Spirit in Action
Somalian Ways of Peace
Abdisalam Adam, born in Somalia, came to the USA in 1991. He's the director of the Dar Al-Hijrah Islamic Civic Center in Minneapolis, MN and works as a Somali Cultural Specialist for St. Paul Public Schools. He'll be one of the featured speakers for Ways of Peace II: Non-violence in the Islamic Tradition on 4/9/11.
- Broadcast on:
- 03 Apr 2011
- Audio Format:
- other
[music] Let us sing this song for the healing of the world That we may hear as one With every voice, with every song We will move this world along And our lives will feel the echo of our healing [music] Welcome to Spirit in Action. My name is Mark Helpes Me. Each week, I'll be bringing you stories of people living lives of fruitful service, of peace, community, compassion, creative action, and progressive efforts. I'll be tracing the spiritual roots that support and nourish them in their service, hoping to inspire and encourage you to sync deep roots and produce sacred food in your own life. Let us sing this song for the dreaming of the world That we may dream as one With every voice, with every song We will move this world along I'm pleased to welcome as today's Spirit in Action Odysselem Adam. He's one of the featured speakers at April 9th's conference Called "Ways of Peace to Nonviolence in the Islamic Tradition." It is sponsored by friends for a non-violent world, so you can find info on their site, f-n-v-w-dot-o-r-g. Odysselem is one of several hard-working Muslims who will be presenting at the conference, each from their area of expertise and experience. Odysselem was born in Somalia and came to the USA in 1991. He's the director of the Dar Al-Hijra Islamic Civic Center and works as a Somali cultural specialist with St. Paul Public Schools. He serves on the board of the African Relief Agency of Horn of Africa and another handful of organizations. So I'm honored that he made time to speak with me today. Odysselem Adam joins us today by phone from the Twin Cities of Minnesota. Odysselem, thank you so much for joining me for Spirit in Action. Thank you so much, Mark. I appreciate the opportunity. And I look forward to hearing you on April 9th in the Twin Cities. How did it come about that you got invited to speak at the Ways of Peace conference? Actually, the Imam of my mosque also called Dar Al-Hijra Cultural Center in Minneapolis. He's a good friend of Professor at Minneapolis Community and Technical College. So Gil Danaka, who is one of the main organizers of this conference, talked to the professor and the Imam told me that the one-teller speaker from the Muslim Somali community and he referred me to contact panel and that was how I got involved. And just for our listeners who aren't aware of how a mosque is structured or in general how Islam works organizationally, what is the equivalent or the role of an Imam? The Imam is like a pastor in the Christian Church. His role is to lead the prayers, to give sermons and also give advice and counseling. So it's a person of authority trusted by the families and the community in general. It's not in the sense of being like highly ordained or being holy in a way. Most Imams are regular ordinary people. Some of them are highly educated and go through intensive education in Islam. And so there are variations depending on where the community is located and so on. So basically we can say in this context is the religious leader in the community and congregation. And we're talking about the twin cities of Minnesota. How large is the Islamic center or the mosque? Are there multiple mosques? The just one mosque? How many people are associated with it? Twin cities Muslim community is relatively new in terms of growth of numbers. Although they have been Muslims who have lived in for a long time but they have been small in number. The real increase came after the Somali immigrant came to the twin cities starting in 1993 after this civil war in Somalia and when the US government started bringing Somali refugees. So currently there are about 120,000 I would say more than 70% would be Somalis and the others will consist primarily of people from South Asia, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan and Arabs from many parts of the Arab world as well as African-American. So these are these four main groups in the twin cities and the Muslims in the US in general. So if there are 120,000 do all of them attend just one mosque? No, actually there are many mosques and Islamic communities are very loosely affiliated. It's not like one ruler or one organization or one authority. A lot of it is the best routes work established by different people who have, you know, the heart for this work. So we have over I would say close to 30 mosques of varying sizes and varying populations all over the twin cities and also greater Minnesota. And also in this like Rochester, Wilmer and Cloud. There are Muslim communities and also some of these other towns as well. So in the twin cities alone we have close to 30 mosques and there will be others also in other cities. And usually in Islam also we don't have membership systems. The person will pray at any mosque that they could be close to when the time of the prayer comes. So we have, you could see all the Muslims from different parts of the world praying together. And also some of them are large in number and sometimes will be more ethnic than others depending on the location. So you could have predominantly Somali mosque for example. But it's not because of membership, it's just by design because of the location and the people who come there as Somali and the language of the congregation of the sermons is Somali. So