Spirit in Action
Really, Really Free Market in Eau Claire
I have no hands but yours to tend my sheep. No handkerchief but yours to dry the eyes of those who weep. I have no arms but yours with which to hold. The ones grown weary from the struggle and weak from growing old. I have no hands but yours with which to see. To let my children know that I am out and out is everything. I have no way to feed the hungry souls. No clothes to give and make it the ragged and the morn. So be my heart, my hand, my tongue. Through you I will be done. The enders have I none to help untime. The tangled nuts and twisted chains, the strangle fearful minds. Welcome to Spirit in Action. My name is Mark Helpsmeet. Each week I'll be bringing you stories of people living lives of fruitful service, of peace, community, compassion, creative action and progressive efforts. I'll be tracing the spiritual roots that support and nourish them in their service. Above all, I'll seek out light, love and helping hands, being shared between our many neighbors on this planet, hoping to inspire and encourage you to sink deep roots and produce sacred fruit in your own life. About a month ago I picked up a little piece of paper. It said that there was a really, really free market happening in Owen Park in Eau Claire. I was intrigued and I said this looks like an outbreak of spirit, so I'm really pleased today to have on Spirit in Action three guests, Cassie and Dan Green and Cassie's sister Gina Cassius. They had a great idea to help enrich and transform Eau Claire, a place where people can share their abundance freely, their material wealth as well as the wealth of talent. Following the example of really, really free markets elsewhere, they are working to build generosity, community and meet needs in a way that cares for the environment and takes our world citizenship seriously. We're also joined by their nine month old child, Kauai. I want to welcome all three of you to Spirit in Action. Welcome Gina to Spirit in Action. Thank you Mark, it's nice to be here. And Cassie, it's nice to see you again. It's also nice to see you again. And Dan, thanks again for welcoming me to your home for Spirit in Action. Of course, we're getting late in the season. As a matter of fact, got pretty cold this last Friday and you didn't hold the really, really free market, but I don't think the cold was the issue. What kept you from getting out there? Cassie. The cold and the wind, it was very windy that day and we don't have tables or tents to put our stuff in. So with the wind, things blowing around and people not really out and about that day we figured not too many people would want to stand out there in the cold and look at free stuff. Unless what you had was overcoats, mittens and hats. I think that might have been exactly the thing. What kind of things have you been receiving? Have people been putting out for the really, really free market? Gina? Well, recently, actually, we just had a kid bring a box of old CDs and stuff like that in some video games, but we regularly have clothing and um, they also have multiple padlocks that don't have the combinations attached. We regularly have clothing, food, sometimes layout, some free food. Other times we'll have coffee or entertainment that we provide. Any big objects that get passed on for free? Cassie? Yes, we've had a futon mattress brought. We've had a microwave brought, which we took, we actually needed things like that. A lot of just everything is there. We had a kid who left a dollar once and that got taken right away, free dollar. So yeah, all kinds of things. Could one of you tell me what the rules for the free market are? How does it go? What are the basic rules and when you tell people, okay, they're interested in it for bringing things or taking things? What are the rules? Damn. Well, the only rule rule is that if you bring something, you have to stick around until the end, you have to take it back because we don't want to get stuck with anything. So let's imagine I'm walking by and I see this stuff there. Can I just go up and grab everything and take it away with me or is there some kind of lightness rule? Cassie? You could do that. We are kind of hoping that people would take what they need or even what they want and hoping that no one actually comes along and does that but we don't set any rules. Anybody is allowed to come and take anything they want. When did you start doing this and how long do you anticipate doing it since the weather is obviously getting colder now? Gina? I think it was in July that we had the first free market. It was probably the hottest day in July that we had it first. We actually started off in the back of Benny Ha Ha, it's in the back alley. That went all right. But we're going on to the end of October. Yeah, we'll probably start up again around May. Cassie? We're also hoping to do the winter farmers market and get involved with that. So they'll definitely be something and volume one about that. So keep your eyes open. I was going to ask you, how did you get word out about this? Is this word of mouth or did you have some method for infiltrating the consciousness here in Eau Claire? Damn? Well, a lot of it's word of mouth. The only real advertising medium we've taken advantage of so far is volume one. They've helped us out a lot when we get our stuff in on time. This is a kind of unusual community service you're providing. I think that there's maybe an evil side to the psyche of America and nothing is free. There really is no such thing as a free lunch. Is this free? Is this really you're not paying for it somehow when you do