Spirit in Action
Update from Iraq: Sami Rasouli Back in the USA
Sami Rasouli returned to Iraq after more than 20 years in the USA to rebuild the country and found the Muslim Peacemaker Teams. Combining love of his birthplace in Iraq with love of his home in the Midwest, Sami lets us see the people of both places as "us".
Music Featured:
Shekhani - Chaldean Folk Dance from Iraq
- Broadcast on:
- 22 Aug 2010
- Audio Format:
- other
[music] ♪ Let us sing this song for the healing of the world ♪ ♪ That we may hear as one ♪ ♪ With every voice of every song ♪ ♪ We will move this world along ♪ ♪ And our lives will feel the echo of our healing ♪ ♪ With every voice of every song ♪ Welcome to Spirit in Action. My name is Mark Helpes Me. Each week, I'll be bringing you stories of people living lives of fruitful service, of peace, community, compassion, creative action, and progressive efforts. I'll be tracing the spiritual roots that support and nourish them in their service, hoping to inspire and encourage you to sink deep roots and produce sacred fruit in your own life. ♪ Let us sing this song for the dreaming of the world ♪ ♪ That we may dream as one ♪ ♪ With every voice of every song ♪ ♪ We will move this world along ♪ Today for Spirit in Action, we're going to be welcoming back Sami Rasuli. Sami spent the first 24 years of his life in Iraq, then headed west to North America. He settled in the Minneapolis area and started Sin Bads, a Middle Eastern restaurant. After the USA took down the government of Saddam Hussein, Sami felt a call to return home to help the people in the place of his birth. A call that eventually led to the formation of the Muslim peacemaker teams. He's been with us for Spirit in Action before, twice, and I got a chance to get an update on Iraq when Sami was visiting back in the area several months ago. Sami Rasuli is a brave and passionate worker for peace, providing a compassionate view from the ground in Iraq. He joins us by phone from the Twin Cities of Minnesota. - Sami, I'm so glad you could join me again for Spirit in Action. - Well, it's my pleasure to be in your show, Mark, thank you. - And this is the third time I've seen you in Eau Claire. How long is this particular travel of yours around the Midwest or wherever else you're going? How long is this for before you go back to Iraq? - Another four weeks, I'll be leaving back to Iraq. - Of course, you have family here and you have family there. You've got some tender, young new babies there, don't you? - I do have two years and two months, young son. His name is Omar. And his older brother, Tarik, who visited him last August. Of course, Tarik was born in the United States of America from previous marriage. So he called his little brother, that's the unlucky brother, poor brother, who was born in Iraq because he feels like in the US. He got everything and he's getting everything for granted. Therefore, in comparison, I have two sons. One is born in the US and the other born in Iraq. One is lucky and the other not lucky. One is occupying the other one, lands. - Of course, this may look very different from actually having lived in Iraq right now. I think from the point of view of most Americans, that would be a scary place to be bringing up a family right now. Do you worry for your family there while you're back here? - Well, to worry always when you be in Iraq, you never know because still Iraq is a war zone. It's occupied and anything could happen. Politically, the country is in a stable. And despite the fact that the US forces have left the cities and stationed there on their bases since June 30th, 2009, still there are lots of violent actions going on across Iraq. But Najaf is south of Baghdad, about 100 miles relatively safer. As I said, to be in Iraq is a challenge, but the real challenge to have a family in Iraq, because again, you have to be the best father for your kids, the best husband for your wife to provide a reasonable, decent environment for your family. But in Iraq is the case. Basic public services are not available. Mainly water is polluted and terminated. So we have lots of kids are infected by hepatitis A, B, or typhus. As a father, I'm trying my best as a husband also. I'm trying my best to provide what I can do, but always because the whole country is traumatized by the environment of the violence and wars for the last two decades. I can tell you it's difficult to be in Iraq, it's difficult to live in Iraq. - And yet you chose to go back there. Now this was again after the 2003, the American forces go into Iraq and Saddam, his government is taken down. You made a decision to go back to give up what you have here and move back to Iraq. I'm sure that along the way, many people must have told you you're crazy. What was the motivation for you? Do you feel still strong and clear in that motivation? - Absolutely, yes. Actually the people who called me crazy, they were friends of mine here in the US. They are my American fellow citizens and also the Iraqi fellow citizens, sisters and brothers. When they learned that my travel to Iraq was permanent at least for five