Spirit in Action
Patti See/Kidney Donations
I have no hands but yours to tend my sheep No handkerchief but yours to dry the eyes of those who weep I have no arms but yours with which to hold The ones grown weary from the struggle and weak from growing old I have no hands but yours with which to see To let my children know that I am up and up is everything I have no way to feed the hungry souls No clothes to give and make, give the ragged and the morn So be my heart, my hand, my tongue Through you I will be done Fingers, have I none to help undone The tangled knots and twisted chains that strangle fearful minds Welcome to Spirit in Action, my name is Mark Helpsmead Each week I'll be bringing you stories of people living lives a fruitful service of peace, community, compassion, creative action and progressive efforts I'll be tracing the spiritual roots that support and nourish them in their service Above all, I'll seek out light, love and helping hands being shared between our many neighbors on this planet Hoping to inspire and encourage you to sink deep roots and produce sacred fruit in your own life We visit today with Patty C. Patty is an ordinary person who took an extraordinary leap of faith by becoming a good Samaritan kidney donor last year Patty, as a writer and an inwardly reflective person, has looked for better and better ways to share her rich life with the world Serving meals at the community table, acting as advisor for the UW Eau Claire feminist group, and now, through the University of Minnesota Fairview Medical Center, she gave a most intimate gift, one of her kidneys, to a complete stranger Patty, welcome to Spirit in Action Thank you, glad to be here You came to my attention because of an unusual service, I guess it's unfortunate that it's an unusual service, that you offered to some anonymous person out there in the world Why did you become a kidney donor? About 18 months ago, I stumbled upon a New Yorker article, I don't usually subscribe to the New Yorker or read it regularly, but I stumbled upon an article about a millionaire philanthropist who'd given away much of his money And he wanted to do something more, so he walked into a transplant center in Philadelphia and offered up a kidney The article followed him through the donation and afterward, through his family, thinking he was crazy, his parents nearly disowning him, his wife nearly leaving him But what I took away from the article was that, indeed, I could donate an organ before I died, I'd always wanted to be an organ donor, I'd carried around an organ donor card, a little dot on my license since I was 16 So that was the first that I realized that I could donate a kidney to a stranger, I didn't immediately go out and research more, I thought about it, I talked to a friend about it, and then forgot about it And then maybe about a year later, I read an article in the leader telegram about a local woman from Chippewa Falls, the town I'm from, who'd put an ad in the newspaper seeking a kidney for her mother And there was a 1-800 contact number for Fairview University Medical Center in Minneapolis And as it turns out, Fairview is one of the few transplant centers in the United States that takes non-directed or good Samaritan donors So I knew that I didn't match the woman who was seeking a kidney for her mother, or match her mother But that led me to do more research to find out more about non-directed donation And I carried around that 1-800 number for about two weeks, and I knew my personality, I knew that once I made the decision myself, and once I called the number, that it was a done deal in my mind And when I did finally call Fairview Medical Center and talk to the transplant coordinator, she asked that I have a blood test done, and I really believed that once I called they would send a helicopter for me, I was so very sure that I wanted to donate I didn't realize that they wait for donors to go through a 6-month waiting period, and that I had to have a physical and of course a psych exam so they could figure out that I wasn't crazy for wanting to do this Did your family end up thinking that you were crazy? I didn't tell my family until afterward, so I can talk a little bit about that One of the reasons I didn't tell my family is that I suspected they'd think I was crazy In the 6-month waiting period, I told just one close friend, he probably got tired of me talking about kidney donation, I'm sure But I didn't tell any other friends or any family members until about 2 weeks before the surgery I told my son, who was 14 at the time, and the way that I framed the donation was that it was as safe as getting an appendix out He was 14 the summer before high school, he really was too focused on what his mom was doing, so he just said "okay" and went on from there So since I've rained it in that way, I don't think that he was aware enough to be afraid for me I told a couple of friends, one friend tried to talk me out of it and said that it was not a good idea to do this And what if somebody I love needs a kidney, I was prepared for that kind of question, and I knew from the start that I just couldn't live a what-if life And I know no one, personally, who's ever had kidney failure or who has needed a kidney transplant The chances of me damaging my existing kidney are so very slim that I just couldn't live that kind of what-if life I told some people I work with, and they were for the most part supportive, I had some really funny reactions A woman I work with said how brave I was and that she couldn't even pierce her ears and so she was impressed with a kidney donation So I had the surgery and then about a week later told my parents and siblings, I told two of my sisters, maybe 