Spirit in Action
Been to Jail for Justice - Anne Feeney
Anne Feeney is a rabble rouser activist whose music is zeroed in on exposing the failings and promoting the positive possibilities for our world. She's a modern union maid and hellraiser, working for the people and against war, injustice, corporate greed and much more.
- Broadcast on:
- 04 Dec 2010
- Audio Format:
- other
(upbeat music) ♪ Let us sing this song for the healing of the world ♪ ♪ That we may hear as one ♪ ♪ With every voice, with every song ♪ ♪ We will move this world along ♪ ♪ And our lives will feel the echo of our healing ♪ - Welcome to Spirit in Action. My name is Mark Helps Me. Each week, I'll be bringing you stories of people living lives of fruitful service, of peace, community, compassion, creative action, and progressive efforts. I'll be tracing the spiritual roots that support and nourish them in their service, hoping to inspire and encourage you to sink deep roots and produce sacred fruit in your own life. ♪ Let us sing this song for the dreaming of the world ♪ ♪ That we may dream as one ♪ ♪ With every voice, with every song ♪ ♪ We will move this world along ♪ - Today, we're going to a Pittsburgh hospital to visit with folk singer, songwriter, and Feeney. I had her on my Song of the Soul program earlier, but she was a complete natural for spirit in action. She's a rabble-rouser activist through and through, whose music is zeroed in on exposing the failings and promoting the positive possibilities for our world. She's a modern union-made and a hell-raiser, working for the people and against war, injustice, corporate greed, and much more. Her website is andfeeney.com. - And welcome back to Spirit in Action. - It's such a pleasure to be here with you today, Mark. - Last I spoke to you, you're in the hospital, how are things going there now? - Well, I'm going to be here for a while. I'm a pretty sick girl, but I'm optimistic that I will make a complete recovery. I've got small cell lung cancer, which is not a happy diagnosis, but we caught it so early that I think my prognosis is as good as it could possibly be. - I do know that over the years, one of the things you've sung about is health care and the need for a good health care plan. Were you covered well? - I have a catastrophic plan that I've been paying a small premium for, well, two or 50 a month, but it turns out, you know, it's a high deductible, high copay, but now that I've more than met all of that, I'm completely covered. The interesting thing is my benefit here begins August 1st and I got sick on July 1st. So I managed to spend the whole copay in deductible in July and then I got to do it again in August. What a little diabolical insurance company rule. - Isn't it a sweet system for them? While you're there in the hospital, are you still able to enjoy music, make it? I mean, I assume songs are popping out of your head, left and right. - Well, I'm not the most prolific songwriter. I tend to only write when I absolutely have to. I don't know why that is. - Actually, I do know why it is. I'm from a working class neighborhood and we were always brought up to think that there were some kind of special people that had special talents that the muse came to visit and the rest of us were just schlemills that should keep our shoulder to the wheel. So I always feel like I'm being sold a pretentious if I pull out a pen and start to write a song. - Did you get that schlemill from your father, the Jewish part of the family? - Actually, I have no Jewish part of my family. My first husband was Jewish. - Did you get it from your husband then? - No, I think my fascination with Jewish men predated my husband by a number of affairs with brilliant young Jewish activists when I was young. - And there's a lot of them in the activist area. - Even more so in the '60s and early '70s. - Yeah, yeah. Well, let's get into some of the music for your spirit and action sharing. You've been going around 300 plus days a year, touring, firing up the folks to get them working for a better world in so many ways. What song would you like to start us off with? - Well, I thought we'd start off with my big hit. This song is being sung in paddy wagons all over the world. I never would have guessed that the first song that really hit for me would be about civil disobedience, but it was my friend Molly Rush's civil disobedience. She was one of the Plowshoe's activists that hammered in a nose cone in King of Precious, Pennsylvania in the early '70s. It might have been the mid '70s with the Berrigan. It's just a suburban grandmother looking at very serious federal jail time for pouring her own blood on a missile and hammering it with a little ball peen hammer. And I thought something is crazy in this world when we can drop bombs, carpet bomb, a country like Vietnam and douse it with poison. And that's not a crime. And Molly Rush pouring her own blood on the nose kind of a missile becomes a criminal who has to spend 10 years in jail. - It is crazy. When did you write this? - I was down for Clinton's second nomination. I was at Democratic National Headquarters with a group called Adapt and Not Dead Yet. And they're both disability rights activist groups. Not Dead Yet is the militant wing of Adapt. We were all arrested at Democratic Headquarters. It took forever to haul these people off because most of them were in Gurney's and huge heavy electric wheelchairs. In fact, I had some fabulous pictures of the Atlanta cops coming in with their standard issue, Patty Wagons and then getting a look at the people they had come to arrest and realizing they brought the wrong gear within hours. They had requisitioned every access van in Atlanta to arrest the folks, but it still took four or five hours to get them out of Democratic Headquarters. - So one of the questions