Spirit in Action
Stan Gruszynski - Civic Engagement
Stan served in the Wisconsin State Assembly for 10 years, championing sustainable living, farming, and more, and was a keynote speaker at the 2007 MREA Energy Fair. His passion is motivating and connection citizens with our "common wealth", the ways that we can work together for the good of all. I captured his talk at the Energy Fair and visited with him 1-on-1 afterwards.
- Broadcast on:
- 12 Oct 2008
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[music] Let us sing this song for the healing of the world That we may hear as one With every voice, with every song We will move this world along And our lives will feel the echo of our healing [music] Welcome to Spirit in Action. My name is Mark helps me. Each week I'll be bringing you stories of people living lives Of fruitful service, of peace, community, compassion, Creative action, and progressive efforts. I'll be tracing the spiritual roots that support and nourish them in their service Hoping to inspire and encourage you to sink deep roots and produce sacred fruit in your own life. Let us sing this song for the dreaming of the world That we may dream as one With every voice, with every song We will move this world along There was a lot of wonderful stuff going on this past June at the annual M.R.E.A. Renewable energy and sustainable living fair And one bright spot was the keynote by Stan Grisinski Stan gave us a combination civic lesson and pep speech But it went much deeper than that He invited us to think about how we can live our lives the best way possible Which is always soul deep work Stan served in our state assembly for ten years And is currently working at the University of Wisconsin and Stevens Point On a program called the Rural Leadership and Community Development Program Part of the Global Environmental Management Center Pull up a seat and listen to Stan's keynote at the Energy Fair Then we'll take Stan Grisinski aside for an individual visit Welcome to Spirit in Action Stan is here today to give us a civic lesson But before I do all get up and walk away I think this is going to be a little bit different Than what you sat through in high school Please welcome Stan Grisinski [applause] Thank you As I hope you need to say the rules of etiquette are not walk out [laughter] Or throw things would be nice too Happy Midwest Renewable Energy Association Fair Like everyone that I've attended it's hotter than blazes and threatening a storm And raining makes it a little challenging But then challenges are what life is all about I'm going to be pretty candid with you here The reason that I'm not a big time speaker That they don't consider you big time listeners But I really haven't published anything ever I'm mostly just your basic grassroots organizing sort of individual And I've made my life Most of it in political life Most of my time spent political life Sometime in the private sector But always working to build organizations Or build foundations to raise funds for worthwhile projects or ever And that has given me the luxury to be fairly selective So I've ended up now that I'm at least having retirement on the horizon I can look back and say that most everything that I have worked with or on Are things that I've chosen to do And things that I feel in some way or other Make a contribution although they didn't make a big contribution To my retirement pension or pocketbook But nonetheless I'm very happy that I have done it I guess my favorite experience was the ten years that I spent in the Wisconsin legislature Because I learned a lot about the political process How policy is made, how state agencies function and operate In general quite a bit about the interaction that takes place between government and its people Having said that, I really don't want to dwell any more on that But I do want to share with you some observations that I've made over the years And I'm going to tell you the moral of the speech or the point of the speech now In hopes that as I tell you some of these stories and share with you some of these experiences An attempt to motivate you to do some things that you may not have been stretched to do You'll see it has a link to a point that I'm trying to make Having said that, yes, I do work with the Global Environmental Management Center It's a center in the College of Natural Resources and Stevens Point And its focus is on providing practical experiences for our students And the people that we come in contact with That's a lot of state agencies, zoning, planning, watersheds, those sorts of things To give experiences to our students that actually put them in a public realm And allow them to see what they're going to be dealing with Before they actually get that job and get out there and decide as many of our students say I don't want to be a land use planner, I have to deal with people That's their complaint, say they kind of thought that may be able to deal with water sheds Or planning parks or, you know, if they're in fish biology, counting fish But it really bums them out when they find out that all of that is connected to policy And they have to deal with people So part of what we try to do with our center is create opportunities for our students Who are interested in these sorts of conservation and environmental related things To have some experiences while they're in college In the public arena, learning about the give and take in the public arena Because that is going to be essential to their mental health When they get out and take that job So that they don't get out there and take that job And then decide that's not what they want it to do And head back to the university for a master's or a doctorate degree Because they don't want to deal with people I mean, quite frankly, as ironic as it might sound, it is my view That the university harbors a lot of people Who mostly don't want to deal with people Alright? Don't tell any of my colleagues, I said that, they deny it But it's a fact And it's one of the reasons that I've been so insistent that our center And the things that we do really focus on A practical aspect of putting our students in touch with the real world And the things that are going on out there And I had a little slogan as I was thinking about this over the past several days I want to tell you everything and I want to tell you nothing And let me tell you what I mean by that I want to tell