2 weeks before I chose them specifically because I suspected they would be supportive and they were When I told my parents, they were surprised and I was afraid that they were going to be upset that I told them afterwards rather than before And I explained to them if I had an adult child who was doing this, I'd probably want to know afterward And they understood that, they didn't really say much of anything, it wasn't until I started to write about my experiences And then I was interviewed by the leader Telegram that I think they started to realize that maybe this was a pretty big deal Some of my siblings haven't ever spoken to me about it I assume that a very primary thing that people have done is said why would you want to do this? What motivation? I mean even if the medical risk isn't tremendously high, even if you won't necessarily need that other kidney They say why do it? And for you, what is the motivation? Well, when I originally started to research, I started to think about why should I do this And then the more research I did, the more my thinking shifted to how can I not do this? I really felt drawn to it, that sounds a little hokey, but everything I read, I just felt like, yes I could do this Now that's not to say that I wasn't afraid, I went through a period of being very very terrified Particularly after I went through the physical, I went through the psyche valve I found out that yes I would be a good candidate, something I'd always believed anyway But when it really came down to it and we were choosing dates for the surgery And the transplant team was looking for a recipient for me I really started to get terrified and started to think, oh my god I've made an awful mistake And I had thoughts of backing out, but I prayed about it, I meditated on it, I thought most of Indiana Jones That sounds a little goofy, but that was it for me I thought of Indiana Jones in the last crusade and Indiana Jones has to make a leap of faith And I kept thinking to myself, this is just a leap of faith, so have faith Eventually my fears went away, I woke up one day and thought about the surgery and I just wasn't afraid And I don't know that I can wrap any more words around it except to say that That I just got to a point where I realized, yes this is what I want to do, the risks are minimal I have faith that it's all going to work out and so far it has I'm sure this struck a lot of people as a very giving thing for you to do Something that reaches really deep and gives of yourself to others What kind of roots does that kind of giving have in your life, where does it come from, what motivates you To go beyond just giving the shirt off your back to someone else, that you don't even know It's funny, when I think about the experience now and I'm almost a year past the donation, I donated on July 26, 2005 I don't think about it as giving the shirt off of my back or giving away even something that I necessarily needed I think that in all of my research and my talking about this and praying about it and meditating about it I came to the point where I just looked at my extra kidney as a spare, something I didn't necessarily need And I so convinced myself of that, that I don't even think of it in anything but those terms right now I have a lot of experience giving in my community and I know how good it feels to give And so I think that in part my kidney donation was an extension of that It wasn't as if I woke up one day and thought "hey I'll give a kidney" it progressed from volunteering to donating time, money to speaking out about what I believe in So it really was a gradual process and I don't know that I could have done this, certainly not as an 18 year old Certainly not as a 28 year old, but at 38 I was at the point in my life physically and emotionally and spiritually That this was just a good fit for me Love is something if you give it away, give it away, give it away, all love Something if you give it away, you'll end up having more It's just like a magic penny, hold on tight and you won't have any But land that's spent and you'll have so many, the roll ball over the floor for love It's something if you give it away, give it away, give it away, all love It's something if you give it away, you'll end up having more Money's dandy and we like to use it, love is better if you don't refuse it It's a treasure and you'll never lose it, unless you lock up your door for love It's something if you give it away, give it away, give it away, all love It's something if you give it away, you'll end up having more So let's go dance until the break of day, and if there's a pipe or a weekend pay For love is something if you give it away, you'll end up having more For love is something if you give it away, give it away, give it away, all love It's something if you give it away, you'll end up having more Love is something if you give it away, give it away, give it away, all love It's something if you give it away, you'll end up having more Where are you at spiritually and where did you come from spiritually? You mentioned several times that you prayed about this or meditated about this What are those religious spiritual roots? I was raised Catholic, I went through 12 years of Catholic school Which I think gave me a very good basis for spirituality I'm not a regular church goer anymore, but I have a very good relationship with God I pray every day, I reflect on my life every day and have time to think about what went well, what didn't go so well I think that just that time for reflection and making that a priority in my life Has really contributed to a sense of spirituality that I didn't have When I was going to church regularly and just really going through the motions