Spirit in Action

Frances Ford & The War Plays Project

Frances Ford conceived of The War Plays Project, Inc in the period leading up to the US invasion of Iraq, a way to invite people to think of the too-little-thought-of aspects of war. She and the other folks with The War Plays Project have produced a series of short plays going beyond what the mainstream media is willing to consider.

Broadcast on:: 11 Nov 2007
Audio Format:: other

[music] Let us sing this song for the healing of the world That we may hear as one With every voice, with every song We will move this world along And our lives will feel the echo of our healing [music] Welcome to Spirit in Action. My name is Mark Helpsmeet. Each week, I'll be bringing you stories of people living lives of fruitful service, of peace, community, compassion, creative action, and progressive efforts. I'll be tracing the spiritual roots that support and nourish them in their service, hoping to inspire and encourage you to sync deep roots and produce sacred fruit in your own life. [music] We have another gem of the Midwest for today's Spirit in Action. Frances Ford has been doing theater all her life, and when the USA was gearing up to invade Iraq in 2002, she decided to turn her experience and talents in support of her faith, a faith that affirms that war is not the answer. She is the prime mover behind the War Plays Project, which has presented productions on the experience of veterans from a number of wars, Rachel Corey's life in the service of peace, and the affront to the lives of women that war can be. There's more to come, and Frances' battle with cancer has only strengthened her voice and resolve. I'm pleased to welcome Frances Ford of the War Plays Project to this Northern Spirit radio production called Spirit in Action. Fran, thanks so much for joining me for Spirit in Action. Oh, you're welcome, Mark. I think you're joining me from your home, aren't you? You're recovering from some operations? Yes, I was diagnosed with cancer on December 9th, and one thing led to another, mostly another. So, I've been in and out of the hospital, I have five operations, actually, but we've managed to keep the project, it's called the War Plays Project, going and producing, and that makes me very happy. You know, the tone in your voice, I would not say, was that of a person who was discouraged or beat down. I have a feeling that maybe the doctors are going to get more exhausted working with you than you with them. Well, I've had a lot of health, spiritual help from my friends meeting, from my Buddhist group, and I've been, you know, just very fortunate to have a lot of spiritual backing, also having the War Plays Project to work on, the play that we did right after, when I was ready to go, is Rachel Corrie, A Life for Others, the story of Rachel Corrie. The young American from Oregon, who got run over by an Israeli bulldozer, having that really sustained me, you know, sometimes your work sustained you. This is all volunteer stuff, but it really keeps me going, so we just did it, and now I'm back out, so here we are. What does the piece call, particularly, what's the name of it? Rachel Corrie, A Life for Others. According to the original play, after Rachel Corrie was killed, her parents, Cindy and Craig Corrie, gave all her journals and letters and emails to a British company to create a play. The Royal Court, because the story was not being covered in the United States. Many people in the United States don't even know this story. People came out of our play crying and going, "I never knew this happened. I had no idea why aren't we hearing about Palestine. Why aren't we hearing about the Israeli peacemakers?" So, we couldn't do the original play, which is called, "My Name is Rachel Corrie." We couldn't get the rights to it. We just wanted to do a stage reading, couldn't get the rights, but we felt it was very important to get her story out, and I was sustained by Sister Florence Steichen, who spent five years at the University of Bethlehem, and just now head of the Middle East now. There was a big variety of religious experiences working on this. So, I pulled together from the Internet everything that was publicly available, and with the help of Director Sally Childs, we created a three-character play with the little girl, the young Rachel, the narrator, and then the Rachel leading up toward death. The voice of the child has made it particularly moving. It starts with a young Rachel saying, "I'm here for other children. I'm here because I care." And we have a wonderful 12-year-old actress. So, they worked pretty well. You know, Mark, we got a lot of people thinking about Palestine and Israel that weren't thinking about it before, and that makes me very happy. It was worth getting out of the hospital for. There was one more resource that you should have come to me, because her aunt attends the Unitarian Universalist Church here in Eau Claire, and I did an interview with her and included some other pieces from the originals. So, I had the resources right here, next door in Eau Claire, if you just come over from the Twin Cities. I wish that I would love to come down there and perform the play. If anyone at the Unitarian Church, you know, I have some really good professional actors, and if they're free, and we can get some donations, we come down and do it. But that's great. Your aunt's right there. Gosh, it must be an amazing family. So, when did you originate this particular play? This play, the first performance was something like April of this year, like April 16th or something. So, I guess we must have originated starting in January, trying to find a way to get Rachel Corey's story out to as many people as we could get into churches or wherever we perform. We've only done three performances so far, but it's worth it. People come out just very moved and really thinking about an issue that's been hidden from our press. I mean, actually, really, you know, it's just not covered in the press. At one, we had some hecklers who, but it was very gentle. You know, people who were pretty much convinced we were anti-Semites, which is not what this