I had for you was, have you been to jail? It sounds like, yeah, so many times. - Well, actually, I've risked arrest many times. And I don't consider the arrest that I had going to jail for justice. People who actually do hard time and do I had in mind people who go to trial and are sentenced getting arrested on a picket line as I have been or getting arrested at a demonstration as I have been, I don't think really count. - Do you have any number one heroes, great luminaries for you? - Well, I learned a long time ago that it's not a good idea to idealize mortal people. I certainly have a lot of friends and colleagues and comrades I've worked with over the years that I adore and respect. Jerry Tucker in the labor movement is just an amazing fellow at said Lowsky, Molly Rush in the peace and justice movement and right. Oh my goodness, and right, it's just an amazing woman. There are a lot of people that I really admire. My friend Jenny Rabinowitz in Pittsburgh, pretty much set her mind to eliminating hunger in Allegheny County and has just been the most amazing work found in an organization called Just Harvest. My friend Barney Orsler during the layoffs in Pala Deco during all the mill closings in Pennsylvania founded the Montvalley unemployed committee and from the late '70s until now, they have delivered so many services to people who have lost their jobs in the first, that boom industry in Pittsburgh right now losing jobs. People who just quietly said about the task of writing a wrong. You have a lot of the best friends, it sounds like. And it sounds like you are saying a thank you and pleased to know you with your song Have You Been To Jail For Justice by Anne Finney. ♪ Was it season's Chavez ♪ ♪ Maybe it was Dorothy Day ♪ ♪ Some will say Dr. King or Gandhi ♪ ♪ Set them on their way ♪ ♪ No matter who your mentors are ♪ ♪ It's pretty plain to see ♪ ♪ If you've been to jail for justice ♪ ♪ You're in good company ♪ ♪ Have you been to jail for justice ♪ ♪ I wanna shake your hand ♪ ♪ Sitting in and lying down ♪ ♪ Always to take a stand ♪ ♪ Have you swung a strong full freedom ♪ ♪ Or marched that picket line ♪ ♪ Have you been to jail for justice ♪ ♪ Oh, you're a friend of mine ♪ ♪ You love biting citizens ♪ ♪ Listen to this song ♪ ♪ Laws were made by people ♪ ♪ And people can be wrong ♪ ♪ Once unions were against the law ♪ ♪ But slavery was fine ♪ ♪ Women were denied the vote ♪ ♪ And children worked the mine ♪ ♪ The more you study history ♪ ♪ The less you can deny it ♪ ♪ A rotten lost is on the books ♪ ♪ Till folks with guts deep-fired ♪ ♪ Have you been to jail for justice ♪ ♪ I wanna shake your hand ♪ ♪ Sitting in and lying down ♪ ♪ Always to take a stand ♪ ♪ Have you sung a song for freedom ♪ ♪ Or marched that picket line ♪ ♪ Have you been to jail for justice ♪ ♪ Oh, you're a friend of mine ♪ ♪ Now the law's supposed to serve us ♪ ♪ And so are the police ♪ ♪ When that system fails ♪ ♪ It's up to us to speak our peace ♪ ♪ It takes eternal vigilance ♪ ♪ For justice to prevail ♪ ♪ So get courage from your convictions ♪ ♪ Let them haul you off to jail ♪ ♪ Have you been to jail for justice ♪ ♪ I wanna shake your hand ♪ ♪ Sitting in and lying down ♪ ♪ Always to take a stand ♪ ♪ Have you sung a song for freedom ♪ ♪ Or marched that picket line ♪ ♪ Have you been to jail for justice ♪ ♪ Will you go to jail for justice ♪ ♪ Have you been to jail for justice ♪ ♪ Oh, you're a friend of mine ♪ - That's Anne Finney with her song. Have you been to jail for justice here today with us for spirit in action? And she's been a spirit force all across the country. And I assume you've gone beyond the country too. Do they let you in and out of the United States these days? - Oh, of course they do. I've traveled all over Canada performing and also Sweden and Denmark and Ireland. - So how else have you been rousing the rabble? - I picked the songs that I did for today's shows so that it would be kind of a biographical sketch of my work as well as a list of spirit in action. This next song is a song that I wrote after marching from Hartford to New Haven with Jesse Jackson registering voters all over Connecticut. And it was so stunning to me, just appalling to see the tremendous concentration of wealth in the state of Connecticut, the heart of the insurance beast and the Ivy League splendor of Yale juxtaposed with Calcutta like poverty in the slums that surround Yale to realize that it cost more to keep an inner city youth in a prison than it does to send them to Yale. And yet we warehouse so many of our young African American, men and women in jails instead of giving them a chance at a decent education and a chance for a life. So as we were walking, this was the year that Jesse was saying, we need to rebuild America. Keep hope alive, we need to rebuild America. Keep hope alive, I think I have told you that any time I find people reciting something, I'd set it to music, so that's what I did here. ♪ Well here's the song we all can sing ♪ ♪ Let's start with the story of Rodney King ♪ ♪ Keep your eyes on the prize and hold on ♪ ♪ I watched him eating on TV ♪ ♪ But Timmy Valley said them free ♪ ♪ Keep your eyes on the prize and hold on ♪ ♪ Hold on, hold on, hold on ♪ ♪ Keep your eyes on the prize and hold on ♪ ♪ Johnny Gammage dies in vain ♪ ♪ His killer comes to the streets again ♪ ♪ Keep your eyes on the prize and hold on ♪ ♪ My hope's crushed in Albany ♪ ♪ As the other's killers walk out free ♪ ♪ Keep your eyes on the prize and hold on ♪ ♪ Hold on, hold on, hold on ♪ ♪ Keep your eyes on the prize and hold on ♪ ♪ The verdict spilled my heart with pain ♪ ♪ I will sing the same refrain ♪ ♪ Keep your eyes on the prize and hold on ♪ ♪ Hold on, hold on ♪ ♪ A cry for justice fills the air ♪ ♪ This is no time for despair ♪ ♪ Keep your eyes on the prize and hold on ♪ ♪ Hold on, hold