there and give them democracy, and one of his songs addresses that kind of thing. - Oh, you must be talking about possible world. - Absolutely. - How did I get? That was the one during the Bush era I was saying should be the National Anthem, because it just, I remember the first time I heard 'em saying it, it was at his first Carnegie Hall concert, a place was packed, and we sang that song for the first time, and there were a few middle-aged, middle-class people who were so angered by it that they got up and walked out. It's a pretty brutal song, it's pretty powerful, but it really tells it like it is. (audience applauds) (gentle guitar music) ♪ Come get out of the way boys ♪ ♪ Quick get out of the way ♪ ♪ You'd better watch what you say boy ♪ ♪ Better watch what you say ♪ ♪ We've rammed in your harbor and tied to your port ♪ ♪ And our pistols are hungry and our tempers are short ♪ ♪ So bring your daughters around to the far ♪ ♪ 'Cause we're the cops of the world boys ♪ ♪ We're the cops of the world ♪ ♪ We pick and choose as we please boy ♪ ♪ Pick and choose as we please ♪ ♪ You'd best get down on your knees boy ♪ ♪ Best get down on your knees ♪ ♪ We're hairy and horny and ready to shack ♪ ♪ And we don't care if you're yellow or black ♪ ♪ Just take off your clothes and lay down on your back ♪ ♪ 'Cause we're the cops of the world boys ♪ ♪ We're the cops of the world ♪ ♪ Our boots are kneading a shine boy ♪ ♪ Boots are kneading a shine ♪ ♪ But our Coca-Cola is fine boys ♪ ♪ Coca-Cola is fine ♪ ♪ We've got to protect all our citizens fair ♪ ♪ So we'll send a battalion for everyone there ♪ ♪ And maybe we'll leave in a couple of years ♪ ♪ 'Cause we're the cops of the world boys ♪ ♪ We're the cops of the world ♪ ♪ And dump the reds in a pile boy ♪ ♪ Dump the reds in a pile ♪ ♪ You'd better wipe off that smile boy ♪ ♪ Better wipe off that smile ♪ ♪ We'll spit through the streets of the cities we wreck ♪ ♪ And we'll find you a leader that you can elect ♪ ♪ Those treaties we signed were a pain in the nest ♪ ♪ 'Cause we're the cops of the world boys ♪ ♪ We're the cops of the world ♪ ♪ And clean the johns with a rag boy ♪ ♪ Clean the johns with a rag ♪ ♪ If you like you can use your flag boys ♪ ♪ If you like you can use your flag ♪ ♪ We've got too much money we're looking for toys ♪ ♪ And guns will be guns and boys will be boys ♪ ♪ But we'll gladly pay for all it is true ♪ ♪ 'Cause we're the cops of the world boys ♪ ♪ We're the cops of the world ♪ ♪ Please stay off of the grass boys ♪ ♪ Please stay off of the grass ♪ ♪ Here's a kick in the ass boys ♪ ♪ Here's a kick in the ass ♪ ♪ We'll smash down your doors we don't bother to knock ♪ ♪ We've done it before so I all the shock ♪ ♪ We're the biggest and the toughest kids on the block ♪ ♪ And we're the cops of the world boys ♪ ♪ We're the cops of the world ♪ ♪ And when we butchered your son's boy ♪ ♪ When we butchered your son ♪ ♪ Have a stick of our gum boys ♪ ♪ Have a stick of our bubblegum ♪ ♪ We don't have the world oh say can you see ♪ ♪ And the name for our profits is democracy ♪ ♪ So like it or not you will have to be free ♪ ♪ 'Cause we're the cops of the world boys ♪ ♪ We're the cops of the world ♪ (audience applauding) - Cops of the world, Phil Oakes, and we have his sister, Sunny Oakes, with us here today. Just recently there's a documentary there, but for a fortune that's produced about Phil Oakes, his life, and the times that he was in. Sunny, if I want to see that documentary, how do I go about seeing the whole thing out here in Wisconsin since I can't come to the opening in New York or whatever? - I'm not quite sure we're in the infancy stages evidently, but if you go to my website, which is my name, Sunny Oakes, and Sunny so it was an O, Sunny Oakes.com, in the lower left-hand corner of my home page, there is a trailer about the documentary. And if you click on that trailer up at the top, it says something about where it's showing. And you can click on that, and they'll be adding places to that as a schedule and more and more theaters, and hopefully it'll definitely get out to your area. I'm pretty sure it will. It started in New York on January 5th, and was extended for an extra week because it did so well and had great reviews. And they're going to be showing it up here sort of near where I live twice this month. And then I know it's going to be Santa Monica. I can't remember the whole list, but if you click on, as I said, that trailer, you can find out where it's going to be. And if you do it from time to time, you'll see that it will be expanding rapidly, I would imagine. - Again, the documentary is called There But For Fortune. And we're speaking with Sunny Oakes and Sunny. I just have to ask you, obviously, I think you're a female, and S-O-N-N-Y, why did you get that name? - I know. (laughs) No, when I was in Girl Scout camp at age 10, everybody had to have a nickname. And my real name was Sonya, S-O-N-I-A. And so I just kept the S-O-N and