this? Gina? No, we actually try as hard as possible to make it absolutely and completely free for us and people that come and take. We've actually had people like try and offer us money because they don't feel right about taking it and we decline it. Yeah, this is I don't know. This is the exact opposite of what everyone's been taught to live like. I mean, you're not supposed to ask for things for free or anything like that. But yeah, we're definitely trying to do the exact opposite of what capitalist markets do. Have you been around? Have you done your share a comment down on different things that people do? Have you been aware? You got brothers and sisters who care about what's going to happen to you any year from now. Maybe I'll be there to shake your hand. Maybe I'll be there to share the land that they'll be giving away when we all live together. I'm talking about together now. Maybe I'll be there to shake your hand. Maybe I'll be there to share the land that they'll be giving away when we all live together. I'm talking about together now. Did you pay your dues? Did you read the notes? It's more than when the paper landed in your yard. Do you know their names? Can you play their games without losing track and coming down a bit too hard? Maybe I'll be there to shake your hand. Maybe I'll be there to share the land that they'll be giving away when we all live together. We're talking about together now. Maybe I'll be there to shake your hand. Maybe I'll be there to share the land that they'll be giving away when we all live together. I'm talking about together now. [Music] Maybe I'll be there to shake your hand. Maybe I'll be there to share the land that they'll be giving away when we all live together. I'm talking about together now. Maybe I'll be there to shake your hand. Maybe I'll be there to share the land that they'll be giving away when we all live together. Together together. Shake your hand. Maybe I'll be there to share the land. Maybe I'll be there to share the land. Maybe I'll be there to shake your hand. Maybe I'll be there to share the land that they'll be giving away when we all live together. We're talking about together now. Shake your hand. Maybe I'll be there to share the land that they'll be giving away when we all live together. We're talking about together now. Shake your hand. Maybe I'll be there to share the land. Maybe I'll be there to share the land that they'll be giving away when we all live together. [Music] And that song was by the Canadian group known as the Guess Who. It was called "Share the Land" and we're talking to some folks who are all about sharing. And they're the sponsors of the really, really free market here in Eau Claire. So where did this idea come from? Was it something just hatched in your minds or had you actually ever seen someone doing this before? Gina? No. I've never seen it happen. I've gone on websites and stuff of other really, really free markets around the country. I know there's some that are pretty vibrant and actually have regular entertainment and that people just know in that town that that's the place to take your stuff if you want to get rid of it. You know, instead of the dump. I actually learned of it from online and I was really, really excited about the idea and I actually wanted to start one right away but the place I was living at at the time wasn't exactly the most community-driven town and it was kind of a more of a retirement place than a lively community. And Cassie? Yeah, the free market. The ones that do go on, I heard are kind of like a circus and people can come and just, you know, get free stuff, watch people blow fire out of their mouths and things like that. We kind of want people to come out and make it like not so much a circus but just a place where people can get together and eat and enjoy each other's company and have free entertainment without having to set limits on whether you can afford it or not. And why do you do this? I mean, is it because you don't have enough money you want people to give you things or is it some more altruistic, more spiritual notion of why this kind of thing should happen? Cassie? There definitely is an idea behind it. We believe a lot in community and that's what we're trying to do is bring the community of Eau Claire out to show that we do care about each other and we want to make a stronger family in this place. Another thing is there's so much waste being thrown away these days that is usable and so we're also doing it for the environment and yeah, just the love of the people, I guess. I found a wheel that came from an wagon, lying in the field behind my neighbors barn, will I do that wheel and I've fixed where it hit, rudded and I've painted it bright colors, oh, you ought to see that wheel shine, isn't it? And what a little bit of glue can do, but you can fix with a nail or two, taking your time, getting it right, make sure everything fits real tight, little bit of wire, little bit of rope, wrap it up with a little bit of hope, oh, yeah. Well, I found a house in the middle of the city, it was anything but pretty, about to come tumbling down, well, I took that house and I've fixed where it hit, rudded and I've painted it bright colors, oh, the house became a home, isn't it? And what a little bit of glue can do, but you can fix with a nail or two, taking your time, getting it right, make sure everything fits real tight, little bit of wire, little bit of rope, wrap it up with a little bit of hope, oh, yeah. Resurrective, reconnective, elevated, yes, and recreated, it's the celebration of the rejuvenation, oh, I'm not saying anything can be