Spirit in Action
Whispered Hopes - In support of exploited women
Renee Wurzer is a leading force behind WhisperedHopes.org, a group whose mission is to extend friendship and acceptance to women ostracized by their work in strip clubs. The approach is directly in the path of Jesus who provided welcome to prostitutes, tax collectors and others reviled by society.
- Broadcast on:
- 14 Mar 2010
- Audio Format:
- other
(upbeat music) ♪ Let us sing their song for the healing of the world ♪ ♪ That we may hear as one ♪ ♪ With every voice of every song ♪ ♪ We will move this world along ♪ ♪ And our lives will feel the echo of our healing ♪ - Welcome to Spirit in Action. My name is Mark helps me. Each week, I'll be bringing you stories of people living lives of fruitful service, of peace, community, compassion, creative action, and progressive efforts. I'll be tracing the spiritual roots that support and nourish them in their service, hoping to inspire and encourage you to sink deep roots and produce sacred food in your own life. ♪ Let us sing your dead song for the dreaming of the world ♪ ♪ That we may dream as one ♪ ♪ With every voice of every song ♪ ♪ We will move this world along ♪ - Today for Spirit in Action, we'll be speaking with Renee Wurzer, leading force behind a relatively new organization in the Chippewa Valley called Whispered Hopes. Renee and Whispered Hopes take what too often is a radical approach to dealing with those criticized and ostracized by society because their activities and work are considered to be questionable or immoral. Instead of protest or shunning, Whispered Hopes seeks to provide friendship, acceptance and love to women working in strip clubs. Instead of concentrating on any faults or questions, Whispered Hopes reaches out a hand of friendship to offer a bridge into a safe place in the community. Instead of protests that would further victimized women in a trade where women are already exploited for their sex, Renee and the other volunteers listen and make friends. I think it's an approach directly inspired by Jesus, and I'm very pleased to welcome Renee Wurzer to speak with us today about Whispered Hopes. Renee, thanks so much for joining me for "Spirit in Action." - Thank you, Mark. I'm glad to be here. - We're both in the Chippewa Valley, but you're maybe a 30-minute drive away from me. The organization you're with, Whispered Hopes, does this cover the entire Chippewa Valley or wider or exactly where do you cover? - Right now, most of our volunteers come from Eau Claire, Chippewa Falls and Bloomer, but we look to serve women in clubs within a reasonable driving radius, both Stanley, Elk Mountain, other clubs, we come into existence, we would go there as well. - So just say, in your own words, what Whispered Hopes is about? Why are you doing this? What are you doing? Just fill our listeners in on what your mission is. - Okay, first, Whispered Hopes is a group of women who are reaching out in Christ's name. We're passionate about women being free to discover their purpose in life and reaching for their best on their journeys. We go into local strip clubs specifically to be the light of God in these places. What we found is that generally people who work there are ostracized from our community and we just quietly sit and be a friendly and supportive group of people for the people working there. - And why are you doing this? I mean, you're going as a symbol of Christ's love. You want these people to feel accepted in a way that perhaps they're being objectified while they're on stage. But what's wrong with what they're doing in your view? Or how does it hurt them? How does it hurt the community? What's the concern there? - I'm not the judge right or wrong, but women working in the sex industry breaks my heart because as a 23 year old divorced woman, I could have easily turned to that. But God brought a wonderful man into my life and we've been married since 1988. So I was very blessed. I feel that when someone is ostracized for whatever reason, that God calls some of us to bring them into community. And that's our problem. - I have a feeling for some of our listeners, they may not fully understand the ostracized part because I think at least that some people are going to say, "Well, that's a beautiful woman who's dancing "without clothes up in front." And isn't she to be admired? Isn't she getting paid well? Isn't she a fortunate person? So what's your perspective on that? - My perspective is on that as a parent, whether you're a mother or a father, would you want your wife to do it, your daughter to do it, your sister to do it? And I think if we bring a negative connotation to that, there is judgment within our society. - I'm sure that when you speak to these dancers, exotic dancers or strippers or whatever the term that gets used is, I'm sure that there's some defensiveness, a fear that you're coming in being judgmental, that you're criticizing them. It seems clear to me that you are implicitly by what you're raising as a concern, criticizing the industry around there. How do the interactions with the exotic dancers go? What's your experience in general? - Our experience has been actually far and away more positive than we would have expected. Once we get past the what's in it for you question, why are you here? Then it's more of a woman to woman sister to sister. We have a lot in common. They're in school, they have children, they have other jobs, they are just women. Some friendships has developed within the clubs and some partnerships are starting to develop outside as well. I still think there's some things that you haven't shared that perhaps make it clear. I do think that you think that this is probably not good for a woman and I guess I'd like you to spell out some of why it's not good. As you said, would you want your daughter to