on, hold on ♪ ♪ Hold on, hold on ♪ ♪ Keep your eyes on the prize and hold on ♪ ♪ We've got to rebuild America ♪ ♪ And people hope my life ♪ ♪ We've got to rebuild America ♪ ♪ Keep hope of life ♪ ♪ We've got to rebuild America ♪ ♪ Hold on, hold on the prize and hold on ♪ ♪ That dream we are building never lies ♪ ♪ You can't murder justice ♪ ♪ No, no, no ♪ ♪ You don't carry freedom, no, you don't ♪ ♪ We can see a future where our children share the earth ♪ ♪ You won't take that from us, no, you won't ♪ ♪ We've got to rebuild America ♪ ♪ Keep hope of life ♪ ♪ We've got to rebuild America ♪ ♪ We've got to rebuild America ♪ ♪ We've got to rebuild America ♪ ♪ Our hearts on the prize ♪ ♪ That dream we are building never lies ♪ ♪ We've got to end racial profiling, violence, mistakes ♪ ♪ When will they learn it, no justice, no peace ♪ ♪ Hold on, hold on, hold on ♪ ♪ We've got to educate our children, not put them in jail ♪ ♪ By whatever means necessary, we must prevail ♪ ♪ Hold on, hold on ♪ ♪ Hold on ♪ ♪ Our cities are crumbling, our schools are disgraced ♪ ♪ And we're building more jails, putting weapons in space ♪ ♪ Hold on, hold on, hold on ♪ ♪ We've got to rebuild America ♪ ♪ Keep hope of life ♪ ♪ We've got to rebuild America ♪ ♪ Keep hope of life ♪ ♪ We've got to ♪ ♪ We've got to rebuild America ♪ ♪ Our hearts on the prize ♪ ♪ That dream we are building never lies ♪ ♪ Now don't sit at home saying what could I do ♪ ♪ Remember that unity starts with you ♪ ♪ Hold on, hold on, hold on ♪ ♪ Is democracy dead, only time's gonna tell ♪ ♪ Get your famous dream, start raising some hell ♪ ♪ Hold on, hold on, hold on ♪ ♪ Hold on ♪ ♪ Yes, sisters and brothers, keep your eyes on the prize ♪ ♪ 'Cause we're building a dream, a dream never dies ♪ ♪ Hold on, hold on, hold on ♪ ♪ We're gonna rebuild America ♪ ♪ Keep hope of life ♪ ♪ We've got to rebuild America ♪ ♪ Keep hope of life ♪ ♪ We've got to rebuild America ♪ ♪ Our hearts on the prize ♪ ♪ That dream we are building never dies ♪ ♪ Hold on, hold on, hold on ♪ ♪ We are building never dies ♪ ♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh ♪ ♪ We're gonna rebuild America ♪ ♪ Our hearts on the prize ♪ - That's Ann Feeney, inspired by Jesse Jackson, to rebuild America, keep hope alive. By the way, I was wondering in that song, who are your backup singers? Who are the wonderful backup singers providing their voice? - It's John Fromer, it's Kim and Reggie Harris, and it's Janet Decker and Susan Lewis, Rebel Voices from Seattle. When I was doing this recording of "Have You Been To Jail for Justice" in Nashville, I flew Janet and Susan and Kim and Reggie and John down to sing with me on the album. And my friend, Jack Erwin, who was producing the recording for me said, "I can't believe you're flying people "in to sing on your album, and this is Nashville. "You can get anything you want here." And I thought, "You can't get my friends. "You can't get people that I've sung with on picket lines. "I'm the only one who can do that." So to get all my wonderful favorite people to sing with, down there, really supercharged, the recording. And as Jack was mixing it, he especially loved John Fromer's voice. He said, "My God, this is like heaven pops staples "in this studio, he just adored all of them." - Yeah, it's a lot of amazing voices all in one song, and then just pops with it. Let's go on with more music. I think the next one you're gonna do is about the medical situation, which you're seeing very up close these days. - It's true, the song we're going to listen to is one of the first songs I wrote about healthcare. I wrote it for "A Solidarity Day 1991." The theme of that year's Solidarity Day demonstration, which drew a million people to Washington, DC, was stop replacement workers, you know, scabs, and national healthcare now. So I wrote a song about scabs, and I wrote a song for national healthcare now. But I did it kind of grudgingly. I think I mentioned to you, I'm not a happy writer. I really have to feel like I have a gun to my head to pull out the pen and set it to paper. I've particularly resented writing the healthcare song because I was fairly certain that as soon as Clinton was elected, we would get national healthcare. And the song would be obsolete. Of course, we ended up using it a lot on the sing out for single-payer road show that I launched last summer trying to increase public awareness of the opportunity that was at hand and slipped through our fingers. - How crazy a world we live in. The song is "National Healthcare Now" by the fabulous Anthony. ♪ Anyone's fault and needs too soon ♪ ♪ You're a Joe baby and I see you ♪ ♪ Put a stage of dollar if you spend a dime ♪ ♪ What would visit Danny was a low-down cry ♪ ♪ Something gone wrong won't you tell me why ♪ ♪ With folks living the poor folks died ♪ ♪ Living is the thing that money can buy ♪ ♪ With folks living the poor folks died ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ Our comedy search just makes no sense ♪ ♪ Getting brand new liver at you to expand ♪ ♪ What penters class is hearing aids ♪ ♪ They're luxury items and they don't get paid ♪ ♪ Something gone wrong won't you tell me why ♪ ♪ With folks living the poor folks died ♪ ♪ Living is the thing that money can buy ♪ ♪ With folks living the poor folks died ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ When I've got to be stopped ♪ ♪ Checked up for free ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ Now they ain't know what's wrong with me ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ My healthcare benefit's gone away ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ With the lie that the company's called Jose ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ Something gone wrong won't you tell me why ♪ ♪ With folks living the poor folks died ♪ ♪ Living