Spirit in Action

Religion & Society Exchange - Sahar Taman & Rabbi Jeremy Schneider

Project of the National Peace Foundation and the Islamic Society of North America, Reflections and Experiences of Religion and Society includes essays from the participants in the exchange program between Muslims, Jews & Christians between the Middle East & the US Midwest.

Broadcast on:: 27 Jun 2010
Audio Format:: other

(upbeat music) ♪ Let us sing their song for the healing of the world ♪ ♪ That we may hear as one ♪ ♪ With every voice, with every song ♪ ♪ We will move this world along ♪ ♪ And our lives will feel the echo of our healing ♪ - Welcome to Spirit in Action. My name is Mark helps me. Each week, I'll be bringing you stories of people living lives of fruitful service, of peace, community, compassion, creative action, and progressive efforts. I'll be tracing the spiritual roots that support and nourish them in their service, hoping to inspire and encourage you to sink deep roots and produce sacred food in your own life. ♪ Let us sing your dance song for the dreaming of the world ♪ ♪ That we may dream as one ♪ ♪ With every voice, with every song ♪ ♪ We will move this world along ♪ - Today for Spirit in Action, we're going to be hearing from a few participants of the religion and society program, an exchange of Muslims, Christians, Jews, and others between the USA and seven nations in the Middle East. Make no mistake, this kind of encounter really up the ante, so to speak, bringing people face to face and openly speaking of religion. I imagine that most of us in the USA learned that in polite company, one is not supposed to speak of politics, sex, and of course, religion. Yet, religion is a central issue when it comes to sorting out the issues in the Middle East and in practically every other country. If we want peace, it does no good to live in denial of the elephant in the living room. US policy and the policy of other countries has too often tried to sort out the conflicts while living in denial and sometimes just simple ignorance of the religious identities involved. The Religion and Society Project, co-sponsored by the National Peace Foundation and the Islamic Society of North America, took on the task of bringing diverse people face to face. Over a couple years, these exchanges between seven nations in the Middle East and the US, Midwest, happened with a number of the participants sharing about their experiences, writings that were assembled by Sahar Chaman as a book, Reflections and Experiences of Religion and Society. You can find the book via the website of the National Peace Foundation, NationalPeace.org, or from ISNA, ISNA.net, that is the Islamic Society of North America. We will have a couple participants with us here today. A little later, we'll be talking with Rabbi Jeremy Schneider of Temple Shalom in Dallas, Texas. But first, we've got Sahar Chaman in the Northern Spirit Radio Studios. Sahar was a central organizer of the tours and exchanges, and she edited the final compilation of the book. Sahar Chaman is a vibrant Muslim voice in the Chippewa Valley and really nationwide. Sahar, thanks so much for joining me for Spirit in Action. - Thank you very much, Mark. I'm very pleased to be here. - You've been through such an experience. I think probably a life-changing experience as part of the Reflections and Experiences of the Religion and Society Production. I mean, that's kind of your end product maybe. Does the project continue? Are you still doing this? - Well, you started out with an excellent question, but also a difficult one, because the program has been defunded in some ways, and some of the reasons for that are the lack of appreciation of the fact that there is interfaith dialogue as part of work on a citizen diplomacy level, basically some government funding that is used to have citizen exchanges, but we're talking about religion. And number two, there are people who definitely found that this type of projects which have to do with the Muslim world was just not the right thing to do. And there are a lot of, as you know, the Islamophobes, the anti-Muslim media, the hate media, sometimes they're called, that set out to destroy the project, destroy similar projects. Basically, they're destructive forces in general, and unfortunately the program was defunded because of that. Now, having said that, that doesn't mean that there isn't a continuity in dialogue. The program was designed to build networks, and those networks exist. - Let's outline what the project actually was, this Religion and Society Project. Again, birthchild of the Islamic Society of North America and the National Peace Foundation, joint collaboration on this, involved travel back and forth, number of representatives of multiple religions between the US and a number of Middle Eastern countries. When did this start? What was the idea? Is that what actually happened, the original idea? - I would say that this was the birthchild of some excellent people within the US government who had worked for years and years and years in citizen exchanges and had been hedgehogging, walking around what they thought was really at the core of many exchanges, and that is the discussion of religion. If we're talking about an exchange for not just cultural diplomacy, ultimately there is politics that needs to be involved. So I applaud the efforts of particular individuals. And their focus was, let's look at religion and society. Let's find religious actors who are part of work in multiple countries and see if we can engage them to have discussions on what is religion in their society, what is religion in American society. So then the National Peace Foundation undertook one of these projects. One of the ways to approach this program was to start with Islam in the United States. See if there's something that has developed here that we can share as a model and how Islam is really part of this American religious