is about, but it was very gentle. It wasn't a problem. So, I must have started working on it. Between operations, somewhere like in January. How far back does the War Plays Project go? I was trying to remember that for this interview. I think we started in 2000 or 2001. The reason I started it and then got a lot of wonderful people to work with me is that all my life I've been an actor, I've done a lot of teaching, some directing, some writing, and the war created such anguish in my life and split the communities up here in the Midwest so badly and has created such anguish in so many places. I'm trying to think, how can I use my skills to start a conversation, to get people thinking about war, to broaden our understanding of what's happening now. I picked three plays from three different wars, "Bury the Dead" by Erwin Shaw, and "Tigret the Gates" by Jazira Du, and "The Heart of America" by Naomi Klein. And we did them at three different places. It was good discussion leaders. And audiences, even the choir, the piece nicks that come to everything, and I'm part of that, even those people were blown away and really wanted to sit and talk and think about the issues presented. That was the start. Who are the other people who are involved with you when you refer to the war? Are you talking about Afghanistan or Iraq? So much stuff was happening, it seemed like all at once, but it was basically in response to Iraq. We were in Afghanistan, there were threats of Iraq, it was somewhere right in there that I started. And the other people involved, the entire Fukui family, from the Buddhist community, of which I'm now a member, Hank, the husband and Kathy, the mother are secretary and treasurer, and then both the children were involved as actors, helping move furniture, design programs. I mean, so was the Fukui family and me and then people from Twin City Quaker meeting, friends meeting, got involved with some funding and with basic stuff at the door and raising money and stuff. And then there were a wide variety of actors, many in the union who were willing to do this, a couple from the Guthrie who brought a lot of power to the work. So it's been a broad coalition, it changes from production to production. And how do you state these major theatrical productions where you have, you know, all the costume changes and you've got an orchestra sitting there, everything? We have no money, right? Our goal is to get people thinking. And so anything I've been putting on has been designed that we could move into your church or your classroom or your community center and put up some stool, see if we can get some decent lights, walk the actors around the space, check the sound. It's basically done with stools and if we can get some decent lights, it wants the welfare of microphones there. We may rent microphones next time because the young Rachel Corey is 12 years old and she could use some help with her voice. But generally everything I've written or that we've produced is just very, very simple, the stresses on the words and the ideas. You mentioned that this is not new to you, that this kind of activism piece community goes way back for you. How far back are we talking? Well, for a long time, I just, growing up, I just could not protest what the government was doing. My dad was hard-line, God bless America person. I remember finally my brother Steve got out of Vietnam, he was safe, he was home in one piece, and then I finally said, "You know what? Now I can protest." It was just in the form of marches and letters and things like that for a long time until I finally said to myself, "Why not put the two halves of my life together? The spiritual half that's passionately against the war and the talented half that's been a professional equity actor all her life. Why not put them both together at the service of the peace movement?" So it was timid for a long time mark because as a young person I didn't want to go against my dad. And it took a while until when my brother wasn't Vietnam, I just didn't think I could argue with the war. I mean, I had a brother there and it's not like this war at all, it was entirely different. And finally when my brother Steve got out, that was my first march. And did Steve join you? Oh no, he's pro-government, pro-bush, pro-war to this day. What was the religious spiritual focus at your home with your father? It was congregational and it was very much God likes us. There's a question about the other people. That's just my take on it. I remember wanting to bring people of color home from college and my mother not allowing it. It was very much, you know, Jesus looks like us, let everybody else deal with their own thing. It really was. And that's not all congregationalists. That's just the way I was brought up. Obviously it's not all because they're helping us produce Rachel Corey. But it was a tremendous disappointment in college to realize that Jesus didn't really love everyone. And so that's when I broke away from the congregational church and spent quite a while floating until I wandered into a Quaker meeting when my son, I sent us now 40 and he was about six months old when I wandered into the Quaker meeting in Manhattan, Long Island and just fell apart. I said, "Oh my God, I found, I had no idea there were people that did this." That was quite a revelation. What was it that captured you in that situation? Was it just that with a six-month-old child you needed some quiet? No. I needed a sense of my own value. When I walked in I'd been in there about 15 minutes and I realized that there was something of God. I don't know where this came from Mark. But there was something, there was a piece of God and everyone around me, which meant that I must have it. To this day, that's still like, "Wow, you know, we all have it. I can have it as much as anyone I meet, and anyone I meet can have it as much as me, a piece of God." That's one of the reasons I'm a Buddhist now, just because one step further in saying we're all Buddhists. We all have the ability to be phenomenal, compassionate, good, human beings. We were all blessed, we were all put here specially. And when I realized