years. That's why it's my initial plan to stay there and working for peace and justice to promote human rights and security. Both people that I know ascribe me as insane to leave my comfortable home in the US, the secure life and business comfortable car, the family, community and friends and head as salmon up this dream going to where my birthplace is Iraq. But I've been working for the last five years in Iraq trying to bring communities together from different spots in Iraq and also trying to bring Iraqi people with the American people together building bridges and do my part toward peace building. So I can tell you this, both sides who called me insane, crazy, to go back to Iraq, they realized how important my work and my colleagues within the Muslim peacemaker teams, activities for the last five years, because we crowned our activities by having the city of Najaf, my hometown by birth and my hometown, Minneapolis, by choice, we brought them together. Last July 30th, both cities were announced as sister cities according to their sister city programs and actually the boat went unanimously and the Minneapolis city council. So last time I came from Iraq in September 18th, there were 13 Iraqi delegates traveling with me, challenging and actually they broke down all the psychological barriers to come and meet their counterparts, their brothers and sisters in Minneapolis so that successful event where Iraqis sit down with their friends, the Americans facing them and looking in the eyes and exchanging their cultures, breaking bread together and building bridges of peace rather than war and animosity. So I thought, wow, the Iraqis supposed to be the terrorists and the Americans who are meeting them supposed to be infidels, how could be this to be happened according to the mainstream media that had helped the previous administrations and two terms to launch its war against terror. And we remember that the previous administration led by the president, George Bush, was telling and addressing the American people that the US forces got to be in Iraq because Iraq became the central front for terrorism. And now a simple communication that was created by humble work of Muslim peacemaker teams in Iraq and the Iraqi American reconciliation project in Minneapolis. It took them only 12 months to work hard and humbly they could connect both people where the Iraqis met hundreds and hundreds of their friends and Minneapolis and they signed memorandum of understandings with different affiliations and agencies, universities, healthcare centers, schools, the 13 Iraqis left Minneapolis in October 3rd but still the locals here are talking about their rich experience of their meetings with their counterparts in the Iraqis and also the Iraqis have gone but they kept educating thousands of their fellow citizens in the city of Najaf by holding conferences, workshops and meetings and educating them, telling them about their rich experience that took place in Minneapolis for two weeks. And actually for those who are listening have they Google the name of Steve Clemens. He wrote a tease about his experience because he was the designated van driver who drove the 13 delegates. He wrote a nice piece titled "The Face of the Enemy." It's posted on the internet so listeners could review that and read the powerful stories of his experience. So again, my travel back to Iraq was not in vain. It's resulted in bringing not only the Iraqis together from different places in Najaf and Fallujah, Najafram Ali, Soleimani, Herpiel and with the South Ambassador in Austria but also the people from Iraq connect them with the people of America and Minneapolis where the Iraqi delegates were hosted by Generos host families and they got rotated so they to learn more about the true image of American people that was destroyed by the first Gulf War in 1991 and the second Gulf War in 2003. And also by the Western movies that portrayed that the U.S. culture, the U.S. people are really tends to be arrogant, powerful, their communications with others based on force and violent and wars. This is the experiences that the Iraqis learned about America but those 13 Iraqis saw the other side. The peaceful people, the people who are not agreeing with what happened and always they indicated to the Iraqis that the war and the occupation is not in their name. So that's kind of success we've been doing and we show that also the cost of peace doing is much, much less than what we are spending since 2003. We're putting about $12 billion among just to have our forces in Iraq and that's $720 million a day each minute passes by costing us $500,000 that half a million dollars. And while we're here suffering the economy is not doing well, the government intervened and built out the bankers and well, the Wall Street while lots of people, main street is still suffering. Lots of people are losing their homes while more than 40 millions have no healthcare coverage. So my travel as well, lots of good work that people are involved in to build bridges and do their parts of peace building. It's really important to continue. Therefore, we