be doing this? And that's certainly a question I think that virtually all of our listeners will answer no to. We don't want our daughters to be doing that. But we need still to be clear in how this harms anyone because some people will see this completely as a victimless crime. So could you share maybe actually from firsthand experience, maybe you know of how people have been impacted negatively? - I don't know from personal experience how women, I don't have any personal relationships with women in the industry other than those I've developed after I was called. But what I have seen is mother daughter team that does this in another region, another daughter is in the industry. And they find it to be just extremely painful. I believe that any time we look at the outside of a person and put value there in our outer beauty that we somehow diminish what God put inside of our hearts. If a man stands up to me and says, you know, I would let my wife or daughter do this, then perhaps it is victimless, but I have not yet met that man. - How many clubs, how many places do you deal with around here in the Chippewa Valley? And again, do you just do that same thing, go in, sit, supportively? You must approach the women at some time. How many places are we dealing with? How many volunteers are we dealing with? How many women are involved in this in the Chippewa Valley? - In the Chippewa Valley, I would estimate there's somewhere between maybe 30 and 50 women working within a one hour radius of Eau Claire. And we have currently five volunteers that work with me. And it is open to women of all varying church backgrounds. It is not just necessarily my home church and something we do. It's open to women throughout the Christian community to come with us. - And so again, what's your procedure, the places, the institutions here that you go to? How many are there in the Chippewa Valley? - There are two, one in Elk Mountain and one in Stanley. What it looks like when we go out, we go about once a month, we take gifts for the women as a representation of our esteem for them, that they are two gods, creatures, as well as we are. The gifts then open the opportunity and we sit away from the clients and the men in the bar. And it's not only the women on stage, but also the women behind the bar serving drinks and those other less obvious roles in the industry. There are support roles, people who are counselors and DJs and bartenders and anyone who works in this and goes to the club on a fairly regular basis is valued in God's eyes and we just try to show that, to welcome them, be welcoming to them. The gifts we bring also act to open the conversation because they come to the table and greet us that we offer them a gift and it's very affirming on both sides and that we are not there to get, we are there to give and we feel they are, someone we want in our lives. - Have you observed changes in people involved in these clubs in terms of their actions? Does this help them, you know, maybe find a better way of earning a living or does it help them in some way, just do they feel better about themselves in some kind of a concrete way? - What we've seen is a change in how we're perceived. The first couple of times we went, it was the bouncers, the bartenders, the women themselves, we're very suspicious of our motives. What has happened since is we're welcomed. We no longer, at least to date, take cover charges. We go early in the evening so we don't disrupt the business and what we're finding is that we're actually greeted with a smile, we are welcome. They have varying levels of comfort. A couple of weeks ago, one of the women who works there came over and hugged my daughter and said hello and just spoke with her very briefly, but thought her out as a person of comfort. When I was doing my mentorship in another area, a woman volunteer and I sat down at a table and one of the dancers came over immediately and said, oh, I'm so glad you're here. Because I have this problem and I just, it's insurmountable, will you pray with me? And it was expected on one level. No, we believe that God can move mountains, but on a personal level, it's not what you expect in that particular environment. - So you're saying that one of the women that you're witnessing with and supporting, that she was asking you to pray with you, are these religious women in general or is, because I don't think that most people's assumption is that if there's a Christian person coming into these clubs, that their reaction is going to be one of acceptance. I assume that they believe that religious people are going to be saying, you're evil, you're going to hell, change your ways or you will burn. - I think that being hurt by people of religion is a very common factor among the women that I have visited with in the club. However, if we are truly being faithful and just loving, I think we have an opportunity to change that perception. My own perception, and many of the people around me, was that these women were somehow not Christians, were not Christ followers. What I have found is that it is quite the contrary. They read the Bible, they are trying to raise their children in a Christian environment, but many of them cannot openly be who they are and are unwelcome in our local churches when someone finds out what they do to make money. - It is your opinion, I assume, that it's incompatible to be living fully with what Christ calls us to and doing this work. I guess that goes without saying. It's not for me to judge. I lived my whole life as a Christian, and yet I didn't fully live my life until I started to look at the sex industry and pornography and industries that are fueled by a brokenness, whether it's in the clients or the women who work there themselves. I went to church on Sunday, I didn't live it. And now I feel very strongly that