pluralism. So we named our program Islam in America. When we started to go about figuring out how we would do that, how we would discuss Islam in America, we went to the Islamic Society of North America, which is an umbrella organization of Muslim entities, Muslim groups and Muslim centers and mosques and schools within the United States. So we went to ISNA as it's called. - And so where did you actually go? So you went somewhere, part of it so overseas, but part of it's people coming here where the exchange is equal. I've noticed in the book, the Reflections and Experiences of Religion and Society, that you've got people who are Christian, who are Muslim, who are Jewish. And I guess you've got people who are ex-Muslim, you've got people in the US and you've got people abroad. So how did you get these people together? - Was this hard? I didn't see any fundamentalist in there. I didn't see any people who I would connect with, what you called kind of the hate media who don't want communication. I think everyone I saw in the book was at least tentatively open to communication and was looking to get a little bit more light. - Well, let me start by clarifying that when I met the hate media, I meant that in the United States, the same people who distributed the movie Obsession. If you remember that right before Barack Obama's election in the fall of 2008, those same people had previously gone after any Muslim initiative from within the government that they felt that they could attack. Within our program, there were people who were willing to come to the table for a dialogue. Now, these people were from seven Arab countries, Syria, Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia, Yemen, the United Arab Emirates, and Qatar. So the diversity of those seven countries, they're all Arabic speaking nations, but they're seven different cultures. When we were having a discussion with a delegation that might come from these countries, that was already inter or intra ethnic dialogue, and even intra religious because they were Shia and Sunni. In the United States, we decided to focus on a particular region of the United States, and that's the Midwest. So we didn't just take a look at what's happening in Washington, DC. When we had delegations visit the United States from these seven Arab countries, we said, let's take a look at what is a slice of American society. So we went to the Midwest and we said, okay, let's go to small cities, big cities, rural communities. As you know, we came to Eau Claire, Wisconsin as a representative of a rural community. And then within each of that, we said, well, what happens in America? - What for you stand out as experiences? Can you give me a story or two of things that change your point of view? And we'll start from the fact, of course, that you're born in Egypt. You lived in England as a young person for a while, and by 11, you come to the great Midwest, have been living here, but you've been Muslim of your life. So in a lot of ways, you're standing squarely in between the continents and these cultures. Still, I believe that this thing opened up your eyes to stuff that you hadn't understood, it hadn't seen, hadn't known. - You're absolutely right. I was really changed myself. I actually did participate in all of the trips and more and so in the programming of each of these programs. I have to say that one of the biggest honors I received was getting trust from people who may not have ever answered a call like this in a positive. People who are willing to say, yes, yes. You can bring this delegation to my church. So I was changed by seeing that when you ask people something, something a little bit out of their comfort zone, they're willing to do it when they have a partner, someone they take a risk, and someone they put a trust in and build a trust in. - One that I know of that I think took that risk here was Valleybrook, which is actually connected with Baptist. And I don't think of Baptist as being very open to this inter-religious dialogue, but Valleybrook Church here right in town, they hosted the delegates, didn't they? - Yes, the Valleybrook Church hosted the delegates for a dinner, which was very much, again, a slice of their community. And then families hosted the delegates overnight. Now, it's very interesting that you mentioned Valleybrook and their affiliation with the Baptist. When we told people, well, we're gonna take our delegates to Valleybrook, many people were, oh, I don't know. I'm not sure they're the right group to take them to, quite honestly. And when we went, we found such receptive, warm people at all the levels, it was extraordinarily touching. And so that experience happened more than once when many people would say, oh, no, don't take them to my neighbors. And then they found out that they were wrong. - You're going with these groups over to the Middle East, and Middle Eastern groups are coming here in these seven different countries that you went to, the population is 99% plus Muslim. They're not used to the same diversity. They don't rub shoulders daily with the wide span that we do here. - Absolutely. One of our quests, when we went to the Arab countries, was to show the pluralism that exists there. And we were showing that to our American delegations, but really we were leading our Muslim delegation to also explore that with us. So when we went to Egypt, we set up programs with the Jewish communities there. There is still a small Jewish community in Cairo in Alexandria. And there also is in Damascus. It was very difficult because there are a series of myths surrounding the other. The myths that we dealt with were, oh, there are no Jews, for example, oh, you are not going to be able to see the synagogues because they're all closed down. It's impossible. There's too much security on there are no visible running synagogues. We overcame all that and found that we could, and we did meet with the Jewish