Spirit in Action
Chante Wolf - Veterans for Peace
I have no hands but yours to tend my sheep No handkerchief but yours to dry the eyes of those who weep I have no arms but yours with which to hold The ones grown weary from the struggle and weak from growing old I have no hands but yours with which to see To let my children know that I am up and up is everything I have no way to feed the hungry souls No clothes to give and make, give the ragged and the morn So be my heart, my hand, my tongue Through you I will be done The fingers have I none to help untime The tangled knocks and twisted chains The strangled fearful minds Welcome to Spirit in Action. My name is Mark Helpsmeat. Each week I'll be bringing you stories of people living lives of fruitful service, of peace, community, compassion, creative action and progressive efforts I'll be tracing the spiritual roots that support and nourish them in their service. Above all, I'll seek out light, love and helping hands Being shared between our many neighbors on this planet, hoping to inspire and encourage you to sink deep roots and produce sacred fruit in your own life I have no way to open people's eyes, except that you will show them how to trust the inner mind My guest today on Spirit in Action is Shanti Wolfe. Shanti spent 12 years in the military, leaving on her birthday in 1992, which meant that she was part of the first Gulf War Back then, she was called Sharon Haller, thought of herself as a Republican, and nearly killed someone who messed with her gun She speaks eloquently of the changes she's been through, starting out Baptist, Methodist, a self-described Bible Thumper, a partier, and currently an activist with veterans for peace and a tender of quicker meetings in the Twin Cities of Minnesota Shanti, thanks for joining me for Spirit in Action. You're very welcome, thank you for asking You picked a nice place, here it is on a Saturday afternoon over in Twin Cities, and outdoors in the beautiful climate How long have you been living in Twin Cities? I've been here since 1999, it's seven years And what got you here, at one point we're in the military, how did you go from the military to being here? How much time do you have? I left the military in 1992 on my birthday, I did that intentionally because I considered that move to be a reburthing, a different direction, a different path for me I went home, my home is in Florida, my parents opened up home to me, gave me roof over my head, plenty of food in my belly, so that I could go to school I got an undergrad degree in Anthropology and Women's Studies And during that time, actually a very significant event happened, in about 1994, I had this very vivid dream in which that's where my name comes from My real name is Sharon Hallard, I was given this name of Shanti, and I followed this woman in a white chiffon dress out into this lovely woods in this field There were animals from all over the world, and she said for me to choose one, and I chose the wolf Well she said that was very good, you are the shape shifter of the wolf and the protector of children It just blew me away, it was like well where in the world did that come from, and dreams to me are very important Actually after that dream, I had a series of dreams where I was in the military and rescuing groups of people who had been hoarded up and taken to football stadiums and whatnot Little did I know that that's kind of what is going on in Iraq right now, but anyway, what that did for me was it put me on a path of trying to reclaim my spirituality Reclaiming who I am as a human being I wanted to find that part of my soul that was dead and I wanted to know what in the world that dream meant to me What was the purpose, and actually that was the time when I changed my major to anthropology and women's studies because it kind of put me on that path of trying to figure out what does this mean As I started looking into Sanskrit and trying to find what does shante mean, what does it mean? Eventually what it led to my going to school was dissecting my life up to that point I used all my research projects to dissect what war is, what the military is To really look at me who I was as a woman and why I joined the military What are the consequences of women being in the military and in combat? And I also started to write a book and in order for me to really be honest which is what it needs to be I had to look at my sexuality so I at that time came out as a lesbian Which was a lot harder than going to war quite honestly, but I just kind of did it and I felt like well You know what? I don't really care what anybody says about me I've earned the right to be who I am as a human being I've earned the right to reclaim my humaneness I've earned the right to be a tree hugger My partner was from here from the Twin Cities and we were at the time looking to leave Florida And I just had this overwhelming calm embraced I felt embraced So I made the suggestion well why don't we move up to the Twin Cities Well when she picked herself up off the floor because she thought I was stark raving lunatic Do you realize what the winter is like? Oh it'll be fine, it'll be fine So that's kind of the longest short of it of coming up here So we're no longer partnered but And is the winter fine? Well you know what after seven years holy cow it's rough on me on my body But I feel too that I've picked stuff up from the Gulf War that makes it hard on my joints and stuff In the winter time I'm a little more skeptical But I still love it here, I honestly do I want to just try and get an overview of your life path You're born in 1957, 1980 I think you went in the military You left the military on your birthday in 1992 just after