is the thing that money can buy ♪ ♪ With folks living the poor folks died ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ When the poor getting healthier is too damn hard ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ Got the bird world right here in our backyard ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ Listen up Mr. Jones and Mr. Dow ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ We want national healthcare now ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ We want national healthcare now ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ We want national healthcare now ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ We want national healthcare now ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ We want national healthcare now ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ We want national healthcare now ♪ (upbeat music) (upbeat music) ♪ National healthcare now and Fini ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ Line I like best is right towards the end there ♪ ♪ There's enough Mr. Jones and Mr. Dow ♪ ♪ We want our national healthcare now ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ I'm glad you like that ♪ ♪ I was pleased with it myself ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ It's too bad that you have to drag these songs out of you ♪ (laughs) (upbeat music) ♪ But unfortunately you choose the best of your own and of your friends ♪ ♪ And you told me earlier when I was talking to you ♪ ♪ That Peggy Seger was one of the people who's been inspirational to you ♪ ♪ How did she get into your lexicon of music? ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ I met Peggy Seger and you and McCall ♪ ♪ When they came to Pittsburgh to do a concert ♪ ♪ During the minor strike in England in 1989 ♪ ♪ The host in Pittsburgh who was presenting them ♪ ♪ Was actually very uncomfortable by their strong left-wing politics ♪ ♪ His only interest in their music was folklorists and the fabulous traditional songs they had collected ♪ ♪ And actually the Pittsburgh concert was not a benefit for the coal miners ♪ ♪ It was a traditional concert but they were on a tour raising money for the striking miners at that time ♪ ♪ My friend called me and asked me if I would mind taking you and Peggy around Pittsburgh ♪ ♪ They wanted to see some labor history ♪ ♪ Well I couldn't have been more thrilled ♪ ♪ That first meeting I'd say that you and definitely dominated the conversation ♪ ♪ But Peggy and I connected in other ways ♪ ♪ And then after that every time they came anywhere near Pittsburgh ♪ ♪ We would get together somewhere ♪ ♪ And I began performing ♪ ♪ I was going to be an engineer and also beside a fabulous song that she wrote about violence against women ♪ ♪ She has been such a thoughtful and loving wonderful friend to me ♪ ♪ And when I realized that I'm going to be an engineer, it's probably pushing 50 years old at this point ♪ ♪ And remains a staple of my repertoire ♪ ♪ It's going to be a pretty remarkable song to hold up that way ♪ ♪ And it absolutely changed my life to learn that song and internalize the meaning of every line in it ♪ ♪ When I was a little girl, I wish that was a boy ♪ ♪ I tagged along behind the gang and wore my corduroy ♪ ♪ Everybody said I needed only to ignore it ♪ ♪ But I was gonna be an engineer ♪ ♪ Mama said to me, why can't you be a lady ♪ ♪ Your duty is to make me the mother of a girl ♪ ♪ Wait until your older dear and baby ♪ ♪ You'll be glad that you're a girl ♪ ♪ Natey has a Dresden statue ♪ ♪ Gentle as a Jersey cow ♪ ♪ Smooth as silk gives creamy milk ♪ ♪ Learn to cook, learn to moo ♪ ♪ That's what to do to be a lady today ♪ ♪ Well then I went to school and learned to write and how to read ♪ ♪ Some history, geography, and home economy ♪ ♪ And typing is a skill that every girl is sure to need ♪ ♪ To while away the empty hours until it's time to breathe ♪ ♪ Then they'll have the nerve to say what would you like to be ♪ ♪ I said I'm gonna be an engineer ♪ ♪ No you only need to learn to be a lady ♪ ♪ The duty isn't yours for to try and run the world ♪ ♪ An engineer could never have a baby ♪ ♪ And just be glad that you're a girl ♪ ♪ So I became a typist and I studied on the slide ♪ ♪ Workin' all the day and night so I could qualify ♪ ♪ And every time my boss came in he pinched me on the slide ♪ ♪ Say I've never had an engineer ♪ ♪ Now you owe it to the job to be a lady ♪ ♪ It's the duty of the staff for to give the boss a whirl ♪ ♪ The way to set you get her crummy, maybe ♪ ♪ 'Cause all you get calls you're a girl ♪ ♪ She's smart for a woman ♪ ♪ I wonder how she got that way ♪ ♪ You get no choice, you got no voice ♪ ♪ Just stay numb, pretend you're dumb ♪ ♪ That's how you come to be a lady today ♪ ♪ Then Jimmy came along and we set up a conjugation ♪ ♪ We were busy every night at love and recreation ♪ ♪ And I went back to work so he could get his education ♪ ♪ And now he's an engineer ♪ ♪ He said I know you'll always want to be a lady ♪ ♪ It's the duty of my darling to love me all my life ♪ ♪ Could an engineer look after or obey me ♪ ♪ Remember, dear, that you're my wife ♪ ♪ As soon as Jimmy got a job I studied hard again ♪ ♪ Busy at my turret laid the year or so ♪ ♪ And then the morning that my twins were born ♪ ♪ Jimmy says to them, "Kids, your mother was an engineer!" ♪ ♪ Now you owe it to the kids to be a lady ♪ ♪ Dainty as a dish rag faithful as a child ♪ ♪ Stay at home, you gotta find the babies ♪ ♪ Remember you're a mother now ♪ ♪ What prize for a woman ♪ ♪ You can fire for a band of gold ♪ ♪ You get a hook or a nurse ♪ ♪ For better or worse ♪ ♪ To love and obey without any pay ♪ ♪ You don't need a purse when a lady is sold ♪ ♪ Now every time I turn around there's something else to do ♪ ♪ Mend a softer cook a meal or sweep a floor or