we have those kids like Arabic speaking mosque or English speaking mosque and so that happens sometimes. You know, I figure you must speak quite a few different languages. I know that you've worked as a translator, Arabic, Somali, English. You are on the Speakers Bureau for the Dhar al-Hijra Cultural Center. How big is the Cultural Center? Are there multiple cultural centers also in the Twin Cities area? I'm really very ignorant about all of this. The role of the mosque also has changed with the American context and because it's grassroots, it's established by the community. So there are many mosques, there are many cultural centers. The ones that I'm affiliated with Dhar al-Hijra is located in a neighborhood called Cedar River Side. It's on the south Minneapolis. There are high-rise buildings for those who have been to the Twin Cities in the western near the University of Minnesota. And that's the neighborhood that many immigrants started when they came to the U.S. and to Minnesota. We've been told that the Norwegian started there, that Vietnamese also passed through that neighborhood, the Mong. And now it's the turn of the Somalis. So it's the towers that are called River Side Plaza. And many Somalis live there. So in that neighborhood there are mosques, there are stores, there are lots of community activities. And as people settle down more and become financially more stable, they move to the suburbs and to other places. Our particular congregation is large because it's right in the towers where the large number of Somalis lives. And we can say maybe about 200 people will attend a prayer. So five times, you know, it could be about what we could say about maybe up to 500 people who come through our doors in a given day. Some prayers are kind of very difficult and like early in the morning before sunrise. So that would not have a higher number, let's say sunset or in the middle of the day. So depending on the time of the day, you know, people come through our doors. A lot of people are the elders in the community. They don't need a car. They just walk from their homes to the mosque. Well, Adis Alam, you were invited to speak at this conference, this ways of peace conference about non-violence in the Islamic tradition. In part because you've helped work with Somalis coming here in the wake of the war over there. Were you actually living in Somalia at the time when the war was going on? I know part of the time in your youth, you spent in Nigeria, you've got degrees elsewhere. I mean, you've traveled around quite a bit. Were you there during the wars? No, actually, I was not there. I left Somalia quite young. I was born in the Somalis region in Ethiopia. This is also known as the organ and people who know the Cold War when there was the Soviet Union and the United States were competing in Africa. Adis region is geographically in Ethiopia and ethnically Somalia. And that was the nomad. I used to graze camels and cows and goats, which is the nomadic lifestyle of the Somalis. You can see even 70% of the Somalis are nomadic to the present day. So my older brother came back to the family and he saw I was a school aide. He convinced my father that I should go with him and he was walking in Nigeria at the time. So I had a dimension high school in Nigeria. And after completing high school, I went to Saudi Arabia, learned Arabic, and started from my bachelor's degree in English as a second language. And then came to the United States in 1991. So basically, now I've gone around and I've been in touch with Somalia when I was in Saudi Arabia. And in the 80s, I went there several times. And when the Civil War started, actually, I was in Saudi Arabia and it was still fresh when I came to the U.S. because the actual fall of central government happened in January 1991. And I came to the U.S. in August 1991. So it's about that time when central government felt that I came here. So I didn't go through the typical refugee experience of seeing war on trauma and violence. You know, the fact that I think you said your father was working in Nigeria, for people who haven't been to Africa, maybe they have no idea how far away that is. That's 1,500, 2,000 miles at least. How does it come that your father was working there? And he wasn't just working with goats and sheep or something there. He must have been highly trained himself. Yeah, it's kind of interesting that Somalis, nomadic, moving from place to place is very easy. But he left the family young also, went to study in Saudi Arabia and then, who is specialized in Arabic, so he went to Nigeria to teach Arabic language. He was an Arabic language instructor in Nigeria at the time. So we do have that kind of people crossing over for, you know, sometimes for adventure, sometimes for better lives. And sometimes for, you know, it won't use one's skills. So he's a language specialist and after Nigeria, we went back to Saudi Arabia where he was educated and he was a professor at King Saud University in Riyadh. Let's talk a little bit about the part of the conference. It's non-violence in the Islamic traditions. What's your first exposure to the idea of non-violence? And I assume it's somehow relevant to your work with all of these refugees who've had to come from Somalia, flee from Somalia during the Civil War. Violence, non-violence, Islamic tradition, and maybe just your family life. What's the relationship? Yeah, I think it's very important and it's really timely conference because of the voice of violence and extremism that has taken over many parts of the Muslim world and some extremist organizations that are using violence and terror as a weapon of political advancement