probably have the real change reached but reached by the grassroots movement by the people. There is an old Arab proverb that says, if you want to make a basket, you have to start. You are weaving from down up that what we need in order to accomplish change in our culture and understanding to see others and also to see the rest of the world differently. - Could you talk a little bit specifically, Sammy, about the Sister City's arrangement? They've agreed there's some kind of interchange and certainly people from Iraq came to Minneapolis, from Najaf came to Minneapolis. Doesn't the visitation go in the other direction too? Are there Americans going to visit you at home in Najaf? - Yes, and that's getting planned to have a counter delegation to leave next year, February or March, to go to visit their counterparts in Iraq and consolidate the Sister City activities. And actually, the Sister City Program was first brought up by President White Eisenhower in 1956. Sister City Program, it's a diplomacy that people to people contact reaching out where people become friends and they build bridges of communication. Mr. Eisenhower added also that the diplomacy of the governments will be affected so only governments change what people stay as long. Their relationships, Sister City's relationships continue and get status that sustainable, continuous interaction. So we started our activities in this area even before the resolution was issued by the Minneapolis City Council members. We did our work like connecting the University of Minnesota with the University of Kufa and Najaf more than a year ago and they were in touch as well we connected the law organizations such as a group of artists and writers are situated in Minneapolis with their counterpart, the National Reform for Cultural Activities and Reflection and Najaf. So when we brought the delegation, those heads of the organization, they met together besides that we accomplished another pairing of the St. John's of Ark with Horizon. Ahfak means Horizons which deals with the religious issue and other strategic studies and both sides are working to have a dialogue take place between two seminaries, the Shi'a Islam seminaries and Najaf and the Christian seminaries and the area of Minneapolis. Women organizations that deal with the human rights, human rights and children and other areas are connected with their counterpart in Minneapolis as well and Najaf and also a part of these activities. There are a hundred schools in Najaf are pairing with another hundred schools of their counterpart and the area of Minneapolis and surrounding a region. These activities are really continuing getting the interest of the people who are learning about it. So when I travel around and talk about this, other people want to establish their chapters of the organization called Iraqi-American Reconciliation Project to seek similar actions like the sister city relationship like their cities to be linked with another Iraqi sister city. And also there were some people who are interested, young people interested in Massachusetts who heard about our activities and they traveled, came here and met with our son and now we're linking them with the University of Baghdad and young people, students, men and women there to be having an exchange of pin pounds. And it looks like these type of activities, people are really right now becoming aware of its importance and they are getting involved in starting their own hailing process to correct their relationship between Iraq and the U.S. which has already have been broken, has been broken since 2003. - You're listening to a Northern Spirit radio production called Spirit In Action and I'm Mark Helpsmeet. Our website is northernspiritradio.org. And today we're visiting with Sami Razuli, Iraqi-born resident of Minneapolis for 20 years before returning to Iraq to rebuild the country and help found Muslim peacemaker teams. Sami, how bad is that relationship right now between the U.S. and Iraq from the point of view of the Iraqis? I think that back in 2003, many Iraqis were very thankful to be free of Saddam Hussein's tyranny, but that pretty soon that feeling changed to one of mistrust as the U.S. occupation of Iraq extended on and on. How is the sentiment there now in general? - Well, you said maybe back in the beginning of 2003 when the Iraqis felt dictatorship has been deposed and the regime of Saddam has come, but right now when the Iraqis look back, they feel like they missed a lot because security is not reached yet in Iraq and basic public services are not there. The education system is collapsing as well the healthcare system. The country is still not led by capable government which the government is described by the international transparency organization as the most corrupted government in the world. And actually the Iraqi government is competing with the Somalia, Haiti, and Myanmar, and the corruption area. The Iraqis are very much disappointed. The people that actually I meet and talk to in the area of Najaf, that as the U.S. mainstream media described that the war was for democratizing