that, you know, I just never left. I just kept going back. Something must have got you there. Were you a political activist? What was it that led you to walk into? Because like our meetings aren't that easy to find. No, they aren't. It was a deep need. It was a rough marriage with a new baby. And actually, let's see, when my son was born, his father's Jewish, and there was a great, big, incredible, huge congregational church there in Manhattan, Long Island. So I asked them to Chris and my son, and we went and had him. Chris and I wanted the child blessed in some way. And next door, or just within a few blocks, was this meeting house. And you're right. You can't walk into them. I was so discouraged, because like if you wander around Europe or anywhere, you walk in churches and just sit there. You know, you can't do that. Quaker meeting house is locked. And I remember I drove up there the Saturday before to make a practice run. I was so nervous. And so I drove up and walked around. Everything is locked tight. And I looked at it and I said, "Okay, I'm coming back tomorrow." So I went back on the next first day, the next Sunday. And that was just a life-changing event. Were you at that time political or something activist? No, I was told that was wrong. I had to be, I was taught so strictly by my parents. It took a long time. Maybe there were other people like that hearing this program. And my parents were so strict, you had to believe that they believed, or you were just bad. And it took quite a while to say, "I can believe what I believe. I can find my own way towards the truth." I hope it doesn't take other people's thoughts. So as I say, my first peace demonstration, registering voters on the streets of Brooklyn, protesting in front of the House of Detention in Brooklyn, having silent worship on the streets of Brooklyn. All these things were slowly built. But when I came here to the Twin Cities, the peace community is so powerful and so big here. I just had no trouble being a part of it and starting participating more and more until it led to that need to use my talent to speak to the anguish, to the common anguish of all war, kind of a thing. You mentioned that you spent much of your career or part of your career as an equity actor. And when I hear the word "equity," I think it must be some kind of a banker actor like you act in such a way as to get people to invest in your something. So what is an equity actor? It's the acting union, actors' equity that started the beginning of the 1900s to get rights for things that other people might think are very ordinary, like perhaps the right to having a decent lunch if you're performing in summer stocks, not being starved or a clean bathroom, or a return trip home from Cincinnati, Ohio, if your producer bounces a check for the plane ticket, it's some very basic right. And equity saved my neck quite a few times, so I'm proud of being a member. Are actors as a whole? Do they lean one way or another, either religiously or politically? I would say a great percentage are at least 70% probably are against the war, lean more to the left or more Democratic, but every once in a while I get an actor like Ronald Reagan or someone who's gotten a lot of wealth and a lot of fame and all of a sudden, like, tilt and they're, you know, dull work Republicans protecting their money. But the most people I know, at least here in the Twin Cities, you know, most people I know lean towards the left are against the war kind of people. Do they have predilections in terms of religious or spiritual bent? No, we don't talk about it a lot. You know, that really is sort of private. And if you're working and you're touring a lot, I mean, people go to church and then they come to work. You don't ask where they went to church, you don't know, and people don't preach it. You've got to allow other people to have some privacy. I believe religion is a private thing, by the way. You're on the wrong show for that. Yeah, right. Hi, everybody. Yes, not too private now. But two of the national tours I did, the young leading men were born again Christians who explained to me carefully that God is a large white man in the sky, stressed their religion to everyone around them. But that generally is not the pattern, especially if you're touring the United States on a bus in a plane and you work closely together for seven or eight months at a time in strange cities, your religious practice is what yours is, you know, and you try and keep harmony within the group because you're going to be with them and live with them and work with them for seven or eight months at a time. What I'm trying to track here is what are the influences that got you to where you are. You say that perhaps 70% of the theater community perhaps lean democratic or liberal or something like that. The thing that pushed me over was being with Twin Cities Friends meeting, being part of the peace community and just this war, this whole, what's happened here, I'm trying to think, you're asking me the spiritual influences and I'm trying to be very specific. One thing that led up to this was twice, I was with the World War II vet and we met someone from another war and I listened to their conversation. One time it was with someone who'd fought in Vietnam. One time it was with a woman who just returned from Iraq and I listened to these conversations and I heard the commonality of young people going out and what is done to them. It was a common experience and I wanted to make that public and now more and more people are aware of what we do to the souls of these young people to get them to kill the way they're killing. More and more people are aware of this, you know, we have over a 90% kill rate now. One of your callers, maybe somebody's calling correct me, but I think like World War II, the kill rate was like under 30% and that wasn't good enough in Vietnam, it was like 60% and there's a way of conditioning young people so that they'll kill before they think. The kill rate means the number of the soldiers we send over who actually try and kill someone or kill someone. Yes, what percentage of time, if you see someone