the end of the Gulf War I 94 you had a dream and seven years ago which I guess makes it 99 You became a northern woman That's correct So why the military, why in, why out, why shanty woof Why aren't you a republican anymore? Well, okay, why the military? By the time I was 15 years old, my dream, my focus, my love was photography I grew up with National Geographic magazines, my grandparents So I was weaned on photography on some of the best in the world And it was something that comes natural to me, I'm not trained I am multi-award winning and published Although I just didn't know how to go about making it my work And I wasn't really too encouraged from my family Just because they didn't know what to say to me either Because they come from, you know, my mom is from a coal mining town in West Virginia My father comes from a farm in Fort Wayne, Indiana So their idea of work was you join the institution Whether it be the military or a corporation They didn't quite know what to do with me because I didn't fit in that box anywhere You know, I didn't come out with a lawyer stamped on my forehead Or I was gonna be a nurse or whatever And by the time I was 22 years old, you know, I had already been a maid, a waitress, a cook I worked at a dude ranch in North Carolina, I worked at a bait and tackle place right on the beach And I wasn't married, I didn't have kids, I wasn't in college, they were really confused What are they gonna do with me? I'm not like I'm supposed to be All they did know was that I wanted to be a photographer and I was good at it So my father suggested the military And I looked at him and I said, "Are you nuts? I'm not gay and I'm not a whore Why would I want to join the military?" That was my mindset at that time I never aspired to be in the military I had no interest whatsoever I wanted to be a photographer, but for my father It was a way of putting me where I would get disciplined Where I would fit in that little box I would get training, I would get the opportunity to travel around the world I would have clothing, I'd be fed, I'd have health and dental Those were the important issues for my family So it kind of planted a seat I mean, you know, well, shoot, I hadn't looked at this, maybe he's got something there And I went down to the recruiter, I even asked the recruiter how pretty the women were Because I just wanted to make sure, you know, I wasn't going to jump into something that I was trying to keep very closeted And of course I asked him about photography, and of course they said, "Well, yes, we'll train you in photography" Cool, so I signed on the paper, went down to the induction center, paraded around in my bra and underwear You know, because you have to go through your physical exam and all of that Which was very eye-opening, very intimidating And suddenly I found myself sitting at this table being kind of surrounded by this huge essence of power And when they gave me my test results of my aptitude testing, and they said, "Well, what is the job choice of yours?" And I said, "Photography" and they kind of chuckled and they said, "We're sorry, it's closed field, you'll need to pick something else" So they pull up this big white book and plop it down in front of me and I'm thinking to myself, "There's no way in the world that I'm going to get up and walk away" I don't have that kind of self-esteem where I'm going to say, "You know what, guys? That blows, I'm out of here" I felt stuck, what would my parents think? What would my family think? My grandparents and everybody else? So I started looking through this book and I ended up picking air traffic control And actually, it was a very good experience in that regard because it was the first time in my life that I didn't feel stupid That was one of the reasons I didn't go to college was I didn't think I was smart enough for one, and for two I wasn't going to have my parents waste their hard earned money Putting me through something that I didn't think that I could make it So really, if I'm to say that anything I walked away from the military with is number one, they taught me I wasn't stupid Number two, I developed a skill of public speaking, which I had always been very shy prior to that However, what I didn't get, and I guess I just kept those blinders so tight around my eyes, was that I was in an institution that killed people And destroyed the earth that all I ever wanted to do was to photograph You know, you can't think like that when you're in the belly of the beast because you'll go start craving nuts Especially if you don't feel that you have another opportunity If you don't have that self-esteem for you to stand up and say you know what, I can't do this, I'm not a killer That's not what I joined in military for So it's really hard in that process of reclaiming who you are as a human being when you realize that you did participate in mass murder That no, I didn't push the buttons or pull the trigger, but I was still there, I participated I supported it, I cheered when the jets took off I didn't find out until two years ago that my mother never wanted me to join the military And I'd have to say that I was very shocked and kind of angry and then she felt bad and I didn't want her to feel bad You know, because really I guess in a way in order for me to be here and to be doing this work I have to really know the beast and I do know the beast, I know its seduction I know what it is and by being that intimate with it then perhaps I know how best or I can learn how best to surgically have it removed Because if we are to continue to be on this planet we have to stop war We have to find a better way we are facing extinction as human beings The United States military has