you nothing because for the most part, in my opinion Most of you know as much as I do Particularly as it relates to energy, conservation, alternative energy Living a lifestyle that leaves less of a footprint Is becoming a cliche these days So I don't want to go through that And I don't want to parade the horribles About how we should be doing more because we know that With one-tenth of the world's population We're consuming one-third of the world's resources and energy and otherwise I think most of you already know that What I do want to share with you Is a sense for how we can begin to address some of these issues As individuals And I'd like to suggest that we ought to be acting locally While we're thinking about the globe and what is happening to it That it really takes individual action at the local level And this is what I think I think that many of us as citizens do not understand Just how important it is to not only work on these issues and make a difference But also the importance of our example To the friends and neighbors and family And all others who are gathered around us And are watching not only what we do But also trying to survive in this sort of world And in this sort of environment It is important that we get beyond our comfort zone As I was waiting for my family In fact this is the first for me Two grand sons are here today This is the first opportunity that they'll have together To listen to their granddaddy Give a public talk and I hope it doesn't drive a public life Because I really have encouraged my kids and my grandkids To take an interest in public life But as I was sitting waiting for them to arrive on that little pink bench I was looking out over the crowd and I noticed something Many things but one thing in particular I noticed Was that there was no litter on the ground to speak up I mean I think if you really went and looked I think if you really went and looked you know you could probably find some Now that wasn't because people were monitoring and saying pick that up Although maybe a few parents had done it It's because there's a collective sense When you're at this event this has been my experience There's a lot of barriers that I've attended over the 18 years That you have a heightened sense of awareness As to what is appropriate and what isn't appropriate And throwing down your garbage and your waste And those sorts of things simply isn't appropriate here Now that's good and I don't care what motivates that But it does illustrate a point as far as I'm concerned About how that sort of crowd impact That sense of what is right What we ought to be doing can impact our lives in other areas Outside of the grounds of the Midwest Energy Association And one area in particular that I'd like you to think about Is expanding your own base and connections The people that you associate with The things that you take an interest in Your public side to get beyond those who agree with you Now I'll be the first to tell you That there's nothing easier and more fun Than hanging around with people that think the way that you do It is, after all, the right way to think And it's much more comfortable having a discussion With a knowledgeable person than an argument with a blockhead So we tend to move in the direction That allows us to have those comfortable conversations With the people who have a grasp of the issues And an understanding of what's going on But I have learned and I have to practice this If I'm going to be as I'm asking you to be more engaged I've had to practice this in my own community I grew up in northeast Wisconsin I'm happy to be back there now Living on the farm that I grew up on We're not farming it but we did save it from being subdivided And it's a lovely piece of property It frankly cost me what little savings I had But there again when you talk about values As my dad used to say to me when he was offering money for the property for development He used to say money doesn't mean that much to me I didn't understand that as a teenager I understand it now It was more valuable to him to take that little sand farm And build it into a fairly productive small Grade A dairy farm on which we all worked And slaved on hot summer days like this But it taught us good things I believe And it primarily taught me that there were values in this world That went beyond money But getting back to engagement It's important to engage and to get involved And the other night after that big storm we had I think it was last week There was a meeting I think it was Wednesday night As a matter of fact in a little community near where I live I live in Porterfield this was in pound And there was going to be a discussion About the closing of a farm services agency office They were looking at combining the O'Connell And the Marinette offices And this would necessitate the loss of one County director I think they call the people who run the offices I used to work for USDA myself but I forgot that So you'd only have one of those people so it'd be a loss of a position And then there would be well the loss of the office And there'd be a combining of the two counties They weren't sure whether it would happen in O'Connell County Or whether it would happen Marinette County Now I'm not actively engaged in farming But well frankly I like these kinds of meetings Because you always come away from this thing I went kicking and screaming even though it was a free choice Why am I going there must be a storm I can look at damage somewhere You know drive around in the car or whatever But no I decided to go because I wanted to see how people would react to this You know how are they going to react to this consolidation This reduction of services And we went and the state director was there and he explained Why he had to make this decision The fact is Washington isn't looking to expand the farm services administration in Wisconsin With changing dynamics in rural Wisconsin Less farmers out there were looking at more consolidation Not because it isn't important to have these offices he was saying But because Washington has decided that there must be more efficient ways to do this Whether it's with computers or otherwise And even though some of these farmers would have to travel 50 or 60 miles If they consolidated these offices To have their paperwork done in the long run It's the only alternative because there's nowhere else to go with it Because there's