threatening you, will you kill them first and then ask questions later? And that's gone way up. They really wanted to get it up Vietnam, it wasn't enough. They really wanted to get and the conditioning is very harsh. Now basic training is basic, it's a kind of torture, you know, deprivation and torture. And so the rate at which a young person is willing to kill someone else right away without questioning or thinking or looking at their humanity. In other words, coming out, you know, this is what all my research was for these things I wrote, but coming out of World War II, you heard these stories about Christmases and the Germans in one trench started at Christmas Carol in German and then the Americans slowly joined in and there was no shooting all night. We heard these stories coming out of World War II of people realizing the glimpse of humanity in those other soldiers from the other side. And we've tried to negate the humanity of the others. You know, towel heads, I don't know all the nicknames, I hate to learn them, but geeks, all the nicknames for Vietnamese shoot first asked later kind of thing, you know. And so becoming more and more aware of this, I wanted to somehow help the general public, anybody who will listen to our plays, anybody you'll see our DVDs, to be aware of how everyone is dehumanized by this experience. You mentioned DVDs, does this mean that you recorded these performances and people can buy them, rent them, borrow them? Yeah, I didn't even mention this. After the first play I wrote, I was sitting in a coffee house with a skilled video creator and a returning Persian golf set and we're talking, what could we do? We wanted to create something that could be taken into high school, taken into community centers or peace groups, played, lead to discussion, something about Minnesota vets. So we created vet speak, it took like two years, because of course we had no money, but it turned out great. It's a set of two DVDs called vet speak and it's the experiences of Minnesota veterans from World War II through the Persian golf, through Panama, Korea, a lot of Vietnam vets. We had conscientious objector, a partial conscientious objector, someone who was absolutely unapologetic for their service and proud of what they could shoot, except they're dying of Asian origin. It's pretty awful. Oh, this is funny. So we got these all together, these really great interviews, and we showed them to a high school teacher in my living room and the high school teacher said, "This is really boring." I mean, you're going to have kids leave in the room. You've got to do this for high school kids, and he made suggestions of how to keep it interesting for 16 and 17 year olds. So we went through and re-edited the whole thing, and these are available free by the way, Mark. I mean, we'd love donations, but if anyone listening to your program would like to have a tool to use to talk to young people, it's a kind of counter recruiting tool. Each DVD is under 50 minutes, and they can contact me, or you can tell them how to get in touch with me, but these are available. We sent copies out all over the country now. So if they wanted to contact you, do you want me just to post this on my website, or do we want to announce it right now? They can call my home. So what is your phone number? Okay, this is Francis Ford. You'd be calling me to get a copy of that speak, and the home phone number is 651-793-6437. 651-793-6437. We would love donations, but more than that, we got a small grant so that we can give copies away to peace groups or groups that are going to show it to students, use it to lead discussions, and we'd be happy to share it. Is there also an address or an email address where people could contact you if they want to get a hold of that DVD? Yes, Mark. F-F-O-R-D-2-55106@yahoo.com. Is it only the anti-warmer tilt that's included in these? No, that's why I tried to get a balance, but it's very hard to find people who want to share their story. It is very hard to find people who actually talk about what they saw and did, because it's so awful. I would have nights after these interviews when I come home and couldn't sleep and wish I could find a therapist, because what I had heard was so terrible. We tried to balance it. It was harder than I thought. It goes between conscientious objector to this soldier. He was the most unrepentant. He was proud of his service, and yet what he saw and was happening with the Agent Orange chewing up the inside of his body and trying to keep sane. It's one of the most moving interviews you'll ever see. It's phenomenal, but he's not a peacenick. He was the only way we could find balance. It was really hard to find balance, because people who are pro-war have sort of shut down inside, you know? If they've served and they're still pro-war, part of them is emotionally shut down. I mean, that's what I found. He got off the plane, looked at no one. Walked down the tarmac in the direction of nowhere. Followed the sun as it was setting. Glad to be done with all the bloodletting. There were no banners for the proud and the few. Just workers in airports that do what they do. Feelin' up the planes, unload the baths, along with the cops, all covered the flags. When Johnny came marching home. The town in his farm was a deadly place, so he looked for a job somewhere off base. In the city of pawn shops, hotels and bars, gas stations, strip clubs, highways and cars. He went to a dive, ordered a beer to turn the music up loud, so it's all that I hear. He tried to rewind, turn back the years, stop the explosions between my ears. When Johnny came marching home. When jobs were all shaped, beer was cheap. Besides, there was no other way could sleep. Still the screams and the guns wouldn't wake him at night. He was always on edge and ready to fight. When he closed his eyes, he would just see the face of a woman he killed in some faraway place. Omar and Ova, the way of her eye, and her final turn during the crime. When Johnny came marching home. [Music] After just a short time, his health fell apart, with an ink in the joints and a thumb and a harp. The doctor just told him