Iraq and freeing Iraq, but it looks like the Iraqis had been occupied and the foreign forces tell on the Iraqi soil and even Iraqi government is not in control of its assets according to chapter seven, which was a resolution. Your end resolution was imposed back on 1991, a war when Saddam invaded Kuwait. This resolution is still crippling the Iraqi sovereignty because Iraqis are not in control of their assets. While the UN gave the proxy to the U.S. and the U.S. invaded and occupied Iraq, so the U.S. is controlling that area. Now mentioning all these things, the political situation is not normal and accepted by an average Iraqi because there are many Iraqi political factions that were driven to be out of the country since 2003. So when we will have a type of election next year, definitely the election will be limited to those who came with the occupying forces, mostly outsiders, Iraqi who live outside of the country. They just, the same people, keep alternating the power from group to another group, but the Iraqis who are opposing the continuous occupation and opposing to privatize the country and mainly the production of the oil, which was nationalized years ago in 1972. The Iraqi oil industry was nationalized, but now has been privatized just because the cream of the crop of the society, the middle class society, the experts of oil, the experts of water management, the teachers, the medical doctors, the engineers, the professionals, the most respected scholars were killed or imprisoned, kidnapped, tortured or forced to be out of the country. You may know there are 650 scientists were killed during the last six years and a half, by the Mossad and the Israeli intelligence agency, which is in Iraq right now interfering in the Iraqi formation of its future as the U.S. forces were protecting them and actually using them as their own advisors. So the Iraqis, the most fearsome aspect to see Iraq will be divided into the country is because that what the vice president, Mr. Biden fought fiercely to have a bell was signed by the Congress in 2007. So lots of cards are really mixed particularly, especially in Iraq and Iraq. Today's is unstable and secure. Iraqis are feeling they are facing a dead end to live in Iraq. So those who are capable financially to leave, they leave, some of them they sell their houses and pay their life earnings just to get out of this dead end. The war also I should mention produced more than 3 million widows and 5 millions orphans, its tragic. So this is how an average Iraqi feel about Iraq. I certainly heard that things were pretty bad during the sanctions, that is after the first Gulf War and before the second invasion of Iraq by the U.S. I heard that things were pretty bad in Iraq because a lot of the very needed medical and technical aid was not able to get in. So how does this period right now, how does that compare say to 2000 when the sanctions were having very negative effects on Iraq? - Well, right after the 1991 war, you said that Iran resolution imposed in Iraq to impose sanctions against economical sanction that Iraq couldn't sell that oil freely as before. And I mentioned that also beside that chapter seven, which is a UN resolution that stripped the Iraqis their control of assets, Iraqi society at that time and before the sanction. And actually before the invasion was known as a middle class society that were able to rebuild all the bombed bridges, government buildings, the communication center and the electricity, national grids over in Iraq all were bombed. You remember the U.S. got rid of 350 tons of depleted uranium in form of illegal emissions. So the middle class, the engineers, the professionals and the technicians, they were able to rebuild at least halfway what had been damaged. But after the invasion, this middle class, the professionals are driven out of the country if they are not killed, kidnapped or imprisoned. This really became more difficult now. We know we lost lots of people during the sanctions, more than 500,000 children couldn't make it to the age of five. That now is at least three times more than that because we're having now the effect of those oxidants resulted by the depleted uranium usage. Because in 2003, there were again 150 tons of depleted uranium weapons. So in the city of Fallujah, that suffered a lot. In August 2009, there were 117 newborn babies who were born in Fallujah, 25% of them, they were not able to make it within the first seven days they died and those mostly were deformed. And Fallujah suffered a lot in two attacks in April and November 2004. Illegal weapons were used in operation of Fallujah where about 350,000 were asked to leave their homes. But they left their young men guarding their homes and the result, 30,000 houses were destroyed. 