community, and we did see synagogues. When we talk about Christianity, Christianity is really alive and well in the Middle East, in the Arab world. And it isn't really hard to find it. It is hard to engage in it sometimes. In Egypt, there's a large population of Eastern Orthodox Christians. There are other Christian denominations. We went to see the Protestant church in Egypt, and we learned how they perceive themselves, how they are part of society. Christianity has been around for 2,000 years, plus in the Middle East, in the Arab world, and their identity is very important. One of the authors talks about that conflict being created, the Muslim-Christian conflict is actually manufactured again by the media, people who might mention in a news story, for example, that a Muslim man killed his Christian neighbor over a parking lot. What does that have to do with them being Muslims and Christians? Again, he talks about these conflicts as being created as manufactured by perhaps ill will. I think this comes back to hate media that happens. We have threads of our own fears that come out as unfortunate slanders. Again, we're talking today with Sahar Taman. She is edited together a number of writings from people who are part of the Religion and Society Program. The book is Reflections and Experiences of Religion and Society. This was co-produced. I mean, she's the hardworking person who shepherded all the cats into the same corral here to make this happen, but this is a joint project of the National Peace Foundation and the Islamic Society of North America. My name is Mark Helpsmeet, and I'm your host for Spirit in Action, which is an Northern Spirit radio production. My website is northernspiritradio.org, and on the site, you'll find all of the programs from the past five years. You'll find links to our guests. So, for instance, we're going to put a link there so you can find this book more easily. And I think you can find it through the National Peace Foundation. That website is nationalpeace.org. You can find a link that will get you to the National Peace Foundation, and there you can find their book Reflections and Experiences of Religion and Society. We're talking again with Sahar Taman. Some we haven't talked about Sahar is the fact that you're Muslim, and you're being exposed to a lot of Muslims over there, which I think must be tremendously different from what you grew up with here, or maybe it just looks very much the same. How did it strike you? I just learned so much from being open to other points of view, other ways of thinking, and being confident in myself that whatever a person says is not something to attack me or to hurt me, but basically in some way or another, that's a question that I need to relay something to myself about. One of the experiences, as people often said, "Well, you're an American. Maybe you have a different agenda. How can we trust you?" And again, it was up to me to make them feel comfortable. I did that as sincerely as possible. I learned a lot about Islam. I met all kinds of people who had very many different views. Again, I don't like to use words fundamentalist or extremist. I found people who approach their religion from many different views. One of the things that finally I had to find myself at ease with is the way the women who chose to cover themselves actually cover themselves and cover their faces. Believe it or not, when I had first seen that, I was terrified, I was quite scared. And then I too learned that they were human beings. I met Shia Muslims. Many of our delegates had never met Shia Muslims until they came to the United States. There was so many experiences, so many examples, and I'm very, very blessed. - I think there's one myth that I carry, and I think it's probably pretty general, but I don't know if it's true or not. These countries are 99% or plus or something Muslim. And one of my questions is, is that just by choice? Is it by requirement? I imagine it differs in different countries. I think of Egypt as a relatively liberal, Western leaning, having more of that. I think Syria's got more of that Eastern mystique about it, and it's a different world for me. - So what's it like, is if you live in Egypt, is there tremendous pressure that you better belong to the national faith, just like everyone in France, better be Catholic? - So there's a lot of myths, and you pinpointed maybe six or seven in that short statement. Egypt is at least 10% Christian, so at least. Whether or not there are state religions basically are different in each country. Syria does not have a state religion, a secular nation politically. In Egypt, there is a state religion, and the issue of identifying others, because many of these countries have political regimes, dictatorships, everyone is different. Each of the seven nations is quite different. In Egypt in particular, an identity card also identifies your religion. So basically the equivalent of a driver's license here except it's issued at the national level. There are big discussions throughout the country, and people seeking rights to be able to identify themselves as they please. One issue is the issue of Baha'i. Baha'i have been struggling several years now to be able to identify themselves as Baha'i. And these conflicts in court and cases in court have a deep history about them. I can't actually relay what the latest outcome is, but I think it may have been that you could keep it blank. That might have been a success story in terms of a right. In Qatar, when we say it's 99% Muslim, that's the local population. They identify themselves as the locals, the original tribes, the original Qataris. However, two thirds of the population of Qatar is expatriates, people who are working there. They have come in as labor, not just physical labor, but in much of the Gulf, professionals, bankers, everybody. So that two thirds is pretty much like the United States, almost everybody on earth. They