no money at the federal level To fund these sorts of things And the reaction was one of disappointment And a few timid folks raise their hands and says Well what are they thinking about Washington? I was thinking just what I was thinking But I didn't want to say it And he says don't they understand that these offices are really efficient And when you look at it on national scale the O'Connell office One of the most efficient offices in the country Well if you reduce it by one person and we have to do more with less And people have to travel farther won't the office become less efficient Well we hope not we hire good people blah blah blah all of these kinds of things Well the upshot of this whole thing was that there was no backing away from it As far as the message bear that's the state director And the advisory board that's those farmers who are appointed to advise the state director There was nowhere to go with this And I was thinking about how many times in my life I have heard it Related to issues that are important to me Whether it's cleaning up the environment Or developing alternative energy sources So are not so dependent on fossil fuels Or ensuring that we have a good K through 12 education system Or maintaining our parks and our wild lands And our lakes and all that go with it It's always the same argument There isn't enough money for us to be able to take care of our common wealth That which is important to this society It's important as what we hold in common It's good to have individual wealth It's important to have a private life It's good to have a business and have it work It's good that you take care of your family But I don't believe that a society can be strong If it doesn't have the third leg to the stool And the third leg to the stool is public interest in public life To engage the political process and make it work for you So I'm sitting there getting frustrated and a little agitated Because agitation is my middle name Just check with my family if you don't believe that And I start to do arithmetic Not my strong subject, by the way Alright, arithmetic But I've gotten pretty good at rounding out the numbers And here's what I was thinking Once again we're getting this same thing Cost 16 million dollars for an interchange on a foreign lane highway That's when I was in the legislature I'm sure it has doubled by now And I used to think there's a big issue here in Stephen's point Whether we actually needed that interchange Over between highway B and highway 10 The HH interchange? That is... Right, right, right At any rate, that cost 16 million dollars to build that interchange Now you start adding it up, say there are ten towns Ten times 16, that's what? 160 million, I believe Ever a Dirksen once said, a million here, a million there Pretty soon you're talking real money So I can real money Anyway, the interchange went through But here's the part that went through my mind So I'm sitting there thinking what I heard on public radio Not too long ago and everyone sort of concedes this That before this war is over And God, I hope it ends And we get our troops back as soon as possible In out of harm's way But before it's over It's going to cost this country three trillion dollars And I frankly, I know it's a lot But I can't figure it out And actually when I was riding back from this farm meeting I was sitting in the car, I have a pad in there And I was trying to ride it out and count out the zeros To see if I got it right because I was kind of eager to do the arithmetic on it And I never did get it figured out But I worked it out for you and I think I'm right So we've got three trillion dollars And I'm thinking of FSA And now in Wisconsin, they're closing down two offices So that's two positions with fringe benefits That's about $125,000 a piece So I'm thinking let's be generous Let's not only not close down these positions But let's add ten to Wisconsin For rural development After all, they're talking about the need for rural renaissance Wouldn't it help for the federal government to inject some money In a rural renaissance and put people on the ground Who could begin to do that Forward thinking people, thinking about Wisconsin's options And its possibilities and its hard working population And its resources So I was getting ginned up about this And I realized it only cost 1.2 million dollars To put ten people on the ground in Wisconsin I got pretty excited about it I thought why just Wisconsin? Let's make it all 50 states What the heck? We've got three trillion And so I did the arithmetic And 50 states would be 60 million dollars For 60 million dollars we could begin to create a rural renaissance And guess what, that leaves two trillion 999 billion and 940 million dollars So I started getting more excited about this And I thought, well, let's take the big plunge They're talking about healthcare costing us 35 billion dollars To put together some kind of an adequate health care program in this country The reason it's so cheap, by the way, that is cheap for this country Is because we're already paying for a health care system It's just so bloated and top heavy And administratively inept that it's costing us a ton And that's not just my opinion I mean anyone that assesses American health care From a cost-benefit ratio will tell you that So I thought I'd be fairly conservative and estimate 35 billion That's what most of the presidential candidates on both The Democrat and Republican side are kind of hemming And hollying about 35 billion So I subtracted and then it leaves us two trillion 965 billion 940 million dollars Man, I wasn't home yet, I had more money to spend So then I think, well, you know, I've spent most of my time in energy Confirmation, these kinds of issues I couldn't think of a program right off the top of my head But I thought, why don't we just give a billion dollars to each of the 50 states And tell them we want them to start thinking avant garde Futuristic things about what we can do about energy And how we can make things better And how we can create incentives for people to do things with wind and solar And biomass and all the other options that we have here And I thought, you know, I realize you can't base it on the state Because it's based on population But geez, 50 billion was such a nice round number rolling off the top of my tongue So I subtracted that and ended up with two trillion 915 billion and 940 