said, just take a good look before you throw it away. You found my heart, it was torn and tethered, worn and shattered, about to come tumbling down, well, you took my heart, oh, you gave it what it needed, help me stop the bleeding, oh, you turned my world around, isn't it? And what a little bit of love can do, but you can fix with a kiss or two, taking your time, getting it right, make sure you help me real tight, you said the kindest words that I have never heard, oh, yeah. Resurrective, reconnective, elevated, yes, and recreated, it's the celebration of the rejuvenation, oh, I'm not saying anything can be said, just take a good look before you throw it away. Yes, I'm not saying anything can be said, just take a good look before you throw it away, away, away, away, away, away, away. That was The Wheel Song, it's by a group called The Billies, you're listening to a spirit in action interview with the sponsors of Eau Claire's really, really free market, Cassie and Dan Green and Gina Cassius. So is it your thought that we have enough for people, I mean, I think that the whole idea of things like Habitat for Humanity and so on are that we can pool our riches and then people will have enough and the gift keeps on going, have you ever seen the movie Pay It Forward, was that a part of your thinking, Gina? Yes, there's actually a set of seven reasons why to do a really, really free market along with the idea. One of it is that scarcity is just a myth. There's so much just lying around, I mean, people set out boxes behind their houses to be taken away for garbage and they're usually boxes of clothes or, you know, something that anybody else could use. We definitely believe that there's enough for everyone if we all just got it collected together to give away and that's exactly what we're trying to do with the market. You were talking about there's seven reasons that were given on website that's part of the free market movement. Can you tell me what those reasons are that they give? Sure, the first one is because there's enough for everyone, because sharing is more fulfilling than owning, because corporations would rather see landfills overflow than anyone get anything for free, because scarcity is a myth constructed to keep us at the mercy of the economy, because a sunny day outside is better than anything money can buy, because free trade is a contradiction of terms and no one should have to do without food, shelter, entertainment and community, because life should be a picnic, but it only will be if we make it happen. ♪♪ It's the economy, stupid. It's the economy, stupid. A victory sign, a mantra, an explanation, a reminder, a warning, an omen, onus, a threat. It's the economy, stupid. It's the economy, stupid. Farmers' wives bring eggs, chickens, whole milk, fresh butter to the local market, to the store, come in with groceries and leave with groceries and money. It's the economy, stupid. Small farmers raise crops for local markets of a dawn home at dusk, more in fallow than under the plow. Dark, loam, rich with earthworms, defying erosion, anchoring forest borders, home for game, shelter and shade. Now, virginity is no longer fashionable, even in our forests. We will harvest another crop of walnut, cherry, oak. If we only live, oh, another hundred years, man was the last piece of creation and has been playing catch-up ever since. Farming is a balance of muscle, daylight, conservation. Machinery becomes the muscle now, allowing us to work into the night. We plant our deaths, fence row, defense row, swallowing every bitter tram of expert advice until drunk with dreams of fortune, equity, leverage, growth. We grow what we cannot use, we purchase what we used to raise, we spend what we used to save, sell what we used to treasure, mock what we used to revere, hate what we used to love in the economy. I understand, I am not an astologist, I am a most pragmatic man. I look at what naturally occurs in the living world, and I see diversity, not specialization. I look at hometown banks, restaurants, hardware stores, where your name is your credit, and decisions are rendered by people who know you, where you are more than the five banks and the four airlines and the three newspaper chains, the two big boxes, the one and a half political parties, and the one rich tort is the economy. Stupid. And the standards that demand that every teacher teaches every student exactly the same thing. And like these students, I have to ask why, why is the economy stupid? Now those educated, appraised students ride their buses from their consolidated schools back to their small towns and farms and cannot wait to drive their cars away on that highway of diamonds into the consolidated cities where they look back in shame and wonder strat between what they know and what they have inside. It's the economy. Stupid. The economy that looks for the maximum return, for the quick turnaround, for the short term gain, for the unearned income, for the big lotto, it's the economy's stupid. The economy is impatient. It has a short attention span. It is easily bored. It is hungry. It is late for its next appointment. It puts you on hold, does not return your call. It's the economy's stupid. And the economy has you working two jobs. It is mandatory over time. It is expensive sneakers made by sweating children. It is cheap food picked by landless hands. It is good paying jobs disappearing from American towns and reappearing. Nowhere, as you closed up Main Street, as you boarded up Mill, it is your conda minimized factory. It is your cookie cutter mall. It is not accountable. It is not America. It's the economy's