of worshiping I feel like I'm much more godly and spiritual now that I don't attend church formally I think a lot of people who say that you don't have to go to church to be a spiritual person Which I very much agree with Also then do not take the time apart to pray, to center their lives How did you get into that habit? What led you to be that kind of practicing religious spiritual person Without the outward forces of conformity dragging you in that direction One of the things that helped I think is that I'm a writer And throughout the past 20 years I've trained myself to pay attention to the details Every part of the day I'm carrying around my little notebook here, you can see that right now I continuously take notes And even just holding the notebook in my hand I'm convinced makes me pay better attention So paying attention to the details gives me something to reflect upon every night And I'm also into my nightly rituals which involves brushing teeth and washing face And laying down in bed and reading and then turning out the lights and contemplating on my day And praying and thinking about the day tomorrow And also a part of this donation I think stems from every night thinking what a wonderful life I have Always been very blessed even when I've experienced hardships going through a separation and divorce Having difficulties in my life I've always thought I'm very blessed I've always had a positive outlook on my life and always recognized that I have plenty to share I've always had two or more of everything and that mantra that the kidney society uses got to give one I think really could be a mantra for my life or that I'd like it to be a mantra for my life That I'd like to give away half of what I have and keep just what I need to be happy And I live a simple life, it doesn't take a whole lot for me to be happy We've got everything that we need There's no reason not to go see We've got everything that it takes There's no reason to hesitate So jump right in, let's begin We've got everything that it takes We can run without running the pants We don't need leotards to dance We can walk in the woods without having to shoot We can even swim without a swim and suit We don't need a stereo to sing We don't need much of anything We've got everything that we need There's no reason not to proceed So jump right in, let's begin We've got everything that we need We can smile without history We don't need chemicals to be cleaned We don't need skis to play in the snow We don't need liquor to help let go We can eat without a refrigerator We can even think without a calculator We've got everything that we need There's no reason not to proceed So jump right in, let's begin We've got everything that we need We don't need money to have wealth We don't need medicine to have health We can be entertained without TV We don't need sight in order to see We don't need a road to keep on walking We can even die without a coffin We've got everything that we need There's no reason not to proceed So jump right in, let's begin We've got everything that we need Well if someday the time arrives We must know how to survive Without all we're accustomed to We'll discover what to do Down to bedrock, down to bone But find the strength we've never known We've got everything that we need There's no reason not to proceed So jump right in, let's begin We've got everything that we need We've got everything that it takes There's no reason to hesitate But jump right in, let's begin We've got everything that it takes You have a son still who must be 15-16 at this point Sometimes kids object you giving away their inheritance Maybe he's one of the people who could have been your kidney donor How did he react to your act of generosity once you did it? He is AB positive And so that's one of the things that I considered Because I have only one child What happens if he needs a kidney But I also had to think about The fact that there's somebody's child out there right now Who needs a kidney? The chances of my son Ever needing a kidney are so very slim That I couldn't say "Well I'm keeping mine" Just in case my son needs his So I know there were people out there because I've heard from at least one of them Who thought it was awful that I would give away a kidney Just in case my son needs it And I just have to be rational with those people And remind them that The chances of my child needing a piece of me That piece in particular are so slim that I can't Just save my parts for him I've also had people who are very smart And activists in their own way Say that my family has first dibs on my body I can't approach my parts that way either Because again the chances of someone in my family Needing a kidney are so very slim I just couldn't lead that what if life? It sounds to me like you went through a fair amount of thinking About this paddy that you weighed the pros and cons You did your research In the end do you think it was an intellectual decision A spiritual decision, emotional decision What was the real root of the decision that you made? On the surface it was an intellectual decision As I said doing research I started out Saying "Why should I do this?" And then I ended up saying "How can I not?" And that I think it was based on science and ethics But it really came down to a spiritual decision And a leap of faith That was the most difficult part My head said early on "Yes" of course More people should do this if they only knew about The possibilities of donating to a stranger Everyone should consider this if they're healthy And financially secure enough to take off of work But I think the hardest part was getting over those fears And it was easy for irrational thoughts to creep into my mind