represent many, many countries of the world. They are Hindu, large Hindu population from India, from Bangladesh, they are Muslims, they are Sikh, they are Christian from many from Europe, some Americans, and they also represent many religions. Now, the identity of Qatar as a state is quite different from the actual reality on the ground when you see them. One of the essays that particularly struck me was Jeremy and his trip there. There are a number of his congregation who had concerns about him going. He had concerns as families worried about his well-being. And will he be the lone Jew in an Arab populace that might want to take out their anger about Israel on that? And of course, the two get identified too often as one. If you're Jewish, you must be pro-Israel, pro-Israel, government policies, et cetera. That's the elephant in the living room in many of these exchanges. I'm sure that the US has perceived as being very supportive of Israel. We certainly fund them to a great degree. There's a haven for Jews in the United States. There may be more Muslims than Jews in the United States, but our policy has been pretty pro-Israel. And some of us don't agree with our policy. A large number of us may not agree with our policy, but when traveling abroad, I have a feeling that in the Arab world, the view is the US favors the Jews and opposes the Muslims. And there were contributions from some of the people who wrote from your book that clearly said they came with that opinion that we were monolithic, and they thought we didn't have the freedom in the diversity in our society. Of course, we have the myth that there's no diversity over in their societies. So the elephant in the middle of the living room, the Palestinian-Israeli conflict and the issues there, can you share any stories, experiences, insights about that? - Yes, the Palestine-Israel conflict or the Israel-Palestine conflict is pervasive in any discussion on the Middle East, especially in the Arab world, and we could not avoid it and we did not avoid it. But we did not focus on a discussion of history, a discussion of injustice and a discussion of rights. We focused on human beings just opening their eyes and looking at another human being in one of the articles. The writer talks about three days in an interfaith dialogue under the Abrahamic religions, and her pain is whether or not she should even be in the dialogue, attending meetings. That is she having a discussion with a rabbi and a Jewish woman? Is that a betrayal to Palestine? Is a betrayal to her grandmother, a betrayal to the history of the legacy, the tie to the land? So we're starting at that level. And in conclusion, after having this experience, says, well, you know, maybe one day we'll all be together praying side by side in Jerusalem, which is a symbol of unity for all three of the Abrahamic religions. On another level, there are American Jews who heard the Palestine dilemma in a brand new voice. One of our writers talks about how meeting with the Palestinian family and meeting one of these grandmothers who was actually removed from Palestine in 1948. And she, the hesitation, the tension where she was learning something about, I didn't know, I didn't know. However, I still feel Jews have a right to a homeland. So there is again this conflict identity. I've learned something, but I'm conflicted. There's still a lot of experience at the level of just engaging in something that's new to you. Basically what we would call cognitive dissonance. A person, you know, seeing something and not being able to recognize it, a confusion on their point. There are incidences on the Palestine issue where people are engaged in a violent way. I don't mean physically violent. One incident of people met an Orthodox rabbi. They were suspicious of him. They didn't understand why he was in the room. They were suspicious of us for having brought him. And at one point, a person attacked them and said, you are so ungrateful, we, meaning the Muslims, all these us and we's these generalizations. We welcomed and saved the Jews. And, you know, when they were attacked in Andalusia, you are so ungrateful. And then within that same essay, the person later writes, the rabbi was very calm. And he spoke to me in a way that I understood that again, he was a human being. And when I met him again, another year later, I hugged him and he told me to be strong. You have to be able to speak from a point of truth to yourself, but in a manner that is asking a question, listening to understand, not necessarily asking question where you're listening to respond and prepare a response. We didn't always get there. One of the essays is a woman who writes about a topic that's actually quite controversial for anybody who holds a religious perspective. And that is, who has a monopoly of salvation? - That's an excellent lead in Sahar. I'd like our listeners to hear some excerpts from the essays in the book. And the essay on the monopoly of salvation would be an excellent place to start. It's written by a female religion and society to a participant from Syria. So this is a Muslim woman addressing squarely the problems that result when people of particular faith claim that their faith is the only right faith, the only ticket to goodness or to heaven perhaps. The author is not available to read her essay. So Sahar, let's have you read a portion of it. And perhaps we can give you a little change of identities, Sahar, if we record you via a different microphone. Here are two excerpts from the essay, the monopoly of salvation. - What is more arrogant than to think of oneself as the one who holds the keys to heaven and hell? This is in stark contradiction to the Aya. Say, Oh Allah, creator of the heavens and the earth, knower of all that is hidden and open. It is thou that will judge between thy servants in those matters about which they have differed. As Zumar, 46. I believe that the monopoly of salvation