million dollars still left to spend So I quickly just made a few things up And I thought, how about 300 million for state of the art technology For our K-12 education system? Huh? How about that? How about getting to those young people with more than slogans About not being left behind? How about making sure we just take them forward Into the next generation, like the Japanese, the Europeans And the Chinese are doing in a mad frenzy There's an idea, so I thought, boy, I must be getting closer So I subtracted my, what was it here? 300 million. I still have 2,900 billion and 40 million left That 40 million bothered me, it just screwed things up Because 2,900 billion just sounds better to have in your pocket You know, than that loose change So I just decided, we're going to take that 40 million dollars And expand the Head Start program The most successful education and low income focused program That this country has ever known In terms of getting the resources to the people who need it Poor children to give them a chance and an opportunity To get into school and do some good with their lives And statistically they can show as they have shown over and over and over again That that is exactly what it accomplishes And still they try to fight people like Dave Obie Who fights for those causes every single day of his life out there Well, that left me with $2,900 billion and I was home And I couldn't think of anything else to spend it on So I thought, why spend it at all? We just won't borrow it And then we won't saddle my grandkids, your grandkids With that $60,000 of debt that they're going to have to pay off Individually over the course of their lifetime Now doesn't that get you sort of ginned up thinking about it That way, when people say to you they don't have money To do things in the area of real energy development Of alternative energy and conservation and education And treatment of our veterans and others who are less fortunate There is plenty of money there When I was in the state legislature, that's one of the things I learned There's lots of money, we're just short of priorities That's what we're short of That was Stan Grzinski, you're listening to At the MREA's annual renewable energy and sustainable living fair I recorded him there and we'll have a personal visit with him afterwards This is Spirit in Action and I'm your host, Mark Helpsmeet Part of Northern Spirit Radio So let's go back and continue listening to Stan Grzinski's talk At the Energy Fair The federal government, lots of money We're just a little shaky on our priorities and where we want to spend that money And that's why U.S. citizens are so important And I'm going to tell you what you're thinking You're thinking this is a good talk in a way and it's sort of exciting And he's probably right, but you're not thinking about what you're going to do with this Because that takes you outside your comfort zone And I know you're all going to move back to townships, at least most of you Unless you've got a little enclave somewhere Where you look at your neighbor and think, "Holy wow, I'm not going to go talk to that" And knucklehead about those kinds of things Because it's very difficult, I understand But I've given this talk or talked similar to it over the course of my lifetime on more than one occasion And guess what I finally decided to do not too long ago, a couple years ago I decided I had to live what I tell other people they need to do And one day I just walked out on the porch of that farm on Twin Creek Road And I thought no matter what knuckleheads these folks might be I've got to get to know them on their level and guess what, they're not knuckleheads They're people struggling to make a living They are people who haven't had the opportunities that I've had to travel and see things They are people who have suffered because of things outside of their control And beyond their circumstances allows them to be where they are They hunger to know a better way They hunger to have community, they want nothing more than to believe that they belong to a community A state and a nation that has a big heart The only good thing that has come out of this intervention in the Middle East in my opinion Is a realization by the American people that we are on the wrong track And it is damaging what we thought was a good and honorable reputation And there's only one way to turn that around You can't applaud anymore, we're just about out of time here There's only one way to turn that around And that's by those of us who are out there Interested in caring about these issues every single day of our lives Making an effort to make a difference I could cite some examples and maybe I will write in my neighborhood And frankly, to tell you the truth, I grew up over there Most of the people living there are descendants of families that we've known And they are good people I'm not sure they voted for me when I ran for Congress over there But that doesn't mean they're not good people They're a little touchy about things like the DNR They're probably a little over armed In terms of what's actually necessary To hunt and fish and engage in sports sort of activities, which I do too But that's beside the point of small detail, just keep a low profile If you're approaching the house But the thing that I've learned is that for me to believe that I know and they don't And that somehow they should learn these things all on their own So they can be like me, it's a very arrogant way to approach life In my opinion, the inroads that I have with my neighbors Now after having moved back there and reestablished myself And took all of the three or four years I've been up there for their fear of my having Been contaminated in Madison, sort of subside But now I'm developing relationships with them and I'm developing these relationships Not because they want to know me, but because I want to know them And because I'm learning for the first time what a wealth of information I have When I asked and she accepted the older lady who lives on the hill Who needed to ride into town because she could no longer see and she needed groceries And she had a doctor's appointment to go to and I asked if she ever needed to ride one day When I decided to stop by and she said yes, and I took her I realized that I was not being put out by this I realized that since my mom passed away ten years ago and my dad, almost two years ago No one