I thought "What if this man is a jerk?" "I know nothing about him" "What if I'm giving my kidney to a person who's going to have a horrible life afterward?" And I had to just put that out of my mind Or "What if I'm donating kidney to someone whose life is one I don't approve of?" Or "What if he does awful things afterward?" But I had to just put those thoughts out of my mind And also believe if someone has a near death experience Gets another shot at life from a stranger That that person is going to work towards having a very good life And I believe that and I haven't met my recipient But I believe that he's out there somewhere And maybe has some of my tendencies, maybe doesn't But I trust that he's having a wonderful life Do you know any other people who've been non-directed donors Who've taken this kind of Samaritan path? I do, in fact, very early in my research I found a website that had a link to other donors And so I contacted one donor And he happened to be a Catholic priest who donated Through a good Samaritan program out in New York He got me connected with other non-directed donors They think of themselves as sort of a club And I guess now I'm in the club So I was connected with maybe 15 to 20 or so Other non-directed donors from throughout the United States And I had email contact with them for six or seven months before My surgery, I continued to have contact with a couple of them In fact, when I told my parents about my donation I brought in an article that Father Patrick Sullivan had written About his own inspirations for donating and his own donor, Donnie Donner experiences And in fact, I did that because I wanted my parents to see "Oh, donating organ could be a Catholic experience" And he very eloquently talked about how he was called To do this and how he saw it as a way of promoting his faith And Father Sullivan is out there now Somewhere, I think his last trip was to Japan And he'd gone to promote organ donation And so he really influenced me not only to have faith And the fact that I'd make the right decision about donating But also to talk about my experiences and to promote organ donation myself I suspected before my surgery that afterward I would want to talk about it And I would want to promote organ donation But I also didn't know before the experience how I would react During the surgery or afterward would I have a good experience And so that in part was why I didn't talk about it much Or write about it before Since having the surgery though and having a very, very quick recovery Having an excellent experience in the transplant center And reflecting on it and starting to gather my thoughts And to put into words why I wanted to do this And just simply spreading the word I have become more activist I think is the only word I have That fits about just getting the word out That there are lots of people out there I know who give blood Who are active in their communities Who are on the national bone marrow registry like I was And never got a call Well if that bone marrow thing didn't work out You can always donate a kidney The kidney that you donated, Patty, went to a man And that must have been a kind of a strange thing For some reason I think our society has probably a lot of hang-ups About our body and about genders and so on What kind of reaction did you have that this went to a man And an older man at that He's 50 so not particularly old, he has a lot of life left My initial reaction I'm embarrassed to say was that I was disappointed I really hoped early on in the process that my kidney would go to a child You knew when I contacted Fairview and went through the screening That I could not have any part in choosing who the kidney would go to And I also realized through my research that that really was the best approach Because they would find the recipient who was the best match Who would need the least amount of anti-rejection drugs And I wanted my kidney to go to the person who would make the best use of it And that would have a high success rate and keeping my kidney for a long time So I knew that I couldn't choose but I still was disappointed I still hoped that my kidney would go to a child So it took about a day to get used to it It was a little like always wanting a girl baby And then finding out you had a boy baby, you love that baby just the same But there's still that maybe that flash of disappointment It was odd to think about a man having my kidney I was teased about finally getting to pee standing up I was teased about what will happen if a man gets a part of Patti C Will he become more like Mother Teresa and less like George Bush I don't know that I believe that but somebody teased me about that I also wonder about my cells in a man So will a man adopt more of the donor's tendencies? I don't know I've been teased that there's a man out there who's craving light beer I don't know if that's true or not Has your idea of yourself, your impression of yourself changed in the aftermath of having made the donation? Do you see yourself maybe a stronger, weaker, more generous Maybe that you've done enough already in life The last day that I was in Eau Claire, I was in Kerms parking lot And I was waiting for traffic to pass and a maybe 12 year old boy came up to my car window This was last summer and asked me if I had a quarter And I said no and he wrote off and then kept sort of circling my car And I was still stuck in traffic so I dug in my purse and I dug out a quarter And I gave it to him and I was thinking you didn't want to give a little boy a quarter And in two days you're giving away a kidney That story just strikes me as an example of how it would, I think it Early on I thought wow you know now I'm done I don't