is the disease of all time because it fuels intolerance. It is tragic when we are trapped by the solution. The following clear statement by the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him reveals a total rejection of the idea of the monopoly of salvation. He said, my parable among the prophets is that of a man who built a house and achieved so nice of work but less the place of one brick unfinished. People passing by said, what a house this could have been if that brick had not been missing. I was that brick and I am the seal of the prophets. Allah mentions in his holy book, Three Diseases that fell upon the early nations and that have spread to the Muslim Omar as well. The Jews say the Christians have not to stand upon and the Christians say the Jews have not to stand upon yet they profess us to study the same book, Al-Bakra 113. Yet some Muslims have said exactly the same thing of the Jews and the Christians. In another part of the Holy Quran Allah says and they say none shall enter paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian. Those are their vain desires. Say, produce your proof if ye are truthful. Al-Bakra 111. It is strange then to have the idea of monopoly of salvation embedded in some minds when the Quranic text is full of similar proofs which deny it as the Hebrew Bible does. Allah Almighty says whoever fulfills his pledge and fears Allah much. Verily than Allah loves those who are Al-Muktaki the pious. Al-Imran 76. The Bible raises the same issue. In Acts of the Apostles, the Apostle Peter says but in every nation, whoever fears him and works righteousness is accepted by him. During my participation in the religion society study tour in June 2007, I presented a version of this article. Before presenting, I knew that Muslim delegates and other participants including American Muslims would have difficulty with it. I perhaps not accept what I was going to present. I decided to present it and observe their reactions. Their reactions differed. Some accepted, some were suspicious and some were really angry. I knew that I was in a crucial position as people started looking at me differently. Every now and then I heard indirect comments that showed refusal of what I presented. One participant wrote me a letter of objection and then we had the chance to sit together and have a good dialogue. The seeds of the monopoly of salvation are rooted and accumulated in our hearts and minds and great efforts are needed to pull them out. Our ego works in the direction of excluding the other. Who is in the end our brother and sister in humanity? In my opinion is not only some Muslims who have difficulty in accepting the fallacy of the monopoly of salvation, the concept of the chosen people and the saved people are also misunderstood in Judaism and Christianity. I believe that the heavenly messages of Judaism, Christianity and Islam all call to respect humankind. Similarly, those who truly followed the heavenly messages I believe are the ones who follow the teachings of God's prophets. Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, TC upon them all. - Thank you, Sahar for reading for us. Those selections from the monopoly of salvation. Just one of many, many, many perspectives and essays in the book, Reflections and Experiences of Religion and Society, edited by Sahar Taman here with me today for Spirit and Action. And if you come via my northern spiritradio.org website, you'll find a link to the National Peace Foundation where you can get a copy of this and read the full thing. And there's so many wonderful articles in here. How about we call up Jeremy? Don't you, you mentioned Jeremy earlier. And I think we deserve to talk to him. Of course, it's a little bit hard getting ahold of him right now because he's got a newborn babe and he's taken care of that child in the first month here of its life. But how about I call up Jeremy? Just a moment we'll have Jeremy Schneider on the phone. Before we talk to Jeremy, let's play a recording of him reading a short excerpt from his essay for Reflections and Experiences of Religion and Society. Here's a small piece of what Rabbi Jeremy Schneider wrote called Jewish Muslim Dialogue Is to Kunalam. - My trip to Syria and Egypt is a response to Islamophobia in America. Islamophobia is the fear of Islam based on misunderstandings and misconceptions. Islamophobia is the belief that all Muslims are terrorists. As one New York Times columnist put it, give Americans a Rorschach test today and what they'll detect in the inkblots are bearded Muslim suicideers. This is a classic case of stereotyping and just plain incorrect. We as Jews know how much ignorance hurts as Rabbi Eric Yafi, president of the Union for Reform Judaism put it. We reach out to the Muslims because of our deep conviction that America is different. One of the very few places where the promise of true pluralism is not too wild a hope. And because we know as religious Americans that in this great country we are stronger and safer when we transcend our fears and work together rather than apart. My experiences in Cairo and Damascus Syria were amazing. I met with Muslim thinkers, practitioners, writers and activists that changed the way I see the world. Day after day, the misconceptions I held about Islam were stripped away and seeds of trust were laid in my heart for building meaningful relationships. Beyond the discourse, I was also blessed with the opportunity to witness positive Muslim activism, what we as Jews would call Tukun Olam. Muslims also feel commanded to repair our world. Even the Egyptian province and the Nile Delta of Khafar al-Shaykh, a small town, two and a half hours north of Cairo, I met with young activists and organizers of Qinuz, a grassroots community development organization, the countless hours they volunteer establishing programs to address the needs of the community, including clothing drives, computer skills and