stupid. The economy now has no borders or horizons or faces or hands. The economy has only one rule, more. And the economy lies. The economy tells us it is about freedom. The economy is about dependence. Not on land or animals or weather or neighbors, but on machinery and fuel and credit. Most farmers have borrowed their way right out of farming. No government loan, no government program will change that cycle because the government is powerless now. See? And the government is the economy's biggest cheerleader. It plays by the same rules, the quick fix, the stronger army, the bigger bomb. The dependence on machinery to do work that can only effectively be done by humans, it consolidates when diversity is required. It's about economy. It's about small towns with banks and baseball teams. It's about economy, general stores, churches, families, seminars. It's about economy. A schoolhouse, a radio station, a newspaper, a filling station. It's about open spaces, open opportunities, open eyes, open hearts. It's about choice, re-course, response, responsibility. It's about economy, choice, re-course, responsibility. It's about economy, choice, re-course, responsibility. It's about economy, choice, re-course, response, responsibility. It's about economy, choice, re-course, responsibility. It's about economy, choice, re-course, responsibility. It's about economy. That was John Nakutchen's song. It's The Economy Stupid. In case you didn't know where that came from, it's in reference to advice that Bill Clinton was given during his first electoral campaign focus always on the economy. It's the economy stupid. And we're talking today to some people who don't think it's the economy. We're talking to Cassie and Dan Green and Gina Cassius, and they're the sponsors of Eau Claire's really, really free market. I don't like to play devil's advocate exactly, but I guess I've known spoiled children along the way who got everything they wanted and more. And they kept saying more and more and more. The more you gave them, the more that they thought that they wanted. Isn't there some danger of that? Don't we have to protect against people being too grabby and thinking that they're entitled to everything that someone else has? Cassie? Well, the main idea behind the market that we want to accomplish for Eau Claire is bringing the community together, and in that sense, hoping that people will feel the gift of giving instead of greediness, because money brings greed, I think, and I think that's the root of greed. And when somebody is giving something to you for free, you're more likely to be more thankful for it than just blowing a bunch of money on your credit card, feeling like you deserved it in that kind of sense. We hope that that situation wouldn't come up, and with the energy that's in the free market, I really don't believe that that would happen. Gina? We have had plenty of people walk by of all different kinds, and one time there was a group of girls. They almost looked like they were ready to go to the mall or something like that, you know, and they'd come up and be like, "Oh, take anything," you know, and they're like, "Oh, well, no, thank you. We really don't need anything," you know, and Cassie said, "Yeah, but don't tell me you're not going to go off to the mall and buy, you know, new pair of shoes when you don't need it." And we've never really come across that when people are like, "Oh, let me take everything, you know, well, this is free." So I think that has to do a lot more with money. Like Cassie said, that just really drives it along. ♪ ♪ Life I'll always have one set, I guess I'll never have. I'll be working for somebody else until I'm in my grade. I'll be dreaming of a life of ease and mountains. Oh, oh. ♪ ♪ Mountains, oh, mountains, oh, thanks. Oh, oh. ♪ ♪ I have a big expensive car, drag my furs on the ground. ♪ ♪ I have a name, I can tell to bring me in if I... ♪ ♪ Everyone will look at me with envy and with greed. ♪ ♪ Now revel in their attention and mountains, oh, mountains, oh, thanks. ♪ ♪ Sweet lazy life, champagne and caviar. ♪ ♪ Hope you'll come and find me, you know who we are. ♪ ♪ Those who deserve the best in life, know what our money is worth. ♪ ♪ Those who saw misfortune, who's having mountains, know nothing at birth. ♪ ♪ Oh, they tell me, it's still the time to save my soul, they tell me. ♪ ♪ We know it's hard, count all those material things you gain by. ♪ ♪ Exploiting all the human beings. ♪ ♪ So more than you need, this is a dream. ♪ ♪ They'll make you far far, they'll make you queen. ♪ ♪ Won't I lonely, have it all be arranged. ♪ ♪ Brave that's a deep and wide enough for me and all my mountains, oh, thanks. ♪ ♪ Oh, they tell me, it's still the time to save my soul, they tell me. ♪ ♪ Now I saw, count all those material things you gain by. ♪ ♪ Exploiting all the human beings. ♪ ♪♪ ♪ No snare I can know only. ♪ ♪♪ ♪ Good good people are. ♪ ♪ Good people are only. ♪ ♪ My stepping stones. ♪ ♪ It's gotta take all my mountains and things to surround me. ♪ ♪♪ ♪ Keep all my enemies away. ♪ ♪ Keep my sadness and loneliness at bay. ♪ ♪♪ ♪ The pipe I'll hold as I once had. ♪ ♪ I guess I'll never have. ♪ ♪ I'll be working for somebody else. ♪ ♪ Until I'm in my grave. ♪ ♪ I'll be dreaming of a life of ease and pounces. ♪ ♪ Oh, mountains of thanks ♪ ♪ I'll be dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming dreaming ♪ I'll be dreaming, dreaming, dreaming, dreaming, dreaming ♪ ♪ Oh, I'll be dreaming, dreaming, dreaming, dreaming, dreaming ♪ You probably recognized that was Tracy Chapman, her song "Mountain of Things." I'm Mark Helpsmeet and