knows the history of that community anymore And she does, so every ride into town teaches me a little bit about my community I learn who lived where, where they moved to, who they bought it from Who they married into, who didn't turn out so well All of these sorts of things I'm learning about my community And I'm also learning a little bit about her attitudes about things Her understanding of the political system and process, who she thinks is doing a good job for her And the degree to which the propaganda that she gets from political parties and organizations And otherwise the degree to which it's soaking in and having an impact on her I'm building a relationship with my neighbors And when you begin to build a relationship with your neighbors, you begin to have community And when you begin to have community, if nothing else, you're better off Two years ago, on Twin Creek Road, we lost five mailboxes I don't know what that was all about, exactly Mine wasn't one of them, but the one just west of mine was In fact, I thought it was a dead animal on the road until I walked down So I was the mailbox, I was relieved because it wasn't mine Mine was standing, and then I tracked it to where it had come from And in the process, I realized that three or four others were gone as well I suspect that someone went mailbox hunting, you know, and it was late at night And they just took them all with the four-wheel drive for sport It's a small community and it gets boring (laughter) But here's the point, I had the good fortune of taking an apple pie, which my mother taught me to make To sort of the patriarch of that Twin Creek Road, his family had been there longer than anyone else's His wife had died, she had been my babysitter when I was a kid And so I went up there, she passed away when I was out of the area So it was kind of several weeks, and I went with the pie and just said I was sorry And I gave him the pie, and then a few days later his daughter called and said Is this who you are, you know, you brought my dad a pie, it was you, I said yes it was Well that was really thoughtful and nice of you, well I suspect that the mailboxes that went out Were kind of connected to that patriarch if you catch my drift And so, you know, if nothing else, that pie saved me a mailbox (laughter) Now you think I'm making up that story, I'm not, that is a true story And I don't see why mailbox should have been spared, it was a good target, and an easy pick And no brush or deep ditches, and I really think That as you begin to develop these kinds of relationships, things change So if you can leave this event today, or this weekend, and you can go back into your community And instead of saying the next time that they want to cut money for parks Or they don't want to do improvements for people who are living in substandard housing Or they don't want to adequately fund the care of our veterans who are coming back And those who are here now, the next time you hear that argument about what a shame Think about saying it wouldn't have to be That after all we managed to come up any time we feel like it With three and four and five trillion dollars, it doesn't matter what it takes And maybe what we need to do is, I'm talking as if I were you now Maybe what we need to do, as friends and neighbors, is make a stronger effort To let those know who are in charge that this has to change Now here's a suggestion for you, just so you don't think I'm sending you off to Madison Or Washington when you're too busy to do it Just go down to the next town board meeting Just go there and sit in, if you don't say a word, you'll put them all on pins and needles And if you say something, they'll be relieved because then they'll be able to pinpoint what you care about And if you do say something, just say, you know, I've been thinking to myself that I want to be more engaged in my community Well don't use that's too fancy I want to do more in my community And I thought the best place to start is with you folks on the town board or the village council The city council or whatever else you do And I thought, you know, it's about time I come down and listen to the discussions Because Lord knows you people are under a lot of pressure and you're doing a heck of a job And I want to be able to help any way we can Because you know, every time I hear people talking about the fact that we don't have enough money for our schools Or our roads if you happen to need them or our parks or our elderly or whatever else I think we could find it if we put our heads together, don't you? Alright? That's what you say to them, don't you? And then one of them will brightly point out to you that we don't handle those issues at the town level And then you point out to them, yeah, but we ought to be thinking about them, shouldn't we? Because you know what, most folks get together with other town people at their annual conventions And their bi-annual conventions, whatever else they do They begin to talk about what they're hearing out there And when they start hearing that more and more people are interested in developing the infrastructure To put together a common wealth, a nation that we can be proud of Because of what we're willing to invest in our children and our grandchildren And the degree to which we want to protect and take care of our environment And the degree to which we want to be a sustainable society That doesn't use and abuse our human and natural resources When that message gets out, when you begin to talk to your friends and neighbors And they begin to talk to others, and that begins to filter up the food chain in the political process That's how change is made That's what's going to make a difference Don't you see, waiting for them to do it is playing into their hands They're there Why would they want to change a system that put them there? There are a few exceptions to it, but by and large it's locked in And those who are benefiting from the structure and system, the way it is now, they want to keep it that way So if you want to take what you know, if you want to take the values that you believe in If you want to make a difference for the future, then as my dad would say, when he sort of Inacrately would quote the testament, you've got to take your knowledge out from under a bushel basket And do something with that Or, you know, he'd say to me, "Light that first candle rather than curse the darkness" He was full