literacy training are inspirational. - That again was Rabbi Jeremy Schneider. And he's going to join us today for Spirit in Action. Jeremy, welcome to Spirit in Action. - Thank you for having me. - I understand that that selection you just read is from a sermon that you gave to Temple Shalom down there in Dallas. What was the reaction? How did it go over? - I think the sermon was new. It was something that not regularly discussed. In fact, I think it was the first time many had ever heard these connections being made. And I think plainly it was a shock to some. It was something that inspired others. - I understand that when you were preparing to be part of this religion and society exchange, this project, that first you said you were going to go and then you got feedback from various people saying that maybe it'd be a good idea if you didn't go so you were pulling back and then you made the decision to go. And I think you went and I think it was a very happy and rich experience for you. Could you talk a little bit about the forces, the values, the ideas that were competing as to whether you would or would not participate? - I think to answer that question, one has to understand the role that Israel plays in the identity of a Jewish person in America. We hear about Israel, the modern country, in the news every day, but Israel is much deeper and plays a much more meaningful role in the lives of a Jew. To speak about Israel and to speak about one's narrative, the one's Jewish identity, Israel is our homeland since the time of the Bible. And so when I was making the decision about making this trip, the tension or the difficulty that I was having had to do with traveling to Syria because as you and many others know, Syria does not believe in the right for Israel to exist today. And so that was a tension that I had about traveling to a land where, in essence, I perceived myself to be of the enemy. And I believe that my safety was at risk and I was unclear about what that would entail and how they could guarantee my safety. And so I really discussed long and hard whether my traveling to Syria was a risk worth taking, I was a new father at the time, I had a four month old baby, I was very concerned. In the end, I made the decision with my family and my friends, colleagues that traveling to Syria was something that not many, if really on one hand, the amount of rabbis have ever traveled to Syria in modern times to be able to talk about a firsthand experience. And I felt that that was a compelling value that I'm not going to stand and live my life through the fear, rather if I was going to have the opportunity to be there and see for myself and ask questions and speak from a place of experience, then that was something that I couldn't miss the opportunity to do. - There were comments throughout other people's narratives included in the reflections and experiences of religion and society book that referred to you and what a positive experience you'd been, particularly for Muslims who had always thought of Jews as the enemy. I imagine that you must have met at least some folks who, before they got to know you, were angry at you because you're a Jew, you represent the enemy, the Israel enemy. How much of that did you encounter, and just how did you handle it? My first reaction probably would have been to at least react somewhat out of defensiveness and fear. Did you have those kind of feelings, other feelings? How did you come out being such a American of virtue for some of these people? - Well, I appreciate that. I think the trip that Saha'r Taman and the National Peace Foundation put together was one of surrounding us with people who were already motivated to be exposed to the other. Perhaps I was naively optimistic, perhaps I was just with someone who came with a big heart, but I never received such overt feelings. I was genuinely interested in meeting with the other, in seeing the human capacity, and the human being, and the other, and everyone that I met, and I wanted to learn, and I was genuinely interested. And I think that perhaps, I'm projecting here, but perhaps that was the first impression that people were perceiving from me, and that broke down a lot of barriers. I would like to think that. - How has this experience affected you, and how has it affected, in particular, your home congregation, Temple Shalom and Dallas, and maybe your relationship, your standing in the congregation, has there been an effect? - I would like to think that there has been a positive effect. I would not say that it has affected my entire congregation, Locksack and Barrel, the entire group. I believe that I have made an impact and a difference on many individuals in our congregation. I know that there are some in our congregation who were and are unhappy with the work that I'm doing. And I believe that there are many, many more who are inspired, who are challenged, who are agitated, if I could use that in a positive way, because I really go back to the role of the rabbi. The word rabbi comes from the Hebrew word rahv, which means teacher. And I take my role as a teacher very seriously, and that was another compelling reason for me about when this opportunity presented itself that I did not want to back away from such an opportunity, that I wanted to be able to speak and teach from a place of knowledge and experience. And so my experience has led me to be able to challenge others. And I feel that if I only speak and only teach where my congregants are, then they will never grow. They will never be challenged to experience life in the world in a different way. And so I have to challenge myself that I may in turn challenge my congregation. And I hope that that has provided a great deal of meaning for many. - Could you say a few more words, Jeremy, about tikkun olam? Healing of the world is how I've come to translate it. How big of a movement or deep of a root is this for the whole Hebrew