it's all in his head, but he couldn't stop drinking or getting bed. And with no place to go, but the wrong way, it was a shock to his ears when he heard himself say. Over and over, to anyone within ring he missed him. Can you spare some change? When Johnny came marching home. [Music] I hope you all know that musician. If not, I'm pleased to introduce you to David Rovik's. David is a one-person whirlwind for peace, traveling, singing, and speaking tirelessly about what we're doing and what we should be doing instead. That song was "When Johnny came marching home" and it certainly touches on the kinds of wounds of the soul that our veterans often bring back from the war. You're listening to a Northern Spirit radio program called Spirit in Action. I'm your host, Mark Helpsmeet, and my guest today is Francis Ford. And we're speaking about an effort she founded several years ago called the War Plays Project. Back to my conversation with Francis. Is there a official organization around the War Plays Project? Is this a board? Is this a regular cast? Or is this just completely rotating through? We have a board of directors that's been quite supportive, and we have become incorporated, and we're a 501(c)(3) corporation now. There is a core of volunteers that I can count on. This is one of my main jobs, the War Plays Project. I call it my pro bono work, and I have a couple part-time jobs right now. But the point is other people are volunteering to help me, to help the project. So there is a board of directors, but then the talent changes. Whoever's going to do this or each project we might need different people or different talents. Like the one coming up that I'm working on now at War with Women, we're going to need three women under the age of 35. Very specific actresses we're going to have to audition for. What's at War with Women about? It's about the experience of women in the recent conflict, like from the Persian Gulf and in Iraq. As I interviewed and read, I kept trying to find real experiences of going to war, of handling a gun, of driving a truck, of being an air controller, a fixing airplane, whatever their real experiences were. But every time I talked to people or read, it came back to rape and sexual humiliation. So this is an x-rated play. It's about 35 or 40 minutes. I hope to do it in high schools, but I have to be very clear. It's as obscene as war is. And that's why the title has a double meaning at War with Women. Every conversation would come back to trying not to get raped or trying to get through it and not be a piece of trash. By the way, if any of your listeners have served and would like to share their experiences, they can call me at that phone number. I need to talk to more women veterans. I have an interview right after I hang up with you with another vet. I'd love to find out more, but from what I found out and the reading, I guess you've heard the story about the women who are dying of dehydration in Iraq. Because they won't drink any water after about four in the afternoon. Because they can't go to the little treat at night or they'll get raped. And so they die instead. I mean, stuff like this is happening to our young women who go over there, young mothers, or just like anybody looking for a job, looking for a career, looking for income. The abuse rate is really, really high. You're listening to a spirit and action interview with Frances Ford. She is a founder of the War Play's Project, which has been producing pieces about war. Not just the current war, but going all the way back at least to World War II and maybe before she's active in the Twin Cities area. And she's been Quaker and Buddhist, both. So, Fran, you mentioned that back when you were being raised, you had objections to the Vietnam War, but you didn't come out and oppose it because your brother was there. It was after he got back and because your father's pressure was for you not to oppose it. Do you find that happening with people now, too? Boy, is that a good question, Mark? Well, there must be some reason that the American people are still allowing us to go to this war. They're allowing Congress in the Senate to do what it's doing. There must be some reason. And I think, well, the first reason is that there's no draft. It's just other people's kids who are going. I mean, it's finally come home to Minnesota. I don't know about Wisconsin, but finally our men and women in the National Guard have come home. And we're seeing what they've been through and what we can do to help them. And they were there longer, 739 days, I think, longer than anybody else has served. So, finally in Minnesota, it's coming home to us. But why aren't people involved? Why has it not terrified and bothered people? You're drawing a parallel between my timidity in protesting the Vietnam War due to my upbringing and what's happening today. And I wish I could answer what's happening today. I live in a neighborhood that's becoming increasingly impoverished because jobs have been sent out of the Twin Cities. If people have jobs, they're being asked to work overtime or they won't keep their job. You look around the cars, the condition of the houses, the looking people's eyes, it's getting rougher and rougher. And I think because the economy isn't such a bad shape that a lot of people do not have time. They don't have the energy to go out and protest and do stuff. I'm on social security, I can work part-time, you know, and stay afloat with my part-time jobs. And so I have the energy. But you see people just cling into their jobs. Like the man downstairs in my house gets up at five, gets to work by six, comes home by about four or five. He's totally drained. He doesn't have time. Why are we allowing this war to go on? I would say understood it more. I'm afraid I probably see it differently. I see it as a question of priorities and priorities usually come from what we're taught in life. I think that kids have cars in a way that they didn't when I was growing up and you know their own personal television and stuff. There's considerably more resources and I think that we're prioritizing different things than we used to. I think