enough nuclear weapons in its arsenal and on hair trigger alert that we could annihilate everything on this planet 33 times Don't you think once is enough? But the only reason that we have that stockpile is because there's a lot of money to be made with those weapons And the generals retire and they get into the weapons industry And it becomes a self perpetuating economic necessity So when Jim Bakers talking about jobs during the first Gulf War that the war was all about jobs It wasn't our jobs, it wasn't Joe Schmo down at Windixie or at the diner or with the appliance store that they started with their daddy It has nothing to do with it, it's their jobs The jobs of the people who are pushing the policy make the profit from the war that they're pushing Those are the jobs that they're talking about The jobs of the junior officers getting promoted because you only get promoted when there's war That's when everybody really gets promoted That's why all of this insanity going on in Iraq, they're putting these kids out into combat so that they can get a combat infantry badge That's evil [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] I don't think so For one, let me talk about the Republican thing I only became a Republican because that's what everybody else did I didn't know what the difference was, I was not a very informed human being The only thing that looked good to me was that any time the Republicans were in power, we got pay raises So I guess, you know, I was just looking at it very superficially I didn't know the depth and the breadth of it, of any of the political structure at all So I was just kind of going along with everybody else, that's just what you were My parents didn't talk about it, I thought they were Republican My dad and I always butted heads, now I kind of understand why You know, I guess I've always been a lefty because I've always, I believed in what Jesus taught and talked about Compassion, forgiveness, kindness, working together You helped the poor, you don't shoot 'em, you don't bomb 'em, and then take their resources and turn their wives into your prostitutes I don't agree with that at all I believe what the military told me, I believe that they were taking care of us, they took care of us We were the people in the white hats, we were always the good, caring, compassionate, we do the right thing None of us wanted to go to war, well, that's true, but that's not the truth of the institution As I have found over the last 14 years That it's very much hidden as to what it is, or nobody would join the military I mean, what's the difference between joining the military now and joining the mafia? Nothing, we're doing the same thing So the Republican thing, that was just because I didn't know any better I did the best I could with the information I had available to me at that time And I don't, yeah, I knew that I was different, lesbian, or I don't even know that I really liked that label either All I know is I love women You know, I've been with plenty of men, I was married for seven years I loved my ex-husband, what is that? I just wanted to be true to who I was, and I should be able to love who I fall in love with You know, so I know I couldn't be really aware of that in the military because we witch hunted homosexuals See, one of the foundations that they use in the discipline of the military is homophobia, misogyny, racism, classism They use all the fear of the isms to be labeled isms Oh, I can't, I'm not a faggot, I'm not a sissy, I'm not a wimp That's very powerful mind games that they use in order to indoctrinate and to keep you fear-based from being labeled any of those There's plenty of other labels, but those are the most powerful People will kill in order not to be labeled a coward, and they know this People will do anything to keep from being labeled a homosexual It's a mind game, the psychological bibble babble that they use, and the main piercing valve is fear That's discipline, intimidation, power over, domination, all of that goes into that little bucket So they had you there, as you put it in the belly of the beast for 12 years, but somehow they failed to mold you properly What went wrong with you? That's a good question What went wrong? Well, I guess a few things went wrong I stood up when things were not correct, and I spoke out, and I got people fired And that didn't go over very well because they were my superiors That was kind of a little crack in the mold somewhere Jeez, that was just, you know, they didn't do that well with me, or so they would think Actually, I thought that they did very well with me because that's all part of the integrity And the professionalism that you do what's right, that you do what's moral It's also my upbringing as well You play by the rules, you don't cheat, you don't lie, you don't steal So those were little cracks, and another little crack was that because I was a supervisor And because one of my coworkers walked up to me in front of all the rest of my crew And told me she was gay By law, I had to turn her into the office of special investigations, the OSI She would be charged, could serve jail time and/or discharged with a less than honorable discharge And what I did, I had 30-day time period, and I did everything that I could And I went to a leadership training, I did NCO training back in Mississippi And I even talked to some of the other higher NCOs and said, "Is there a way that I can get out of this?" And they said, "No, you do realize that if you don't turn her in, you will be arrested and discharged from the military as well" So on the very last day that I had, I went into the office of the OSI And actually the actual people that I had been talking to about