of their causes. And certainly they have to hijug the religion of Islam. So I feel as a Muslim and I really give credit to the organizers of this conference. And I must say I'm really blessed sometimes to live in the U.S. and see the diversity of opinions and how, regardless of the pressure that we feel sometimes as Muslims, again, there are many allies, there are many friends, there are many people who live in and are able to separate between the extremists and the ordinary Muslims who are here to make a living. To me, as a Muslim, I feel it's a duty that we explain what the true teachings of Islam are, what the current states about violence, what the outcome of somebody who engages in violence is. And then again, also to separate also the extremist views from the mainstream Muslim voices. And again, also seeing the destruction that the violence and war has brought to many parts of the Muslim world, like Somalia, for example, the prime example, it would have been at war for over 20 years now. All we have seen is destruction. The city of Mogadishu, the capital of Somalia is complete ruin. So many people have lost their lives. And then again, also extremists like those who attacked the United States in 2001. Also, it's another tragedy that has been falling the whole of humanity. One thing that we need to understand is that terrorists or groups like Al-Qaeda or al-Shabaab in Somalia do not care whether when it's Muslim or Christian or Jew, they will attack, I mean, regardless of for their own purposes. So I think it makes sense that peace, loving, sensible people of the world come together, hold hands, do not give the extremist voice, expose their ideology and what they're doing wrong by all human standards. So I think it's really relevant as Muslims, we need this perspective to be heard. And probably it will come later in our discussion, but again, the written congressional hearings, the Muslims are always feeling under pressure or under scrutiny, being the victims of Al-Qaeda and like-minded groups. And so I think this gives us a forum to explain and for some Americans also to hear and listen to one another come with. Well, I want to ask you a little bit about your work with the schools, but first, I want to start with your name, Abdi Salam. How does that translate into English? How would that, what's a reasonable equivalent in English of that name? Literally, it means servant of the peaceful God. So the first part of the name Abdi means servant of the prefix. And the second part, Salam means peace. And peace is one of the attributes of God. And in Islam, there are over 99 attributes of God. So we have the prefix Abdi and sometimes spelled through Abdu, and even in the Middle East, for example in Egypt, it's spelled Abdel, Abdel. It all means the same, basically one who is subservient to God and who submits to the mighty God. So that's what my name means. So I think in this context, I have a big responsibility to live up to my name. Don't you think so? Well, I think you are doing that because you're doing that work with the school system that's so very, very important. No, I'm not assuming, by the way, that you're a Quranic expert. I'm not assuming that you're highly trained in that area, but I'm pretty sure that each of us in religions as we grow up, we receive some teachings. We witness how other people live their lives. We hear sermons. And so I'm wondering if you can give me a little bit of what you've learned just by growing up Muslim about peace and non-violence. Since I'm Quaker for the last 30 years, I've heard a lot about peace as part of Quaker groups that we don't have sermons or anything. My first 20 years on the planet were as a Catholic. I heard some things about peace, specifically from the lips of Jesus, but I didn't hear opposition to war. So I'm just kind of wondering how that was for you, what you've heard from Islamic community or from reading Quran or however else you received this information. I would say, and at the same time, when having this kind of discussion, sometimes I hear Americans or other people of other faiths, sometimes at most we tend to oversimplify things and say Islam is peace and everything is peace. There is aspects of also war and fighting and self-defense and so on. So in the teachings of Islam, it's highly emphasized, but again, there is also Muslims are allowed to engage also in war, for example, for defense or for somebody to defend themselves if their life is in danger. So I want to be frank and clear about that. I'm not saying that we are too traditional, we submit, and if somebody is hitting me or beating me that I will just submit and not do anything. But growing up as a Muslim, especially in Somalia, and we have to understand that Islam also is a worldwide religion with 1.5 billion followers and cultures, geography, politics, there are a lot of socioeconomic factors that play a role. So we cannot say that all the things, there are a few differences, like the Muslims of Somalia versus Saudi Arabia versus Indonesia. So within that context, I will focus on the Somali experience. Additionally, about the age of 5, a child's first step to education is to learn the Quran, Islamic holy book, memorizing it literally, you know, little by little, they have to start with their parents. Sometimes they will have an instructor, a teacher come to their home, sometimes they will join a school for Quran memorization. So even in the villages, we have wooden plates and just ink to write on them. Of course, today they use more modern means. So basically, we start from that age memorizing the Quran, and then when the time of school age comes, then we go to