really have to do anything for the rest of my life That actually crossed my mind and I've had so many people say to me Well you have your ticket to heaven, it doesn't matter what you do for the rest of your life Well I have what maybe 60 years left of my life So of course it matters what I do I think about other ways that I'll give and I have continued to give to do other bits of activism that I'd always done I don't know as givers that any of us can say this is it now I'm done As I said I don't think about the kidney donation in the kind of generous way that I think outsiders do Just because I've gone through it I had to, I gave one away, I've moved on I certainly don't lead with my kidney donation, I don't look in the mirror and think oh you're a donor I'd look in the mirror and think oh you're paddy sea So it has certainly changed my life in a lot of extraordinary ways But I don't self identify simply as a kidney donor that's not the central part of my life I think it has made me a stronger person because Making the decision to donate, going through that long process of donating, going through major surgery and recovery They were not necessarily difficult but they were trying at times I just feel like I'm a stronger person, I feel like I can make choices that other people are going to think are crazy And this kidney donation wasn't the first one I've made that people have criticized and thought I was crazy for But I feel like I made that choice, I prayed about it, I came to a conclusion that was absolutely right for me I followed through with it, I feel good about it afterward And from childhood on I wanted to make my life extraordinary And I spent a lot of years having a very ordinary life that I wasn't content with or happy with Didn't feel like I really had a place in the world, felt like I was just going through the motions And my kidney donation is a huge step away from that ordinary life And claiming a life that's mine and that is bigger than me and that's really important I think Oh the world's so big and I'm so small, it hardly seems I matter at all Sometimes I think I'd like to do something to help out with all the problems of the world But whenever I sit down and think it through, I always wonder what can one person do? I wrote that myself, well what can one person do is a very good question if you don't do nothing at all You could spend your time saving every little time or just curled up by the wall But if you think back some over all has been done and you wonder who did it and where it came from Figure it out, without a doubt, one person at a time did it all One person at a time, it sure works fine, just roll up your sleeves, sign on the dotted line Whatever gets done is done by one, one person at a time does it all, yeah One person at a time does it all, well what can one person do is a very good question if you don't do nothing at all You could stay in bed, pull the covers overhead, I wait for the sky to fall, ha ha But if each one would just do what they could, working one at a time we could do a lot of good Figure it out, without a doubt, one person at a time does it all One person at a time, it sure works fine, pick up your load and get in line Whatever gets done is done by one, one person at a time, they do it all, yeah One person at a time does it all, well what can one person do is a very good question if you don't do nothing at all You could soak in the tub, or join a social club, or just go shopping at the mahaha But if each one would work side by side, with another one the work gets multiplied Figure it out, without a doubt, one person at a time does it all, one person at a time it sure works fine No use to wait for a bad at a time, whatever gets done is done by one, one person at a time does it all, yeah One person at a time does it all, listen children, one person at a time Everybody working one person at a time, we can all do it one person at a time, they do it all While you were speaking, Patty, you referred to yourself in terms of your activism and the ways that you've been an activist How does this fit in with other things in your life, how else do you reach out and attempt to influence and change the world? I mentioned that I'm on the National Bone Mero Registry, I've been on that list for probably about 15 years I'm conscious of giving back to my community, I am conscious of how much I have and not only giving money to specific groups, sponsoring scholarships But also giving time, working at the community table, sponsoring a holiday, giving project that organizes faculty and staff on campus To donate Christmas presents to returning adults and their children Also just being a careful consumer, being aware of what I put into my body, I think is a part of activism with a small A Being aware of where I spend my money, where I spend my time, I think is all a part of activism I also advise the college feminists on campus, which is certainly an activist group I am on the fringe of that group as a faculty advisor What do you identify as your primary community? I think it's good when you make important commitments and decisions in your life to have the sport of community You are clearly reluctant to talk to your family about some of this upcoming big decision So what is the community that supports you and makes you more powerful to do this kind of really valuable work in the world? The university community, certainly the folks I work with, who also many of them are friends, and I think of them as my core support And other friends in the community Let's talk a little bit more about the technical aspects of this First of all, why is kidney donation so important? Are there really a lot of people out there that need it? And