faith? - I think that the role of tikkun olam is important in all of Judaism, in performed Judaism, which is my congregation and the movement in which I was ordained in. It is one of the main compelling values that we see and we provide meaning in our lives that we are partners with God in doing the work of fixing or repairing or providing the sense of healing to the world. And we do that in partnership, not with each other. I would expand that notion that all human beings are in partnership with God, not just the Jewish people, but all human beings are in partnership with God. And that is something that through acts of what you wanna call social action, social justice, whatever you wanna call it, volunteerism, whatever, but to get out there and to roll up our sleeves and to help complete the work of creation, the healing process is something that I think provides a great deal of meaning in our lives today. - As you mentioned, Jeremy, you did this when you had a four month old at that point and you've been blessed with another gift this past month or so. How's that going with your new son? - Yes, I'm doing the math in my head. Maybe he was closer to five months at the time. I think I'm thinking of the decision that I made to go on this trip, the baby was four, and I think when I ended up leaving, he was probably closer to six months, but now my second son, Micah, has been a wonderful addition to our family. - And of course, having kids, you're thinking about the future. Kids are all about the future. How do we go about laying the groundwork for peace? - Having two children, two young boys under the age of three right now in my life, I've been thinking a lot about that question and I believe that the work that I'm doing is not just for me, it's not for my congregation only and for my community, but I think I'm doing it for my children and my children's generation and their children because this is a question that stems from my faith tradition, that when we teach our children, when we teach them about the ways of Tukunolam or the ways of repairing the world, then we are building for the future. We are not just living in today, in accomplishing what we can do, but that when we work simultaneously on teaching them and getting our children involved, then we are doing what we can to not only make a difference today, but we're making a difference today and tomorrow. And that is something that motivates me, even in the face of those who are, let's just put a politely, not an agreement with the work that I'm doing, but this is what motivates me to do it for the children. - So are there concrete ways, Jeremy, that you're continuing this work, is that you're moving forward with, you know, healing this breach between nations and cultures? - I would answer that question two ways. One is locally, since returning from this trip, we have been working diligently with the Christian and Muslim community in the Dallas Fort Worth area, that what we call the Metroplex. We have been not only dialoguing, 'cause I think that that is important, but that is only a first step. We are also continuing the work out in the community. We are repairing homes of those individuals who, for whatever reason, whether they're elderly or sick or whatnot, are unable to repair their homes, molar lawns, fix their fences, et cetera. We, as Jews, Christians and Muslims, we call them the mini multi-faith makeovers. That's sort of a play on extreme makeovers. We've been going out in the community and repairing homes together, because I think that true experience of connection, of seeing the human being and the other, is difficult when you sit down and you merely talk to each other. But when you get out there and you roll up your sleeve and you work shoulder to shoulder, what I call side by side, then more experience, more healthy, more meaningful and deep conversations take place. On a national level, I have been asked to speak at the Isna Convention, the Islamic Society of North America Convention in Chicago over July 4th weekend, and I will be addressing their community as they are hosting the convention entitled "Nurturing Compassionate Communities Through Interface Partnership and Cooperation." So there will be a multitude of interface partners and they have asked me to bring my voice and my perspective to their convention, and I'm honored to do that. - And I assume people could find information about the Isna, the I-S-N-A.net website about the conference, and since it's in Chicago, it's not that far from me, maybe I should just pop down there, except that I'm gonna be at a national Quaker Conference at that time over in Ohio. - Fair enough. - Well, I especially appreciate you taking this time to share your insights on Tikkun Olam and what must have been a very vulnerable experience. I think maybe another word for Tikkun Olam in English is spirit and action, and thank you for being one of the great spirit and actions to help bridge this gap between these different cultures and bring hope for peace in this world. Sometimes we're far too short on it and I think you've been a significant spirit and action for us. So thank you again for joining me for spirit and action. - I really appreciate it. Thank you for this opportunity. Thank you for the work that you do and spreading this message and this words of enlightenment. I hope that they continue to be words of impact and change, positive change in our communities and our society. - That was Jeremy Schneider, who was one of the participants in the religion and society exchanges. Quite an amazing experience, quite an amazing program and audacious too. I think it would be nice to hear from one other of the contributors to the book. I was taken by some of the comments in the essay by Muhammad Halawah called Beyond All Our Diversities and Differences. We got him to record portions of his contribution and we'll listen to that in a moment. But before that, could you