two ♪ ♪ Listen to the morning soaks ♪ ♪ It makes me wanna spew I was gonna be an engineer ♪ ♪ Oh I really wish that I could be a lady ♪ ♪ I do the lovely things that a lady's supposed to do ♪ ♪ I wouldn't mind if only they would pay me ♪ ♪ Then I could be a person too ♪ ♪ Well then the times got harder and my Jimmy got this app ♪ ♪ I went on down to pickers they were glad to have me back ♪ ♪ I'm just a third class citizen my wages tell me that ♪ ♪ But I'm the first class engineer ♪ ♪ My boss said I pay you as a lady ♪ ♪ You only got this job cause I can't afford a man ♪ ♪ With you I keep the profit I ask maybe ♪ ♪ You're just a cheaper pair of hands ♪ ♪ You got one phone you're a woman ♪ ♪ You're not worth the equal pay ♪ ♪ A bitch or a tart you're nothin' but a heart ♪ ♪ A shallow and vain you got no brain ♪ ♪ Go down the drain like a lady today ♪ ♪ Well I listened to my mother and I joined a typing pool ♪ ♪ I listened to my lover and I put him through his school ♪ ♪ I listened to my boss that I am just another fool ♪ ♪ And an underpaid engineer ♪ ♪ I've been a sucker ever since I was a baby ♪ ♪ As a mother, as a wife, as a daughter, as a deer ♪ ♪ I'll fight them as a woman, not a lady ♪ ♪ I'll fight them as an engineer ♪ And Finney's version of a Peggy Seeker song. I'm going to be an engineer. We did have Peggy here on Spirit and Action. I also headed for my Song of the Soul program. Quite a prolific musician over the decades. A lot of good music, including, of course, that one. You know, that was something close to, we'd call it a hit for Peggy. Of course, those of us in the, I don't know, the folk music realm, a hit is something kind of rare. It's, you know, Peter, Paul, and Mary had hits. But you mentioned that the first song that you shared today, "Have you been to jail for justice" is kind of your big hit. By that, do you mean that you get radio play or you just get human play? Well, actually, that song was recorded by Peter, Paul, and Mary and featured in several films, including a German documentary called, "Get Up, Stand Up, the History of Pop and Protest." And I was so thrilled to be in this because it starts off with Billy Holiday singing "Strange Fruit" goes to Paul Robeson singing "Joe Hill." And then when they asked Peter, Paul, and Mary to pick a song out of their repertoire that they thought was one of the greatest protests of all time, they selected "Have you been to jail for justice?" Which just tickled me no end. Because of that kind of exposure, it has been ticked up by activists everywhere. I got a call last March from a guy in Tel Aviv, whose wife was in the Israeli army and refused to serve in Gaza. And they had thrown her into jail. And while she was in jail, someone had come to visit her and sung her, "Have you been to jail for justice?" And she said to her husband, "I want you to find a man who wrote that song and tell him how much it's meant to me. It's just an amazing song." He said, "I can't even begin to tell you how happy she was to find out that the man who wrote the song is a woman." Congratulations. It's wonderful to be able to do that kind of planting of good things in the world. Well, you've done a lot more music that's doing good for the world, different topics, different issues. There's certainly no shortage of injustices to be righted in the world. Which one do you want to tackle next? I thought I would continue on with the song by another writer and also put in my little plug for the whole idea that this whole singer/songwriter/genre gives me a rash. There were very few people I could think of who I could listen to, their original music all night long. There are so many great songs that are not being circulated, that are not being heard, that are not being performed anymore. It's just really important to pay attention to other voices. And this song comes from one of my favorite voices in contemporary political satire, Roy Zimmerman. He's just a genius. And I love the insidious nature of this song. It's called "Defenders of Marriage." I looked forever for a song that really said what I wanted to say. I wasn't clever enough to write this song, but I was certainly glad to learn it. Now every time you think about same-sex marriage, do you get sick to your guts? I mean, two people who want to commit to a stable, monogamous, lifelong relationship, what are they, nuts? It's unnatural. A man must never lie with a person who is a guy. He should only lie to his wife, the Bible is clear. We're "Defenders of Marriage" in three-button suits. We'll raise our double standard and see who's salutes. "Defenders of Marriage" defending the institution from people who want to get married. Now every time we think about same-sex parents, oh my gosh, we exclaim. I mean, two people who want to provide a protective and nurturing family environment, have they no shame? It's so deviant. It's the Lord's holy word. As my second wife said to my third, that a family's based on obligation and fear. We're "Defenders of Marriage" a new meal narks. And the vigilant patriotic, matriarchs, "Defenders of Marriage" defending the institution from people who want to get married. So what do you think? Are people born gay or do they just turn gay to annoyed Dick Cheney and Dick Army? We're an army of Dick's, from militant stance. Getting the government off our backs and into our pants. "Defenders of Marriage" defending the institution from people who want to get married. Have their insurance carried, be beneficiary. And be with the ones they love when they are buried. "Defenders of Marriage" by Roy Simmerman, performed by Anne Feeney. Some great, great lines in there. And you deliver those lines very, very well, you know Anne. One of the lines that just tickles my fancy is, "It's the Lord's holy word as my second wife said to my third." And that's