5,000 of them were completely flattened. Masks were attacked and people inside the mosque were worshiping, got killed. So the depleted uranium was used beside the white bastards and cluster bombs too. And Fallujah, as I learned, they were asked not to touch anything when they were allowed to go back and here now we hear about the devastating news, how much the different poisonings by the weapons are affecting the life of newborn babies as well the grownups because the cancer rates are really staggering in Iraq. I learned this from my colleague Mr. Askuri, the scientist, the citizen scientist that's saying, another doctor, that member of Muslim peacemaker teams explaining an average incidence of cancers like eight to 12 per 100,000 of people, it's universally accepted. But in 2007, they did research in the city of Najafan. They found that rate gone up four times. So 28 people have cancer per 100,000 people while in 2009 they did another research where they found more than 65 cases of cancer per 100,000. So people are dying in Iraq, not only by flying bullets or explosions of bombs or air force rates and bombing, but other different diseases today in Iraq. - I wanna ask you a little bit, Samia, about the work you're doing with the Muslim peacemaker teams. First of all, I don't believe that when you headed over to Iraq, that you had clearly in mind the idea of doing these Muslim peacemaker teams, what were you intending to do when you headed there and how did the idea of Muslim peacemaker teams come to you? - This is a good question. Actually, the reason that made me to go back to Iraq, it was for me like a way of healing to go and live with the people who are subjugated to this kind of illegal war and see what they need and work with them and try to explain where I lived previously in the Western Hemisphere and how was my experience as rich and wonderful to live here. But I was not clear about what I'm gonna do, but I felt like I was driven by a sense of urgency and I felt I'm in a mission to do something. And while I was heading there, I thought maybe I should go back and teach as I was before I left back in 1976. If that is not the case, couldn't get my employment back. So I could probably do something sweeping and cleaning and help my community to be educated about the importance of some social activities that we should promote and take parts and be sustained, resilient and self-sufficient toward the amount of the destruction that applied against Iraq. So until I met a group of people called themselves Christian peacemaker teams and I was surprised and profoundly impressed by their work. I wasn't the only one, but we met an institution called the Human Rights Watch in the city of Kerbala where my brother-in-law works. There are also the members of this institution who were impressed. So 15 of us asked them to train us and they did for a week and we became Muslim peacemaker teams after their model, the Christian peacemaker teams. And actually we joined the projects together. The first one was in the city of Fallujah where we appeared in the main street and announced sweeping the streets, cleaning and picking up garbage. The Fallusions were surprised to see us there. We were not only Arabs from Iraq, but they were members of Christian peacemaker teams representing three countries, US, UK and Canada. And that was very effective action. Actually, the Fallusions were touched when they knew that we were from Najaf and Kerbala and other international countries. And they asked us not to touch the garbage anymore or because they got the message through the symbolic action and invited us to pray with them towards a Friday and about noon. So we did pray with them. We spent actually after the prayer, a wonderful time eating a big feast that they prepared for us and the home of the prominent Sheikh Naimi who owned the mosque for Fallujah. Al-Kobacy, I'm sorry, Abdulman al-Kobacy. And at that time we stayed a talk and exchanging lots of stories and talking about the history, educating those three foreign and peace activists, the Christian peacemaker teams. It was like half a day from nine in the morning to 6 p.m. where we were seen off at the end of that day. And by the way, we haven't turned any bullet or any explosion took place at that. It was very peaceful. And we capitalized on that success and we did many visits back and forth. So with the Christian peacemaker teams, we had many joint projects and they support our work until they were devastated by the loss of Tom Fox, who was kidnapped and Baghdad and found four months later killed in the outskirts of Baghdad. They decided to move to Saudi money. And then I paid them two visits and we're in touch supporting each other. - So what kind of activities have you been doing lately for the Muslim peacemaker teams? How much has it grown to? Is this a very popular thing for people to be involved in now? Or I imagine there's the society there is being pulled in a lot of different directions? - Yes, we invested sometimes in some money in promoting two projects. First called letters for peace and the other one, Water for Peace, and both are small projects, but they are very effective to build links and bridges between young people in Iraq and young people in the US. So those listeners who are really interested to get involved, they can go to check the website of the airconsolationproject.org or MPT-Iraq.org and download those projects and learn about