if they don't get a kidney from you, what happens? There are about 60,000 people on the waiting list and about 17 of them die every day So yes, absolutely it's important The other thing to consider for potential donors out there is that healthy people can live a healthy life with one kidney And the procedure to harvest a kidney is very non-invasive And so for potential donors out there who may be willing to donate, it means a laparoscopic procedure, a two to three hospital stay And maybe a week recovery In the state of Wisconsin and in the state of Virginia, state workers can take up to six weeks of a paid medical leave And since I work for the University of Wisconsin Eau Claire, I was able to take four weeks of a paid medical leave And after about a week, I felt very comfortable moving around And I worked from home for a couple of weeks, I appreciated the extra time to just simply reflect and to regroup Emotionally after going through this really tremendous experience, but physically after about a week, I was absolutely fine You referred to 60,000 people who need kidneys? Is that the U.S. only? And are the statistics similar in other countries? Or maybe other countries are more or less stingy in terms of donating their organs? The 60,000 statistic is the United States only Other countries have fewer people on the waiting list, I think for a number of reasons One probably is diet, and that we have so many diabetics in our country who have kidney failure and who are in need of kidneys And that certainly influences the numbers. Also in the United States, of course, it's illegal to sell organs And it isn't illegal in many other countries And so that certainly affects the supply and the demand And there is some talk, and I would guess in my lifetime, there probably will be some type of reimbursement For non-directed organ donors like myself, either in the form of tax breaks or in the form of actual payment For organs And I was also wondering how it actually works technically that is to say you're put on the operating table And evidently they go in somewhere near your belly button and they pull out some chunk of your flesh I don't know how big this thing is Is the recipient in the next room just behind another curtain or something? Exactly. Each of us, donor and recipient has his or her own transplant team and doctor So my surgery was early in the morning. I would guess an hour to extract or harvest my kidney And then they simply took the kidney in a pan. I watched the video, not of mine, but of some other donation And they simply transplant the kidney, walk it over to the next room and it's put into the waiting recipient Do you have some sense of why it's important that you not know the other person? Going into this experience, I very much expected to meet my recipient at Fairview Medical Center They have a six month waiting period and after six months I contacted my transplant coordinator I shared with her a very short email message that I asked her to forward to my recipient Which told him that I was thinking about him, that I wanted to hear from him I was hoping that he was doing well and gave him all of my personal contact information That was almost six months ago now and I still haven't heard from him And I also knew going into this experience that if my recipient chose not to meet me or to contact me That I had to respect that, so I am respecting that and just imagining that he's out there doing very well I do know that he is healthy, the transplant coordinator told me at least that much I still don't know where he's from, I don't know any of his history but I do know that he's healthy I think in part that transplant centers ask donors and recipients to wait six months So we can find out if the kidney actually is doing well And also I think in part so the donor does not seek out any money from the recipient It's a safety net to keep the two parties apart so no money can exchange hands How big is a kidney, how big of an operation is this? Do they have to open you up like when they pull out a baby? Or is this thing fairly small or is this just a good form of weight loss for people who want to get slimmer? Not unless you want to lose weight about three ounces at a time, no it's not a good weight loss program I have about a three inch incision just below my belly button and since the surgery was done laparoscopically there are a couple of very tiny half an inch or smaller incisions around my abdomen where instruments went in And a kidney is about the size of your fist and so the large incision right below my belly button was big enough to squeeze a kidney out of it I assume they put you out for this operation? Absolutely, the last thing I remember was sitting in the pre-op room and laying down and talking to the anesthesiologist and then four hours later I woke up with a surgical nurse taking care of me You mentioned you're on the National Bone Marrow Registry, what does that involve? You simply get blood drawn and then your blood is added to this National Registry If there is ever a need for a bone marrow transplant recipient, it's all a part of a National Registry so a match can be easily made, that's not the case with organ donation and I'm hoping that eventually that will be the case The extraction involves just simply an outpatient procedure and I believe a needle is inserted into your tailbone area and bone marrow is extracted and then it's given to the recipient Let's turn to this other part that you identify as very central to your life It's this life at the university You're the faculty advisor to the college feminists, which I'm assuming is females Though I guess it could be males too because there are certainly feminist males I've