just so true. The legislator is pushing, you know, for defensive marriage. They've got that kind of situation. They're desecrating it personally and that I do like to treat marriage as a very important thing. Important commitment, central, but the idea of denying it to someone else. The beginning of that, where Roy wrote, "How people must be so sick about the fact that two people want to commit to a stable monogamous relationship." Yes, I haven't figured out how that threatens traditional marriage. Yeah, well, any club that they're in, I don't want to be part of, I guess, is probably a thought. When I was a teen, I remember someone would call you a queer, which you knew had something to do with these deviant people who wanted to have sex with everyone. To go from that to you don't want people to settle down in stable relationships, so you want them to be that way? It's just not clear to me what people are fighting or what is clear to me is that people are fighting a myth more than a reality. Any places where you've been booed for singing that song, anybody come out at you with the hatchet because you're talking about gays there? Well, one of the most intense moments was at a lovely house concert. There were about 40 people in the house concert, and there was a middle-aged black woman sitting in the front row as I sang, "Every time you think about same-sex marriage, do you get sick to your guts?" She said, "Yeah." Ooh, bumpy ride ahead. That's in your seat belt, expect turbulence for the next minute nap. That woman and I ended up exchanging emails, and she said that even though she disagreed with the song and she didn't think that she could ever support gay marriage, that she did find herself laughing at the hypocrisy and that she absolutely was not part of the religious right, and that she personally could never work for or advocate for a bill that would interfere with the rights of gay people. So I thought, "Eh, you know, not everybody's ready to go to the exact same place at the same time, but there's room for her in my tent." Having a tent that's big enough to allow more people in is a real step in the right direction. And really, it was music that changed my mind about so many issues. It was music that, in many ways, convinced me of the importance of civil rights, watching those brave, incredible young people singing as they blew water cannons on them and police dogs. It was stunning. It was stunning. So much of the music fill-ups, this music convinced me that the Vietnam War was wrong. Yeah, it has a way of getting in past the usual defenses so you can actually start thinking about something, have a different image. It can paint a different image, I think, in your soul, and so the stereotype or the prejudice or whatever you've been carrying, the rote behavior you've been carrying, you can re-examine and go forward, perhaps. Yes. Where did you learn that the whole pro-corporation culture of the United States was an abomination? I'd say it's a lesson that's been thinking in gradually because you're almost the same age I am. We're TV kids. We all grew up knowing all these corporate slogans and believing. Yeah, my mother was very brand conscious. When I went to the store for her, there were exact brands that I was supposed to get because she bought the whole corporate spiel that, you know, there was a difference between the brands. And, I mean, I was much, much older when my father lost the job he had had for 39 years. You know, it was forced into retirement. I began to see that his loyalty and devotion and self-sacrifice to the company that he worked for was pretty much in vain. But I saw that scenario played out thousands of times around the country as heartless, rotten, profitable companies closed their doors rather than continue paying a living wage to their workers. I think I was kind of late waking up to it. I was in the end of college and a candidate for the Socialist Workers Party. Peter Kmail came to my campus and he talked about how so many people were, you know, just kicking the poor people for getting a little bit of money for welfare while we're giving huge amounts away to the big cats. You know, they're already rich, so we'll give them another $100 billion and we're siphing things into their pockets. And I think you got a song that says this really nicely. How about "Chariant"? I was going to say, of all the topics that I have tried to address in song, I think this was the most complex. I've discovered the great utility of the polka, the majesty of the polka. You can express really complex ideas. There are plenty of syllables to go around. It's just a wonderful, wonderful musical form to explain complex ideas. And this corporate welfare polka just kind of poured out of my pen. I honestly had just kind of written it as a joke for one show. But at the end of the night, my friend Steve Brooks was on the bill as well, and he said, "That song's a keeper, and I wouldn't get rid of it." And I have noticed that even people who think that they'll never sing along on a chorus will sing along on the chorus to this one. It's time to end welfare as we know it, and get those greedy chistlers off the toll. It's time to end welfare as we know it. Teach them a little self-control. For far too long we've allowed these corporate hogs to belly up to the public trough. No more welfare as we know it, no more handouts cut them off. Now we should all be irate at this huge welfare state. Right here in this mightiest of nations. AFDC is disgraceful to me. I'm talking eight for dependent corporations. Free enterprise, the cruelest of lies that cost us $200 billion just last year. If they pay their fair share, we'd have billions this fair. It's time to tell them the butts stop here. Let's consider Charlie Hurwitz, the CEO at Max Am. Holding redwood forests