most was considered ourselves having an abundance and so we put more of ourselves into community participation, activism if that was your bent. So I probably see it differently than just a question of affluence or resources. I think that we're more into our things and I think that probably increases the support for war. I couldn't agree with you more. I do see that and I'm frightened for the people who live for their things because we're all going to have fewer toys. What is it? Every family now owns $139,000 or something. The national debt is huge and the environment is changing just the cost of getting food to us is going up. Everything is going to change and I feel so sorry for the people who as you said feel like they can't live without a car and all the CDs and DVDs and clothes and stuff they want. I sort of remove myself from that thinking but you're absolutely right. Is that decision on your part? Is that a political reason? Is it a spiritual decision that you've made? Why did you remove yourself from the pursuit of wealth I guess? I suppose it's spiritual but yeah I guess the spirit came first realizing what I didn't need. I have an old car. I rent part of my house. I use as little energy as possible. Just realizing the things that I didn't need. Yes it comes from a deep wish to share the planet with others like my vegetarianism. Not a perfect but trying to be a good vegetarian for about 38 years or so. Yes I have a deep wish to share the planet with others now and with grandchildren and to preserve something and so little by little simpler choices are made when I realize what I don't need. Tell me some more about what actually happens with the workplace project. Do you talk about having discussion section? I mean normally when people go to see a play or movie they don't expect to be engaged by discussion. How do you structure these? Every evening in the program or afternoon or wherever we do it in the program is clear that there will be a discussion afterwards. None of these except the very first readings of other people's plays are two and a half hours long. It's always like the equivalent of one act an hour 20 minutes an hour so this time. We try and get good discussion leaders. People who can talk if no one's asking questions. What I find interesting Mark if I perform letters to letters from letters never written at Metro State University. The conversation is going to be entirely different than if we perform it at the University of Minnesota and in English writing class when they start looking at the structure and then get into the guts of these war experiences. Or we performed it in a coffee shop and the whole thing ended up being about the military industrial complex. Every group is like it's like a kaleidoscopic thing. We allow them to find their level and listen to what they want to discuss. So we lead and then allow them to work on their issues with us. Does that make sense? Sure. Could you give me an example of something that might be included one of your plays and the kind of reaction it got? If you can hold on I'm going to look up I think from Rachel Corey you know people walked out of Rachel Corey a life for others saying I didn't know this. I didn't know this stuff was happening like this letter of Rachel Corey's. Now the Israeli army is actually dug up the road to Gaza and both of the major checkpoints are closed. This means that Palestinians who want to go and register for their next quarter university can't. People can't get to their jobs and those who are trapped on the other side can't get home. And internationals who have a meeting tomorrow in the West Bank won't make it. We could probably make it though if we made serious use of our international white person privilege. But that would also mean some risk of arrest and deportation even though none of us has done anything illegal. And she goes on talking to her parents know that I have a lot of very nice Palestinians looking after me. I have a small flu bug and got some very nice lemony drinks to cure me. Also the woman who keeps the key for the well where we still sleep keeps asking me about you. She doesn't speak a bit of English but she asks about my mom pretty frequently wants to make sure I'm calling you. Love to you and Dad and Sarah and Chris and everybody. Letters like this there was so much in it the humanity of the Palestinians you notice keeps the key for the well. Every well has to be guarded because the Israelis are trying to deprive people in rough of water. Some things like this really really affected the audience and they also affected our leading lady. I had met Mary Lynn Menicki when I taught at Concordia University, asked her to audition and she got the part. And she played it twice and she was so moved by what she saw that she and her sister went to Israel in Palestine this summer. She really saw what's happening and really met some of the Israelis. I don't want to paint a one-sided picture. Some of the Israeli peace people too. And got in touch with the humanity of the Palestinians and trying to keep their dignity and their lives together through the checkpoints which are pretty awful. And so Mary Lynn has helped lead the discussion now. It's pretty moving. I'm so happy we touched her life and people were crying at the end of the last performance. This is being done in our name and at least we can let people think about it. Americans are compassionate, good, caring. We know they're extremely generous people. And if I can just get these words out and help people to understand what's being done with their tax money and also in my play there's a letter from one of the soldiers in the peace movement. And I'm really happy that we found that and that we can use it because we got to recognize the humanity on both sides of what's happening there. So it made a difference to quite a few people. I hope what I read gave you a flavor of her writing. In fact, I'm wondering about the experience you mentioned, maybe the first reading of Rachel Correa, "Life for Others." You said some people walked out and you mentioned another time some people with kind of gentle heckling. But describe