cross-training and getting into that career field When I sat down, she said, "I'm really glad that you came in, Sergeant, because here's your arrest warrant" "We were going to come get you tomorrow" And I told her everything, and she said, "Gee, you know, I really hope that this doesn't change your mind about joining us" And I said, "You can shove it up your ass" And by this time I was sobbing, I said, "You've just ruined two human beings' lives for absolutely nothing" They did absolutely nothing wrong, and I walked out And the other big crack was the war When I realized what kind of bombing we were doing, and all of that, I just became so angry at all of it It's just a waste of money, a waste of lives, a waste to the environment, we solved absolutely nothing So how did you then end up actually getting out of the military, or leaving? Did you just take a dishonorable discharge, or did you go in and say, "I'm a lesbian, you have to kick me out" I didn't touch that L-word for many years, no I didn't do any of that Actually, when I came home from the military, and people pretty much knew that I felt that it was stupid And I was pretty much told to shut up, get over, it wasn't really a big deal, it wasn't really a real war, you know So I didn't know really what else to do at that point, I re-enlisted for six more years I volunteered for two things, one was a counter-terrorism evaluation team, basic exercise evaluation team We did a lot of counter-terrorism stuff, and the honor guard, I was a flight commander And right around that time, they were closing bases, and they were encouraging people to get out of the military It wasn't Clinton, it was Bush, it all started under his watch I get tired of Clinton being blamed for everything, although I'm not much of a big supporter anymore But anyway, that started under Bush And what they were doing was they were just dangling carrots, well we'll give you $26,000 or whatever to leave the military And I was at a point in my life where I was pushing papers, I wasn't doing anything constructive for anything, for anyone It was just a job, an existence, and I wanted something richer I wanted life, I didn't want to die, although I did try to commit suicide with a .357 This was just not what I wanted to do with my life, all I wanted to do was be a photographer for National Geographic And I was so far away from doing that I was miserable, I was sobbing on my way into work in the morning, so it was just I can't do this anymore It's killing me, it's tearing my soul into shreds, so I started looking at this concept of taking the money and leaving the military I got $26,000, and I picked my birthday because I wanted it to be special, because I'm changing my life, and I left Now, for many years, I didn't realize it was really anything wrong with me, you know, the PTSD, I didn't really understand what that was I didn't think it was such a big deal to sleep with a loaded .357 under my pillow for five years, or to carry it with me whenever I traveled Or that I didn't feel safe enough and I went and bought a 9mm on top of that I didn't think that there was anything wrong when I heard what I thought was gunfire one morning, my parents had gone to work and throw open the door, and it was a roofer, and I got my loaded .357 with the hammer cocked I didn't think nothing of that I didn't think nothing of the fact that even when my friend came with me after I left the military, we drove, I was stationed in Arizona I never said a word, the entire three-day trip My hands were glued to the steering wheel, and I drove like a bat out of hell That's just part of all of this stuff that I deal with now I'm better with the driving stuff, although I still tend to, I've got to get there, it's just a part of needing to get to safety needing to be in control of my environment because I wasn't in control of anything They picked me up on January 10th and put me on a plane with three duffel bags and M16 and 200 rounds of ammunition My destination was in a sealed envelope, marked top secret So I didn't even know where I was going You know, this was right at the end of the breakdown of the talks The war started on the 17th, I got into country and Saudi Arabia a day and a half before the war started It's kind of like everybody else knew that there was something up, but I didn't Not until I got with my partner And then when we split two years ago, I went into therapy and I realized that I have post-traumatic stress disorder and depression and all this other stuff But that's okay, it's mild, I'm not, my heart just aches for these people And we don't even talk about the Iraqi people or the Afghani people or the orphans But the soldiers come in home You know, we've got Vietnam veterans that are still committing suicide for God's sakes That's a rough story to listen to And I know that that's only a pale reflection of how hard it is to live it I think you're closer to a place of health now That while you've been doing your learning, while you've been doing your changing, you've been healing, too In '94, you had your dream that led you to choose the name Chante Woof What are other parts of your healing? I got into energy work, I got into stones I got into things that Mother Earth provides naturally Besides love and beauty I got into Reiki, I got Reiki My ex-partner was a massage therapist, so we did a lot of that And trying to keep myself in a place of love and to be around people that I respect And whom I've learned an awful lot from And that's the people in the peace community, activists, veterans for peace I got introduced to veterans for peace at my ticker tape parade after the war There's this small band of bearded, graying men in their ragtag