you're listening to "Spirit in Action." And we're visiting today with Dan and Cassie Green and Cassie's sister, Gina Cassius, and the project that they brought to Eau Claire this past year called "The Really, Really Free Market." I guess one of the ideas that I have is that when people take too much, it's because they have fear that there won't be some in the future. I think people, for instance, who live through the Great Depression in the U.S. grew up with fear that there wouldn't be money, they wouldn't be food the next day. And so there was "Save, Save, Save." I have to put it away, I have to hoard it kind of thing. And I don't fault him for that, but that kind of fear. Is that still driving our country, even when we're the most affluent country in the world? Gina? I think so. I've actually known people that have gone through poverty at one time in their lives growing up. And once they have a bit of money or something like that, they really just kind of go nuts over it and they can't wait to have more and they can't wait to be a part of the society that they always dreamed of being a part of, of having money and being able to do anything you'd please with it. I think that really drives everyone's greediness almost. I think that's one of the historical, I guess, roots of hoarding it all, like you said. Cassie? I hope not, because there's so much in America, especially. We have everything and I hope that that fear is slowly dying because we consume more meat than any other country and we're keeping it all for ourselves. So that's kind of what we're doing, trying to show people that there is enough and we don't need to keep making and taking because it's already here. If you would just look at a different country and see how much they're getting by with and realize how much more we have than they do, then once you think twice about that, you might come away with more of a thought that we don't need as much as we have. Did you folks grow up with affluence yourself? I mean, were you well off or did you actually have to worry about where am I going to get a next meal or am I going to be able to pay for the bus go to school or just whatever? How did you folks grow up? Gina? Me and Cassie actually grew up in a middle class family. We never really had to worry about food or anything like that, but we'd hear our parents talk about, you know, bills and kind of getting by and making sure we had enough. But we were never at a point where, you know, we didn't have enough food on the table. But there was always that awareness of saving and counting your pennies and things like that. That was always taught to us is make sure you know what you're doing with your money. That worry of knowing where your money is at or how much you have and, you know, do you have enough? I think that really adds up to the whole stress of even living in America. So I think just to deny that completely with the market and, you know, being able to go with that, that doesn't have to be a point in life. That doesn't have to be the point of living or the currency of life because that's not it at all, you know? I guess our opening effect, the reason we started the market and the reason it stood out to me. Are you saying that in part, Gina, that by starting the market you're freeing yourselves from some of the messages, the kind of processing, the kind of fear of loss of money? Very much so. When you move out of the house and things like that, you try and free yourself as much as possible of things, you know, you want to weed out of what you really believe in and what you've been taught throughout your life. I think that's a very important time to really find out who you are. And this was just a point that being a Cassie made about ourselves is that we don't put nearly as much importance on money than our family or what we were brought up to believe that, you know, money was important and things like that. So, yeah. One of the times when I find that people get very worried about money is when a new child comes in, and we've got a child right here, Cassie's nine-month-old. Did that make you more afraid of not having enough money of worrying about the bills? Either you, Cassie, or you, Dan? Cassie? At the beginning it did, because we're always hearing, you know, when you have a child you spend tons more money and we didn't have much money at all before a co-i came. He was kind of an unplanned thing, but when he came we have a good family and a strong family to lean back on and good people, good friends, and we got everything we needed through his grandparents. He was their first grandchild, so his grandma, you know, went nuts with buying clothes and things like that, so we probably had diapers until he was four months. We had everything we needed, and that's what we're trying to build. There's a strong family and community where you don't need to worry about those things because we're all taking care of each other. Did you have some comments, Dan? When I grew up in my younger years, my parents were not very well off at all. We lived in a trailer house and kind of moved around a few times, but they believed that family was important. You know, money wasn't an issue, as long as we had food and shelter and stuff like that. My mom stayed home with us until we went to school. My dad was a very hard worker. He worked 60 plus hours a week, easy. I mean, nowadays I'm out of the house and I got my own family. My parents are still very, very good things. They've helped us out many, many times with bills, and like Cassie said, with diapers and just clothes and baby needs. So, I mean, I guess that value kind of