school, and even in this school in Somalia, Islamic education is in the system. So there's always a subject of Islamic studies. A lot of times, some people go another route of not the regular public schools, but through religious training. So they would have a teacher or a chef, that's the title for Islamic, somebody who's knowledgeable in the religion, a chef or Imam, will teach them about the faith. So they will start with simple folks and the basic teachings of the faith, like the six beliefs of Islam, believe in God, believe in the angels, believe in the prophets, believe in the folks, God the will, believe in the day of judgment or afterlife, and believe in divine faith. So these are the six articles of faith in Islam that the Muslim has to believe in, and then the five pillars, which is the declaration of faith pre-fast times of the day. Fasten in the month of Ramadan, giving charity to the poor, and annual pilgrimage to Mecca. And I do notice that many Americans heard about the five pillars more than the other six articles of faith. So I'm just kind of summarizing it briefly. So it's kind of step by step, then when we find the simple folks, then the next level, and then the next level, and it continues. People spend life time just learning about this religion. So when it comes to Islamic tradition, the Quran is the most important for one to be knowledgeable about. And the Quran is an Arabic, by the way, and many Muslims memorize it without sometimes knowing the meaning of the word, because there's a belief that just by memorizing it and by saying it, there is blessing and there is reward for doing that. But again, there are others who learn Arabic and also listen to interpretation of the Quran, or what's called a religious system, which is explained in the meaning of the words of the Quran. So people go through that, and myself, I, in Saudi Arabia, when I was meant to call it, I was part of the collective requirements within Islamic studies. I started also at the Bachelors level, not full degree, but very close to a Bachelors degree in Islamic studies, but a lot of it also comes through the mosques or the Islamic centers. There are always lessons going on. On the weekends, even here in the Twin Cities, many kids and many families go to the mosque for religious studies. But the addition that remains without whatever we are in the world, whatever we go, this is something very passionate and important for the Muslim individual, those who are practicing and conscious of uplifting their faith and being through to their faith. So it's a long journey. It never ends. Even as I am today, I'm still learning. So, you know, just to let you know a little bit about it. Yes, thank you for that explanation. Can you give me a little bit more flavor of, as you're growing up, just as an average individual, what they talk about peace or war? And just to give you a comparison, certainly growing up, I heard words from Jesus, you know, "Love your enemy, turn the other cheek," those kinds of things. I also heard about a vengeful God in what we have called the Old Testament or the Jewish scriptures where God was going to strike people down and that sometimes God told people to fight with other people. So that's part of how I was raised. What did you hear? Are there passages of a Quran that come to your mind right away when war and peace are brought up? Yes, I'm glad you asked that question. First of all, the word Islam itself comes from Arabic root, "pilm," which means peace, surrender, or submit. The word Muslim, which is the followers of the religion of Islam, comes from the same root. The word "salam," which is the greeting of Muslims, also comes from that same root. So when Muslims agree to each other every day, they say to one another, "Haz-salamu alaykum," which means peace be upon you, and the other person will respond and peace be upon you too. So this in itself shows you how important peace is, how important submission is, but at the same time, in Islam, we have thought that in life there are two sides, you know, there's good and evil, you know, there's peace and there's war. There is hell and there's heaven. So the point is, how do you maintain the balance? How do you, you know, between the two? As you said, God is just, God is peaceful. At the same time, God is stern also, and also, for those who are not, you know, obeying or, you know, the sinners or people who don't call also, there's punishments for them. So there are two sides to everything. So how do you strike the middle cause? That's what the religion tries to teach. So when it comes to the teachings of Islam, the Quran is the primary source, and the second source is the statements of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. In one house, this is called Hadith, or the traditions of the Prophet. So in one of them, he said, "Should I teach you what would make you love one another?" And the companions of the Prophet said, "For tell us, you know, Prophet of God." And he said, spread peace among you, Salam, you know, spread Salam among you. So Salam, or peace in the sense of greeting one another, continuously and all the time, for being peaceful. And then on the other side, also Islam, as I was saying, there's another side too, so it calls for self-defense, or there's a word that we often hear about a lot called the Had, or in English, people interpret as holy war, and Muslims do not agree with that translation. The little tell me of the word is to strive, you know, for the best and the exact ones at most efforts. And then also there is jihad in the sense of self-defense or defense of the religion. So even in terms of what Islam calls for