of all sorts of these sorts of things, and they all seem to be related to farm chores But my point is, he got what he wanted He got me thinking, or at least immobilized, and concentrated on the things that he needed to get done And over time it helped me realize that we were in this thing together You know, Bill McGibbons, I think it's Bill McGibbons He's got a book out now a lot of environmentalists and others are reading and is called The Deep Economy That book is about questioning our values You know, we all know that things should be different But what he says basically in that book is, I understand it Is perhaps the system that we're using to get to what we value isn't working for us And that if we really examine what it is, we value That we might begin to think about changing the political process that gets us to the policies that we have And maybe it isn't just a matter of how much I can accumulate Or how well I can take care of myself But rather how well we can take care of ourselves as a nation The degree to which we can create for ourselves a common wealth that is sustainable That works, that does not exploit And does what I believe most Americans want to accomplish And that is set an example for the world about how democracy is a better way to be (Applause) Well, we have just about a run out of time here Although I haven't run out of verbiage (Laughter) But I do want to allow some time for questions and answers Because I know that oftentimes it's not just me, others who give remarks like this They leave things out that people think should have been mentioned They make suggestions about how things are workable but they don't take some things into account So I want to allow for you an opportunity to ask some questions And right before I do that though, I would like to ask you to look around at this energy fair Look at the people that you've known for years if you've come here for years And examine those who are leaders in making contributions to their communities Through their businesses, through their political efforts Through their organization and otherwise And support and reinforce that Now I was one of the first Midwest Renewable Energy Association meetings Back when they called it, what did they call it, way back 20 years ago Something energy, the Amherst Energy Fair, I think it was Okay, whatever, yeah, right, I was at one of their first meetings They were trying to figure out how to get funding I was in the legislature, I was interested in this I was thinking there's plenty of money, I won't go through that story again For good things to happen But the Board had quite a debate and discussion about where it would get its money from Should we approach corporations who might be willing to sponsor the fair? We don't want to do that because we don't want to associate well with those types And their money And so there was quite a discussion then and so I was invited to the meeting, so I made what I thought was a pretty nice offer I said, I'll tell you what, I really think that you just need a little push up and over the top So why don't we look at getting some state money through the state budget On a one time basis so you don't get addicted to this kind of money And we'll get the energy fair up and running Could be a small grant, maybe $100,000 Something like that Well they like the idea of the money but they didn't think getting money from the state Would be a good idea either You don't want to get obligated to the state Don't want them taking your power away and regulating So they were right back, they aren't even with themselves again About where they're going to get the resources But through it all, through that adversity Through that give and take Through the differences of opinion They built a strong community and they built this fair to what it is today You don't get community where there is no tension in opposition You build community off the differences that we each have as individuals You take that forward and you ultimately the goal is to build a stronger, better and healthy society Be well and I'll answer any questions you have, thank you (Applause) Yes? Do you have a lot of feelings of lobbyists? I wasn't a congressman actually, I was a state representative Well yes and no, I mean because everyone's considered lobbyists So when I was chairing the higher education committee People would come from the university and lobby me And they were considered university paid lobbyists So they'd come to me and talk with me And there were, you know, I had people from the utilities companies and otherwise I had a very open door in terms of meeting with people But I think I had one advantage over a lot of my colleagues This is before I became fashionable And of course he was a colleague of mine at the time Senator Russ Feingold, he and I believed in this But I set limits on where I would get my money from I set limits, no PAC money Of course we couldn't take corporate contributions And I set my limits at $100 per individual That's all I would take for my campaigns And as a result, I didn't ever have to talk with anyone And feel like I was in any way obligated So I could listen to the merits of the issues And I did Yes? I want to know about why some people say we owe Like $1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. Well, I don't think anyone really knows because, you know, a lot of this war is off budget So, I mean, I'm not going to argue whether it's 3 trillion, 7 trillion, 9 trillion, or whatever, it's a lot of money. And I'm not an economist, but from what I'm learning and people are telling me, the unfortunate part of this is most of this debt is being bought up by China, which means if the bank is buying up your house, you don't really own your house. The bank owns your house if you go to a bank for a lot of money to buy a house. And as a nation, if you go to other nations and ask them to buy your debt because you consider yourself to be the most powerful nation in the world, and sooner or later you'll be able to buy your way out of debt because your economy is the largest and the strongest, that's all well and fine as long as it all plays out that way. But the economists seem to be indicating that our economy is a strong economy, but it might not be viable in terms of the only strong economy down the road. And as we sell our debt to other nations, we really put this nation in jeopardy. Any other