instilled in me that, you know, as long as we have the important things, that's all we need, and that just giving is a really good thing. I know some people who think that the highest moral value is to have worked hard. It's kind of Protestant work ethic type idea. And that there's actually some shame connected with just receiving anything for free. That giving isn't so much of value as, "Hey, I earned it. I made my own. I did it my way." What kind of values did you folks grow up with in relationship to community? You know, be dependent or independent related to the neighbors around you. Cassie? I think that's what drives people to living singly and kind of protecting themselves is they worked hard and they're buying what they deserve when, you know, that really puts you in a protected environment where you need to fend for yourself and you need to work as hard as possible to get everything you need when you're spending eight hours a day away from your family. And I believe that those eight hours should be spent with your family and with your community building a stronger life for everyone. Because if we all work together, life is going to be happier and easier, and that's my belief. From my point of view, I'm being just a little over 50, you folks are on the beginning edge of changing the world. And I think that's a really good thing. What's going to be like 10 years from now for you, for your community of folks that you're living in? If you do this, and the idea grows, catches hold. What kinds of things that will touch your life would be different here in Eau Claire? Gina? Yeah, 10 years is a long time. A lot can happen in it, I mean, in 15 minutes. I'm currently going to North High, I'm only 16, I'm a junior, life's just pretty much beginning. I just moved out of my parents' house this year, moved in with Cassie and Dan. So far, just dealing with money on my own, I get a certain amount of money for my parents to live on and I have to deal with that. With myself, I have to buy my own groceries and things like that. So, I guess dealing with money, trying to learn independence, is rough. I don't know, it's let me know what my true values are about money and I think I've become stronger in having to deal with money on my own. Because you struggle when you don't have enough or something like that, but when you see what's going on in the market, you know that there's no reason to. I mean, we have a neighbor down the street that, she's so great, her name's Katie Mackay. She's always been her point to let us know if we ever needed any food. She has an open pantry. And once you start getting involved in your community, that really becomes stronger is knowing that you're not alone and that you don't have to be at all. You're choosing your own suffering. Like with the work ethic thing, people have been taught to be independent. And what is that? It's nothing, it's a myth. You're not independent because there's a million people around you. We're in one world, we're in a country, we're in a town. This is a collection of people, not isolated boxes. But I think if this keeps on going and the ideas and the values that we're trying to instill with the market catches on and keeps on going, I think life would be a lot easier. There's a lot of people everywhere that are in poverty and aren't very much need. And there's people everywhere that have so much to give. Cassie. Well, I just turned 20 and I am married and I have my baby, of course, as you can hear him in the background. I think in 10 years I hope to see the crime rate go down because we've become closer and protecting ourselves and protecting each other. And I hope to see down the street everyone growing their own garden and sharing their vegetables, you know, a mini farmers market down the road. I hope to see people actually getting out there and knowing each other's names. And I hope that people have more time to be at home with their families and a stronger feeling of being connected with the people around us. I'm kind of wondering about what kind of religious or spiritual background you have that gets you to this point. You've talked a little bit about the economic things. Did you grow up in families which were really generous that gave everything away and shared with your neighbors that way? It was strong neighborhood groups where you knew all your neighbors, that kind of stuff. And what kind of values and beliefs did that engender in you? Cassie. Well, me and my sister grew up in a Christian church and I think in churches they really tried to build strong holds in the people in the church. They get together every Sunday and they meet and they sing together and they converse with each other. And I really would like to see that as an entire town, not so much based on a God bringing everybody together, but each other wanting to come together and get to know each other. So I think being in the church community really brought my mindset towards that kind of lifestyle. Gina? I never identified with being a Christian. I don't think ever. I just never, I remember being young and going along through the motions and things like that, but I just never identified with it. But the thing that I did take out of it was the community in the church. And I really think that the church is kind of an excuse for people to feel close to each other. I mean, people get together and pray for each other. I think that's also just kind of a metaphor for caring about each other and loving each other. I think it's kind of sad that it's only limited to one religious group and you have to believe in this criteria of a lifestyle. Also our