the sister city projects, download those projects. If they are educators, the teachers, they can share this with their students and get them involved. If they are community members, they can share it with their community or church members and they share it with their churches and take an action. It's important to stop feeling that we are handcuffed, confused, puzzled, and watching the devastating news coming from Iraq or Afghanistan, but we have to do our part to peace building and take action by getting involved. - I'm curious about which people in the past in Islamic theology have put forth the thoughts that are inspirational to Muslims in terms of peacemaking. I mean, I think from Hindus, we all have the great inspiration that Gandhi was to the world. In the US, we had Martin Luther King. He was certainly an inspiration. And many of us think Jesus spoke very strongly in favor of peace. In Muslim tradition, are there great workers for peace that we should all know about? And because I saw you a couple weeks ago, Sammy, at the Ways of Peace Conference, the first edition of which was about Christian nonviolence, but I believe next year, they're going to be doing one on Muslim nonviolence when the Friends for Nonviolent World sponsor that conference next year. Who are the people they're going to be talking about? - Actually, we're going to do this together, but I would like for the next year, the roots of nonviolence in the Islamic culture. So that would be next year's conference main topic. Well, let me tell you this, Mark. I'm not a religious person, but I'm very well aware of the Islamic culture because I was born and raised there up to 24 years old when I decided to move to the Western Hemisphere. But the greatest concept of the central teaching of Islam is the Oneness. And Oneness is the Oneness of the Creator and Oneness of universe and humanity. One of the beautiful names of Allah, God. God has 99 names in the Islamic tradition. So one of them is Salaam, and Salaam means peace. So even the form of the greetings that the Muslims exchange with their families and friends and strangers, wherever they go, they use the term Salaam, like Salaam Alaykum, may peace be upon you. And you know, an average Muslim prays five times a day and within those five times a Muslim bows down to earth, 17 times. So every time they bows, they postures that like we are from dust, from earth. So when they go sit down like upright, that means we came from dust and they bow again offering that we will be pertaining to dust. So we are dust and we shall do dust, retain. And this manifests that we're humbly human beings that traveling within the spirituality that confess that we are dust and we belong to earth. So 100 years ago, we were not around. And that years later, we will be not around. So that's really the question, who are we? And in emphasis, you're through the Islamic teachings, which is the Quran as a source. And the hadith, which is the Muhammad's prophet statement that he made within those great sources, we learned. And we still are learning the values of them and violence. And beside that, traditionally, Arabs and Muslims are known as hospitable people and generous people. And yet, generosity is described as the highest form of men violence. And you will mention that Gandhi as a Hindu, we adopted the Ahimsa, which is an Indian term means compassion and no harm to others. He was very much inspired by Becha Khan, who is a Muslim Pakistani figure who also has a good history of practicing non-violence. This is in that recent history. But let me tell you that I was born in a city called Najaf, which is today, is the necessity of Minneapolis. And there is a golden shrine, golden dome, big shrine, and Najaf were the tomb of Imam Ali. Imam Ali is the fourth Khalifa that succeeded the death of Prophet Muhammad. And also Imam Ali is the cousin of Prophet Muhammad, and he is the son-in-law of Prophet Muhammad because he married his daughter, Fatima Tzahra. After the death of Prophet Muhammad, there were disputes who was going to be the successor. So Muhammad's companions, they met, and they discussed, and they eventually decided that Abu Bakr Sadiq will be the first successor, then Umar ibn al-Hatab will be the second. And third would be Uthman ibn Afan, and the fourth was Ali ibn al-Biyat al-Biyat al-Biyat, who was the cousin and son-in-law of Muhammad. And Ali was fine with him to be the last, the fourth. And I believe he was happy with the decision, and eventually took a place. You know, the West and the rest of the world have begun to be aware and talk in, or wondering what are the Shia and Sunnah after the invasion of Iraq. This happened just because the occupying forces, when they invaded Iraq, they played on one card that Saddam was Sunni, and Saddam allegedly that he persecuted the Shia. So what happened, they recruited the leaders of the oppositions, lived outside of Iraq, and they played it as getting rid of the Sunni leader, which is Saddam, and bringing Shia leaders. And that divided the country, made it to obvious that the Shia leaders who came from the