I'm making a difference, that my volunteers are making a difference to change the faith of Christ followers in places where Christianity is probably a scary idea. - As you said, when you first went into the clubs, they were suspicious of you and that attitude has changed. What has the attitude been from the churches toward you? Is that uniformly positive or are they saying, maybe you're not giving them enough hellfire and damnation when you go in? How does that work in the churches? - Well, so far so good. I have been surrounded by a team of very affirming Christian leaders. However, there have been one or two occasions where people have been, you shouldn't be doing this or you should be doing this differently. I just have to pray and listen. And I also seek guidance from people who have walked this path before me. Some of the reason we don't have life-changing stories is we've been at this one year. Groups of women who have been doing this five years or more are starting to see women simply walk away from their life in the club and start fresh with the help of a local church. We have a long way to go. - You and I were talking earlier, Renee. And one of the things you mentioned is that this is just a group of women who are going into the clubs to witness two women there, to be present for them, to love them. Don't men want to get involved in this? Why is it that there are no men involved? - One of the things I was given very early in this was books to read on healing and pornography and abuse and just how people end up working in the sex industry as a general rule, not as an individual must. One of the things that came across the idea that I came across in every woman's battle was the idea that pornography is adding a third person or a fourth person to a monogamous relationship. I prefer that the nudity of the clubs not be part of what the men around me are exposed to. I'm a little iffy about even saying it on the radio because there's an image with that word. We have men on our prayer team. We have men on our support team. A man stepped up to do our website and hosted. It's not that they are not allowed to be part of the ministry, they are certainly welcome. I just feel, and my mentors also feel this way, that if the nudity of the female, men should not be exposed. - You mentioned your website there and we should share it with our listeners, whisperedhopes.org. What can people find on that site? - Our website is designed to be a place of resources, a gathering of resources. The website is whisperedhope.org. There are devotions and scriptures, testimonies and community resources modeled on other programs that have gone before me. We put together here locally in the Chippewa Valley. These women are working and living in our community and like any other women, sometimes we'll need just assistance, whether that be spiritual or healthcare or just a connection with another person who's on a similar path. - I don't know if this is a positive or negative admission, but I have never been in such a club. But I do have friends who've been and they've gotten to know some of the women working there. And one of the things they told me, "Oh, this is just a regular person." She's putting herself through school, she's doing this. I actually have a Quaker friend who has a daughter who, putting herself through college, the mother found out afterwards, she had been working as a dominatrix, which means she wasn't having sex, but she had to stand up with a whip or something and very strange people asked to do things. And she put herself through college this way. What is your response to the people who say, "This is the way I can earn the money, the best way to support my family, to meet this need?" How do you respond to that? - My response to that is to just reserve judgment. If that is their only option, and we've all, I think, at some point in sale in our lives that there weren't any other options, but the ones we were pursuing, you can't argue that. We are given free will. We make our own choices in life. The stories of the people who have walked out, however, tell a very different story. There's a woman named Harmony Dust who runs a similar program in Los Angeles. And she tells a story of being in the club, thinking it was normal, it was a way to make a living, not seeing anything wrong with it. And then having someone in another part of her life say, "Come to church with me." And invite her again and again and again. And finally, she went. And months later, maybe years, all of a sudden, at her job that she always felt was okay, she felt naked and she quit and went on to reach out to other women. It's not for us to judge. All we're trying to do is just take the light of Christ somewhere that I personally believe it's missing. - What does success in this work that you and the other volunteers of whispered hopes are doing? What would success look like from your point of view? Or maybe you've already had it? And is there further hope for what that success is? - Success would be having open, honest relationships with the women that work there and the volunteers, something that is life affirming, God affirming, something where we trust each other enough to ask for help when it's needed. I believe today will come when someone needs help and we will be there to help bridge that transition from wherever they are at that moment to where God is calling them to be. (gentle music) ♪ How could anyone ever tell you ♪ ♪ You were anything less than beautiful ♪ ♪ How could anyone ever tell you ♪ ♪ You were less than the whole ♪ ♪ How could anyone fail to know what else ♪ ♪ Let your love and ease of miracle ♪ ♪ How deeply open the ship did to my shoulder ♪ ♪ How could anyone ever tell you ♪ ♪ You were anything less than beautiful ♪ ♪ How could anyone ever tell you ♪ ♪ You were less than the