it became, from Sonya, it became Sunny at age 10, and I've kept it ever since. I've never legally changed it, but that's what everybody knows me as. - It's so wonderful that you are still promoting your brother's music and getting it out there, because, as I've said already earlier, it's got such an ability to change us, to fill the pulse of the things that need to be addressed and looked at. - The sad thing is that so much of it is still relevant, and it shouldn't be. And I'll show you, just to give you an example, some of the things that happened at song nights, somebody was singing their but for fortune, and they changed one word, this was a few years ago, and it was, wow, just updating it to right now, this minute, and their but for fortune, the last verse is, show me a country where the bombs at the fall, show me the ruins of the buildings once so tall. And somebody who was saying, show me the ruins of the towers once so tall, and you could just feel people taking in their breath because there it was, you know, 9/11. - I think we better listen to that song. It is both the title of this song and the title of the documentary about the life of Phil Oaks. - And the title of a biography of Phil. - And a title of a biography of Phil, there but for fortune. (gentle music) ♪ Show me a prison ♪ ♪ Show me a gem ♪ ♪ Show me a prison man whose face is growing pale ♪ ♪ And I'll show you a young man ♪ ♪ With many reasons why ♪ ♪ And their but for fortune may go you far ♪ ♪ Show me a rally ♪ ♪ Show me a train ♪ ♪ Show me a hobo ♪ ♪ Oh, sweeps out in the rain ♪ ♪ And I'll show you a young man ♪ ♪ With many reasons why ♪ ♪ And their but for fortune may go you far ♪ ♪ Show me the whiskey ♪ ♪ Stands on the floor ♪ ♪ Show me a drunken man as he scumbles out the door ♪ ♪ And I'll show you a young man ♪ ♪ With many reasons why ♪ ♪ And their but for fortune may go you far ♪ ♪ I'll show you a young man ♪ ♪ Show me the country ♪ ♪ Where the bombs had to fall ♪ ♪ Show me the ruins of the buildings ♪ ♪ One so tall ♪ ♪ And I'll show you a young man ♪ ♪ With so many reasons why ♪ ♪ And their but for fortune may go you far ♪ ♪ All right ♪ (audience applauds) - A sad but continuously relevant song about the places our country goes and which it'll take our work and it will take our dedication to not go. So it's there but for fortune is where we go. I think that we have time now just for one more song and I hope you've got a real humdinger for us. - I have more than a humdinger. I have Phil Anthem. I have the song that Phil sang at all of the rallies that he attended, including in Chicago and in Washington. Everywhere he went he sang this song. It became sort of his signature song. And I've had plenty over the years. I've met so many people. I've met so many veterans and so many of the Vietnam vets are telling me that they actually sang this song when they were over in Vietnam. I just can't imagine it but I've been told it's more than once so it must be true. The thing that's interesting again with the song that's changing things in such a tiny way. One of his bridge in this song is it's always the old who lead us to the war, always the young who fall. Well, somebody at one of the song I'd started singing and we still use it now. It's always the rich who lead us to the war. It's always the poor who fall. And it's so true and it's so sad and that's what makes this song even more powerful. It's just why do we keep doing this? Why are we still fighting ridiculous wars? Unfortunately, the song is still necessary. Maybe someday we'll wake up and realize that we don't have to keep fighting like we're fighting. ♪ Oh, I march to the battle of new Orleans ♪ ♪ At the end of the early British wars ♪ ♪ The young land started growing ♪ ♪ The young blood started flowing ♪ ♪ But I ain't a martian anymore ♪ ♪ Where I killed Mr. Vengeance in a thousand different fights ♪ ♪ I was there at the Little Big Horn ♪ ♪ I heard many men lie and I saw many more ♪ ♪ And I ain't a martian anymore ♪ ♪ It's always the old who lead us to the wars ♪ ♪ Always the young to fall ♪ ♪ Now lookin' away what with the saber and the gun ♪ ♪ Tell me is it worth it all ♪ ♪ For I stole California from the Mexican land ♪ ♪ Bought in the bloody civil war ♪ ♪ Yes, I even killed my brothers and so many others ♪ ♪ But I ain't a martian anymore ♪ ♪ Where I marched to the battles of the German trench in a war ♪ ♪ That was bound to end all wars ♪ ♪ Oh, I must have killed a million men ♪ ♪ And now they want me back again ♪ ♪ But I ain't a martian anymore ♪ ♪ It's always the old who lead us to the wars ♪ ♪ Always the young to fall ♪ ♪ Now lookin' away what with the saber and the gun ♪ ♪ Tell me is it worth it all ♪ ♪ For I flew the final mission in the Japanese skies ♪ ♪ That off the mighty mushroom roar ♪ ♪ When I saw the city's burnin' ♪ ♪ I knew that I was learnin' that I ain't a martian anymore ♪ ♪ Now the labor leaders screamin' when they close a missile plan ♪ ♪ United Fruit