uniforms with a big black and white banner that said "veterans for peace" And I was just... I was stunned It was like, "Well, yeah, yeah!" Isn't that really what we want? Is we're veterans to preserve peace? We don't want war Although I didn't join really until probably around the time of the dream And I wasn't interested in going to any meetings because quite honestly I'd had enough experience with military men When you're assaulted, you just kind of don't want to put yourself in that situation And you kind of tend to stay away from people that are like that So I just didn't go there I have a feeling that listeners may not know what you mean by being assaulted because you didn't actually spell that out So part of your experience with the military was being assaulted by superiors Proposition actually was what that particular incident was And not by my superiors necessarily like my commanding officer Although the situation did involve him and my first sergeant The gentleman who propositioned me was a four-striped NCO And myself just being right out of basic, I had nothing, I was the dirt, I was the bottom of the barrel I was propositioned in a room within a room I was called out of formal formation to be in a room within a room with the doors closed And it's only myself and this sergeant And he's proceeding to invite me for a three-day weekend during 4th of July Lots of beer and food and guess who was going to be the entertainment So there was no one around, no one would have heard me scream And I mean he sat back in his chair and he rearranged his crotch And he put his feet up on the desk So he knew very well what this psychological play was going So that was that incident, I was attacked physically by a security policeman Who was in martial arts class training with me And he stalked me after that incident actually I'm really glad I took martial arts because I did get him off of me But I really enjoyed the idea of it just being a defense only You were mentioning that one of the reasons you weren't led to participate right away in veterans for peace meetings Is because you really don't want to be around military men and I guess that's our military men Yeah, you know some old navy guy when I was working at the bait and tackle shop tried to rape me And that was my first experience with military men outside of my family And there was an incident that happened to me after I left the military And he was a military man too So I was all fine with veterans for peace and what they were doing to abolish war and everything But yeah, you're right, I just didn't want to be around the military men That's the whole point of the military, it's not a jobs program folks You're taught to flip and kill people for God's sakes And some of these people do kill people and they kill people and they kill people And they kill people, that's what the military is, period It's not about providing anybody with a job It's not about providing anybody with equality, that's bullshit You're trained to kill and win wars, period And that changes you, and it's changed me And it's an anger that burns inside of me because I know I can kill people I came close to it I had a staff sergeant by the shirt, my hand right in his face My hand was ready to go This was in Dover Air Force Base, Delaware This was the place where I slept for two days in the airplane hangar prior to my being shipped out That's how fear touches people, you get pushed to this point Anyway, he was taking apart my M16 But I knew in the core of my belly, if I released and I hit him I would not have stopped until I killed him I knew that because he touched that piece of metal that might save my life And actually the young Marines, two young Marines that we were playing cards They did think I was going to kill him When I threw him away and he picked himself up off the floor, I never saw him again One of the young Marines said he just kind of etched back over to where I was sitting Grabbed my gun and he said, "I'll put it back together for you ma'am" And the other one said, "I thought you were going to kill him" There's just some things that you know what you're capable of And you know, I didn't want to learn to be that way I just wanted to take pictures My father could use a little mercy now The fruits of his labor falling right slowly on the ground His work is almost over, he won't be long, he won't be around I love my father, he could use some mercy now My brother could use a little mercy now His turns are out of freedom, he's shackled to his fear and his doubt But pain that he lives in, it's almost more than living where they lie I love my brother, he could use some mercy now My church and my country could use a little mercy now 'Cause they sink into a poison pit, it's gonna take forever to climb We carry the weight of a faithful who follow them down I love my church and country, they could use some mercy now Every living thing could use a little mercy now Only the hand of grace can end the race Towards another mushroom cloud People in power, they'll do anything to keep their crown I love life and life itself, could use some mercy now I love my brother, he could use some mercy now I love my brother, he could use some mercy now I love my brother, he could use some mercy now We don't deserve it, but we need it anyhow We hang in the balance, dang, between hell and high low ground Every single one of us could use some mercy now Every single one of us could use some mercy now So, coming familiar with Veterans for Peace was part of your step towards healing Of the way it had been in the Valley of the Beast, have there been other important parts to your healing? The most recent is a huge thing You know, for a number of