whole ♪ ♪ How could anyone fail to know what else ♪ ♪ Let your love and ease of miracle ♪ ♪ How deeply open the ship did to my shoulder ♪ ♪ How could anyone ever tell you ♪ ♪ You were anything less than beautiful ♪ ♪ How could anyone ever tell you ♪ ♪ You were less than the whole ♪ ♪ How could anyone fail to know what else ♪ ♪ Let your love and ease of miracle ♪ ♪ How deeply open the ship did to my shoulder ♪ ♪ How could anyone ever tell you ♪ ♪ You were anything less than beautiful ♪ ♪ How could anyone ever tell you ♪ ♪ You were nothing less than the whole ♪ ♪ How could anyone fail to know what else ♪ ♪ Let your love and ease of miracle ♪ ♪ How could deeply open the ship did to my shoulder ♪ - That was a little song about love and acceptance by an acapella group called "Peaceful Women." The song is "How Could Anyone Ever Tell You?" That kind of love and acceptance, which is so healing to the soul, is what Renee Wurzer of Whispered Hopes is all about. Thanks again for joining me, Renee. You've used the phrase a number of times about involving Christ. I'm sure that you must run into people who neither consider themselves Christians. Maybe they consider themselves, you know, maybe I'm Jewish, I'm atheist, I'm Buddhist. You know, they could be anything and have different values. Can you still speak to them in the same vein in the same direction? And does that matter? Do they have to be Christians for your witness or for your ministry to be relevant to them? - I don't believe that they need to be Christians for them to see relevance in a friendship based on mutual respect and love. We have had a woman who is like, I've thrown away to Christianity, I'm onto Buddhism or wherever she went. And one of our volunteers that night had just finished two semesters of comparative religion classes and was able to talk intelligently and yet with compassion about the pluses and minuses of those various religious ideas. One of the basic ideas behind this is that it is simply to develop relationships and not have an agenda. We're here, we're here once a month. You know, if you need anything, here's an invitation to our Christmas, here's an invitation to our Easter, here's a gift for you, and not have a plan, an alternative, other than to just simply be there in relationships. - I guess I wanna challenge you just a little bit Renee about something. And that is the standards that you're speaking of that are the basis of this ministry. They do come out of Christianity, as you see it, and experience it. Let me just tell you a little bit about my experience. One of the things that happened in my life is I served as a Peace Corps volunteer in West Africa, a country called Togo in my village was Tab Ligbo. And when I was out in my village, it was typical for women to go topless. And that's just normal. I have to say number one, it was not a turn on. Because going topless, in fact, desensitizes. Bresses are about nursing children, it's not about sex. And so therefore, I actually got desensitized to breasts by what I did there. The thing that I wanna share though was that the men in Togo reacted extremely strongly to Peace Corps women who would not go topless, of course, but who would dress in shorts and go jogging. And when they saw women's legs, that screamed for those Togolese men, sex, because the upper part of the leg size is close to sex. Bress are distant from that. So societally, what is very acceptable here, women wearing shorts, was completely lascivious in their culture. And obviously, Muslims have a completely different line in some Muslim cultures showing more than the eyes, or even that, is being lascivious. So the standards that I wanna challenge you about, and just at least really here where you're coming from, is topless women, is that lascivious? What constitutes unhealthy behaviors by women in terms of sex, in terms of sexual representation? - As a mother, I am the judgmental. I wouldn't want my daughter, or my granddaughter, when she gets here, if she ever comes, to be in this particular industry. For me, it is not that all the women in Wisconsin are tablets, it is that these women are paid to be topless. In that, I see someone taking advantage of another human being. I do not feel it's appropriate for my daughter to be paid to take off her clothes for men. I believe that God intended for sexuality, for our bodies to be used in a monogamous relationship. And I feel that it is not life affirming for these women, that it takes away from their sense of worth. Simply women don't walk up to you and say, this is what I do for a living. And in the culture where we are so defined, by what we do for a living. And just that I have never met a single woman that said, hi, I do this for a living, tells me that there is some secrecy, and the secrecy perhaps is based in shame. - Possibly in shame, and possibly in the fact that they expect to receive judgment about it. I'm not sure what percentage of our population will judge someone because they work in some facet of the sex industry. But I imagine it'd be significantly high. It's a big risk. - I believe it is a big risk. I believe they are more judged. And one of the things I've seen, when I was being mentored in a more dense population, where there were more strip clubs within an hour, that women drove an hour, hour and a half, even if there was a club, five minutes from their home, they drove an hour, hour and a half, so they got away from their home communities. The women that I serve here, some live here, some are driving in from an hour away, hour and a half away. - So it's clear that to them, there's some danger, shame, some negativity that is connected with the work itself. You know, to some degree, a lot of us are slaves to our profession. How many people do work that they really don't want to have to admit? I've met some people