mother, our mother was a strong believer in community. We did not live in the most community driven town at all. I mean, we lived a street away from a pretty bad part of town. She always made it a point to try and bring people together. She started all on her own yearly block parties. My mother has instilled in us that community is very important and that people are very important and giving is one of the best things you can do. She has always given as much as she could. Damn. Well, like I said, my family was very giving and I think where that came from was church. I was raised in a Christian non-denominational church where they really stressed community and that was a really good thing. And everyone is real giving to each other and I believe that shouldn't be limited to churches and that should just be normal. I guess I'll toss in my two cents worth. I think that for Christians to be living up to the really commands that Jesus gave us, it has to not be limited to churches. Because in fact, Jesus said, "Whatever you did to the least of my brothers, the least person that you did to me." And so from my point of view, if you're going to be a good Christian, you're going to love everybody completely regardless of whether they're part of your church or not. But somehow I think you're right. I've seen at least a number of people who have drawn the walls around their church where the person I have to care for is in my church. Obviously, there's something about the free market and extending this. We have enough ideal, which I guess maybe it seems to be for all three of you, part of your fundamental beliefs. Are there other ideas that you can enunciate that are part of fundamentally what you believe on this kind of spiritual level? Gina? One point that we really wanted to make with the market is community. One of the things about the market is that you could pretty much do anything. I mean, we really want people to just come out and give what they can. Meaning, you know, and it's even fun for yourself as being open to giving entertainment or playing for free, or I juggle for free at the market. Dan plays guitar sometimes, and you know, it's all just kind of a free form. I mean, people rarely get that without big limitations and rules, and we're open to anything and absolutely anything. I mean, painters can come in pain. That's something I feel strongly about the market and what we're trying to accomplish with that. Cassie? Just kind of going off with Gina said, if you think about it, if you go to the mall, you have to be able to afford to go there. If you go to a church, you kind of have to believe the same things they believe to go there. And with the free market, nobody has to have money, and nobody has to be a part of any kind of religion or anything. So everything is free to free, meaning free to people and free things and free everything. So when we say really, really free market, we mean really, really free. We've actually had people ask for "Quai" and ask if the baby was for free, and we have a couple good offers. But yeah, that's the only other role is that, yeah, there's no child trading within the market. Gina, you've mentioned that you're at North High School. Is that an easier or a harder place than, say, mainstream, middle-aged or clear to get your ideas across? I actually think it's a little bit harder in which I really wish it wouldn't have been or is. But I think it's because kids my age tend to not take things as seriously as you'd wish they would. I've handed out flyers against Nike sweatshops in Indonesia and hung up some anti-army posters and things like that. And everyone will kind of laugh a little bit and be like, "Oh, yeah, thanks." But I really don't think they take it seriously enough to consider it. So it has been a rough time. I really wanted to use it as a resource. These are the people we need to get to. It's been a lot harder than I thought it would be. I really want to keep on trying with that, but it's rough. It really is. You mentioned, Gina, your anti-sweatshop activism, your anti-war activism. How do those dovetail with the ideas of the really, really free market? Is there some relationship between those ideas and those values? I believe there is. The really, really free market promotes recycling of clothing and things like that. You can get a Nike sweater at the market, but not supporting those sweatshops. I mean, you're supporting recycling. The whole anti-war thing, we're promoting freedom, not slavery. We're trying to be as free from any of that as possible. America is supporting so many things that are so against our ideas of freedom. We're always talking about freedom of speech and freedom of life. Basically, what are we doing in Iraq right now? Is that freedom? Is that liberty? I think it's all just a productive mindset, is what the market and those ideals go along with. I think all three of you are vegetarian of one sort or another. Where does that come from? What's that got to do with your fundamental values and maybe then the really free market? Dan? Well, for me, a lot of it's just an eating preference. I think it's a really healthy diet. I mean, there are a lot of benefits and a lot of things wrong with just the way America and the world in general consumes meat. It's just a very inefficient way of feeding people. Just cattle grazing takes up so much space and resources and there's better ways to do it. And Gina, why are you vegetarian? Or actually, I think you're vegan, right? Yeah, I became a vegan about almost a year now. I also agree with Dan. For me, the idea of veganism or vegetarianism is a peaceful way of living. I