years, I even tried getting into a major of photojournalism And that kind of fizzled out, you know Somalia happened in Rwanda And I was like, "God, I don't want to do that, that's not the kind of photography I wanted to do" But photography just kind of, I mean, it would surface but it just wasn't there It was just kind of too expensive or whatever excuse I made But last year, March of 2005, I was preparing to go to Fort Bragg To protest the second anniversary of our invasion of an unarmed country What I found, I thought was important, is that often Veterans stories aren't told Nobody wants to hear it, it's hard stuff So I went ahead, I had a credit card Let's go spend a little money $850 later, I get a digital video camera You know, I wanted to interview these soldiers who come out of Iraq and who are saying, "You know, this is nuts" And nobody wants to listen to us I wanted their stories Hey, I'm in the middle of history that's being completely purposefully ignored, censored more correctly Well, we have a fascist government And then I found myself at the National Camera Exchange, the next thing I knew, I'm holding a digital Nikon camera So before I knew it, I was getting stuff published I was doing both pictures, I was doing pretty pictures, and I was doing protest pictures And my protest pictures were getting published, and my pretty pictures Well, you know what, I happened upon, and I honestly believe that we have spiritual guiding forces Guarding angels or whatever, I feel that there's some presence there that we can't see Because the next thing I remember, I was in a store, wasting some time while I was going to meet a woman who was interviewing me And what did I find in my hands, a National Geographic magazine? And guess what, they were advertising a photography contest I have this incredible picture of a bald eagle, very close, very personal It's looking right at you, I mean it's an incredible picture Well, I'm one of ten honorable mention winners with a National Geographic Photography Contest That showed me in many ways, I mean some of the pictures that I've gotten from the protest are really incredible They show the power and commitment of caring human beings They show the character and compassion of what I have always believed American citizens to be And it showed to me that it didn't die in me, it just needed to go away for a little bit It needed to heal itself So photography has come back into my life, and more recently, for the first time in my life, I walked out of my day job I quit right on the spot Now, I am partnered with a gentleman who's been in the water business Purification water, reverse osmosis, for the last 25 years I'm learning about business, manufacturing, patents I'm learning about water I'm learning about having control of my own destiny And for the first time when I leave a customer's home I walk away and I grin because, you know what, they've got clean water to drink And it means a great deal to me that I have done something constructive for somebody's health And that's part of the healing, that's all part of the healing I haven't asked you anything specifically about your spirituality, both before you went in the military and currently Can you say anything about that, what inspired you back then, what inspires you now? Well, I grew up Baptist Methodist by junior high school I found myself at the local fair, and I found myself holding the Bible But it was a new age Bible, putting the words of Jesus in a more easier way, I guess, of reading it It wasn't a Bible Bible And I started to read that, and I was like, "Yeah, yeah, I like what this guy has to say about things" Even though I grew up Baptist Methodist as a kid, I didn't pay attention I wanted to get to the meat and potatoes How do we treat each other? How do we respect each other? How do we care and nurture and love this incredible planet? Well, we have an incredible planet we live on It's an amazing place There's a lot to really see, and to me, that's spiritual When I climbed up in a tree when I was a kid, I felt I was hugging the tree We were helping each other out To me, that was spiritual So after my short little revival experience there And going to the church, and really I started to participate heavy And I got really turned off, because, you know what? I'd sit there at the sermon and I'd look around There were no black people in there, there were no Hispanics, there weren't any poor people in here We were all rich, or not rich, but well, rich to the poor people But we were all well-closed, white people When they would have their meetings, I was so disgusted by the conversation They were just making fun of other people It was like, that's not what I wanted to participate in What happened afterwards, I ended up in North Carolina, I lived on top of a mountain In the Smoky Mountains, and I found that spiritual I mean, holy cow What an incredible place, we'd sleep out under the stars at night Wake up in the morning and watch the pink clouds just hang in the valley As if God had just laid down a veil I kept all of that kind of up until I joined the military And spiritual became partying Spiritual became whiskey and vodka and gin Tasca hopping, bar hopping It just kind of went away Because that's what you did in the service You have to numb yourself to some extent But I did take long walks the last two years that I was in Spain I had separated from my husband, we didn't live on the base We lived off the base, and I'm really glad we did that But I would take long walks along the countryside And I found that that was pretty spiritual So I guess I had my moments, but not in a direction Or as much of an intensity as I am experiencing Since I've really kind