recently who work for health insurance companies who told me they were paid to deny people coverage, no matter what the person claimed, they were told to do that. One person had to quit out of shame working that job, so obviously that's not sex related, but your job can be a place where you compromise your morals, compromise your deep values, it can be a lonely place to work. - Yes, many work environments can be lonely and compromise, sometimes we perceive it as one of those things but this is necessary. I have to do this. There's no other option. When truly with faith, we know that God will provide. Yes, I am a woman and I am not welcome, made to feel shamed by what I do. It may just be in the whispers, oh, you know, we should, I'm limited for this to me, we should shut down this place or that place. And being picketed would make you feel shamed and not welcome in the community. And while we can all be victims of being asked to compromise our sense of right and wrong, I think this, particularly the sex industry, has such an overt shame to it, has just such a capacity to make few people feel cut off from their communities. One of the interesting things that was a real eye opener to me was the first time I was told as we were going into the club, we'd finished praying in the car and we walked into the club, this is in my training, and I wanted to look down on the mountain. No, no, they too are children of God and an important part of our community. - I'm sure that it's been spoken of before, but clearly Jesus didn't hesitate to hang around with people who were considered to be shameful in other people's eyes. And he was castigated a little bit left and right for hanging around with someone who's a prostitute, who's a harlot. So I guess there's pretty good biblical precedent for the work that you do of going in and just saying, you are a loved child of God. Would someone who is not a Christian, for that matter, let's say this person's a Muslim and is concerned about women in the sex trade that wouldn't be at all unusual. And matter of fact, I think maybe Muslim standards would be higher than Christian standards in terms of what constitutes compromise of that. Would they be welcome in your group or does this have to be a Christian group? - As far as I am concerned, if someone wants to walk this path with me, they will be welcome. One of the tenets of our group is that we don't publish a manual and this is the answer to it. If she asks about abortion, this is what you say. If she asks about marriage, this is what you say. We pray and we have faith that the words a woman needs to hear will be put on the heart of the person she sits next to. So while it may be difficult because I am not terribly familiar with the tenets of other faiths, I believe that people of peace can work together. - If you just tuned in, you're listening to Spirit in Action, we're visiting today with Renee Werser. She is a prime force behind a group called Whispered Hopes and their website is wisperthopes.org. I'm Mark Helpsmeet, your host for this Northern Spirit Radio production. Our website is northernspiritradio.org and you can find links to my guest there as well as listen to this program, other programs. You're always welcome to leave comments there. We love hearing from you. As I said, we're speaking with Renee Werser, one of the organizers and volunteers for Whispered Hopes, they witness religiously with love for women who are working in the sex trade in the Chippewa Valley since we're not like Nevada where we don't have legalized prostitution here. That usually involves stripping or other forms, perhaps short of having sex. So Renee, one thing I wanna be clear about, you said you'd be willing to consider someone of a different faith, non-Christian, being part of your group. See if you can work that out. You're certainly open to the idea. Is this concern about sex and I think, perhaps the misuse of women, the exploitation of women? Is this conservative? Is it liberal? Because I think I've heard that there are rabid feminists who are very concerned, who normally are placed on the very liberal end of the spectrum. From your point of view, what does it look like? - That's an interesting question because I haven't labeled it. I think people are called to this no matter whether they're conservative in their faith or conservative in their politics or liberal in their faith or liberal in their politics. If they are called to do this, they have a heart for it. In the year that we have been doing this and I have been preparing almost two. So I prepared a whole year in advance. I did not set out to start a ministry. I went on a fact-finding mission and then realized that I was going to be the one. When I began the fact-finding mission, my first thought was to go work in Amsterdam with a woman who is the face of Christian television into one of the Middle Eastern countries. That's a big bite for a girl from the Chippewa Valley. Okay, who has adult children and a husband analyzed here? What I found at that same place were women who were doing this. And each step of the way, when it was time for me to learn how to do this, these women stepped up. When it was time for us to have a website, my friend John stepped up. I have never asked whether they were liberal or conservative. It didn't matter. What basically matters is their belief that in loving one another, we find joy that it is in showing love to other human beings and not espousing our own agenda, but just simply showing love that we make a difference. - You know, there's some things that are maybe so obvious to you that you don't say them, but one of them that just occurred to me is, I think what you're saying is that women who are working in this trade probably can't receive love. They receive a false version of it. They receive lust, certainly