met Why are you the advisor for that department? What kind of things are you helping happen by being their advisor? The college feminists is a student group and I teach in the women's studies program and we will have a women's studies major very soon right now we have a minor in a certificate program I became involved in the college feminists because I teach a class on contemporary or third wave feminism so I had many of the students who were involved in the college feminists in my class and the college feminists is about gender justice, promoting gender justice and social justice for men and women on our campus and beyond They focus on various projects, get out the vote They organize, take back the night rallies, they focus on body image issues They also really function as a social group for young women and young men who have a common interest in gender justice I don't really want to pick on you because I know it wasn't your decision but isn't there something a little hypocritical about calling something which is for equality of the sexist feminism in the same way that humanity was referred to as mankind? Yeah, absolutely, I think that in part it's because many university campuses are still embracing the word feminism in feminist and I think that we're probably not ready to move away from that right now but the real goal it seems to me is gender justice and including both men and women So Patty, what do you think that you got out of this donation, this experience that you had? What was the payback for you? Lots of paybacks, actually, it reinforced that I want to have a deliberate life that I want to make good choices about my body, that I want to make good choices about my wealth and in this case my wealth was having two kidneys one more than I needed I also, I believe, will have good karma for the rest of my life The night that I got home from the hospital, I was staying at my friend Bruce Taylor's house and he hadn't seen me after the surgery and when I got to his place he hugged me a long, long time and he said, "No, nothing bad can ever happen to you" and he got a little weepy and I laughed and laughed and said, "Oh, is that patty logic? If you give away a kidney, then nothing bad can ever happen to you." But the more I think about it, I really do think I have good karma I've made my place in the world, I have given away a good chunk of me I also feel really good about having given a part of myself away A lot of people thought that I was brave and said, "Oh, you saved a life" I don't know that I think about it in those terms, but I do think about it in terms of just feeling good about having given and I know that there are some folks out there who perhaps don't give on any level and so don't realize how good it feels, just tremendously good to give a part of yourself away Did you know it wasn't like a hotline sending out waves of this and that Everything you do, everything you say is going out somewhere and never coming back So don't go thinking that you don't leave a trace, your prince in the sand and your vibes in space As long as you leave it something to the race, you might as well make it love Might as well make it love so (Make it a song, make it a smile, make it a smile) (Make it a song, make it a smile) (Make it a song, make it a smile) (Make it a song, make it a smile) Might as well make it love Did you know there's power in your thinking, what you dream is what will be So think it over before you choose, make it a blessing for you and me And don't go thinking that you don't leave a trace, your prince in the sand and your vibes in space As long as you leave it something to the race, you might as well make it love Might as well make it love so (Make it a song, make it a smile) (Make it a song, make it a smile) (Make it a heart, make it a prayer to the Lord of love) (Make it a heart, make it a prayer to the Lord of love) (Make it a heart, make it a prayer to the Lord of love) (Make it a heart, make it a prayer to the Lord of love) There was something I meant to ask you before and I'll ask you now You said you prayed and you prayed and you prayed in working up to this decision A lot of people when they pray, they do all the talking Did you actually receive a response? Did you feel like you got an answer in some way? Early on in my research particularly at the point at which I realized that intellectually Donated and Kidney was the right thing to do I started to pray to make the right decision I realized that the right decision, all of the signals I was getting from God or from research or a combination of the two The signal said, "Yes, this is the right thing to do" And once I made that decision, went through the physical, went through the psychological exam Was accepted into the transplant program Then my fear was, "Oh my God, I have to do this because I've gotten this far" And at that point, I prayed just to be able to make the leap of faith It was a difficult time, I was also afraid to talk about it with anyone Because I was afraid if I verbalized that, the folks closest to me would say, "Okay, well there's a sign, don't do it" And I didn't want to not do it, I just wanted to work through the fear And working through the fear was really empowering and it made me very positive about the surgery And that was probably about three weeks before the surgery Before I started to tell any family members or coworkers And so it allowed me time to process the questions that I had Which allowed me to then better face the questions that people around me had One of the things I didn't mention is that I didn't have to explain my decision To the people I told because the wonders of email I sent out an email explaining how I came to my decision And