questions? Yes? Yes, I think that all of these efforts toward true community and strengthening the common wealth is helpful to the cause. Here's the danger in my opinion. The danger is that people begin to believe it's -- it's -- it goes back to the garbage theory on the ground, all right? If you think that move on.org is going to address your issues, and of course they like to present it that way because that's how they inspire you to contribute to them, you run the risk of thinking subconsciously or unconsciously that someone else is doing it for you, in that your contribution is sort of paying your way. You're hiring mercenaries to do the public work. Let me illustrate this from the standpoint of Benjamin Franklin. He was an old man. He walked out of that constitutional convention. He wasn't convinced that the Constitution and the Republic was the right thing for America if you read his memoirs. His reason was, as he explained, was he didn't think there was enough of a firewall. He didn't use that expression. I'm using it. Between the privileged and the well-to-do and their ability to control the Republic as it was being framed by our framers, those who argued against that said, well, we had the Constitution and later the Bill of Rights to protect us. But that was his worry, and when he walked out and a woman walked up to him and said, "Mr. Franklin, what have you given us?" He turned to her and said, "We've given you, dear woman, a Republic. The question is, can you keep it?" And I always thought that that was kind of a cliche, but he meant, "Can you keep it? Will you be aware? Will you be engaged? Will you assume your mantle of responsibility as a citizen in a Republic, a democratic Republic to act each and every day in some way to ensure that this system works right for you and for all of the common wealth?" That's what I think he meant by that, and that's our obligation. Go move on.org. More power to you. I was pleased here on Public Radio that there are over a million organizations in the world doing good, trying to do good. The problem is, in my opinion, they're not connected to each other because we're not building the relationships that we need to create a society. There, I'm going to ask another question along those lines. Thank you very much. You've been great. That was Stan Grisinski speaking at the Energy Fair, June of 2007. I had some more questions after he was done, so I gave him a call, and here's Stan Grisinski from his office in Stephen's Point. Stan, thanks so much for joining me for Spirit in Action. I'm very pleased that you asked me to do so. Tell us a little bit about where you work. You didn't say much about that when you were speaking at the MREA. Mark, I work at the University of Wisconsin, Stephen's Point. It's in the College of Natural Resources. Within the college, there's a center called the Global Environmental Management Center that has an international focus. It also has an Institute for Land Use Planning and Water Resources. Then there's a Rural Leadership and Community Development component, and I direct that Rural Leadership and Community Development Program. Of course, you know, I was there listening to you at the Energy Fair and thought you did a great job. I hope that those statements inspired some people to stand up and carry through your suggestions. So just, again, congratulations for doing that work there at the Energy Fair, getting the word out to a lot of folks. You served in the Wisconsin State Assembly from 1984 to 1994. Why did you leave, and are you happy to no longer be serving our state in that way? Well, first of all, Mark, let me say thank you for your kind remarks relative to my talk at the Renewable Energy Association. I've been connected at least on the periphery with the organization and with the people involved with that from the early days. I give them a lot of credit for what they're both trying to do and what they've accomplished over the years. In terms of my time in the legislature, I never intended to serve more than 10 or 12 years. When I was elected in 1984, this is considered to be a fairly safe Democratic seat. I ran as a Democrat and was elected, and people said I'd probably be able to hold the seat for as long as I wanted it. And someone said, "Yeah, you'll be there for the rest of your life." And I said, "No, I won't. I really don't intend to serve in this capacity that long." I decided after 10 years in the assembly to focus on other things that I was interested in doing. Not to mention my family, my mother was ill at the time, and I wanted to spend more time with my mom and dad. So it wasn't because there was something that got out of the closet like they found out you were a Democrat or something? No, it was nothing like that. In fact, being a Democrat, being Polish, and being a Catholic in Stephen's point, Wisconsin is pretty much sure ticket to success unless you make a very, very serious mistake in judgment somewhere along the way. Well, let's talk a little bit about your service in the legislature. What was the best legislation that you advanced while you were in our state assembly, and what was the best that actually got passed and enacted? Well, I guess in terms of a personal sense of accomplishment, I feel good about work that I did in two areas. One would be, in a more general sense, education and specifically higher education. I chaired the colleges and universities committees, so I had a lot to do with the issues that were facing the university during the 10 year that I was there. We worked hard, and I think we did a pretty good job of keeping tuition affordable in the state and making sure that there was access to higher education through both loans and grants. So my work with higher education, I'm proud of in a general sense. More specifically, I put a lot of effort into issues concerning both environmental education and environmental protection and raising awareness of people of the importance of our agricultural land, farm land, forest lands, and in general good stewardship of the land. It was legislation that I introduced with Dave Helbach from this area that created the Central Wisconsin Environmental Education Center. That's housed here at the College of Natural Resources. They work with K through 12 groups around the state. It also provides grants to communities to focus on environmental education, not just for young people, but for the community at