directed at them, but because their relationships with the community are so strained, probably with the unwillingness on their part to be identified with their trade, that they can't find love and admiration in the places most of us do. I can say I do radio programs for Northern spirit radio and people can say, oh, that's a good thing you're doing and they can pat me on the back, but I suppose these women can't get that normal admiration, affirmation and love. So someone has to step forward to do that. And that's your ministry. Did I say it well for you? Could I put out an ad for you? (laughing) - Mark, you did very well. I think while we can't assume anything about everyone in the industry, I do think that the ability to give and receive love may have somehow been damaged by something in our past. And we all have those somethings. I just think they are more prevalent in groups of people who are ostracized from the mainstream. And I think you hit it right on the head. I'm giving and receiving love is such a huge part of most of our lives. And having to be someone you're not, having your life compartmentalized is a very, just, it's an unhealthy environment for all humans. - I'm gonna jump way back to something you said earlier. You talked about it, it's groups of women who go into the clubs to be there to be sporter for the women. You don't have men doing that particular role in your ministry. And I wanted to say, isn't that sexist? - It absolutely is sexist. (laughing) I believe men and women can do wondrous things that we are created equal but different from each other. But one of the things I realized in doing the research and the reading and meeting with people who are leading different ministries within the valley and listening to what they had to say, primary concern here is the health of the people and the acceptance of the people that we are trying to serve and the protection of my volunteers and their families. So I am just gonna stick with, I don't believe that men can sit in a club with me and not be adversely affected by it. I also am much more comfortable, though it is not for me to judge this either, but I am much more comfortable with women my age, which is way over 29. Like me, women who are in monogamous relationships, women who have strong face backgrounds, women who have some life experience over a 22-year-old college graduate who has led a life of purity. - Okay, so it's not that people are not welcome. I just believe that there is a danger here and that there is more danger to a man than there is to someone like me. There is more danger to a young woman of purity than there is to someone who is married and has had children and has lived a little more life. - And so what you're saying is you're volunteers that are going in, you're generally not choosing a 21-year-old as part of your witness team. I can't say that 'cause my group's about 50-50, but it is not like you call me on a Tuesday afternoon and you go with me at five o'clock at night. We have had about 150 women from across the tip of the valley approach me about and have a conversation of that. Eighteen has sat with me and asked questions. Out of that, eight people have actually gone through the process of training and gone to the clubs out of that five remain. Some of them are young, some of them are a little more mature, but all have prayerfully considered the damage that this may do. This isn't to be taken lightly. Because we're a smaller community and because we don't have a lot of clubs, we don't see crimes, but dancers have been stabbed in the clubs in which they work. They have been raped. This happens in the industry and it is not something I'm just going to lightly expose someone to. - In talking with you about this Renee, I've mainly talked about what WISPRD hopes has been doing locally. And again, the website WISPRD hopes.org is where people can find out more information and contact Renee via the website. I've been talking with you Renee about local stuff, but one of the examples that you pointed to me right away was the video out on YouTube by Harmony Dust, who was herself a dancer in the club. And she shares her experience and her ministry in Los Angeles. And I found it very refreshing to listen to her because she's someone who worked in the trade. And so she's speaking about her own experience. And I certainly can't fault her for her own experience. People who are speaking from outside can always be suspect because they can have different agendas. How big is this sex trade nationally? What do we know about? What do we not know about? And I'm talking about people serving as dancers as opposed to prostitution, the other kinds of ways that people can be exploited in terms of their use of their sex. How significant of a problem is this? - About 150,000 children between ages of 12 and 14 years old are lured into prostitution every year in the United States. And those are state department numbers. Now prostitution is not dancing in our local clubs. It's not dancing in the clubs in the bigger cities. They're different, but it is one way that women are being exploited. Locally, I have met about 50 women in the year, in the half two years that I have been working in this. And each one of them has her own unique personality, outlook, style, intelligence. And it's hard to like make them numbers for me. - Yeah, we shouldn't convert them into numbers 'cause if we convert them into numbers, we're doing the same thing that the people who are hiring them for profit are doing, you know, ignoring their humanity and using them for the dollar that someone can make off of them. And of course, we don't wanna do that because your ministry again is all about how can you extend love and acceptance to a person who is not being accepted by the community? - Yes, and our goal is to affirm them in