hostage in a vicious little tax scam. It's clear cut we picked up the tab for Charlie's union busting. And paid him to pollute our water, Jesus, that's disgusting. Charlie won't repay 500 million that he stole. From a Houston SNL, let's say we kick him off the toll. It's time to end welfare as we know it. And get those greedy chistlers off the toll. It's time to end welfare as we know it. Teach them a little self-control. For far too long we've allowed these corporate hogs to belly up to the public trough. No more welfare as we know it. No more handouts, cut them off. That Taco Bell chihuahua begs for bucks for Fredo Le. And Hoppin' Fresh from Pillsbury needs more dough every day. That thief Ronald McDonald and his sidekick Mayor McCheesy. Hamburglarize our treasury in ways that make me queasy. That nasty little mermaid took tax dollars overseas. To hire thugs to bring poor Haitian workers to their knees. It's time to end welfare as we know it. And get those greedy chistlers off the toll. It's time to end welfare as we know it. Teach them a little self-control. For far too long we've allowed these corporate hogs to belly up to the public trough. No more welfare as we know it. No more handouts, cut them off. They've been picking every pocket here from sea to shining sea. We must intervene to break this cycle of dependency. ADM and Kargill General Motors poured in bowing. ITT and Lockheed and that welfare line keeps growing, growing, growing. Now Congress says we can't afford to subsidize the needy. But before we slash the safety net, let's tell the truly greedy. We're gonna end welfare as we know it. And get those greedy chistlers off the toll. We're gonna end welfare as we know it. Teach them a little self-control. For far too long we've allowed these corporate hogs to belly up to the public trough. No more welfare as we know it. No more handouts, cut them off. It's for their own good. No more handouts, cut them off. And this means stadium. No more handouts, cut them off. The corporate welfare song and fini with us here today for Spirit in Action. I'm your host, Mark Helpsmeet, for this northern spirit radio production. Our website is northernspiritradio.org. Go to our website. You can hear the entire selection of what we've been playing for the last five years. Both Song the Soul, Spirit in Action and a few other things. And you can leave comments and you can find links to our guests. Like Anne Fini, go to her site. She's got a blog down there. She's got a schedule. I think it's kind of empty right now because I think you're probably holding off until you feel a little bit clearer about when you're going to be up and about. Is there any guests at all when that might be? I'm afraid there really isn't. My future is very uncertain at the moment. There's a very good chance that I'll be on Social Security disability and retired on the Musician's Union Pension Fund come February of next year. And the ability that I'll have to work is going to be substantially limited. There was one thing I had to ask you about the corporate welfare song in there. At one point, there's some really nice pig snorts. I wanted to know who did those. Those were mine. I'm so glad that you recognized yet another hidden talent of mine. And I can do a lovely snort on command at any time. Sounds like a talent cultivated in your youth and continued on. Yes, I can also burp on command. I think that was something I learned at a Catholic Girl School. Many great talents to be a proper folk musician. One thing I haven't asked you much about during this interview and is religious and spiritual outlook. I recall that you were raised Catholic, as was I, and you got out of that. Can you say anything about your spiritual outlook these days? If not your religious outlook. Well, I've got to say that I don't really subscribe to any religious program of any sort and am unlikely to. If somebody held a gun to my head and told me I had to pick a religion, I'd probably be a Unitarian. But I am actually very happy not having an official religion. I know many people of faith who find that they get great comfort and strength in their lives from their faith. I am not one of those people. I guess what it was was I was an anthropology major as an undergraduate. The first time that I realized that as the Winter Solstice approached that some people were lighting eulogues and other people were lighting menoras and other people were putting up Christmas lights. Well, it just became too transparent for me. Actually, in the face of the rapacious and greedy destruction of this beautiful planet, to see the way religions supplanted a regard for the natural world and the change of the seasons and the respect for the environment makes it even harder for me to do religion as anything other than smudge screen for a time when we really should be much more in tune with the rhythms of the earth and the future of the planet. I think we're just going to make ourselves unsustainable as a species pretty soon. I always joke when the alien anthropologists get here in 10,000 years, they will say, "What, what's the matter with these people?" They had everything, the most incredible variety of food, the most abundant, clean water, beautiful soil. Why did they spray poison on their food and then wonder why they got sick? Sometimes I think we're just so foolish and so crazy we're going to deserve whatever we get. But I digress from your question. I'm very grateful that I didn't raise my children with religion. It seems to me that both of my kids are extremely ethical and moral. I don't know exactly where it comes from. I think it's something that you learn by example. I was wondering if maybe the closest thing to religion in your life was the union, because one of the important functions I believe of religion is to bring