those experiences in detail. What were they saying? You're just reading what Rachel wrote back from her there. Why are they heckling? I wish I could remember, but it was several people who accused us of anti-Semitism. As you know, here in America we confuse people who disagree with the government of Israel with anti-Semites. It's two different things. And our discussion leaders, Karen Redleaf and Sister Foreign Steichen were very clear, non-defensive. This was at St. John of Arc Church in Minneapolis and then the discussion sort of went on at our last performance at the Congregational United Church of Christ Church in St. Paul. Afterward in the discussion they stood up and said, "We never knew this. Why don't we hear about this? Why don't we hear these stories?" And I was glad they asked that question. I know it made a difference to people. I know that people went out saying, "Why didn't I know? How can I give? How can I find out more?" So that made me very happy. Have you had any first-hand experiences? You mentioned your leading lady went over to the Middle East. Have you been able to be over there? No, my first-hand stuff came in two ways. First of all, as I did research for the first play, but it isn't really a play. Theater for Voices that I created called Letters to Letters from Letters Never Written. That first one, as I began to read and finally people came forward and told me real experiences or shared letters, I began to get my own deeper understanding of what war does to people. But my biggest spiritual challenge for me was interviewing all the veterans and conscientious objectors for the two DVD set that speak to try and do my Barbara Walters invitation. You have just a nice, steady interview and a lot of people to talk about what had happened to them, to share their reality of their experiences, to hear these stories about the starvation project, about the effects of Agent Orange, about what it's like to be a woman sexually harassed in the Persian Gulf. As I said earlier, I would come home from these just shaken and have to spend a lot of time trying to get my spiritual strength back and start processing what I'd heard. So it's been a gradual thing, a gradual, and quite often I have to go and do something completely silly, I mean really quite often, just get totally away from the war or I think I'll go and say, you know, but I've tried to allow it affect my spiritual life and my outreach as much as possible. Is this the kind of thing you would have been hard put to do if you were doing it while you were employed? I think you said it Concordia or, you know, you'll get fired if you speak out on this kind of thing. No, I did however teach at an assembly of God University. And your readers might get a kick out of this. Here I am at a Christian university, very Christian. I mean they don't allow gay people anywhere near the place. They're, you know, but I'm teaching acting, which is fine. But in the parking lot, I'm the only one with anti-war bumper stickers. There are no bumper stickers in the whole parking lot. My car would stick out like crazy, you know, who would Christ bomb or whatever it is I had on the back of the car at that time. And I was very aware that my spiritual values had taken me to a different level. You know, I mean, when I was a kid I was taught that Jesus loved everybody and we don't kill. And that was really basic to what I learned. And yet here I was in a Christian university and everybody, you know, I couldn't talk about the war. I couldn't talk about any politics. There was just this feeling of support really for what the government was doing. And it scared me. But boy did my car, the dozen cars. I've seen you in the markets, I've seen you in the streets, and at your political conventions. Talking of your crusade, talking of your nation, and other things too terrible to mention. And you proclaim your Christianity, you proclaim your love of God, you talk of apple pie and mine. I've just got one question, and I want an answer, tell me, who would Jesus bomb? May Jesus would bomb the Syrians, 'cause they're not Jews like him. Maybe Jesus would bomb the Afghans on some kind of vengeful whim. Maybe Jesus would drive an M1 tank and he would shoot Saddam. Who would Jesus bomb? Yes, I've seen you on the TV, and on the battleships, I've seen you in the house on the hill. And I've heard you talking about making the world safer, and about all the men you have to kill. And you speak so glibly about your civilization, and how you have the moral higher ground. While halfway around the world, your explosive smashed the buildings. You could only hear the sound. But maybe Jesus would sell landmines and turn on his electric chair. Maybe Jesus would show no compassion for his enemies in the lands way over there. Maybe Jesus would have fallen the plains that killed the kids in Vietnam. Who would Jesus bomb? Yes, I hear you shout with confidence as you praise the Lord. And you talk about this God, you know so well. You talk of Armageddon, and your final victory, when all the evil forces go to hell. Well, you'd best hope you've chosen wisely on the right side of the Lord, and when you die, you're conscious it is clear. You'd best hope you're atom bombs are better than the sword, at the time when you're reckoning is here. Cause I don't think Jesus would send gunships in the Bethlehem, or chance to raise the towns of chimeries. I don't think Jesus would lend money to dictators, or drive those SUVs. I don't think Jesus would ever have dropped a single ounce of Nepal. Who would Jesus bomb? Who would Jesus bomb? Who would Jesus bomb? Another powerful anti-war song by peace-mongering troubadour, David Rovik's. You probably guessed that the song is called "Who Would Jesus Bomb?" You can track down that song, and other music David's produced via the website, DavidRovik's.com. And of course his link is on my northernspiritradio.org website. David was just in Madison in Minneapolis this past week, part of his constant life on the road, but my guest for today's spirit and action is Frances Ford and her War Plays Project, an effort to keep the reality of war in front of