say Sahar a little bit about Muhammad who he is, how he's connected with the religion and society project? - Muhammad Halawah is involved with an organization that we were very lucky to discover. It's known as the Egyptian society for spiritual and cultural research and in some ways, they describe themselves as a Sufi group. They are people who they again, mostly Muslims, also have Christian members and talk about that the 21st century will be a time of peace and enlightenment and that is what they wish to live and to participate in. Muhammad, we know him as he was a volunteer translator for the delegation and went out of his way to spend several days with our delegation so that he himself was able to have a dialogue, not just working as a translator. In his article, he mentioned some very important points, but in this particular instance, he talks about that as he's half Palestinian, he really recognizes that although he was a Sufi and an open person, he still harbors these concerns and he talks about that experience of understanding Jews in a very personal way. - Here is a short excerpt from the essay "Beyond Allah Diversities and Differences" read by the author, Muhammad Halawah. - As a young boy, I had always respected other faiths and religion, but coming from a family of Palestinian origin as my grandparents owned land in Gaza, I have to admit that I had very bad feelings towards Jews, and despite my own belief of not accusing someone of something he didn't do, just because he fits under the same umbrella as someone that did, I felt that all Jews could be involved in heartless acts, and subconsciously, I felt that this was part of their nature, but one day I had a dream, and when I woke up, I couldn't remember most of the details. I could only remember that in that dream, I was a Jew, I was the same person, but with this slight difference, I was not a Muslim in that dream, I was something different, I was a Jew. I felt very disturbed for three days as a result of experiencing the feeling of being the wicked enemy. The dream was strong enough to create an internal conflict inside me, and it took me some time to regain my balance. Finally, I started to realize a simple truth, beyond all our diversities and differences. We are one. We were created by the same God for the same purpose. Though we serve that purpose through different means, based on the relations that were granted by God to us, despite our differences in color, race, and beliefs. A wonderful little insight of prejudice being carried, and with the grace of God released, that was just a snippet of the full essay by Mohammad Halawa, entitled Beyond All Our Diversities and Differences. I guess that was the third essay we've heard today from a book, Reflections and Experiences of Religion and Society, edited by Sahar Taman. Sahar has been with us today. Sahar, there's so much that's covered in this collection of essays, so many different points of view, multi-religious country, everything. People need to read it for themselves. The personal shareings of the people who've been on the trips and the way that they've been changed is very significant. For all of us, I think an important first step for us is to get rid of the myths, to replace the myths with real people. Of course, sometimes societies do act unifiably. That is to say, sometimes the US does send its entire military might in a certain direction, or sometimes there's a government structure in a Middle Eastern country, which does say this is a law and this is what you can do and what you can't do. So some of the things are institutional in behavior, but when you get to the people, I think there's the real germ of hope for really world peace and hopefully for the 21st century and beyond. I want to thank you, Sahar, for being forced behind making this happen, for doing the difficult task of bringing all of these writings together. I hope people will check out Reflections and Experiences of Religion and Society via our website. And thank you so much for being here today for Spirit in Action. - Thank you very much, Mark. - That was my Spirit in Action guest, Sahar Taman. And we heard earlier from Rabbi Jeremy Schneider, check for links to them and to get the book on our northernspiritradio.org website. Wanna send you off with a bit of music by Yusuf Islam? Before he converted to Islam, he went by the name Kat Stevens, his song is "Maybe There's a World." ♪ I have dreamt of a place and time ♪ ♪ When nobody gets annoyed ♪ ♪ But I must admit I'm not there yet ♪ ♪ But some things keeping me going ♪ ♪ Maybe there's a world that I'm still to find ♪ ♪ Maybe there's a world that I'm still to find ♪ ♪ Hope I don't hope a world and let me in ♪ ♪ Then there'll be a new life to begin ♪ ♪ I have dreamt of an open world ♪ ♪ Borderless and wide ♪ ♪ Where the people move from place to place ♪ ♪ And nobody's taking sides ♪ ♪ Maybe there's a world that I'm still to find ♪ ♪ Maybe there's a world that I'm still to find ♪ ♪ Open up a world and let me in ♪ ♪ Then there'll be a new life to begin ♪ ♪ I've been waiting for that moment ♪ ♪ To arrive ♪ ♪ All at once the flowers of peace ♪ ♪ Will fill my eyes now nice ♪ (upbeat music) - The theme music for this program is "Turning of the World," performed by Sarah Thompson. This spirit in action program is an effort of Northern Spirit Radio. You can listen to our programs and find links and information about us and our guests on our website, northernspiritradio.org. Thank you for listening. I am your host, Mark Helpsmeet, and I welcome your comments and stories of those leading lives of spiritual fruit. May you find deep roots to support you and grow steadily toward the light. This is Spirit in Action. (upbeat music) ♪ With every voice ♪ ♪ With every song ♪ ♪ We will move this world along ♪ ♪ With every voice ♪ ♪ With every song ♪ ♪ We will move this world along ♪ ♪ And our lives will feel the echo of our healing ♪ [MUSIC]