really, it was reading about people on a website called matchingdonors.com Who were posting just horrific heartfelt messages about trying to get a kidney either for themselves Or for a family member, and it was reading those messages that really lured me in And made me believe, "Yes, this is something that you should do and that you are meant to do" It was also at that point reading those messages that I realized I couldn't find my own recipient That I would have to go through a transplant center and say, "Give my kidney to the next person on the list" Because I realized that I could not choose who lived and who died It just wasn't anything that any part of my personality could ever choose So I think that was important and just simply sharing those taglines with people I knew people I suspected would read those taglines and would understand that a person has to respond to them Do you know offhand some of those taglines, some of those messages that were so motivational for you? The taglines from ads that were most poignant to me and really most powerful Let's meet on this side of heaven, life desired age 23, baby needs healthy kidney It was after reading about the baby who needs a healthy kidney that I realized I couldn't read the ads So I only read the titles of the ads or the headlines if you will And so I would only read the ads for people who had a blood type different than mine So I knew that I couldn't donate to them even if I wanted to Here are some others that really pulled me in Looking for kidney angel, got kidney, wanted, one used kidney My family needs me, please help me Where was it you were looking at these messages and if people are interested in finding out more about donation Where should they be looking on the internet? Matchingdonors.com is a good one to look at If you're in a position where you think that you want to donate to a person by answering an ad Another good resource is the National Kidney Foundation which you can find at kidney.org Is that org as in organ or as in organization? I think both. Another good resource would be University of Minnesota Medical Center at Fairview Which is one of the few transplant centers in the United States that accepts non-directed or good Samaritan donors Another thing that I meant to ask you You mentioned that one of the aha moments along the way was Indiana Jones in his sleep of faith I think that one of the side effects of having donated to kidney and meaning that you only have one You're just a little bit more vulnerable and there's some professions you can't go into Had you aspired to follow in Indiana Jones' footsteps and now you probably can't because you're vulnerable that way I just want the whip and the hat, that's all I want I don't need to do any of the archaeological digs When I went through the psychological exam they told me that I probably couldn't bungee jump or jump out of airplanes Or get into kickboxing and that was okay I think they do a lot of things during the psych eval to dissuade you from donating to kidney And doing those three things really didn't dissuade me Well Patti, I think that UW Eau Claire is immensely fortunate to have your shining spirit there It's really inspirational to see someone who not because anybody else's machinery Pulled them in the direction of doing it But just out of the good of their own heart and their openness to the rest of creation Which is out to make this kind of change in the world And I do hope that you inspire other people to take the same look at themselves And see if there's some way that they can give themselves to help the world Thank you, I hope so too I hope that we get the word out [Music] Sometimes in my life we all have pain We all have sorrow But if we are wise we know that there's always tomorrow Lean on me when you're not strong And I'll be your friend I'll help you carry on for It won't be long 'til I'm gonna need Somebody to lean on Please swallow your pride If I have faith You need to borrow for No one can feel Don't love your need Then you won't let show You just call only brother when you need a hand We all need somebody to lean on I just might have a problem that you understand We all need somebody to lean on Lean on me When you're not strong And I'll be your friend I'll help you carry on for It won't be long 'til I'm gonna need Somebody to lean on You just call only brother when you need a hand We all need somebody to lean on I just might have a problem that you understand We all need somebody to lean on If there is a load You have to bear That you can't carry I'm right up the road I'll show you a load If you just call me Call me if you need a friend Call me if you need a friend Call me if you need a friend Call me if you need a friend Call me if you need a friend You've been listening to an interview with Patty C, a Good Samaritan kidney donor. You can listen to this and other programs via my website northernspiritradio.org Where you can also see additional information about the programs. Music featured in this program included Magic Penny, sung by Daniel River Everything we need by Carol Johnson One person at a time by Andy Murray Might as well make it Love by Carol Johnson And Lean on Me by Bill Withers The theme music for Spirit in Action is "I Have No Hands But Yours" by Carol Johnson Thank you for listening I welcome your comments and stories of those leading lives of spiritual fruit You can email me at helpsmeat@usa.net May you find deep roots to support you and grow steadily toward the light This is Spirit in Action I have no higher calls for you than this To love and serve your neighbor Enjoying selflessness To love and serve your neighbor Enjoying selflessness To love and serve your neighbor Music