us, leading, we hope, to efforts for peace. Let's get back to Frances and her theatre work, including, as she just mentioned, her time teaching at a politically conservative Assembly of God College. Was this a real stretch or a problem to be teaching at an Assembly of God University? You're talking about yourself identifying either as a Quaker or as a Buddhist. But as a theatre person. So they didn't ask you your religious preference before they hired John? I did have to promise that I would never drink anywhere near my students or ever be seen that way, and I did have to affirm the fact that I shared Christian beliefs. At that time I wasn't a Buddhist, so I had no trouble affirming that. And then we had to be very careful with the scripts. I mean, you absolutely cannot. Well, you know, theatre deals with conflict. So I may get very angry at you for something and use bad language or, you know, threaten you or so. And so we had to be very careful in the scenes we picked. Very careful. But I met some wonderful kids. I had some really, really good students, so I was happy about that. Where is the War Plays Project going? I think you said you're going to be releasing the War on Women. You're going to be releasing that soon. Where are you going from there? Well, this is project to project and see how many volunteers I can get to help me. In the future what I would like to do, and I'm going to need help with it, is to perform at War with Women anywhere I can get groups of kids, and especially groups of young women. High schools or community centers or, you know, libraries anywhere I can get. As I said, it is obscene. It does have a lot of language in it. And then I think the next project, if we can do it, if we can pull this off, something like War in the Family, which would be a photographic exhibit, it would be curated, I hope, by one of the vets I worked with who's become a brilliant photographer. Well, two of them, brilliant photographers. It would be this huge movable set of stand-up screen exhibit with good text and pictures of military families. Because what's happening to the families when these people come home is people think, "Oh, he'll come home, you know, and you'll kiss the kids good night." And then, "Well, I'll be happy again." And it doesn't work like that. And families aren't prepared, and there's more abuse, I guess, in the families of Fort Braggs than anywhere else in the country, more spousal abuse. It's really rough if you've been trained to kill, and you've actually run over other people's children with your vehicles and killed other people's children, and then to come home and be what's called normal. And in my play, Letters to Letters from Letters Never Written, this Vietnam vet was in the jungle like on Thursday, came home and went back to teaching junior high on Monday. And they figured, "This is the norm, you know, come home and get back to work." And he's still, you know, he's half crazy in his head. It's very difficult to do. So anyway, that would be my dream to be able to perform our other plays wherever people need them, to perform at World with Women, with young women here at Wisconsin, wherever young women who may be considering going into the military, and to create this war in the family photo exhibit. I have a suggestion for you. Go ahead. I think the next time that you perform, you accept the love offering, and say split it 50% will go to help support, production of this, whatever, and the other half you dedicate specifically to returning vets to helping them. I think that will give the message that it's really about caring for the vets as opposed to some kind of anti-soldier. Yes, because we do care for them. But I think that's excellent, because we do. It's not anti-vet. So have you got some vets who are prominent active in the war plays project who are part of the ongoing energy for this? The woman who was in the Persian Gulf, Chante Wolf, who's quite a photographer, has become a brilliant public speaker. She's the main one, and then there are other people who have been active in vets for a piece that have been a big help, and I know I could call on. I want to come back to you now, Fran. We've been wandering all around. How are you doing? You're fighting some kind of cancer. Is the prognosis good? You're winning the battle already? Oh, thank you very much. Yes, the cancer is out. They got it all out. But the trick is you have to change the way you live to deal with the part of you that's gone. But slowly I'm learning. It was bladder cancer and slowly I'm learning to deal with new ways of doing things. It's not the easiest thing in the world. But I'm sustained by this and by my spiritual communities. As I say, I have no family here, so I reached out to the friends community, the Buddhist community, my friends, and we formed Team Ford, and they helped me when I got home from the hospital, and they sustained me spiritually, and it's been pretty incredible. Well, it sounds to me like they're returning the blessing that you continue to give to all of us. So I want to thank you for your work with the War Plays Project. I want to thank you with serving as a valuable witness of what a life of integrity is about, and I want to thank you for joining me here today. Oh, Mark, thank you very much. It's been a privilege. Goodbye. That was Frances Ford, my spirit and action guest today, speaking about the War Plays Project and her other work for Peace. The theme music for this program is Turning of the World, performed by Sarah Thompson. This spirit and action program is an effort of Northern Spirit Radio. You can listen to our programs and find links and information about us and our guests on our website, northernspiritradio.org. Thank you for listening. I am your host, Mark Helpsmeet, and I welcome your comments and stories of those leading lives of spiritual fruit. May you find deep roots to support you and grow steadily toward the light. This is Spirit in Action. ♪ With every voice, with every song ♪ ♪ We will move this world along ♪ ♪ With every voice, with every song ♪ ♪ We will move this world along ♪ ♪ And our lives will feel the echo of our healing ♪