outside, like the current government, sided with the U.S. to have the invasion take place, and followed by the occupation. And they agreed to that, but in return, they received the power, they took over the power. And then it looked like the Shia are agreeing with the Bush's agenda while the Sunnis are opposing it. So what happened, it's a political, again, political struggle. It's not about sex and religions, and therefore people began to learn about the Shia and Sunnah. And also the other card of the occupation agenda to have those Shia and Sunnah to get involved in a civil war, or so-called inner war, or sectarian war. And that didn't work, you know, because there were a bombing of the Alaskari mosque in Samara in February 22nd of 2006. But until this moment, nobody knew who did that bombing, and no investigation took place, and nobody was charged. I mean, even if they brought some people and charge them with the crime that committed to bomb that, but the question, how powerful those people were, because the bombing was so big, and actually repeated a year later, because the first time was the dome, only the dome blown up, and the second time the two men are it. And the reason I'm talking about this, because some of the Shia believe that Imam Ali Ibn Ali Qalb, who became 4th Alifa, he was supposed to be the 1st, one of the arguments between Shia and Sunnah. And this argument is so weak by the, presented by the Shia, because Imam Ali eventually accepted and he never fought against it. And that shows how he was reconciled, and he accepted not to be the 1st, despite some historical arguments that the Prophet Muhammad assigned Ali to be the 1st. But that was refuted and still by most of the Muslims. And to talk about the Sunnis actually here, we have 1.4 billion Muslims today, which is 1/6, more than 1/6 of the population of Earth. Mostly our Sunnis, we have only 7 to 10% Shia, and mostly are living in Iran. Unfortunately, the Shia and Iran are promoting very much this division among Muslims. And therefore, there are slight differences. And by the way, I'm here about my wife as Sunnis and lots of mixed marriages across the country in Iraq. And there are no such myths or big divisions among the Muslims in Iraq. We know about 60, maybe 65% of Shia in Iraq, but we never lived that annihilation status of violence against each other through the history, since the birth of Muhammad or Islam. So when I was in Portland last year, attending the Peace and Justice Study Association, I met Bernard Lafayette's respected scholar and a religious man who emphasizes his experience and knowledge and strategies in peace building. He said, I learned that from my experience, not to be the first always if I get the chance to be the first, but I always be second to secure the environment of peace and non-violent competition. If there is any competition, takes place, whether number one or number two, it's a gift given or any form of things that people strive to get. So I told him, well, let me tell you the story of Imam Ali, Nabi Talib who went to not second, not third, but he went forth and he was amazed by the story. And he said, Sami, how come we don't hear about these stories in the recent time? And I told him, well, it's the median and the focus of just dividing the people and ignoring facts. Unfortunately, that is the way that the media goes far too often. Of course, that's why I'm here at Spirit and Action. This is a Northern Spirit radio production. I'm Mark Helps, meet your host. And we're speaking today with Sami Razuli. He has dual citizenship in the US and Iraq. He came here in his 20s and lived here for quite a while. And after Saddam Hussein was deposed, he went back to try and help heal things in Iraq. I wanted to ask you a little bit more about that, Sami. How can you work effectively in Iraq when it's in a time of turmoil? Do you have special leverage that you can get things done? I kind of assumed that it might be dangerous and that you might be under attack from extreme settlements because you want to promote peace. - Well, we work with all factions. So when we are in an area where this area is populated by mostly Shia, we move to another area where it's populated by Sunnis or by Turkmen or by Yazidis or Kurds, Arabs, Christian or Muslims. So we move around and we are well known by different factions that we are not politically involved because this is important. If we are politically involved then our life is in danger. So we have the magic sheet which explains our stance from what's going on in Iraq. And also we make it clear that we're not associated to each of the governments, whether it's Iraqi government or the American government. So as far as you hear me, I'm in touch with you a life but we lost two people at the Muslim peace maker teams and the Christian peace maker teams lost. One person and five others got kidnapped and released and life goes on. We cannot do anything except we continue our work because we have no other option. And I chose not to sit down and be passive, like in terms of not doing anything during my journey as a human beings or