those things that are positive within their lives and affirm these women and help them in any way we can to reach toward something better grater on their journey, just as we do. Whether that's to go to school, to buy a home, to see their daughter graduate from college, whatever that is, we want to help them do that. To have their children involved in the Bible school or a Christmas pageant, when that sometimes seems overwhelming, it may even be so overwhelming that they don't think it's possible. We have run into some of our women in the community and we are very respectful. Put out your hand and just say hi, I'm Renee and put them at ease that they are not going to be ridiculed, exposed or stoned. - When I was living down in Milwaukee before I moved up to Eau Claire, one of my friends, was a woman named Gayle who was part of what's called feminists for life and she was very concerned about abortion and her approach to it was to provide a supportive alternative for women who were trying to say how do I go through carry this child when I don't have support of my family, my husband, whoever it is, how do I go through this? And she originated amongst other things, something called Hope House, which provided a place for people to stay and to meet with other people who are perhaps struggling with similar concerns. Do you do things that are maybe, do you do or are you perhaps going to move towards doing things that are practical? These women who are working in the clubs are working there presumably because that's the place they can best earn enough money to realize whatever objectives they have. Do you have an employment service perhaps? It's like leave that employment but we'll help you get the job, we have a job service. That kind of practical thing, is that part of what you're aiming at? - Actually, we're trying not to be everything to everyone but just one focused place to touch their lives. So first and foremost for us, it's a friendship, it's a relationship, it's a mutual admiration and respect. However, at whisperedhopes.org, we provide information on free clinics. Many of the clubs structure it so that they are self-employed so health insurance is not something that's offered. So are free clinics. The Apple Pregnancy Center in Eau Claire is instrumental in serving women who feel that they're caught with perhaps an unplanned pregnancy. As far as employment. At this point, we don't have anything but we offer an encouraging work when they are in school. Many of them work more than one job. So perhaps in the future. But our role as I believe we are called is to be a bridge into the community that being churches but that also being some of these other services that we know are there and that would not be judgmental about anyone's circumstances as they walk in the door. The other thing we talk a lot about is the abortion issue. We do have people within our community who would be willing to take in a woman who needed a place, abuse services. Again, there are families, places you can go that are quieter, more personal, more relational. So we do have those things to offer. Also, just saying I will pray with you. You have this issue. I will go with you to the clinic. When the time comes, it is an offer we will make. I will go with you to church. My particular faith organization is very open to people who sometimes feel ostracized by society for other reasons, alcoholism, divorce, things that are just wounds we carry. And I have seen people who are further along on this path, actually be in that conversation where I'd like to come to church on Sunday, will you meet me at the front door? I need to go to the clinic if there's someone you recommend. - Well, we're on a trune. What church, what faith organization are you connected with? I usually ask that of my other guests and I think I should ask it of you too. - Okay, my home church is fellowship in Chippewa Falls. We meet at my conference on Sunday morning to 10. And it is a community of people who are attempting to follow Christ. When I came to fellowship within the first few months, there was picketing at the club that was opening and Stanley, making the people who worked there feel ostracized. I'm sure I can't imagine what it would be like to have people pick it. We don't want you here. And I was very new at fellowship and someone came forward and said, we should start a Bible study there. - So the reaction at fellowship was not, let's go condemn people, but let's go with love again. So that's your teacher's at fellowship, I guess. - Yes, yes, it's let's go in love. And at the time, I thought what a beautiful thought, never knowing that I would be the person. And it is, there are others, many others, who feel strongly that this isn't a group of people who are not welcome. And we just want to be a positive force rather than someone who divides. We welcome women from across the valley to join us from other faith organizations, other churches, simply because one size does not fit all. And if a woman is called to sit next to you, perhaps she belongs in the congregation that you are active, the community that you are active in. - Would you say this is a non-denominational church or what is its nature? - It was termed the church of sinners by one of our own members that we all admit our brokenness. And it is, we come from different face backgrounds and it is, yeah, funding from multiple denominations when we started and now just a community that is trying to follow Christ's teachings as best we can. So I hate labels, I'm avoiding them, aren't I? - You can say we avoid labels. - Well, we avoid labels. Yeah, fellowship has been, you know, by our own admission, someone in our organization called us the church of sinners. And what they meant was that people are very real, that we are what we are and we're trying to do better. So