fairness and not to, you know, destroy places of worship or plants or wealth or, you know, people's livelihood, and there are clear rules that are to be followed. Unfortunately today, we're not saying that, and, you know, people using suicide bombings and, you know, the end justifies the means, you know, doing anything to gain their objective. This is contrary to the teachings of Islam. So growing up, we used to hear about that being peaceful and being kind to the others. So from the name of the religion, to the name of the followers, to the greetings, I think this speaks volume of the place of peace in Islam. One more point I would like to add is the use of suicide bombings, a major sin in Islam. And according to the Quran, the person who results to that will be punished in the hereafter. And that's very clear in the faith. So people who use those means are really going against the teachings of their faith. And human life takes its trust. It does not belong to us. We're to keep it until its time comes and God takes it away from us. So that's the way that the Muslims review the use of their body and their lives to protect it, that they don't own it. So that's also very important. I think that we should emphasize in light of the terrible, terrible tragedies that many Muslims are committing today. I am an immigrant. I am a stranger in this place. Here but for the grace of God go I am an immigrant. I have left everything I own. To everything I've known I say goodbye. She said give me your time, don't you know I'm weary? She said give me your porn. She's talking to me. One of your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. And I never have lost sight of what this journey has been for. See how she lifts her lamp beside the golden door. I am an Irishman. When the famine put us to the test, way into the West like wild birds flying, we put our backs to the wheel. With a heart that always yearned for home, we have made this place our own and about died trying. She said give me your time, don't you know I'm weary? And she said give me your porn. She's talking to me. One of your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. And I never have lost sight of what this journey has been for. See how she lifts her lamp beside the golden door. I am Chinese. I have worked your mills, your yards, your mines. I have laid your railroad lines with my two good hands. I am a Chicano. In your orchards and your fields, I have gathered in the youth in this hungry land. She said give me your time, don't you know I'm weary? And she said give me your porn. She's talking to me. One of your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. And I never have lost sight of what this journey has been for. See how she lifts her lamp beside the golden door. I am Nigerian. I am Iranian. I Jew. From Laos from Kathmandu. I am your story. I am a long long line. One you have forgotten that is true. I am everything you know I am your glory. She said give me your time, don't you know we're weary? And she said give me your porn. She's talking to you and me. We are the huddled masses yearning to breathe free. And we never must lose sight of what this journey has been for. As we lift her lamp beside the golden door. [Music] [Music] [Music] A little musical interlude with John McCutchen's song immigrant. Very opera poll of today's topic and guest. If you just tuned in we're speaking with Abdi Salam Adam. He came to the US in 1991 from Somalia. He actually has lived also in Nigeria and Saudi Arabia. He lived in the east of the United States before coming to the Twin Cities in 1996. He occupies a number of posts. He's very active. He is the board chair of the Islamic Civic Society of America which operates the Dar Al-Hijra Mosque in Minneapolis. He serves on the boards of the Islamic League of Somali scholars in America, joint religious legislation coalition and other things. He's very busy neighborhood house in St. Paul. And so I'm very impressed that he could make time to speak with us here today for Spirit in Action. I'm your host for Spirit in Action. My name is Mark Helpsmeet. Our website is northernspiritradio.org. Please come to our site to see links to our guests to hear all of our programs from the last five and a half years. And please leave us comments. We love hearing from you. We want to know who's listening in which corner of the countries, which programs you felt helpful and which ones you don't need to hear again. We need to hear everything that you have to feed back to us. As I said, we're speaking with Adi Salam, Adam. And Adi Salam, I was wondering the last name Adam. In English, I associate that with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Is that where the family name comes from? Exactly. That's where it comes from. In Islam, Adam was the first woman being God created and the father of all the peoples of the world. So in a sense, you and I as a father as well. As I just mentioned, you are active with the Dara Al-Hijra Cultural Center. And one of the things that I know that the cultural center says about its purpose is that they demonstrate the compatibility between Islamic principles and the principles of democracy. So until 1991, you lived in Islamic societies and then you came to the United States. What was the learning curve like for you? Because I think it's something that you must be passing on to the Somali refugees who are coming to the Twin Cities. Was it hard to adapt to the cultural approach of the United States? Yes, it did take time. But I think my life has become much more richer as I have interacted with people in the U.S. and even within the other Muslim communities. But what