of been up here in the cities Because my ex-partner and I Well, she was attending Quaker Meeting in Florida So I got introduced to the Quakers in Florida And actually, it was Quakers who were very instrumental in launching my activism Little do they know, I had seen Kathy Kelly in Florida And it was the first time that I really stood up and started to speak about the war And what I had been reading and that we needed to stop it And the next thing I knew, I was holding a sign saying not for Clinton to bomb You know, we don't just create new bombs just to go test them out on people And that's what they were talking about Well, we have these new bombs, we've devised since the last Gulf War So yeah, we got smarter bombs now They got a master's degree, I guess, in death and destruction So here I am, for the first time in my life, standing outside of MacDill Air Force Base Norman Swartzkoff sold Hangout And I've never done that in my life, I've never protested Y'all got courage, it takes a lot for you to stand out there Let me tell you, and I try to tell people, I do appreciate Anytime anyone has taken a stand, whether it's putting a button on your shirt Or a bumper sticker on your car or a sign out in your yard or your window Or you talk to somebody in a shopping area or at the grocery store By God, that takes courage for you to say something I thank you, all of you, veterans included I really appreciate you doing that and having the courage to do that Because you laid the bricks for the rest of us to follow You put a light at the end of that dark tunnel that we're wallowing in I admire the Quakers, it's a great deal And I attend a Quaker meeting hero, although I haven't joined Because I still have quite a rough edge, I'm not quite Quakerly enough And I think it needs to be respected So that's kind of where I was, where I come through and what I'm looking at now Wow, that's quite a journey you've been through There's a lot of specifics that we don't have time to cover I know that you've been active starting back in 1998, but very active since 2001 And the attack on the Twin Towers There's so much, I'm sure you can teach us I want to thank you for your witness Thank you for having the courage to stand up and approach each new challenge And walk through it closer to the end of the tunnel Well, thank you I hope at some point that my family gets an opportunity to hear what I have to say Because I'm not sure whether or not they truly understand what's motivated me Especially after 9/11, actually some of my family won't even talk to me I don't know, maybe this is my perception, I think that everybody thinks I'm crazy Not all of us Well, because I was so adamant against what I knew we were going to do We were going to bomb the crap out of Afghanistan, and we have And there's nothing there Well, there's opium, and there's gas You know, these poor people have been in the middle of battle for years Same way with Iraq, for God's sakes How can we feel good about ourselves as human beings, but not only human beings But of this mythic ideal of an American citizen That we extend our loving arms to help the global community That's what I still want to have I hope that at some point my family realizes that's really all I've ever wanted Well, I hope they have a chance to tune into this program via the net And maybe they'll hear those words, thanks again Shanti Thank you very much for asking me [Music] People on the street now Faces alone and grim Souls are feeling heavy and Faith is growing thin Fears are getting stronger We feel them on the rise I hope last night's got some by the throat You can't see it in their eyes I said, oh, come on [Music] Everybody on the shoestrain Everybody on the road Everybody on the old jet plane Causing their fingers on shore Government men Spent his politics 'til they've got you in there Everybody trying to reach out to each other But they don't know where to begin I said, oh, come I can't tell the free world from the living hell I said, how come [Music] How come all I see The child of God and misery I said, how come [Music] The pistol now has profits We pull it some kind of law and king But pain is it only promise This so-called savior's gonna bring Love can be a liar And justice can be a thief And freedom can be an empty cup From which everybody wanna drink I said, how come I can't tell the free world from the living hell I said, how come [Music] How come All I see The child of God and misery I said, how come [Music] It's just man You're the man You're the man You're the man You're the man You're the man I don't understand ♪ ♪ ♪ It's just a man killing mine killing mine killing mine killing mine killing mine I don't understand ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ I said I'll come ♪ ♪ I'll come ♪ ♪ I said I'll come ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ You've been listening to an interview with Shanti Wolf of Veterans for Peace. You can hear this program again, or other programs via my website, NorthernSpiritRadio.org. And on that site you'll also find useful links related to these programs. Music featured on this program has included War by Edwin Star, Mercy Now by Mary Goshay, and How Come by Ray Lamontaine. The theme music for Spirit in Action is "I Have No Hands but Yours" by Carol Johnson. Thank you for listening. I welcome your comments and stories of those leading lives of spiritual fruit. You can email me at helpsmeat@usa.net. May you find deep roots to support you and grow steadily toward the light. This is Spirit in Action. ♪ I have no higher cause for you and peace to love and serve your neighbor ♪ ♪ Enjoying selflessness to love and serve your neighbor ♪ ♪ Enjoying selflessness ♪ ♪ ♪