large. That was the first in the nation, and it was modeled in a lot of other states, so I'm proud of that. But I also did work on a program that was called Farms for the Future that really put an emphasis on the importance of preserving Wisconsin's farm land and looking early on at urban sprawl and the effect that it was having in terms of the loss of farmland around the state of Wisconsin. In the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences in Madison, I helped create a Center for Integrated Ag Systems, which took the emphasis away from chemical pesticide control and put it on other ways of dealing with it so we didn't have to have so much pesticide input. And I look back on the ten years, and while I didn't accomplish everything I wanted to accomplish, I feel that I made a very good effort with the support of my constituency at getting at some of the issues that were critical at least at the time. I'm glad you did that work. I want to talk to you about some stuff in touching on religion, spirituality, and politics. I'm curious about your views about Democrats and religion. I think it's unfortunately safe to say that liberals, leftists, or perhaps Democrats, are assumed to be less religious, if not even actively anti-religious, by some of the general population. How does that look from where you sit as a member of the Democratic National Committee? Well, I think what happens, Mark, is that from my perspective, I think there are some of us as Democrats who feel that our Constitution intended that there would be a clear distinction between church and state. Many Democrats are sensitive to that, that they want to be sure that that firewall is there, that barrier, so that you don't have people using their religion as a rationale for instituting certain types of laws or policies that reflect only their religion and not the religions of other people. So as a result, I think that Democrats, by and large, have been quick to point out when they think that line has been crossed. Now, on the other side of this, I want to make it very clear, I think that spirituality is very important, both in terms of an individual's character and in terms of how we see ourselves as a nation. And then that nation, how it is a part of the larger world and how that world will be governed, how we will use its resources, how we will coexist as a people. And I think in order to have a more peaceful world, we must constantly reflect on those, in a spiritual way, on those values that we consider to be very important. I was raised to Catholic, I believe in Christ's teachings as it relates to how we should treat our neighbors, how we should view the world. In many ways, that's my interpretation, as it always is. But it is a factor in how I conducted myself, both as a legislator, and how I conduct myself as a private citizen. In its simplest forms, for example, Christ's teachings had to do with basically loving your neighbor. If you take that view of the world that we have a responsibility first to see the good in those around us, it takes us a long way toward finding common ground and having a more peaceful world. Along those same lines, when asked whether you should honor Caesar or honor the Lord, Jesus' response was, "Well, render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is God." I sort of subscribe to that. I think that we have a dual responsibility. One is to creating a healthy and safe and peaceful society. And the other is to be guided by our spiritual underpinning, regardless of what particular religion that happens to be. A few decades from now, when Stan Gresinski is no longer standing on this planet, what would you like to be remembered for specifically? And that might be what you hope to get done before you leave, or maybe something you've already done. What's the thing that you most probably would like to be remembered for? I think first of family, and what my kids think about me, and then what my siblings think about me and otherwise. And I think that in terms of my family, most think that I'm pretty much dedicated to the idea that people ought to take responsibility for their lives and take action toward the good of the larger community. I am personally not so interested in having people point to this, or that is something that I had somehow personally accomplished in my life. As much as I would like people to say, "While Stan Gresinski was here, he motivated me to do this, or he caused me to think about that differently, or he helped me understand how I could be a better and more productive citizen." Those are the kinds of things that I guess I find myself doing most often, and the things that I realize that I'm probably best at. Now that's not to say that I'm always appreciated for those things. It's difficult for all of us to get out of our comfort zones, but I truly believe that in order for us to have a peaceful and just and sustainable society, and we're getting to critical mass here, I really think it behooves each and every one of us as citizens to do what we can in a way that also embraces our spirituality, our values, and our common interests in terms of what we believe our nation should be. I'm right in there with you. You did a great speech there at the Energy Fair, and you've done so much good work, and you continue to do it. Thank you for all that work that you've done, and I imagine you've got decades of more of it ahead of you. Thank you, Mark. I hope so, and I just want to say I appreciate both your interest and the interest of your listeners in these matters. Thank you very much. That was Stan Grisinski, who spent ten years as a member of Wisconsin State Assembly, my guest for today's Spirit and Action program. The theme music for this program is Turning of the World, performed by Sarah Thompson. This Spirit and Action program is an effort of Northern Spirit Radio. You can listen to our programs and find links and information about us and our guests on our website, northernspiritradio.org. Thank you for listening. I am your host, Mark Helpsmeet, and I welcome your comments and stories of those leading lives of spiritual fruit. May you find deep roots to support you and grow steadily toward the light. This is Spirit in Action. With every voice, with every song, we will move this world along. With every voice, with every song, we will move this world along, and our lives will feel the echo of our healing. (upbeat music)