happens is for many Muslims, they come from communities that are generally homogeneous. I mean, they are kind of the same group. Somali, for example, is the same religion, the same language, the same kind of physical appearance, even the same school of thought within Sunni Islam. So, somebody who comes from that context and sees everything in one way, come into America and see the diversity of religions, the diversity of colors and complexions, the diversity of ethnicity is really tough. So, in a sense, in our part of the world, America is really viewed in two constructs ways. Some will see they are dry America so much and everybody is kind of finding a way to get to America or to the U.S. And then other times you will see, because of mainly the foreign policy or some of the military activities of the U.S., you see others who, you know, detest the country and kind of, you just see a hatred in them. But those are in minority, very small, I would say, in any Muslim country, whether Somalia, Saudi Arabia, all the places I have been to. That love for America and people fascinated by America and especially the influence of America and corporate America in business and entertainment is obvious in many parts of the Muslim world. So, I did have that in mind when I was coming here, and most of we kind of afraid for our faith. So, one thing that many Muslims said was they come to America or they go to a non-Muslim country, they will lose their faith. We were really surprised when we came here and we saw the number of Muslim institutions, the freedom of worship that they have. To give it or not, there are some Muslim countries that Muslims cannot practice their faith as well or as freely as they do in the U.S. And classic example is Tunisia, a country that in the current sub-rath in the middle is just deposed, they are addicted and hopefully there will be more religious freedom. Many Tunisian friends here in America, they used to tell me that, you know, young men will become reason for being suspected of being detained if they go to the mosque for the morning prayer, you know, the early morning prayer, for example, or if they grew up there. Many women could not keep their headscarf, something similar to that was happening in Turkey. So, I'm really blessed and I've come a long way to accept the diversity and the tolerance and say in everything one way. And so, I think I've come a long way and in that sense, that's what I try to tell the Somali immigrants. We claim to do one, you know, homogeneous society yet, we've been fighting for 20 years. It's not just a matter of what you claim or what you, what about how you leave your principles. I think that's what really matters. It's not just claiming that we are Somali, Muslim, yet just because we're from different clans or different tribes, we keep fighting. I always use that as a reference. Just look at America, just see the diversity, see the differences. What's there between us that keeps us fighting for so long. I mean, people listen sometimes, but I don't know. It could take time and it takes time to really appreciate the tolerance. So, the key, I think, is the tolerance and to accept the other and to see the bigger pictures. That's the key, I think. I wonder how tolerant Muslims from one country or from one area or one variety of Islam are of other Muslims of different varieties. Is there a major difference? For instance, you're working with Somali refugees coming to the Twin Cities area. How is their culture, how are their thoughts, how are their beliefs different than other Muslims coming to the Twin Cities area? I think we will say, generally speaking, the main divisions in the Muslim world, when it comes to divisions, will be the Sunni Shia. You hear that about a lot. And even that is not that the basic principles are the same. They believe in God and the Prophet Muhammad, their Prophet. So, the Shia was a sect that broke away from the main Sunni Islam not long after the Prophet Muhammad passed away. That division is based primarily, they believe that the leader of the Muslims or the greater Imam or, you know, the president of the Muslim, or the Muslim nation, let's say it was one nation, now there are many countries, so it's not really applicable. But what they believe was, it should be from the protection of the Prophet Muhammad and not somebody else. And the Sunni says anybody could be the leader and the best qualified and the most knowledgeable. So, that divide kind of stands out. But in Somalia, we don't have Shia, so we didn't actually have much experience. And my own personal position is that we are not that far apart, so we are almost in a way, the division should not be made as big as some others do. And there are some Muslims that who see the Shia even farther than the Christian sometimes, for example, you know, the level of enmity. And I don't subscribe to that. Here in the Twin Cities, there are mostly Sunni organizations, there are also Shia organizations, and we don't interact that much in some ways, but also there is no animosity and sometimes in public events, both everybody comes. But it's a Muslim world itself. There are some sects of within Islam that are the district, they see themselves as the only right ones, they are the ones who are the truth. And you know, those who even differ from them a little bit, even among Muslims, they will condemn in the same way that they will condemn the Christians or Jews or people of no faith. So in a way that is sometimes extremism, rigidity, narrow-mindedness, all display a role in a present perspective. I think education is the key. Traveling and discovering the world will be another way of people