a spiritual beings but I'm passive in terms of non-violent and I'm still training myself to be nonviolent because I remember I was born and raised and still living in a very violent environment. So we're trying our best to do our work. And if the Christian peace maker teams moved from Baghdad to Syria, which is in Kurdistan, Iraq, seeking safer environment to work, the Muslim peace maker teams in Najaf, Karbalah and other area, Fallujah and other places have no other choice just to be there and continue working. - I also wanted to ask you about something that you and I and some others were discussing just yesterday, we are talking to you about conscience, subjection as it exists as a policy in the United States and alternative to doing military service. Is there anything comparable? Is there any thought about that? If you are a pacifist and your government in Iraq wants to call you, no, I'm not assuming they're gonna call you because you're 58 years old. So I don't think they're gonna go after you but a young man, does he have an option there if he is drafted or is there even a draft in Iraq? - That was the case when Saddam Hussein was in power, military service was mandatory but it's not anymore. And actually the Iraqi army, the old Iraqi army was disbanded by one of the orders that set for a new Iraq led by the second civil American administrator, Mr. Holbremmer, when he ordered that the old Iraqi army to be disbanded and dissolved. So they did for a new army that trained by the US and this army is voluntarily the members they enlisted as a job that's available, actually the only job available but the Iraqi government cannot, there is no such thing called draft in a right and recent time but that was way back when Saddam was in power and previous to that. - One last thing before we sign off, Sammy, is there anything that you would urge that our listeners would do concrete actions we can take to help promote peace in Iraq or between our two countries? What would you ask that our listeners do to try and make some difference in that situation? - To get involved in the Water for Peace project and the Letter for Peace project, these need to be looked at and they are available to be downloaded from our website which is a consolation project.org and MPT stands for Muslim peacemaker teams. MPT-Iraq.org contact probably our executive director Kathy McKay and she will guide you and tell you what to do and also you can start your own chapter of Iraqi American Reconciliation Project to get involved in peace building and bridging the gaps between Iraq and the US and correcting the relationship. So this is one way and another way here in order to have real change in the culture of the US and the policy making, foreign policy making and the government system that requires a real change as we talked about it earlier and we need to form the people corporations and people corporations that counter the giant corporation that probably represent 5% of the population of the US. The people corporations will represent more than 95% of the people of the US and I think they can do the difference by organizing themselves, changing the culture of force that should be based on trust and not fear. So the new culture that we strive for is the culture of non-violence and we can do it together. - I thank you for your continuous work, really giving up a comfortable life to do something much more strenuous and perhaps more dangerous, certainly very valuable to the world. Thank you for speaking with us here today and may God bless you as you go back to Iraq and work with the people there. - My pleasure, thank you very much, Mark, for having me. - Today's spirit and action guest was Sami Razuli of the Muslim peacemaker teams. If you've listened to this program fair amount, you may well know that I do international folk dancing and one of the dances I do is from Iraq and it enlightened me to the presence of Christians in Iraq. In fact, 20 or 30 years ago, there was something like 10% of the population. One of the side effects of the wars in Iraq has been to decimate their numbers, both by death and emigration, such that they are now down to only 3%. The Iraqi dance I do is from the Christian sect known as Chaldeans and it's called Shekani. So I'll send you out with a bit of Shekani, a Chaldeans dance from Iraq. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) The theme music for this program is Turning of the World, performed by Sarah Thompson. This spirit in action program is an effort of Northern Spirit Radio. You can listen to our programs and find links and information about us and our guests on our website, northernspiritradio.org. Thank you for listening. I am your host, Mark Helpsmeet, and I welcome your comments and stories of those leading lives of spiritual fruit. May you find deep roots to support you and grow steadily toward the light. This is Spirit in Action. (upbeat music) With every voice, with every song, we will move this world along. With every voice, with every song, we will move this world along, and our lives will feel the echo of our healing. (upbeat music)