screams at the Cuban shore ♪ ♪ Call it peace or call it treason ♪ ♪ Call it lover, call it reason ♪ ♪ But I ain't a martian anymore ♪ ♪ I ain't a martian anymore ♪ - I ain't martian anymore, Phil Oakes, his anthem. And I was wondering about that, Sonny. Did he actually face the draft? Did he have to deal with that issue personally? - No, there were ways out of the draft back then that people don't even remember. If you were married and had a kid, you didn't have to go. And Phil was married and had a kid, so he didn't have to go, so he was not facing it. - At least at a certain stage, those deferments got eliminated as the war went on. - Yeah, but in the beginning, mostly only poor people went there 'cause if you were, if you were in college, you didn't have to go. If you were working at a defense point, you didn't have to go if you were a teacher. Amazing how many of them then became teachers all of a sudden. It did do a good thing for the education system, which used to be just totally female or mainly female. And all of a sudden all these young men decided they were gonna become teachers and it was really to avoid the draft. But it really did change the nature of schools. And now there are so many male teachers. And it's a good thing because the kids get male role models which they hadn't had before. - Maybe that's why the numbers are so skewed these days. 60% of college attendees now are female and only 40% male. And maybe we need a draft to balance that out. Phil wrote so many good, relevant, powerful songs. I'm so thankful, Sunny, that you're carrying on his legacy and keeping things boiling. Thanks so much for joining me for spirit and action. - Thank you so much for inviting me to join you. It's an apportion. - And I do want to refer people to another Phil Songs, draft-dodger-rag, which is something of a primer on the varieties of deferments and exemptions from the draft back in the 1960s. Unfortunately, should the current draft law be activated, it will be much harder to follow one's conscience because the deferments and the exemptions are much more limited and the standards are much more demanding than in the good old days. But today, let's go out for this spirit and action program with a happy reminder of the fun of the 1960s draft with Phil Oak Song, draft-dodger-rag. ♪ Oh, I'm just a typical American boy ♪ ♪ From a typical American town ♪ ♪ I believe in God and Senator Dodd ♪ ♪ And I keep an old cast row down ♪ ♪ And when it came my time to serve ♪ ♪ I knew better, dead than red ♪ ♪ But when I got to my old draft board body ♪ ♪ This is what I said ♪ ♪ Sarge, I'm only 18 ♪ ♪ I got a ruptured spleen I'd always carry a purse ♪ ♪ I've got eyes like a bat ♪ ♪ And my feet are flat ♪ ♪ And my asthma's getting worse ♪ ♪ Yes, think of my career ♪ ♪ My sweetheart dear ♪ ♪ My poor old invalidant ♪ ♪ Besides ain't no fool ♪ ♪ I'm a go into school ♪ ♪ And I'm a workin' in a defense plant ♪ ♪ I got a dislocated disc and a rack dump ♪ ♪ Back I'm allergic to flowers and bugs ♪ ♪ And when the bombshell hits ♪ ♪ I get epileptic fits ♪ ♪ And I'm addicted to a thousand drugs ♪ ♪ I got the weakness woes ♪ ♪ I can't touch my toes ♪ ♪ I can hardly reach my knees ♪ ♪ And if the enemy came close to me ♪ ♪ I'd probably start to sneeze ♪ ♪ I'm only 18 ♪ ♪ Got a ruptured spleen I'd always carry a purse ♪ ♪ I've got eyes like a bat ♪ ♪ And my feet are flat ♪ ♪ And my asthma's getting worse ♪ ♪ Yes, think of my career ♪ ♪ My sweetheart dear ♪ ♪ My poor old invalidant ♪ ♪ Besides ain't no fool ♪ ♪ I'm a goin' to school ♪ ♪ And I'm a workin' and a defense plant ♪ ♪ Ooh, it's showin' line ♪ ♪ I hope he dies ♪ ♪ But one thing you gotta see ♪ ♪ And that someone's gotta go over there ♪ ♪ And that someone isn't me ♪ ♪ So I wish you well ♪ ♪ Sarge, give 'em hell ♪ ♪ Kill me a thousand or so ♪ ♪ And if you ever get a war without blood and gore ♪ ♪ I'll be the first to go ♪ ♪ Yes, I'm only 18 ♪ ♪ I got a ruptured spleen I'd always carry a purse ♪ ♪ I got eyes like a bat in my feet ♪ ♪ Our flat and my asthma's gettin' worse ♪ ♪ Yes, think of my career ♪ ♪ My sweetheart dear ♪ ♪ My poor old invalidant ♪ ♪ Besides ain't no fool ♪ ♪ I'm a goin' to school ♪ ♪ And I'm workin' and a defense plant ♪ - The theme music for this program is "Turning of the World", performed by Sarah Thompson. This spirit in action program is an effort of Northern Spirit Radio. You can listen to our programs and find links and information about us and our guests on our website, northernspiritradio.org. Thank you for listening. I am your host, Mark Helpsmeet, and I welcome your comments and stories of those leading lives of spiritual fruit. May you find deep roots to support you and grow steadily toward the light. This is "Spirit in Action". ♪ With every voice ♪ ♪ With every song ♪ ♪ We will move this world along ♪ ♪ With every voice ♪ ♪ With every song ♪ ♪ We will move this world along ♪ ♪ And our lives will feel the echo of our healing ♪ ♪ I'm feeling ♪