people of all denominations are welcome and we are independent of any particular group, I believe. You can get involved in that. - That would be getting involved in labels, I guess. - Oh man, this is hard. This is, thank you for being so patient. - Well, Renee, I'll refer to that as a non-denominational church. You're not part associated with any particular denomination. Were you raised, non-denominational? Were you raised Christians specifically? What was your background that got you to where you are today? - I was raised in a Catholic home and I divorced and got my annulment and remarried and remained Catholic. And at some point, maybe 15 years ago, became very disillusioned in that and left. Then some things started to change about three years ago, my life, four years ago, my life. And those changes in my professional, my work brought me to fellowship and I was just immediately accepted and felt part of this community. And it wasn't people who worshiped the way my family had worshiped, but it was people who lived it. And in every faith there are people living it. I truly believe that, but this was a place in which I really blossomed and I went from not going to church except for weddings in funerals, to going every Sunday, to going on a fact-finding mission about what we could do for people working in the sex industry, to leading whispered hopes in about three years. I mean, it was just a completely amazing path. And one of the things I realized as a volunteer in someone else's ministry, to women who work in the clubs, I would ask to write my story of my faith journey and why I wanted to do this. And as I wrote the story, and now I haven't been actually living in the ministry for about a year, what I realized is that everything, including my upbringing in a Catholic church, prepared me to do this today. And that as I stepped up on my fact-finding mission and came to realize that I was in essence being called, which wasn't the word in my vocabulary, that God had just laid out each step, not a 300 page document with schematics and graphics, but just each step very quietly. This is next, this is next, this is next. And this is the first time I've really gone to talk about it in a very public. Everywhere else I've talked about it has been a small group of people face to face. So this is our next step, to raise awareness that more people would pray for us and that they would rethink if they carry negative attitude about people who work in the sex industry that they would examine that. And that those who might be interested in assisting us by prayer or gifts, helping us purchase gifts for the women, or even coming with us into the club would feel moved to at least explore it. And they can send me a note. It goes directly to me. If you go out to the website, we are not some big nonprofit organization. We are five women and every email from the website comes to my desk. If they want to be part of it, if they want to affirm it, I'd be happy to hear from them. With that, I'm going to say, if you don't feel I'm on the right path out there, I don't need to hear from you. You have your things to do, and I will do mine, and God loves us all. Again, the website is wisperedhopes.org and you can find them via my northernspiritradio.org website. Thank you so much, Renee, for reaching out in love, places that don't receive enough love. We need more love in the world and it sounds like you're in the midst of a ministry to really carry that to the dry places. So thank you so much for your witness and thank you for joining me for spirit in action. - Thank you, Mark. You are an amazing man. - That was Renee Wurzer of Wisperedhopes, today's spirit in action guest, inspired by her and their efforts to be the loving presence to the marginalized in our community. I'm going to send you off with a song, "I Have No Hands but Yours" by Carol Johnson. (gentle music) ♪ I have no hands but yours to tend my sheep ♪ ♪ No handkerchief but yours to dry the eyes of those in me ♪ ♪ I have no arms but yours with which to hold ♪ ♪ The ones grown weary from the struggle ♪ ♪ And weak from growing old ♪ ♪ I have no hands but yours with which to see ♪ ♪ To let my children know that I am up ♪ ♪ And up is everything ♪ ♪ I have no way to feed the hungry souls ♪ ♪ No clothes to give and make it ♪ ♪ The ragged and the morn ♪ ♪ So be my heart, my hand, my tongue ♪ ♪ Through you I will be done ♪ (gentle music) ♪ Fingers have I none to help I'm done ♪ ♪ The tangled knots and twisted chains ♪ ♪ The strangled fearful minds ♪ ♪ I have no one but you to clean the mess ♪ ♪ When more and predisdrop the land ♪ ♪ But I've so richly blessed ♪ ♪ I have no legs but yours with which to taste ♪ ♪ No way to show my faith on this ♪ ♪ Unless your deeper chance ♪ ♪ I have no way to open people's eyes ♪ ♪ Except that you will show them how to trust the inner mind ♪ ♪ So be my heart, my hand, my tongue ♪ ♪ Through you I will be done ♪ ♪ I have no higher call for you than this ♪ ♪ To love and serve your neighbor ♪ ♪ Enjoying selflessness ♪ ♪ To love and serve your neighbor ♪ ♪ Enjoying selflessness ♪ - The theme music for this program is "Turning of the World", performed by Sarah Thompson. This spirit in action program is an effort of Northern Spirit Radio. You can listen to our programs and find links and information about us and our guests on our website, northernspiritradio.org. Thank you for listening. I am your host, Mark Helpsmeet, and I welcome your comments and stories of those leading lives of spiritual fruit. May you find deep roots to support you and grow steadily toward the light. This is Spirit in Action. ♪ With every voice ♪ ♪ With every song ♪ ♪ We will move this world along ♪ ♪ With every voice ♪ ♪ With every song ♪ ♪ We will move this world along ♪ ♪ And our lives will feel the echo of our healing ♪ [MUSIC PLAYING]