to kind of open up their eyes and lift up their eyes and see the bigger picture. So we do go through these struggles. There's Muslim to Muslim discrimination, there's Muslim to Muslim oppression in many parts of the Muslim world, otherwise the most brutal regimes are in the Muslim world. So we are struggling, especially politically, and one of those people who are hopeful that something good might come out of the current revolutions or oppressions in many parts of the Muslim world, because the dictatorship and somebody's thinking are not giving people their rights in their own country. It's not serving the faith, nor the well-being of the community. It's really undermining the prosperity of the Muslim nation in many parts of the world. I'm wondering if you can delve into some of the cultural differences that make Somali's different from other nations. Again, keeping in mind, I have lived in West Africa, in Togo for two years. I've traveled to Kenya and Rwanda, so I have an idea a little bit about Africa, and I know some things that are in common, but I know that some things are very different. What is something that is distinctly Somali? If you saw that, you say, "Okay, that person's from Somali, even if you didn't hear him speak." From the practice, it's kind of hard to know, because Somalia was influenced also by other civilizations. For example, it's on the Indian Ocean, and we had contact with the Egyptians, with the Indians, with the Persians, with defense civilizations. So there is a lot of contact with other civilizations. So it's hard to really pin down, and that person is a Somali from the practice. Generally speaking, the Somalis are kind of the nomadic nature. They tend to have to move from place to place, sense of freedom, that they don't feel inferior to anybody. Even those are not educated. They will speak very confidently and feel proud of who they are and attract themselves. And we see that playing out in the 20 days. If they need a job, they will go to anywhere. They will just go to a company, knock on the door and build the phone. So there's no sense of holding back or fear or being discriminated against, because we have not experienced it. And then when it comes to the religious defense, I think that's what your question was. Within Islam, there are four schools of thought. And what that means is, in early Islam, they call us interpret the face, like they will look at the Quranic text. One scholar will understand it one way, another will understand it in another way, so the four schools that develop out of that. So there are differences in the practice. So the same scholar will say, this is what this means, another will say, this is what this means. And out of that, develop the schools of thought. So the Somalis are a school called Shafiya. Maybe if I should just say the names of the schools, those who are maybe deeper who know deeply about Islam. So Shafiya is one of them. In Saudi Arabia and the Gulf state, it's called Hambali. In Bangladesh and India, Pakistan, those are called Hanafi. And in North Africa, called Maliki. So these are four schools of thought. So there are differences in the practices there, and not in the acts of worship, for example. But you could notice some of those differences. And sometimes Muslims spend time arguing that this is the right way, and they shouldn't do this, and they shouldn't do that. So you can see that plane in the Muslim community where the different schools of thought come together. Well, let's talk a little bit about your work with the Twin Cities schools. You work as a Somali cultural specialist with the Twin Cities schools. What does that mean, and how does that get put into action? Basically what that means is the cultural liaison for the Somali community for 10 public schools, basically is bridging, understanding. On one side, teaching the Somali community about how the school system works, engaging the parents, contacting them if there are issues that they need to know. And then on the other side, teach the school system about the Somali community. So I would conduct workshops, teacher training workshops, develop some ideas and lesson plans for curriculum. So it's basically bridging, understanding. And sometimes if principals and teachers have issues with Somali students, or that could be faith-based, misunderstanding, or culture, or they will call me, and I would mediate and try to resolve the issue. The issue that might be going on. You know, this is something I hadn't thought about. At what age is one assumed that they should be doing the praying five times a day? How early does that start? And does that apply to students that are in school? Yes, many of the Islamic practices as a general practice start with puberty. Once the child attend the age of puberty, then they are required, for example, to fast to wear the hair scalp or the hijab. The prayer is a little bit different. Children are reminded to pray at the age of seven, kind of start telling them, and it's emphasized at the age of 10, and then after that it becomes required. So the prayer starts quite early, and the Muslims pray five times a day, and usually one of the prayers comes during the school day, and luckily, one of the reasons why Minnesota's First Minnesota was the school system was accommodating. So they allow space for the students who want to do their prayer to have space to perform it, so they are allowed. Sometimes education needs to happen, the teachers have more time, and it takes about 10 minutes, you know, the space and requirements. And I play that role of explaining to the teachers and to the school system, because sometimes one cannot rely on