people together with common values and have them live them out. Certainly there's no need for a personal god-type thing. Buddhism doesn't even have one. So maybe the union is something close to your congregation. Well, I suppose at least the philosophy, you know, what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one, and it has solidarity forever. Good question. And I think the whole notion that our lives are interconnected and that our success depends on our ability to cooperate is certainly a worthy principle. But honestly, I draw the principles that guide my life from all sorts of different situations. It also instructs constantly. And I think that that's a very important thing. And I think that's a very important thing. And I think that's a very important thing. I don't know. I don't know. I love my rest of men's comment. I'll just let the mystery be. I don't feel like I have to sort all of that out. There's always the next right thing to go to and fix and stay on. And it keeps me very busy without spending too much time pondering the larger mystery. Well, speaking of the next right thing to go to, how about the next right song to go to? And I think it's your last for today for spirit and action. Yes, I've got to say how much I've enjoyed your company and this interview. I want to congratulate you for keeping the show on all these years and doing such wonderful community broadcasting. It's so important. So this little song I wrote during the A.E. Staley strike. It was a labor war that went on in the Midwest for seven or eight years and did not have a happy ending, unfortunately. But sometimes when you see the little tiny group of strikers that are assembled against the forces of international corporate greed, it's a miracle that we ever win any of them, frankly. This is a particularly stunning group of well-organized workers working a lot with my friend Jerry Tucker. It was a very difficult time and I could not get these people to sing to say they're soul. It's just terrible. Nothing I could do would get them to sing. And I really do feel strongly that a group of people singing together becomes much more powerful than a group of people that won't sing together. So I've got to come up with something where even people who hate to sing will sing along. That's pretty much how the chorus on this song evolved. And sure enough, I have never found a group of people who refused to sing this. It's one of the best rallies songs I've ever written. I've updated it and changed it over the years and I'm very pleased to report that I won the Union Privilege song contest this morning with a $2,000 prize for the song we're going to listen to now and it's called "War on the Workers." It's Warren the Workers and Finney taking us out for today's spirit in action. Listen up, we've got a war zone here today right in our heartland. And across the USA, these multinational bastards don't use tanks and guns, it's true. They have to pet 'em, war on us, fight back, it's up to you. War on the Workers. War on the Workers. War on the Workers. War on the Workers. War on the Workers. War on the Workers. War on the Workers. And it's time we start a call in the show. We're going to work, could be the death of you and me, but we're not unarmed, our weapon's solidarity, jimbills and caron so cool, the list goes on and on, with every year that passed the 60,000 mark on, it's a war on the worker, it's a war on the worker, it's a war on the workers, and it's time we start to call. When they boost your copay, don't you know what to say, let's up privatization, and cooperation, when they call you a team, better learn how to scream, oh that's a war on the workers, and it's time we start to call on the shots. That's a war on the workers, it's a war on the workers, it's a war on the workers, and it's time we start to call on the shots. They can lock us out, they can lock us up, we cannot give in, no more lies, no compromise, we'll battle till we win all, it's a war on the workers, it's a war on the workers, it's a war on the workers, and it's time we start to call on the shots. When they talk flexibility, every work on stiff can see, when they poison your water, don't pull like lambs through the slaughter, when they fall up the air, got to show if you care, when they talk WTO, it best be screaming hell no, that's a war on the workers, it's a war on the workers, it's a war on public education, it's a war on child labor protection, it's a war on the eight hour day, it's a war on occupational health and safety, it's a war on social security, now thanks to WTO, GATT, NAFTA, M.A.I.T.I.M.F. and the World Bank, it's a world wide war, oh it's a war on the workers, it's a war on the workers, it's a war on the workers, it's a war on the workers, it's a war on the workers, it's a war on the workers, it's a war on the workers, it's a war on the workers, it's a war on the workers, it's a war on the workers, it's a war on the workers, it's a war on the workers, it's a war on the workers, and it's time we start to call on the shots. So it's time right now, I said it's time we started calling the shots. The theme music for this program is "Turning of the World" performed by Sarah Thompson. This spirit in action program is an effort of Northern Spirit Radio. You can listen to our programs and find links and information about us and our guests on our website, northernspiritradio.org. Thank you for listening. I am your host, Mark Helpsmeet, and I welcome your comments and stories of those leading lives of spiritual fruit. May you find deep roots to support you and grow steadily toward the light. This is spirit in action. With every voice, with every song, we will move this world along. With every voice, with every song, we will move this world along. And our lives will feel the echo of our healing.