mean, you're not supporting slaughter at all and that's something I definitely don't agree with. If you can kill an animal, something that is alive and living, then why can I cheat kill a human being? Because it's alive and living. And I think it really just promotes the will to kill. I think it just supports the whole mindset of brutality. But also, it is very, very efficient. Veganism, vegetarianism, is a very efficient way of living and eating. Every vegetarian that there is, there's four more people that can eat that day. Because the amount of grain that it takes to feed a cow can feed five people. I guess how that would connect to the market though is being smart with your resources. That's something we're really trying to accomplish with the market is awareness of what you're using and what you don't need. Before we lose track of this, I want to make sure that we can track you guys down in case people want to connect up with the really free market. How would they know where to get a hold of you guys? I mean, I think the free market has moved a little bit. It started in part of Owen Park kind of migrated over towards First and Water Street. It's going to be going to the farmers market. How can they get up-to-date information on this? Cassie? One way is checking your volume one, of course. Another way to is just give us a call. My phone number is 715-497-9703. If you just want to come or do something or want to know where we'll be at and what time, you're free to call anytime. Leave a message if we don't answer. Do you have an email address anybody could contact? Yeah, it's Dan at thesoundofgreen.com. Another thing that we're pretty involved with right now is trying to start up a community bike shop where we service people's bikes and teach them how to do the service themselves and provide them a place to do it. We plan on just giving away free bikes to anybody who needs them. No questions asked. If you have anything to contribute, whether it's your time or bike parts or tools or a space to do it, we'll accept anything. Again, just give us a call at 715-497-9703 or 715-497-9704 or email us at Dan@thesoundofgreen.com. Do you really mean any kind of bike at all? Is this if someone just has an extra wheel or an extra brake handle or is that okay too? Yeah, absolutely. The stuff that we're kind of in dire need of right now is space and tools. Bike parts, that's a little bit easier to find. You know, I guess I want to take one more snapshot into your private life because I think it's maybe part of a kind of a subculture that spawns things like the free market. Cassie, you're 20 and Dan, you're 21. And now you've got a younger sister living here, a 16-year-old sister. Did you see this as a burden, as a positive thing, or is this another case where having another person around increases the riches, you know, by sharing you've got more? Cassie? Well, me and Dan are pretty soft-spoken people and Jan is kind of the outspoken one. So we really needed her at the time that she came. Me and Dan have always had these ideas brewing in our heads, but she was the one to come and make it happen. So she came when she needed us and we needed her and she's just been great to have. I think it's getting near-quise nap time here. You know, I want to thank all three of you for bringing the idea of the free market here to Eau Claire. I think it's something that holds real potential and I think it can be a spiritually transforming idea that we really have enough and that we just need to put it out on the table to be shared. So thanks to all of you, Dan, Cassie and Gina, and to Kwai. Thank you, Mark. I really want to tell you how much this means stress. We've really been kind of waiting for this. I mean, when you called, we are so excited. Just thank you so much for having us. Love grows one by one, two by two and four by four. Love grows round like a circle and comes back knocking at your front door. Love grows one by one, two by two and four by four. Love grows round like a circle and comes back knocking at your front door. Note by note we make a song, voice by voice we sing it. Wire by one we fill up the world with the music that we bring it. Love grows one by one, two by two and four by four. Love grows round like a circle and comes back knocking at your front door. So let me take your hand, my friend. We'll each tape the hand of another. One by one we'll reach for all our sisters and our brothers. Love grows one by one, two by two and four by four. Love grows round like a circle and comes back knocking at your front door. Love grows one by one, two by two and four by four. Love grows round like a circle and comes back knocking at your front door. Our final song there was by Carol Johnson. It's called Love grows one by one. You've been listening to an interview with the sponsors of Eau Claire's really really free market. Cassie and Dan Green and Gina Cassius. You can hear this program again via my website northernspiritradio.org and on that site you can find a list of the music, links about the performers and more information on our guests. The theme music for Spirit in Action is "I Have No Hands but Yours" by Carol Johnson. Thank you for listening. I welcome your comments and stories of those leading lives of spiritual fruit. You can email me at helpsmeat@usa.net. May you find deep roots to support you and grow steadily toward the light. This is Spirit in Action. ♪ I have no higher cause for you and dreams ♪ ♪ To love and serve your neighbor ♪ ♪ Enjoying selflessness ♪ ♪ To love and serve your neighbor ♪ ♪ Enjoying selflessness ♪ ♪ To love and serve your neighbor ♪ ♪ You