the students to teach, and sometimes they will take more time, and some of them may not really be true to the request, they may play around and not follow the rules. So I do help with that also, and also as part of the, when I was talking earlier about cultural presentations, these are the things that I tell the school staff, you know, the prayer, it's a huge one. In the months of Ramadan is another big one, not including pork in the food menu, if they are letting the Muslim students know about it. So some of this area, the hijab, the health staff, and what it means, and sometimes some of the Somali kids, they wear it from kindergarten, some of them, because they wanted to grow as a habit, their parents wanted to be a habit for them, so they wear this all the time. They're just telling the teachers why that's the case. You know, something I hadn't thought about, I believe when you pray, you're supposed to face towards Mecca. Does that mean facing more or less east from where we are? It's more not east, because it's a kind of symbol of unity, so whatever the Muslim person is, they face the direction of Mecca. So it's not east when we're here in Minnesota or in midwest, in America in general, we face not east. Okay. Well, one of the things that I assume is a consequence of people who've left Somalia, they're leaving because of the Civil War that's been going on for the 20 years there. I assume there must be issues of trauma, people, I don't know exactly what kind of abuse or deprivation or other troubles people have been facing in Somalia, but I assume you have some role in trying to help the system deal with whatever consequences of coming from a war environment. Yes, that's right, and again, one of the reasons why the Somalis came to the Minnesota in large numbers is the welcoming environment. I must say, in 1993, when the first Somalia refugees came to the U.S., they were taken to different states. And the ones who came to Minnesota liked the reception they heard, especially accommodations from the school system, and also not dealing with this experience of trauma. And the Minnesota educators and social services and health system was very good in listening, in kind of understanding and trying to find a solution to these issues as they came. So this was more when the community was new and they were coming directly from fighting because many of them had witnessed, you know, close relative skills and they themselves, you know, came close to death. And so they had symptoms of that, you know, people who are scared and dreaming and memories and sometimes not paying attention in class. And you could see many of these symptoms of post-traumatic syndrome. So I do play a role, you know, talk to them. A lot of them also speak healing in the face. So they'll go to the mouth and would want an imam or religious leader to pray for them and to ask or to help heal whatever does bother in them or in them. So I did play a lot of role in bridging that trauma. So we tell the families or whoever that's going through this experience is sick, you know, medical, modern health, while at the same time taking the religious side as well. So both, they will complement each other. But there are some who would want to maybe just the faith one and would not, would be reluctant to go to the doctors or take medicines. But we tell them the matter of faith that God asks you to help yourself and take the necessary means and then pray also for healing. Well, there's a lot of good work to be done there, which is of course why I invited you for spirit and action. I do want to remind our listeners that Adisallam Adam will be speaking as part of a conference called Ways of Peace, Nonviolence in the Islamic Tradition. It's happening on April 9th and it's at St. Thomas University in the Twin Cities area. The place you want to go to find information about it is the website of Friends for Nonviolent World. That is FNVW.org and there you can find the Ways of Peace conference. I appreciate so much the work you've done, Adisallam, and especially that you took this time to speak with me in preparing for the conference. I look forward to hearing you at the conference. Thanks so much again for joining me for spirit and action. Thank you very much, Mark, and I'm really honored and really thank you for sharing and giving me the forum to speak to your listeners. And I think this is the way to go the more we listen to one another and the more we learn from one another, the better it will be for our communities and for us and the American community and also for the new immigrants to integrate. When they feel welcome and they are part of the system, it makes them also integrate more easily, so it's really important the work we are doing too. My guest again was Adisallam Adam, one of the speakers at the upcoming April 9th Ways of Peace to Conference, Nonviolence in the Islamic Tradition. Find more info at fnvw.org. Website of Friends for Nonviolent World will send you off for today's spirit and action with a bit of modern Somali music on the panes of war and hopes for peace. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] The theme music for this program is Turning of the World, performed by Sarah Thompson. This spirit and action program is an effort of Northern Spirit Radio. You can listen to our programs and find links and information about us and our guests on our website, northernspiritradio.org. Thank you for listening. I am your host, Mark Helpsmeet, and I welcome your comments and stories of those leading lives of spiritual fruit. May you find deep roots to support you and grow steadily toward the light. This is Spirit in Action. [Music]